Taxes

Biden and Trump Offer Competing Tax Proposals, but Both Ignore Economic Reality

Trump plans to steal less of other people’s cash then Biden does, though neither has any serious suggestions for paying for their spending schemes.

|

In a world in which economic reality mattered to politicians, grandiose spending plans coupled with soaring government debt would pretty much preordain grim tax policy. But we don't live in that world. In ours, tax and spending proposals are crafted based on their appeal to target audiences of voters, with no regard for balancing books or averting financial catastrophe.

With that in mind, it's clear that there are significant differences between the plans that Donald Trump and Joe Biden harbor for our money. Basically, Trump plans to steal less of other people's cash then Biden does, though neither has any serious suggestions for paying for their spending schemes.

First, let's note that the president has been very vague about his tax plans, offering little beyond broad promises of more tax cuts in addition to those provided by the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA).

"Without further details or clarification, it is difficult to fully analyze President Trump's second term tax policy agenda," cautions the Tax Foundation. "Broad themes of the president's agenda include providing tax relief to individuals and tax credits to businesses that engage in desired activities, while the status of expiring TCJA provisions and tariffs seems uncertain."

"We're left with a handful of vague ideas and bullet-point descriptions about various tax cuts the president would like to pursue if he's re-elected," agrees Kiplinger. The financial publication adds that we should "expect the president to seek permanent status for at least some of the provisions in the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) of 2017 that lowered taxes for individuals. Right now, most of those tax cuts are set to expire after 2025."

The TCJA, then, is probably our best insight into Trump's intentions. The law dropped the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21 percent. It also cut personal income taxes for a majority of Americans.

"About 65 percent of households paid less in individual income taxes in 2018 as a result of the TCJA," reports the Tax Policy Center, a project of the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution. "About 6 percent paid more. The rest paid about the same."

"Experts are divided on whether the tax law was a good idea. But there is little disagreement on this core point: Most people got a tax cut," notes The New York Times.

Many of the tax reductions of the TCJA are set to expire in 2025, however. The expiration date was inserted in order to prevent a Senate filibuster by Democrats who opposed the legislation. As a result, a reelected President Trump is expected to try to extend the effects of the law, and that may well constitute the bulk of his tax policy.

Joe Biden, by contrast, has been far clearer than Trump about his tax plans—and about his intention to extract more money from Americans.

"Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden would enact a number of policies that would raise taxes on individuals with income above $400,000, including raising individual income, capital gains, and payroll taxes," say Tax Foundation analysts. "Biden would also raise taxes on corporations by raising the corporate income tax rate and imposing a corporate minimum book tax."

"Biden's tax plan would yield combined top marginal state and local rates in excess of 60 percent in three states: California (62.64 percent), Hawaii (60.34 percent), and New Jersey (60.09 percent)," the Tax Foundation adds.

Biden "wants to raise the highest personal income rate back up to 39.6% (it was lowered to 37% by the 2017 tax reform law), cap itemized deductions for wealthier Americans, limit 'like-kind exchanges' by real estate investors, and phase-out the 20% deduction for qualified business income for upper-income taxpayers," agrees Kiplinger. "He won't raise taxes for anyone making less than $400,000, though."

Biden proposes reducing taxes for lower-income Americans, though not with broad TCJA-style rate cuts. Instead, the Democratic challenger favors targeted breaks, including tax credits and debt forgiveness intended to benefit parents, students, seniors, and other favored groups and to generally incentivize behavior he wants to encourage.

It's necessary, though probably pointless, to emphasize that neither Trump's nor Biden's tax plans come close to paying for the federal government's anticipated spending spree in the years to come.

"Biden's plan would raise tax revenue by $3.05 trillion over the next decade on a conventional basis," assesses the Tax Foundation. "When accounting for macroeconomic feedback effects, the plan would collect about $2.65 trillion the next decade."

It's hard to assign an equivalent revenue number to the president's proposals given the dearth of details, but his emphasis on tax cuts means it's certainly less than Biden's take.

But Trump proposed non-stop deficit spending even before the government started throwing money around to offset jobs lost and businesses closed during the pandemic, according to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO). More tax cuts and continuing deficits mean growing debt.

Biden proposes $7.74 trillion in increased federal spending, tallies the Washington Post's Robert J. Samuelson. That's on top of $13 trillion in deficits over the next decade (calculated before coronavirus spending). That inevitably results in even greater debt beyond what's already forecast.

"By the end of 2020, federal debt held by the public is projected to equal 98 percent of GDP," the CBO warned in September:

The projected budget deficits would boost federal debt to 104 percent of GDP in 2021, to 107 percent of GDP (the highest amount in the nation's history) in 2023, and to 195 percent of GDP by 2050.

