Coronavirus

The CDC Wants Vaccinated Americans To Wear Masks Again

The government is also recommending universal masking in schools this fall.

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The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) will once again recommend masks for vaccinated Americans under certain circumstances, even though the odds of a vaccinated person transmitting COVID-19 to someone else remain exceedingly low.

The new guidance, issued by CDC Director Rochelle Walensky on Tuesday afternoon, also instructs school districts to require masks of all students, teachers, and staff members when classes resume in the fall.

Walensky said these decisions were made because the delta variant of COVID-19 is somewhat more transmissible than the other strains.

"Information from other states and countries shows that in rare cases some vaccinated people may be contagious and spread the virus to others," said Walensky. "This new science is worrisome and unfortunately warrants an update to our recommendations."

Unsurprisingly, this new recommendation is excessively cautious to the point of absurdity. Note that the vaccines still hold up remarkably well against the delta variant in terms of preventing severe disease and death. They also substantially reduce infection rates and transmissibility. But what the CDC has found is that when rare, breakthrough infections do occur, delta's viral load is high enough that a vaccinated person could potentially transmit the virus—probably not to another vaccinated person (who is extremely protected, in any case), but to an unvaccinated person.

The government is essentially saying that vaccinated people must resume indoor mask-wearing, not because the delta variant poses any danger to them or their vaccinated friends and family members, but because the minority of the country that stubbornly refuses to get vaccinated is at risk. (Note as well that the most at-risk group, senior citizens, have extremely high vaccination rates; the least vaccinated group, young children, are exceedingly unlikely to suffer death from COVID-19.)

It is hard to see how this new guidance is fair to the vaccinated, who have thus far done everything that was asked of them. Masks and other social distancing requirements were supposed to be temporary measures—remember "two weeks to slow the spread"?—until the vaccines were available. Federal health bureaucrats cannot perpetually deprive people of their rights in the name of public health.

The cure for the pandemic is here, and if people won't take advantage of it in order to keep themselves safe, at some point—like, now—that's on them, not the already vaccinated.

NEXT: New Poll Shows California Voters Split on Gov. Gavin Newsom Recall

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567 responses to “The CDC Wants Vaccinated Americans To Wear Masks Again

  1. Oh, for fuck’s sake. So just like last year when masks suddenly became the thing. In fucking summer time, after the epidemic is over. And there is still very little reason to believe that masks, as they are actually used in the real world, make any significant difference on how things play out. It’s all just desperation to be seen to be doing something.

    1. Bingo.

      ‘We should do something!’
      ‘This is something . . .’

      1. They could go pound sand. That would be something.

        1. *fires up the wood chipper* Option B

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    2. “is somewhat more transmissible than the other strains.”
      Actually that is a gross understatement. A typical viral load from Delta is 1000x greater than a typical viral load from Alpha

      1. Who the f*ck cares? It’s the FLU! 98% will be slightly ill. It’s not f*cking ebola moron.

        1. Well since the common cold is also a corona virus, it’s more like a cold. Which does raise an interesting question. If they made a vaccine for COVID-19 why can’t they whip one out for the cold? Or the corollary, will COVID-19 be around forever? (Not the mask mandates, those will definitely be around forever.)

          1. And it is very far from being a rhinovirus.
            Clearly you understand no biology. You comment is the same as saying that my dachshund and a large grey wolf are just Canis lupus. Therefore neither is more dangerous than the other.

            1. Actually no. In your snide condescending down looking you missed the point that about 20% of the ‘common’ colds that people develop each year are caused by a corona virus. A virus that oddly enough is quite adaptable, or as Dr. Fauci would claim, develops variants at a quick rate. Yet you, whom I’m sure are a virologist, microbiologist, epidemiologist specialist working at the CDC level 5 super secure mom’s basement facility, just know that it can’t be ~nearly~ as adaptable as the common cold. Nor could techniques used to target pathogen cell docking characteristics be applied to the common cold. You just Know that, amiright? If you were a libertarian, you might have thought about it instead of trying to use snark and marking yourself as a moron.

          2. Colds are not Coronavirus. They are a Rhino virus.

        2. It is NOT the flu. Not even close.
          Where did you get your misimformation? Facebook.

      2. Seems markedly less lethal.

        And the original COVID-19 was not exactly a death sentence for very many who got it.

        1. No, only for 1.5% to 2.0% in the US. The recent fatality rate is closer to 2.5%

      3. Don Nico
        July.27.2021 at 5:15 pm

        Stuff your PANIC fag up your ass, stick first, cowardly piece of shit.

      4. 1000x ain’t that much, unless you’re trying to panic a bunch of noobs.

      5. Um, Actually…no one gives a shit. Unless we get a Captain Trips variant and Don’t Fear the Reaper starts playing in the background. Then I’ll see all you whiners in Hell.

      6. While Delta is more contagious, it is also much less virulent which means your odds of becoming seriously ill or dying is extremely low; much lower than with the overhyped earlier strains. This is the natural progression for viruses. In order to survive, they become more contagious but far less lethal. If they kill all their hosts, they don’t survive to infect new hosts and continue their lifecycle.

        1. Jeff,
          “While Delta is more contagious, it is also much less virulent”
          The data in the US, India, Germany, France, Iran, etc. say very much the opposite.
          Check out Our World In Data from Oxford; its all there, and run the sums yourself.

    3. Actually, masking appears to harm those under 18, with the consequential CO2 buildup. Contrast that danger with the almost non existent danger to those demographics of Alpha variant COVID-19 (Delta has a fatality rate 1/8 to 1/10 that of Alpha). So, of course, Faucci and the Feds are now suggesting that kids in those demographics mask in order to go to school.

      1. More made up psuedo-science.
        “Delta has a fatality rate 1/8 to 1/10 that of Alpha”
        Delta is 20x more deadly than Alpha.

        1. Based on…what figures, exactly?

          We’re having “skyrocketing” infections but minimal deaths. There is virtually no similarity in charts of infections and deaths.

          1. BAsed on what? Learn to read. There are tens of journal papers and hundreds of news reports that describe the Delta variant correctly.

            1. Sorry, nope.

            2. “BAsed on what? Learn to read. There are tens of journal papers and hundreds of news reports that describe the Delta variant correctly.”

              I’ll stick with actual death v infection numbers. Feel free to provide alternatives to those.

              1. Fool, you look at 1 number and think that your an epidemiologist. Think again.
                Better still download the entire world database on Our World in Data and run the numbers in detail.
                You’ll be surprised at how ignorant you are

          1. Yeah, I’d like some stats. Can’t really find many yet, but most places I’ve heard speak of it as having a basically equivalent death rate as the standard variant.

            1. I’ve seen one third the death rate but more transmission. Don’t believe the latter.

              1. Try approximately Alpha R0=2.7 and CFR=1.9%, Delta R0=6.0 and CFR=.2%-.3%.

                https://thepoog.com/wp/2021/07/17/update1-delta-variant-lethality-and-covid-vaccine-damage/

                1. Big if true. Don Nico, your response?

                2. Try approximately Alpha R0=2.7 and CFR=1.9%, Delta R0=6.0 and CFR=.2%-.3%.

                  So ~2x as transmissible, but ~1/10 as virulent? Does that mean 1/5 as “dangerous” or is there something weird with the R0 numbers?

                3. Try reading serious journals. Or better run the numbers yourself

          2. Look it up using Google. I have stopped doing homework for the willfully ignorant.

            1. Meaning you can’t provide the citation so you resort to insinuating the other person is to dumb to find the information themselves. A rather sophomoric tactic.

              1. He sounds like Cenk Uygur from The Young Turks. “Just Google it!”

              2. Soldier, just get sick and ckoke on your pheglm

        2. Don Nico
          July.27.2021 at 5:33 pm

          Stuff your PANIC fag up your ass, stick first, cowardly piece of shit.

          1. What an asshole you are. Muted.

            1. Oh I’m sure that hurt his feelings.

        3. 20X LOL…

        4. Only to the vaccinated. If you are unvaccinated it is 1/10 as deadly.

          1. You can say that about any variant, because it is a characteristic of the variant and not the vaccine.
            However the vaccines do have roughly 10% lower efficacy against the Delta variant
            “Effectiveness of Covid-19 Vaccines against the B.1.617.2
            (Delta) Variant” New England Journal of Medicine https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891

            1. Since most vaccines, even small pox and polio, have efficacy only in the 70-80% range how many a this different?

              1. How is this any different?

                1. Again, your question betray gross ignorance of medicine.
                  Get sick; I don’t really give a damn

      2. Masks harm everyone who wears them. Masks reduce the flow of oxygen into the blood, thereby making the heart work harder. Masks also recycle the microorganisms that get stuck on them and masks also make us re-bread CO2. Last time I checked, I didn’t have an ability to do photosynthesis and I doubt that my organism can convert CO2 into food. For my organism, CO2 is a poison.
        However, we should get some carbon tax credit for preventing all this CO2 from getting back to the atmosphere and from frightening the poor Greta Thunberg.

    4. “It’s all just desperation to be seen to be doing something.”

      That’s the very charitable interpretation.

      1. Apparently the government believes that the vaccinated population is compliant. They will mask up again to protect the non-compliant who won’t get the vaccine. I’m vaccinated. If the vaccine were no longer available or people couldn’t afford it or we didn’t know about the virus, I would mask up again, but it’s time for the non vaccinated to live at their own risk.

    5. The epidemic isn’t over.

      Because idiots won’t get vaccinated.

      And children can’t get vaccinated. Yet.

    6. “…desperation to be seen to be doing something…” Precisely. Dimocrats are essentially void of any meaningful ideas, so they resort to the ones that make people think they’re actually accomplishing something.

  2. “The cure for the pandemic is here, and if people won’t take advantage of it in order to keep themselves safe, at some point—like, now—that’s on them, not the already vaccinated.”

    In a nutshell.

    1. I say mandate the vaccines just like the ones mandated for children to attend public schools! I’m of the opinion the vaccinated should NOT have to lose one iota of freedom over the selfish jerks who won’t get the vaccine.

      I say let the idiots die. If they don’t get the vaccine, that’s on them. Screw ’em. Let ’em die. It’s their own stupidity.

      1. Are you a jfree parody?

      2. Screw you.
        You die wc46, since you’re a threat to everybody’s freedom.

        1. You Freedoms don’t include being a vector for infection that could kill people.

      3. you hate america and you hate liberty. leave this country now.

        1. Your Liberties are being curtailed and it’s called Police Powers. It’s perfectly Constitutional

      4. I’m of the opinion the vaccinated should NOT have to lose one iota of freedom over the selfish jerks who won’t get the vaccine.

        except it’s not the unjabbed people telling us to mask up, it’s the fucking politicians and their health care lackeys…quite obviously this a power play by them to turn the populace aginst itself so as to shield themselves from public anger…

        the oldest political play in the book, and it completely escaped your notice…

      5. I say let the idiots die. If they don’t get the vaccine, that’s on them. Screw ’em. Let ’em die. It’s their own stupidity.

        I wish the unvaccinated no harm and no ill will. I assume they have had ample opportunity to make their own risk assessments and have had ample opportunity to get vaccinated if they so desire.

        Either way, their safety is not my responsibility.

    2. Let it rip through the population and take out the dross.

  3. “put this in you. it won’t make you not sick. it won’t make you not *get* sick. and put a fucking sock in it, too.”

    1. ^this

    2. It will reduce your likelihood of getting sick by 90+%.

      So put it in you.

  4. SCIENCE!

  5. Hey jfree, should we also ban people from the hospital if they didn’t wear a mask 24-7?

    1. I repeat – if the hospitals hit max, the unvax should not be admitted. That triage policy should be announced ahead of time so that the unvax can decide for themselves. If enough of them get vax, then the odds of hospitals hitting max drops to zero. If they want to be unvax – for whatever reason – fear or politics – then now they know the risks/costs of their choice.

      Covid is no longer relevant to the vaccinated.

      1. Now do fatties.

        1. “I’m doing my part,” he says while saluting the camera

          1. Wide angle lens.

      2. Covid is no longer relevant to the vaccinated.
        So why are they to wear masks?

        1. To show obedience.

        2. And why would the hospitals fill up with them to the exclusion of the unvaxed?

      3. if the hospitals hit max, the unvax should not be admitted.

        This might be the dumbest policy idea I’ve ever read in Reason comments.

        Dude, your ideas are so terrible you should work in government.

