Mixed Martial Messages
What kind of violence is acceptable?

For roughly half a decade, a small contingent of criminal justice reformers has beseeched Americans to divert some of our attention from opposition to the drug war to mercy for violent offenders.
"We can't get from where we are to where we need to be just by releasing the innocent and harmless," the late criminologist Mark Kleiman wrote in 2015. "More than half of today's prisoners are serving time for violent offenses, and even those now in prison for nonviolent crimes often have violent histories. Solving mass incarceration requires releasing some seriously guilty and dangerous people. The problem is how to do that while also protecting public safety by turning ex-criminals into productive, free citizens." The Fordham law professor John Pfaff made a similar argument in 2017's Locked In (Basic Books), which rejected what Pfaff calls the "standard story" blaming the drug war for mass incarceration.
The latest contribution to this genre is David Alan Sklansky's A Pattern of Violence. A former prosecutor, Sklansky argues that "violent crime" is a fluid and relatively recent legal construct. "We take it for granted that violent crimes are the serious crimes, the ones that deserve stiffer sentences," he writes. In an era when no one seems able to agree on anything, many Americans and nearly all of our political elites agree that violent offenders should be "remove[d]…from our midst," as Vice President Kamala Harris put it when she was a district attorney in the early 2000s.
This consensus has various implications. One is the stark distinction between criminal law, where statutes categorize behaviors as either violent or nonviolent, and criminal procedure, where the "use of force" by police ranges from necessary to unnecessary. The book also covers violence by and against minors, violence in prisons, the law's evolving treatment of rape and domestic violence, and the ways America's deference to free speech, private gun ownership, and self-defense has undermined both left-wing and right-wing efforts to expand the legal definition of violence.
U.S. laws governing violence vary from place to place and era to era. They're influenced by race, class, social mores, and social upheaval, and as a result they're far from standard. There is, however, a tendency across jurisdictions to widen the concept of "violence" to include ever more offenses.
One other common thread identified in Sklansky's book—a reform-minded text that makes very few reform suggestions—is that the addition of new violent crimes to the criminal code is not always bad. In the 1970s and 1980s, many jurisdictions adopted statutory and procedural changes that recognized spousal rape and domestic violence as crimes, limited defense attorneys' ability to enter testimony about rape victims' consensual sex lives, and "weakened or abandoned" the requirement that prosecutors prove a rape victim "exhibited 'utmost resistance'" against her attacker. These reforms moved the legal focus from women's purity to the actions of their attackers. They also helped unwind sexual deviancy as an offense category, which benefitted gays and lesbians.
Of course, once the legal system accepted that raping and hitting women were violent crimes—rather than an unfortunate consequence of male lust or a private spousal matter—it became imperative for victims to prove that violence. Many women who have been victimized by men, especially in or adjacent to professional settings, cannot meet this standard. Criminal law can make quick work of a violent rapist, but it won't help you if you're hoping to prosecute less forceful transgressions, including most of the events brought to light by the #MeToo movement.
Should the law be brought to bear on those cases that involve violation but not violence? Since the 1980s, feminists have been divided on the question. Catharine MacKinnon wanted to legally define rape as "any physical invasion of a sexual nature under circumstances of threat or use of force, fraud, coercion, abduction or the abuse of power, trust, or a position of dependency or vulnerability." This definition, she believes, would criminalize not just violent sexual assault but also sex work and pornography. Other feminists, such as Marcia Pally, have argued that broadening the definition to enable censorship of pornography infantilizes women and mistakes the causes of sexual violence. The modern debate about sex work and porn continues to pit feminists who believe that prohibiting the sale of sex erodes female agency against feminists who believe that all sex work is violent because it debases the women who do it.
Though they predate her work, most of the laws banning prostitution in the U.S. essentially reflect MacKinnon's position. That has not exactly worked out in women's favor, considering that nearly every sex work bust that involves actual sex workers (rather than cops in disguise) results in charges against both the johns and their "victims."
Sklansky's book is rich with such paradoxes. If we consider violence to be so detrimental that it must have its own category of law, why do we allow so much violence in our correctional facilities? If we punish violence because it causes harm, why don't we punish harmful behaviors that don't leave a mark? Maybe it doesn't need spelling out, but Sklansky does so anyway: Human beings don't find all or even most violence objectionable. We like boxing and wrestling. We glorify soldiers. We send children to karate classes and let them play contact football. Some types of violence are seen as funny, as evidenced by the millions of people who have watched America's Funniest Home Videos for the last 30 years.
You don't have to be a libertarian to distinguish between consensual boxing and attacking someone against his will. But the creation of "violent crime" as a legal category—which did not happen at the federal level until 1984 with the Armed Career Criminal Act—was not so much about the absence of consent as the presence of violence. That is what makes these paradoxes so striking. We have always prosecuted (some of) the people who damaged the bodies and property of others. But only in the last few decades has violence itself become the point of emphasis.
Meanwhile, agents of the state can do things to other individuals that regular folks could never get away with. Cops are an obvious example but not the only one. Most states have enhanced penalties for adults who commit violence against minors—unless the adult is the minor's parent, in which case the violence must be especially grievous (or the parent poor, in which case another arm of the state can exercise powers that the criminal courts will not). Yet we cannot say that violence against a minor is only acceptable if committed by a parent, because it remains legal in 19 states for public school officials to assault wayward children. Education Department data from 2014 suggest that school administrators legally assault roughly 100,000 U.S. students each year. In 2016, researchers Elizabeth T. Gershoff and Sarah A. Font offered an even larger estimate, suggesting that administrators assault roughly 160,000 students annually.
I just referred to paddling (the most common form of standardized corporal punishment) as "assault," because that's what most people would call it if three adult men dragged a 14-year-old boy into a room, two of the men bent him over, and a third man beat the boy's buttocks with a flat heavy piece of wood so hard that the child later needed painkillers and laxatives to use the restroom. That is what happened to one of the plaintiffs in 1977's Ingraham v. Wright. But after the Supreme Court heard that case, brought by two black Miami-Dade junior high school students who sued their school district after administrators paddled them for tardiness, the Court's conservative majority ruled that students are not entitled to "notice and a hearing prior to the imposition of corporal punishment in the public schools, as that practice is authorized and limited by the common law,"* and that corporal punishment does not violate the Constitution's prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment. As is often the case, the Court is more permissive when it comes to state violence than with violence between private individuals.
Sklansky's book highlights a few efforts at making our justice system less nightmarish. For example, he writes approvingly of various diversion models that allow defendants to avoid prison and jail, though he notes with regret that they are largely unavailable to "violent" offenders. But A Pattern of Violence is not a policy treatise. The author has no grand solutions to share, just historical asymmetries and their consequences. His only call to action is that readers resist the temptation to think of violence as "an easily recognizable, objectively distinguishable, superlatively condemnable set of behaviors, engaged in by an easily recognizable, objectively distinguishable, superlatively condemnable category of people."
A Pattern of Violence: How the Law Classifies Crimes and What It Means for Justice, by David Alan Sklansky, The Belknap Press of Harvard University Press, 316 pages, $29.95
*Correction: The original version of this article misstated the majority opinion's finding on the 14th Amendment question raised in Ingraham v. Wright.
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"Solving mass incarceration requires releasing some seriously guilty and dangerous people."
Then maybe we shouldn't do that.
Release non-violent drug offenders and call it good.
agreed, but there's really not that many of those in prison
"agreed, but there’s really not that many of those in prison"
Just let me add that the drug prohibition itself generates other types of crime, and those crimes do get people locked-up. To what proportion?
"Those proportions turned out to be close to 30 percent for robbery, burglary, and larceny, in the neighborhood of 10 percent for prostitution, motor vehicle theft, and stolen goods offenses, and 2-5 percent for assaults of various kinds." *
So, ending the drug war could significantly effect overall crime rates, not just keep non-violent criminals out of court, and out of jail, but actually have an impact on violent crime.
