Trump Pushed To Condemn White Nationalist Proud Boys, Instead Tells Them 'Stand Back and Stand By'

Leaders of the organization reportedly see this as tacit approval.

In tonight's debate between President Donald Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden, the protests and violence in several American cities over the summer dominated the second half of the discussion.

Biden was pressed (as he has been this summer) to disavow violence and rioting by antifa protesters. Biden did so, saying "Violence is never appropriate."

Host and Fox News anchor Chris Wallace then noted that Trump has been criticized repeatedly for refusing to denounce the violence that comes from white nationalists at some of these protests. Wallace asked Trump, "Are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia groups to say they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of the cities as we saw in Kenosha and as we've seen in Portland?"

Trump said, "Sure, I'm willing to do that, but I would say, almost everything I see is from the left-wing, not from the right-wing." After demanding from Wallace specific names of groups he should condemn, Biden and Wallace settled on the Proud Boys. Trump responded not with condemnation but by saying "Proud Boys, stand back and stand by." Then he veered the discussion immediately toward antifa violence, saying "I'll tell you what. Somebody's gotta do something about antifa and the left, because this is not a right-wing problem, this is a left-wing problem."

That's not a condemnation. Trump still, unlike Biden, seems unable to repudiate violence from people who support him. The clip from C-SPAN is below:

Chris Wallace: "Are you willing, tonight, to condemn white supremacists and militia groups…?"

President Trump: "Sure, I'm willing to do that…Proud Boys, stand back and stand by! But I'll tell you what…somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left." pic.twitter.com/9gJ8qyO4hL

— CSPAN (@cspan) September 30, 2020

Trump can sometimes speak unclearly, so some will point to his vague verbal style to excuse tonight's comments. Regardless of the president's intent, the Telegram account for the Proud Boys reportedly immediately made a mockup a logo with "Stand Back" and "Stand By" as text, suggesting that the message they received is to wait for potential action. The Daily Beast reports that Proud Boys leader Joe Briggs wrote on Parler that in reality, "Trump basically said to go fuck them up. This makes me so happy."

Update: On Wednesday afternoon, given a chance to more carefully frame a statement, Trump was much more clear at telling the Proud Boys to "stand down and let law enforcement do their work," according to Bloomberg's White House reporter:

BREAKING: "They have to stand down and let law enforcement do their work," Trump says of Proud Boys, adding "I don't know who the Proud Boys are." pic.twitter.com/1Odm4zGrOJ

— Jennifer Jacobs (@JenniferJJacobs) September 30, 2020

Comments

[A Thinking Mind]

That's not a condemnation. Trump still, unlike Biden, seems unable to repudiate violence from people who support him.

So that's really what people are going to run with. It's a very weaksauce point when he said he condemns it and then actually did call out a specific group by name.

The left actually has plenty of ways they could hammer Trump on his performance tonight, and this is the possibly the worst talking point they could have used. In that exchange he actually got Biden to say antifa isn't a problem, which looks just as bad for Biden.

[John]

I think you are right. It makes me wonder if he baited them. He choose not to fall all over himself like the left demanded. The question is why. And it is a good guess that he did that knowing they would do what you are saying and knowing that it is likely to be an ineffective attack.

Meanwhile, the viewers of Telemundo seem to think Trump won the debate. That is interesting. I am not sure what it means, but it is interesting.

https://twitter.com/danielggarza/status/1311139548706074626?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1311139548706074626%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdisqus.com%2Fembed%2Fcomments%2F%3Fbase%3Ddefaultf%3Dpj-instapunditt_i%3D1-403677t_u%3Dhttps3A2F2Fpjmedia.com2Finstapundit2Ftake-this-for-what-its-worth-from-the-biden-supportin2Ft_e%3DTAKE20THIS20FOR20WHAT20ITE28099S20WORTH20FROM20THE20BIDEN-SUPPORTING20ANDREW20SULLIVAN3A0D0A0D0A0D0AE280A6t_d%3DInstapundit20C2BB20Blog20Archive20C2BB20TAKE20THIS20FOR20WHAT20ITE28099S20WORTH20FROM20THE20BIDEN-SUPPORTING20ANDREW20SULLIVAN3A20E280A6t_t%3DTAKE20THIS20FOR20WHAT20ITE28099S20WORTH20FROM20THE20BIDEN-SUPPORTING20ANDREW20SULLIVAN3A0D0A0D0A0D0AE280A6s_o%3Ddescl%3Dversion%3Dd716a1690aa4a08a02a6dcd8b6774c08

[Chumby]

GOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAALLLLL

[Nardz]

O-le, ole ole ole!

