Coronavirus

Many Epidemiologists Want Social Distancing and Masks Forever—Even After the Vaccine

Everyone has a right to dissent from the epidemiologists' contentment with the way things are now.

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The New York Times asked 700 epidemiologists to describe their COVID-19 habits, how their thinking has changed since the pandemic began, and when they think it will be safe for normal life to resume. Dismayingly, several answered that last question with a resounding never.

"I expect that wearing a mask will become part of my daily life, moving forward, even after a vaccine is deployed," Amy Hobbs, a research associate at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, told The Times.

Marilyn Tseng, an assistant professor at California Polytechnic State University, said life would never revert to the way it was, though the preventative measures currently practiced—masks and social distancing—will feel "normal" in time. Similarly, Vasily Vlassov, a professor at HSE University in Moscow, said life was perfectly normal now because this is the new normal.

Others disagreed. Michael Webster-Clark of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill said he expected "further relaxation of most precautions by mid-to-late summer 2021" following widespread availability of the vaccine. Some epidemiologists said their own risk aversion would decrease after they were vaccinated, but many said they would remain just as cautious until "80 percent or more" of the entire population had received the vaccine.

On the whole, the epidemiologists were less wary of touching surfaces than they were at the start of the pandemic, and some thought young children could go back to school. But just 26 percent said they either had or would have allowed their children to return to the classroom, or even attend an outdoor play date with friends. Only 29 percent were willing to get a haircut, even though the most infamous case involving two hairstylists who had COVID-19 resulted in not a single infection among their 139 clients. A mere 11 percent were willing to ride the subway.

Epidemiologists are free to take whatever precautions they deem necessary in their own lives, of course—as are the rest of us. But for too long, their pessimistic dictates have provided cover for politicians and government employees to make people's lives miserable. To take just the most obvious example, schools are still closed in many major cities, even as new scientific information has generally found that resuming in-person education would be perfectly fine. Teachers unions have echoed the choruses of the most alarmed public health experts, scrawling not until it's safe on their school reopening protest signs.

One of the blessings of liberty is that everybody shouldn't have to follow the same script. If a person has reasons to be extra cautious, or even just prefers the feeling of knowing that he is doing absolutely everything to reduce his own risk of catching the disease to as close to zero as possible, then he is free to live in accordance with that goal. Other people may decide their own circumstances don't require the same level of zealotry, or that their extremely low chance of having a negative health outcome justifies a greater degree of flexibility. Others may say they are fine with certain precautions—masks, avoiding large events—but need to resume small in-person social gatherings for the sake of their mental and emotional well-being. Still others may take larger risks but test themselves frequently and quarantine aggressively before traveling or visiting the elderly. The circumstances on the ground matter tremendously; a person's willingness to relax his social distancing habits should track with the rate of infection in the community, which will necessarily be different in different areas of the country.

But these choices need to devolve to individuals to the greatest extent possible, especially in the coming months, as the population becomes vaccinated and we move past the crisis point of the pandemic. The order of the day should be respecting people's preferences. If a convenience store doesn't want customers to enter unless they've been vaccinated, the store owner's wishes should be respected just as if the matter were shoelessness or shirtlessness. If a restaurant decides it really needs full capacity dining in order to stay in business, the government shouldn't deploy the police to stop them.

We all have to work it out for ourselves, and everyone who wishes to recapture the old normal is within their rights to dissent from the epidemiologists' contentment with the way things are now.

NEXT: Gavin Newsom's New Stay-at-Home Order a 'Deathblow' to California's Small Businesses

Coronavirus Epidemiology

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282 responses to “Many Epidemiologists Want Social Distancing and Masks Forever—Even After the Vaccine

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    2. No mask or social distancing state mandates here in Georgia.

      Businesses and schools are open.

      Georgians are doing great!

    3. I for sure hope this will not be the new normal. Wearing masks is disgusting and completely not social, when this is all over I hope they reach the bin really fast. The same for keeping distance, I don`t hope this will be necesery among your friend and family

      1. There is no “pandemic” and it’s various lunatic manifestations, rather a vile marxist/Dem/media plot to destroy us. Do you HONESTLY think the CA medical assocation personnel would be maskless in their fancy dinner with CA Gov. Nuisance if they didn’t know the whole thing was a fraud and scam in order to enslave and destroy while they party and laugh at us, like vile Nancy Antoinette who also went maskless to get her hair done and giggled about her $12/pint ice cream while her constituents starved. And the fools re-elected the witch like Mad Maxine’s did.

  2. How about no. What a ridiculous idea.

    1. Say it with me, “state mandated condom usage”!
      For Uncle Sam’s pleasure

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      2. Tony should be barred from sodomy, since there is no AIDS (GRID) vaccine.

    2. NOW IS THE TIME TO DO AS YOU ARE TOLD!

    3. Fauci’s already gone off the reservation saying that we’ll probably need to continue wearing masks after Biden’s “100 days,” just a few days after begging people not to go to Thanksgiving dinner because the light was supposedly at the end of the tunnel.

      Someone really needs to put a muzzle on this maniac, he’s gotten far too full of himself from the news media constantly kissing his ass.

      1. One observation I have made is that epidemiology is a pretty weak degree. Very little math compared to other related disciplines. They are kinda like those business IT degrees or business stat degrees.

        That many of them are swayed by things other than science is not surprising.

      2. Trump should have fired Fauci long ago.

        Fauci, like more than 90% of others who work at CDC, NIH, NIH financed universities, and state/local health agencies are over paid left wing socialists.

        1. Even worse, he has risen to his high position by excelling at being a bureaucrat. He knows how to sense the wind direction and change course accordingly, how to claim credit and avoid blame, and how to kiss up to higher authority.
          There is little science and even less reliable data backing the pronouncements from the CDC and FDA, but to protect their authority and jobs those in charge must be seen to ‘do something.’ Right now with TV news setting the tone, that means visible signs like wearing masks and shutting down all activities not essential to a TV journalist.

      3. It’s almost time for a whole lot of people to be removed by force.

  3. Everyone has a right to dissent from the epidemiologists’ contentment with the way things are now.

    I’d say an obligation. And not in a top-down, forced, “that which isn’t forbidden is mandatory” kind of obligation, more of a “fundamental moral truth which no thinking man can forego” kind of obligation. If, in 20 yrs., we’re all still wearing masks and social distancing because of COVID-19, we’ve failed as noble, free-minded creatures.

    1. Yup. As I have said many times, the most shocking thing to me in all of this is how readily so many people have gone along with the insanity.

      1. This is a glowing success for the new matriarchal world view. “We Care” replaces “We Think”

        1. And to TDS-infected shits, “We Did Something” replaces “Keep calm”.

    2. 20 years?

      If we’re still wearing them by summer we’ve failed.

      1. I believed it was a failure if it lasted to Thanksgiving. And it did.

        We have failed and people are scared, frightened sheep.

        1. It was already a failure by Easter.

          1. Indeed. This was only supposed to last 15 days. I would have understood if it lasted a month. But it’s insane that it’s likely to go beyond a year.

          2. Weren’t we still being told to not wear masks at Easter?

        2. It’s time for people to remember that even sheep have teeth. Time to bite the hand that feeds.

      2. Define “we”. I meant all humanity. Today’s one-yr.-olds don’t have much say whether they wear masks or not for the next ~18 yrs.

        Personally, I thought the cancellation of Easter was a failure of a large part of humanity.

      3. Good.

        Now do ID’s to get on a plane.

    3. As serious as this virus is, as someone pointed out here the other day, it is also far from the worst health crisis in the country’s history, if the number of deaths from COVID can’t even match how many people die of heart disease *every year.*

      If this vaccine is supposed to be so awesome, then there’s no reason we shouldn’t go back to normal–not the dystopian New Normal our mega-corporate overlords have been pimping for months, but pre-pandemic normal–this coming year.

