Afghanistan

Let's Finally Get Out of Afghanistan

The Biden administration should take advantage of the opportunity to cut our losses instead of continuing the forever war.

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According to reports, the new Biden administration and our allies in NATO are inclined to break the agreement to withdraw troops from Afghanistan by May. The change in direction is attributed to recent violence in the country, but almost 20 years into this forever war, it's obvious that there will always be enough turbulence in the region to justify intervention for those who want it. With the U.S. military presence at a tantalizingly low level after two decades of fighting, ignoring the withdrawal deadline threatens to become a missed opportunity for cutting our losses and trying something different.

Since many of the troops now serving in Afghanistan were born after the U.S. invaded the country, it's worth pointing out that the intervention was a response to the Taliban regime's support of al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden after the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The Taliban was formally deposed by the end of 2001 and replaced by a nominally democratic, western-allied government. But the new rulers appear incapable of holding power without outside support and the fighting has never ended.

"Although almost exactly a year ago the United States entered with some fanfare into a withdrawal agreement with the Taliban, peace talks between the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan and the Taliban have so far yielded few substantive results," the Special Investigator General for Afghanistan Reconstruction's 50th quarterly report to Congress noted just last week. "There has been no cease-fire agreement and high levels of insurgent and extremist violence continued in Afghanistan this quarter despite repeated pleas from senior U.S. and international officials to reduce violence in an effort to advance the peace process."

As a result, a NATO official told Reuters that "conditions have not been met. And with the new U.S. administration, there will be tweaks in the policy, the sense of hasty withdrawal which was prevalent will be addressed and we could see a much more calculated exit strategy."

The Biden administration had earlier promised "to review the February 2020 U.S.-Taliban agreement" negotiated by the Trump administration with an eye to halting or reversing the Trump administration's draw-down of troops to the lowest levels since the 2001 invasion. The new president will "assess whether the Taliban was living up to its commitments to cut ties with terrorist groups, to reduce violence in Afghanistan, and to engage in meaningful negotiations with the Afghan government and other stakeholders."

The Department of Defense appears to have already made a decision.

"The Taliban have not met their commitments," Pentagon Press Secretary John F. Kirby announced on January 28. "Without them meeting our commitments to renounce terrorism and to stop the violent attacks on the Afghan National security forces and by dint of that the Afghan people, it's very hard to see a specific way forward for the negotiated settlement."

But we've been here before. Eight years after the initial invasion of Afghanistan, the Obama administration deployed tens of thousands of new troops to the country as part of an overall increase of the American presence. As vice president at the time, Joe Biden vowed, "we will leave in 2014." Instead, then-President Obama kept troops in place and even expanded their authority to fight the Taliban.

Almost five years later, 20 years into the invasion, after thousands of U.S. military and over 100,000 civilian casualties, there's still no convincing plan to turn Afghanistan into a stable and peaceful country. Maybe it's time to try a different approach.

"There has been growing public interest in rethinking the U.S. role in the world," RAND Corporation analysts noted in a recent and very timely report. "Under one option, a realist grand strategy of restraint, the United States would adopt a more cooperative approach toward other powers, reduce the size of its military and forward military presence, and end or renegotiate some of its security commitments."

The RAND report discusses some specific recommendations for leaving Afghanistan no matter the country's continuing turbulence. Despite early hopes to the contrary, it points out, "advocates of restraint have long accepted that the Taliban will play an important role in the future of Afghanistan." One cited expert with that opinion is John Glaser, the Cato Institute's director of foreign policy studies.

"Even as America announces her impending withdrawal from Afghanistan, she still helplessly clings to the very fantasies that have kept her bogged down in this quagmire for nearly 20 years," Glaser wrote last March. "We have not remade Afghan politics. We have not established a stable, democratic, independent government in Kabul. We have not defeated the Taliban."

"Exiting the war should be the priority, regardless of conditions on the ground," Glaser adds.