        1. Why is it so dumb? If there is a school massacre so big that the local hospital is maxxed out – and a ton of the injured and the perpetrator all go to hospital – why should the perp be first in line for admission?

          Maybe you people do not want to admit this but the unvax are the CAUSE of hospitals hitting max now if they do hit max. They are the ones spreading the disease. They are the ones getting hospitalized. They are the only ones who can stop hit. It is entirely their choice.

          All I am doing is stopping the freeload option – where they take the risk of getting the disease and the cost of spreading it – but get to go to the front of the line when all the worst scenarios pan out.

            1. We should wear condoms in public? It wouldn’t surprise me. For the first 58 years of my life, the person who enters a bank wearing a mask would immediately be confronted by security and would trigger all kinds of alarms. During the last 2 years of my life, I couldn’t enter a bank without wearing a mask. Having to have a hard on and a condom in public wouldn’t surprise me.

              1. Viagra and Cialis stocks through the roof.

                1. Outside of their headquarters, Pfizer should erect a statue of the scientist that invented Viagra.

                  1. Or just a giant erect penis?

          1. … why should the perp be first in line for admission?
            Because the kids aren’t vaccinated.

          2. They aren’t going to get overwhelmed. Hardly any really did when no one was vaccinated. Now that most people likely to get seriously ill are vaccinated, it seems very unlikely. Unless a strain develops that is more deadly and for which the vaccine doesn’t work. In which case your point is moot.

            1. I think that (won’t hit capacity) is likely overall. But the local reality is that there are areas that are effectively unvaccinated right now. And those are exactly the areas that will more likely hit max and will more likely ship off patients to other areas to burden them too. They are also the areas that can do the most to change their future.

              With my idea – forcing them to face the reality they create – the closer they get to max, the more likely people are to take voluntary measures (get vaccinated) which almost immediately drops the spread and the hospital max problem.

              I have seen precisely zero data re either the mortality or hospitalization rate re the delta variant by age or morbidities or somesuch. So maybe the assumption about the original covid remains the same for the delta variant – and maybe its not.

              1. Your idea is you forcing your morality on others. You’re an authoritarian.

                The reality is life is full of risk. The reality is disease exists. The reality is we don’t compromise freedom for the appearance of safety.

                1. This has probably been the most revealing issue that is highlighting the authoritarians/totalitarians.

                  When it comes down to it, every time the right leaning libertarians have the mantra of “leave me alone” or “fuck off slaver”, whereas the leftists on here fall firmly in the “obey the state, your freedoms are secondary to what the mob desires” camp.

                  The hardcore authoritarians on here who are advocating for or wishing poor outcomes on those who dont want the vaccine is really them just letting the mask slip further than they intended. But we all knew what was behind there the whole time.

                  1. Jim, What is happening is that everyone not vaccinated with get COVID-19. The vaccinated are getting asymptomatic DELTA. They will infect the anti-vax, anti-mask crowd leading to at least 2% deaths among that group of infected people.
                    And at least we’ll have fewer stupid people.

                    1. Nonsense. My good friend, who is fully vaccinated, just got COVID last week. She is having terrible symptoms. You speak of “stupid people”, but you sure know how to make yourself look like one.

                    2. Well then. Your anecdote disproves all scientific data. Let’s go with that.

                    3. What scientific data has been offered to the contrary Pedo Jeffy? Unsubstantiated predictions mean nothing.

                    4. just because someone doesn’t want the rona vaccine does not make that person “ati-vax”. buy a clue. there are many good reasons to no want the vaccine. for example, if you’re under 60 and healthy the virus presents little to no risk — so why put an experimental drug in your body when it’s unneeded? i don’t have the rona vaccine, but i believe in vaccines and have many of them. i just don’t believe that i need this vaccine.

          3. “…All I am doing is stopping the freeload option…”

            Stuff your PANIC flag up your ass, stick first, cowardly piece of shit.

          4. All I am doing is stopping the freeload option”

            so now you moved the goal post.
            what are your feeling about healthcare for all, for or against?

            1. Wonder if he realizes he is now supporting ACA and their arguments directly.

            2. I oppose all forms of healthcare for antivaxxers. I oppose oxygen for them too.

          5. It’s unbelievably dumb because you’re trying to tell the doctors how to triage and admit. Now get the fuck out of the ER and back in your mom’s basement.

          6. So ban school massacres

          7. If vaccines work, why mask the vaccinated? Besides, it’s the gd flu.

      4. >>if the hospitals hit max, the unvax should not be admitted

        lol you’re a supervillan

        >>Covid is no longer relevant to the vaccinated

        vaccinated Colts tests positive. film last Monday @11

      5. And abortions should be illegal for any woman not on the pill

        1. Chemotherapy should not be made available to smokers.

          1. Not available for anyone who has ever done anything contrary to a CA Prop 65 warning

            Will certainly cut down on a lot of medical bills

            1. >>cut down on a lot of medical bills

              Fauci’s decades-long policies of killing the aged and infirm.

      6. JF,
        That policy is patently unfair to the 35 million Americans who recovered from COVID and now have substantial immunity. Even Macron in France has figured that out

        1. If they are admitted to hospital with covid, then they were wrong about their assumption of immunity weren’t they.

          1. JF, are you really this deaf to all the replies? Even this article states vaccinated are NOT immune.

            For JF: Thought Experiment:
            3 people show up to hospital:
            * gun shot wounded, critical (no vax an has covid)
            * critical patient, unvaxed, covid is killing them
            * broken arm, stable individual, vaxed, no covid

            Hospital can take TWO of these people: Using your policy.. GO…

            1. 1 and 3 get treatment.

              1. you are a horrible person.

                1. Leftists aren’t people

              2. Despite the fact that #3 would be perfectly fine, most likely being treated as an outpatient, you would treat them over someone who would die, to prove a point.

                You fuckers have shown many times your desire for those that don’t fall in line with the statists to either be locked up or killed.

                Its no surprise there was a benign, morally good correct answer and you went with “let em die to prove a point…theyll fall in line next time”

                This is exactly why communism / socialism always end up with the same outcome. Because the people that want it always have this in their hearts.

                1. Not at all. I am simply respecting their choice. If they are not vaccinated then it means they want to die of covid. It is not my place to interfere with their suicide.

                  1. Now do fat people. And smoking. And drinking.

                    Just admit you are a shameless authoritarian that wants to force people to act like good sheep, or else.

                    Also every weekend in my hospital we consistently get shootings, the majority of which are black on black crime. Should we stop taking care of them as well? Its a huge drain on the system, the blood bank, hospital resources etc. Should we just stop treating them because they wanted to play gang banger?…looking forward to your response, racist.

                  2. Perhaps they can still fulfill their wish for suicide via the vaccine itself, COVID be damned: https://www.bitchute.com/video/Nm5KzupY3xWw/. It can happen.

                  3. If they are not vaccinated then it means they want to die of covid.

                    every time I think I’ve heard the stupidest things people can say, someone always shows up and proves my assumption wrong…

                    thanks for setting me straight, Molly…

                2. “Obedience uber alles”
                  -jfree

              3. Turns out patient 2 was vaccinated but caught covid anyways. And the govt agency in charge of COVID vaccination, the National Agency on Zeroing Infections, messed up and sent the wrong info. The patient died awaiting the corrected documentation. Unvaccinated are blamed for needing to have such an agency. Biden doubles their budget and provides them with firearms, body armor and armored vehicles. A crypto transaction tax is imposed to pay for the spending increase and covers 30% of the costs.

              4. The better solution is to protect our freedoms and increase our surplus hospital capacity by liquidating slavers like Molly and Jfree.

              5. Actually you’re kind Molly.
                I’d refuse 1 also; save a bed for a less stupid person who needs it

                1. How evil you are.

            2. This isn’t MASH.
              First – broken arm is almost never an admitted to hospital issue and no other choice.

              Second – the second person is not going to be admitted for an hour or two. They are likely to be admitted for a couple weeks. which means every FUTURE critical person with a heart attack or stroke or car crash or pregnancy complication is also going to be rejected. THIS is why the problem of hospitals hitting max causes overall death rates to skyrocket.

              Third – more seriously, hospitals hitting max is not a single measure. The bottleneck probably differs from hospital to hospital. Maybe the bottleneck is ICU beds – maybe its respiratory therapists – maybe its something else. But regardless there is an opportunity cost to resolving that bottleneck and resolving it comes at the expense of every other thing that the hospital could do. I wouldathunk that a libertarian comment section would understand that but apparently stupidity reigns among the unvaxxed R/Mises contingent.

          2. People vaccinated are getting covid. How stupid are you?

            1. He’s very stupid. And obsessed with forcing his beliefs on all of us. This is an assault, and we should react in self defense.

            2. And many of them are now asymptomatic and ready to spread it to the unvaccinated fools

              1. Care to show us the numbers that point to this?

          3. What about measles? Should people who don’t get measles vaccine be barred from hospital care as well?

          4. That must be the single stupidest thing I’ve ever heard on any Reason thread. Why not also deny care to breakthrough cases in the vaxxed? Social justice?

          5. “If they are admitted to hospital with covid, then they were wrong about their assumption of immunity weren’t they.”

            So…do NOT listen to the science, then?

      7. You would think that this would be a WONDERFUL time to bring up all the ways that government artificially restricts the amount of healthcare available in the country, but “weirdly” Reason didn’t mention it at all.

      8. So, should we punish the overweight or people with diabetes in a similar manner?

      9. LOL I love all of these responses to your idea with the complaint that you just aren’t consistent enough in applying it.

        “Sure, I’ll totally support turning away the unvaxxed from hospitals, as long as they also turn away the fatties and the druggies!”

        The reason why this is a terrible idea is that it does violence to the mission of a hospital to heal the sick. They are not supposed to be the moral guardians of the community.

        If a private hospital using private funds wanted to do that, of course they would have the liberty to do so, but it would be a bad idea.

        Plus it would give license for everyone to question their medical professionalism, if they were to be making judgments on this moralistic of a level.

        “So, you don’t think an abortion is ‘medically necessary’ then… is that because of your moral beliefs or is that because of your medical training? I’m not sure…”

        1. You’re only upset because you’re worried fatties will be turned away.

        2. I agree that a hospital and individual doctors would/could never implement this. They are always going to focus on the individual patients in front of them and that’s as it should be.

          But when the hospitals are full that means they are full until someone dies or is released in future (or capacity expands). That means if you are admitting one person you are rejecting future admissions where you don’t know anything about the patient. You can’t go back and throw the person you already admitted on the street because now someone more VIP comes along. And no one knows the future patients triage situations.

          Doctors cannot do this. An individual hospital cannot. But this is exactly why every governance entity has some element of a plan for this scenario in their emergency kit. Call it Crisis Standard of Care or Disaster Plan or whatever.

          All I am saying is that for THIS pandemic/emergency (and it will become a local emergency again when hospitals there approach capacity), that vax/nonvax is actually a critically important factor for lowering the curve. There is nothing else that is even remotely a potential cause for hitting the cap.

          If what I’m saying is unpleasant to the unvax whiners – big fucking deal.

          1. What if a hospital violated your edict? Shut them down? Jail the head of the hospital? Bar the doctors and nurses from practicing medicine again?

            1. None of that. Not sure you understand what hospital hitting max really means. It means there’s a long line of people who die of heart attack, stroke, car accidents, pregnancy complications, etc – during that time when hospital maxcap is exceeded. Absent a guideline like this, the hospital faces potential liability for having rejected them all – and everyone can sue everyone else. So in fact, ‘triage’ becomes a post-facto decision by courts. Because ER professionals KNOW that all their decisions will be second-guessed when over capacity – by everyone inside and outside the hospital – they cease to function.

              That is why triage decisions are not made ad hoc. A standard of care is established formally – in every state. And that can change in an emergency. Here in CO, it uses SOFA (Sequential Organ Failure) and Charlson Comorbidity Index (which includes age and other chronic diseases like cancer etc). There are other systems like APACHE 2.

              The point is that absent a change in the triage conditions – everyone who is age 40 say and unvaxxed and gets covid serious enough for hospital – will ‘kick out’ every other patient who is either over 50 or who has ANY morbidity disease. Lombardy faced the situation for a couple of weeks where everyone over age-60 (I think) who came to hospital for any reason was told to go home and die.

              This isn’t a fucking game. People will die in large numbers if hospitals hit max.