High and rising federal debt makes the economy more vulnerable to rising interest rates and, depending on how that debt is financed, rising inflation. The growing debt burden also raises borrowing costs, slowing the growth of the economy and national income, and it increases the risk of a fiscal crisis or a gradual decline in the value of Treasury securities.

This is an appropriate place at which to recognize that Libertarian presidential candidate Jo Jorgensen favors cutting taxes and government spending.

"Taxes are never voluntary—they are always paid under threat of punishment," her campaign website points out. "As president, I will work tirelessly to slash federal spending, make government much, much smaller, and eliminate the federal income tax, so you can keep what you earn."

Jorgensen promises to "block any new borrowing" and to "encourage baseline budgeting. Instead of assuming an increase, we start at zero every year, and then we decide what is vital."

The Libertarian candidate's proposals are light on details, though she offers the rare acknowledgment that taxes and spending involve important tradeoffs, and that not everything people desire is affordable.

But we don't live in a world where economic reality has much popularity, which may be why the only presidential candidate to discuss taxes and spending as linked issues is languishing in the polls at maybe 3 percent. Instead, Americans are at each other's throats over two candidates whose financial proposals promise everything their supporters could want without reference to the real world.

NEXT: Debate's Best Moment: Trump and Biden Bragging on Prison Reform

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  1. For all of dads and moms that love to stay home to take care of their loved ones, or rest of people on the search for an opportunity to pull in some extra income for their family month after month let me share a remarkable opportunity to explore.directions to get started website on line ………..►►Click here.

    1. I get paid more than $120 to $130 per hour for working online. I heard about this job 3 months ago and after joining this i have earned easily $15k from asx this without having online working skills. This is what I do….Visit Here

    2. I get paid more than $120 to $130 per hour for working online. I heard about this job 3 months ago and after joining this i have earned easily $15k from asm this without having online working skills. This is what I do….Visit Here

    3. STAY AT HOME & WORK AT HOME FOR USA ]H̲o̲m̲e̲ ̲B̲a̲s̲i̲c̲ ̲J̲o̲b̲s̲….. ̲E̲v̲e̲r̲y̲b̲o̲d̲y̲ ̲c̲a̲n̲ ̲e̲a̲r̲n̲ ̲u̲p̲t̲o̲ ̲$1̲5̲k̲ ̲e̲v̲e̲r̲y̲ ̲m̲o̲n̲t̲h̲ ̲f̲r̲o̲m̲ ̲h̲o̲m̲e̲ ̲b̲y̲ ̲w̲o̲r̲k̲i̲n̲g̲ ̲o̲n̲l̲i̲n̲e̲. ̲I̲ ̲h̲a̲v̲e̲ ̲r̲e̲c̲e̲i̲v̲e̲d̲ ̲$1̲7̲2̲9̲4̲ ̲l̲a̲s̲t̲ ̲m̲o̲n̲t̲h̲ ̲b̲y̲ ̲d̲o̲i̲n̲g̲ ̲t̲h̲i̲s̲ ̲e̲a̲s̲y̲ ̲a̲n̲d̲ ̲s̲i̲m̲p̲l̲e̲ ̲j̲o̲b̲ ̲o̲n̲l̲i̲n̲e̲ ̲f̲r̲o̲m̲ ̲h̲o̲m̲e̲. ̲I̲t̲s̲ ̲a̲n̲ ̲e̲a̲s̲y̲ ̲a̲n̲d̲ ̲s̲i̲m̲p̲l̲e̲ ̲j̲o̲b̲ ̲t̲o̲ ̲d̲o̲ ̲o̲n̲l̲i̲n̲e̲ ̲a̲n̲d̲ ̲e̲v̲e̲n̲ ̲a̲ ̲l̲i̲t̲t̲l̲e̲ ̲c̲h̲i̲l̲d̲ ̲c̲a̲n̲ ̲d̲o̲ ̲t̲h̲i̲s̲ ̲j̲o̲b̲ ̲f̲r̲o̲m̲ ̲h̲o̲m̲e̲. ̲E̲v̲e̲r̲y̲b̲o̲d̲y̲ ̲c̲a̲n̲ ̲g̲e̲t̲ ̲t̲h̲i̲s̲ ̲j̲o̲b̲ ̲n̲o̲w̲ ̲b̲y̲ ̲j̲u̲s̲t̲ ̲c̲o̲p̲y̲ ̲t̲h̲i̲s̲ ̲s̲i̲t̲e̲ ̲i̲n̲ ̲b̲r̲o̲w̲s̲e̲r̲ ̲a̲n̲d̲ ̲t̲h̲e̲n̲ ̲f̲o̲l̲l̲o̲w̲ ̲i̲n̲s̲t̲r̲u̲c̲t̲i̲o̲n̲ ̲t̲o̲ ̲g̲e̲t̲ ̲s̲t̲a̲r̲t̲e̲d̲…….. ↠↠↠

