Taxes

Elizabeth Warren's Plan To Close the 'Tax Gap' Doesn't Add Up

But it would triple the IRS budget and give the tax cops a lot more power to make life miserable for individuals and businesses.

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Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D–Mass.) says her plan to more than double the annual IRS budget would allow the federal government to collect an extra $1.75 trillion over the next 10 years.

But that windfall of new revenue—generated by beefing up IRS enforcement and giving the federal tax cops more authority to snoop through Americans' financial records and even bank statements looking for targets to audit—seems unlikely. Despite lawmakers' eagerness to scoop up more revenue without having to increase tax rates, the estimates offered in Warren's plan are far out of line with official projections about the size of the so-called "tax gap" and the amount of revenue that can be captured with additional enforcement.

When you get right down to it, her plan seems based on little more than a hunch and some bad math.

Warren's "Restoring the IRS Act of 2021" would hike the agency's budget from $11.9 billion to $31.5 billion. It would also remove the IRS from the annual appropriations scramble in Congress—shifting it from the federal budget's discretionary side that lawmakers can adjust every year to the mandatory portion of the budget, alongside Social Security and other programs that run on autopilot.

"For too long, the wealthiest Americans and big corporations have been able to use lawyers, accountants, and lobbyists to avoid paying their fair share—and budget cuts have hollowed out the IRS so it doesn't have the resources to go after wealthy tax cheats," Warren said in a press release. In practice, that means giving the IRS a big budgetary boost and giving the agency the authority to dig through bank accounts and transaction records from third-party services such as Venmo, something Warren says will allow the IRS to target "taxpayers with less visible income streams."

All this, she claims, could net the federal Treasury as much as $1.75 trillion over 10 years. That would be a staggering amount of new revenue—an amount that is wildly out of line with other estimates.

The most recent official IRS estimate says the size of the "tax gap"—the difference between how much tax is owed and how much is actually collected—is about $381 billion. That calculation relied on tax data from nearly a decade ago, and some sources suggest the figure is significantly higher today. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, for example, recently estimated that the gap is about $700 billion—and that's the figure that Biden has used as well. But even if the tax gap has expanded to twice the IRS estimate, it would still be nearly a full $1 trillion short of Warren's claims.

So where is Warren getting this number? In part, it seems, from an offhand remark during a Senate hearing earlier this year.

Asked by Sen. Ron Wyden (D–Ore.) during a hearing in April to offer a "personal opinion" on the size of the tax gap, IRS Commissioner Charles Rettig said it is "not outlandish to believe that the actual tax gap could approach and possibly even exceed $1 trillion per year."

That claim was widely reported in the press—but in the context of a hearing where Rettig was trying to persuade lawmakers to boost his own budget, it seems clear that the figure was not the result of rigorous study.

That's the hunch. The bad math has to do with a recent Treasury Department study that found tax revenue would increase by $6 for every dollar invested in enforcement at the IRS. Even if that's true, Warren's plan to hike IRS funding by $196 billion over 10 years would have to net near $9 per new dollar—and that assumes that every one of those new dollars is spent entirely on enhanced enforcement, which is simply unrealistic.

Warren's proposal also ignores diminishing returns. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that increasing IRS funding by $20 billion over 10 years would net $61 billion in new revenue, while hiking enforcement spending by $40 billion would net only $103 billion.

"It's likely that the revenue to be gained from increased enforcement funding would fall off rather quickly," argues Andrew Wilford, a senior analyst for the National Taxpayers Union Foundation.

Nor would the crackdown affect only high earners and corporations. Unpaid or underpaid corporate income taxes account for only about 10 percent of the tax gap, according to the IRS. The majority of the "tax gap" comes from individual income taxes, and a good portion of that part of the tax gap is tied up in misallocated tax credits. Warren is pitching her proposal by claiming that she's cracking down on wealthy tax cheats, but accomplishing her goals would require audits on families earning less than $50,000 a year too.

Despite all these shortcomings, Warren's proposal is likely to get serious consideration in the Democratic-controlled Congress and from the White House. President Joe Biden has already signaled his support for beefing up IRS enforcement as a way to raise as much as $700 billion to pay for parts of his expensive agenda. He plans to use that new revenue to cover nearly half the cost of his $1.8 billion "American Families Plan."

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  1. Warren clearly hates America, its citizens, and the very government itself. She wants totalitarian control and is the most authoritarian illiberal of the bunch.

    1. It’s not like she hides it. She’s the Nancy Pelosi of the Senate.

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      2. Never once does Warren ever look at unintended consequences or the costs to the market when she comes up with her grandiose schemes. It’s the same shitty tic-tac-toe level thinking that she came up with a year ago when she proposed a de facto government takeover of any business doing more than a billion in revenue. At some point, she deserves as much mockery as Dennis Kucinich and his aliens.

        Even say that her imaginary number has some basis in reality. The collection of another trillion does not become found money. It must be pulled out of the marketplace economy, which has consequences. And the consequences of pulling out random trillions here and there are not insignificant.

        Second, the cost of compliance to the market far exceeds the money siphoned off. Even if no additional taxes are assessed, compliance with additional accounting, legal and audit expenses become absurd very quickly and compounds in orders of magnitude far greater than the naively intended gain.

        The value of the IRS, if any, is that it serves as a framework, an aggregator of taxes and to challenge tax system abusers, not to squeeze every possible dime out of the population and create an environment of servitude.

    2. Actually she’s just proposing legislation.

      The totalitarian is the one in diapers and bronzer.

      1. “The totalitarian is the one in diapers and bronzer.”

        I’m trying to avoid thinking of her in diapers. The bronzer? I guess that’s to help convince lefty shits like this of her lying about ancestry.