              1. So this is just you bullshitting and hoping for a court-approved anti unvaccinated directive to bar some folks from being admitted. Heaven forbid the medical professionals make their own standard of care decisions. We need the courts to impose some rule that gives you a boner just thinking about unvaccinated people dying.
                Maybe the IRS should impose a $100k public health adder to the income taxes of unvaccinated.

                1. Medical professionals – or a subset of them appointed by the Governor in each state – are the ones who create the standards of care for crisis/emergency situations. Unlike you however, they know how many people will die when hospitals hit max and their goal is to reduce that number of deaths.

                  1. “Unlike you however, they know how many people will die when hospitals hit max and their goal is to reduce that number of deaths.

                    Well, Cuomo’s people, fortunately, avoided that problem by murdering the elderly to avoid that problem.

                    Just like JFree would approve.

          2. Hospitals will not fill up, unless they will make big $$ by doing so. You have no clue regarding medicine, hospitals, or patient care.

        3. Not one person is complaining about Jfacist post. They’re pointing out the obvious horribleness of his position.

      10. “Covid is no longer relevant to the vaccinated.”

        That’s news to me. Says who?

      11. We repeat. You’re a fascist. You believe your morality should restrict others from the market.

        1. He has no actual morality. This is about punishing disobedience.

      12. Um, the hospitals will totally continue to fill up no matter how many people are vaccinated. Our population is like 40% obese. If you also advocated for denying healthcare to all of the disgusting slobs out there I would take you way more seriously. As it stands now your position is just hypocrisy.

      13. Triage is when you separate those in need of medical care into three groups: those that will die no matter whether they receive care, those that will live no matter whether they receive care and those that will die unless they receive care. It is a pragmatic and ethical way to decide how to use limited medical resources. What you are proposing is not triage; it is an authoritarian policy with a cowardly motive. You are like the survivor on a lifeboat rationalizing allowing the other survivors to die (or actively killing them) in order to have the food and water last longer for yourself.

        1. You’re assuming that people cannot change their vax/unvax situation in a matter of seconds. And in so doing, also eliminate the probability of hitting maxcap.

          My solution is what saves lives. Including of the unvax.

          1. And those people who medically cannot take the vaccine for medical reasons?

          2. But your life, and the lives of the other totalitarians, doesn’t matter.
            You’re too much of a pussy to survive for yourself.

          3. My comment isn’t about the choice of whether to get vaccinated; it is about your referring to your plan as ‘triage’. Reasonable people accept the concept of triage because it is necessary to face harsh realities. Reasonable people would not accept your plan to devalue some lives because you disagree with the choices they made. Please don’t refer to your plan as triage; it is disrespectful to the people who actually have to perform triage.

            1. Well my purpose was not to redefine a word. Nor is it to ‘devalue some lives because I disagree with the choices they made’. This is not about pique. It is about recognizing the factual consequences of those decisions on others. Not just on those others who get covid. But on everyone who may need hospital care during a window when that community is over capacity. That leads to huge numbers of deaths and anyone who makes triage decisions also understands that that is a very different sort of decision. That is why every medical person I know understands the purpose of ‘lowering the curve’.

              My idea in fact is the only way to lower that curve now because the vaccinated cannot do anything to protect the unvax. Only the unvax can protect themselves – or suffer the consequences.

      14. COVID was barely relevant to anyone under the age of 80. This is a disease that 40% of the people who catch it exhibit no notable symptoms? How terrible. 50% more have very mild symptoms resolve on their own. Quaking. Survivability of 99.5% or so for the under-80 crowd, and 92.5% for the over-80.

        Stop trying to condition people that COVID is airborne Ebola.

      15. if the hospitals hit max, the unvax should not be admitted.

        “If…” – Sparta

        But seriously, why the hell would hospitals hit capacity *now*? Only a very few places even got close during the earliest and worst days of the pandemic. We now have ~50% of the population vaccinated. A double-digit percentage with naturally acquired immunity. And the most vulnerable are either (sadly) dead already or vaccinated at a rate approaching 90%!

        On top of that, we have far better treatment protocols now than at this time last year, so the need for the ICU or intubation is far lower than before.

        And we’re talking about the spread of a variant that – based on UK data – appears much less virulent than the alpha strain.

    2. Update: JFree is still a bad person.

  6. Whatever became of that crazy bitch’s “feeling of doom”?

    1. One thing I have learned from all of this is that a lot of people who study diseases and public health are excessively scared of germs and aren’t very good at assessing risk.

      1. They only work with the tail end of distributions in epidemiology. Their experience is limited to the worst outcomes, so their perception is skewed.

        1. Cops have the same issues, btw. Especially SVU cops.

          1. Yeah, a lot do, the perceived victim mentality is becoming a facet of American life. The 2 Capitol Police officers who were in front of Congress today definitely had this issue. Am not saying they were not frightened, or that racist language may not have been used. I am saying that yes, loud crowds can be scary, but why take the job if you can’t handle a bit of stress? Did they not get the memo after 2020 that some people don’t like cops? Did they not ask, after the weeks of media talking about violence, about contingency plans for a breach? About when the Fed troops would show? Finding out what failed at my job seems like it would be more important to me than making did I made the talk show circuit. Or, I could lie to support the shitbags who will give me national power to bully people and arrest, hold them indefinitely.

            1. They were insurrectionists.

        2. You’re talking through your hat. Explain yourself in simple English

          1. Hyperbole is a word, you know.

            Or, maybe it’s one you don’t.

            1. Oh, you mean another word for a bald lie. Got it, fool.

      2. Well in fairness, their entire job is to try to stop other people from getting sick. If people must go to extreme lengths in order to prevent even one person from getting sick, then – mission accomplished!

        1. So much for “individualist “.

          1. So much for ‘brains’.

          2. That’s what got us into this mess in the first place. We value Individualism. And that’s not compatible with this situation.

        2. That is not their job. It is amazing how little you understand about everything. Their job is to understand infection vectors and provide information on possible risks or vectors of infection. It is not to blindly prevent all sickness.

      3. Most people who work in any bureaucracy are paralyzingly risk-averse.

        1. You fix that with more money and power– then they become capricious and destructive.

      4. Some of them make Howard Hughes look like Pigpen.

      5. They are losers who either couldn’t get into med school (MPH or PhD), or couldn’t hack it as practicing doctors.

    2. It is manifesting in this new chicken little bullshit.

    3. I’ve got her feeling of doom right here.

  7. It’s so refreshing to have the pro-science party back in power. Not only did Biden deliver the vaccine and shut down the virus, now he’s about to shut down this delta variant as well.

    #LibertariansForBiden
    #LibertariansForMaskMandates

    1. Not only did Biden deliver the vaccine and shut down the virus, now he’s about to shut down this delta variant as well.

      The funny thing is that when infections on this inevitably plummet, like they did in India after a few weeks, the senile bastard probably will get the credit for his bureaucrats’ panic-stricken policies, rather than the fact that infections always decline eventually.

      1. Use your glasses before checking Worldometer. Your just seeing the calm before the next wave. Moreover the daily case fatality rate in India has now climbed to 2%

        1. Yep, sky definitely falling. Walls closing in. Whatever.

        2. Interestingly, the cases have been going down with only a 3% increase in fully-vaccinated people. India went from 3% fully-vaccinated to 6% and the cases started dropping. I thought we needed about 70+% to achieve such a thing.

          https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz-data-from-india-continues-to-blow-up-the-delta-fear-narrative

      2. Funny thing is that cases are already declining in the US. But, yes, I fully expect credit to be given to the masks, as opposed to the weather (cases started decreasing around this time in the US last year).

        1. Correction: looking at the latest data, this is no longer true. It does look like we are very close to the peak though.

          1. That’s what some experts think. They think we’ll peak by August 1.

  8. Fair? This is another loyalty test. Power and control. That’s all neo marxists know. They are traitors.

    1. Bingo. It’s an exercise in compulsion and control. It’s all about power.

      1. And is nothing to sneeze at. They will continue to cough up reasons for this.

          1. Oops, sorry, unintentional flag.

  9. “The government is essentially saying that vaccinated people must resume indoor mask-wearing, not because the delta variant poses any danger to them or their vaccinated friends and family members, but because the minority of the country that stubbornly refuses to get vaccinated is at risk.”

    Using the coercive power of government to force us to make sacrifices for the greater good (as progressives see it) is what being a progressive is all about. So long as we have a national government controlled by Democrats, these kinds of awful policies will be routine. The beating will continue until morale improves.

    Hopefully, the American people will still have this, school closures, etc., in mind come November of 2022. Until then, it’s incumbent upon each and every libertarian to remind their friends and family why these kinds of decisions arise naturally from progressive ideology and why progressives are America’s most horrible people.

    1. Disaffected, anti-social, inconsequential, virus-flouting clingers are among my favorite culture war casualties.

      1. So, you’re conceding that using the coercive power of government to force us to do stupid things against our will is the guiding principle of progressive politics?

        Because it isn’t just about mask wearing.

        They want to force us to sacrifice our standard of living to save the polar bears and people in other countries.

        They want us to sacrifice our freedom of speech so that they can protect stupid people from “misinformation”.

        They want us to sacrifice money out of our future paychecks so that other people can go to community college for free.

        The list goes on and on and on.

        Show me a progressive issue, and I’ll show you an example of them trying to use the coercive power of government to force us to make sacrifices for others against our will.

        1. That’s far too many words to waste on a trollbot.

        2. Need thumbs up button.

      2. P.S. Apparently, you’re conceding that they won’t stop ramming their stupid shit down our throats until we kick them out of office, too?

      3. RALK – you and your “betters policies” are just parasitic spending of societal wealth your “true betters” built up for us generations ago.

      4. Just to be safe, instead of just wearing a mask, you should wear a thick plastic bag over your head, tied tightly with a belt.

        1. Biodegradable, BPA-free plastic bag.

      5. Yet our hearts continue to beat, our lungs breathe, despite your sociopathic bleating.

    2. Progs are fucking scum.

    3. Using the coercive power of government to force us to make sacrifices for the greater good (as progressives authoritarians see it) is what being a progressive an authoritarian is all about.

      There, fixed it for ya.

      Wait, didn’t Ken describe Republicans as “authoritarians”, and that they are the preferred choice for us to vote for? Wait, but maybe those weren’t the “legitimate Republicans”.

      1. You must be a troll, there is no other explanation—every argument you make is in bad faith.

        1. She’s kinda dumb.

        2. I don’t call him Lying Jeffy for nothing.

        3. “every argument you make is in bad faith.”

          I doubt he knows any other way.

        4. Don’t forget Hanlon’s razor. Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

          1. But the stupidity is the primary cause of the malice.
            Fucking inherently inferior imbeciles who exist only because civilization does everything for them.

      2. Wait, didn’t you declare this morning that teachers are experts and we should defer to them as to what to teach the children even if they have to hide those lessons from parents?

    4. Why are they called progressives when their policies are regressive?

      1. Everything about them is false. Their arguments almost invariably depend on lies instead of facts and deception instead of logic. Why shouldn’t their name also be a lie?

        1. I legit can’t think of a single policy debate progs are honest about

    5. “Hopefully, the American people will still have this, school closures, etc., in mind come November of 2022.”

      Despite that, Trump will do his best to help them win it all again.

  10. “Masks and other social distancing requirements were supposed to be temporary measures…”

    I’ve been saying all along that every time someone puts one of those ridiculous muzzles on, it makes it a little less likely that they’ll ever be allowed to take it off.

    1. They were supposed to be prophylactic measures. Who told you they were temporary. Directives always said, “until further notice.”

      1. Measures were originally to “flatten the curve.” Imposed for two weeks. Then extended for two weeks ad nauseam.

      2. Can you even spell “libertarian”? You’re a slaver. What do we tell slavers around here?

    2. No they said as long as case rates remained high.

  11. A bit like Pol Pot wanting everyone to dress alike.

  12. Soave misses the libertarian points again, like most of the country presuming the government will make decisions about how to protect ourselves, rather than presuming individual should take that responsibility and it shouldn’t be left to the government.

    We should be free to:
    Decide to get the vaccine or not
    Decide to wear a mask or not
    Decide to do other things to protect ourselves
    Set the safety rules for people on our property

    If we go someplace with no rules, expect people with covid to be there if you think that endangers you.

    The government is saying, if we’re free to decide to get vaxed or not, then they’ll decide our mask usage, rather than allowing people, the market and our freedom of association to figure it out. Consider, in a free market, people could choose a school that uses a safety protocol they want for their kids.