    4. Let’s stop pretending that we still are noble free-minded creatures. 20 years ago, we started worrying about box cutters on airplanes and made sure that inspections became mandatory. Now inspections are mandatory – expanded to shampoo, exploding underwear, etc – and there has never been a peep about ending that. or for that matter even discussing the possibility that that old normal might return.

      1. “Let’s stop pretending that we still are noble free-minded creatures…”

        That “we”; is that your and the turd in your mouth?

      2. As stupid as that shit was, it never interfered with how people went about their daily lives. It didn’t nuke small businesses with weeks-long lockdowns and months-long operating restrictions. It didn’t make people afraid to go visit their relatives for Thanksgiving.

        The only similarity here is that “experts” demanded that these measures be put in place.

        1. Small correction: As stupid as that shit IS, not was. We still shuffle pathetically through the roped line and take our shoes off and surrender our nail clippers or our favorite wine key. Computer in a separate bin, toothpaste in a little plastic baggy.

          It’s the fact that we still do those things that scares the fuck out of me. Why would we stop wearing masks and having our foreheads scanned when we enter a building?

          Restrictions like these have a tendency to become permanent and continue long past their usefulness.

        2. Better we just remove the democrats, from this country.

  4. Why the hell does anyone want to live this way ?

    1. That is a really good question.

    2. I don’t think anyone does, outside of a few hyper-aware and risk adverse epidemiologists.

      1. Right there are no soccer moms or Karens who also want it.

        *rolls eyes*

        1. S/he’ll be right there with them in June. SCIENCE DEMANDS IT!

        2. No, you don’t understand. Karen wants you (and everyone else who isn’t Karen) to live that way. Karen has no intention of living that way herself.

          1. Karen needs a slap on the ass and told to quit her bitchin’ and get back to the kitchen!

      2. ‘I don’t think anyone does, outside of a few hyper-aware and risk adverse epidemiologists.’

        you’re forgetting that sizeable portion of our species commonly known as females, addicted to risk avoidance…

        1. Zing! The 19th Amendment was the beginning of the end for the great American experiment.

          1. The whole Wilson administration began the long decline. It’s too bad TR got that giant bug up his ass about Taft.

            1. They always present the hypothetical of going back in time to kill baby Hitler, but they should really go back and kill baby Wilson, because without Wilson Hitler becomes a lot less likely and a whole bunch of other things are avoided.

            2. It was because JP Morgan and other bankers wanted the Fed. They convinced TR to run and financed his campaign. They knew TR and Wilson would sign the bill to authorize the Fed while Taft was against it.

              1. And I’m so glad JP Morgan et al succeeded! Just think of how life would be different — and how many “business cycles” we would have had — without the Fed! Because we created a quasi-private government agency to smooth out business cycles, stock market crashes are things of the past!

                Oh, wait. That didn’t work out, did it?

                It’s amazing how we trust “experts” even though they never do what they claim they can do, whether it be in preventing business cycles, or “flattening the curve”, or any other crisis “management”.

      3. I would say they’re hyper-focused, not hyper-aware. Hyper-aware (or even just normally aware) people would be aware of the economy crumbling around them, people dying of cancer while healthcare workers get furloughed, and the fact that a supposedly mixed or bungled responses line up better with the optimal outcome of original projections.

      4. Would agree, but for the fact that there have been repeated comments about people driving alone with their windows up, masked. There’s a significant population of ignorant cowards, erm, extremely risk-averse people who seem quite happy to don a mask when it is not necessary.

    3. It’s within the new normal parameters.

    4. I will NEVER get used to wearing a mask. Other than supermarket shopping, I’m trying to avoid any place where I have to wear one.

      1. Well, that works too. As long as you’re not part of the problem, the solution can happen.

      2. And I don’t put the damn thing on until I’m in the doorway, and it comes off reciprocally.

    5. Social distancing-Loving it.

      I can’t count the number of times I’ve been in the check-out line, and when I reach for my wallet to pay, the guy behind me is so nut-to-butt that I elbow him pulling my wallet out. What is it with those type people? Get the f up off me.

      No problem with folks invading my personal space nowadays. I could go for a few more years of that.

      Mask? Love those too. Out in public with some anonymity and disrupting facial recognition software…and you know it pisses off cops, that’s always a plus.

      1. I too, am enjoying the extra space. And I don’t have to smell someone’s corpse breath. Oh, and I’m pretty happy I don’t have to shake anyone’s nut-scratching, nose picking hand at a business meeting. The rest of it sucks, but there *are* a few silver linings.

    6. Mask mandates make life easier for ugly people.

      1. Mask mandates make life easier for pretty people, not having to look at ugly people.

        You’re pretty.

      2. And ‘obedient’ ones like RO.

        1. And many here that cry and moan, after all is said and done, will mask up like obedient serfs.

          Instead, use the system to devour itself. Use the tools imposed to instead impose upon the system.

          The State is telling parents NOT to send their kids to state ran schools? That should have been a huge win; Libertarians and Conservatives should have ran with it and opened their own “pods”. When they do open schools back up-tell them “no thanks, we’ve got this covered”, now lower our taxes.

          The State is telling you to mask up? Regardless of their reason, mask up to thwart facial recognition software. Ball cap, sunglasses, long sleeve shirt, mask…cops are silently pissed.

          Did you get some sort of COVID relief funds? Go buy a firearm with the cash. Tie up their background checks even further.

          Much like the pastor who was told to shut down his church, while strip clubs remained open.

          He got up to the pulpit and took off his tie. There, strip club. He was “allowed” to remain “open”.

          Use the system against itself. Or, you can continue to bitch and moan and believe your vote still counts.

      3. I have to confess that one of the funny side effects of mask-wearing in practice is the tendency to believe that the real reason people wear masks in public is to hide the tentacles they have where you’d expect their mouths to be.

    7. I don’t, but I’m not really given a choice. I can’t even admit I don’t want to live this way in polite company.

  5. I want all the epidemiologists who play up epidemic hysteria to be held accountable.

    Let’s negotiate.

    1. Rule number one: you cannot negotiate with your executioner.

      1. Sure you can. Would you like it to take one swing or two? See plenty of room to negotiate.

        1. That’s just a bribe, and I doubt there’s much room for negotiation in it.
          Maybe if he suspects you can get a gofundme going

      2. It’s the epidemiologists who need to hope they can negotiate with *their* executioners.

      3. That’s a rule for someone?

        Because I’m quite willing to let them negotiate with me.

    2. I want all politicians who mandate lockdowns to give up their paychecks until they lift the lockdowns.

      1. Their paychecks are an insignificant part of their income. The real money, just like for star athletes, comes from their sponsors.

      2. Not just politicians. All bureaucrats.

  6. This is why you should never ask specialists to opine on things outside of their fields. Or at least not present them as experts. Epidemiologists are not mask experts or experts on how people want to live their lives or what tradeoffs are acceptable. When you are narrowly focused on one thing, that thing will tend to dominate your thinking. If you’ve spent the past 9 months worrying about nothing but covid, then it’s going to seem like the most important thing.
    Same reason we shouldn’t ask physicians about public health policy (or at least not totally rely on what they say). Their job is to treat their patients and do whatever they can to make them well. That’s very different from public health which needs to account for all of society, not just the one medical problem we’re faced with at the moment.

    The big thing they miss, which everyone needs to get over, is that life never has been and never will be safe. If you want to be safe, go join a fucking monastery.

    1. this is why it was needed to fight and fight hard from the jump. This is why you can’t concede anything with these totalitarian monsters conceding the problem opens pandora’s box for these retards. It’s why I’ve been an adamant science denier for years in regards to global warming and it’s why I was against this power grab from the jump. These noxious pieces of garbage will not stop till we are in chains and many many people want to be in chains.