      2. AOC? She’s clearly a childmind, but I don’t thing you’re right about the diapers.

        1. AOC is still young enough to hold her shit. Unless she’s been serially pounded in the ass by big dicked dudes. Like Tony. He probably needs diapers anymore.

          1. If you’re not Christian what are you?

            Do you hate gays and America just because you’re a horrible person?

            I hope the Biden administration weeds anti-American extremists like you out of the military.

            1. I don’t care about gays one way or the other. I do however like to rip on Tony. As To y is a swishbuckler, it’s just part of the deal. And by his own admission, his ass takes regular poundings. Also, I love America as I am a patriot. You ar emit. You are a leftist traitor who should be executed lawfully for your ongoing Marxist treason.

              I hope to weed out anti Americans soon. Like the Biden administration, and you. Perhaps if you surrender yourself immediately and give up the other members of your Marxist democrat cell, there can be a deal struck where you are given a painless execution. I’m kind and generous that way.

              If not, you will be handed over to the Mormons.

              1. I just think it’s hilarious how you think you people will be organized enough for concentration camps.

                You can be a genocidal fascist and be stupid. In fact, it’s a requirement.

                But you have to have at least enough brains on the ground for basic logistics, and frankly I think Trump taps out intellectually once he finishes his morning hairdo.

                1. Conservatives are traditionally far more organized at logistics than progtards. And camps don’t make sense. Some of you will force Americans to execute you, some will be in prison. The less egregious traitors can be permanently emigrated to other countries.

                  But keep thinking you’re smarter. It just makes it easier to get rid of you and your kind.

      3. Who else thinks Tony might actually be retarded?

        1. “Who else thinks Tony might actually be retarded?”

          Ken theorizes that the inherent dishonesty of the Tony/turd syndrome is a result, not a cause, and the cause is simply a lack of mental capability to imagine conditions where your hypothesis is not valid.
          Simply, they and others (sarcasmic comes to mind) are simply too stupid to recognize that they are lying.

          1. Well, they are morons in a Marxist cult that requires them to simultaneously believe contradictory arguments. This is a feature of all progressives to a varying extent.

        2. I think it’s interesting how your brain shuts off any time someone explains that being a progressive doesn’t mean being a totalitarian fascist.

          We should understand that genocides happen not because people are twirling mustaches thinking of ways to be evil, but because people think they are protecting their way of life.

          There’s no room for higher reasoning when some talking head convinces you that the only way to keep your cultural security blanket is to murder this or that minority.

          1. “I think it’s interesting how your brain shuts off any time someone explains that being a progressive doesn’t mean being a totalitarian fascist..”

            Brain-damaged shit-stain here finds it “interesting” that those of us not brain-damaged ignore the lies of lefty shits.

          2. But you ARE a totalitarian fascist.

            1. You could do worse than me as emperor.

              That’s the whole problem, isn’t it? You people choose the absolute worst human you can find to lead you. Like, the actual theoretical worst human.

              1. “Like, the actual theoretical worst human.” There is so much wrong to unpack with that comment that I don’t even know where to begin.

              2. I’m sure your death camps would be fabulous.

                1. I do appreciate a sense of proportion.

              3. “…actual theoretical…”. That didn’t hurt your brain before it got to your fingers? Most leftists manage to hold off till the next sentence or at least insert an adverb before they contradict themselves.

                1. Not the worst human we happen to have laying around, the worst human theoretical conceivable, except he’s real.

          3. No, being a political extremist is where authoritarianism comes from. This can come from the left or the right. Currently, the right is not the extremist group in the country. Currently, the left, primarily the progressive left, is the extremist group in the country.

            This extremism makes them the authoritarian worry. Moreover, since they have shown all desire to remove and change processes and institutions to gain as much power as possible, and have made those desires mainstream amongst themselves, they are quite clearly the authoritarians right now.

            I know you harken back to the 80s and 90s GOP in order to keep grasping at GOP authoritarianism, but those days are long gone. You are just too stuck in personal animus about the past to see the present with any semblance of rationality.

            1. Extremism is a specific thing.

              It’s the guys with all the guns and design to overthrow the government for reasons they can barely articulate.

              Eliminating the filibuster is considered radical for progressives.

              That’s not to say that they haven’t accelerated their interests in seeing black people and women as equal humans to white heterosexual males, but sometimes logic is a flood.

              1. You slew propaganda not reflected in reality. Your party is an existential enemy of blacks and women, just like it is to everyone else. You are the racists, the misogynists. The only value you see in these people isn’t as ‘human beings’, but as political pawns to be used to accumulate power and advance your authoritarianism.

                So really Tony, fuck off.

          4. Yes it does. You’re just in denial.

        3. I blocked the asshole. He/she/** it** isnt worth my data

          ( bets on ” it”)

      4. Yup that’s Joe to a t.

      5. Tony is an Internet Troll, trolling on a Conservative site. His only goal it to upset people.
        Trolls:
        The ‘Dark Triad’ of personality traits is characterized by psychopathy (continuous anti-social behavior, impulsivity, selfishness, callous and unemotional traits and remorselessness), Machiavellianism (manipulation and exploitation of others, an absence of morality, unemotional callousness, and a higher level of self-interest) and Narcissism (by grandiosity, pride, egotism, and a lack of empathy). Adding sadism (cruel or demeaning behavior to others, or intentionally inflicts psychological pain or suffering on others in order to assert power and dominance or for pleasure and enjoyment).

        As you can see Tony is a sick, broken individual. He does not deserve you hate, but needs your pity. Pray Tony gets professional help and healing.