    Yeah, the government is essentially creating inconvenient rules for the vaxxed to protect the unvaxxed when the unvaxxed could get vaxxed. The point is the government shouldn’t be making those decisions. Besides when the government does it, it’s usually for political purposes, rather than letting people do it for themselves.

    1. ToP mEn!

    2. No, we should NOT be free to decide to wear a mask or get the vaccine. It should be required for everyone who doesn’t have a medical reason not to get it. Sooner or later, this “only me” attitude has got to go away and be replaced by rational and responsible adult behavior.
      Yes, the unvaxxed are making things more difficult for the vaxxed. Tough. Grow up and deal with it.

      1. Whatever happened to those “give me liberty , or give me death “ kind of people.
        We used to admire stuff like that.

        1. Give MidnightMike death to get your liberty.

      2. “the unvaxxed are making things more difficult for the vaxxed.”

        Pure distilled progressivism in one sentence.

      3. If your “vaccination” can’t stop you from getting sick, like those restaurant workers in Georgia, then the unvaccinated aren’t the problem. Sort of like how the CDC shotgunned a flu shot every year as an educated guess on which strains will be the most dominant.

      4. GFY

      5. Sooner or later, your totalitarian pretensions are going to get you killed

      6. I’m sure you’ll fully support setting national speed limits to 25 mph if it means saving just one life? Forcing cars to have breathalyzers? Forcing fatties to hire a nutritionist and personal trainer?

        1. +++

          I love how they have gone full pants shitting on a virus that has <1% mortality on an infected patient pre-vaccine, that they have a vaccine for if they want.

      7. Fear-based decision-making. An essential tool for aspiring slavers. Which part of 99.997% survival do you not understand?

      8. Yes, the unvaxxed are making things more difficult for the vaxxed.

        It actually might be the other way around. Mass-vaccinating with a non-sterilizing vaccine in the middle of a pandemic leads to the forced evolution of…guess what?…variants! And the variants created by the vaxxed factories will be more of a problem for the unvaxxed. Watch this, starting around 23:30: https://www.bitchute.com/video/n48EcTk1RbWw/

      9. Save your breath it only goes in one ear and out the other.

  13. Nobody at the White House briefing announcing the policy was wearing a mask.

    1. They’re superiority makes them naturally immune. Either that, or they’re full of shite and they know it.

  14. TSA gives us “security theatre”

    What would we call this? “health theatre”? “contagion theatre”?

    It’s clearly virtue signaling of some flavor, because it isn’t fucking science.

      1. That may be the sickest article I have read of late. The smarmy approval for playing pretend is nauseating. I almost didn’t read the rest of the article, where he gets to the failures, but I forced myself to… playing pretend about this crap is okay, we just *did it wrong*?

        1. It’s definitely something aimed more towards the bureaucratically-inclined. The crux:

          What matters in a collective response is not achieving some perfectly consistent principle to order all behavior, but just whether the general program helps achieve good enough behavior — good enough to produce a significantly better outcome than if it were not present — while setting limits on itself and balancing against other considerations.

          takes it as a given that something was going to be done in response to COVID; I don’t think that’s off-base. This is a democratic society and there was a groundswell for some manner of intervention.

          So, since it was always going to happen, what policies would maximize both voluntary compliance and effectiveness while minimizing social costs? Because the path we’ve taken obviously wasn’t ideal.

          1. So, since it was always going to happen, what policies would maximize both voluntary compliance and effectiveness while minimizing social costs?

            Thank you for this question. IMO it is the most important question posted in this entire comment section, and nobody yet has bothered to even take a stab at it. Because pretty much no one gives a shit about the actual issue. They just want to bitch and moan and preen and virtue signal.

            On the one hand, you have the anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers who demand the liberty to do whatever the hell they want, without a concern or care to anyone else, without prudence, judgment, or common sense. That is not any sort of enlightened liberty, that is “toddler libertarianism”, the reactionary impulses of a toddler when he’s told he has to eat his vegetables. “I don’t wanna and you can’t make me!”

            And on the other hand, you have people who view liberty only in utilitarian terms, favoring it only for its presumed benefits, but the minute those benefits appear to vanish, then away goes the liberty as well.

            But I will take a stab at your question. I read that article and it was quite good I thought. The author’s point about the utility of theater for its own sake was duly noted. It is much like “leading by example”: the actual achievement is less important than the knowledge that all are committed to the goal.

            If the response to a pandemic is toing to rely primarily on voluntary compliance, then the root of that voluntary compliance has to be a well-educated population that is capable of making these types of judgments in the middle of a pandemic in an informed manner. So the long-term solution has to begin with education. Everyone ought to have solid critical thinking skills, solid media literacy skills, solid understanding of basic science and math and statistics. I am sick and tired of people repeating obvious falsehoods and presenting them as fact, like “the Pfizer vaccine isn’t a ‘real vaccine'” or “I got COVID so the vaccine is unnecessary for me” or worse, the deranged microchip nonsense, or “it’s just the flu” or crap like that. A population that is dumb and ignorant will either be (a) easily led by authorities to dispose of their liberty, or (b) easily fooled by demagogues to dispose of their liberty in another way by refusing simple measures that could have kept them alive.

            Second, there does need to be a solution to the “prisoner’s dilemma” associated with voluntary mitigation measures. Take two businesses, one that wants to do the “right thing” and limit capacity in the establishment to slow the spread of the disease, and another business which doesn’t give a shit about the pandemic and operates at full capacity. Yes the second business’s customers are more likely to get sick and therefore not be repeat customers, but who can blame the business itself for that, and not all of the customers, or some other interaction? The business that wants to do the right thing is economically punished in the marketplace for its virtue. So instead of the government mandating lockdowns of everyone, the government could instead ‘nudge’ all businesses to do the “right thing” to slow the spread of the disease, in terms of perhaps *temporarily* offering incentives, tax rebates, forgivable loans, etc., to businesses that voluntarily comply with these measures. That is using the carrot approach instead of the stick approach. It would be costly, but would it be costlier than the government picking up the tab for all the sick and dead people after the fact? I don’t know.

            Those are two ideas off the top of my head, it would be nice if there could be more discussion on this topic, but I doubt it will occur frankly.

            1. I am sick and tired of people repeating obvious falsehoods and presenting them as fact, like “the Pfizer vaccine isn’t a ‘real vaccine’” or “I got COVID so the vaccine is unnecessary for me” or worse, the deranged microchip nonsense, or “it’s just the flu” or crap like that.

              Two of these four are not like the others. I never cease to be amazed at how little stock certain people place in acquired resistance despite centuries of accumulated knowledge, and 18 months worth of evidence.

              The last is merely an opinion of one’s own risk tolerance and a preference for a life unruled by fear (and frankly for many of us the statistical difference between risk of COVID and flu complications are so low as to be negligible; for children, the evidence indicates that the flu is more dangerous than COVID, and the inability of the public health apparatus to factor that in is one of the biggest reasons for the continued obstinance of skeptics).

              Second, there does need to be a solution to the “prisoner’s dilemma” associated with voluntary mitigation measures.

              This sort of tinkering may have done some good, especially vs. the alternative, but I think it’s all putting the cart before the horse. If you don’t create buy-in among the naturally skeptical up-front then it’s all going to fall apart in the end anyway.

              1. Two of these four are not like the others. I never cease to be amazed at how little stock certain people place in acquired resistance despite centuries of accumulated knowledge, and 18 months worth of evidence.

                Well, because the antibodies from natural infection may not be of the same quality as the antibodies from the vaccine.

                https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-generated-from-covid-19-vaccines-differs-from-an-infection/

                Broadly, natural antibodies from infection may be more effective against the specific strain of the virus that the individual was infected with, but may be less effective against all of the mutations, while the vaccine is more effective broadly against all of the mutations.

                So yes the vaccine is still of benefit to individuals who recovered from COVID.

    1. I would call it fascism. It meets the classical definition.

      1. Well, yes, but there are sub-categories even of that.

      2. It is very far from the classical definition. Read your history books again

        1. You mean your side’s “playbook?”

        2. Wow, you’re right. There it is, “National Socialism”! Government partners with large industries to control the population, like Biden and tech service providers controlling “misinformation”. The historical precedent is shockingly parallel. Thanks for clearing that up!????

      3. Wrong. Go back to your history books.

    2. Mystery science theatre 19

  15. Clearly we must do the things that didn’t work last year, but harder.

    Luckily, last year’s summer peak in hospitalizations was on July 27, so expect the number to start falling fairly quickly. Then everywhere will have their winter spikes and maybe even the idiots will start to understand what’s going on.

    1. “Having lost sight of the objective, we have redoubled our efforts.”

    2. I can guarantee you that the “experts” are still not going to understand that these surges are driven by the weather and will still congratulate themselves for stopping surges that were over by the time their recommendations were implemented.

      My optimistic scenario is that they will eventually learn a bit of proportionality and understand that a 100% increase from the lowest levels of the pandemic is not an emergency. If they can learn to not freak out when deaths are less than peak flu season, I’ll be satisfied.

      1. Yes. It’s endemic and seasonal. Let’s get on with life.

      2. Probably not here though. I think that we will ultimately find that much of the surge is the Delta variant pushing out Alpha withs its roughly doubled infectivity (R0). Over the last 3-4 weeks, Delta has soared from maybe 20% to 80% of the mix nationwide. Luckily, it’s lethality is much lower – with a CFR 1/8-1/10 that of Alpha. (And anyone claiming that it is more lethal is lying, as evidenced by our mortality rates, as well as those of India (where Delta apparently originated) and Great Britain, which got it before we did). The panic right now is based on this lie, that the Delta Variant is much more contagious, and at least as deadly. It isn’t. Deaths are essentially not rising overall, while infections are.

  16. To quote Michael Walsh: “At this point, no one in his right mind would either get the shots or wear a mask. No one with any dignity and true American spirit, that is.”

    Throw the masks in the trash. The Biden admin is going too far and must be opposed with non-conformity and peaceful resistance.

    1. Yes, but I bet right now people are ordering masks on Amazon.

    2. “At this point, no one in his right mind would either get the shots or wear a mask. No one with any dignity and true American spirit, that is.”

      That’s right. Get sick and die from COVID, in order to pwn the libs!

        1. The idea that one should refuse to get the vaccination, as an act of political resistance, is absurd and dangerous.

          1. Yeah, for a disease that you know only kills fatties and old people. Even then most recover. If you’re scared, that’s on you. I know the risks.

            1. Oh bullshit about this whole “I have calmly assessed the risks and have decided on the most prudent course of action for myself” narrative. As your quote above illustrates, for a certain segment of the population, refusing to get vaccinated has nothing to do with level-headed risk assessment and has everything to do with political tribal signaling and jeopardizing the health and lives of everyone around them in a pointless act of “resistance”. Remember how, after Trump was elected, all of these social media idiots proclaimed themselves part of the “resistance” against the dark night of fascism that was supposedly descending on the country? At least their idiocy was limited to just changing their profile pictures. For you all, your act of “resistance” is a little more dangerous than that.

              1. I’m sorry you’re scared.

                1. I’m also right.

                  You are risking your own life and the health and lives of everyone around in your act of “resistance”. This isn’t 1776, there is no revolutionary war, vaccines are not a mark of submission to tyrants. Get over your pointless delusions.

                  1. You’re not right. You don’t get to make decisions for me or anyone and it’s clear you’re ignorant and scared. That’s on you. Wise up.

                    1. Oh I am absolutely right about those with the Michael Walsh point of view on things. To them vaccines represent submission to tyranny and they will refuse to get it for that reason alone. Which is so dumb on so many levels.

                      I’m not ignorant on the matter, and I’m not scared; what I am, is angry that so many people who profess a love of liberty are cheering and celebrating the decision to use that liberty in destructive and stupid ways.

                      If we had legal heroin in this country, how many libertarians would cheer and celebrate for every heroin addict who overdosed and died? “Good for him, he fully exercised his liberty to drug himself to death! Woohoo! Yay for Team Liberty!”

                      In many places, it is legal to drive a motorcycle without a helmet. How many libertarians cheer and celebrate for every motorcycle rider who dies in an accident from head trauma? “Good for him, he exercised his liberty to choose not to wear a helmet, and even though he died, it was a victory for liberty!”

                      No, instead, in these cases, we would appreciate that heroin was legal, that wearing helmets was optional, but we would also counsel people to make wise decisions and to exercise their liberty with prudence and reason. We wouldn’t cheer and celebrate and encourage people to do reckless things with their liberty, especially if there was no purpose to it at all.