Importantly, the RAND analysts don't discuss restraint only in relation to Afghanistan, but as part of a big overall shift away from military intervention. While the arguments for restrained foreign policy predate recent events, they've become more urgent as "the United States is facing several national security challenges at the same time that the federal budget is under pressure because of public health and infrastructure crises."

That is, the forever war in Afghanistan may be an especially pressing example of the case for reducing America's expensive—in lives and money—military commitments. But the same arguments apply to dealings in other regions and with other conflicts, and these arguments "have taken on new urgency because of the direct costs and broader economic effects of responding" to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Undoubtedly, it's frustrating for policymakers to concede defeat and walk away from messes partially of their own making. But two decades of failure should be evidence enough that an approach won't work—especially when it was first attempted at a time of greater resources than are now available.

The U.S. and its allies have a deal in place for, finally, getting out of Afghanistan. After 20 years of intervening without remaking the place, it's time for the U.S. to cut its losses and leave the country's people to decide their own fate.

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  3. Yes, get outta there. Those troops and resources are going to be needed in Syria, Yemen, Iraq…

    1. D.C. – – – – – –

      1. don’t be silly. the conservative troops will be sent overseas. the liberal troops will defend the capitol.

        1. Sent to the Eastern Front.

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  4. “But two decades of failure should be evidence enough that an approach won’t work—especially when it was first attempted at a time of greater resources than are now available.”

    Our government does not process information in this manner. Two decades of failure simply means they were not trying hard enough. Another two decades should do it.

    1. “We have always been at war in Afghanistan.”

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  5. DAmn, and to think, if only Trump had gotten a second term, we’d be out of Afghanistan. Shane Reason couldn’t give a full throated support for peace when it actually mattered.

    1. Reason didn’t even support libertarianism when it mattered. Amazing what brown envelopes and peer pressure can do to a magazine’s principles.

    2. Yeah, it’s all Reason’s fault. Do you really think that the 10,000 readers they may have affected could have turned the tide against the millions who came out of the woodwork to vote for Biden? Wasn’t that Trump’s job (he’s a p.r. genius, right?) and that of the millions of Trump activists in the grass roots? Did Trump, himself, ever mention Afghanistan during the debates?

      1. Tell me about that first debate, again.

      2. Nobody is saying it is “all” Reason’s fault. But, as a libertarian magazine, their myopia on the issue is inexcusable. Completely fucking inexcusable.

        1. If you take away hyperbole then creech really doesn’t have the ability to make an argument.

  6. Forget about it. SleepyJoe has a war boner.

    1. First one he’s had in years.

    2. Without war, our economy is right down the flusher. The leaders of this nation found out how profitable war is with Korea and the many little conflicts since then. The industrial complex makes billions from war and it’s the industrial complex, along with others, that keep the coffers of politicians, both sides, full of cash. Trump was the exception, he didn’t need their money. He didn’t allow the puppetmasters that control DC to attach strings to him. He was exposing those on both sides of the aisle for what they had become. We may never have a chance at doing that again.

  7. Biden violating the peace agreement with the Taliban was not only foreseeable but also foreseen.

    It should be noted that the media did a terrible job of informing the voters this election cycle. I suspect the average American still doesn’t know that Trump signed a full withdrawal agreement with the Taliban ten months ago–or that we were scheduled to get out of Afghanistan by the end of April. Every journalist who thinks this is an important issue now but hardly bothered to mention it before the election should be ashamed of themselves.

    To whatever extent your denialism contributed to Trump’s loss and Biden’s win, you also contributed to us being in Afghanistan forever. Shame on you!

    1. “It should be noted that the media did a terrible job of informing the voters this election cycle.”

      The media did not merely do a bad job of informing voters, they actively misled voters and, sensing that pointing the voters in the wrong direction was not in itself sufficient, engaged in broad and coordinated campaigns of censorship in order to bury criticism of Biden, his questionable dealings, his inane policies, and nearly five decades of documented graft.