*(https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants /246404.pdf#:~:text=If%20yes%2C%20the%20crime%20was%20considered%20to%20be,and%202-5%20percent%20for%20assaults%20of%20various%20kinds.
Sort of like when Prohibition ended, and drive-by shootings and gangland violence receded for several decades. Who would have thought.
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Reason’s “empty the prisons” sacred cow isn’t some new, revolutionary idea. It’s been tried before with violent criminals, and (thankfully) helped end the careers of some rather prominent politicians:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Horton
So a government that can’t find its ass with both hands is supposed to reform violent criminals. More old, stupid, failed ideas being branded as new.
You could probably safely release the violent offenders over 45, because men do generally age out of violence by 40. That trend holds true even with serial killers. But releasing a bunch of violent 25 year old's would be nuts.
men do generally age out of violence by 40.
I realize you used the escape word generally but Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown would like a word with you. I don't think the violence ages out, the physical superiority is lost.
The statistics are pretty cut and dry across all social strata and cultures, even if the factors as to why aren't yet understood.
Decriminalizing drugs for adults may also lessen the number of violent crimes in the same way that ending prohibition did for alcohol. It didn’t and won’t solve abuse issues or people using them in situations where they shouldn’t. But organized crime is no longer needed to maintain a supply chain of the product.
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Right. The horror with which totalitarians view any thought of decreasing the initiation of force causes these doublethink fallacies to projectile-spew forth by reflex. If "we" can't attack rights-respecters, then that "requires" that "we" release murdering terrorists. That's logic! says Tweedledee.
Just shoot them on a televised reality show, then bill their family for the bullet. If they can only afford a .22 short, so be it. Grind them up and feed them to swine. This plan is sustainable and will motivate the denizens of the ghetto to straighten up and fly right.
There is a certain level of hypocrisy in a government that treats violence as bad in and of itself, since government is simultaneously a group of people who assume legitimate use of violence within certain borders and seeks to grow their influence and engagement every day.
I do think it would be better if we focused more on consent. Democracy is held up as the foundation of civilization largely because it’s ostensibly an alternative to violent conflict. For that system to choose threats of violent punishments against peaceful people without their consent betrays that very purpose, but that’s what most laws are. The result: we fill society with systemic violence from our elite leadership, and then turn around and expect everyone to act like lambs, chastising them and punishing them harsher when they don’t. They learned it from watching you.
The answer to mass incarceration isn’t to just release drug offenders. The answer is to show actual respect to and reject violence against peaceful people. That means laws only directed at protecting people from violence, not systemically injecting it into all of society. It means as limited a government as possible.
Agree. The government saying and showing that shooting a peaceful protester (that was trespassing) in the head is ok sends a message.
In a satiric, inverting way, this is what The President's Analyst was about. The title character marveled at how his client's use of violence was not only excusable, but commendable, as an agent of the state, and wishes that solution were available to all his patients.
Like the Shrink in Alice's Restaurant?
Prison only makes sense as a place to lock up dangerous people. Violent offenders are dangerous, by definition.
If criminals committed non-violent crimes, they should be on closely monitored release, and forced to make restitution to the people they ripped off.
I don't think violent defenders are necessarily dangerous, so they aren't dangerous by definition. Their danger is subject to judgment on evidence like anything else. I could easily think of cases where someone might commit a violent offense and yet be at little danger of repeated violence.
But confinement does make sense only to keep the currently dangerous away from the rest of us.
The only way you will get that retribution is to send the criminal to a work camp.
"and the ways America's deference to free speech, private gun ownership, and self-defense has undermined both left-wing and right-wing efforts to expand the legal definition of violence."
So the US Constitution is a bad thing, because it keeps violent people away from peaceful people?
Yet another book on my 'don't bother' list.
It doesn't say that's a bad thing, just states that it undermines the efforts of the wings, which are not said to be a good thing.
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Ben Shapiro debates CRT on Real Time w Bill Maher:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwgsbZ1MsAE
Excellent
Go to prison
I'll never click a Buttplug link because I don't want my name on a FBI list somewhere, but does Maher actually argue in favor of CRT?
Maher is to tv what Michael Moore is to film. Take an interesting premise and apply a progressive sophomoric treatment to the delivery. Years ago, when Norm MacDonald derailed an episode with one statement, it was clear that Maher should stay in and cater to the shallow end.
And yes, never click on a link provided by Jared's Buttplug.
I want a link to Norm MacDonald doing that!
No, he does not. Shapiro does an excellent job accurately define both what CRT is and what the real objection is to its application at the grade school level (i.e. an overt focus on racial identity and racial oppression as the root reason for the systems in society (i.e. systemic racism)). Maher pretty much backs him up. Nance was simply deflecting, erecting strawmen, or throwing insults.
Yes, this segment on CRT was easily Shapiro's best moment and Maher backed him up.
But Maher added the needed nuance. That is that historical racism should not be whitewashed away - something Shapiro never suggested I might add.
Fuck off you race-baiting ghoul.
The last thing the world needs is certain selected sins (performed by absolutely nobody alive today to absolutely nobody alive today), consistently picked at until they become gaping wounds of hate and self-pity.
Only race hustlers who have something to gain by fomenting hatreds, would propose what you just said.
I find you viler and viler each day, Buttplug.
I agree with Shapiro and you attack me again. That is typical of you Trump cultists.
You hate FA Hayek and Ayn Rand too. They would never join your MAGA cult.
Anti-pedo cultists hate you.
Lol, that's not what I said at all. I said you're a race-baiting fomenter, who is using past injustice as an excuse to indulge your garbage nature.
CRT doesn't go beyond grade school level. Are you at the college level? I attended Chicago Public Schools during busing, do I get a Masters? I had to attend CRT to classes for 20 years. It is the most childish bullshit that I have ever heard. We tore up the instructor every single year with simple counters. They didn't train their instructors (all black) on how to counter, they just figured that they would dictate this nonsense and we would listen to it. We had more than one lose his temper and stomp out.
Most of the debate centers on how CRT is defined.
Maher opposes CRT as defined by you QAnon morons but quickly adds that history should be taught if full and not whitewashed as some of your fellow conservatives wish to.
Shapiro does very well in this segment but got his ass handed to him in the segment about his book on authoritarianism since Trump and his cult are the ultimate authoritarians (in the US that is).
Yeah, that damned Trumpian authoritarianism, not letting progressives impose the rules they wish for in a quest for social control.
Nothing says Strongman Dictator like Trump's "I am going to have the election results declared invalid and ignore the laws of the Republic in doing so" then claim the free press is "the enemy of the people" when they publish my actions.
Nobody hires 100 lawyers to hide a legitimate election victory.
Nobody has the DOJ interfere in a state ordered audit because they won fair and square.
You should be in prison Jared’s Buttplug.
I keep hearing that I really don’t know what CRT is, but when I hear what it is, I still hate it.
“Don’t whitewash history” isn’t Critical Race Theory. It’s Objective History Theory.
I never felt like Trump was interfering with my life. I never read the mean tweets, I don't care. But this administration? They are trying to interfere with my life. What has this administration done for the white, middle class taxpayer? Nothing.
OK, this time I'm not sure if this is Real Buttplug or Impostor Buttplug. The word "excellent" is used ambiguously.
If by "excellent" he's expressing agreement with Shapiro, it's clearly the Impostor. Because Real Buttplug frequently (and correctly) points out that conservatives are racists, so RB would never be dumb enough to agree with conservatives on any race-related issue — CRT, affirmative action, problematic sports team names, etc.
On the topic of team names, is "Pussies" on the approved list now?
One can be a racist and and simultaneously clearly define CRT.
Actually this would be true of some on the far right and far left.
One must be racist to support CRT.
But its "good" racism.
CRT is the good kind of racism.
Bingo. It is pure racism. If it continues, genocide will ensue, sooner or later.
"Solving mass incarceration requires releasing some seriously guilty and dangerous people."