                      So go ahead and refuse to get vaccinated, for your stupid tribal reasons, but you shouldn’t expect accolades or cheers. You’re not “resisting tyranny”, you’re just being a dumbass.

                    2. Jeff, you’re refuting arguments no one else is making.

                      You’re like a level 1 call center employee with a script you need to stick to.

                  2. Make up your mind. Are vaccines effective or not? Because if they’re effective, you’re not risking anyone’s life bit your own, and the other unvaccinated people around you, who have also chosen to take that risk.

                    Vaccines have been available, for free, for months now. I assume anyone who hasn’t gotten at this point has accepted the risk, and therefore it’s no longer my responsibility to protect them from their own choices.

                    1. Vaccines have been available, for free, for months now. I assume anyone who hasn’t gotten at this point has accepted the risk, and therefore it’s no longer my responsibility to protect them from their own choices.

                      Nonsense. Radical individualism means foisting your own neuroses on your neighbors, and using government force to make them comply with your preferences.

                    2. He keeps using that word, “individualist.” I do not think it means what he thinks it means.

                    3. Hey nothing says individualist like berating people who make different choices under similar circumstances.

                  3. You’d lower your risk of dying by losing weight. You want others to lower your risk so you can eat like a pig.

                  4. Why does anyone need to drive faster than 25mph? Youre just risking everyone’s life.

              2. It’s understandable to be scared, Jeff. The government, the Democrat party, and the corporate media have been feeding us a lot of horror stories about the virus that, while not internally consistent or remotely reflective of reality, can be scary to people who blindly follow what our self-styled betters tell them to do. Maybe double-masking will get us through it this time.

                1. Double masking has already failed, we need to get ahead of this with quintuple masking, at the least

                  1. Do you care to provide evidence and explain why double masking is also used in ORs?

                    1. Are you suggesting that people running into Target to pick up a few items are in the same environment as an OR doctor or nurse?

                    2. are you *really* asking (I think you are just being an ass, but here you go.. )? its a specific scenario, limited use, limited duration, extreme care taken to not infect the mask with touching it (see hand washing, gowns, gloves, procedures..). Gloves gloves gloves. outer mask changed out as needed.. lastly, materials removed immediately after leaving the operating room..

                      Now: observe masking in public: take from purse/pocket, dirty hands place on face, endlessly adjust… while shopping, touch everything, adjust mask again.. ungloved, touch and pay for items.. while leaving store, remove mask, put back in purse/pocket…
                      (oh, and mask is also fabric not proper OR grade..)

                    3. It helps prevent bacteria from dripping into open wounds.

                    4. A strictly controlled environment of highly trained people, where part of the training is assisting each other with adherence to defined procedures is exactly how analogous to the world at large????

                      Or did you not think any of this through?

                    5. “A strictly controlled environment of highly trained people”

                      That’s what the progressive wants to impose on the citizenry (aka peasants, as the progressive sees them)

                    6. You might want to check your sarcasm meter there chief.

                  2. I suggest people just quit breathing, its the only logical conclusion of preemptive avoidance.

                  3. Twenty 2-layer cloth masks, one for each eye, one for each ear, one over the genitals, one over the arse, 5 pairs of vinyl gloves, rubber booties, and ten BiPOC Lives Matter or Something t-shirts, to be extra special virtue safe.

                  4. Reading below you can see the number of stupid people posting their whataboutisms.
                    Meanwhile the oringinal stupid comment, “Double masking has already failed” goes unsupported.

                    1. So, instead of proving that it works, you go to the example of an OR room which is nothing like the real world.

                      Why didn’t you just link to the article that proves you right?

                    2. Actually, LongTimeListenerFirstTimeCaller answered you just above. Take a look. Also, read this: https://summit.news/2021/07/19/government-advisor-admits-masks-are-purely-comfort-blankets-that-do-virtually-nothing

              3. I have calmly assessed the risks and have decided on the most prudent course of action for myself.

              4. Believe it or not, there are groups of people who have looked at mortality rates, hospitalizations, their social interactions and their health history and concluded tbe risk is low for them. To leap to the conclusion that an individual does it to own libs is anti-reason.

                1. I am not talking about everyone who refuses vaccination. I know there are some out there who refuse the vaccine for solid reasons. I am talking only about that subset of anti-vaxxers who are refusing the vaccine in order to make some political statement.

                  1. So you are mostly concerned with a figment of your imagination.

                    Yeah, we know.

                    1. The narrative said something so he pushes it as fact. He has no independent thought.

                  2. You mean like kamala and biden om their statements last year?

                2. to think that anyone is not getting vaccinated “to own the libs” is just dumb. I know liberals, Biden voters that aren’t vaccinated and aren’t getting it.

                  1. From your article that you quoted:

                    “At this point, no one in his right mind would either get the shots or wear a mask. No one with any dignity and true American spirit, that is.”

                3. It’s chemjeff normal collectivist, so that’s par for the course.

              5. what if we have assessed the risk, deemed it very low, and the non-conformity is just bonus? 🙂

                1. Nope, any non-conformity in unacceptable. To the Radical Individualist Re-Education Camp with you!

                  1. Your non-conformity is for unapproved reasons!

            2. “for a disease that you know only kills fatties”
              More crappola. There is zero epidemiological data to substantiate that claim. The correlation is less than 0.10.

              1. Obesity is a common, serious, and costly chronic disease. Having obesity puts people at risk for many other serious chronic diseases and increases the risk of severe illness from COVID-19.

                https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html

                1. There is NO epidemiological evidence for the CDC statement about obesity.
                  The correlation in the published literature is 0.10.
                  The only comorbidity with sizable (0.30) correlation is chronic kidney disease. If the obese person also has kidney disease, they’re in trouble.

                  1. B-b-b-but…the CDC uses “science”! Are you saying they make proclamations that are not based on facts?! Heresy!

              2. Still having trouble with language are we?

                Hint: It’s not always as rigid as you might wish.

              3. There is zero epidemiological data to substantiate that claim.

                ACKSHULLY, the data on cormobidities related to obesity in COVID deaths is quite high.

                1. Highest risk factor => Age. Next highest risk factor => Obesity.

              4. there’s a ton of data on this. something like 80 percent of serous covid cases are obese people

          2. Yes I can agree to that Jeff – I’m just pointing out the mortality rate is around there

          3. Something about preferring dangerous freedom…

            1. As their dear leader, Karl Marx, taught, freedom is slavery.

            2. The freedom to do what? Not get vaccinated? Yes you have that freedom and you ought to have that freedom. But be honest about the REASONS behind how you choose to exercise that freedom. It’s not about health, it’s not about the teensy weensy risk from the vaccines itself. It’s about tribal signaling and pwning the libs. You’re going to intentionally and deliberately subject yourself, and everyone around you, to a disease because you are cosplaying the role of “resistance fighter against tyranny”.

              1. Why do you care so much about other people’s reasons for not getting vaccinated? It’s none of your fucking business. They either did or they didn’t, and it’s not your problem.

                Go live your life.

                1. “Go live your life.”

                  It would appear the life of a ‘radical’ individualist is mostly spent telling others how to live theirs.

                  1. Collectivist busybody? Yuck.

              2. >>tribal signaling

                in an individualist thread.

              3. The great thing about freedom is you don’t have to justify it, so the reason doesn’t really matter.

                1. The reasons very much DO matter, IF you want others to take your claims of liberty seriously.

                  You do know there is a very real chance we could see mandatory vaccinations, right? It is not just a theoretical possibility.

                  And if your average person views “liberty” as meaning “the freedom to refuse the vaccine in completely stupid and pointless ways” then they are more likely to be in favor of vaccine mandates, because they will be less likely to see the upside in allowing the exercise of everyone’s liberty.

                  1. “You have freedom, but make sure you don’t exercise it or else they’ll take it away”

                    1. And it better be for the approved reasons.

                    2. You have freedom, and you also have a brain. Make sure that when you use the former, you also engage the latter.

                      We have rights and liberty, but to keep them secure, they depend on a general willingness to keep securing them. We generally don’t live next to Pure Libertarians who value liberty for its own sake. For many, liberty is a utilitarian good – they like liberty because of the positive results that it brings. And for this segment, if they view liberty as producing a negative result, they won’t have many qualms in trying to restrict it. So it behooves all of us to use that liberty wisely.

                    3. We have rights and liberty, but to keep them secure, they depend on a general willingness to keep securing them.

                      In order to keep your rights and liberty… do what government asks…

                      Go fuck yourself.

                  2. Freedom exists whether or not you accept their claims.

                    This is just you rationalizing your authority over someone else’s decision. Because you’re a statist.

              4. You talking about exercise is hilarious.

                1. Fat chance he ever does it.

                  1. He would lower his health risks way more than masks if he did.

              5. Has your cranium impacted a solid surface in a violent manner since the election? Can you not recall any of the Democrats protestations regarding Operation Warpspeed? Tribal signaling was unparalleled. It may still be, but at least be honest that it isn’t and wasn’t invented by the people who are practicing it now.

          4. and dangerous.

            Bones heal, chicks dig scars, and the United States of America has the best doctor-to-daredevil ratio in the world.

            I like a little danger in my life; makes it worth living. And since the CDC and the State of MD (among others) decided to take away much of the dangerous things I like to do for over a year and a half, well got to make up for lost time.

          5. Or he understands and chooses his own risk levels while you seemingly demand to set them for him. Because you’re a statist.

          6. Could you remind me what Kamala Harris said about a vaccine developed under the Trump Administration? Perhaps you could remind me what Nancy Pelosi’s position was re: vaccination? What was Joe Biden’s thoughts on the vaccine?

            1. Why don’t you point to where any of them said that they wouldn’t take a COVID vaccine as an act of political resistance against Trump. Go ahead.

              1. Fucking retard.

                “If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I’ll be the first in line to take it, absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I’m not taking it,” Harris said.

                1. LOL

              2. Taking the vaccines might actually be a selfish use of one’s liberty. We have the data that shows:

                1. These vaccines are non-sterilizing, and thus do not prevent infection or transmission
                2. When you use such a vaccine at scale in the middle of a pandemic, you contribute to the evolution of more contagious variants (start at 23:30): https://www.bitchute.com/video/n48EcTk1RbWw/

                You have freedom, and you also have a brain. Make sure that when you use the former, you also engage the latter.

                So perhaps those that refuse the vaccine are, in fact, doing just that.

                1. Oh you have got to be kidding me. That website is looney tunes. It is a conspiracy monger’s dream. You’re going to have to present a more authoritative reference than that before I will take it seriously.

                  1. But you’re a complete fucking moron, so…

      1. I know you know and have the same data everyone else does, yet you still act like Covid is the Spanish Flu. What a joke. If you’re scared of Covid, stay home.

        1. We all have the information, but “individualists” should cede decision making to others.

          1. Nope. I don’t favor mask mandates, I don’t favor vaccine mandates. I DO favor those who value liberty to exercise their liberty with prudence and reason.

            1. You’re subservient, deferential to your betters and all about the collective.

              1. I’m not an idiot who wants to cosplay the role of “heroic freedom fighter” over a fucking vaccine.

                Did you know that the CDC recommends that you brush your teeth every day? Maybe you should stop brushing your teeth as an act of “resistance”.

                1. Yes you are an idiot who is choosing to cosplay and trying to force others to cosplay. There is zero correlation between mask usage and infection vectors.

                2. Didn’t the CDC say that Ivermectin was ineffective last year also? And about that pesky Trump saying hydroxychloroquine was effective for early treatment of Covid. The CDC set that straight didn’t they?

                  1. So perhaps blindly following the CDC’s advice, or blindly opposing the CDC’s advice, aren’t great strategies.

                    1. Yet you are asking to blindly follow their mask policies. Because you’re fucking dumb.

              2. Did you brush your teeth this morning? I bet you did. It’s because you’re subservient, deferential to your betters and all about the collective, right?

                Or, maybe it is because you decided that brushing your teeth was just the right thing to do, regardless of what the CDC recommended, and ridiculous resistance strategies like “deliberately get yourself sick in order to fight tyranny!” is dumb?

                1. As I said, you are a troll. Dumbass straw man, bad faith arguments

                2. This was a dumb point the first time you made it.

            2. Nobody cares what you value.

          2. “We all have the information, but “individualists” should cede decision making to others.”

            Obedience is not enough. Belief must be ceded as well.