      H̲E̲R̲E̲►COPY THIS WEBSITE………Click here

      1. Google pays for every Person every hour online working from home job. I have received $23K in this month easily and I earns every weeks $5K to 8$K on the internet. Agh Every Person join this working easily by just just open this website and follow instructions………….. Visit Here

        1. Google is by and by paying $27485 to $29658 consistently for taking a shot at the web from home. I have joined this action 2 months back and I have earned $31547 in my first month from this action. I can say my life is improved completely! Take a gander at it what I do…… Visit Here

    4. I get paid more than $120 to $130 per hour for working online. I heard about this job 3 months ago and after joining this i have earned easily $15k from this without having online working skills. This is what I do Copy blow site Copy Here VISIT HERE MANY DOLLARS.

  2. Citizens! In all times, two political systems have been in existence, and each may be maintained by good reasons. According to one of them, Government ought to do much, but then it ought to take much. According to the other, this two-fold activity ought to be little felt. We have to choose between these two systems. But as regards the third system, which partakes of both the others, and which consists in exacting everything from Government, without giving it anything, it is chimerical, absurd, childish, contradictory, and dangerous. Those who parade it, for the sake of the pleasure of accusing all governments of weakness, and thus exposing them to your attacks, are only flattering and deceiving you, while they are deceiving themselves.
    -Bastiat

    1. Economics, like medicine has come a long way over 100+ years. It’s a science now. Bastiat would know how wrong he was if he came back and read a good article on MMT.

      1. Google is by and by paying $27485 to $29658 consistently for taking a shot at the web from home. I have joined this action TCL 2 months back and I have earned $31547 in my first month from this action. I can say my life is improved completely! Take a gander at it

        what I do………Click here

    2. Dems want the 4th system where Gov takes much and give to the few they like

      1. Google is by and by paying $27485 to $29658 consistently for taking a shot at the web from home. I have joined this action OTD 2 months back and I have earned $31547 in my first month from this action. I can say my life is improved completely! Take a gander at it

        what I do………Click here

  3. Ok, somebody has to call bullshit on Tuccille, who seems to have lost his fucking mind these days. Only one debater, Sleepy Joe Biden, demonstrated complete economic ignorance by advocating for the following:

    More shutdowns and closures because of KungFlu
    Elimination of the fossil fuel industry
    Immediately raising the minimum wage from 7.25 to 15.
    Nationalizing healthcare via a public option to healthcare

    Brain-Damaged Biden lived up to my nickname…he is fucking brain damaged and should not be anywhere near 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

    And I’ll close with a Ken Schultz-like comment here. Cuz it is gr8.

    PS: Joe Biden is corrupt AF

    1. Biden has the balls to fly a fleet of B-52’s through China’s airspace. Come on, man!

      Does Trump?

      1. He has been selling plenty of weaponry to Taiwan.

        1. Looks like Israel is saying OK with F-35s to UAE.

          Hopefully they will be the four cylinder model. The issue with those is more about the technology getting out. Other than that they are just really cool planes. Israelis design and train on those to their own specifications. They have used them successfully for the first time over Syria.

    2. Trump’s tariffs and trade wars show his own ignorance of economics.

      And I am disappoint to see no mention of Trump’s tariffs as the tax raise they are.

      But on the other hand, Biden will raise taxes for more, and spend far more than his raised taxes. No doubt about that at all.

      1. It will be amazing to see the day when you admit trade theft is also a raised cost to consumers. One day. Maybe.

        1. What the heck is “trade theft”? Did you just make that up, or are you parroting some banality Trump made up?

          Another ignoramus economicus.

      2. To be fair, Quid Pro Joe correctly called that out = taxpayers pay for tariffs.

      3. Democrats like tariffs. They are protectionist like Trump.

      4. But unlike 75% of federal actions tariffs are constitutional and are actually a duty of the federal government. Right now around 75% of federal spending is unconstitutional in my opinion and should be done at the state level if at all. While Jo says she’d lower spending, that would take some doing since most of the unconstitutional spending is non-discretionary thanks to both R’s and D’s who benefit from it politically.