      I admire your writing, Ken. But, in this particular instance, you are being far too diplomatic.

      1. Don’t forget covering for Biden’s failing health.

      2. Why weren’t they asking Biden this question point blank?

        If Biden had been forced to answer the question of whether he would abide by Trump’s agreement with the Taliban and withdraw all troops from Afghanistan by the end of April, he might have been forced to promise that he would withdraw by the terms of the agreement.

        And if he’d been forced to say that he would withdraw, he might have felt compelled to withdraw. At the very least, there would be a higher political price to pay for not withdrawing.

        The reason so many journalists never bothered to put this question to him certainly isn’t because it just never occurred to them. They only wanted to give him softball questions. That being said, when the neocons were pushing their bill to limit Trump’s ability to withdraw our troops to level below 8,500, candidate Biden stated that he supported keeping 8,500 troops there indefinitely.

        Far as I can tell, the question was never put to him again.

        1. Let us assume they did ask. What would Biden’s response have been?

          In my opinion, Biden’s response would probably have been something along the lines of his response to the question of whether he supported packing the Supreme Court.

          “This is just a distraction, and the people do not deserve to know my position because Donald Trump is the real problem, so let’s not lose sight of the problem.”

          Most major media outlets were completely fine with that response, and they would have been just as fine with that response to any question about Afghanistan.

          You are criticizing media for not asking the right questions. You should be criticizing them for not actually giving a shit about the answers.

          1. The mysterious answer about not being willing to pack the Court meant to me that he wasn’t willing to promise not to pack the Court. If not packing the Court is important to me as a voter, then that’s a good reason not to vote for Biden–and a good reason to vote for Trump. If Trump differentiated himself from Biden on his forthright willingness to withdraw all troops from Afghanistan, then Biden should pay the price for not being willing to do that.

            1. Biden never had to give a mysterious non-committal answer because the question was never put to him–far as I can tell.

              1. Even if Biden had said he were to keep Trumps aggrement to remove troops he could also just as likely later say, as they are now saying. things have changed and violence has increased due to our withdrawll we must build back up.

                1. Yes, and there would be a political price to pay for going against his word.

                  The reason Biden didn’t make a promise without being asked is because there’s a political price to pay for taking one side or the other and because there’s a political risk involved if he needs to go back on his word later.

                  There’s no political price to pay. It’s not even a version of, “We’ve always been at war with Eastasia”. There’s no history to rewrite. This is the first time most people are even hearing about it, and in plenty of places, it’s being treated like the question is whether Biden should negotiate with the Taliban–as if there weren’t already an agreement in place!

                  1. “Washington currently finds itself, by realpolitik necessity, negotiating with the same force—the Taliban—that it sent troops to Afghanistan to overthrow.”

                    —-Brian Doherty, March 2021 Issue of Reason

                    https://reason.com/2021/02/01/a-practical-wish-list-for-joe-biden/

                    What the hell is he talking about?

                    We’re not in negotiations. That agreement was negotiated and signed by President Trump ten months ago–and both the Taliban and the Trump administration have abided by the core tenets of that deal since the day it was signed.

                    The Taliban is in negotiations with the U.S. backed government in Kabul, but that isn’t “Washington” in negotiations with the Taliban.

                    1. Wait and see what the Taliban does come May 1st if the U.S. hasn’t fully withdrawn from Afghanistan by then.

                      The Taliban hasn’t targeted a single American in Afghanistan since the day Trump signed the withdrawal agreement. The moment it becomes clear to them that Biden has no intention of withdrawing our troops, they will resume a state of war.

                      The Taliban doesn’t share the press’ TDS issue. An agreement is an agreement regardless of how much the U.S. press hates Trump, and if we violate the agreement, then the Taliban will react accordingly. The press is the same way with economics–as if the consequences of Chavez nationalizing the grocery stores and setting food prices below market were somehow mysterious.