      2. You are boring, and an asshole.

    3. *”mostly peaceful” resistance.

      Seriously – where’s the fucking line where it gets kinetic?
      Because we apparently haven’t hit that line yet, and every time we say they haven’t crossed the line, it gets pushed further.
      At some point, you’re left with nothing.

  17. Seems the SCIENCE is just never settled, ay?

    1. They need to get the Climastrologists on this. They’ll settle the SCIENCE right quick.

      1. they are better at consensus than science

    2. YOu don’t even know what that even means. “Seems the SCIENCE is just never settled, ay?”

      1. Look in the mirror.

    3. Science is a process that hopefully iterates to true knowledge vs. throwing proverbial darts at a dartboard, hoping something will make a difference. No scientist knows why viruses eventually burn themselves out and the current crop of CDC pretenders doubly so.

  18. So this would seem to indicate that the ‘ruling class’ believe that the only thing that protects against COVID are masks, when in reality they are not actually effective at all with about 100 years of studies to back that up.

    To all the people who were basically coerced into getting a vaccination PURELY to be ‘allowed’ to show their face in public, the government isn’t going to let you off the hook so easily.

    Hilariously, people are blaming their EMPLOYERS for mandating the things the government is making them enforce. Turns out people really are exactly as retarded as the government thinks they are. At this point, they could put warning labels on bottled water that it may cause cancer and people would die in the streets of dehydration.

    1. You can’t comply your way out of tyranny.

      1. You spoke the truth so purely, I thought I heard a choir of angels singing “Ahhhhhh!”

    2. Hilariously, people are blaming their EMPLOYERS for mandating the things the government is making them enforce.

      Which private employer is the government mandating that their employees get vaccinated?

      1. Grocery stores, malls, restaurants.
        You knew that though.

        1. The government is mandating that private grocery store employees get vaccinated? This is news to me. Do you have a link?

          1. Fucking retard.

            According to Newsom and the State Departments of Health and Human Services and Human Resources, California will soon require all state employees and health care workers — both public and private — to verify their vaccination status, either through a vaccine card or vaccine code, which is issued by the state.

            https://deadline.com/2021/07/california-vaccine-mandate-verification-1234799994/#!

    3. You joke, but I bet there are plenty of people who would die of dehydration before drinking from a bottle not clearly labeled “BPA-free”

  19. When clothing companies are making “masks” we know they’re useless. Even medical masks are largely useless since people routinely touch them without disinfecting.

    The CDC is doing this because as Dem partisans they see it as a winning political issue.

    1. Since you can’t get COVID via touch, I doubt that is the problem. More like, if an N95 mask is worn correctly, it is difficult to breathe through and uncomfortable. So, nearly everyone who has not been properly trained is going to screw it up.

  20. It’s never going to stop, is it? It’s officially going to keep going on forever. I was really hoping once Orange Hitler was defeated the powers that be would dial back on the insanity, but it seems like defeating the deplorables wasn’t the goal after all. There is no master plan. No one’s in charge. There’s no scheme or end game. Just an eternity of this shit.

    1. I’m shocked Biden hasn’t simply declared victory. That means something else is the goal — and it can’t be good for us.

      1. Too many people were talking about inflation. We need to gin up some more Wu Flu panic.

        1. Rope a dope

      2. Yea, wonder what that could be…
        They should call it something inspiring, like “Great Reset” and use a catchy slogan like “build back better”

      3. they have to find out how far they can push the overton window of tolerable fascistic government behaviour… its scientific really. once they get enough push back of a certain kind they will quit pushing.

        mind you – they wont move the window back…they will have just established new norms guiding govt directives that we can expect from the government

    2. I think too many people legitimately bought into the apocalypse-mongering, so they can’t really scale back the monster they unleashed. Fortunately, that just gives them the go-ahead for an eternity of micromanaging our lives.

    3. Now you’re getting it.

    4. The balloonheads actually voting and running the government these days sincerely believe that a risk-free, harm-free world can be engineered into existence. This basically boils down to a lot of emotionally stunted people thinking that governments and businesses should have the same socio-economic environment as their childhood home.

      It almost makes me wish COVID was an actual Black Plague so these assholes would know what real, actual suffering was like. Only this time it would be the cult of I Fucking Love SCIENCE! and not the Catholic Church that had its dogmas undermined.

      1. I’d rather live under a bunch of pussy worryworts than Trump worshipping authoritarians.

        1. We haven’t had either. We have had authoritarians that have turned weak folks into pussy worrywort Karens.

          1. Trying to overturn an election is pretty authoritarian in my opinion Gumby.

            Now do one of your patented zingers!

            I love your zany takes on our modern world!

            1. The Mormon Tabernacle Choir are some of your favorite zingers, no?

              1. You’re gonna have to explain that one because I don’t get it?

                1. Why didn’t Kermit the frog and Miss Piggy ever have kids?
                  Ereptile dysfunction.

                  1. Hahaha!

                    It’s funny and makes you think!

            2. Which election overturn attempt are you referring to?
              Gore v. Bush? (OH look! Chads can be pregnant too!)
              Clinton v. Trump? (She Persisted!)
              Abrams v. Kemp? (I won!)
              I’m truly interested!

              1. When the SC ruled in Bush’s favor Gore conceded and as VP certified Bush’s victory.

                Hilary conceded the following day.

                I don’t live in Georgia so I don’t care about their Governor.

                Trump(and his traitor followers) are still claiming he won. It went through the courts. Biden has been President for months.

                Stop being sore losers.

                You only look foolish trying to compare Traitor Trump to Hilary and Gore who knew when to concede.

                1. and it is still true that states illegally changed their voting laws, thus invalidating enough votes to have the election in trump’s favor. the us constitution states that only the state legislatures can set election law — even in a pandemic. the actual fact is that laws were changed by governors & election officials and this is illegal. are you ok with our elections being corrupted in this way?

            3. To be authoritarian, one does not side against authority, one is in authority… This is why your in-group keep up with the mewling about insurrection and traitors, you are lickspittles for those power, or, shorter for the slow, you are authoritarians.

              1. Trump was in power when he tried to overturn the election.

                Try again.

      2. “This basically boils down to a lot of emotionally stunted people thinking that governments and businesses should have the same socio-economic environment as their childhood home.”

        ++ excellent description of our resident leftist authoritarians

    5. We’re all the deplorables.
      Are you starting to get it?

      1. Yes you are very deplorable Nardz.

        The southern US is a deplorable shithole. Yet you backwards hicks take pride in it.

        You’re are backwards.

        1. “You’re are backwards.”

          1. You got me there.

            Boy is my face red.

            1. So is your neck.

              1. I’ve heard this before and I don’t get it.

                Why would my name be KillAllRednecks if I was a redneck?

                Hell I’m outside a lot, but I wear a turtleneck even when it’s over 100 degrees. You can’t be too careful.

                1. Because you don’t like yourself.

                  1. A. You don’t know me. So how can you comment on my self esteem?

                    B. The place I’m from is known for being unfriendly to Rednecks.

                    Stick to comedy Gumby. Because when it comes to armchair psychoanalysis and politics you leave a lot to be desired.

                    1. Thanks for confirming.

                    2. What’s that supposed to mean?

                      What do you call a mean ole douche?

                      Gumby!

  21. I’ll concede that I don’t visit this site much anymore, so maybe I’ve missed the relevant articles, but Reason‘s response to the gross abuses by government during the past 15 months seems…well, a bit muted for a self-styled “libertarian” publication.

    1. Oh, but it looks like they have introduced a “Mute User” button. Getting on board the censorship train, i guess.

      1. Mike Hihn got muted too.

    2. As the mainstream moves left, Reason moves right along with it. They don’t want to get left behind.

      1. Cocktail parties and whatnot.

        1. Shrinking industry and dismal career prospects.

          So they toe the line and hope to not get cancelled.

  22. Here, Here! If those who do not get vaccinated are willing to get the new variant, let them, it’s all on them, why penalize those who fell in line and did what they were told blindly!!!! I’m not vaccinated and I’m not going to so if I get the flu and I die from it, so be it, you have 1 less person in this world to worry about, I have no care in the world whether you feel sorry for me or not. Asking people to mask up was a dry run and now they think you will all follow again. Good luck with that!!!

  23. So the CDC went anti-vaxx.

  24. Do the immigrants flooding the southern border have to wear masks for entry? I’m just trying to understand the new rules here….

    1. They wear bandanas.

      1. racist!

  25. Here’s a proper libertarian response to this BS, reason should take notes:

    https://www.theepochtimes.com/americans-choose-freedom-and-take-off-the-mask_3919787.html

    1. Here’s another, simpler one: Fuck off, slaver

      1. Very succinct.

  26. The government has done a terrible job of explaining how masks are effective, and this leads many internet “scientists” to simplistically claim that “masks are useless.” But to understand how and why masks are helpful, the CDC should explain the concept of “viral load,” and should tell people that masks benefit the wearer, not just those around him.

    It’s all about risk. The key to reducing the risk of getting the virus is to practice strategies that will reduce the viral load, because the less amount of virus particles you come into contact with, the less risk you have of either catching the disease or of getting a severe form of it. Coming into contact with 1,000 particles will produce a very different outcome than coming into contact with a million particles. The danger is in the dose. Masks can filter out a majority of viral particles, reducing the viral load. They don’t filter out all, but getting a lower dose of the virus – a lower viral load – can reduce the severity of the disease if you do catch it.

    That’s the bottom line: reduce the viral load through social distancing and masks. Neither of these strategies will necessarily prevent you from getting the virus – but they can lower your risk of getting a severe case by reducing the viral load. To put it another way: wearing a helmet while bicycling may not stop you from having an accident or getting hurt, but it does lower your risk of severe head trauma. Everyday we do dozens of things to lower our risk of harm, knowing full well that we cannot eliminate all danger. But even lowering risk is better than doing nothing. Wear the mask for your own self-protection and self-interest, regardless of what the CDC says. It’s just common sense.

    1. That’s the bottom line: reduce the viral load through social distancing and masks.

      While strenuously ignoring HOW people are wearing their masks.

    2. I think most people understand the concept of viral load.

      There are conflicting studies on the efficacy of mask wearing.

      If you want to wear a mask, do it. Individuals are free to make that choice for themselves.

      1. You’re correct; most people wear masks incorrectly so that they provide no protection at all to themselves

        1. Pretty wearing them incorrectly it makes it worse….just like everybody understood in March 2020.

        2. Even when worn correctly there’s no clarity on whether they make any statistical difference.

          1. According to the CDC, for everything except the Communist Chinese Virus:
            “Unvaccinated Asymptomatic Persons, Including Those at High Risk for Influenza Complications:
            No recommendation can be made at this time for mask use in the community by asymptomatic persons, including those at high risk for complications, to prevent exposure to influenza viruses”

            1. Well that doesn’t fit the narrative!

    3. We’ve been masking for 18 months. Also: hiding, distancing, and now vaxxing. And the virus is still with us.

      So your answer is: do moar, harder?

      LOL.

    4. So, since masking increases viral load, you are suggesting that no one, outside a medical facility, where masks are not worn for a short time, then replaced, should be masking?

    5. The danger is in the dose. Masks can filter out a majority of viral particles, reducing the viral load.
      Back to back falsehoods.

    6. If you’re still wearing a mask after getting vaccinated then you have no business condescending to anyone about their own evaluation of risk.

      1. Wrong again. Vaccinated persons can still become infected. Many of thos infections will be asymptomatic, but the person can spread the virus to you. You should prefer that she is wearing a mask.

        1. Why do I need to care about getting infected if I won’t be sick? This obsession with raw positive test counts is idiotic.

          Are you one of those idiots who is going to wear a mask for the rest of his life?

        2. So you’re telling us that the vaccines don’t work this whole time?

    7. The assumption that your qualitative preference for safety is more important than my qualitative preference for freedom has no authoritative basis–in science or anywhere else.

    8. The government has done a terrible job of explaining how masks are effective…It’s just common sense.

      Why would the government need to explain if it is just common sense?

      many internet “scientists”

      But not you, you’re one of those real “scientists”.

      1. If scientists weren’t there to tell us to exit a burning building, how would we know it was time to leave?

    9. The government’s changing narratives has damaged their credibility on COVID and they have no one to blame but themselves. At this point I trust their advice the same I would trust an Ouiji board.

