Gun Control

No, It's Not Easier To Get a Rifle Than Vote

This awful gun control talking point won’t go away.

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Sen. Alex Padilla (D–Calif.) recently claimed that it is easier in some states to acquire a rifle than it is to cast a ballot. This false claim ignores the reality of gun control in America. Despite widespread misconceptions held by gun control advocates, guns are the most heavily regulated consumer good in the country. Millions of Americans are federally prohibited from not only possessing a gun for even a fleeting moment, but also from possessing even a single bullet. 

Everyone who purchases a gun from a gun dealer must undergo a background check. The background check system is fairly robust (even though false positives can be a problem), and it screens for a variety of conditions and offenses that would disqualify someone from legally possessing a gun. Ineligible individuals include, among others, felons, those who have been dishonorably discharged from the military, anyone who has been involuntarily committed or adjudicated as a "mental defective," undocumented immigrants, and anyone who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence. If a prohibited person acquires a gun through a private sale without a background check, he is committing a felony. If the seller knew or had "reasonable cause" to know that the recipient was a prohibited buyer, then he is committing a felony too. Violators can serve up to 10 years in prison.

While prohibiting some people from possessing a gun might make sense, millions more Americans are stripped of their Second Amendment rights if they are "unlawful users" of or addicted to any controlled substance. It's no defense if you live in a state where marijuana has been legalized. And if you lie on the form and say you don't use illicit drugs, that's a five-year felony.

This is not all just theoretical, as Ethan Kollie found out. Kollie helped the 2019 Dayton nightclub shooter build his gun (but not to commit the shooting, of which Kollie had no inkling). When the feds came to Kollie, he admitted to using marijuana and to lying on the background check form. He will serve 32 months for lying on the form and being illegally in possession of firearms.

In general, however, you need not worry if you use marijuana and own guns—if you're white and live in an affluent neighborhood, that is. Those charged with prohibited possession of a firearm are usually already under investigation or having trouble with the law in other ways. Federal prosecutors often charge every offense they can, as it gives them more leverage in plea deals and helps pad their conviction rate. In 2007, for example, federal prosecutors charged John Mooney with possession of a firearm by a felon after he took a gun from his ex-wife, who had held the weapon to his head. Mooney then walked seven blocks to the bar he worked at to give it to the police. For those seven blocks he was in possession of the firearm and technically violating the law. And in November, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 8th Circuit upheld a sentence of 30 months for a felon who was convicted of possessing a single bullet.

These are just the federal restrictions. Many states have onerous requirements of their own, such as the 10 states that require a permit to purchase a firearm. In Washington, D.C., the requirements for legally owning a gun are sufficiently cumbersome that many have simply given up. While the pandemic came with gun-buying fervor across the country, in D.C., the only federal firearm licensee who could legally authorize the transfer or acquisition of guns abruptly stopped business. Gun rights, unlike voting rights, can be precarious enough that a change in profession can affect the right to self-defense for thousands of people.

True, not all firearms sales are run through the background check system. Private sales between individuals who are not in the business of selling guns are not subject to background checks. Fixing that "loophole" is the goal of so-called universal background check bills. Note, however, that anyone who is prohibited from possessing a weapon who acquires one through a private sale is already committing a significant felony, as is the seller if he knows the buyer is prohibited.

Obviously, registering to vote and casting a ballot are not subject to the same restrictions as purchasing a gun. In many states, felons are commonly restricted from voting during the period of incarceration, and in 11 states felons lose their voting rights indefinitely. But every felon in every state is federally prohibited from possessing a firearm or ammunition, and states are powerless to relax those restrictions. That's true for someone who received a suspended sentence for tax fraud 30 years ago as well as for a murderer who served his time. (In rare instances, courts have restored Second Amendment rights to some felons—those with the resources to take their cases to court, at least. The blanket prohibition is the default rule.)

While some states may have overly bureaucratic systems for voter registration, that's nothing compared to gun restrictions. Twenty-one states allow same day voter registration, and every state allows some sort of mail-in voting with just five states requiring a justification for voting by mail. Yes, lines may be long at some polling places, but the same is true of gun stores, especially last year.

Gun control advocates often embrace the narrative that guns are freely available in stores to anyone who wants one. Maybe they've never tried to buy a gun, and perhaps they don't know any gun owners. In this and so many other ways, the gun debate is actually a culture debate. Guns are similar to voting in that people imbue them with deep significance and get fiercely riled up about restrictions. Within political tribes, your stance on gun rights or voting rights is a signaling device—but it's still important to get your facts straight.

NEXT: Why Does American Infrastructure Cost More and Take Longer To Build Than It Used To?

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  1. Also, asking people to show ID when they vote might do something for the other side of the equation.

    Why is it easier to vote than it is to write a check?

    1. Voting is so easy:
      unregistered voters can do it
      mentally incompetent people can do it.
      non-state residents can do it.
      non US residents can do it.
      incarcerated prisoners can do it.
      children can do it.
      it can be done many times in the same election.
      and last, but not least even the dead can do it!

      1. ^EXACTLY! Well stated. 🙂

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        2. The second amendment states:
          the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.
          Now do you get it?

          1. this is what I have been trying to post, but is not posting. I also added it does “not say” Federal government, State government, Armed Forces, National Guard, or police. Yet it keeps getting blocked. So much for free speech at un-Reason.

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      2. Except they can’t. Or at least the very few who have tried have been quickly and easily found out. It’s just a preposterous right wing talking point. Kris Kobach spent how much time and money trying to prove it was a problem before the official report showed absolutely no statistical deviation due to it, and the vast majority who tried were Republicans? What is Sidney Powell’s defense against the Dominion lawsuit? Jeez.