      1. I honestly didn’t imagine it would go this far, but I knew is was shit from the beginning. I said in March when they first started to go nuts that I’m not fucking doing that, it’s no way to live.

    2. If you want to be safe, go join a fucking monastery.

      “If you can’t take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home, and crawl under your bed. It’s not safe out here! It’s wondrous…with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it’s not for the timid.”

      1. Of course, the context for that quote makes that a bit less special. Q was saying that after he was directly responsible for the deaths of 18 people. When he’s called out on it, he’s like, “Wahh, you guys are just crybabies.”

        People should be willing to accept that life has risks. That doesn’t excuse people who throw children onto a busy highway.

        1. Well, if we are giving it full context, and extending your analogy, he is saying HE is the busy highway and humanity are children, and it isn’t his fault they wandered out and got hit.

        2. Q’s point is that if we’re doing exploration, we’re going to lose lives.

          One of the worst things NASA did with the Space Program was pause launches for three years because of the loss of the Challenger — we were able to identify the program quickly, but rather than reserve launches for warm weather until figuring out how to deal with the O-rings, they stopped launching until they could be assured it was safe.

          Space exploration is inherently dangerous. While you shouldn’t take unnecessary risks, if you want to be a pioneer, you need to accept the risks.

          Those of us who want to accept the risks of COVID-19 are losing patience with those who want life with absolutely no risk whatsoever.

          1. Challenger was not lost due to O-rings.

            NASA was warned of the dangers of launching at such low temperatures and simply chose to ignore those warnings.

            Challenger was lost due to “normalization of deviance”

            The reason for the three year pause in launches, was to see how deep the normalization of deviance went.

            “ Space exploration is inherently dangerous. While you shouldn’t take unnecessary risks, if you want to be a pioneer, you need to accept the risks.”

            You’ve confounded two competing thoughts in the same sentence….you shouldn’t take unnecessary risk…but you need to accept those risk.

            That’s not how one manages or mitigates risk.

    3. It’s not really a coincidence that a large portion of left-liberal society has so readily adopted the autistic, hyper-reductionism of “experts” this year. They truly believe that anything outside of reducing COVID cases down to zero shouldn’t be taken into consideration–any financial problems should just be papered over with fiat money printing, and any larger physical and mental health problems caused by these policies that people are experiencing are just an unfortunate consequence that we have to “live with,” because “this too shall pass” and “you can’t experience life if you’re hacking up your lungs and your family can’t even visit you.”

      The utter mendacity, emotional manipulation, and double standards exercised by the Covidians the last ten months shows that these people are not to be trusted under any circumstances whatsoever. Anything they propose is based on presumptive question-begging and more likely to do more harm than good in the end.

      1. Covidians. I’m stealing that. But yeah these people should never be trusted. Unfortunately Reason libertarians are among them.

        1. Covidians makes them sound too legit. Branch Covidians is more on the nose.

          1. Covidiots?

        2. “Unfortunately Reason libertarians are among them.”

          There are no more libertarians at Reason, which is why Reason trashed Trump daily for the past four years, and why Reason campaigned for Joe Biden daily for the past eight months.

          Seems like after Koch gave millions of dollars to Reason, all of the former libertarians at Reason became Trump hating left wing socialists who advocate increased illegal immigration, shipping millions of more American jobs abroad, and helping the Chinese Communists dominate the world.

      2. The Atlantics database site plainly states that the goal worldwide should be to drive C19 cases to zero. Prima facia ridiculous.

    4. Exactly. Even assuming that government should be steered by anointed experts, you have to ask, experts in what? Fauci is an expert in “public health,” whatever the fuck that’s supposed to mean. Is the government also considering the opinions of experts in economics, mental health, or sociology? Apparently not.

      The expert guidance for government policy during the Cold War nuclear threat was highly interdisciplinary. Generals, physicians, logicians, mathematicians, ethicists, etc. Letting this asshole Fauci run a one-man show during corona is the equivalent of blindly following the advice of Curtis LeMay on how to handle the Soviet Union.

      1. Isn’t Fauci a public health epidemiologist or something? Even he has said that his recommendations are only part of the story and you also need to consider economics and social effects.

    5. As a physician, I have to say that Zeb is, unfortunately, absolutely right. Physicians, perhap even more so than other experts as a rule are incredibly myopic. And when it comes to public policy we have nasty tendency to combine it with obliviousness about factors outside our narrow focus, and top it off with arrogance tinged overconfidence This is how we get, for example, pronouncements about how long infants should be breast fed that are so unrealistic no one who has to do anything else for 6 months can follow them. True story, the same specialty group responsible for this was dismayed when young women in the field brought infants to poster sessions at their annual meeting, the one they didn’t see any reason to provide childcare options for infants at, only older kids.
      And it is how we get maximally intrusive lockdown recommendations. Where epidemiologists eager to see themselves as a modern John Snow (no, not that one, the real one) reminding me of nothing so much as a stereotypical surgical resident so hot to try out the new procedure they just learned that they just can’t resist pushing to do it regardless of whether it is the best option for the patient.
      It’s not just being glib about economic costs (which also kill people as recessions increase overall morbidity and mortality), but also about medical costs other than caused by covid. We definitely see that here. Drifting into the range of my own myopia to address just one of these, the mental health consequences of this pandemic will be with us a long time And despite some acknowledgment of these effects, the NYT article has the epidemiologists assuming that the mental health effects are related to worry about getting sick. Some is, but isolation and lonliness appear to be much larger factors that also increase the harm caused by worry about getting sick. Surveys by Mental Health America were reporting a 6-fold increase in the frequency of daily suicidal ideation by last June. #1 cited contributing factor was isolation, worry about getting sick was near the bottom of the list. It’s not that hard to make social animals (us curmudgeons aside) display both behaviors suggestive of depression and anxiety as well as disorganized behavior that likely manifests as psychosis in humans. Just isolate them long enough.
      Anyway, it should still be kept in mind that overwhelmingly what specialists are saying is true and accurate. They aren’t hoaxing the public or lying. It is just that they are often presenting a view in which only the things that matter to them are considered. For example, masks really do work . And lockdowns are also effective. (and no the Danish mask study does not say they don’t work. It says giving a small supply of masks to someone in a society with low rates of transmission and high background mask wearing that make it hard to statistically detect an effect; decreased risk of the people given the masks getting infected. But the total numbers infected in each group was just not large enough to be able to state with around adequate statistical certainty that it was more than a 50% reduction in risk to the wearer. No assessment the effect of masks on transmission from the mask wearer was made. And this is mechanistically the major effect of masks, which by itself concluding that masks don’t work.) But it requires going beyond what epidemiologists say about them to understand that masks have much of the benefit of more harmful lockdowns while avoiding much of the economic and medical harm while being less injurious to liberty.

      1. And no, before the ‘if you wear a mask you are complying!”‘ crowd gets their panties in usual bunch, I’m not talking about using governmental power top force people to wear masks. I’m talking about promoting voluntarily steps to limit covid spread that are less intrusive both to preserve lives as well as cut off worse mandatory measures. People deliberately doing things that transmit COVID helped to create this 3rd wave. Thereby harming individuals and businesses, and promoting draconian government interventions.

        If you are avoiding doing things that really do limit viral transmission just because they were recommended, I think that is your right. I also think are the type of idiot who would throw lit matches into open vats of gasoline just because someone told you that it was a bad idea and you shouldn’t do it. Then when the fire you started is used by the government to increase their control over gasoline sales, point your finger at the person who said it was a bad idea throwing the matches and shout that they are compling statists. In other words, you are the best friend real statists have: the asshat who makes them seem reasonable and wise.