        1. Excellent observation. May it be by speeding truck.

        2. He should be taken to the vet and put down, to and his suffering, and by extension, ours.

      6. Can’t understand why leftists can’t realize that Warren’s Fauxchahontas act has worn thin with the vast majority of Americans. She never would have gotten a job without lying about her heritage, she never would have been elected except for her lying about her skills as a financial wizard. Her main skill seems to have been flipping houses at the expense of those she claims to be an advocate for. The POTUS debates proved what a charlatan she is, and idiots like you keep listening to her insipid bullshit. Begone, libtard.

      7. She’s just proposing legislation? Ignition, and on 9/11 ‘some people did some things’.

      8. Um…if you’re referring to Trump, you seem to forget he’s not president and never will be again. We have a new totalitarian president now to whom you might turn your attention.

    3. Stop whining bitch. I seriously doubt she will have the IRS collect anywhere near in taxes what the government spends. So in fact she is undercollecting. There will still be a deficit which will be paid by increased debt and that will cost future generations far more than would have been incurred just by paying the taxes to raise revenues equal to spending. And debt is exactly what leads to totalitarian control.

      You are a fucking thief. Your children and grandchildren should gut you like the little pig you are.

      The honest way to cut taxes is to cut spending first. You haven’t done that or voted for that or even tolerated it for your entire fucking life. YOU are the enemy of American citizens. Grow the fuck up.

      1. “Stop whining bitch…”

        Fuck you with Tony’s dick, you cowardly piece of lefty shit.
        Please fuck off and die the slow, painful death you so richly deserve.

      2. Debt leads to totalitarian control?

        Not megalomaniacal narcissists who send violent mobs to kill Congress?

        Look at the big history brains on this one.

        1. If they intended to kill Congress, where were their weapons? Our side is very well armed, yet none of these people had weapons.

          Or maybe you’re just a silly bitch who repeats progtard talking points fed to you like pablum by your democrat owners. Could that be?

    4. Oh, don’t kid yourself. She’s hardly more than average for this bunch. What a herd or toads.

  2. Thankfully, never will be president.

    1. Even her own state didn’t want her for the job.

    2. Too old now.

      1. Just like your hero Trump. Although she’s not senile like Trump.

        1. Trump isn’t senile. Unlike your drooling senile master, Trump has more energy than most men thirty years his junior. He was appearing and speaking at ten rallies a day at times during the election. Biden hid in his basement.

          Although I agree he may be pushing it to. Run in 2024. But we have people like DeSantis on the rise. In fact, Trump has inspired thousands of real patriots to come forward to destroy your kind and save this country.

          Give yourself up now, and you might have mercy pissed upon you.

          1. Well, clearly that’s why we’ll be getting America’s first Jewish, and first female president in 2024, with the election of Ivanka.

            Anyone who opposes that is obviously an antisemitic misogynist.

            1. Sadly, that line didn’t work last year when leftist scoffed at anyone voting libertarian.

            2. Well, she would also be the hottest chick to ever hold high office.

  3. It isnt about tax dollars. It is about using the IRA politically to threaten and harm those she disagrees with. This could be the wealthy, people thinking of running for government, or 501 groups she despises.

    We’ve seen this in the past with Nixon and under Obama.

    Thinking the argument is an economic one is naive.

    1. It is about using the IRA politically to threaten and harm those she disagrees with.

      This anti-Irish sentiment has to stop!

      1. This! Everyone knows the real problem are all the W.O.P.s we let in.

        1. With Out Parents.

        2. Whiny Old People.

      2. My apologies to Irish terrorists instead of government terrorists. I blame cheap Asian built digital touch screens.

  4. Lizzie should start by closing the gap between her upper and lower mandible.

  5. Warren’s purpose for living is to ensure the murder of the maximum number of unborn babies and to steal as much wealth from law-abiding Americans as possible to spend and give to her cronies.

    1. Dont their money giveways during ” dowm times” only prove that taxes kill the economy?

      After all, isnt that more or less tax refunds ( just to those that didnt pay in the first place?)

      Anyone? Anyone?

      1. Now is not the time to try austerity, said the economists. Apparently it’s never the time to try austerity.

        1. We’ve been borrowing at WWII levels during good times the past 10 years. People wondered what would government do during bad times, given there was no way to safely borrow more.

          Challenge accepted!

          I could at least accept her argument with a straight face if the purpose was to balance the budget, rather than continuing to borrow hand over fist, even assuming she got every dime she imagines.

          Borrowing is tied to what they can get away with, not rational need.

  6. “For too long, the wealthiest Americans and big corporations have been able to use lawyers, accountants, and lobbyists to avoid paying their fair share…”

    If you’re like me, you visit Reason.com because you agree with its fundamental mission — making billionaires (especially Charles Koch) even richer. So this language from Warren might sound problematic.

    However, I must once again urge you to keep in mind OpenBordersLiberal-tarian’s First Law. It doesn’t matter what Democrats claim they’re going to do, as long as they govern in a pro-billionaire manner when they’re in power. Well, Democrats are in power right now. And how are “the wealthiest Americans” doing? Amazingly well, in fact. And much better than they were doing when Republicans were in power.

    #VoteDemocratToHelpBillionaires

  7. She’s the mother-in-law no one ever wanted.

    1. Shes making a desperate play for relevance.

      F—ahantas

    2. I thought that was every mother in law.

      At least according to situation comedies and folks standing in front of a brick wall when I was growing up.

      1. Yes, she should be stood up in front of a brick wall…

        Ripped off from Fawlty Towers…

  8. Will she ” close the gap” between her nose and chin?

    Lying pandering piece of trash.

    Speaking of morons, where are Killary, Waterhead and Piglousy? Havent heard from their self absorbed rancorous seditious maws in a while!