[Red Tony]

Those goddamn beaners just don't know what's good for them. They're just not that smart. /Democrats

Also: next time use the a href thing so it doesn't look like your browser took a shit all over the comments section.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Completely bonkers.

[John]

We know. Dumb fucking beaners. They need a smart white man like you to set them straight.

God you people are racist fucks.

[mad.casual]

Those shadowy, grass roots white supremacist groups... subverting mainstream media again!

[Gray_Jay]

This may have all of the validity of those Ron Paul internet polls, way back when. Just saying.

But it is a nice surprise for the Trump Campaign. Trump pulls 40 percent or more Hispanics, and Biden is DOA.

[Red Tony]

Betting markets are panicking over this, even though debates have pretty low influence on how people vote (and let's face it, in this election? Pretty much everyone who's voting knows what they're gonna do).

PredictIt generally has Biden 59¢ yes, Trump 45¢ yes. (No, they don't balance out right.) As of right now, Trump's circling towards 42¢, and I'm really hoping to pick up a few shares there and flip them for 45 in a few days.

[John]

The betting markets are primarily Europeans who have no fucking clue about American politics.

[Red Tony]

Perhaps, perhaps not. Either way, the market seemed to have stabilized at that 59/45 split, and I'm certain it'll swing back as the debate fades/new polls come out/people decide Trump is slightly undervalued.

Buying the dip!

$10 worth of dip, but still. Dip.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

I vaguely remember banks being forbidden to allow payments to betting websites. That would make them mostly foreigners, and I would guess probably mostly Europeans for no particular reason.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

Unlike most Americans?

[loveconstitution1789]

Hillary was the favorite too.

If polls and political donations have biden in the lead then he loses like Hillary did.

Its MSM smoke and mirrors.

[JoeB]

Dollar amounts and votes are not equivalent. Rich liberals may bet millions on Biden, but only have a few thousand Minnesota votes each.

[A Thinking Mind]

I don't think I've watched a presidential debate since...2004? Probably?

Was this shitshow really atypical, or is that just how these things go?

[Eric]

It was like watching your two dumbest uncles fight over who banged the ugliest girl in school first.

[Red Tony]

...am I your cousin?

[Red Tony]

*nephew

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

You will be.

[Red Tony]

Was that supposed to sound ominous?

[JoeB]

Yep, you nailed it perfectly. Just like that ugly girl.

[loveconstitution1789]

Only watched this debate because relative wants into politics now. Shes voting Trump because of the debate.

[Rhombus of Terror]

That's kind of surprising. As someone has already decided my vote based on the continued and escalating threat the left poses, I thought Trump's performance was weak (he was unfocused and didn't attack on the open points he could have crushed Biden on).

- He didn't attack Biden on the hoax that he called the white supremacists "very fine people" (he very quietly mentioned it)
- He didn't attack Biden on COMPLETELY evading the court packing question
- He didn't point out that it was DEMOCRAT GOVERNORS who were locking down the economy, not him.
- I don't remember Trump attacking Biden on being the one who suggested they use the Logan Act to go after someone who'd already been shown to be innocent.

What was it about the debate that "flipped" your relative, I'm genuinely curious.

[Nardz]

I don't think he had a great performance either, but he did do all the things you mentioned.
Obviously not clearly enough though.

[CLM1227]

He did do the Logan Act one. But the rest I agree... I was a bit disappointed in that.

But being informed voters, we may be the least capable of judging how he did with people with a normal, healthy interest in politics.

[Rhombus of Terror]

I will agree that already having knowledge on those issues will skew how effective his attacks/defenses were for those things. I KNOW there were much better things he could have pressed both on offense and defense that he didn't, but the things he said may very well have been good enough for most voters.

Overall, Chris Wallace's moderating was pretty lopsided in Biden's favor and Trump didn't seem very prepared to nail Biden with good points. I think Trump thought he could just bully Biden, who had a stronger performance than I expected (which isn't saying much). Biden really had nothing to say other than: "Trump doesn't have a plan! Trump lies! That's been debunked! I KNEW how to beat COVID from the beginning!"

[JoeB]

So, we here are actually a support group for people with an abnormal, unhealthy interest in politics? I can deal with that.