        1. “If you are avoiding doing things that really do limit viral transmission just because they were recommended, I think that is your right. I also think are the type of idiot who would throw lit matches into open vats of gasoline just because someone told you that it was a bad idea and you shouldn’t do it…”

          Yes, avoiding masks for whatever reason (which reasons are none of your business) is exactly like throwing a lighted match in a container of gasoline.
          I seem to recall an earlier comment. Oh, yes:

          “…Physicians, perhap even more so than other experts as a rule are incredibly myopic. And when it comes to public policy we have nasty tendency to combine it with obliviousness about factors outside our narrow focus, and top it off with arrogance tinged overconfidence…”

          As you just demonstrated.

          1. I find it hard to believe you are stupid enough not to understand his analogy, but I’ve been wrong before.

      2. Unfortuately in the present situation, but I surely do want a physician treating me to have a myopic focus on what he can do for me.
        The idea that someone can be the doctor of the whole country goes along with other collectivist ideas, I suppose. But that’s a ridiculous way to look at it. You can’t save everyone and it is inappropriate to try because you will always harm other people in the process of trying.

  7. This is never going to go away and Reason basically just shrugged and accepted it from the jump.

    1. I blame Peter Suderman. He’s the government health care(as if that should even be a thing) guy at Reason, and thus was open to all of this totalitarian garbage from day one.

      1. Ron isn’t at all innocent. He was on the “mandatory vaccinations to preserve the tragedy of the commons” bandwagon back when people were worried that global warming was going to breed viruses as deadly as ebola, as debilitating as polio, and more virulent than influenza. Well before anyone had even heard the word ‘Zika’.

    2. How is arguing that people need to be able to take the steps that fit their own needs and risks without having the police arrest or harass them accepting it?

  8. “…and I always fuck wearing Saran Wrap from head to toe.”

    –epidemiologists

  9. But masks thwart facial recognition…

    1. Read it and weep.

      1. Current facial recognition thinks Michelle Obama is a man.

        I think we’re fine no weeping required.

      2. If the error rate in identifying partially concealed faces was 98% and they reduced the error rate to 96% that’s not exactly cause to be concerned.

  10. Epidemiologists are rapidly becoming the new bioethicists.

    1. “Lymphoma is rapidly becoming the new cancer.”

      No, authoritarian scientism is the underlying disease condition, climate science, bioethics, and epidemiology (among others) are its expression.

  11. Many Epidemiologists Want Social Distancing and Masks Forever—Even After the Vaccine

    I knew this would get suggested. And as part of that, I’m predicting we’ll start looking at ‘regular flu’ entirely differently than we ever have, which will result in much higher death rates for all future seasonal outbreaks.

  12. What a stupid, nothing article. What % of epidemiologists say we should wear masks for the rest of our lives? 0.4%?

    I know most dumb hicks can’t comprehend percentages, but that means next to nothing, and insignificant.

    1. The fact that the New York Times is publishing these opinions is what makes the proposal so insidious.

      The “percentage” doesn’t really mean shit when Big Media is using it to craft a narrative that will no doubt get signal boosted by their fellows on Twitter.

    2. Since <1% of those who get it die, I would say the math based science of epidemiology is filled with dumb hicks.

      1. Really the only tell is that the misplaced risk aversion isn’t directed against spilt beer.

        “You can’t say 2.2M people are going to die based on such a terrible model! It’s stupid and irresponsible!”
        “Hold my beer.”

      2. Or T-ball players, terrified of catching a cold, with a room full of ‘participation’ trophies.

    3. I went back to the NYY article, they never say how frequent such views are. Other epidemiologists cited say they think things will be pretty much back the way they were before after 70-80% of people are vaccinated or otherwise immune.

    1. Too bad it wasn’t a literal smack. Some of these tards need a roundhouse right to the temple.

  13. Many Epidemiologists Want Social Distancing and Masks Forever—Even After the Vaccine Can Go Fuck Themselves

    1. Thanks for fixing that for me.

  14. On the whole, the epidemiologists were less wary of touching surfaces than they were at the start of the pandemic

    At least hey got over one part of their silly superstitious science-denial.

  15. No thank you. We won’t be doing this.

  16. if you read through the source article, this is more than a little misleading. maybe reason felt the need to throw the “we hate doing anything” crowd a bone? they were not talking about forever and ever…. the general question was more like “what percentage of people vaccinated first?” some it was 50%, some 70, some 80….. having a vaccine does nothing until people get it. they quoted one person that said they might keep wearing masks after it is all said and done.

    some of them responded about ways their lives might change having nothing to do with health recommendations…. they found they like fewer errands and spending more time with the kids…. i did not see anything to indicate any of them were in favor of any restrictions after enough people are vaccinated to achieve herd immunity.

    1. Not at all misleading.

      “Being in close proximity to people I don’t know will always feel less safe than it used to,” said Ellicott Matthay, a postdoctoral scholar at the University of California, San Francisco.

      As for the future, some said that parts of life could begin to return to normal sometime in the summer, thanks to vaccines. Others said some things would stay different, assuming a highly effective therapeutic drug isn’t developed. The most mentioned change: the persistence of mask-wearing, particularly in crowded places or when they felt sick.

      “I expect that wearing a mask will become part of my daily life, moving forward, even after a vaccine is deployed,” said Amy Hobbs, a research associate at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

      “The new normal will be continued masking for the next 12 to 18 months and possibly the next few years. This is a paradigm shift.”

      “It is normal now; similar to 2019, never again.”

      [What will never return to normal?] “Every part of my daily life that involves interaction with anyone other than my spouse.”

      1. These people certainly sound sane and healthy!

        1. The profession seems populated with terrified weenies.
          It wouldn’t be surprising if you could cause wide-spread cardiac arrest by shouting *BOOO!* at one of their gatherings.

      2. This Foo slaver has been pitching *COMPLIANCE!!!!* for the last several days, even as s/he denies wanting the government to mandate it.
        Smells mighty like the ‘strong suggestions’ earlier this year which turned into mandates when not enough people complied.
        Further, when I suggested that if his/her fear is sufficiently strong, s/he should crawl in a hole, s/he accused me of ‘trying to kill gramma’ or some such appeals to emotion.

        1. fuck off…. the only thing i have ever pitched is personal responsibility. if you think advocating for freedom means advocating for people not to do the right thing…. you are a fucking jackass, working against the cause of freedom. trying to create a world where people do not follow common sense gives credence to the false argument that people need to be controlled…. the more people you convince to be stupid fucks, the more those who would oppress us can convince others that we need to be controlled. in the fight against the drug war do we advocate for getting more people to do heroine? if we had said everyone should be an addict, we never would have seen the progress we have seen on that…… the “everyone should act like an irresponsible asshole” front is the equivalent of fighting the war on drugs by saying “everyone should be addicted to something.”

          1. “fuck off…. the only thing i have ever pitched is personal responsibility”

            Fuck off and die, you pathetic piece of shit.
            You ‘pitched’ that your health required everyone, world-wide, required their actions to ‘keep you healthy’. Are you stupid enough to hope no one noticed that?
            I sincerely hope you contract a disease which causes a long and painful death; as a scumbag statist, you deserve nothing else

            1. you are a fucking lying jackass. GFY.

              1. I repeat:
                You ‘pitched’ that your health required everyone, world-wide, required their actions to ‘keep you healthy’. Are you stupid enough to hope no one noticed that?
                Fortunately, few here are stupid enough to have missed that, you lying piece of shit.

                1. i would like you to identify one place where i have ever said a fucking thing about my health….. (if you want to save time….. i never have, you lying sack of shit.)

                  1. ‘i would like you to identify one place where i have ever said a fucking thing about my health…..”

                    You’re probably right that you’ve avoided commenting on (specifically) your health, but if you think such a narrow avoidance impresses anyone, well, as a arrogant, self-righteous asshole, you’re welcome to hope no one saw that hint, hint, nudge, nudge.
                    Let’s try this again:
                    YOUR health is YOUR concern, not mine; please object to that statement again and hope no one notices I addressed YOUR health.
                    And fuck off and die.