        You can argue whether people kill people or guns kill people, but if guns were removed the debate doesn’t exist. Do note that I am NOT arguing for taking anyone’s guns, merely for others to quit subjugating the majority of society for what looks like could maybe possibly be kind of a slippery slope for one component of it. Look at places where guns are difficult to get relative to where the US is, and almost any defense sounds like a kid saying the dog ate his homework. It’s just fucking dumb.

        As things stand it *is* more difficult to get a gun. It ought to be. If more people in a democracy are able to cast their vote it is nothing but a win for society at large.

        The fact that “people have so little faith in our electoral system” is precisely because of people like Trump and Krakenlady- who now even claims “no reasonable person would believe what she alledged in court”. Skittishness and fear brought on by amplified bullshit should not be counted as fact. This is Reason. Just make a minute effort to be reasonable, huh?

        1. But somehow the “Russia Rigged 2016 POTUS Election” had zero bearing on the general integrity of elections?

        2. Your name is wrong. Dead voters are found every election. You just deny it as it is hard to prosecute someone unconnected to the evidence once discovered.

        3. Every legal, qualified citizen should be able to cast a vote. There are many instances of fraud, and most certainly not everyone is caught.
          There are emails right now in Wisconsin that show the fraud by the Democrat’s and Zuckerberg’s organization. The Democratic Green Bay mayor and Democratic governor are fighting the investigation tooth and nail. If you have nothing to hide, hide nothing, but that is not the case. Why? Release all the mayor’s emails.

          I am not a Republican or Democrat, but a libertarian. I supported neither Trump or Biden. What I do see is the Democrats with HR1 (the Federal government controlling elections while the Democrats are in power) and getting rid of the filibuster is indeed an effort to set up a one party dictatorship. While I support neither party, I sure as hell don’t want a one party system of either party.

          Let us also remember Pelosi is trying to unseat the winning House Candidate from Iowa that won. Pelosi has stated she can unseat any House member she desires. In other words Pelosi is the dictator of the House and damn the citizens that elected their Rep.
          WAKE UP!

          1. “There are emails right now in Wisconsin that show the fraud by the Democrat’s and Zuckerberg’s organization. ”

            My quick look into this issue suggests something a bit different. This is not a case of voter fraud, but of the mayor taking control of voting from Green Bay city clerk, who, the argument goes, was the legally authorized manager of the voting process. I don’t see any suggestion that any voter committed fraud.

          2. For a government like ours to function two serious parties that both allow and incorporate input from members closer to the center is essential. Compromise is the only way to effect significant legislation via the legislative bodies.

            I am an independent through and through, and reason, the acknowledgement of the necessity of compromise and the willingness to accept decisions with which I both agree and disagree both motivate me to vote and try to see different points of view.

            But right now there is one serious ( though certainly imperfect in general and wacko in some instances), largely fact-based faction, and another motivated by imagination, nonsense, utterly unjustified religious zealotry and fear. Until Republicans begin offering policies based on Provable, verifiable fact, I can’t take them seriously. The Tea Party kind of started it in earnest and their obvious fear of more voters agreeing with the opposition has be curious at best. Rather than offer real, sensible solutions they have opted instead to go full hyperbolic delusional fearmongering. It is laughable. And tragic.

            1. The Democrats are neither serious nor fact-based, that’s the problem with your statement.

            2. Maybe we shouldn’t WANT compromise and cooperation. That’s how stuff gets done; frequently, VERY BAD stuff. Better for elites to wring their hands and cry, due to helplessness.

        4. Ask yourself this question. If Donald Trump was President and the Republicans controlled the House and Senate, how many Democrats would vote yes for HR1? I would be willing to bet my life the number would be zero.

      3. Woman practices voting for either party …
        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ5asE6N7ow

    2. HAH!! Can’t even get a bank account from which to WRITE a check without presenting a government issued picture ID. But to vote? No problem. Easiest thing to do.

    3. A bit off of the subject but can someone please tell me how to comment without replying to a comment? Please!

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  2. This was discussed in the ENB morning thread. It was decided by a vote of 1 to everyone else that this is a non-sequitur.

    1. No no no, now you’re just trolling.

    2. Voting is so easy, even dead people can do it.

    3. And that “I support voter ID, but only if the state gives it to me for free and hand-delivers it to me personally while I sit on my recliner stuffing my face with Twinkies; otherwise it’s a poll tax” argument was almost–not quite, but almost–as dumb as “not letting child molesters claim refugee status to enter the US is denying them their liberty.”

      1. I agree with your very fair assessment.

      2. In my state, we had a plan to require voter ID and also provide it at no out-of-pocket cost to the individuals who requested it (people with driver’s licenses didn’t need one) so the cost to the state was reasonably low.

        You basically show up at the DMV with your voter registration card and a utility bill or similar with your name on it, get your picture taken, wait a few minutes, and grab your ID. Easy-Peasy. No charge, no processing fee, nothing. The left still raised holy hell about it – editorials were written, attack ads created, lawsuits were filed.

        The courts didn’t strike it down, but they did remove enough of the provisions in it that it was essentially useless. They bought the whole ‘poll tax’ argument put forth by the DC-based activist group that sued. This was after the question was put to the voters statewide and passed easily.

        https://ballotpedia.org/Missouri_Voter_ID_Requirement,_Constitutional_Amendment_6_(2016)

        1. well, since you don’t need to present a passport or birth certificate to get registered to vote, anyone or his dog can do this.

          Sad…..