That's a ludicrous statement. They were sentenced and should serve out their time.
Or we will end up like Mexico ruled by cartels and federales.
"Solving mass incarceration requires releasing some seriously guilty and dangerous people. The problem is how to do that while also protecting public safety by turning ex-criminals into productive, free citizens."
----Mike Riggs
The real problem should be maximizing liberty and justice, and if maximizing both requires incarcerating a lot of people, then we should incarcerate lots of people. The legitimate purpose of government is to protect our rights, and that means protecting our rights from violent criminals.
The idea that the rights of crime victims should be protected by the government regardless of the victim's ability to finance the prosecution is also relatively new. Public prosecutors seem to have emerged around the same time as people started to seriously think about the existence of every individual's rights.
That seems to be the general pattern: first people start thinking about things differently and then the law changes. The idea that the victims of rape couldn't get justice unless they could afford to hire a prosecutor became completely unacceptable, and then public prosecutors emerged with laws justify them.
This article makes reference to a similar transformation. Yes, as recently as the 1970s, people still had arguments about whether it should be legally possible to rape your wife. The resulting changes in law didn't reflect a new violent crime, however. It's just that juries and the public became willing to convict different people for the same old crime of rape when they weren't willing to convict those people for that crime before.
It's the change in people's minds that are the driving force behind this. If juries weren't willing to convict men for sexually abusing their wives, changing the law wouldn't have done anything. Never forget which one is the cart and which one is the horse. Putting the cart before the horse can and does have a devastating impact on our liberty.
You will not change the incarceration rate by eliminating violent crimes from the law if the the American people aren't already on board with those changes. All you'll do is provoke a public backlash against crime and create public support for getting tough on crime. How many times have we seen this happen? Remember why Dirty Harry, Mad Max, and Escape from New York resonated with American audiences?
Remember when Daryl Gates and Giuliani were wildly popular because they were so tough on crime? Remember when Michael Dukakis lost to George W, Bush Sr. because of Willie Horton? Remember when Bill Clinton executed a functionally retarded man just to prove that he was tough on crime? All of those things are evidence of what happens when the laws and penalties for violent crime become more permissive than the general public supports.
Elitists inflicting unpopular changes in law on the general public is the source of the problem of mass incarceration much more than it's a solution.
This is what happens when elitist progressives get out ahead of the voters on mass incarceration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdJ97qWHOxo
Three strikes, the drug war, the militarization of the police, etc., etc.--all of this should be considered in the context of a backlash against "liberal" policies on violent crime being inflicted on the American people by elitists. It got so bad, that individual Democrats started complaining that Republicans were smearing them by calling them "liberal". That's when they started calling themselves things like "progressive" instead.
Right now we have a Democratic President and Vice President who were (still are?) major drug warriors — were they part of your purported backlash against liberals?
No, they were not. “Tough on crime” has been a bipartisan stance all along.
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Right now we have a Democratic President and Vice President who were (still are?) major drug warriors — were they part of your purported backlash against liberals?
Yes. Absolutely.
But Ron Klain is the junta's acting president, and those two finger puppets are irrelevant when it comes to actual policy.
You won't find much original content on the internet from before 1994 or so. Netscape went public in 1995, and circa 1998, most Americans with internet service still thought that AOL's website comprised the entirety of the internet. That being said, this was atypical complaint:
"Liberal Has Become a Dirty Word to Smear Those Who Seek Rights"
----Sun Sentinel, November 1, 1998
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-1998-11-21-9811200800-story.html
The "l-word" became so tainted by association with being soft on crime, that Democrats started calling themselves progressive. I still bemoan the practical extinction of the honest liberal, but it was mostly a matter of self-annihilation trough elitism. They got so far out ahead of the American people by inflicting unpopular policies on the unwilling that they provoked a popular backlash against themselves. I'm not even saying their policies were necessarily wrong. It was their contempt for the opinions of average Americans that did them in.
I just remembered a great example of honest liberals destroying themselves with elitism. Anybody else remember Rose Bird?
She was the first Chief Justice of the California Supreme Court to lose a retention election, and she lost for inflicting her elitist opinion on the people of California rather than respecting the law.
"In 1985, Bird said in interviews that opposition to her rulings was based on sexism, bigotry, and right-wing ideology led by U.S. Attorney General Edwin Meese. She said, "These are bully boys. Meese is trying it on the Supreme Court." Many Democrats later conceded that the remarks backfired on her and other members of the court appointed by Governor Brown. Her rulings and public statements led Bird's critics to claim that she was substituting her own personal opinions and ideas for the law.
The anti-Bird campaign ran television commercials featuring the surviving families of murder victims, whose murderers' sentences Bird and her fellow justices Cruz Reynoso, Joseph Grodin, and Allen Broussard had voted to reverse. In addition to Bird, Reynoso and Grodin were also voted off the seven-justice California state supreme court bench.
Bird was removed in the November 4, 1986 election by a margin of 67% to 33%.
Justice Stanley Mosk, who often joined Bird, Reynoso, and Grodin, was not challenged. Twelve years later, Mosk explained why he was able to stay and Bird was not:
"Rose Bird was pilloried because she generally voted to find some defect in death penalty convictions and to reverse them. I probably don't like the death penalty any more than she does. As a matter of fact, I think the death penalty is wrong, that a person has no right to kill, and the state has no right to kill. But the difference is that I took an oath to support the law as it is and not as I might prefer it to be, and therefore, I've written my share of opinions upholding capital judgments.
----Rose Bird
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Bird#1986_removal
I don't know whether California's three strikes law (Proposition 184) would have survived the Bird court's scrutiny, but if she and her liberal fellow justices weren't on the court to hear that case because of their elitism, that's the point.
Incidentally, the first person to die in California as a result of capital punishment wasn't until six years after Bird was removed from the court, and there have only been a handful executed in California since then. Every life is sacred, but the impact of California's three strikes law was devastating to criminals, inmates, and the police--a lot more than five people.
The police had to go arrest people for small crimes--people who knew they already had two strikes and were never getting out if they were successfully arrested. Why would a California cop draw a gun to make an arrest for a petty crime? How 'bout because they don't know if the perp has two strikes?
No, Rose Bird isn't solely responsible for Daryl Gates, California's problems with overcrowding, etc., but to the extent that the tough on crime backlash was a reaction to her inflicting herself on California's unwilling voters and the law, yeah, she's responsible for that. And, yes, three strikes was a reaction to liberal judges and parole boards releasing violent criminals over the objections of the voters. If we can't trust liberal judges and parole boards to keep them locked up, then we'll just make the third sentence permanent incarceration.
I college, I was one of those who voted Rose Bird out.
I don't like the death penalty. I like the idea of murderers walking free even less. If we could somehow guarantee that life without parole meant life without parole and that judges wouldn't decide that we could not impose that sentence I would be in favor of doing away with the death penalty. But as soon as the death penalty is eliminated the people who fight it now would go after life without parole. I'd rather they spent their efforts fighting against the death penalty.
Liberals becoming ill-liberal on free speech and personal freedom didn't help their cause either. Progressive is a much better label, even if what they want is really regression (to the Stone Age or earlier) rather than Progress.
Things can get progressively worse.
Metastasis is progress from the cancer’s perspective. Could we work up a new moniker for them based on that?
And now we have places like Portland where a progressive governing body is apprehensive to address the violent crime that resulted from less policing. And violent crime including murder has risen!
And we shouldn't imagine that the backlash against violent crime won't happen in the future, in places like Portland, because people are against racism today. Some of the most draconian anti-crime reactions in the 1970s and 1980s emerged in liberal places like Los Angeles (Daryl Gates) and New York City (Giuliani)--in the wake of the civil rights era.
Being sure that they're not racist can make voters more likely to support a police crackdown. When the backlash comes to Portland, it may be more because they don't consider themselves racist rather than because of their racism. They aren't against licking the anti-violent crime boot per se--so long as the boot is anti-racist.