[loveconstitution1789]

She laughed when Wallace brought up the Trump tax return nonsense because it was some last minute Lefty bombshell.

Being new to politics, she cannot believe how stupid and big liars the Democrats are.

[JoeB]

Tell her she is smart, insightful, and lovely.

[loveconstitution1789]

Ho was it a shitshow?

Democrat spew lies and Trump is one of the few ballsey Republicans to hack at the lies with every breath.

America is better because he is a patriot.

[CLM1227]

Biden was definitely the biggest liar in this debate. I won't hold my breath for fact checkers to confirm.

[awesomepic4u]

I swear I’ve read more than once that the Proud Boys aren’t racist; they accept all races and sexual orientations, just understood their dogma to require their members to believe that western values are the best and they are big into chauvinism. I’m sure at this point there are racists in the mix, but my understanding is that they advocate for western culture, not racial superiority.

[Cyto]

Shhhh...

[John C. Randolph]

they are big into chauvinism

"chauvinism" is a bullshit term that commies came up with to smear anyone who prioritizes their own country over international communism. Feminists picked it up in the late 60s when they were infiltrated by Marxists.

-jcr

[Johnny Lawrence]

This is why I raised the “white nationalist” vs. “white supremacist” distinction above, that Shackford so easily glosses over and misquotes.

[Mickey Rat]

Are the Proud Boys nationalists or white nationalists?

Do they favor the foundational philosophies of Western Civilization out of racial pride or because they think they good as ideas?

Those have rather different meanings.

I really do not trust the MSM conventional wisdom on what they are, but I also do not have sources otherwise to properly judge them.

[Nardz]

I think they have a website

[Johnny Lawrence]

I’m certainly no expert, so the following is just my own interpretation of the terms:

(1) Nationalists are about promoting the interests of one country (or nation, if you’re going to be persnickety over definitions) over the interests of others. It’s the “America First” dynamic.

(2) White Nationalists are a subset of Nationalists, who happen to be white. Largely, I view “white” as nothing more than an adjective here (but I’ll come back to this**).

(3) White supremacists believe in the superiority of the white race.

On the second point: Despite my dismissal as a mere adjective, I think there has been an intentional attempt to use “White Nationalists” to blur the lines between Nationalism and White Supremacy, exactly for this reason. It creates a bridge that allows Nationalists to be conflated with White Supremacists—that means you can call a large core of Trump supporters the latter.

[Granite]

Very good insight. In fact that’s exactly what I did myself - upon seeing “white nationalists” everywhere today, I conflated that with white supremacists without even thinking about it.

Unless I read your point, I would have continued thinking that white nationalists are inherently racist, forgetting that the term just defines a subset of a political position (ostensibly distinguishing the term white not just as a demographic, but as a racially motivated demographic).

Alas, it seems merely being white is racist these days. And that’s what the intention of this movement is: for whites to either lay down and feel guilty for nothing they did, or for whites to strike back and incite civil war.

The correct thing to do is neither. Just recognize the color revolution for what it is and be aware of their divisive tactics.

[Johnny Lawrence]

Thanks. To your point, I think the Left would say that the concept of “America First” or even just a full-throated defense of western culture/Enlightenment principles is, well, “racist.“

So they truly don’t see a difference between Nationalist and White Supremacist.

[CLM1227]

There has been so much dishonesty in the MSM surrounding nationalism, white nationalism, and white supremacy. The right pundits have contributed heavily to that clusterfuck.

There are distinctions and differences, but the average person with only a passing interest is going to go out and figure out what the differences are.

Essentially, nationalism is the predominant expression in America out of the three. There is no such thing as white nationalism in America, because whites are not one nation in America - we are a bunch of nations.

[ThomasD]

Kind of like Wallace euphemized critical race theory as "racial sensitivity."

Dishonesty being the way to demonstrate your journolistic legitimacy.

[mad.casual]

They're explicitly a reactionary anti-antifa group. Full stop. If Antifa didn't exist, neither would the Proud Boys. The only thing that makes them 'right' or 'alt-right' is that they think Richard Spencer and Milo Yiannopolis (or anyone else) shouldn't get punched in the head just for walking down the street. Thematically, they're as white supremacist/right wing as the ACLU in the 70s.

[CLM1227]

+1

[Azathoth!!]

Milo, not Spencer.

They backed out of Charlottesville's 'Unite The Right' rally--which they were organizers of-- because the Richard Spencer brigade had latched on.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

I couldn't make it through the entire debate. Did Biden get called out on Antifa?