    10. I’m pretty sure most people that died from a bicycle accident would have still died without the helmet.

    11. The government has done a terrible job of explaining how masks are effective… Masks can filter out a majority of viral particles, reducing the viral load.

      Oh, good. You sound like know the answer to this question that I have yet to see answered when I ask it:

      Won’t the virus particles and the moisture they were carried out of the airways in reach steady state with regard to being collected in the mask, and then virus particles in would equal virus particles out given that the mask can’t actually filter virus sized particles?

      masks benefit the wearer

      The only RCT tried found that not to be true. Again, as an expert, perhaps you can answer what power of a mask stops sub-micron viruses from going wherever the air goes.

    12. That’s the bottom line: reduce the viral load through social distancing and masks. Neither of these strategies will necessarily prevent you from getting the virus – but they can lower your risk of getting a severe case by reducing the viral load.

      You realize this is based off of pseudoscience from the early 1900s, right?

      1. No, it doesn’t understand that a disease will multiply in the host organism, and that a small initial infection can still be a serious matter, it seems. But, not one of those internet ‘scientists,’ so there’s that. Also doesn’t understand mask filtration capability based on cloth porousness and vapor/droplet size, but, hey, who’s quibbling? Only 20 more years to flatten the curve, fellow serfs!

    13. Even accepting the validity of your factual statements an is is not an ought.

      Risk benefit analysis is an individual activity. Any claim otherwise is overtly authoritarian.

      So, fuck off slaver.

    14. Ok dumbass here is a direct quote from a WHO document published in 2019.

      OVERALL RESULT OF EVIDENCE ON FACE MASKS
      1. Ten RCTs were included in the meta-analysis, and there was no evidence that face masks are effective in reducing transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.

      apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/329438/9789241516839-eng.pdf

    15. Maybe it’s just me, but I’m wondering how something the size of an aerosolized virus, that you would need an electron microscope to see, can be stopped by a piece of fabric from Michael’s. I mean, the fabric doesn’t stop your breath from exiting (cuz, you know, you would die), and the virus is in your breath, so how does it stop the virus? Isn’t it like throwing a marble through a chain link fence? And if it DOES stop the virus particles, and they get all stuck in your mask, doesn’t that just increase your chances of increasing your OWN viral load and making yourself sicker, since you are continuously breathing in the virus? Which is a good segue, doesn’t viral load refer to the virus’ replication inside your body?

    16. “Wear the mask for your own self-protection and self-interest, regardless of what the CDC says. It’s just common sense.”

      Except, I’m vaccinated, so it doesn’t really matter how much of a viral load I get. Bring it on. More virus for my body to murder to crap out of.

    17. Sorry. For most people, mask wearing increases, not decreases, viral load. Yes, masks might be effective, if worn as health care professionals are taught to do. The are constantly changing their masks, often every 10-15 minutes, and are trained not to adjust them without clean gloves. But that isn’t how masks are worn by most people. Not even close. So what you have is viral buildup over time, which you are forced to rebreath.

      It’s worse for kids, who are even worse about masking discipline. Their masks tend to be scary Petri dishes in short order, which, of course, why the teachers’ unions are demanding that their students be masked before they will go back to work – and not surprisingly, the Biden Administration seems perfectly happy with that.

  27. Masks today, masks tomorrow, masks forever.

  28. Critical Mask Theory

  29. At this point, after 18 months of watching my fellow human beings react to this virus in ways that run the gamut from neurotic to medievally superstitious to downright evil, I’m beginning to wonder how good of an idea it is to defeat this virus.

  30. To borrow a phrase from my Jewish friends…..

    NEVER AGIN

  31. Midterms are less than 16 months away.

    Can’t wait.

  32. Sweden is doing fine, even though few people are wearing masks. Japan isn’t, even though most people are wearing masks. What evidence does the Center for Democrat Control have that masks are effective at stopping the spread of viruses? And why is anyone allowing these power-hungry, politically motivated bureaucrats to set policy?

    1. Politicians love the layer of cover it gives them. “Don’t blame me, just following The Science!”

    2. Have you ever watched what many Japanese wear? Many use a bottom supported half face shield that actually spread aerosols more effectively

      1. Uh, the virus is an airborne one, not aerosol.

        1. Huh, do you even know what an aerosol is? do you have any idea whatsoever what airborne means?
          It means carried on droplets and on aerosols and suspended particulates. But people don’t generally breathe out particulates

      2. Have yo ever observed what many Americans wear, or how they wear them????

        Your arguments are as mendacious as they are obvious.

  33. Once again. Did anyone really believe the government would give this back?

    1. Some people actually believe if you give a bully your lunch money, they’ll leave you alone.

      1. They do leave you alone.
        Until you have more lunch money.

  34. Mask mandates are the new helmet laws.

  35. What the authorities are mostly ignoring is that most, if not all, of the surge in COVID-19 is the result of the much more infectious (but almost an order of magnitude less deadly) Delta variant very rapidly pushing out out the other variants. In the last 2-3 weeks, Delta has soared from maybe 20% of new cases to maybe 80%. Delta has an R0 (infectivity) roughly twice that of Alpha, while it’s CFR (Case Fatality Rate) is between 1/8 and 1/10 of Alpha. Delta has essentially the infectivity of measles, and the lethality of the seasonal flu.

    This is a good thing. This is a good part of why epidemics (and pandemics) typically die out, with the more infectious, but Las deadly, mutations pushing out the original. Keep in mind that if you survive the Delta variant (with a CFR roughly that of the seasonal flu), you are very unlikely to catch the Alpha variant, and if you do, it is highly unlikely to be fatal.

    How can you catch COVID-19 after having been “vaccinated”. Because what we are being vaccinated with is not a true vaccine. It does not contain any real antibodies, as would have been the case if you had actually caught COVID-19 earlier. What you are getting is a sensitivity to the (hopefully) unique SARS-CoV-2 spike. This is supposed to allow you to respond more quickly to presence of SARS-CoV-2 spikes, but your body still doesn’t have its antibodies circulating in your body. What that means is that you may still be able to catch COVID-19, but if you do, it is likely to be much less dangerous.

    1. “(but almost an order of magnitude less deadly)”
      Shame! Bruce that statement is dead wrong.
      In countries in which Delta predominates and which vaccinations are low the case fatality rate is 2%.

      1. You seem to forget we are half vaccinated, with the most vulnerable fully vaccinated. If the vast majority are asymptomatic or feel lousy for 48 hours it effectively doesn’t matter. Do we close down the country for the flu–no, that would be stupid. And the remainder who are hospitalized or pass, well, it is their choice and risk they bear. If delta gets worse rational actors can and will reevaluate their risks.

        1. Your is a different matter than Bruce’s lie.
          By the way the daily CFR in the US is climbing to 3% that is 30x the risk of influenza

          1. Also you should probably use IFR

          2. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

            Even going by 1.8% CFR you’re really bending words to cause panic.

            1. The problem with that article is that deaths lag infections, by necessity. The John Hopkins fatality numbers for the US are for a infectious from several weeks ago – when Alpha cases still predominated over Delta.

          3. My lie? Let’s wait a week or two. CFR is going to go up, down, or stay the same, as Delta has pushed out Alpha over the last 3 or so weeks. My bet is down. Way down, with a CFR closer to .2-.3 than the current 2.0.

      2. Don then why didn’t india have death numbers 4 times as high as our rate wouldn’t they have needed like 20k deaths a day at peak or some such number around there to make your statement true?

        1. When you do math you actually have to work the entire problem.
          The Indian CFR is now 2% Prior to the Delta variant taking hold in March it was less than 1%.
          Their CFR has nothing to do with the number of cases in the US.
          Next question

          1. So they’ve had less cases of a highly infectious variant than the US. Please go on.

    2. There is less risk in getting the delta variant than the vaccine, as the vaccine carries many unknowns.

      1. Wow! I pity your kids

    3. “Because what we are being vaccinated with is not a true vaccine. It does not contain any real antibodies”

      If that is your definition of “true vaccine” then no vaccine is a true vaccine, as none of them contain antibodies. Most vaccines (including the J&J Covid vaccine) contain inactivated or weakened version of the virus, this prompts your body to begin producing its own antibodies. The mRNA vaccines cause cells to produce the spike protein, which also prompts your body to produce antibodies.

    4. You seem to forget we are half vaccinated, with the most vulnerable fully vaccinated. If the vast majority are asymptomatic or feel lousy for 48 hours it effectively doesn’t matter. Do we close down the country for the flu–no, that would be stupid. And the remainder who are hospitalized or pass, well, it is their choice and risk they bear. If delta gets worse rational actors can and will reevaluate their risks.

  36. Won’t be funny when dems’ worst dreams come true and their policies lead to a legit right wing strong man. They have it coming though.

  37. Without arguing for or against, this Reason article misses the point of the desire to mask the vaccinated. It is not solely to protect those who make the idiotic choice to remain unvaccinated. It is, instead, out of fear that if the unvaccinated and vaccinated continue to churn the virus around, a variant will develop that can easily breakthrough the vaccine.

    Let’s at least admit to ourselves that the possibility of such a thing exists. Then we can discuss the merits of reacting to that possibility in various ways (or not at all).

    My personal druthers would be requiring masks for people who cannot produce proof of vaccination. Proof could be a voluntary national database (or proof from vaccine providers, which is currently available now, anyways). If a vaccinated person does not want to register, then fine….they will be presumed unvaccinated and have to mask up.

      1. Aye. Nothing like cowardice, fear of other peoples’ liberties, and being a busybody to bring out those crypto-totalitarian tendencies. I will submit, a national registry based on irrational fear is a bad idea. Slaver indeed.

    1. ……all without any proof at all the masks even do anything, and knowing that the vaccinated can still spread the virus.

      Congratulations, you have accomplished nothing but creating more division.

    2. Just go get a booster and stop worrying about what everyone else is doing for once in your life. I’m sure all those extra spike proteins from a third shot will give you 110% immunity.

    3. “My personal druthers would be requiring masks for people who cannot produce proof of vaccination. ”

      My personal druthers would be to shoot anyone advocating this in the face.

      1. Any surprise despite wanting to scream “Nazi!” and “Fascist!” at everyone who disagrees with them, leftists are essentially arriving at “racial discrimination is good and just” and “show me your papers”.

        1. Confession via projection

      2. Can I sign up for your news letter?

    4. I miss the time we used to have immune systems.

      1. Folks are working to end qualified immunity.

    5. To reduce confusion, maybe we could get a serial number. And just tattoo it on the forearm so it can be shown at any time. Maybe make everyone take a train ride for a shower after getting it.

      1. Oh good, Marjorie Taylor Greene decided to show up in the Reason comment section.

        No, dumbass, the Holocaust is not at all like wearing a mask.

    6. Would you proof of vaccine be a yellow six pointed star for the vaccinated or the unvaccinated to wear?

      1. And I’m getting my vaccine on Thursday so no I am not against vaccines.

      2. Oh good lord people. Can we stop with the histrionic comparisons?

        Is a measles vaccination card equivalent to the Holocaust?
        Is a driver’s license equivalent to the Holocaust?
        Is a passport equivalent to the Holocaust?
        Is a Social Security Number equivalent to the Holocaust?
        Is an IRS Form 1040 equivalent to the Holocaust?

        “Maybe people should show proof of vaccination in lieu of wearing a mask…”
        “WHAT? YOU WANT TO MURDER THEM LIKE HITLER DID TO THE JEWS????”

        C’mon people get a fucking grip. Mask mandates are a bad idea but they’re also not the fucking Holocaust.

        Comparing it to the Holocaust just makes the pro-liberty side seem even more unhinged and paranoid than they already appear.

        1. Now apply your same logic to voting. Is asking for ID too much?

          1. Where on the planet did this idea come up that I oppose voter ID? I DON’T OPPOSE VOTER ID. I HAVE NEVER OPPOSED VOTER ID. I SUPPORT MAKING CITIZENS SHOW VOTER ID IN ORDER TO VOTE.

            No it is not too much.

            And voter ID is ALSO not the fucking Holocaust.

            God damn sometimes you people are just too much.

            Maybe you should actually read what I write, instead of just glossing over my words and inserting “words of a stereotypical liberal progressive” as a substitute instead.

            It just pisses me off sometimes.

            1. No, they’ll move on to the mass democide after enough of the population has shown itself to be as craven and obedient as you.