  9. Warren is the biggest Nazi in America.

    1. Na- Nationalist
      Zi- approx., socialist.

      Yep, the Shoe Fits

  10. Once again, progressive Democrats are living in a fantasy land where there are trillions of easily collected dollars out there to fund their wildest dreams. This time it’s not scrounging through the sofa cushions of billionaires, but that somehow cracking down on tax cheats is going to next close to two trillion.

    What a maroon. The richer someone is the more likely they are to hire a decent accountant to make sure everything is squared for the IRS. I mean, duh. You got a billion dollars, spending a ten thousand to make sure everything is nicely documented is a given. Hell, you don’t even pay extra because it’s your day to day accountant. I mean, duh.

    What this is going to catch are all the little fish with no money. Some housewife who deducted a few too many Amway samples, or the baby sitter paid under the table, or the grandma who got confused and ticked off the wrong tax credit after filling out the wrong worksheet.

    1. Housewives and babysitters don’t earn enough to worry about. The new swarms of IRS officers will be mobilized against whatever small business owners managed to survive the lockdowns. Small business owners tend to be conservative and can’t afford full time tax preparers and attorneys to fend off the IRS, as big corporations can.

      1. They will focus fire their political enemies. So all of us.

        1. back to the 3 line tax form:

          How much did you make?
          Put it in the envelope
          Mail it to IRS

        2. The government goes after you because you’re a traitor.

          If you didn’t hate America or weren’t a far right extremist they’d probably leave you alone.

          1. No, I’m conservatarian. I’m incapable of treason. You are a leftist. You commit treason with every breath you take. Perhaps you should breathe no more.

    2. Ignorant liberals who dont understand the tax code and are too dim to think critically love to spout how much “the rich just need to pay their fair share” (despite carrying the vast amount of the tax burden) “if we just closed loopholes or stopped them from cheating we could afford everything”.

      You hit it right on, the more money someone has, the more likely they are intelligent enough to follow the tax code / take advantage of the breaks that are there, or just pay someone to keep the books for them and keep out of trouble. I’m so sick of the little socialists (who wouldnt have THEIR taxes raised by a dime to pay for what they want) citing XYZ person who ONLY paid millions of dollars of taxes due to being able to write off losses, carrying these over, etc. They dont understand how things work, and they need a bad guy, so its just “they are cheating!! they are evil! we need to take their money!!” Its much harder to understand the tax code, learn the rules, and see that they are actually following them.

      You are right, this isnt going to catch any big fish. The big fish are smart enough to do it right or pay someone to. This is going to catch small fries for a couple thousand here and there, not a couple trillion here and there like they want.

      1. Recall Sen..Portmans website…the top few percent paid 94% of taxes According to Obamas CBO data.

        Marxist Class Warfare Jealousy, the gift that keeps giving!

        1. Maybe, but they should pay MORE. Always MORE.

          1. These Lib-thieves are pretending the circular economic model is aided or, in the continuing Obama Brand Depression, near total collapse, replaced by circular spending of the TBTF fake digital money that O’ Moron showered on his banker buddies.

            Sadly, digital credits thrown out of the Helicopter and spent by those not creating economic activity are not econ. activity.

            Theyre playing the Broken Window Fallacy. Problem is, they are deliberately breaking windows to throw non- money at in a futile attempt to spend their way out of debt.

            Its already ” ended.” Question is, whats next?

            This isnt Circular Economics, its a Circle Jerk.

    3. Not just those examples; many construction workers do side work on nights and weekends and very few (if any) will have claimed those payments as income on their tax returns.

      1. 1,000 % right.

        The only thing holding it together is underground economics

      2. The Mayflower should be on its way soon.

        Any payment that has serial numbers would probably be xeroxed on someone’s itemized deduction list and picked up by revenue OCR machines then traced to other numbers that represent a person who probably filed a tax return.

        There’s no fooling government surveillance. Your slave collar works as intended. The only sensible thing to do would be to reform the system to be fair and reasonable, which would of course disappoint someone.

    4. “Once again, progressive Democrats are living in a fantasy land where there are trillions of easily collected dollars out there to fund their wildest dreams…”

      So you got what you voted for, TDS-addled asshole?

    5. Increased taxes are increased taxes. Just because the targets are those legendary guys “behind the tree” getting taxed it’s still more money coming out of the private sector. We all live in the same economy, when the government takes more we will all have less.

      1. Further, by definition, taxes are not voluntary.
        It matters since it is axiomatic that in a free exchange between agents, both gain, and the wealth of the world is thereby increased. You wanted that shirt more than the $10 you had, and the seller wanted your ten bucks more than the shirt; you both came away more ‘wealthy’.
        Coercive exchanges never improve the wealth of humankind, at best they *MAY* not harm it.

      2. Businesses do not pay taxes.

        They remit them – pass thru.

        Its really a tax on the Poor

        1. I wish that more people understood this fact. Corporations are just acting as the IRS collection point.

  11. Close the tax gap? Wouldn’t that involve making low income people pay a lot more in taxes?

    And wasn’t sending forth swarms of tax officers one of the original complaints against King George in the Declaration?

    1. Along with general warrants, no representation, and general tyranny. Pretty much what this woman represents.

      As for her “math” it always seems to come from a dark place to which no one should ever venture, not even a proctologist. I recall from her earlier proposal that this “beefed up” IRS would audit about 30% of all filers, every year.

      Seriously, she is certifiably insane. And an aspiring tyrant.

      1. Has she encouraged any extralegal, violent power grabs like Donald Trump and most members of his party? No? Then perhaps that is not her particular problem.

        Top marginal tax rates were 90% when this country was at its acme of greatness. You have no legs to stand on. You find yourself doing sad whore work for slimy, psychopathic wealthy interests who are perfectly aware of how much bullshit they’re shoveling.

        What a waste of life, to be honest.