In fact, much of the drug war, the militarization of the police, broken windows "stop and frisk", etc. was sold in terms of concern for the problems of urban African-Americans. White suburban women supported inner-city crackdowns because they didn't want marijuana and cocaine coming to their kids in the suburbs, but they also genuinely believed that these tactics were saving the African-American community from the scourge of drugs, gangs, and violent crime.
I was once called a racist on this website by neocons for questioning whether the Iraqis really wanted us to bomb, invade, and occupy their country, and there were plenty of elitist liberals in the 1980s who genuinely believed it was racist to deny the African-American community the benefits of the LAPD's army of liberation.
The drug war came to be seen as a racist tool on the left, but that change didn't come around until Barack Obama's second term. No, suburban moms probably won't rationalize the backlash against violent crime with the scourge of drugs next time, but we shouldn't forget that racism wasn't the justification for the last backlash against violent crime in places like Los Angeles and New York back then--even if the racist consequences should have been obvious.
The tough on crime policies of Giuliani and others were an improvement for many minority citizens living in the worst neighborhoods. The fact that many of the criminals they cracked down on were minorities doesn't make the policies racist.
Yeah. I was talking about the support for police crackdowns that come from swing voters--like suburban women. They were wrong to think the African-American community in central LA would benefit from the attention of Daryl Gates, and they're wrong now to try to save black people from legitimately good law enforcement, too. The disconnect between what actual black people want and what white liberals assume they want can be huge.
I doubt colleges assign Heart of Darkness to read against Achebe in general ed lit classes anymore, but Conrad was basically excoriating the abolitionist white liberal women of his day for stupidly supporting British imperialism for abolitionist reasons--when what the abolitionists were doing to eliminate slavery at its source in Africa was giving slavery itself a run for its money in terms of "the horror".
Things Fall Apart is an African looking back at Conrad and saying, "Who are you to tell us that British imperialism didn't do us any good, white boy?" God save us all from the good intentions of bored and wealthy people, who, with too few problems of their own to think about, decide to solve ours for us. And God save us from those who would protect us from the help we really want, too.
It's hard to do good in the world through the elitist infliction of policy on the unwilling and not be contemptuous of the people you're "helping", too. Progressives can't BOTH know what's good for other people, better than other people know for themselves--to the extent that they're willing to use the coercive power of government to force them to do it--AND care about what other people really want.
And that's why it's so hilarious when progressives, despite having the best of intentions, always end up exposing themselves as America's most horrible people. People know what's better for themselves than progressives do, and no, the results of forcing other people to do what you want--instead of what they want--will not be different this time. Their elitism destroys with the coercive power of government, and their good intentions don't count for shit.
"Things Fall Apart"
Good book. Read that about thirty years ago.
Perhaps we should expect that a society more dedicated to individual liberty (and autonomy), but with defined limits to acceptable behavior, will end up with more people in prison. If by law and habit we expect people to control themselves, then those that fail must be punished.
The alternative is either more active "management" of behavior, so people have less opportunity and inclination to misbehave, or fewer restrictions on behavior that harms others, so no need (or punishment) for transgressors.
America is a violent society. Our foreign policy, four years of Trump mostly notwithstanding, is centered on the use of force when we do not get our way. We package it usually as “they are a threat to us” or “that was a bad man.” Not surprisingly, the people see this and mimic. The BLM/Antifa riots of 2020 exemplify this. Destruction of property. Assault and battery. Murder.
The continued shift away from personal responsibility doesn’t help.
When you choose the behavior you choose the consequences.
Decoupling personal liberty from personal responsibility is a core problem. I can't imagine a functional and lasting society where everyone feels entitled to act like a 3 year old or divine monarch.
A free society that doesn't incarcerate so many people probably requires having a less generous welfare system. People need to suffer the negative consequences of making poor decisions, and choosing to have children you can't raise properly is a terrible decision. If there's a positive correlation between irresponsible parents and impulsively violent children, I wouldn't be surprised.
Some violent crime is probably alleviated by a growing capitalist economy that provides myriad opportunities for people to live relatively affluent lives regardless of education level, and if we stopped squandering resources on government largess, no doubt, more people would see armed robbery as a really stupid thing to do from a risk/reward perspective. What about other violent crimes?
How does rape correlate to socialist welfare systems or career opportunities? If there's any relationship there at all, it's probably indirect. Rich frat boys may be as likely to rape as inner-city kids with few or no opportunities. Along the lines of what you're saying, some of this is attributable to the downsides of living in a free society--people have more opportunities to commit crimes than they do in an authoritarian society.
My grandfather's brother was a scholar of the Chinese language and culture, and he was traveling in Mao's China at one point. He left a tip on the desk in his hotel room for the maid as he left, like he always did, and as he was walking down the street, she chased him down to return the tip. She was scared to death of being accused of stealing his money. I gather they didn't have much crime in Mao's China, but I suspect the Chinese people prefer more freedom and prosperity to less crime.
Maoist China probably had much less citizen on citizen crime. Regarding government on citizen, the Great Leap Forward’s starvations would take a millennia of US gun deaths to equal.
The best thing we could do to discourage robbery is something we've already mostly accomplished: greatly lessening the use of cash. That's why the proportion of crime that arises from sheer cussedness has risen.
In some Asian countries, leaving a tip is seen as an insult, since they are proud to do their duty for the pay they are receiving, and you are their guest.
Also, stories like that were common among the “Pilitical Pilgrims” who toured Nao’s paradise. People like Harrison Salisbury and Shirley MacLaine would gush about leaving a dirty sock behind in one Potemkin Village hostel only to have it follow them clear across China to show up freshly laundered and folded at another Potemkin Village must-see shrine.
Usually I look to Ken Shultz for great insights, but...
...in this case I finally get to say, "Well, duh!" as he points out the obvious. What else could it be, climate change? Precession of the equinoxes? Rock and roll?
It should be obvious but it isn't.
Elitism is all about the absurd notion of inflicting changes on people's minds by changing the law.
"It’s the change in people’s minds that are the driving force behind this. If juries weren’t willing to convict men for sexually abusing their wives, changing the law wouldn’t have done anything. Never forget which one is the cart and which one is the horse. Putting the cart before the horse can and does have a devastating impact on our liberty.
You will not change the incarceration rate by eliminating violent crimes from the law if the the American people aren’t already on board with those changes.
----Ken Shultz
The article describes changing the definition of violent crime in the law as if that were a real solution to the problem.
It is not.
Progressive elitism is about using the coercive power of the law to inflict solutions on unwilling Americans, and that is not a real solution to any problem--as I think I've adequately documented in this thread. It simply makes a backlash against those laws practically inevitable.
P.S. Segregation didn't disappear because the CRA was passed in 1964. MLK changed people's minds, and the law soon followed.
Along those lines, when prosecutors and laws changed the way they treated men who raped their wives, it was a reaction to the way juries and the American people changed their views about the rights of married women.
Obama raided medical marijuana dispensaries in California hundreds of times during his first term. That didn't change because the law changed. The law in California changed because the people of California changed their minds.
Nothing any state legislature or court did on the subject of gay marriage was anywhere near as influential as what David Bowie, Freddie Mercury, and Boy George did.
Some people think substantive change comes from government and the law. Those people are elitist, authoritarian, progressive, and wrong. And while I agree that substantive social change happening from the grass roots up rather than from the top down should be obvious, it's also quite controversial.
I bet there are delusional Libertarians in this very thread who think we can change society from the top down by winning elections and changing the law. I promise you, the find these statements controversial.
Well as a wise man pointed out some decades ago...
Some contend that Rock and Roll Is bad for the the body and bad for the soul
Bad for the heart, bad for the mind,
Bad for the deaf, and bad for the blind
Makes some men crazy and then they act like fools
Makes some men crazy, and then they start to drool
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sns9kKLRQv4&ab_channel=NickBloomfield
the late criminologist Mark Kleiman wrote in 2015. “Solving mass incarceration requires releasing some seriously guilty and dangerous people. The problem is how to do that while also protecting public safety by turning ex-criminals into productive, free citizens.”