                      The consequences of Biden violating the agreement with the Taliban are both foreseeable and foreseen.

                  2. “Yes, and there would be a political price to pay for going against his word.”

                    Come on, Ken.

                    Biden has a track record of graft in government going back longer than I’ve been alive … and nobody that voted for him cared one bit about it. They knew. Everybody fucking knew, and they still voted for him.

                    Truth is not a disinfectant.

                    1. I’m not sure they did know.

                      Much of the story about Hunter Biden was suppressed in 2016–even if they covered Hunter peddling influence for his father back in 2008.

                      “A son of Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden was paid an undisclosed amount of money as a consultant by MBNA, the largest employer in Delaware, during the years the senator supported legislation that was promoted by the credit card industry and opposed by consumer groups . . . BNA’s consulting payments to Hunter Biden, first reported by The New York Times, followed his departure in 2001 from the company, where he had been an executive.

                      At the time Hunter Biden was receiving consulting payments from MBNA, he also was a Washington lobbyist at a firm he had co-founded.

                      MBNA employees have poured more than $200,000 into Biden’s Senate campaigns over the past two decades, making donors working for the credit card company the senator’s largest source of campaign money.

                      https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mbna-paid-bidens-son-as-biden-backed-bill/

                      I doubt Hunter will stop peddling influence on behalf of his father now that his father has more influence to peddle, too.

              2. If only either debate moderator felt that foreign policy was as important as climate change to ask any questions on the topic…

          2. Biden would have told us about the onion he wore on his belt which was the style at that time

  8. Hasn’t Reason been ignoring Trump’s Afghanistan deal for almost a year? What happened all of a sudden?

    1. They were focused on all the middle east peace treaties he facilitated.

      Not buying it, huh?

    2. Trump isn’t in office anymore, that’s what happened.

      Mission accomplished.

      1. How many soldiers will have to die in Afghanistan because Reason didn’t like mean tweets?

  9. hahahahahahahaha. Good luck. Trump tried to leave Syria and the military industrial complex basically committed treason and sedition to stop him from withdrawing completely.

    1. Biden is the military industrial complex.

      1. Politicians, foremost, have a responsibility to the states that they were elected to represent, and not to an administration that is using them as fodder for party-wide platitudes. Democrat or Republican is incidental to the fact that certain states would suffer profound economic consequences should they foster and support many of these changes. Slowly but surely, state autonomy is being stripped away. This should alarm any reasonable person. Read More.

      2. Biden is the military industrial complex.

        Biden is whoever the highest bidder needs him to be.

        1. He’s a prop.
          Nothing more, nothing less.

    2. Local story.

    3. That’s the funny part. Mattis actually legally performed sedition. But he’s a “hero”.

    4. ” the military industrial complex basically committed treason and sedition to stop him from withdrawing completely.”

      Well sure, but nobody put their feet up on Nancy Pelosi’s chair.

      Which, if you read Reason, would seem to be the greater threat to liberty.

      1. Chair, desk, whatever.

        Oh and hey, remember when Pelosi herself contacted the Joint Chiefs and tried to get them to not obey the CiC?

        Just don’t call that insurrection.

  10. Drawing down in Afghanistan was Trump’s doing, so I’m sure Biden will issue an executive order reversing it.

  11. Why do you think the Lincoln Project neocons wanted Biden in and Trump out so badly? It wasn’t to end any wars.

    1. Ding ding ding!

  12. I don’t know who you mean by “us”, but I’ve already pulled all my troops out of Afghanistan. If you want to pull all your troops out of Afghanistan, go right ahead.

  13. Oh look, another Afghanistan article that fail to mention that last July:
    House Democrats, Working With Liz Cheney, Restricted Trump’s Planned Withdrawal of Troops From Afghanistan and Germany

    You’d think that would be a key point in an article about how it’s finally time for the US to be getting out of Afghanistan.