                    1. ooh…. so you are admitting i have never said what you claimed i said….. but i wanted to? fuck off.

                    2. “ooh…. so you are admitting i have never said what you claimed i said….. but i wanted to? fuck off.”

                      No, you arrogant self-righteous asshole, I’m pointing out how you tried to avoid claiming so, and how those of us conversant in English recognize that you did exactly that and as an arrogant self-righteous asshole, hoped the rest of us wouldn’t notice that you are an arrogant self-righteous asshole who hoped to avoid anyone noticing your assholery.
                      But your knew that already, didn’t you, arrogant self-righteous asshole?

                    3. i didn’t avoid saying so…… i simply never said or intended to say the straw men you seem determined to fight….. GFY. you can’t argue with anything i have actually said, so all you can do is pretend i said something different and act like the complete jackass that you are.

          2. I’ll bet you’re one of those California liberals who thinks the cops should kick in my door for smoking in my apartment because it “endangers” your health.

            How is a mask or vaccine mandate any different from THAT kind of lunacy?

            1. listen, fuck face…. i have never and said there should be any fucking mandate. take your straw man and shove it up your ass.

              1. Yeah, of course you haven’t, arrogant, self-righteous asshole.
                Hint, hint, nudge, nudge…

    2. By the time we have herd immunity for covid, there will be covid2.0 to keep it going.

      1. so, it is hypothetical rejection of reality, then….

    3. “…maybe reason felt the need to throw the “we hate doing anything” crowd a bone?..”

      You mean the people who resent self-righteous twits trying to run their lives? That crowd?

      1. i mean the self righteous assholes who delude themselves into thinking that is who they are. you keep coming at me hard, but i have never advocated for forcing your stupid ass to do anything…..

        1. No shitstain, let’s define the issue clearly:
          Self-righteous shits like you have decided *YOU* know what right – thinking people should do world-wide. Your arrogance alone should inform anyone with a degree of thought that you are
          Full.
          Of.
          Shit.
          You are a fucking ignoramus. I really want to make that clear, do you understand, fucking ignoramus?
          This is not, and has never been a purely medical issue, regardless of self-righteous ignoramuses like you claiming it to be so; you are too fucking stupid to understand that your desire to tell everyone else what to do has other effects, like every fucking ignoramuses proposing the next “5-Year Plan”
          Fuck off and die; and it’s a shame your mommy didn’t have an abortion; the world would be a better place.

          1. fuck you…. all you got is straw men and putting words in my mouth i never said. you are so fucking stupid that someone telling others Russian roulette is a bad idea is all it takes to be considered “self righteous.” (ironically as you self righteously claim ultimate knowledge that people should not voluntarily take any actions.)

            1. Keep ducking and dodging; no one here missed your self-righteous pile of shit.

              1. fuck off and die.

                1. Note that I have not even suggested that arrogant, self-righteous asshole take any action of my choice at all. Not even suggested that arrogant, self-righteous asshole might, oh, take that face diaper off when in his/her abode. Nope; arrogant, self-righteous asshole is welcome to do whatever arrogant, self-righteous asshole wishes to do without so much as a suggestion from me.
                  But now note that arrogant, self-righteous asshole who wants to tell the world what to do gets pissy when someone tells him/her to stuff it up her/his ass. Sharp end first.
                  Strange is it not? Who might you imagine to be an AUTHORITARIAN arrogant, self-righteous asshole, despite claims otherwise.
                  Quack, looks and waddles, arrogant, self-righteous asshole. You’re a duck.
                  Fuck off and die a long painful death, arrogant, self-righteous asshole

                  1. “you are telling me i am stupid…. you must be an authoritarian. (even though you have never suggested any use of force to make me not act stupid.)”

                    fuck off, dumb-ass. learn to actually argue with what i have said, or shut the fuck up.

                    1. Yep, arrogant self-righteous asshole argues that arrogant self-righteous asshole’s efforts are, well just suggestions and anyone who notes that arrogant self-righteous asshole’s are , well, a bit more than suggestions must be horrible people!
                      Up your ass, sharp end first, arrogant self-righteous asshole.

  17. And Many Farriers Want Horse-Drawn Carriages Forever – Even After the Car.

    1. Is Koch into buggy whips?

      1. Immigrant children are great for scooping horse shit out of the streets when they aren’t polishing monocles.

  18. so Amy the Epidemiologist is un-dateable …

    1. except the one in Florida who was fired

    2. Based on her faculty headshot, I can see why she wants to wear a mask all the time.

  19. Just fuck these people, seriously. They’re getting on my every last nerve with their hysterics.

  20. Not only no, but hell no.

    I could see some permanent changes, like forcing the FDA to slow vaccine development down a lot less. Wider use of UV disinfectant lights and self-disinfecting surfaces.

    But the masks are the last thing I’d make permanent.

  21. “Epidemiologists Want Social Distancing and Masks Forever”

    So, herd immunity never.

    1. Herd immunity = less power for politicians. Why would politicians want herd immunity?

  22. What color is the sky in these people’s world?
    Masks will be gone by next summer. Wearing one after you get the vaccine would be just plain stupid. When China releases a new virus we will have learned that masks don’t do squat anyway.

    1. Masks aren’t about the virus. They’re BURKAS imposed by the state. The state is training it’s herd of cattle to be more compliant.

  23. their pessimistic dictates

    Nice band name, albeit perhaps too similar to Them Crooked Vultures.

  24. Thanks for the list.
    They will go up against the wall after the media mavens and the college level “educators”.

  25. Living in fear isn’t living, it’s just existing

    1. Yep. Not dead but not quite alive either.

  26. This survey proves that epidemiologists aren’t a good source of information. They’re a group of irrational germophobes.

    1. They probably weren’t comfortable being around people *before*.

  27. I always enjoy Robby’s articles and have purchased his book. But he doesn’t say anything about any of us who want to commit civil disobedience in this matter can do so. If all the public places I go, from stores to museums to restaurants, demand that I wear a mask, possibly even after I am vaccinated, what can I do but obey? If my friends demand I wear a mask around them because they are afraid they might catch the dreaded COVID, how can I refuse, even if I keep my distance, if they won’t see me if I don’t comply with their fear-based requests? How shall I talk to a cop who stops me if I am out after curfew if it comes to that (it hasn’t yet, thank god, in my state of AZ)? His principle, that we should all have the freedom to do what we want, within reason, as long as we are willing to accept the consequences, is great as a concept, but in the case of COVID restrictions, isn’t possible from a practical point of view. They kind of have got us over a barrel.

    1. Don’t patronize places that don’t want your business. I have found enough grocery stores and restaurants that don’t get all pissy about “cloth face coverings” to live my life my way. True, not so many as before, but my savings account has doubled this year.
      You need new friends; the ones you got aren’t your friends.
      Tell the cop your are medically exempt, and to stay 6 feet away. (Have a lawyer’s number handy for later)

    2. the problem is that things are not necessarily wrong just because the government oversteps it’s role to try and force them. if most businesses, your friends, your employer, and 90% of the people on the street think that we should all be wearing masks….. you might want to rethink the hill you are choosing to die on. civil disobedience in this case can only turn people off to the idea of liberty. flaunting a refusal to do something most people agree we should do does nothing to make people support you, and gives credence to the false notion that you need to be forced in the first place. is it really that important to not do something as simple as wear a mask? my position is that we should focus on those places that have not implemented any mandates and demonstrate that people can do the right thing without being forced. the only viable way to oppose the mandates is to prove that we did not need them in the first place. flaunting disobedience only convinces our oppressors that they had to do it.

      1. “…if most businesses, your friends, your employer, and 90% of the people on the street think that we should all be wearing masks….. you might want to rethink the hill you are choosing to die on…”

        I’m not surprised an arrogant, self-righteous twit like you assumes an appeal to authority is a valid technique.
        It isn’t; stuff it up your ass. My choice to avoid masks as much as absolutely possible is my choice. The reasons for that are
        NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, YOU ARROGANT SELF-RIGHTEOUS TWIT.