—-Mike Riggs
For the record, Riggs didn't say that. As per the missing context, he was quoting Mark Kleiman.
My mistake.
I shouldn't have attributed it to anyone. I was really just trying to speak to the point.
Thank you for the correction.
This, of course, assumes that "mass incarceration" is a genuine problem that needs solving.
It is absolutely true that the US imprisons vastly more people per capita than other developed countries. However, the US also has vastly more homicides per capita than other developed countries. Indeed, if you run the numbers, you'll discover that the US number of prisoners per homicide is absolutely typical of developed countries.
Since homicide is the single crime best suited for international comparisons (in developed countries, you don't have to worry much about definitions, under-reporting, or whether it should be a crime, or many of the other messes that happen when trying to do international comparisons of crime rates), it is quite possibly the best proxy for the overall rate of genuine crime.
In which case, the conclusion is that insofar as the US over-incarcerates, it only does so to the same degree that other developed countries do so.
"The modern debate about sex work and porn continues to pit feminists who believe that prohibiting the sale of sex erodes female agency against feminists who believe that all sex work is violent because it debases the women who do it."
By this logic, anyone who works in a job they feel is beneath them is a victim, right?
A high-paid sex worker still performs entry position duties.
Lol
I definitely feel victimized on Mondays.
You should seek reparations.
Bob Geldof agrees.
Agreed
Target Cryptocurrency
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/08/06/anthony-fauci-covid-vaccine-mandates-fda-full-approval/5513121001/
"As soon as the Food and Drug Administration issues a full approval for a COVID-19 vaccine, there will be "a flood" of vaccine mandates at businesses and schools across the nation, Dr. Anthony Fauci told USA TODAY's editorial board on Friday."
“As soon as the Food and Drug Administration issues a full approval for a COVID-19 vaccine, there will be “a flood” of vaccine mandates at businesses and schools across the nation, Dr. Anthony Fauci told USA TODAY’s editorial board on Friday.”
This might be one time when Fauci is actually right about something.
Touche
While he's attacked online and in conservative media every day, Fauci said he worries less about himself than for the nation as a whole.
"This is a dystopian world we're living in," he said. The public is awash in lies and misinformation about COVID-19 and the vaccines, "they are being misled."
He's right about the dystopian world thing as well. But of course he would know. He's one of the architects that designed it.
White house is threatening federal contracts from businesses that don't mandate vaccines
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/rick-moran/2021/08/06/white-house-mulls-withholding-federal-funds-from-companies-that-dont-force-employees-to-get-vaccinated-n1467582
Yet the pedo above is still saying trump was the fascist.
Reason was just as bad. Everyone knew that the Democrats were antithetical to anything libertarian outside of bumsex. Everyone knew that they had a list of downright authoritarian and occasionally fascist proposals.
But mean tweets were just so unconscionable, and the proles so déclassé and boorish, that they overtly rooted for the party of Cuthulu.
Cthulhu 2024 - the greater of two evils
Don't settle for less(er)!
A number of gender reassignment therapies have full approval. That should also be mandatory for everyone.
Wonder if those businesses and schools will be on the hook for adverse effects?
Xanax is approved. I support mandatory Xanax passports. People need to chill out.
It would probably reduce violent crime, in a Brave New World sort of way.
https://twitter.com/ConceptualJames/status/1424017117171658755?s=19
Irresponsible rhetoric multiplies like gremlins in a swimming pool. [Pic advocating executing all unvaxed]
But remember everyone: if you bring up the holocaust and wanting to avoid going down a similar path, it's totes antisemitism (according to echospinner)
If you're anti Federal bureaucracy you're committing blood libel according to DoL
That's the logical end of JFree's eliminationist rhetoric.
Arbeit Macht Jfrei
Gee: I wonder why people are violent. Oh, look: progressive fascists.
It was entertaining to watch Shapiro take down that execrable fool on Maher's show. The leftie is such a bald faced liar and fraud. Well that's just true of everyone on the left and in the democrat party. But claiming 40K people stormed the capitol to take selfies. What a maroon. But that is the left these days, full of shit and will to fling it around. Someday we'll remove them from power, in government, corporations and the media. But it's a long haul.
Is a large part of the rationale behind their attempt at co-opting the 'big lie' label, 'they' are such prolific spreaders of total bullshit. The tactic of accusing their opponent of doing what they do most often is well established.
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/swedish-professor-says-5-shots-covid-vaccine-may-be-necessary
Numerous European countries are planning a 3rd round of COVID “booster shots” in September, and the FDA also indicated that vaccinated individuals will be given another shot in the fall.
However, Sällberg suggests this probably won’t be enough and that “recurring shots” will be necessary.
“After receiving the second dose, the immune response slowly subsides. Within a year, many may have lost their protection. We do not know yet, but if you get a third dose, it will be activated again,” he said.
“Biology says that a fading immune response is not unlikely. Then it’s time for a third, fourth, maybe fifth dose”.
One wonders whether Sällberg holds a conflict of interest given that he is also chairman of the board at vaccine company SVF.
Meanwhile, in Israel, a doctor warned that “the effectiveness of the vaccine is waning/fading out” and that “85-90% of the hospitalizations are in fully vaccinated people.”
"Meanwhile, in Israel, a doctor warned that “the effectiveness of the vaccine is waning/fading out” and that “85-90% of the hospitalizations are in fully vaccinated people."
Maybe they are using saline instead of vaccine?
Here in Oregon, in July, 81% of breakthrough cases were un-vaccinated individuals. And more than 90% of cases resulting in hospitalization or death were un-vaccinated individuals.
Also significant:
"To date, 7% of all vaccine breakthrough cases (n=301) have been hospitalized within two weeks of their positive test results and 1% have died (n=42). The majority of vaccine-breakthrough associated deaths have occurred in the elderly. The median age of the individuals who have died is 83 (range: 49—100 years)."
As it has been since day one, the infirm are hardest hit.
https://www.oregon.gov/oha/covid19/Documents/DataReports/Breakthrough-Report-08-2021.pdf
How can that be! The media and the leftists here are still repeating the 99% number from Jan when under 15% of the population was vaccinated!
"How can that be!"
Now, Jessie, everyone knows that Walenski couldn't possibly NOT be telling the truth, not POSSIBLY be distorting and misinterpreting the statistics. Given that, WHY would the media question it?
I have had undergraduate students who were better at questioning authority than most of the press. Of course, "questioning authority" was the latent purpose of my curriculum.
In LA, where 60-70% are vaccinated, 99% of those now hospitalized were unvaccinated.
How much of the fading effectiveness is the person's fading immune response, and how much is the virus mutating to evade the immune response?
Lots of conjecture going around and I have yet to see any trial data.
Eeyore:
You might find the data below on infections from variants interesting. (Scroll down on the site)
https://www.oregon.gov/oha/covid19/Documents/DataReports/Breakthrough-Report-08-2021.pdf
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/biden-admin-ignoring-emotional-academic-and-psychological-effects-forcing-kids-wear-masks
On Friday, Biden spox Jen Psaki said that the administration is not taking into account the "emotional, academic, and psychological effects" of forcing school children to wear masks at school.
.
.
.
To which Doocy replied: "He [DeSantis] said that his concern is about harmful emotional, academic and psychological effects of putting kindergartners in masks for hours at a time. Is there any concern from officials that you guys talk to in your early pre-decisional discussions about that.
"No, there's not. And I'll tell you from personal experience, my rising kindergartner told me two days ago, she could wear a mask all day - and she's just happy to go to camp, and go to school."