      3. What exactly is so wrong with demanding that the government make the barriers to voting as low as possible, WHILE STILL keeping it as secure as possible? What is to be gained by the government NOT going out of its way to try to get every person an ID?

        1. Well, now you’re commenting on a story about them both, so we’re all waiting patiently for you to take the same stance on gun rights that you do on voting…

        2. If you think walking your fat ass 50 feet into a DMV is a barrier, you need to order P90X and get in shape.

          1. But it is a barrier, for people who live in rural areas and can’t go visit a DMV very often, for people who have to work long hours and can’t afford to take off from work to go wait in line at the DMV, for people who are homebound, for people who don’t have reliable transportation. It’s not much of a barrier for you, and it’s not much of a barrier for me, but it is more of a barrier for others, and regardless of how much you want to try to minimize it, it is still *a* barrier. What exactly is wrong with the government trying to serve people for whom getting an ID is more difficult than it normally is?

            Put another way, why shouldn’t the government serve the people? Why should the people have to obey the government’s orders in this case?

            1. LOL–now you’re just throwing shit up against a wall trying to get something to stick.

              Why should the government have to give you MOAR FREE SHIT just so you don’t have to exert any kind of physical activity for more than a few seconds?

              1. 1. If the ID isn’t free, then it is a stealth poll tax, as I already explained.
                2. This isn’t welfare. This isn’t Obamaphones or whatever. This is the government securing the right to vote. That is part of its actual job.
                3. Why do you view voting as a privilege that must be earned, rather than as a right?

                1. You have a right to petition your government and utilize the court system… should they set up mobile government offices for them too? Youre such a fucking idiot.

                  1. So, you don’t answer any of my questions and go straight to the insults. Typical Jesse.

                    1. Your questions are nonsensical you sophist fuck. Having a right doesn’t mean you can order others to hand deliver and gift wrap it for you. You notice you didnt answer the questions above?

                2. 1. If the ID isn’t free, then it is a stealth poll tax, as I already explained.

                  False. Otherwise, all IDs are poll taxes.

                  2. This isn’t welfare. This isn’t Obamaphones or whatever. This is the government securing the right to vote. That is part of its actual job.

                  False. It’s you being too lazy to walk your ass into a DMV.

                  3. Why do you view voting as a privilege that must be earned, rather than as a right?

                  Why do you insist on projecting your gluttony and sloth on to issues of national policy?

              2. Why should people have to dance to the government’s tune in overcoming barriers and hurdles when it comes to exercising the right to vote?

                1. Getting an ID isn’t a barrier fantasy. Youre claiming that over the course of a year someone can’t find an hour. Youre a lying fuck.

                  1. Tell that to the person living in the country who has to drive 2 hours to the nearest DMV office.

                    Again, why should we be the ones having to jump through the government’s hoops in order for us to be able to exercise our constitutional rights? Why shouldn’t they be falling all over themselves, bending over backwards, to make sure we have everything we need to exercise our rights?

                    1. Tell that to the person living in the country who has to drive 2 hours to the nearest DMV office.

                      There’s literally nowhere that this is the case, you fat moron.

                    2. Try living in Fields, Oregon. The nearest Oregon DMV office is 2 hours away. Google it if you don’t believe me.

                      Once again just because something is not true in your life doesn’t mean it is not true for others.

                    3. So now that we have established that there are actually people living in places for whom driving to a DMV office is not a mere 10-minute stroll, but a rather serious excursion, what do you intend to do for people living in places like Fields, Oregon, or elsewhere, to help facilitate their ability to vote? Do nothing? “If they aren’t willing to drive 2 hours to wait in line at a rural DMV office that is maybe open once a week to get an ID, then they don’t deserve to vote”?

                    4. .00001 of the country had to drive two hours – once in their lifetime – in orser to board a plane, drive on public roads, to be able to write a check, enter a government building, purchase alcohol or tobacco, or legal camnabis, take out a mortgage or car loan, enroll in medicarenor social security, enroll in a cellphone plan…..

                    5. Ironically jeff mentions driving on private roads but not getting an ID. SHHHHHH.

                    6. Tell that to the person living in the country who has to drive 2 hours to the nearest DMV office.

                      *If* they have to drive, they have a driver’s license and already make semi-annual trips to the DMV to license cars/trucks they may own.

                  2. It’s 1 time over 8 years and renewal is easy online, so that can be easily stretched another 8 years at least. I think you need a new photo after that…

            2. Hey smart boy. NO ONE can be emloyed wihtout presenting some sort of ID nd proividing their Social Security Number. What third world barrio are YOU talking about?
              Your rant is proof very few people uderstand how ridiculous the argument “it is a barrier” is in justifying not requireing ID to regicter to vote or actualy vote on election day.

              Fact is, can’t register to vote, get a driving licens,e travel by air, bet a bus pass, open a bank account, or deposit money into one, get any kind of credit card, a cell phone, buy a car, OR insure it, get a library card, get food tamps or social security or SSI, get health insurance, get admitted to any hospital or medical facility, rent a car, buy a car, enter a bar or tavern unless you really LOOK old, get telephone service, or online teevee or internet access, ride Amtrak or Greyhound or Bolt, set up an Uber or Lyft account or Air BnB, join the YMCA, become a member of a gun range, or sign up for a firearms training class, or internet service, Ca SOMEONE out there please tell me just WHO these people are that are prevented voting because they do NONE of my long list of everyday activities because they are not able to get ID… AND who are not legally within this country? The only class of people I can think of who fit all the long list if “can’t do” things are people who are not lawfully present within our borders. And that is precisely the group that MUST NOT VOTE.