    3. Google pays for every Person every hour online working from home job. I have received $23K in this month easily and I earns every weeks $5K to 8$K on the internet. Anp Every Person join this working easily by just just open this website and follow instructions………….. Visit Here

  4. Google is now paying $17000 to $22000 per month for working online from home. I have joined this job 2 months ago and i have earned $20544 in my first month from this job. I can say my life is changed-completely for the better! Check it out this link whaat i do…Click here.

  5. Biden’s plan is to keep the country shuttered until at least 2022, and subsidize every failing business, large and small, with imaginary money.

    For all of his faults, Trump is tethered to reality. Biden lives in a completely alternate universe.

  6. I am now making extra $19k or more every month from home by doing very simple and easy job online from home. I have received exactly $20845 last month from this home job. Ajk Join now this job and start making extra cash online by follow instruction on the given website…….. Visit Here

  7. “and then we decide what is vital.”

    Literally Loled.

    So…nothing would change

  8. one of the differences is Joe Biden is corrupt.

  9. I am now making extra $19k or more every month from home by doing very simple and easy job online from home. I have received exactly $20845 last month from this home job. Adf Join now this job and start making extra cash online by follow instruction on the given website…….. Visit Here

  10. So Trump’s “plan” is awful. But, then again, Biden’s “plan” is off-the-charts” insane. Damn shame we can’t seem to do better.

  11. Make 6,000 dollar to 8,000 dollar A Month Online With No Prior Experience Or Skills Required. Be Your Own Boss AndChoose Your Own Work Hours.Thanks A lot Here>>>Click For Full Detail.

  12. OK, time for a review.
    The article says that Trump’s tax cuts lowered taxes for 65% of taxpayers.
    Basement Bunker Biden himself has said he would repeal those tax cuts.
    Therefore, Basement Bunker Biden will raise taxes on 65% of the taxpayers.
    The percentage of taxpayers making over $400,000 is significantly less than 65%.
    Ergo, ipso facto, henceforth thereunto, Basement Bunker Biden is lying.

    (yielding to peer pressure)
    P.S. Joe Biden is a crook

  13. “The TCJA, then, is probably our best insight into Trump’s intentions. The law dropped the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21 percent. It also cut personal income taxes for a majority of Americans.”

    Biden has promised to raise the corporate tax rate to 28%, which is anti-capitalist on its face.

    That doesn’t seem to have made the article for whatever reason.

    P.S. Joe Biden is a crook.

    1. Nor did the fact that a majority of the Small businesses that will see their taxes go up are things like single member llcs, corporations, or sole proprietorships. I fall in these categories, my taxes will go up 33% (21 to 28%) and I make a good bit less than 400k. And aren’t there something like 35 million small businesses in this country? a majority of which have 0 employees over $400k.

      So fuck you reason and Joe Biden.

      1. We don’t exist, obviously.

        Joe Biden is a liar and a crook.

  14. Biden and Trump Offer Competing Tax Proposals, but Both Ignore Economic Reality

    Way back in pre-history, so long ago that open carry was usual on college campus, we had a saying “Reality is a crutch”.

    1. Damn. Forgot again.

      P.S. Joe Biden is a crook

      1. And Hunter is a pimp.

  15. I am creating an honest wage from home 3000 Dollars/week , that is wonderful, below a year agone i used to be unemployed during a atrocious economy. I convey God on a daily basis i used to be endowed these directions and currently it’s my duty to pay it forward and share it with everybody, Here is I started……. Read More  

  16. The amount of damage Biden and the democrats can do if they take power is astounding. We’ll be looking at years of economic devastation.

  17. I keep having this interaction with my friends:

    Me: “I’m not looking forward to paying more taxes.”
    Friend: “Biden isn’t going to raise the taxes of normal people. Just rich people!”
    Me: “Actually, based on his defined limits, I am going to pay more taxes. Do we fall back to me being an evil asshole who deserves it now?”

    1. How do they respond? Incoherent words, or just sputtering?

      1. They usually get a weird look on their face and fall silent, as if they’ve never accurately visualized a person on the other side of the line, or ever tried to empathize with someone in that position before.

        One lady followed up with “I wish we could decide what our taxes go to pay for”.

        Yeah, democrat: that’s called a “free market”.

        1. That’s called charity

        2. One lady followed up with “I wish we could decide what our taxes go to pay for”.

          I do, too. That should be Schedule A. Get rid of all this arguing over discretionary spending and make it truly discretionary.

        3. You should have explained that in a democracy you don’t always get your way, but you get it more often than you do in a shithole feudalistic hellscape.