"The mask mandates are especially cruel to young children. Adults are supposed to ease their fears, to reassure them that monsters aren’t hiding under the bed. Instead, we’re frightening them into believing they’re being stalked by invisible menaces lurking in the air. A year of mask-wearing will scar some of them psychologically—and maybe physically, too, according to a team of Italian professors of plastic surgery, who warn that the prolonged pressure from the elastic straps could leave young children with permanently protruding ears. By hiding teachers’ lips and muffling their speech, mask-wearing makes it harder for young children to develop linguistic skills and prevents children with hearing impairments from lip reading. Unable to rely on facial cues, teachers and students of all ages are more likely to misinterpret one other, a particularly acute problem for children on the autism spectrum. How are children supposed to develop social skills when they can’t see one another’s faces, sit together, or play together?
Researchers from the University of Witten/Herdecke in Germany have catalogued other problems. They established an online registry for parents to report on the side effects of mask-wearing. Among the nearly 18,000 parents who chose to respond (not a random sample, obviously), more than half reported that the masks were giving their children headaches and making it difficult for them to concentrate. More than one-third cited other side effects: increased reluctance to go to school, unhappiness, malaise, impaired learning, drowsiness, and fatigue. After considering those reports as well as testimony from other researchers, a court in Weimar, Germany, recently ruled in favor of a parent arguing that her children’s basic rights were being violated by the mandates for masks and social distancing at her children’s two schools. The court ordered the schools to end the mandates, declaring that they damaged the “mental, physical and spiritual well-being” of students while failing to offer “any discernible benefit for the children themselves or for third parties.”
Masks can be breeding grounds for infections from bacteria, mold and fungi, which is why the Centers for Disease Control recommends that a cloth mask should be washed with soap and water “whenever it gets dirty or at least daily.” The CDC also advises washing your hands any time you take off the mask, and then washing your hands again after you put it back on. Pretending that children (or adults, for that matter) are dutifully taking all these precautions is absurd, yet the CDC nonetheless recommends that everyone older than two should wear masks both indoors and outdoors."
"Pretending that children (or adults, for that matter) are dutifully taking all these precautions is absurd, yet the CDC nonetheless recommends that everyone older than two should wear masks both indoors and outdoors.”
Exactly what one expects from the CDC.
We now have 17 months of empirical data showing that mask mandates are completely ineffective at stopping the spread of COVID-19. The original CDC guidance was the best -- masks do little to stop the spread of vaccine particles that are too small to be stopped by the masks.
So why is anyone proposing a new round of mask mandates? They only give people a false sense of security to mix and mingle when they should be staying home if they are symptomatic at all.
We've got to do something.
Because in the middle ages during the bubonic plague, masks also didn’t work.
“Kids may have to wear masks for a little while longer! Oh the humanity!”
It’s just a mask. Toughen up snowflake!
Masks as symbols of toughness? That's a new spin.
No they aren’t. They’re pieces of cloth that cover your face. Claiming its child abuse to have kids wear them is ridiculous.
I don’t care if people wear them or not, but it’s not child abuse to have kids wear them in some situations.
They’re pieces of cloth that cover your
facebreathing passages.Fixed that for you Mormon Hitler.
Mormons are the Nazis.
I’m not comparing myself to WW2 vets, but I have more in common with them than Mormons.
Mormons are fascists.
*Allied WW2 vets
During WW2 your favorite great grandfather managed to kill 17 enemy soldiers before the British finally captured him.
No my grandfather fought in the pacific for the allies.
I see what ya did there Gumby, and I don’t like it one bit.
Nazis aren’t to be jokes about.
I thought that you might nazi (not see) what I did there.
After a couple looks I was confused, third Reich’s a charm.
If you got it the first time I’d say you have the reich stuff.
You have nothing in common with WW2 veterans, shitbird.
I said I had more in common with them than Mormons do.
That’s true because most Mormons are Nazis.
An article about violence in a supposed libertarian publication that doesn’t even mention The Non-Aggression Principle.
Mostly peaceful riots mostly comply with the NAP.
Or The Knights Who Say: "NIFF!" (Non-Initiation of Force and Fraud.)
We need to stop making non crimes into crimes.
We need justice reform to make the process less rigged against defendants.
As far as actually violent people? Separating them from the rest of society is what should happen.
"We can't get from where we are to where we need to be just by releasing the innocent and harmless,"
And where exactly does this bloke want to be, Gotham City?
San Francisco is getting bad enough just by releasing the shoplifters, car window smash-and-grabbers, and "non-violent" home invasion and burglary types.
San Francisco doesn't even follow up on petty crimes.
Violence against Mormons is acceptable.
What kind of violence, and why? Murder? Rape? Gas them and burn them in ovens?
Whatever gets rid of them before they destroy our country.
I’m non violent, but they’ll never stop. They’re too arrogant and stupid. So we have to defend ourselves.
Decided not to go with the VD sock today KARen?
Who’s VD?
Like Venereal disease?
When it comes to punishing transgressions of social and legal boundaries, what about exile?
I can speculate that in prehistoric times, clans doled out only two forms of punishment: death, either immediate or by confiscating critical food or other resources, or exile. Exile seems to be more appropriate for most crimes, especially violations of social values.
Yes, we are short on empty lands to receive our undesirables. Maybe more motivation for a Mars colony?
There’s still some empty desert land in Australia.
I think Canada could afford to donate the Northern Territory.
Getting them to Mars is too expensive.
Wait, turns out, once again, Trump was playing 4D chess when he tried to buy Greenland!
Remember when people warning of this were conspiracy theorists: "A wall of steel enforcing the COVID lockdown..."
"We'll be pulling over cars randomly and checking what their business is. [...] We'll be checking their identity, where they come from, what their business is."
"This will obviously decrease chances for the virus to spread."
https://twitter.com/Lauren_Southern/status/1424171579664125957?s=19
Just found out my Canadian and American friends don't have to download QR tracking apps and check in at every shop you enter or be rejected by COVID marshalls overseeing the entrances. Do y'all know what's going on in Australia?
"48 passengers walked off a flight without screening".
Headline: Airport Breach.
"Compulsory hotel lockdown at their own expense"
"New South Wales PM considers [I shit you not] moving the border north (~120 km) to avoid any chance of a second wave."
"We've currently got the Air Force, the Navy, the Army, and there'll be a mixture of both, part time and full time."
Journalist follow up question: How does that make you feel to see everyone from across the board in the defense force pitching at a time when we need it.
Fuck journalism. Fuck it in the ear.
Whatever a Democrat claims is a conspiracy theory, inevitably turns out to have been a spoiler.
I know it's Aussieland, but the principle holds.
It absolutely holds because they're a Western Nation with which we share a lot of cultural values.
Lol!
'Australia's Covid measures prove America's are bad because they speak English and we all like Paul Hogan! Also, Canada's bi-lingual requirements prove American multi-cultralists are bad because we both love Rush and have the common law!'
No. It means the cancerous Davos elites running Australia, are as poisonous to their country as the cancerous Davos elites running America.
There is, however, a tendency across jurisdictions to widen the concept of "violence" to include ever more offenses.
Silence is violence, for example.
Many women who have been victimized by men, especially in or adjacent to professional settings, cannot meet this standard. Criminal law can make quick work of a violent rapist, but it won't help you if you're hoping to prosecute less forceful transgressions, including most of the events brought to light by the #MeToo movement.
It's too bad our legal system is so rigorous about things like evidence. Maybe we could move to a less rigorous system, where things like emotional appeal can drive the narrative.
Lol, yeah, what if emotional appeal started (so suddenly) to be a thing in our legal system?
Our system is *drenched* in emotional appeals. For the vast majority of our history women were excluded from being a meaningful part of it (as lawyers, jurists, etc.,), it was a men's game. And it operated on emotional appeals to those men (look at defenses to rape like that victims had to prove their resistance to the utmost, or their prior chastity, etc.,).