        2. And it was a fucking joke BTW. Jokes tend to be hyperbolic if you hadn’t noticed.

    7. If pubic health officials actually worried about stopping a new variant, they would stop vaccinating 12 year olds for which there is evidence their body kills the virus before it can hit maximum infectivity and start aggressively shipping out vaccine to the parts of the world where where COVID is running rampant. By the way public health officials are acting, it is pretty clear they are all waving the middle finger at the global implications of their decisions.

  38. Why would you require masks for the unvaccinated? If you are vaccinated you have immunity. Never mind that data on efficacy of masks is unclear at best.

    1. Masks for the unvaccinated are just the Mark of Shame. The progs have already demostrated that they don’t actually care if unvaccinated people die. In fact, unvaccinated people dying is funny for them.

      1. They’ll continue saying “I told you so” right up until it becomes obvious that the jab is worse than covid.

      2. Your words are the marks of shame.

        1. Lame.

          Also, fuck off, slaver.

          1. Seems to be the only way to respond to those types otherwise it’s just a pithy comment ala Tony style.

        2. “Your words are the marks of shame.”

          Yours are those of a cowardly piece of shit.
          Fuck off and die, slaver.

        3. GFY

  39. This is mostly about the Administration having a defense if the variants get out of control. “Well, we did everything we could…”
    Even if things calm down, cases drop (as they appear to be on the verge of doing), they can still appear to be on top of the issue.
    It’s about appearances.

  40. So let me get this straight. In the very unlikely chance that a vaccinated person gets a breakthrough infection, they could theoretically, however unlikely, transmit it to an unvaccinated person. So the CDC’s response to something that’s highly unlikely to happen is to have the vaccinated person wear porous cotton masks that have never been demonstrated to be effective outside a lab to keep a person safe who’s chosen not to be vaccinated for whatever reason. Does this strike anyone else as the convoluted thought process of a bureaucrat and not the logic of a scientist?

    1. The porous cotton masks may prevent air-borne particles from reaching someone else if the person wearing the mask coughs or sneezes and the person at risk is right in front of them facing the person with the mask.

      Maybe a 50% risk reduction at most. However, it is allergy season and some people do a lot of sneezing.

    2. “In the very unlikely chance that a vaccinated person gets a breakthrough infection”
      Not so unlikely (Have a look at ttps://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/news/more-residents-at-sonoma-countys-largest-homeless-shelter-test-positive-fo/)
      “they could theoretically,”
      They can actually
      “however unlikely”
      not at all unlikely
      “transmit it to an unvaccinated person”
      Yup! who can become deadly ill.

      1. That’s on them. And there is no evidence that masks, used as they have been by the general population, do anything to reduce COVID-19 infections. More likely just facial Petri dishes.

  41. My column this week:
    highwayshopper.com Vol. 46, No. 29 July 28, 2021 page 2
    Wait for the July 28 issue to go online probably before end of today July 27.

    Indepth discussion of chances if not vaccinated:
    “If you don’t get vaccinated, will you get COVID?
    “I think the best answer we can give right now is… probably. Odds are, eventually you’ll get it — perhaps from a currently circulating variant, perhaps from a future variant.”
    Open this link to read the entire in-depth analysis:
    Info: shpr.fyi/infectimmune

    Anti-vaxers being herded into box canyon:
    We’re all sick of hearing about COVID and trying to deal with the confusing and infinitely self-contradictory dictates about masking. I don’t want to write about it any more! But one fact we can’t avoid:
    The large majority of the new infections, hospitalizations and deaths now are among the unvaccinated.
    Relative to the rest of the pandemic, the nationwide numbers of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths are low—they’re far below numbers seen back in April of 2020.
    But rates of cases among the unvaccinated in some places rival those seen at the heights of the pandemic. And areas with low vaccination coverage are seeing surges.
    The unvaccinated are being herded- not by government but by the teeny-weeny virus itself- into a box canyon—in a few months nearly all new infections, hospitalizations and deaths will be among the unvaccinated.
    Who wants to be in that sick box canyon?
    Anti-vaccination opinions are not conservative—the best way to “conserve” our lives of yesteryear with regard to COVID is to get free of the threat of COVID by getting vaccinated!
    And then forget it and get back to your life!
    Jesus said (Matthew 7:3): “Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?”
    Get vaccinated!
    Info: shpr.fyi/antivaxbox

    1. Is this a bot?

      1. Forget it jake, it’s bot-town.

        1. China flu town?

    2. Who wants to live in a totalitarian box canyon?

  42. 1. People are conditioned that doing nothing is bad. Herbert Hoover lost the 1932 presidential election, because he did nothing about the Depression, even though, in retrospect, doing nothing would have gotten us out of the Depression by 1937.

    2. Doctors are taught in medical school to practice defensive medicine. If a public health official, federal, state, or local, were to be lenient with advice for the public, and cases and deaths rose, some class-action lawyer would try to get past government immunity. If a lawyer finds a judge who thinks he has a case, then the taxpayers are on the hook for the settlement.

    3. Doctors are far more cautious than other professionals and service providers. As a lawyer, I’ve been asked what happens if a person skips jury duty. I say that as I lawyer, I must encourage you to show up or arrange for another service date. But most county court systems won’t send the sheriff out to haul you in.

    On the other hand, if your BP is much above 120/80, no doctor will say to just don’t lose your temper or run more than a 5K. He will lecture while writing out a prescription.

  43. Got vaccinated, so no more masks for me. Rochelle can take her mask and shove it straight her useless ass. And 1,200,000 people die yearly of cancer/heart disease, but we don’t wreck the country trying to prevent those diseases. Not only that, but the vast majority of those dying of the Chinese flu have at least one co-morbidity. Sorry, no more trust and credibility in government, law enforcement, or the judiciary at ANY level now.

  44. Some of the largest risks with COVID are things people do to themselves. It has a low death rate, but honestly it would have been even lower if the population in general wasn’t weak, flabby, screen-staring cattle.

    People that over-eat, are obese, smokers, and have conditions associated with obesity (high lipids, HTN, DM2) are mostly the ones dying. Instead of highlighting this or even really mentioning it, they just scream “put on your cloth mask that likely doesnt work!!!”. It is a joke at this point.

  45. I’ll continue to respect whatever business owners that I decide to give my money to want for their buildings. Other than that, mask is and will remain off. Ill happily smile at proggy Karen as she walks by me in the grocery store with her side-eye.

  46. This is from the American Lung Association website:
    “Q: Is the Delta variant more deadly?
    While an increase in infections alone is troubling and can lead to more deaths—both through the increase in cases and by overwhelming the health system—early research suggests Delta is possibly more dangerous than the Alpha variant and twice as likely to lead to hospitalization.”

    I’m doing what the other buy said. If a business asks for mask wearing I’ll do so. I’m not wearing one outside ever again (unless there is wildfire smoke). The only time I’d wear one inside is if it was a crowded indoor setting during a local outbreak.

    1. If a business asks for mask wearing I’ll do so. go someplace else.

    2. Ironically the CDC warns that cloth masks don’t help against wildfire smoke.

  47. Fake pandemic, fake election, fake president, fake free speech, fake principles, fake racism, fake climate crisis, fake poverty

    1. and for you, fake brains.

  48. The Governor of Georgia need to find an outbreak in the CDC headquarters and quarantine the entire place for 40 years.
    For the children.

  49. You really didn’t think they’d let the little kiddies go back to school and frighten all the teachers to death do you? Demanding that everyone wear a mask is just cover for the fact that they’re demanding the kiddies wear masks and the reason they’re demanding the kiddies wear masks is because the teachers unions are demanding it. There’s no science here, it’s purely politics. And you know goddamn well in the teacher’s union strongholds, they’re not going back to school regardless.

    1. In a few months Reason will have an article regarding a teacher that kicked a student out of a virtual class for not wearing his mask. And Robbie will weave Trump into the teacher’s defense.

  50. There is just unbounded, extraordinary stupidity on display here; both in the article and comments. There is a new, very contagious variant. It will make some fully vaccinated people sick, it will make some very contagious to others. Additionally, if everyone is masked, businesses don’t have to try to sort the unvaccinated from the vaccinated. It is a small, small price to pay for moving past this vaccine. But, from the very beginning we have been profoundly stupid in our response to Covid19 which is why we have the highest death and infection rates of any major economy. If we had done as well as Canada we would have 1/3rd the rates. And if we had done as well as S. Korea we would have less than 14,000 deaths rather than 625,000. So, why be any less stupid now. Let’s not wear our masks.

    1. It is a small, small price to pay for moving past this vaccine. Moved past it some time ago.

    2. We long ago ended this charade and it’s been a joy not having to participate in the mass psychosis. Life went on, and that’s how it works. The notion that 2 weeks to 2 months to 2 years of this is somehow going to end is a delusion. You have to end it by ignoring bad advice from government bureaucrats who don’t care if you really live or die.

      Honestly anyone parroting the bullshit from fed lifers deserves what they get. Don’t be a slave.

    3. Keep it up, bitch, and see what it gets you

    4. Eat shit and die you stupid fucking progressive busybody.

    5. The mask did wonders in Japan.

    6. Um, no. We have the highest mortality rate because we have the highest comorbidy rate. Mortality rate is directly linked to underlying population health. Know what South Korea’s obesity rate is, by chance? 33% of their population is overweight or obese. 70% of the US population is overweight or obese. Yep, that’ll do it.

      1. Wait just a minute. Progressives above assured us that these comorbidities didn’t matter. Which I thought odd, since if they didn’t matter, they wouldn’t be comorbidities.

        1. That’s because they didn’t understand the meaning of the term “comorbidities.”

    7. If you believe anything the government, the CDC, or the FDA tell you, you are as foolish as the frog in the boiling water. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. Stop wasting yours by believing these lies.

  51. I hope a lot of people go beserk when asked to put on a masks .

  52. Um, no. We have the highest mortality rate because we have the highest comorbidy rate. Mortality rate is directly linked to underlying population health. Know what South Korea’s obesity rate is, by chance? 33% of their population is overweight or obese. 70% of the US population is overweight or obese. Yep, that’ll do it.

  53. Maybe electing the Party of Fear was a mistake.

    1. Both Parties of Fear? For once you’re right.

    2. Democrats (sic) are the party of death.

  54. Sheer utter madness. It like we are living in a George Orwellian dystopia.

    1. We are living in Nazi Germany and Communist China combined. Murder millions of pre-born human beings and set up the black race as the superior race. Take control of all of education, the media, a political party, the courts, all religions, and all government bureaucracies, lie about everything, censor anyone who dares tell the truth, encourage armies of violent, ignorant, hate-filled, idiots to do the bidding of the tryants, and use them to destroy the businesses, the livelihoods, and the ability to find gainful employment who are your enemies.

  55. I’m vaccinated but if someone chooses not to, that’s their business. I’m not worried about them infecting me and if you’ve been vaccinated, you should not worry either. There should be no mask mandate. An unvaccinated person not wearing a mask is most likely to hurt themselves, not you. If they opt for that, so be it. I’m not going to alter my activities to cater to the unfounded paranoia of others. It’s like a peanut allergy. If I’m allergic to peanuts, I don’t eat them. That has no impact on your decision to eat them,

  56. No.

  57. The CDC is headed up by ideologues who are simply doing the bidding of their masters in the swamp.

  58. Can’t stand the spineless GOP numb nuts in this state but my vote will go to Assemblyman Kevin Kiley. He’s been at the forefront of fighting against AB5, sued and won against newsom and his overreach, is completely grassroots .

  59. FYI viral load and transmissability are not the same thing. At most they may be correlated.

  60. Masks have clearly become a political statement, having nothing to do with actual disease prevention. Ergo, you can observe my political leanings by looking at my unmasked face.

  61. 74,000 new cases in the US today. 43,000 new cases in India, 43,000 new cases in Brazil. 10,000 new deaths around the world.
    But the rightwing fools here think it is a hoax or not more dangerous than the common cold.

    1. Lies, lies, and bigger lies. Lock yourself up in a closet since you are afraid of living.

      1. You ignorant folks are so pathetic. You yell, Lies, lies, lies, even though you supprt the Orange Clown who never told the truth.
        In the end you’ll pay for your ignorance with a good case of COVID-19

  62. If you were stupid enough to believe the lies of the corrupt unelected anti-humans that run the CDC and got the jab, you must be so afraid of living like a human that you ought to get a hazmat suit and wear it at all times. Or simply never leave your house.

    1. In fact I never believe the CDC, I have run the numbers myself as an epidemiologist since the beginning of the pandemic.
      But go ahead believe right wing talk radio.

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