              So kwitchyerbelliachin, the system is working.

              1. You are right that the vast majority of people already have ID’s of one form or another. So what is wrong with helping those few people who don’t have ID get it? As you say, ID’s are very useful, so those few people who don’t yet have it, they must have some significant barrier preventing them from getting it, right? So why not help to lower that barrier?

                And just to be real clear here, both you and I support the idea of using voter ID for identity verification, but you are still unwilling to lower barriers for otherwise eligible voters to help them get ID.

                This seems more and more to me that the drive on the right to require ID for voting has less to do with stopping voter fraud, and has more to do with an idea that the right to vote should be something that is *earned*, by successfully navigating the hurdles government places in the path of would-be voters. And I just fundamentally disagree with that entire notion.

        3. The stupidest thing about chemjeff’s argument is that peeps who live two hours away from a DMV and don’t have any ID is that are almost for sure in a rural area and are voting for pubs while chemjeff is obviously a pinko commie creep.

      4. Except free and fair elections are commanded in the Constitution. With absolutely zero evidence (but for incessant repetition of a “fact” which Sidney Powell now says “no reasonable person would believe”) for voter fraud on a scale that could possibly tip an election Never mind that almost 85% of the few dozen bogus ballots Countrywide were cast for Trump in the last election. Kris Kobach embarrassed the hell out of himself trying to prove something that his own report said was a non-issue.

        I have no problem insisting on voter ID. What I do a problem with is throwing up any barrier whatsoever that disenfranchises potential voters because some morons were willing to believe the KrakenLady when it felt good and now refuse to believe her when it really matters.

    4. Well, when the discussion is about voting rights, and you and others barge in with BUT WHATABOUT GUNZ????, that is rightly perceived as an attempt to troll and disrupt the conversation about voting.

      1. Your rule that everyone should only comment on the article is noted. Now, comment on this article.

      2. Not going to address it, are you? COWARD!

        1. I think the comment points out the dichotomy and hypocrisy of certain people worrying too much about a “potential slippery slope” of government infringement on guns while ignoring the very real and current threat to guaranteed free and fair elections. It makes it pretty clear that fear motivates a lot of libertarians while guaranteed rights they don’t like can be be freely taken away.

          1. Politicians will never greatly impede the right to vote; it’s how they get to keep and maintain the positions, which provide them with power (and a comfortable, lucrative career, if they decide to leave DC). Now, the right to keep AND bear arms? That’s a right that’s actually in danger.

  3. What a nice surprise even Reason wants our resident leftist cunt to sit down and shut the fuck up.

  4. Lying Jeffy hardest hit.

  5. Some countries make it super easy to vote, by threatening to throw you in jail if you don’t, and also extremely hard to buy a rifle. Gun control advocates should feel free to move to one of these fine places.

  6. Sources: Secret Service inserted itself into case of Hunter Biden’s gun
    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/25/sources-secret-service-inserted-itself-into-case-of-hunter-bidens-gun-477879

    On Oct. 23, 2018, President Joe Biden’s son Hunter and daughter in law Hallie were involved in a bizarre incident in which Hallie took Hunter’s gun and threw it in a trash can behind a grocery store, only to return later to find it gone.

    Delaware police began investigating, concerned that the trash can was across from a high school and that the missing gun could be used in a crime, according to law enforcement officials and a copy of the police report obtained by POLITICO.

    But a curious thing happened at the time: Secret Service agents approached the owner of the store where Hunter bought the gun and asked to take the paperwork involving the sale, according to two people, one of whom has firsthand knowledge of the episode and the other was briefed by a Secret Service agent after the fact.

    The gun store owner refused to supply the paperwork, suspecting that the Secret Service officers wanted to hide Hunter’s ownership of the missing gun in case it were to be involved in a crime, the two people said. The owner, Ron Palmieri, later turned over the papers to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, which oversees federal gun laws.

    …Hunter responded “no” to a question on the transaction record that asks, “Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?” Five years earlier, he had been discharged from the Navy Reserve after testing positive for cocaine, and he and family members have spoken about his history of drug use.

    Lying on the form is a felony, though prosecutions for it are exceedingly rare.

    Neither Hallie Biden nor George Mesires, a lawyer for Hunter Biden, responded to requests for comment.

    The gun-store incident occurred during a period after Hunter Biden’s administrative discharge from the Naval Reserves for his positive cocaine test and his subsequent divorce from his first wife, Kathleen. At the time of the gun incident, Hunter was in a romantic relationship with Hallie, the widow of his late brother, Beau.

    1. POLITICO obtained copies of the Firearms Transaction Record and a receipt for the gun dated Oct. 12, 2018.

  7. So, when I relocated (farewell to CA), I was registered to vote when I applied for a driver’s license (I had the option to opt-out). And I did vote. So, where is my Glock?….

    1. If leaving CA is anything like leaving IL you’re still registered to vote there (although you can no longer buy a gun there)

      1. Someone will even be kind enough to vote for him by proxy!

      2. you can check out anytime you like…

        1. In this case, it’s the other way around. You can leave but you can’t check out.

      3. My parents left CA five years ago, and my mother is now deceased. My sister (she’s living in their CA house) sent me a photo of both of their CA mail in ballots before the last election.

      4. Well, I DID get a bill for vehicle registration renewal a full year after I left CA. Does that count? The bill for my two vehicles in CA was over $600, for one year. The bill for TWO years in Oregon for the same vehicles? $244. Nobody wonders anymore, I think, why people who can leave CA are doing exactly that.