        1. Top marginal tax rates were 90% when this country was at its acme of greatness.

          So all we need to do is bomb Europe and Asia back to the stone ages? Also I guess Kennedy was some right wing extremist when he requested a tax cut of 20% which was ultimately signed into law by another right winger, LBJ. Which coincided with higher tax revenues and lower unemployment.

          Also referencing the 1950s as the high time of America is racist.

          1. Not surprising that a moron like Tony would dust off that particular discredited canard. Such a predictable twat.

          2. I don’t think we should bomb anyone, but we should acknowledge that in a world with competing great powers, it takes all the more conscious effort to maintain a standard of living.

            1. “I don’t think…”
              Wow! First time, no lies!

            2. so taking away more of my money is an “effort to maintain a standard of living?” for who? DC gangsters?

        2. “Has she encouraged any extralegal, violent power grabs like Donald Trump and most members of his party?..”

          Steaming pile of lefty shit is incapable of posting without lying.

        3. “Top marginal tax rates were 90% when this country was at its acme of greatness.”

          So back when women were told “STFU and bake me a pie…and blow me”, gays were shunned, trannies were shunned and openly brutally beaten, income inequality between POC’s (who the cops could publicly beat) / whites was extreme, and rich white dudes could pretty much get away with 1000x more than what flies today? I know some people clamoring for those days but it usually isnt liberals with an IQ of 80.

          1. No one ever paid 90%. Tony is one of those morons that keeps repeating that line even though it was discredited long ago.

            And he will keep repeating it. He’s stuck on stupid.

          2. Yeah, in Tony’s world all that stuff is worse than ever. He clings to victim hood like that creepy little dude in lord of the rings clings to that ring. Just as bitter, too.

            Progs never acknowledge progress. Too funny.

          3. I’m not sure that high marginal tax rates and apartheid conditions necessarily have anything to do with each other, but I suppose it is true that there would never have been a New Deal consensus without a “fuck black people” consensus alongside it.

            1. “I’m not sure that high marginal tax rates and apartheid conditions necessarily have anything to do with each other,..”

              Steaming pile of lefty shit assume adults would be interested in his “opinion”.
              Steaming pile of lefty shit has not the mental ability to form an opinion distant from the throw of a die, and as has been become obvious, no ability to even consider that his claims are imbecilic.
              We are dealing with a bubble-brain here; not capable to even recognize his lies.

        4. I’ve how you remain so obsessed with your ignorance. It doesn’t matter that you’ve been shown dozens of times that due to tax breaks and carve outs nobody actually paid that 90%, that effective tax rates are largely the same. You dont even have to admit you’ve also been shown dozens of times that the current tax code today is far more progressive than it was in the 50s. You just embrace your “knowledge ” despite all actual facts.

          Good work Tony.

          1. Ken theorizes that the inherent dishonesty of the Tony/turd syndrome is a result, not a cause, and the cause is simply a lack of mental capability to imagine conditions where your hypothesis is not valid.
            Simply, they and others (sarcasmic comes to mind) are simply too stupid to recognize that they are lying.

          2. He also completely ignores how much the government has taken in over the last 20 years. I’m pretty sure there were only three where revenues actually did not increase.

          3. Yet I know precisely by how much you are ignorant of what you’re talking about.

            Yes, it was all an illusion, I say sarcastically. People aren’t buying billion-dollar yachts with two helipads each because they’ve been given most of the wealth of civilization at pennies on the dollar, politician-wise.

            It’s just because they worked so much harder.

            1. He’s not ignorant of any of that. Your statements about tax rates have long been discredited. You embarrass yourself when you continue to make them. You’re like my commie aunt. She trots out all the same disproven, tired old democrat taking points. Then gets mad when I show her in writing how wrong she is. And she’s a rented CAR university professor with a bachelor’s degree and two masters.

              Yet, like the rest of you, ha no idea what she’s talking about. Like you, she thinks that because some other democrats say it that it’s a proven fact. Even though, like your statements here, can be objectively disproven. And have been for decades.

              You beclown yourself with every comment, and you’re too fucking stupid to grasp that basic fact.

        5. Haha. No, tony. Being so resentful of the people who already pay most of the bills is a waste of life.

          1. Not quite as bad as defending privilege and plunder while not participating in any of it.

            That’s what makes libertarians especially precious. Nobody is that pathetic. I mean no fucking body.

            1. Tony, privilege and plunder is what you and your entire party are all about. FFS, quit shitting up up these threads and go read some Bastiat. I realize there isn’t a pop up version of his work, but give it a try anyway.

    2. YEPPERS. It led to war.

  12. All this, she claims, could net the federal Treasury as much as $1.75 trillion over 10 years.

    Is giving the IRS more power a political winner, even with Democrats? Eating the rich is truly that popular? And whatever amount this brings in tax revenue leaves the economy. Do people think it’s all coming from under the wealthy’s mattresses?

    1. Yeah, if Biden had run on “I’m going to double federal spending, jack up taxes and staff up the IRS to help you with your taxes” I don’t think he would have won.

      1. Which is why they’re pushing to get everything done in the first 2 years, because the voting majority will be gone after that.

    2. If it isn’t lowering consumption by the rich it’s only going to cause inflation and tank the stock market. (Most of the long term sales of stock go to pensions and 401k. So they retires are the most likely affected by both.

    3. There isn’t enough to get it out of ‘the rich’. Unless the definition is expanded to include people who aren’t rich.

  13. So much for ‘starving the beast’ you fucking putzes

    1. “So much for ‘starving the beast’ you fucking putzes”

      Got what you voted for, TDS-addled lefty asshole?

    2. Don’t talk to your mother that way.

  14. “There is no greater injustice than a rich person paying for the shit they use.”

    –The remaining Koch brother, and thanks entirely to his brain fart, half of the US political discourse.