[A Thinking Mind]

Chris Wallace tried to shut up Trump when he mentioned antifa. Biden went onto say something along the lines of "There is no organization called antifa, it's just an idea."

[Cyto]

And it is no threat.

Said with Wallace desperately trying to shut him up so he could move away from Antifa.

[CLM1227]

With the promise that "riots will be covered."
Liar. Maybe Wallace and Biden were neck and neck on lies.

[loveconstitution1789]

That and loaded questions like why doesnt Trump have a health care plan.

[loveconstitution1789]

Biden clearly got called out for not stopping burning of cities.

As I said before, Nixon type landslide for Trump because Americans dont want their cities burned to the ground.

[Granite]

Duh. I don’t know why people believe the polls - common sense says no one is voting for Biden. No one.

[Cyto]

That was a brilliant moment and a clear demonstration of what this debate was.

Paraphrasing: "There have been a lot of riots this summer (by the BLM and Antifa crowd - unstated).... will you condemn any efforts by racist white nationalists to add to the violence?"

Trump: "I'm gonna mostly ignore that stupid question and say they should stand back, (which is what they asked him to call for)... but we really need to talk about Antifa.."

Wallace: We are not going to talk about Antifa.

Biden: Antifa is just an idea. They don't exist.

Trump: Antifa is rioting every...

Wallace: We are not going to talk about Antifa. Let's talk about global warming instead.

[A Thinking Mind]

Trump really needed to ask Biden that, if there's no antifa, who those black shirts in Portland actually are.

[CE]

but global warming is just an idea

[The White Knight]

Chris Wallace said "stand down", which is different from "stand back" or "stand by". But it's hard to say whether Trump was just being a bit inarticulate when he turned "stand down" into "stand by". If Trump wants to show he cares about making his position clear, he could issue a statement or a tweet tomorrow clearly denouncing right-wing violence; doubt he will.

[De Oppresso Liber]

But i bet the cultists will have another excuse for that. Probably some twist on 7d chess.

[Sevo]

I'll bet your TDS can somehow justify your bullshit,
Well, not really; you and WK pretty much define an TDS; assholes who live for nothing else.

[JoeB]

No. Trump cannot allow the acceptance of the fake narrative that right-wingers of any stripe have anything to do with riots in 2020. Wallace tried to legitimize that fake narrative, and Trump rightly 🙂 shut him down. Sorry, try again.

[Granite]

Yes - is it not obvious that the universal goal, the huge push by everyone in the media, is to re-elect trump?

I mean, how could they make it any easier with Wallace stating they will not talk about the biggest thing in America? What do you think every normal American is thinking when he does that?

They think that there is a system in place devised to prevent trump from getting elected, just like last time. Which they won’t talk about publicly because they’ll immediately be deemed a conspiracy theorist.

Thus, the polls are heavily skewed left, and the vote will be the inverse.

The fix is in. But it’s not Biden that it’s in for.

[Cyto]

Exactly what right wing violence is that?

I mean, I know you play a chatbot level character, but these "denounce this" talking points are absolutely insane.

We have months of left-wing violence sponsored by left wing groups and fomented by left wing politicians and prosecutors.... so we have to denounce right wing racist hate group violence?

We have democrat governors all over the country changing elections without going through any procedure, moving to mail ballots to everyone, in some cases even beyond "registered voters" or even "citizens" to "all residents". We have the Biden campaign and democrat administrations fighting to ensure that ballots that have no postmark and even ballots cast after election day are counted. We have video evidence of ballot harvesting by democrat operatives in Minnesota. We have pretty much every major democrat saying that the election will look like Trump won on election day, but that Biden will eventually prove to be the winner once they finish fighting with their "all star legal team". We have HRC saying that Biden should never concede the election.

We are about as gaslit as you can possibly be.

But we have to demand that Trump vow that he will not claim victory if he wins, and that he solemnly promise to concede the election. And for heaven's sake... we must prevent those right wing groups from rioting after Trump loses... because that's what we have evidence of. /sarc.

All politics is stupid, that kind of goes without saying.

But this whole "you must vow not to mention the bad thing we are doing" proposition is pretty over the top even by that measure.

[Chipper Morning Wood--------------------------------------------------------------------------]

Dude, it's simple. Biden denounced violence in one sentence. Why is that so hard. Trump could not do it.