        1. Colorado has gotten fucking ridiculous with the vehicle registration fees as well–I don’t have the slips in front of me, but I believe the cost tripled between 2007 and 2012 after they tacked on a bunch of extra fees and shit.

          And of course, the Democrat-dominated Front Range can’t keep the roads fixed to save their life, but they can find plenty of money for light-rail lines that rarely meet rider projections (let’s not look into how many riders even bother to pay the ticket cost), while fucking over both urban bus riders who do actually use these services, and car owners alike.

          1. Colorado also doesn’t call it the DMV, they call it “The Department of Revenue”.

            The voters keep passing ballot initiatives that tack on new fees to pay for random shit. Blame your neighbors.

            1. Colorado also doesn’t call it the DMV, they call it “The Department of Revenue”.

              The state calls it that; any resident calling it that tends to get strange looks.

              The voters keep passing ballot initiatives that tack on new fees to pay for random shit. Blame your neighbors.

              Oh, trust me, that’s one of my favorite pastimes. It’s funny that the local journo-shits like to brag about how many people in the state have college degrees, because the more educated the state’s residents have gotten, the dumber the population actually becomes.

          2. Gods, but you aren’t kidding. The transition from Utah to Colorado the last time I had a load going that way on 70 nearly rattled my teeth out of my head.

  8. Well, it should be easier to get a rifle than to vote. No one needs to vote.

    1. Although it appears about to change, it is pretty easy to get a firearm in Oregon. I went down to the dealer, paid the money, got the background check, and took my two rifles home. In CA, this would require a “safety certificate,” a ten-day waiting period, and god-knows-what-else they have dreamed up in the mean time.

    2. It’s not just that. A person can buy a rifle and never ever point it at anyone. But a vote helps determine where an awful lot of guns will be pointed.

  9. So both sides? Except that for voting rights, neither side wants to take the right away completely.

    1. And voting is a political privilege of adulthood and citizenship, not a fundamental right like self-defense.

      1. denizenship

        “We find that some noncitizens participate in U.S. elections, and that this participation has been large enough to change meaningful election outcomes including Electoral College votes, and congressional elections,” wrote Jesse T. Richman, Gulshan A. Chattha, both of Old Dominion University, and David C. Earnest of George Mason University.

        More specifically, they write, “Noncitizen votes likely gave Senate Democrats the pivotal 60th vote needed to overcome filibusters in order to pass health care reform and other Obama administration priorities in the 111th Congress.”

        1. although frankly at this point would happily let illegals vote if they paid federal taxes in the past year, as long as we could impose the same requirement on everyone else

        2. So they’re insurrectionists?

      2. That is actually right. The 2nd Amendment applies to “the People,” and not just to citizens. Though, I would argue, that for citizens, the right is “fundamental.”

  10. And if you lie on the form and say you don’t use illicit drugs, that’s a five-year felony.

    Unless your last name is Biden.

    1. Recall Petitions = Voting Ballots?

    2. I live in CA and don’t like a lot things and it, but you would never expect petition signatures to get accepted at the same rate as mail in ballot signatures. Petition signers are frequently morons who sign the petition multiple times, don’t live in the state, or don’t provide the right information, and never hears what comes of it. By contrast, you only get one ballot, you had to have been a resident at some point, and the required info is printed right on the envelope. If you screw up, they send you a letter (I once got a letter saying they almost didn’t count my ballot because my signature was so bad) so you learn to do better next time. The latter is clearly going to have a lower reject rate than the former.

  11. “In Washington, D.C., the requirements for legally owning a gun are sufficiently cumbersome that many have simply given up. While the pandemic came with gun-buying fervor across the country, in D.C., the only federal firearm licensee who could legally authorize the transfer or acquisition of guns abruptly stopped business. ”

    ah yes the Japanese solution: license the guns, then make licenses increasingly difficult to obtain

    Year Regulation/Decree
    1629:
    The use of guns for the control of pests was permitted upon submission of a written declaration that the gun would be used properly.

    1645:
    The use of guns in Edo (Tokyo) was prohibited except by gun officials.

    1662:
    The possession of guns other than by hunters was prohibited. Hunters were registered and prohibited from renting out guns to others.

    1676:
    Crackdowns on illegal gun possessors would be conducted

    1685:
    Persons who turned in or reported shooters of illegal guns would be rewarded.

    1687:
    Villages without hunters were allowed to rent guns.

    1717:
    Even hunters were prohibited from possessing guns in Edo and its outskirts. Guns could be rented for pest control for limited periods.

    1729:
    The rental conditions imposed in 1717 were tightened: the gun rental period would be for one year, a rental document would have to be submitted annually, and the number of boars and deer taken in the previous year had to be reported.[5]

    1. Went from having very well trained musketeers that helped Nobunaga attain power, and at Sekigahara (not that it helped Ishida any) to a total ban in what, 90 years after Ieyasu won? Suprising they let hunters keep using them, TBH.

      The wiki on Japanese matchlocks is an interesting one: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanegashima_(gun)

  12. As I said in the previous discussion, a right that has too many burdens placed upon its exercise is no longer a right. That applies just as much to voting rights as it does to gun rights. The state should make it as easy as reasonably possible for citizens to enjoy their gun rights. A vote is different than a gun, but the same general principle applies.

    However, just like with voting, if people use guns irresponsibly or carelessly, or if people commit crimes with guns (or in the case of voting, commit voter fraud), then there will be very natural reactions to want to make both voting rights and gun rights more secure, meaning, that only those people legally allowed to own guns, or vote, actually exercise those rights. And with many of these reactions, the pendulum can swing the other way, potentially disenfranchising legal voters, or potentially prohibiting otherwise lawful potential gun owners from owning guns.