        1. and i am not surprised that you seem to be trolling me….. you know…. most people agree with wearing pants….. we should all start walking naked around preschools, because that will totally win people over to the cause of liberty…. i am sorry if you are too fucking stupid to understand what i am saying.

          1. I am not surprised you are still here pitching your authoritarian demands backed with strawmen, given that you have no argument at all other than a claim that shitbags like you get to tell the rest of us what to do.
            I understand your stupidity in comprehending my posts; fucking lefty shits often do not ‘get’ that others are not under the control of lefty shits.
            Fuck off and die. Slowly and painfully. Your family will rejoice, along with your dog, the world will be a better and more intelligent place.

            1. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! I’m the one resorting to straw men? almost everything you have ever said to me is based on things i have never said…… hell, that is probably being generous to begin with….. it is probably more accurate to say that you just string together insulting keywords and don’t really bother with any argument at all. (authoritarian slaver lefty shit…) I’m probably attributing more intelligence to you than you deserve by saying you use straw men.

              go take a long walk off a short pier.

              1. You literally argued to comply with mass hysteria because everyone else is doing it retard.

                1. no… i argued for not acting like a self righteous asshole and making a spectacle of yourself when you know nobody thinks what you are doing is smart. do you advocate that we should all walk around preschools naked? that would be technically protesting for a “more free world.” most people are not OK with you flapping your bits around children…. does the fact that others do not agree with it make it a cause worth fighting for?….. or does it make it a fight guaranteed to drive people away from from the cause you claim to support? the message of freedom can never succeed if you ignore the need for personal responsibility. we advocate that with no drug war, more people would not be addicted, but those who are would be more able to seek treatment. we advocate that if you eliminated the welfare state, private charity would provide for people’s needs. why is it so hard to say that if we eliminated the government mandates….. people would do the right fucking thing on their own…. why does fighting oppression mean encouraging stupidity on this issue?

  28. Apparently they no longer teach critical thinking to epidemiologists. Events more rare than lightning strikes (dying to COVID at a young age without comorbidities) scare the shit out of them.

    The only thing anyone should walk away from this ‘pandemic’ with is a better understanding of the consequence of a lack of exercise.

    1. “Events more rare than lightning strikes”

      It justifies their existence and gets them bigger budgets. This is the viral equivalent of the DEA loving drug dealers; the more drugs there are, the bigger their budget. The NAACP loves racism, the more racists they find, the more donations they get.

      When you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail…

  29. At this point, we know for certain that two vaccines and maybe a couple more are effective at three months and are free of serious complications at three months.
    We do NOT know several important factors:
    – How long the effectiveness will last. If only a total of six or so months, that is not good. If over a year, that would be good, and
    – What serious adverse reactions may come later than three months. Given that many vaccine adverse effects do not appear for several months to a year or so, we have generally taken at least one to two years to approve vaccines.

    Given these and other unknowns, I plan to continue wearing a mask when out of my house, avoiding close contact with non family when in public, avoiding crowded restaurants and bars (maybe for ever if for no other reason than to avoid the noise levels), and other risk environments.

    Personally, I do not find these actions to be especially onerous and it is quite nice to see that they have been very effective in lowering the rate of seasonal influenza.

    1. “…Given these and other unknowns, I plan to continue wearing a mask when out of my house, avoiding close contact with non family when in public, avoiding crowded restaurants and bars (maybe for ever if for no other reason than to avoid the noise levels), and other risk environments…”

      Goody for you. I don’t.

    2. Let’s say the vaccines only work for 3 months. So you need to stop by CVS and get shots 8 times a year. Big deal. That’s a tiny price to pay compared to what we’ve gone through in 2020.

    3. The only known side effect that ‘they’ are keeping secret is that after 10 months you develop a strong urge to vote for democrats.
      This version of the vaccine will be mandatory.

    4. Um, if a vaccine is only “effective” for three-six months, it’s effectively worthless and we’re better off letting this burn through the whole population.

      If we can’t live with a coronavirus even if there’s a vaccine for it, then the country might as well pack it in and dissolve. I’d rather seen the government overthrown in a violent revolt and its officials thrown in the woodchipper than spend the rest of my life with a piece of cloth over my face.

    5. the first two are effective for 7 month…. but we can’t test for longer than they existed. based on what we know about other similar viruses, i think the probable effective time should be 2-6yrs. (I’m no expert, but i have seen that as a typical immunity period.) but i do completely understand anyone hesitant to get in on the first batch. in another 6 months we will have more data and it may change your mind. it might be that long until you could get it if you wanted it anyway. those without underlying conditions to make them more motivated to want it are going to be last on the list.

      1. The coronavirus mutates yearly dipshit.

        1. fuck off. I’m trying to provide what is actually known, and you are just trying to be an asshole.

  30. Hey, if they want to wear a mask, distance and isolate all the way to the grave…they have my blessing. I won’t ever be following their lame example and I do not take orders from lame doctors who don’t know nothing from nothing. Once again…the pandemic is 110% FAKE! As are many doctors.

    1. True; if you read the stuff on the wall, they are only licensed to “practice” medicine, not actually “do” medicine.

  31. ‘You can’t tell me what to do.’
    — the average seven-year-old and Robby Soave.

    1. “Hit me again; I lone being a slave!”
      The average slimy proggy and asshole bigot here.

    2. You like being told what to do like a child?

      1. Ikr? Weird flex but ok.

  32. Ordered pizza tonight heard the doorbell and opened it tip in hand. The delivery woman ( I think. hard to tell under the coat and mask) had put the pizza on the porch and was cowering 10 feet away on the lawn. She told me I had to sign the ticket which I found on top of the pizza box. I did so and began to move forward to hand it to her but she backed up. I finally figured out the protocol. Picked up the pizza, left the ticket and tip in it’s place, went inside and closed the door. The entire experience was frankly bizarre.

    1. Order from a different place in the future.
      Go pick up the pizza.
      Do not give money to psychos.

      1. I had the same experience with multiple pizza places. Our local health board mandates some of these rules…really drunk on the power to micromanage all of our lives these days.

    2. Maybe she didn’t want to catch the deadly disease.

      1. Just spitballing here.

        1. just bullshitting here I see
          It really is a shame you weren’t aborted; your mommy could have made the world a better place and helped those who know you to feel better.
          Fuck off and die.

      2. The disease with the extremely low fatality rate? The disease, in fear of which she was wearing a mask and would not have been close enough for long enough to be infected had she been handed the receipt? That disease? Maybe she is stupid, and a coward, but it was her choice. It’s when fucktards make their fear or anger into policy that effects everybody that it becomes a problem.

        1. Approaching 300,000 dead you revolting talking points dumpster.

          1. Compared to the 2.2 million deas as predicted by Neil Ferguson, that is a bargain!

          2. And about 2.7 million other deaths. Keep cowering like a child.

            1. Yes please let me ignore all the death so I have room in my schedule to worry about your freedom.

              1. Didn’t bother you when 655,000 were dying every year from heart disease.

          3. So, not nearly as bad as heart disease.

    3. Then she picked up the pen, put it in her pocket, and felt good about being so safe.

  33. When 28% of them haven’t brought in the mail without precautions in the last 30 days, nobody should take life advice from them.

  34. It’s like history never happened.

    Masks were all the rage in 1918 too; there are lots of photos. And the 1918 influenza was far, far worse than now.

    But I’m pretty sure we haven’t been wearing masks since 1918.

    When will these fucking idiots learn. Time passes. Life goes on.

  35. the first one, Miss Ann, told me all I need to know abouther opinionnwhen she admitted she is part of Johns Hopkins BLOOMBURG School of Medicine.