More importantly, for the vast majority of our history stereotypes about women and men, especially, but not limited to, their sexuality, have been enforced by government interference. These attitudes didn't just magically disappear when, in the 1970's (around the *bicentennial*!) SCOTUS started to undermine their de jure status. They of course live on in the minds of many cops, prosecutors, judges, juries, etc.,
And it operated on emotional appeals to those men... rape like that victims had to prove their resistance to the utmost, or their prior chastity, etc
I see your grasp on legal history is as tenuous as your grip on logic. Amalthea Mike is what happens when you get your history degree from the University of Huffpo, and screeds on Jezebel.
It made sense to have a requirement that resistance be on evidence. People have the widespread experience of sexual intercourse as having been pleasurable and therefore desirable. So why not have the default assumption that sexual intercourse was desired? Depending on how likely we think sexual intercourse to be desired in general, is how strong evidence of the contrary in a particular case would need to be to rebut that presumption. And what would be such evidence?
If we don't have such a presumption, then we run into the current problem seen in date rape cases, and all sexual activity becomes fraught with pitfalls.
It's different from situations of non-sexual battery, because our experience is generally that we dislike being beaten. Therefore we can presume a lack of consent, since those are uncommon situations, like boxing matches or masochism.
These sorts of presumptions are built into good samaritan situations too.
But the creation of "violent crime" as a legal category—which did not happen at the federal level until 1984 with the Armed Career Criminal Act—was not so much about the absence of consent as the presence of violence.
Is there a point I'm missing here because this is where I'm tempted to say, "What in the name of fuck is this dude talking about?"
If only there were some way of dealing with this situation. Panel of experts weighs in, tens of thousands idled on a freeway.
One guy, without a shirt. One... shirtless guy. And officials literally don't know what to do about it.
You wanna know why the west is doomed? this is why. This region of the Unites States, you could argue is run by the most elite, progressive, forward thinking and compassionate people on the planet. That's why the West is Doomed. The people running this region are the future, they're on the Right Side of History.
Did the person who posted this post the comment two minutes later below?
Wow.
What's your point?
You're really not earning your fifty-cents today, Mike.
Meanwhile, agents of the state can do things to other individuals that regular folks could never get away with.
Welcome to 1374.
Sniffing other mens’s wives’ hair in public.
"agents of the state can do things to other individuals that regular folks could never get away with."
I've heard from some people that you don't have to be an agent of the state. If you're just a star you can grab 'em by the pussy.
Locker room talk =/ actual incidents. But you know that.
Progressive all-star Cuomo is another example of this. What I’m still confused about is why it took so long for at least some of the progressives to acknowledge that his many (alleged) sexual assaults are not ok. And even more surprising is the complete radio silence on his program to purposely send covid-positive patients into senior housing, which at the time was filled with vulnerable, unvaccinated people. Many thousands of people died as a result. But hey, keep focusing on locker room talk instead actual sexually assaulted women and thousands of dead due to specific directions.
I like how you use the *exact term* the Trump campaign used to dismiss this.
Dude's just talking about assaulting people in the *locker room,* all cool.
FYI-I'm not, and never have been, a fan of Cuomo. A nepotistic creep. That's actually not saying much, but I can also say that many leftists I know disliked Cuomo for a long time (that's why the guy didn't run for President).
You don’t seem to know what the term means. You can make up whatever you want beyond what it is but that won’t change it.
I’m glad you’re not and never been a fan of Cuomo. Way to take a stand against his assaulting and murderous actions.
And your post was what my previous post discussed. Focus on someone just talking versus someone that has likely committed many sexual assaults and is the architect behind thousands of people dying.
Dude’s just talking about assaulting people
Except he didn't. Not once did he talk about doing anything to anyone without their consent. Go peddle your mendacious DNC agitprop elsewhere, you paid shill.
Ha, I read that first as, "Selling other men's wives' hair...."
His only call to action is that readers resist the temptation to think of violence as "an easily recognizable, objectively distinguishable, superlatively condemnable set of behaviors, engaged in by an easily recognizable, objectively distinguishable, superlatively condemnable category of people."
Oh don't worry, we're already there, and arguably way past that. We had a year of "Mostly Peaceful Protests" to usher that reality before our very lying eyes.
His only call to action is that readers resist the temptation to think of violence as “an easily recognizable, objectively distinguishable, superlatively condemnable set of behaviors, engaged in by an easily recognizable, objectively distinguishable, superlatively condemnable category of people.”
I had a rather lengthy response I was starting to write about how it appears this author has completely missed the point by making high deconstructive arguments using 'playful language' about the "definitions of violence", but then I realized I didn't want to waste my Saturday. Very few people argue that many of the examples the author gives are not "violence", the question is "acceptable violence" vs "unacceptable violence". Yes, that varies from culture to culture, with a lot of clear universals shared between. But most people consider the violence of two willing participants, entering a ring with a Referee, fairly reasonably defined rules that both parties understand, protective gear, an on-hand physician with the authority to stop the violence if the situation is assessed to be medically dangerous... to be very different from the violence perpetrated by a shirtless meth addicts to bludgeons my daughter on the city bus so he can take her backpack. The question is not whether or not one or the other could be broadly defined as "violence", the question is which one is acceptable.
Some cultures and jurisdictions have rules which say that any act of self-defense which results in harm to the attacker are Unacceptable forms of Violence (duty to flee). Other jurisdictions suggest if you're attacked, deadly violence can be used to repel the attacker. One may agree or disagree with one or the other of those two legal lines of reasoning, but it's not a question of one being violent and the other not, again, it's a question of acceptability.
What becomes dangerous is when we try to deconstruct the definitions of violence so as to make them so blurry, that a rampaging mob can murder and burn down entire city blocks, and we call it "peaceful". That's when things get dangerous. I'd rather you tell me it was "violent but acceptable" rather than "peaceful". Because one acknowledges the truth, but argues cultural acceptance, the other is flat out lying to me.
Does this apply to calling rampaging mobs that climb walls, smash windows, yell about hanging people, and assault security guards tourists? Asking for a (political prisoner of course) friend.
I guess telling you about the billions of dollars of damage, the arson and dozens of murders committed by leftists last year is: “whatsboutism”z
I don't think either sound 'peaceful' or as the actions of 'tourists.' I'm just wondering if Dianne thought the same.
No you weren't. You were trying to neutralize a topic that reflects poorly on the Democrats by lying about January 6th and using it as a whatabout.
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/one-man-killed-after-homeless-crowd-attacks-couple-seattle-encampment
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One Man Killed After Homeless Crowd Attacks Couple At Seattle Encampment
Tyler Durden's Photo
BY TYLER DURDEN
SATURDAY, AUG 07, 2021 - 03:30 PM
A man was killed by an "angry group" of homeless people in Seattle after venturing to their encampment to retrieve items stolen from him during a burglary.
Seattle police responded to a hit and run call on July 27 "at a large tent encampment at Dexter Avenue North and Mercer Street," according to KIRO 7 News.
A couple had driven to the South Lake Union homeless encampment in hopes of finding items stolen from them when their car was burglarized. The driver told police they were able to locate his shoes and a Bluetooth speaker that belonged to him. They had their 2 year old son in a car seat with them.
The couple was "immediately attacked by several people in the group," according to the police. Nearby surveillance footage showed the driver being hit in the back with a 5 foot wooden pole while another man "smashed the windows of the car with a machete".
The report says that additional people joined with rocks and sticks and that a woman began fighting with the female passenger in the car.
The driver desperately tried to get away and wound up speeding through the crowd, killing a man who was part of the group attacking the car.
One man who attacked the car, Mario Miller, is a 12 time felon in Washington and California. Another, John Rosser IV, was a 9 time felon.
A nearby business owner said: “It was a car being attacked. Being surrounded by people from this encampment. And they were bashing the car to pieces with bars, sticks, whatever they had. Then the car made a run for it to break through this crowd. One of the guys who was surrounding the car got thrown up into the air and then run over by this vehicle.”