[Cyto]

No he didn't. And he hasn't.

He specifically frames it as "those other guys are the bad guys and I'm very much so not about to talk about BLM or Antifa".

It takes the form of "Trump won't denounce these violent alt-right white supremacists. But I condemn violence of all sorts. "

He's had 4 months to actually use his admittedly limited following to try to quell the riots. He has not even mildly attempted to do so.

And there's a reason for that. And it isn't that Joe is senile or doesn't know what is happening.

[Tony]

You people are so fucked.

You’re defending Nazis.

[Cyto]

What Nazi? Where the hell did you even get that? Have you ever even seen more than 3?

Every post, a non-sequitur. Do you really think that persuades anyone? Or is it enough to just gum up the works?

[Tony]

I could have just made fun of you for being so stupid and propagandized that you are seriously bitching that Joe Biden hasn’t done enough as a private citizen to quell protests.

[Cyto]

So... no actual Nazis and you were just talking out of your ass.

And no defense for DNC fomenting violence other than "Joe Biden is a private citizen".

That's.... extraordinarily lame.

[Tony]

Joe Biden has done nothing but condemn the violence that Trump has deliberately inflamed. You can’t be this far gone.

[loveconstitution1789]

Dont you know...nazi violence in WWII was trumps fault?

[JoeB]

But Biden shoots his mouth off about how blocking entry from China in January is racist. Private citizen my ass.

[mad.casual]

So, you just want a president to parrot your own talking points back to you then. Whether he believes in them or not. If Biden condemns violence in the debate and then declares war, you're cool with that. As stated above, you don't have principles or even good ideas, you just crave the moral righteousness of voting for Biden.

[The White Knight]

There has been some right-wing violence. Most notably Kyle Rittenhouse killing two people, and severely wounding another.

Steven Carrillo killing a Santa Cruz County sheriff.

The caravan driving through Portland shooting pepper spray at people.

On top of that, there's the potential violence, sitting there like a powder keg, that could be touched off. Militia roaming around with weapons.

[Cyto]

You really want to put Kyle Rittenhouse in "right wing violence"?

Dude was asked by an Indian immigrant to help protect his only remaining business (the other 2 having burned down). Dude was chased by a mob with murderous intent - and at least 1 other person fired before he did.... from the ground as a mob was about to overtake him.

Then he went to turn himself in --- on camera he says exactly that - and two more people intent on killing him attack him.

So we have at least a dozen left-wing people rioting.... peppered with convicted violent felons .... they attack a dude, unprovoked.... and since he successfully defended himself it counts as "right wing violence"?

And people driving down a public street... who are having their cars attacked by "protesters" who don't seem to agree that other people are allowed to protest... use pepper spray (and other less defensible means) to keep people off their vehicles are "right wing violence"?

I think you know just how insanely desperate that sounds.

They tried to lock police in a police station and set them on fire in Portland, for crying out loud. A mob chased down someone they believed to be a Trump supporter and one dude executed him. And dozens of people you've never heard of have been murdered for not being sufficiently down with the protest, including a black former cop who was protecting a store... executed, gun to the head style.

Hell, even reporting on what the "protesters" are doing is enough to get you assaulted.

But yeah, let's pretend like the real worry is this powder keg of right wing violence. If only there was nobody to resist the left wing violence, then everything would be just fine!

[Tony]

Nobody asked they kid to bring his superhuman security skills from out of state to protect their business oh my god.

It’s one thing to defend every revolting brain spasm of Donald Trump’s, it’s another to parrot the lawyer of a white supremacist murderer.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Nobody asked they kid to bring his superhuman security skills from out of state to protect their business oh my god.

Huh, I thought borders were just imaginary lines on a map.

It’s one thing to defend every revolting brain spasm of Donald Trump’s, it’s another to parrot the lawyer of a white supremacist murderer.

Sorry he shot the dick off of one of your fellow child molesters, but hey, I'd be embarrassed, too, if my fellow tankies got surgically limited by a pudgy 17-year-old who was in full retreat mode the entire time.

[Tony]

You’re not sorry.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

True, no one should ever be sorry that a child-molesting piece of shit got his dick shot off.

[soldiermedic76]

Is everyone who disagrees with you automatically a white supremacists? Do you have proof he is a white supremacists or are you just launching attacks based upon zero evidence?

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

To be fair, hicklibs are quite adept at showing why white supremacy is a joke.