    The guy from Cal Poly is a clos e second.

    These people are not epidemiologists. They are either Little Miss Much Afraid, or they are socialist/communists part of the movement to bring the world’s economy and systems to a halt so they can take over and enforce their sick ideas of what life is all about.

    Masks are unhealthy, unnatural, don’t work, socially/emotioinally disturbing, and should never have been universally, or even widely, mandated. People like these are part of theproblem. They are NOT doing a thing to staunch whever is real of the “disease”, and their edicts and mandates are far mor harmful to society and culture than the alledged disease itself is harmful. If these folk wanna keep their mug nappies tightly plastred to their faces, let them. But the rest of us know better and most won’t

    1. Watch out, the newest twit Foo-something will accuse you of killing gramma and kicking the wheels out from under a wheel-chair.

  36. Where did Robby Soave find his thinking for this article? He sounds like a different person and – finally – he makes a strong pitch for supporting individual liberty and the choices that entails, even in the face of the collective guilt-peddling being promoted by the “health authorities.”
    It would be great to see more such thinking from Reason writers in the coming year.

  37. It worked so well the first go-round that CA officials double-down on it:

    “San Francisco Bay Area issues new stay-at-home order ”
    […]
    “Restaurants will have to close to indoor and outdoor dining, and bars and wineries must close along with hair and nail salons and playgrounds. Retail stores and shopping centers can operate with just 20% customer capacity. Gatherings of any size with people outside a household are banned.
    […]
    The new stay-at-home order will cut sharply into the most profitable shopping season and threaten financial ruin for businesses already struggling after 10 months of on-again, off-again restrictions and slow sales because of the pandemic…”
    https://www.stltoday.com/news/national/san-francisco-bay-area-issues-new-stay-at-home-order/article_cd41f75b-d1b1-5275-aa45-fb1e7c0b37d2.html

    In SF, I’m sure that those making these decisions have never worked in a job where they could get fired for stupid choices, and pretty certain that’s true all the way to that scumbag Newsom.
    And it’s an odds-on bet that the prevailing opinion runs along the line of “if you can’t run a business we shut down off and on for a year or so, you don’t deserve to run a business!”
    Ignorance is indeed bliss, and we have some blissful lefty shitbags in the CA government.
    BTW, ‘Trump should have done more!’, because we need Iowa businesses going bankrupt at the same rate as NY’s, right TDS-infected shits?

  38. Masks and social distancing should only be mandatory for those who voted for Trump

    1. “Masks and social distancing should only be mandatory for those who voted for Trump.”

      Any treatment for TDS-infected shits should be withheld, in the hopes that the disease is fatal, TDS-infected shit.
      It’s a shame your mom didn’t opt to make the world a better place and abort you.

      1. Awwwww, I’m sorry snowflake. Didn’t mean to hurt your little feelings. I’ll tell your mommy to kiss your booboo.

        1. “Awwwww, I’m sorry snowflake….”

          Proving you’re a TDS-infected piece of shit in no way hurts my feelings, TDS-infected piece of shit.

          1. Lol @ TDS. I guess that’s the best you got when people tell the truth about Trump. If you were a libertarian, you just would have voted for Jorgensen, but instead you decided to join the cult and vote for Trump. That’s fine by me, but don’t be such a snowflake when Trump loses.

            Unfortunately libertarians lose every election. It’s in part due to libertarians voting for either the democrat or republican candidate. So if you love trump so much, why not just join the republican party?

            1. “Lol @ TDS.”

              How, uh, juvenile….
              Stuff your TDS up your ass; your head wants some company.

              1. I wish I was as mature as you, Then I could be a real sissy just like you. Get over it, Trump lost.

                1. So why are you still obsessed with Trump?

            2. Libertarians generally don’t support cultural marxism and push anti racism. A direct slogan from CRT and cultural marxism. Yet here you are.

      2. You must believe in a woman’s right to choose when it comes to abortion. At least you have one redeeming quality.

        1. I’ve yet to find one of yours; TDS does that.
          Fuck off and die.

          1. I have no redeeming qualities and I’m proud of it. I’m also proud of the fact that I didn’t vote for a loser like Trump. That’s a ship that’s sinking so fast, it makes the Titanic look like it had a pinhole.

            1. there is no shame in losing a vote.
              there is no virtue in being part of a plurality.

        2. Are you for mass killings of people in comas?

  39. As long as facial recognition gets confused by face masks it might be worth it.
    Aw shit. There has to be a better way.

  40. Not everything needs a libertarian hot take. I mean I get it, but nobody expects you to have an answer for as acutely public a crisis as a pandemic. There hasn’t even been a major pandemic since libertarianism was invented, has there?

    1. I remain sorry your mom didn’t have an abortion, but given that she didn’t (she was as stupid as you?) and you are here to pollute the world, did you have a point, shitstain?

        1. If you’re representative, your mom probably had to buy sperm.

      1. @sevo I guess you are pro abortion and a Trump voter. Seems a bit conflicting

        1. For you, but folks like you tend to be easily confused, as they don’t depart from their in-group’s biases. Thus, the stupid assumptions you’re making while doing your low quality trolling. There are intelligent and less than stellar trolls that have been posting for years. You don’t stack up.

          1. Says the guy that says Trump won the election.

            News flash:
            Trump lost the election and Biden won the election. Just trying to help you out bro.

        2. Haystack
          December.5.2020 at 2:45 pm
          “@sevo I guess you are pro abortion and a Trump voter. Seems a bit conflicting.”

          It’s obvious that:
          You.
          Are.
          Full.
          Of.
          Shit.
          TDS does that; fuck off and die.

        3. I mean why can’t the mother kill her 6 week new born.

          1. Everyone dies, who cares?

          2. I do not get why more states don’t pass COVID lockdown restrictions to eliminate abortion clinics entirely.

            I mean, good enough for churches…

  41. Personally, I believe that the best way to stave off covid is to put one of these epidemiologist’s head on a pike and display it in your front lawn.

    These viruses are smart enough to know the difference between a Trump rally and a mostly peaceful protest, right? So, they have to be aware that the epidemiologists are their main enemy, trying to wipe them from existence. If we can demonstrate to them that we are their enemy’s enemy, perhaps they will leave us alone. Or, conversely, perhaps they will fear us for showing that we are even more powerful than their greatest known threat.

    Either way, it is our only safe and rational choice. Even if it only saves one life and all that.

    1. So you think you need to murder scientists to send the message that you will not have your freedom impinged by basic hygiene measures.

      No wonder Republicans chose you people as their drooling fucktoys.

      1. Know what Tony? The measures these little rats peddle have killed people.

        1. I don’t think you give the slightest fuck.

          You’re crying about some deaths and wholesale dismissing other deaths depending on political team bullshit.

          Liberals can handle worrying about externalities. You’re a libertarian, you’re not supposed to care about how or why people die unless it’s at the hands of some thug. Your hierarchical fight-or-flight cognitive approach to politics does not equip you to approach social problems in a holistic or pragmatic way.

          Furthermore, you’re not being asked to do anything but wear a goddamn mask. If a mask makes you suicidal, then you need to seek treatment and stop trying to have opinions about things.

          1. “…I don’t think you give the slightest fuck…”

            Whatever you “think” is so much bullshit, shitstain; thinking is not one of your abilities.
            Fuck off and die a slow painful death.

          2. You don’t give the slightest fuck about those deaths, why should I give a fuck about your friends dying?

      2. ‘No wonder Republicans chose you people as their drooling fucktoys.’

        A clear example of a lefty shit posting lies in the hopes that intelligent people are as STOOOOPID as he is.

    2. “These viruses are smart enough to know the difference between a Trump rally and a mostly peaceful protest, right?”

      True true. The virus has no idea it’s at a Trump rally or any other event. But it does know it’s in the best environment to spread, so it spreads. If you don’t understand that, maybe you should learn how viruses spread.