    So in the case of voting, I favor the government bending over backwards to make sure people have the proper tools to allow them to vote in a secure and responsible manner, such as with voter ID. It is the same with guns. I favor the government bending over backwards to make sure people have the proper tools to allow them to own and use guns in a secure and responsible manner. I would be okay with the government subsidizing gun safety classes, or trigger locks, or gun safes. I am generally okay now with what the government does to facilitate safe and orderly hunting seasons. These things can help facilitate the rights that governments are supposed to protect.

    1. So get rid of all the regulations to purchase guns?

      1. No, just like I don’t favor getting rid of all the regulations to vote. There should still be something like a voter ID requirement to vote, and so there should still be something like a criminal background check for buying a gun. But those processes should be as painless and as easy as possible.

        1. So all regulations except a background check? And what all should exclude someone from passing a background check? Anything besides violent felonies?

          1. I don’t have an exhaustive list of regulations. I’m willing to listen to any argument one way or another. I’m simply enunciating a broad principle here. Do you have a suggestion as to which regulations on guns are reasonable and which ones are not?

            1. Yes. Everyone should be allowed to buy any gun, unless they’ve been convicted of a violent felony and having their 2nd Amendment rights taken is part of their sentence.

              1. What about mentally ill individuals?
                What should be the minimum age for purchasing a gun?
                What about citizens vs. noncitizens? Do you make a distinction?

                1. What about them?
                  Whatever the age of consent in a particular state is.
                  No.

                  1. Well, I do have a problem with the violently mentally ill having an unfettered right to buy a gun. They lack the mental ability to know when it is appropriate to use a gun.

                    Would you do anything, either voluntarily or via state action, to encourage gun owners to use their guns responsibly?

                    1. “the violently mentally ill having”

                      They should not be walking freely. So I agree, no guns in psych hospitals/prison.

                      “Would you do anything, either voluntarily or via state action, to encourage gun owners to use their guns responsibly?”

                      I already do, voluntarily. As does everyone I know that owns a gun. As far as state action, maybe, again after due process, the state by way of sentencing decided that an individual should be required to take a training on gun safety.

                      How about you, Jeff?

                    2. Well I think there are other types of mental illness, that don’t necessarily require confinement in a hospital, that would be problematic. But I broadly agree.

                      How about you, Jeff?

                      See above.

                    3. “problematic”

                      What does this even mean in a conversation about restricting inalienable rights from individuals?

                    4. Well, the reason why children are not considered adults legally, is, broadly, because they lack the capacity to fully understand and take responsibility for the decisions that they are making. For certain adults with mental illnesses, this can also be true. It depends on the nature and the severity of the illness of course. That is why I say it is problematic. There is a gray area corresponding people who are not necessarily violent or a danger to others, but who are also not necessarily fully “adult” in a cognitive sense. This is a difficult issue not just with guns but for all tasks that require adult responsibilities. It would be the same for driver’s licenses, or a license to operate a forklift.

                    5. There are Mental Health professionals who believe that your wanting to own a gun is a mental illness itself.

            2. Her, let me help you with that.
              A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.
              Hope that clears it up for you.

  13. Another way of putting it do we really want people who can’t figure out how to get a state ID voting in any election?

    Nah let’s make sure every dumb fuck gets a ballot in the mail (at least the ones who don’t live in a van down by the river) and while we’re at it make sure they’re on juries deciding someone’s fate in complicated cases.

  14. No, Padilla’s remark does not ignore the ‘reality of gun control in the UNited States’, it exemplifies it.

    How so?

    Irr

  15. Padilla is obviously correct that it is easier to obtain a gun than to vote! So while congress is redoing voting regulations, let’s make it as easy to vote as it is to get a gun:

    1 Background checks to eliminate felons, domestic abusers, drug users and the mentally ill.
    2. Signature and proof of residence.
    3. 10 year penalty for lying on a voter registration form.

    This should simplify voting and guarantee that only suitable individuals will be allowed to vote.

    1. 1. Define “drugs”
      2. Reasonable
      3. Reasonable

  16. Not one statement in the article supported the headline. In fact, despite the constant distractions it threw out, it proved the fact that in many states legally buying a gun at a show requires only on thing, a wad of cash. In some cases those same states require government ID to vote. All the stuff about how some people are not allowed to own guns (which might be a bad thing) was distraction from the fact the article headline is a straight up lie.

    1. Use Armslist and you don’t even have to pay for the show.

      1. Obviously someone who has never used Armslist, but is going to comment anyway. If I buy a firearm off from anyone in 49 states, that firearm sale and receiving has to go thru a federal firearms dealer in my state, which requires a full background check, as if I bought it from the dealer in the first place.

    2. But that is not what Padilla said, eh. He didn’t say “some few guns at some gun shows”.

  17. When I first moved to my present state, I wanted to buy a rifle. I hopped into my trusty rusty old sedan, drive INTO the next state, walked into a sporting goods/hardware/gun store, saw one I liked, said “I’ll take that one” it was marked on sale for $79.95. He put theone I had seen back on the rack, walked into the back, came back with one still in its sealed carton from the gunmaker. I plopped four $20 bills on the counter, he banked a few keys on his cash register, kaching, put the four twenties in the till fetched up a nickel and plopped that on top of the box containing the rifle. Neither of us bothered to open and “verify” that the serial number stamped on the gun matched the label on the box. What difference would that make? Whatever was in the box was now MINE. He handed me a cash register recepit that showed SOMEONE had paid $79.95 for SOMETHING. He never even knew my first name. Neither of us cared. His store WAS at that time a licensed FFL dealer.
    I took the gun home, still have it, and no government agency ever learned that I have it.. which is all fine, that’s how things worked then.