          Government should be organized according to the market. Just incredible distilled libertarian horseshit. *Chef kiss.*

          “No, darling, I don’t think we’ll purchase a war today, we have to add 400 feet to our yacht and it’s getting late.”

          1. She was a democrat, not a libertarian.

            I’ll let you explain it to her.

    2. You may be an evil asshole who deserves it, but that’s not why we tax people. It would be unconstitutional to tax you for that reason, I’m pretty sure.

      You get to have taxes + world’s greatest civilization, or you get no taxes + be illiterate, eat rats, and be the plaything of your local warlord. He will want more than taxes out of you.

      1. I think you’re being just a tad hyperbolic with that false choice.

      2. At least we would have only have the warlord if we avoid putting your pals in charge.

  18. “Trump plans to steal less of other people’s cash then Biden does, though neither has any serious suggestions for paying for their spending schemes.”

    Hmm – wonder which is preferable?

  19. STAY AT HOME & WORK AT HOME FOR USA ►Check it out, and start earning yourself . for more info visit any tab this site Thanks a lot Here…Click here.

  20. “steal less” — That’s all I need to hear.

  21. Make $6,000-$8,000 A Month Online With No Prior Experience Or Skills Required. Be Your Own Boss And for more info visit any tab this site Thanks a lot….. Read More  

  22. “They want to spend more public money than we have!”
    “Taxation is theft!”

    Consistent, yes. Stupid, yes.

    1. Tony, why is it stupid to be concerned about the current $27 TRILLION federal deficit and the over $75 TRILLION unfunded debts of Social Security & Medicare?
      At some point in the near future all of that debt is going to do severe damage to the economy. What’s your solution? And taking all of the wealth of the top 1% won’t cut it.

      1. You can be concerned about it if you want, but you’re still going to vote for the Republicans who are consistently responsible for blowing up the debt, aren’t you? You’re going to advocate never ever for any reason raising any revenues, aren’t you?

        The choice right now is whether to spend money to save the economy from a depression or not spend money and have a depression, which won’ be so good for the debt anyway.

        1. You are just Me. False Choice today.

          It really isn’t our fault your mind is in a box.

          1. So all you need to do is explain your plan to prevent a depression. If you don’t want to prevent a depression, we have nothing to discuss because our goals are different, and I’ll see you at the polls.

            1. How about: don’t overreact and shut down the economy because you’re scared?

              The dollar is going to be destroyed and it’s fiscal policy like this that will do it.

              Do you wonder why the stock market is booming during this “depression”?

              Because it’s one of the last places for money to go. My portfolio is fine, but I can’t speak for the unemployed.

              Anyway, I have nothing to lose. If I’m you’re wrong and I’m right, then, cool, I get to live in a society that I don’t deserve. But if I’m right and you’re wrong, then you can enjoy getting exactly what you deserve, knowing you asked for it, and I can say “I told you so.”

              So, really, no matter what happens, I win.

              1. It’s not about “deserve.” You conservative types can’t even talk about national fiscal policy without wedging chimpanzee morality into the issue.

                The points you raise are empirically testable, and they have been tested, but you’ll never accept the results because you are psychologically invested in the social clout of a, let’s face it, rather eccentric economic philosophy that only survives because eccentric billionaires have subsidized it. (And they have so very conveniently invented a morality that justifies billionaires subsidizing bad ideas.)

                Believe it or not, I have much less emotional investment in the rightness of the economic ideas I subscribe to; the only reason I subscribe to them is because I understand them to have proven efficacy. Make a better empirical case and I’ll abandon them.

                On the other hand every crisis has novel aspects, and economics is far from a complete science. But you should at least be open to now-orthodox options for handling a potential depression caused by natural disaster. We’re trying hysterical insane batshittery right now, and for some reason god only knows you seem to actually prefer that to any mainstream policy option.

                1. Given the tax lines the Biden administration draws and where I fall on them, I must be doing something right despite my eccentric economic philosophy.

                  Or, maybe because of it. I’ve long known that, if you’re waiting around for the government to solve your problems, then, get used to waiting; if I wanted something in this life, I wasn’t going to get it by shrieking on the internet and voting.

                  Considering that people like you have decided the civilization itself should be funded by people like me to the exclusion of yourself, I wish you could just say “Thank you. Thank you for doing so well that you have the extra to pay for all of this, no matter how crazy and stupid the federal government can be.”

                  Instead all I get is “you’re an evil rich asshole that deserves it because life is unfair in your favor!” Your complains about morality would be taken more seriously if you weren’t so obsessed with the wrongness of anyone having more than you, or not letting you have enough of a say in how it’s spent.