    1. This Cheney woman sure seems to get around.

  14. there has never not been violence in the middle east hence they use that excuse to stay. get out and let them kill each other

  15. Biden was elected because he’s a ‘return to normalcy’ 2Chile – this is the normal they were voting for.

  16. “The Biden administration should take advantage of the opportunity to cut our losses instead of continuing the forever war.”

    The whole pitch of this article is off.

    The American people didn’t need to depend on the Biden administration to withdraw from Afghanistan. They simply could have voted for Trump, and then what the Biden administration wanted to do in Afghanistan wouldn’t have mattered at all. We’d be out of Afghanistan by the end of April come hell or high water.

    The American people are to blame for this. They were misinformed and angry about the economy, the pandemic, and the lockdowns, and they were obsessed with other issues like what was happening in Portland and Minneapolis. Still, the American people could have chosen to get out of Afghanistan. It was up to them, and they failed.

    Also, we failed as libertarians. We tried to persuade our friends, coworkers, and family to vote to get out of Afghanistan, but our friends and family, like so many journalists, were distracted by the pandemic, the lockdowns, and Trump’s devastating omni significant tweets. Let’s figure out what we did wrong with our friends and family, and try not to make the same mistakes next time.

    For instance, we should have excoriated journalists with TDS in much harsher terms. When President Trump said that the press is the enemy of the American people, he was right! That isn’t the way it should be, but if they’re contemptuous of average Americans and will do anything and everything they can to shut us up and ignore our opposition against their awful plans, then the press is the enemy of the American people. That’s what they chose to be.

    And there are so many people who hate the press right now.
    Expecting conservatives to stand up for freedom of the press right now is like expecting the victims of terrorism to come out big against torturing terrorists. Saving free speech may depend on honest libertarians and conservatives who are willing to stand up and call the press out for being the enemy of the American people. It’s like Orwell excoriating Stalinism in order to save socialism.

    The misuse of firearms in crimes isn’t an excellent argument against law abiding citizens being free to exercise their Second Amendment rights–99% of whom never aim a gun at anybody. And the horrible job the press has done over the last four years shouldn’t be considered an excellent argument against freedom of the press. Criminals who use firearms in the commission of crimes should be condemned by libertarians and conservatives who support the Second Amendment, and private news organizations that use the press against the American people should be condemned by all of us who support freedom of the press, too.

    Tens of thousands of journalists lost their jobs in 2020, and that’s a good start.

    1. If I can direct you to the calendar at the corner of your screen; the election is over. Donald Trump is officially irrelevant.

      1. He started a movement, and got in the way of grift that was so important the true power structure had to reveal itself for the first time. Crazy ass thing to witness in real time.
        He’s still relevant as hell.

      2. He’s already exposed you as the enemy posing an imminent threat that you are.

        1. “Imminent threat”

          Boring posts by strangers on the internet shouldn’t make you feel threatened. Food for thought.

            1. I doubt she’d listen to me. I’m Ted Cruz.

      3. “If I can direct you to the calendar at the corner of your screen; the election is over. Donald Trump is officially irrelevant.”

        That’s more or less my point–with the added observation that because Trump lost, whether we want to leave Afghanistan doesn’t matter anymore. Our desire to leave only mattered insofar as it could have reelected Trump.

        Our opposition to staying in Afghanistan became completely irrelevant the moment Trump lost and Biden won. Because Biden won, there isn’t much point in arguing about whether we should stay in Afghanistan–because Biden had no intention of leaving regardless of what we want.

        Did you really read my whole post and not understand what I was saying?

        1. Yes, I think I don’t understand. I agree with you that we can never expect Biden to withdraw from Afghanistan but I do not understand why the topic is still not worth a discussion.

          You began your post with “the whole pitch of the article is off,” which I interpreted as you suggesting that instead of criticizing recent statements of the Biden administration and hoping for a redirection of their policy that the article should instead have focused on how Trump would have been approaching this topic from a much better angle, based on the remainder of your post. Maybe I don’t know what you mean by “the whole pitch,” but to me it seems that Tucille’s article is more productive, and that it is more relevant to reflect on how the Biden administration that we actually have should be doing a better than rather than hoping that the Trump administration that we do not have was still in power.