    Around that same time I called up the county regisrar of voters she sent me a form in the mail, I filled that out and mailed it, postage paid, back. I was registered to vote in that same state. When I moved some years later to a different county, I simply called the new registrar and sent in the change of addres form she sent me.

    In SHARO contrast now in that same state where buying a rifle was as complicated and invasive as buying a tennis racket, I now have to go to a gun store like i did before.. but ONLY in my own state. Cannot cross that imaginary line to any other state. I pick out what I want, tel them “Illl take this one”. Fisr demand is my driving license, which I surrender HE takes it… somewhere. AFTER handing me a twopage document that takes me a good ten minutes to fill out. It wants the serial number of the gun I want to buy ON THE FORM. I am advised to wait “out there”, we’ll call you when its ready. After half an hour or so, when he’s finally managed to get throuhgh on the busy phone lines, I am called back. You passed (duhhhh… if not I’d likey be in jail) So, I pay, NOW. BUT.. thanks to the infinite Whizz Dumb of our state government, I cannot take home the new rifle I just bought and paid for AND submitted to the background check (hey I hold a commercial driving license, if I had a record that would prevent me from buying a gun, I’d have that license revoked and no longer be able to drive big rigs. BUT.. Whix Dumb and all, I have to now come back to that store after at least ten days THEN I can take my new rifle home.

    Oh, and if I amcuaght buying or selling ANY firarm EXCEPT by wading through this intrusive time consuming and insulting process, I have just committed a new felony. EVEN IF you were tocome pay me a visit and want to take a few shots at tin cans in my backyard suing MY gun,while I am here with you.

    So, enough of this insanity “easier to buy a gun than to vote”. MY own personal expereince proves that FALSE.
    IF these pawl uh TISH ins can lie to us like that what else are they lying to me about? Riddle me that one, Lucy.

  18. A no check private sale IS easier than voting.

      1. What Padilla said was even more retarded than expected. “It takes less time to get a rifle than for a new voter to cast their first ballot.”

        The fact that there aren’t elections every fucking day might have something to do with that… if there’s no interim elections, a “new voter” might well have to wait months to vote because the election doesn’t happen for months.

  19. If vote by mail is safe (because mailed ballots are only supposed to be mailed to, and mailed from, a non-prohibited person), then it’s also safe to have a firearm shipped to the same address a mailed ballot.

    One’s legal, and the other isn’t; either both are safe, or neither is safe.

    Democrats are Malignant cancerous cells that seek to outnumber, overtake and overwhelm the healthy cells of our freedoms, money and children. (Since Democrats now capitalize “black,” I now capitalize “Malignant” and “Malignants.”)

    Mass shootings are yet another consequence of Democrat majorities.
    In Boulder County (where the city of Boulder is located), since 2004, the Democrat nominee for U.S. President has received a minimum of 66% of the vote; Biden got 77% last year. In the county, there are 96,319 active registered Democrats, and 36,302 active registered Republicans.
    The mayor, and all eight council members of the city of Boulder, are
    “nonpartisan,” but the Rorschach Test of the Homo sapiens species—social
    media—revealed that all are Democrats. On their social media, here’s what I
    found:
    Comparing the hunting and killing of prairie dogs to the Holocaust;
    Obama alum;
    A pronouns obsessive;
    Gay pride;
    And, last but not least: wear a mask, mentioned two trillion times.
    The suspect’s name was one of the last bits of information I acquired; I thought: uh-oh, we better soon figure out how to make a guy named Ahmad Al Aliwi Alissa a lily-white militia member, with a secret manifesto about the Lost Cause of the Confederacy that’s read at the local Aryan Nations cross-burning book club.
    Atlanta, site of the massage parlor shootings a few weeks ago, has elected only Democrat mayors for nearly 52,000 consecutive days; its 16-member city council is “nonpartisan,” but online searches and public statements strongly suggest that they’re all Democrats. Atlanta is the county seat of Fulton; Georgia does not register voters by party. The Democrat nominee for President has won the county every election since 1976; the margin of victory this past November was 46 percent.
    All Democrat majorities are malignant—no exceptions.

  20. Gunownership is a constitutionally protected civil liberty. Casting a vote is not. The comparison is apples to oranges, but not for the reason the people making it think.

  21. If the gun controllers stopped lying about firearms, firearm owners, and firearm laws it would render them speechless.

  22. Bringing voting requirements and rifle purchase requirements to parity in the middle would be a damned fine improvement to both.

  23. Do you know how to buy a gun “on the street?” If you do, reader, you’re a lawyer who knows those who can point them, or a cop who can lean on street denizens or property clerks to find a “plant piece” if needed.

    Do those who grew up “in the neighborhoods” read this blog? Only lawyers and cops. The overwhelming majority of “gun crime” finds root in those who do not frequent these pages.

  24. Depends on where you are. In Australia and Brazil, everyone–cretins, imbeciles, lawyers, politicians… even workers–is forced at gunpoint to vote for anything BUT a libertarian party candidate. Get on the Brazilian internet to look for a BB gun and all you find is books about BB guns. Same goes for real guns. The cops have guns, and armored cars are routinely knocked over by men with 50-caliber machine guns and smaller firepower with armor-piercing ammo. All the parties communist or fascist and only looters have guns.