                  Believe it or not, high income people like me aren’t “out to get” low income people like you. We don’t take the economic positions we take so you’ll subsidize my second house while giving me a tax break.

                  The efficacy of temporary monetary policy relief during a depression is true. It’s also a known fact that, if the dollar collapses, the world will go into economic turmoil. It will bring about a depression while simultaneously destroying the bond market. And that will bring even more pain and suffering than any of the foolish democrat policy responses to this pandemic and the rampant unemployment they have caused.

                  Actually, it people like you who are so invested in heterodox “modern monetary theory” because it gives you an excuse for politicians to spend like drunken sailors while hand-waiving away any concerns. If you’re going to invest in cinderella fantasy stories, “scarcity really doesn’t exist” is a pretty convenient one.

                  That’s not me being “eccentric”. That’s me telling you the facts. Telling me that Keynesian economics means the dollar never crashes is a non sequitur.

                  The biggest problem I have with democrats is that you don’t know the difference between intelligence and intellectual dishonesty. If you guys were really intelligent, Hillary Clinton would be president.

                  1. You still can’t figure out the difference between a tax policy and a chit for being a good human being (good in this context equating to rich, a nice little psychotic turn of rhetoric). You brag about your income in every paragraph as if it has anything to do with anything. You’re the one worried about the consequences of spending too much public money. You should be volunteering to pay more taxes.

                    A depression caused by natural disaster will result in massive government spending. The question isn’t to spend or not to spend. Unless you want things to go to some real shit, presumably you’re not going to agitate for safety nets like unemployment insurance and Medicaid to be obliterated in the middle of a depression. The orthodox fiscal policy I endorse is about saving money in the medium term rather than simply ignoring any and all problems and letting chips fall where they may. I’m not even sure what you’re offering. Decrease spending and taxing during a depression? When we’re killing each other over scraps of roadkill, how on earth does a hypothetical dollar crash even matter?

                    (A crashing dollar may have been your ideological fixation for decades after decade, but it hasn’t happened yet despite your constant warnings, but that’s beside the point since your policy would simply result in even more federal deficit spending because it treats a depression as something to wait out.)

                    1. I’m sorry, but as an educated person, I doubt the efficacy of neurotically shutting down the economy and then trying to bail it out as a long term policy. That should be avoided, actually.

                      You could just try not being crazy, if your intellectual dishonesty will permit it.

    2. THEFT IS A RIGHT!!!! /s

      1. Do you support Republican efforts to steal people’s votes by the millions?

        A vote is something of value. Taking it away is stealing. Fuck you.

        1. Tony: Individual votes don’t and shouldn’t usually matter. That doesn’t sound very valuable. I’d happily sell mine to you. How much would you pay for it? Think about your answer to that question: if it was OK to buy votes, how much would you pay for just one?

          If you can be scared to death of limited government, it’s perfectly fine for someone to be scared to death of pure democracy. Fine, then: some people not voting is the price we pay for civilization, and I feel no reason to qualify that beyond my own shrieking.

          Happy, now?

          1. Let’s say a vote is worth $1. Okay so it’s okay to steal a million dollars as long as I do it one dollar per person. The gains I receive as a result of my theft aren’t to be considered by society, because I spread my crime among many rather than few.

            And we aren’t even talking about the fact that you’re actually defending a party’s right to steal people’s vote from them, an infraction that goes far deeper than petty or grand theft.

            Be scared to death of democracy. I don’t care how you feel. I care that you’re stealing from me.

            1. I’m not stealing anything from you, silly.

              You can go vote for Joe Biden in Oklahoma for all the good it will do you. I imagine it’s feeling like you’re a part of something bigger than yourself. Politicians like Joe Biden always seem to get the best end of that deal, but, you go express yourself.

              1. You do have the freedom to participate in any combination of aspects of democracy you wish, even those that idiosyncratically exclude the most basic civic participation. No skin off my nose. In fact, don’t vote. Bring your friends. I am 100% on board with your liberty to willingly cede governing power to me.

                That’s beside the point. Minorities shouldn’t get to rule over majorities. That’s the entire innovation that is at the heart of what your friends so euphemistically celebrate as “western civilization.” That’s a progressive project, period, and I’m here to defend it.

                1. “A progressive project is to make sure majorities have their way with minorities!”

                  You should pre-flight that slogan with your friends first.

                2. I bet you $2,000 Oklahoma goes to Trump and you might as well have voted for him for all that it will matter.

        2. “Do you support Republican efforts to steal people’s votes by the millions?”

          Do you ever post without lying, shitstain?