          And while I am rereading your first post, I really don’t see support for your conclusion that “the American people are to blame” for this. You say that they chose their concerns over the economy and the pandemic over withdrawal from Afghanistan. I’m not really sure that this makes much sense, as I don’t recall Trump campaigning on a promise to withdraw from Afghanistan. He seemed pretty uncommitted to any particular action in the Middle East overall.

          1. “I interpreted as you suggesting that instead of criticizing recent statements of the Biden administration and hoping for a redirection of their policy that the article should instead have focused on how Trump would have been approaching this topic from a much better angle, based on the remainder of your post.”

            My focus is on the failure of the American people to vote against an eternal war in Afghanistan and the failure of me and my fellow libertarians to persuade them to do so.

            The failure is of the American people generally and libertarians specifically. We–as in American libertarians–fucked up.

            The solution will also be the American people, but that solution can’t come for another two or four years, and by then, the decision on whether to leave Afghanistan will no longer be ours to make. Biden has no intention of negotiating with terrorists, and there probably won’t be anyone four years from now inclined to do so either.

            For all we know, the next Republican will be another neocon warmonger. We had our chance. We blew it. Now the chance to leave Afghanistan is probably gone forever. We may not leave Afghanistan until sometime after we leave Germany, Japan, and South Korea.

            Yes, trying to urge Biden to do anything is probably delusional and futile. Trump certainly isn’t to blame. It’s our fault. We failed to reelect Trump, and there’s really not much point in talking about strategy in Afghanistan other than to make it clear to people that they fucked up.

            Anyone who voted for perpetual war in Afghanistan because Trump’s tweets were obnoxious is an idiot, and they need to know that. They need to have their faces rubbed in their own stupid shit until they understand how profoundly stupid they were–so that they never make the same mistake again.

            . . . not that we’re likely to have the opportunity to leave Afghanistan again in our lifetime–because of the stupidity of the American people.

            1. I can almost understand you saying this in 2016. But after four years of Trump sustaining and sometimes escalating American involvement overseas, it is really difficult to believe that anybody who considers demilitarization a top priority could vote for anyone other than Jorgensen. No other candidate in 2020 had any degree of overlap that could compete with her from a libertarian perspective. The Libertarian Party exists for a good reason.

              1. “after four years of Trump sustaining and sometimes escalating American involvement overseas”

                You seem to be completely unaware that Trump signed a peace deal with the Taliban that got us completely out of Afghanistan by the end of April 2021, or that he withheld billions in aid to the U.S. backed government in Kabul until they released the Taliban POWs they were holding and named a team to negotiate a peace deal with the Kabul government. Trump’s commitment to get us out of Afghanistan could hardly have been more clear–even if it was largely ignored by the press.

                You seem to be unaware that Trump was excoriated by neocons n both parties for withdrawing our troops from harm’s way in Syria rather than use the Turkish invasion as a pretense for a new full scale invasion of Syria a la Iraq.

                You seem to be unaware that Trump refused to retaliate against Iran when the Iranians seized the oil tankers of our allies traveling through the Persian Gulf, refused to retaliate against Iran when their proxies targeted Saudi oil production facilities, and only retaliated against an Iranian general after he ordered an attack against Americans.

                You seem to be unaware that Trump approved massive conventional weapons sales to the UAE and Saudi Arabia so that they can defend themselves against Iranian aggression–without our involvement, or that the reason Bahrain, the UAE, and others have normalized relations with Israel is so that they can form a multilateral defense against Iran without the United States.

                You seem to be unaware that McCain and other neocons were furious at Trump for coordinating with Putin to destroy ISIS in Syria by having Iran and our allies stop fighting each other and concentrate on ISIS. The reason the neocons were furious about this was because the destruction of ISIS obviated the justification for a US invasion of Syria.