    1. The remaining Koch brother’s net worth change during the last full year (2020) with a Republican President: minus $5 billion.

      The remaining Koch brother’s net worth change in less than half a year with a Democratic President: plus $8.37 billion.

      #BillionairesKnowBest

      1. That’s what I’m trying to explain. Inheriting money and turning it into more money doesn’t make you a genius.

        Stupid people with money = trouble.

        1. Who decides, who is stupid and who is smart? Hopefully not the state. I’d trust the market to make a more objective decision.

          1. People decide. With their capacity for judgment.

            Trusting the market to make all your decisions for you is a special kind of sad.

            1. The market IS people you dumbass.

    2. Steaming pile of lefty shit is incapable of posting without lying.

    3. Even you don’t believe in MMT.

      1. You tell me the cultural concept that isn’t a fictional story we tell ourselves.

        1. Everything Is So Terrible And Unfair!(tm)

          There ya go, tony. Keep telling yourself that fictional story. I guess it’s easier than being happy.

          1. Fairness is a fiction, but one of the most interesting ones in my opinion. There’s no way to tell what’s fair objectively. It’s a feeling that comes from our apelike biology. Yet as a word it describes vast portions of modern human experience, like law, beauty, and morality.

            But I do wonder if you ever stopped to think about how you can mock grievance politics from one side of your face while whining about income tax rates out of the other.

            1. “Fairness is a fiction, but one of the most interesting ones in my opinion…”

              Shitstain here offers a comment as if the “opinion” of a steaming pile of lefty shit were worth something to other than his mommy.

              1. Oh, my mother merely tolerates my opinions.

                1. I’m sure you’re far more inane in person, when your commentary just spills out without a ‘submit’ button as a safety.

              2. I’m his opinion, his bullshit doesn’t stink.

            2. If I had my choice of keeping the 50% of my income that’s stolen, or have someone use the wrong pronouns with me, then call me Shirley.

              1. Shirley you jest!

            3. “Yet as a word it describes vast portions of modern human experience, like law, beauty, and morality.”

              And property rights.

              1. I said law didn’t I?

        2. As soon as you define “fairy tale we tell ourselves.”

          For example, ethics and Hansel and Gretle are completely different.

  15. So “not a result of rigorous study” is a polite way of saying “pulled out of his ass”?

  16. Close the tax gap eh? I guess thats a good point. Lots of waitresses, babysitters, contractors taking under the table money, housekeepers, etc that are not only keeping money hidden from taxation, but they are also usually in a bracket that currently pays almost none of the tax burden of this country. Increasing their taxes should help to get them closer to paying their fair share.

    They certainly arent talking about the top 10% of earners, who already pay the majority of the countries tax burden. Guess that other 90% will have to pony up if they want all that shit the socialists are asking for.

  17. In 1986 we were supposed to have tax simplification – it was complicated so much the Internal Revenue Code of 1954, as amended was redesignated the Internal Revenue Code of 1986. It hasn’t got any better. The closest was 2018 when raising the standard deduction reduced itemizers by nearly 75%, but it complicated taxes in other areas.

    If they want to have everyone pay a fair share, ban all lobbyists from Washington and have a real tax reform where the tax laws are not used to determine winners and losers based on political whims and then eliminate special interest provisions to give all entities and individuals an even playing field.

    1. “In 1986 we were supposed to have tax simplification…”

      My tax guy at the time called it the “Tax Preparer’s Retirement Act”; his services didn’t get cheaper.

      1. Actually it would have been great if we kept the 86 act. I was studying for my tax LLM when it was in process. Lowered the top rate to 28% and closed down most tax dodges. It was cheaper for the wealthy to pay the tax than to pay to avoid it.
        But then the politicians could not need well enough alone. They increased the rates and added back in new levels of complexity.
        The 86 act was hell on the tax planning profession. I know because the first part of my career was stalled because of it.

    2. Actually it really did simplify the code. I know. I was studying for my tax LLM in 1985-86. It killed the tax profession for several years because it made tax compliance cheaper than tax avoidance. I still have my copy of the 86 act somewhere in my library.

  18. Lizzy understands the truth, which is that the rich aren’t paying their fair share. Why is this truth? They’re still rich. If they paid their fair share then they wouldn’t be rich anymore. It’s really that simple.

    1. Lying is not a comment

      1. C’mon man! Let’s give sarc a little credit. He’s wrong on the SJW shit, but he doesn’t seem to share Tony’s resentment for other people’s money, or the government’s ability to spend it better.

        1. You don’t understand me at all. Given the choice, I will vote myself more money every time. I just happen to believe that putting severely mentally ill orange fascists in charge is not a boon to my investments.

          1. “You don’t understand me at all…”

            Every one here does.
            You are a pathetic piece of lefty shit, entirely too stupid to understand when you are (almost constantly) lying,
            You, OTOH, are too stupid to understand how stupid you are.

            1. And that’s why you made a lot of money during the Trump administration?

              1. I did. His tax cuts generated me nearly 7k in additional income instantly.

                In 15-20 years most of you lefty retards, especially the ones who entered the workforce during trumps administration, will realize you made more money and had a better quality of life under trump than at anytime in your life previously.

                The only way that won’t apply is if you didn’t work and just lived on welfare the entire time, as all the statistics showed wage growth that was actually accelerating faster for low income workers than high income earners under trump. Including both the largest and fastest wage growth for blacks and minorities in nearly 40 years.

              2. I’ve made more money during the Trump administration than you’ve voted yourself in your entire life.

          2. No, you’re pretty one dimensional. You’re a valid leftist idiot, probably a borderline sociopath. I see you as a more outlandish version of the Buddy Cole character from Kids in the Hall. Without Buddy’s endearing demeanor.