      1. Whooosh!
        Try again.

        1. The point is they found a liberal being a hypocrite somewhere so that means they get to take a shit on old people and fuck children.

          Their moral system is beyond our simple minds.

          1. Did your mom tell you that was intelligible?
            She lies, shitstain.

          2. Children? Who have the lowest death rate from it out there?

            Yeah.

            Unlike you, I HAVE a child. And he knows this is bullshit too.

  42. It makes sense that many epidemiologists would see things this way. That is the world they inhabit on a day-to-day basis after all. This is similar to people who sell insurance generally having more of it than the general population.

    The question is do politicians enact their overcautiousness into law.

  43. The one and only reason I regret deleting my FB account is that I predicted half this shit. I have lost out on the mild, fleeting pleasure of the “I told you so.”

    Of course this is the new normal.

    1. Google is by and by paying $27485 to $29658 consistently for taking a shot at the web from home. I have joined this action 2 months back ngt and I have earned $28775 in my first month from this action. I can say my life is improved completely! Take a gander at it what I do……. Visit Here

    2. Weddings in masks?

      I mean this is just anti-human mental retardation at this point.

      These twits in the article are retards.

  44. Don’t get too wigged out. Pick any random 700 people and you’ll find some wearing tin-foil hats to protect themselves from space alien mind control rays. People do weird things to protect themselves from their fears. And out at three sigma, you’ll always find people with extreme views.

    1. Yes, but these are supposedly educated people advising those who have the guns to force us to do things.

  45. ‘It’s just a mask’.

    Been saying for months now, get these idiot virologists off my TV.

    They’re way past their sell by date.

  46. By the way, they’re a bunch of psychos.

    You better pray politicians aren’t this stupid.

    1. UM hello, these politicians ARE STUPID!!! the new president wants to mandate like they did back in the day with seat belts, by getting to local government to make little laws to get each of us! Nope, seat belts are not the same as masks and the problem is, you ask all of us to wear masks, gloves, and goggles, because those are the 3 entry points for germs, and we are all going to walk around not getting ANYTHING and as soon as we do, it will kill us and no vaccine will help. Our systems have to be exposed to germs so our immune systems can learn to fight them, vaccines are synthetically made and have none of the virus in them, that’s why if you already had chicken pox as a kid, you never have to get the vaccine.

  47. Can any of these pant shitting fucktards prove masks make a difference?

    Reading that survey they sound like a bunch of cowards.

    They want to live in fear be my guest. But it’s pretty incredible they would say so publicly. I’d be ashamed to peddle idiocy because they want to let a stupid virus with a high survival rate control their sad lives.

    Jesus Christ. What’s next? Helmets for everyone?

    1. That the numbers are worse than in April, it is more likely masks are counter-productive.

  48. 3 idiots who want to be significant, 693 or more that think they are wrong.

    Terrific! Slack work, even for REASON

  49. I would be curious to know how many of these epidemiologists are employed in the private sector where costs and benefits have to be weighed versus how many work for the government, either directly or through a contractor like a research institute or a medical school and therefore don’t have to give a flying fuck about costs.

  50. Come February, most of the vulnerable, and the medicos to treat the sick will be immunized. (+95% effective). Exactly what are we taking precautions from? At worst, a bad cold will knock you down for 3 to 5 days, you may infect some others that are perfectly capable of fighting off a viral infection. Life goes on. If you are vulnerable and not immunized, you should be taken the necessary steps to keep yourself healthy.

    1. Right! But it should be our choice, not government to tell us what to do. We have been dealing with the flu for over 2,000 years, different variations of it and we are still here!

  51. When I was in college I worked at an appliance store selling on commission. We loved heat waves because we’d sell dozens of air conditioners every day. We often said hot weather was our Christmas.

    If you’re an epidemiologist seeking a public presence, this pandemic is your Christmas. You don’t get any headlines by saying, “It’ll be over at some point and we’ll go back to normal,” which is obviously going to be the case because that’s what’s happened after every other pandemic, some worse than this one. But if you say that to a reporter he closes his notebook and calls someone else, so you make scary predictions to get your name out there.

    1. “…If you’re an epidemiologist seeking a public presence, this pandemic is your Christmas. You don’t get any headlines by saying, “It’ll be over at some point and we’ll go back to normal,” which is obviously going to be the case because that’s what’s happened after every other pandemic, some worse than this one. But if you say that to a reporter he closes his notebook and calls someone else, so you make scary predictions to get your name out there…”

      Similarly, ‘news’ organizations, politicos, and the lefty shits who cream their jeans for MOAR GUVERMENT!

  52. “We need an epidemiology consult ASAP. Who’s on call?”

  53. Holidays will be especially dangerous for us. Christmas and New Year are ahead of us.
    In England is the second national lockdown, which could be extended to the end of this year due to the serious pandemic situation.
    The main thing is health and safety. I choose gifts in online stores

  54. During this year, the lives of many of us have changed. But you must agree that such simple rules as wearing a mask and lockdown have kept many of us healthy. Yes, Christmas is ahead. But lockdown and masks are not a reason to be upset. You can find gifts online and celebrate Christmas with your family.
    I bought gifts for my mom and sister on Juliet’s Lover https://julietslover.co.uk/
    It is very easy to place an order on the Juliet’s Lover website. And for just £ 40, I bought a monthly membership plan and can get over £ 350 for my mom and sister. the selection of gifts at Juliet’s Lover is small. And this is what these women like.

    1. “But you must agree that such simple rules as wearing a mask and lockdown have kept many of us healthy”

      No, we do not have to agree.
      Studies show that the masks most people wear are not effective, and that they do not wear/use them properly.

      1. I know I replied to a bot, but that message is perniciously used by the chicken littles.

      2. 😀 😀 😀 😀

  55. Nowhere close to the 2.2 million predicted.

  56. The chances of that happening in the United States is zero.

  57. Happy New Year 2021 in Advance that offers a collection of useful information for the young and old alike. There are pages dedicated to the various celebrations, which come together on this special occasion. A host of events are scheduled all over the globe in order to make this day a time to remember.

  58. Our bodies contain a powerful immune system that will protect us, but with out exercising it we become susceptible disease. Sure mask and vaccines will protect us, but we become vulnerable to disease as our immune system is not be used.

  59. This is complete, utter madness.

  60. Here’s my issue, All of Asia has been wearing masks for a while now and the virus hit them first. Political gain to get trump out or masks don’t work. Not to mention, I have never taken a flu shot in my adult life and I have been on my own since I was 15 and I don’t get sick. I get the virus naturally, not synthetically from the government. This is just another way for people to control others. My question, if government implements a mask mandate, what happens to those of us who don’t want to wear one, do you just give us a ticket, we don’t pay it and get thrown in jail/prison for not wearing a mask. That’s what the new president wants, to ask local governments to impose new laws, this is not the same as the seat belt laws. The flu has been around for thousands of years and it will be here long after we’re all gone! Making people wear masks, gloves, and the next step, goggles, you are asking for a mass killing by germs because you are asking us to become sterile and never let a germ in, as soon as a germ does get in, our bodies won’t know how to fight it off. You’re not getting it, we have to be exposed to germs in order to fight them. IF you have ever had chicken pox, you don’t have to have the chicken pox vaccine, yes it is the same thing because the vaccine was a man-made way of preventing it just live covid-19. This is all bullshit and those who can’t see it because they are scared, you are the ones who are dooming us, you need to think for yourself instead of having government hold your hand and take your choices away. Even those who believe in god believe we were all given a choice, how come my choice is being made for me, forced even?! There will be more rioting and chaos if you force us all to do this. Even the Amish were given a choice, they don’t have to be vaccinated or even follow our rules, they are given an area where they make their own rules, native tribes too, they have their own government. This is outrageous to choose for me whether I want to get germs or not.

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