  25. “No, It’s Not Easier To Get a Rifle Than Vote”

    Further,
    “Did you know 25% of American kids go hungry?!”
    “Did you know Trump disbanded the pandemic response team?!”
    “Did you know the rich don’t pay much income tax?!”
    “Did you know there’s a crisis in anti-Asian attacks?!”
    “Did you know Trump told people to drink bleach for the Wu Flu?!”
    If turd, Tony, trueman or jeff posts it here, it’s odds on to be absolutely and completely false. Either ignore it, or spend a minute finding a link to reality and post it.
    If M4e WK or Big bullshitter posts it here, make sure you get the context, especially if it concerns Trump; those and other TDS-addled shits are thus rendered total shit-shovelers, and given their collective imbecility, it’s a good chance it extends to many other subjects. Most stupid people are stupid regarding a *LOT* of subjects.
    Regardless, either ignore it, or spend a couple of seconds finding a link to reality and post it.
    CNN? NYT? WaPo? CBS? SF Chron? Ha and ha! FOX? A bit better, but…
    Search and (as one of my instructors said: “That’s why it’s called…’) research.
    Example: Suez Canal blockage:
    “Could last for weeks!”
    “Could be cleared Saturday!”
    If you have any familiarity with marine salvers, and saw the images of the Egyptian government’s attempt to dig the ship’s bow out of the sand with the same front loader used to work on clearing a residential lot, you knew that the Egyptian government was hoping a bucket brigade would put out the house fire.
    Typical government fuck-up; Call Smitts or one of their competitors. You’ll have a reliable schedule and a stated cost, but, since it’s Egypt, money up front!
    And how would you (or they) possibly know this? Well, if you don’t know, you can apply for the replacement position for that asshole who hates Mormons; you deserve it.
    Let’s start with the observation that “continuing education” is not Twitter.
    How many feet of bookshelf have you? If it’s less than a hundred for all subjects (ignoring fiction), you are full of shit unless you are commenting on a specific subject which is your focus. Period.

    1. Did you know you are an idiot that believes lies?

      Math scores have been flat since 2009 and reading scores since 1998, with just about a third of students performing at a level the NAEP defines as “proficient.” US News Decline came long before Trump was in office, began in Obama years.

      “Did you know 25% of American kids go hungry?!”
      A Turning Point for Hunger in America
      A change in that attitude was signaled in May of 1969, when President Richard Nixon addressed Congress with a message that exposed the problem:
      But in the past few years we have awakened to the distressing fact that despite our material abundance and agricultural wealth, many Americans suffer from malnutrition. Time Magazine Hunger has been around a long time. Carter, Clinton and Obama failed to find the solution too. It did not start with Trump, and I can guarantee you it won’t end with Biden’s open borders, only increase.

      “Did you know Trump disbanded the pandemic response team?!”
      Fact check: White House didn’t fire pandemic response unit when it was disbanded in 2018 USA Today No it wasn’t.

      “Did you know the rich don’t pay much income tax?!”
      Those in the lowest income quintile, earning up to $23,000 for a single person, actually get money back from the federal government; while middle-class earners in the fourth quintile, with income of $58,000 to $89,000 for singles, pay a rate of 6.7%; and the rich, the top 1% of earners taking home $387,000 or more, pay 23.7%. money.com Rich pay a lot more than you do.

      “Did you know there’s a crisis in anti-Asian attacks?!”
      Blacks Attack Asians, Both Blame Whites & March Against White Supremacy
      In 2018, there were 182,230 reports of Asians being victims of violent crime. The race of the offenders against Asians is as follows: 24% White and 28% Black. With that said, the U.S. population is 62% Caucasian, so you would think Caucasians would be committing more violent crimes against Asians. The black population is 12%, Hispanics are 17%, and Asians are 6% of the U.S. population. Washington Examiner, Those would be Biden supporters.

      “Did you know Trump told people to drink bleach for the Wu Flu?!”
      No, Trump didn’t tell Americans infected with the coronavirus to drink bleach. Trump said maybe bleach could be used to develop some kind of medicine.

      No one here is going to believe your lies or read the liberal lying sites you posted. You are certifably nuts, TDS.
      Was Trump perfect? Hell no, but no other President has been either. The difference is he has been the most lied about President in history.

      1. Sorry, forgot my source for:
        “Did you know Trump told people to drink bleach for the Wu Flu?!”
        No, Trump didn’t tell Americans infected with the coronavirus to drink bleach.
        Politifact.

        Time, USA Today, Politifact, US News, money.com. These are hardly conservative sites that supported Trump, yet they expose your lies.

        1. Ummmm……. you new here?

          1. No, i have been here for years. I remember when Reasons post got about 10 comments from actual Libertarians arguing what it meant to be a libertarian. I hadn’t posted much for a long time due to the spam. I also find few actual libertarians here, mostly frustrated conservatives and liberal trolls.

  26. No, It’s Not Easier To Get a Rifle Than Vote….However, it should be.

  27. The other one you hear is “I have to register my car, so why not guns?

    But you don’t have to license or register your car unless you plan to drive it on the public highways. Buy it, put it on a trailer, and haul it to the racetrack, and you can drive all day as fast as you can without any government license or registration. You, as the driver, might have to have a competition license or sign a few forms, but the government’s not involved.

    The closest analogy might be that you have to have a license to drive on public roads, just like you generally have to have a license to carry a firearm in public.

  28. At first I thought “easier to buy a gun than vote” is silly, but then I thought back. I sold guns for a sporting goods store when I was in school, and the parking is easier to buy a gun, the lines are shorter to buy a gun, the process itself is faster. …maybe it is easier.

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