  19. She’s an anal pregnancy.

    1. Tony has those many times a day. After his special friends at the bathhouse implant the seed of life I’m his rectal cavity.

      1. Rather be gay than an inbred, rural shithole living, America hating traitor like you.

        1. I’m a patriot. And I don’t live in a rural area. I live in a mid size city. About 10 minutes drive to the nearest Nordstrom. And you’re right about one thing, I’m not gay. Although you’re free to take it up the ass all you want. Probably by Mormons.

          1. You may or may not be gay, but protest too much some more, why dothen’t you? What you are is a giant anus fetishist.

            I’m more of a “leave something to the imagination” kind of guy, but if you spend any time on the internet you know that some people really like looking at gaping anuses, and most of them aren’t even former presidents of the United States.

            1. “…I’m more of a “leave something to the imagination” kind of guy,..”

              Shitstain would include “reality” here.
              Fuck off and die a slow, painful death.

              1. At some point you have to start delivering on this endless flirtation.

            2. No, they’re you. And I’m not gay. Sorry to spoil your fantasy.

  20. “For too long, the wealthiest Americans and big corporations have been able to use lawyers, accountants, and lobbyists to avoid paying their fair share…,” Warren said

    “Incredibly, the lawyers, accountants, and lobbyists have been able to legally use the tax code I and my colleagues perpetuate.”

  21. Give Lizzie a break. First of all, math is hard for girls, especially from the reservation. Second, in her mind, there will always be a tax gap as long as mean people are allowed to keep any of their income.

    1. Squaw’s been hitting the firewater again. Heap big drunk.

      1. At least she isn’t an inbred redneck like you.

        Backwards traitor.

        1. I told you, I live in a city. I’ve never lived in a rural area. I’ll bet you have though. As I’m sure you’re projecting. You’re probably a drunk too. And you clearly take it up the ass from Mormons, which is likely why you are obsessed with them.

          Too many Mormon cocks plowing your dumb ass.

          1. Asking for a friend, where are all these slutty Mormon gays?

            I really do like all races, but there’s something about blond men with culturally induced sexual anxieties.

            1. Asking for a friend: Is there any reason shitstain should not be assigned a slow, painful death?

              1. Have to admit, I can’t think of. Good reason. The slower and more tortuous the better.

  22. go to a flat tax. just saved $ 11 billion.

    1. This is similar to Trump’s proposal of a tax holiday instead of reimbursements; much cheaper, but it means firing gov’t employees (SEIU) and it can’t be used to reward favored folks.

  23. “The problem with this country is that taxes are too low.”

    —no one with income

    1. Who is ever going to say “I think you’re depriving me of the appropriate amount of wealth I could otherwise spend on fun shit”?

      Taxation is you people’s problem. You’re the ones who insist that shit has to be paid for. I don’t see you prodding Republicans to run their campaigns on eliminating Social Security and Medicare. So if you’re not going to do that, and you’re going to insist on some ridiculous notion of fiscal prudence wherein you pay for things with taxes, then I would suggest you explain why you’re in favor of such huge budget deficits and/or high taxes, and stop blaming the rest of us for your conundrum.

      1. Is there anyone else here who assumes sthitstain’s ‘argument’s’ to be other than a troll’s bullshit?

      2. Actually the laws of physics state everything must be paid for. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

        Just because you think money can be printed from thin air doesn’t mean that action has no consequences. Leftists like you are just too stupid to understand them.

        1. Money is printed out of cotton and electricity. It doesn’t break the laws of physics, but that doesn’t mean it’s actually owed to anybody.

          The thing you need to understand is that there is only one significant threat to the dollar right now: the destabilization of the United States by moron fascist plunderers in the Republican party.

          1. You really don’t grasp that currency is just a way of keeping score do you? Inflating the currency supply is exactly like watering down booze.

            1. Yeah, of keeping score in a game that we’ve already established can’t be won: beating the laws of physics.

              We have the resources available to us on planet earth supplied ultimately by the sun.

              Who is entitled to which slice of that pie is entirely an arbitrary moral choice. You sure you made the right one in all its mind-numbing simplicity and excuse-making for eternally persistent poverty?

              1. You still don’t get it. Clearly, your understanding of math and closed systems is unsurprisingly lacking. Which explains your political choices.

              2. Why is absolute poverty declining globally?

                Where are the greatest gains in prosperity happening?

                What kind of economic system is operating there?

          2. I hope you recover from that closed-head injury.

            You post a lot of dumb shit, but that one takes the cake. You understand NOTHING about currency and macroeconomics.

            And in saying this I am not defending republicans, who in my book are as bad as democrats.

            You are exactly like the Trump cultists you despise so much. A cult is a cult, and you are a Bluetard cultist.

      3. Taxation should be abolished because it’s theft.

        There.

        1. Without taxation, how do you have money in the first place?

  24. Democrats bottom-line, ” STEAL MORE! “

    1. Actual Trump administration policy:

      “Infect everyone.”

      1. More discredited hysteria. You would really have been at home in the Nazi regime.

      2. Right. That was back when he told us all to take the subway to Chinatown, wasn’t it?

  25. When you get right down to it, her plan every single policy proposal she has ever made seems based on little more than a hunch and some bad math.

    Fixed.

  26. “Elizabeth Warren’s plan” + “doesn’t add up” = redundant

    1. She is just a dumb fuck, as are her acolytes.

  27. Enough flaming!
    Instead of needing to hire more people to pore through OUR business, Congress could truly simplify the rules so these loopholes and deductions are gone and it will be harder to cheat to begin with. Our IRS agents might actually be able to understand the rules and explain them. Not to mention the savings everyone would reap from not spending so much time doing taxes. Wouldn’t that be lovely?

    1. its pointless. Theyve created debt that can never be paid.