He continued: “Since Denny Park (encampment) closed down, these are the worst of these types of people. It’s almost the center of crime here.”
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I had many women in my life explain this to me when I was willing to just listen: imagine that one half of the population was generally bigger and stronger than you and, statistically siginificantly more prone to violence. Social situations meant that often you would be alone, one on one, with this group.
That's terrifying. The far less substantiated and significant threat of something like BLM or Antifa attacking you has many conservatives quite worked up, demanding this and that policy and social changes....
Put yourselves in other's shoes, or maybe heels?, and you'll see some interesting things...
As usual you're full of shit, paid troll.
Paranoid goofball goofs.
“Social situations meant that often you would be alone, one on one, with this group.”
Fortunately for gay men, their social partners are always the exact same size, height, weight, and man meat.
They could never know her fear.
Bear week has no weak bears.
Yep. That's why these types of women have learned to shoot and pack heat.
You should have explained to her that you can’t really determine sex based on secondary characteristics, and to stop dehumanizing people.
The women in your life sound incredibly sexist and bigoted.
Easy for a white Canadian male in a rural shithole to say
Don't you have some Mormon's kids to go torture, you antisemitic sociopath?
imagine that one half of the population was generally bigger and stronger than you and,
Wait, so now we're back to biological reality. Jesus fucking christ I can't keep up.
https://twitter.com/ConceptualJames/status/1424188638292807687?s=19
Question for thinking about: How much freedom do you have to lose before you'll value it?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/08/06/fully-vaccinated-may-transmit-delta-just-as-easily-and-new-variant-shows-signs-of-vaccine-evasion-early-uk-research-suggests/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
https://twitter.com/TimRunsHisMouth/status/1424107628179906563?s=19
You are truly a brainwashed sheep if you continue to listen to the government and restrict ANY part of your life after Obama's party.
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/chinese-city-offers-15000-reward-snitching-gatherings
"an easily recognizable, objectively distinguishable, superlatively condemnable set of behaviors, engaged in by an easily recognizable, objectively distinguishable, superlatively condemnable category of people."
That's exactly what I believe. You either initiate physical force or you don't.
The Armed Career Criminal Act package deal passed when the feds made safe psychedelics impossible to obtain. Gangland cronies again flooded the market with opiates and stimulants. This was the Biden-Reagan version of the "cocaine negroes" documendacities the NYT published as the 1914 Harrison Act was pushed into law. The harder stuff it led to was the 1986 Drug "Abuse" Act and the economic forfeiture contractions that resulted in the 1992 crashes all over North and South America. Classy.
Interesting, but what about the Corn Laws?
As a prison abolitionist I support stiffer sentences such as flogging, branding/mutilation, involuntary servitude and execution.
And so long as we must continue to live under the authority of the state they should have no monopoly on retributive violence.
#wickerman
I read a scifi once where minor crimes were met with a flogging by robot in the public square.
Take note of #3, and the environment the left has created:
https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1424202921382748161?s=19
1/ I don't think people get yet what the Israeli data mean.
Barring an extraordinary reversal, in days Israel will have more serious cases than at this time in 2020.
In a week it will have more VACCINATED serious cases than the total serious cases at this time in 2020...
2/ BUT MANY ADULTS IN ISRAEL HAVE ALREADY BEEN INFECTED AND RECOVERED.
Most have been vaccinated, since most adults have been vaccinated.
THEY SHOULD BE PROTECTED. NATURAL IMMUNITY IS REAL.
So the real pool of vaccinated at-risk people should be MUCH smaller than it appears...
3/ Which leaves us with two scenarios:
CENSORED
or
CENSORED
4/ Censored tweet on the stack
https://t.co/88af4fSoov
The third tweet in that thread
Alex Berenson
1 hr ago3913
3/ Either the vaccine is undoing natural immunity (spare me the ridiculous @CDCgov paper, please) and takes everyone to zero when it fails.
Or vaccinated people who were not previously infected and are thus dependent solely on vaccine immunity are doing quite poorly.
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The Marquis de Sade and the instructor in Full Metal Jacket had an interesting way to reduce crime. Punish the perpetrator AND the victim.
The victim was already punished, by the criminal.
And the Marquis just like punishing people.
Sadism is libertarianism taken to its logical conclusion.
It's difficult to express the absolutes of libertarianism while simultaneously insisting on a bunch of pragmatic restrictions on freedom, which just so happen to be the restrictions that favor the interests of the guy talking a good game about freedom.
Well, that maggot! That disgusting fat-body! He makes me wanna vomit!
How the media primes the population for compliance
1. X isn’t happening
2. What is happening isn’t X
3. X might be happening, but it’s a good thing
4. X is happening, but it’s optional
5. We need more of X
6. If you oppose X, you’re a bad person
7. X should be mandatory
8. Opposition to X should be a punishable offense
9. People fired for not going along with X weren’t canceled, it was just accountability
10. Thank our leaders we have X
What stage are we at now?
Doesn't all this happen simultaneously? ie we are at all stages, always have been, always will be.
We have always had X, any historical monuments and works showing otherwise will be destroyed; those countries/cultures without X are inferior, we will sanction/boycott/impose tariffs/restrict immigration. Soon followed by nobody says that 2+2 != X, then we have always been at war with Eastasia. This is not just the media, the running dogs on social media, in entertainment, and shilling on comment boards are equally responsible.
Maybe the only legitimate laws are those aimed at individuals who violate the NAP?
“Let's just make this easy. I'm in favor of a Constitutional amendment that would read something like this:
'Neither the federal government, nor any state or local government shall make any activity a crime unless said activity violates another person's right to life, liberty, or property, either through force or fraud.'
Could you live with that? Could you live with the thought that anyone in your community could do pretty much what they wish, so long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else? Now there's a definition of freedom--and it's something I suspect most of you just couldn't go along with.”
― Neal Boortz, Somebody's Gotta Say It
The amendment is "Government shall not initiate force."
That does include women who don't fix their fences and park on their own lawn, right?
Part of the problem is imprisoning people for things that shouldn't be crimes, but part of the problem is also letting other people get away with things that should. Pollution is harm. There's no getting around it. Until we're putting oil industry marketing departments in cages, we're not being libertarian.
Pollution can violate life and liberty.
Are you trying to agree with Neal?
and property
If we were libertarian the world would run on nuclear and we'd have flying electric cars you order on your phone. Power would be so cheap we'd produce any liquid hydrocarbon fuels we needed on demand by combining hydrogen from water and carbon from the air.
Sounds like a winner to me.
Of course, in a violence-free world, The Late Great Royal Marshall's seamless Queen's English interpretation of "Boo Got Shot" would seem rather strange. 🙂
Libertarians, at the very least, ought to be skeptical when the government categorizes people as irreparable, as tempting as it may be to shut off our brains when we hear the word "violent."
The fact is there is little moral case to be made for imprisoning anyone who isn't an immediate threat to public safety. Maybe putting humans in cages is a rational and just response to certain crimes, but probably it's just the easiest thing to do, not least because of the mental clearance that happens when you throw away the key and forget about them.
Pull on the thread and the thing unravels. Most of the people on death row have visible brain damage or defects. The entire concept of culpability, if not totally disposable, has to be examined critically at least.
The likelihood is that it's all too tempting to want to control types of people you don't want part of your society, and understanding the terrible truth that we wouldn't have our absurdly draconian incarceration state if not for our ethnic diversity doesn't have to stop there. We're all victims of the state we created to do our genocides, just some more than others. We can tackle it by increasing empathy for fellow citizens who don't look like us, or we can tackle it with pure selfishness. But you have to come back with some rationalization better than we've been using or else justice demands major reform.
Aye, Tony. I too have read Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein. Caging people only teaches people how to live in a cage.
If you want to lower violent crime end drug prohibition.
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“Solving mass incarceration requires releasing some seriously guilty and dangerous people.”
Then maybe we shouldn’t do that.
Release non-violent drug offenders and call it good.
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