        3. lol… Tony; Deceitfully trying to confuse the debate. What’s that I told you about the number-one catalyst for corruption again???

          1. It’s usually oil money.

  23. Anyway, I will support Mr. Trump.
    His policies have helped my business grow a lot
    I’ll vote for Trump! Follow me please!
    And for Trump ae888: http://bit.ly/ae888win

  24. Google paid for every week online work from home 8000 to 10000 dollars.i have received first month $24961 and $35274 in my last month paycheck from Google and i work 3 to 5 hours a day in my spare time easily from home. It’s really user friendly and I’m just so happy that I found out about it..go to this site for more details…Visit here to earn thousands of dollars

  25. That cant be adjustable. Just goes sad Status about this.

  26. When i got the news that something is going to happen, Its motivate me a lot about induction cooktops.

  27. A writer that does not know when to use “then” and when to use “than” loses all credibility. Pathetic! Get a new job….Try plumber.

    1. Plumbing if done incorrectly has serious consequences. I would pick something less critical like, writing.

  28. I noticed JoJo got a hit on the google news feed for her views on health care financing.

    One point is she wants to eliminate employer based insurance in favor of individual plans. That sounds good except the advantage of employer based insurance is they can buy it much cheaper than I can. Most smaller to medium sized companies outsource. The outsource benefits company combines its pool of clients to negotiate with insurance companies who in turn negotiate with providers.

    She brings up Lasik and cosmetic surgery as examples. However those two are outliers as the demand is more elastic than most things in medicine. I don’t really need them compared to an appendectomy.

    My employer does not pay for my house or car insurance yet most of us can afford those things. I do think that there is a point there. Yet my employer does not have a vested interest in those things.

    It can be argued that my employer has an interest in my health since I may have skills not so easily replaced. It is a mutually beneficial relationship.

    Also co pays, deductibles and HSAs can and do pay for most routine costs. We have that now.

    Not a box of cornflakes.

    Jo Jorgensen is on the ballot in all 50 states. She needs our votes and support.

    1. Jo just wants to change the tax credits for healthcare from your employer to you. Your employer can still offer group plans if they like.

      And the reason employer plans are often cheaper is because of the perverse incentives the current system has: if you try to get an individual policy, you’re likely in a high risk category, and insurers are prohibited from evaluating your true risk individually. That will change as an individual market develops

      A free individual market is essential for dealing with preexisting conditions.

      1. This is actually how the market works. You pool risk. Everyone wins if you can get it. The company can recruit and retain a workforce and the workforce can choose to accept the offer or look elsewhere.

        To get me and my skills and efforts, the company gives certain perks. If that is not capitalism what is?

        I still am a supporter of Jo. I do think that medical economy is not a box of cornflakes. There is a huge gap between Lasik surgery and a heart attack. Consumer choice and elasticity of demand are not at all the same there.

        1. There is a huge gap between Lasik surgery and a heart attack.

          But current regulations on health insurance have made these kinds of distinctions moot for the most part.

          1. My insurance will not pay for Lasik nor cosmetic surgery.

            If I have a heart attack, well hope it kicks in.

            1. Your insurance doesn’t have to pay for those; free market competition has driven the cost down such that you have no need.
              Serious question: Are you an MD?

              1. As mentioned elsewhere, I deal with MDs in various social and technical circumstances.
                Most, to be honest, are snobbish pieces of shit; few are willing to admit they are merely folks who have spent a good bit of studying for their jobs.
                I’m asking as you seem to fall into the first bucket.
                Care to comment?

      2. Now you want more income tax. The part of the insurance the employer pays and writes off as an expense, not profit, you want to charge me income tax for. I can’t write that off.

        Is that ok from a libertarian standpoint?

        Pre existing conditions is a separate issue. I can only offer a consequential view of that. When you have diabetics who cannot get care you will have a more people with gangrene and toes rotting off requiring more expensive amputations. Since they will get that anyway the cost will be passed on. Your Advil in the ED is now $100.

        Not a box of cornflakes.

        1. It’s actually quite simple. Eliminate every single insurance regulation.

          1. I do not think that will happen.

            Medicine is one regulation on top of another. You could write one thousand pages and still not untie it.

            1. Echospinner
              October.24.2020 at 3:51 pm
              “I do not think that will happen.”

              I’ll take that under advisement.

        2. “Pre existing conditions is a separate issue. I can only offer a consequential view of that. When you have diabetics who cannot get care you will have a more people with gangrene and toes rotting off requiring more expensive amputations. Since they will get that anyway the cost will be passed on. Your Advil in the ED is now $100.”