      Theyre rearranging chairs on the deck of the Titanic.

      1. Sure it could if we stopped adding to the debt and inflating ou currency. It will take a long time, but very doable.

  28. Nah, what am I talking about? Congress would give away power that DAs use to bludgeon people into plea deals for other “crimes” they want to punish people for, like protesting, not following every government pronouncement as an absolute edict to be mindlessly followed, etc. What fun would government officials have then?

  29. BTW, fuck Trump, fuck Warren, fuck Biden, fuck ’em all!!!

    1. thats Nihilism. Fatalism. Bad aproach.

      Trying to muddy the waters to sneak in OMB makes it obvious youre a Troll

      1. No troll, just cranky.

  30. Yes the Rich must pay..

    Biden
    Harris
    Waters
    Schumer
    Piglosi
    Clintons
    Kerrys
    Gates
    Soros…

    Up against the Wall!

    1. No-Joke… Don’ pay and see what happens.

    2. You forgot:

      McConnell
      McCarthy
      Trump
      Cruz
      The Bushes
      Pence
      Rubio
      The Kochs

      I’m all for bipartisanship in such matters.

      1. Ironically; The Trump administration cut taxes.

  31. Ah yes the holly grail for Progressives. Tax the rich, no downside so do whatever it takes. \s

    1. …And P.S. …. by rich they mean everyone who actual *earns* / works for a living. The only one’s not paying taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, income taxes, sin taxes, etc, etc, etc,, are the one’s living off the government to begin with.

  32. No, eliminate taxation — do not fund its collection.
    Give people a viable option to pay federal tax when they speculatively buy products like the Rock n’ Play Sleeper or make a cash bank withdrawal, such as of $10,000 or more or buy plane tickets to Afghanistan, Syria, or Kashmir.

  33. Here’s my plan. Pay 10%. No deductions. If you make $2,000 babysitting, send the IRS $200. If you make $20,000 working part time, send $2,000. If you are a pro athlete making $20 million, send $2 million.

    If you are the largest shareholder of a publicly-trade company and make $2 billion with a merger, the IRS gets $200 million.

    Churches still stress the tithe, which is 10%.

    But, in my opinion, people who buy a house beyond their means get a break with a larger deduction for home mortgage interest.

    If two people get paid the same salary, the person with more kids gets a larger deduction.

    1. The irony is we have Marx’ progressive tax, while historically “communist” Russia has a 13% flat tax.

      Add to this the censorship and cancel culture, and it seems pretty apparent that we have become what we once derided…the USA is morphing into a neo-Soviet Union.

    2. Keyword –> “No deductions.”
      Crony socialism striked along time ago with Federal Taxation.

      And in the spirit of “The Peoples” law UN-Constitutionally.

      Article I, Section 8, Clause I
      “all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be *uniform* throughout the United States”

      which forbids Congress to give preferences “by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue” to the ports of one state over those of another. Along with other provisions restricting congressional power over taxes and commercial regulations, these two were designed to forestall economically oppressive discrimination.
      https://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/1/essays/35/uniformity-clause

      But hey; In the land of Nazism … It didn’t say ‘uniform’ to every ‘person’ … In Nazism there is no ‘United’ (Union) of ‘States’ Government but only ONE ‘royal’ government composed of Gov-Gods who are so powerful they can legislate the weather for each and every single soul the [WE] foundation bought on the slave market.

      1. In case the USA ideology has been so lost in Citizens minds; The ‘Union’ of States Government was created to unify states for specific purposes (mostly a strong defense). It wasn’t created to be a Nazi dictator over every single person.

  34. While it is true that Senator Warren may be victim of hyperbole (which politician isn’t?) – funding the IRS will help – BIG TIME. People that work as employees are already paying more than their share. We need to cut down on the income that is not being taxed (i.e. cash) AND we need to make it easier to chase the well-lawyered super wealthy. It would help to change the laws so that tax cheats spend time in prison, not pay a fine. I’m with her on ENFORCEMENT. However the wealth tax is a lousy idea!

    1. Jackboots for Freedom!

  35. Anyone here done tax litigation for the government? I have. Winning cases against the very wealthy is hard as hell. They hire ethically challenged lawyers who fight like junkyard dogs.

    Collecting money from the wealthy is not going to be easy. The IRS will probably go after people who can’t afford high price legal help.

  36. Of course her ideas are based on bad math. If she could process numbers, she’d have figured out that “progressive” economic policies are almost always counter-productive to their alleged purpose.

  37. Net-net, she is simply a very stupid person. Full stop.

  38. Mrs Warren is a space cadet and now she is lost in space. The leftist elite seemingly know nothing of human nature. When they step in and make life too miserable to bare, people take immediate measures to mitigate that situation. The net result is that a tax grab returns considerably less in tax returns than expected and that take stays very low until the situation is remedied. They increase taxes and people move to reduce their tax burden. The Laffer curve is the most disbelieved economic well established and proven principle of modern times. This was the doctrinal thesis that got Dr Laffer his degree award. Basically it states that reducing tax rates causes a higher return of tax receipts. The leftists cannot allow themselves to acknowledge this simple fact. Their lust for control of our lives tells them to raise taxes and make our lives more miserable than they already are. this becomes a self defeating policy. It is also another example of why everything the left touches makes the situation addressed much much worse.

  39. https://wapexclusive.com/ ,This extremism makes them the authoritarian worry. Moreover, since they have shown all desire to remove and change processes and institutions to gain as much power as possible, and have made those desires mainstream amongst themselves, they are quite clearly the authoritarians right now.

    I know you harken back to the 80s and 90s GOP in order to keep grasping at GOP authoritarianism, but those days are long gone. You are just too stuck in personal animus about the past to see the present with any semblance of rationality.

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