                It’s true that Trump escalated in Afghanistan for a short time, but that was while he was in negotiations with the Taliban–and all those troops and then some have been withdrawn since those negotiations concluded.

                We haven’t had a less bellicose president since I don’t know when–Carter perhaps? And reelecting him sure as hell would have meant we were out of Afghanistan–maybe out of Iraq, too. Failing to reelect Trump was a terrible mistake from a foreign policy perspective–and it’s even worse of one for replacing him with a neocon return to the disastrous warmongering policies of Bush Jr. and Obama.

                I’d need to look past a whole world of facts to pretend that Trump sustained or escalated our environment overseas. He even fought to pull troops back from Germany and South Korea because they weren’t paying their fair share for their own defense.

        2. A peace agreement. Peace with the Taliban. An achievement.

          Yeah that is what you have been saying all along. Peace.

          1. And the Taliban hasn’t targeted a single American in the ten months since Trump signed the peace deal.

  17. Nope. The Forever War will continue. Its quite profitable for certain parties.

  18. Yup. Right back to “normalcy.” Continuing to lose a war we’ve been losing for 20 years, but NO MEAN TWEETS.

  19. Of course the Taliban didn’t keep their agreement. This is entirely normal in Afghanistan and has been for thousands of years.

    The only troops left should be the ones in charge of packing things up and getting out. Send in the chinooks and C-130s. If you can’t move it blow it up.

    1. Better yet, if you can’t move it boobytrap it so the Taliban lose a few.

  20. Surely the hawks see this. I’m afraid that an influential number of them are just sadists. That is, they desire to inflict as much misery as possible; they like war per se, because it hurts people who are not themselves. I can understand some having other motivations, but I’m increasingly driven to view much of that side as simply malevolent.

  21. Nope won’t be out because Biden is a thrall to the military intelligence complex.

    Would have been under Trump but you all wanted him to leave.

    So still in the middle east and central asia, and that won’t change at all.

  22. Really. Apparently here at Reason, y’all need that reality Czar.
    Because your heads are so far up yer.own.arse that you missed the part about why the war mongers you supported, just so you could get rid of bad orange man, was not a great fucking idea if you care about foreign wars for no reason.

    You supported it, so STFU!

    1. Wasn’t it nice when the Afghanistan war paused for four years before resuming just last month?

  23. I figure they’re there for what they think is a good reason if both Republican and Democratic administrations can’t figure out a way out. Of course, opinion polling shows more support for staying than going. I’m not sure it even came up during the presidential campaign.

    I don’t really care what we do as long as the outcome is not militant religious fundamentalists in charge of two countries. Zero would be preferable.

    1. I only say that because both countries in question have convenient access to nuclear weapons.

      If not for that, fundie away. I can probably dodge a car bomb.

      1. against the community guiadline andt..READ MORE

    2. I figure they’re there for what they think is a good reason if both Republican and Democratic administrations can’t figure out a way out.

      lol – the ole “bipartisanship can never be wrong” defense. It’s nearly as stupid as you are.

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  26. As others have said Biden is a tool of the military industrial complex.
    Our State departments’ support failed policies is the reason Trump went around them in Ukraine.
    And look what that got him. An attempted impeachment.
    Basically you could look at everything John Kerry is in favor of and do the exact opposite and you would be on the correct side.

  27. The Taliban have no incentive whatsoever to keep any agreement. They can afford to buy time and bleed the West.
    This really is Vietnam redux but on a smaller scale.

  28. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

    You’re serious? Biden withdraw troops? From anywhere?

    Enjoy your “Return To Normal,” Reason, because this is it.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

  29. Trump had to battle the establishment and his own appointee Mattes to reduce troops there. With Biden the establishment won, foreign wars will continue and if they can’t be escalated new ones will be started. Lot’s of government contracts to dole out.

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