          So we have people dying on the streets?
          My ER Advil at $100 is far cheaper and more effective than the Brit NHS waiting lists.

  29. I am making a good salary from home $1200-$2500/week , which is amazing, under a year back I was jobless in a horrible economy. I thank God every day I was blessed with these instructions and now it’s my duty to pay it forward and share it with Everyone, Here is what I do. Follow details…… Read More  

  30. Your options are the following:

    1. Pay lower taxes and the federal government takes on massive historic debt levels.

    OR

    2. Pay higher taxes and the federal government takes on massive historic debt levels.

    That’s it. Those are your two options.

    1. Exactly! I wish more people understood this.

    2. Starve the beast.

  31. Jorgenson is hands down the best candidate. It’s not even close.

    She’s also the best libertarian party candidate i’ve ever seen.

    1. ^ this

    2. She’s the worst I’ve ever seen; Be just like Switzerland, Little mention of the US Constitution….. Na, not even close to the liking’s of Ron and Rand Paul.

      1. Worse than Gary “Gimme Bill Weld, I beg you!” Johnson? Jorgensen admires Switzerland’s non-interventionist foreign policy and decentralized model of governance. Rand Paul doesn’t even claim to be a libertarian.

        1. OK, I held my nose and voted for Jo, but jackass’ quote of her lie that the US is providing $Xbn in subsidies to the petroleum industry is enough to make me wish I hadn’t.

  32. Google paid for every week online work from home 8000 to 10000 dollars.i have received first month $24961 and $35274 in my last month paycheck from Google and i work 3 to 5 hours a day in my spare time easily from home. It’s really user friendly and I’m just so happy that I found out about it..go to this site for more details…
    CLICK HERE FOR FULL DETAIL

  33. Google paid for every week online work from home 8000 to 10000 dollars.i have received first month $24961 and $35274 in my last month paycheck from Google and i work 3 to 5 hours a day in my spare time easily from home. It’s really user friendly and I’m just so happy that I found out about it..go to this site for more details…
    CLICK HERE FOR FULL DETAIL

  34. Make $6,000-$8,000 A Month Online With No Prior Experience Or Skills Required. Be Your Own Boss And for more info visit any tab this site Thanks a lot….. Read More  

  35. Biden’s “bipartisan commission on court reform” is actually giving the GOP another out because I think Joe doesn’t want to be the President that “packed the court.” The GOP didn’t give the Dems any say when they set court reform in motion. Garland didn’t even get a hearing. Leaving Scalia’s seat open for 14 months is manipulating the court’s size for political gain. The GOP opened the goddamn door. They then could of deescalated by waiting 6 weeks for the election. If they’re so confident in Trump winning then why not wait?

    It’s funny the “cut throat” tactics each party uses. The Dems want as many people to vote safely as possible. The GOP wants to restrict voting, and make it hard to vote. The Dems think DC and PR should be given the same representation as everyone else. The GOP will say that’s gerrymandering or that “average Americans don’t support DC or PR statehood.” If that’s an argument I don’t support Utah statehood.
    I’ll get called a bigot like usual. Do those people realize they’re defending people who worship pedophiles? People on these comments are crazy, but defending pedo worship is just wrong.

    Some great NFL games this week. Most reason commenters will miss out because the uppity bla… I mean “disrespecting our anthem.” Pussy conservative snowflakes getting offended so easily and acting like victims all the time.

    1. Fuck off and die, lefty shit.

  36. BTW and OT: Sad news.
    One of the heroes of those who reject bullshit has died:
    “James Randi, dazzling magician and skeptic, dies at 92”
    https://apnews.com/article/james-randi-magician-obituaries-8b14c7fe50695303efd0ddd029e68f18

  37. The economic situation remains the main engine of development, they should not be ignored!

  38. I get paid more than $120 to $130 per hour for working online. I heard about this job 3 months ago and after joining this i have earned easily $15k from this without having online working skills. This is what I do..Usa Online Jobs

  39. Echospinner
    October.24.2020 at 11:47 am
    “Looks like Israel is saying OK with F-35s to UAE.
    Hopefully they will be the four cylinder model. The issue with those is more about the technology getting out. Other than that they are just really cool planes. Israelis design and train on those to their own specifications. They have used them successfully for the first time over Syria.”

    I’ve asked whether you are an MD simply because you exhibit the totally un-earned and obnoxious arrogance shared by many MDs with profs in the “studies” majors in many schools.
    I understand you not answering; lefty shits with such arrogance are rarely willing to admit such.
    Fuck off and die.

Please to post comments

Comments are closed.