[Tony]

You are a Russian. I suppose they come in white supremacist flavors too, but you are just collecting a paybeet.

[Tony]

Sorry I confused you with LC. You are not a Russian. You are unfortunately an ally of Nazis. I don’t think you get to support Trump without having to answer for all the Nazis who support him and whom he supports.

[masculistman]

You're a joke and a dirty one at that.

[Tony]

Do you think having Nazis on your side might be some hint about the value of your ideas?

[Red Tony]

Richard Spencer (white supremacist) endorsed Biden, Past Me.

Do you think that might be some hint about the value of your candidate?

[darkflame]

Dude, in all seriousness, get help, see a psychiatrist. You have some paranoid delusions going on that are at total odds with reality. Your ranting about non-existent nazis here is making Alex Jones look sane.

[loveconstitution1789]

I really apologize for posting which triggered the tony bot to follow me around.

Goes tp show how much of a threat the commies at unreason view me.

[Just thinkin aloud]

Tony is racist...against white people.

[Cyto]

That's a brilliant rejoinder....

Except that it is a lie. A lie that you could have realized wouldn't fly if you read what you responded to.

The owner of the business in question asked him to bring his superhuman security skills.

And he didn't bring them from "out of state".. he brought them from the suburbs of the city.... the one he commutes to work in on a daily basis. Cities on state lines can be confusing, I know.

This is how you know someone doesn't actually understand any of the issues at play and is simply shitposting for "team". Hand the Tony handle back to one of the smarter shills. You really are failing hard.

[Baxter Nolan]

He's a pretty terrible white supremacist murderer given he killed 2 white people and injured another.

[darkflame]

hell, last I heard they think the first guy who died might actually have accidentally been killed by one of the lefties who were shooting at Kyle.

[John C. Randolph]

Tony, smearing an innocent kid who defended himself against lefturds who were trying to kill him is even lower than I thought you would ever go. You're scum.

-jcr

[Hank Ferrous]

'Nobody asked they kid to bring his superhuman security skills from out of state to protect their business oh my god'

This has nothing to do with the facts. As for white supremacist and murderer, what are you on about, other than your bias shifting into bigotry? You can see what occurred on video, but that might make you question your kneejerk in-group beliefs, and you may decide to 'see' what you believe.

[Mickey Rat]

Apparently his employer did, and Rittenhouse worked in Kenosha. Out of State for him was commuting to work.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

Nobody asked they kid to bring his superhuman security skills from out of state to protect their business oh my god.

Nobody asked you to incessantly spout your ignorant clap-trap online, and yet...here you are.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Keep in mind this disingenuous fuck actually claimed that the guy who got his bicep turned into hamburger wasn't carrying a gun, then claimed that it was only "fuzzy photos", then tried to change the subject.

[Cyto]

Look, dude only told his best buddy that he was about to empty the entire clip into the kid. But definitely not self defense...

[The White Knight]

"this disingenuous fuck"

Is that a reference to me, because I never said that the guy who was wounded wasn't carrying a gun. You may have a false memory of my saying that, but I didn't.

And I said they were shaky videos with poor sound.

And I don't know what you're talking about with "tried to change the subject".

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Stop lying.

[The White Knight]

Kyle Rittenhouse is squarely an example of right-wing violence. He is right-wing (he was seen in the front row of a Trump rally), and he was violent (he killed two people).

[Commenter_XY]

A jury will decide whether or not Kyle Rittenhouse is guilty of anything other than bad judgment and self-defense.

[The White Knight]

Even if it was self-defense, it was violence. I was asked for an example of right-wing violence.

[Mickey Rat]

There is a quite from William F. Buckley - "You have one man who pushes a little old lady in front of a bus. You have another man who pushes a little old lady out from in front of a bus. It does not do to call both men the sort who push around little old ladies."

[OneSimpleLesson]

tight.

[Isaac Bartram]

So, he was just supposed to stand there while the "mostly peaceful protesters" loved him to death, was he?

[Nardz]

"Most notably Kyle Rittenhouse killing two people, and severely wounding another."
The 17 year old kid who was cleaning graffiti, asked to watch over a guy's car lot and was armed for self-defense, then tried to put out a fire for which he was chased and cornered by an adult child molester, then again chased and attacked by multiple assailants, one of whom was shot trying to take Kyle's gun and the other who was shot when he leveled his own gun at Kyle?

"Steven Carrillo killing a Santa Cruz County sheriff."
What evidence is there that he was "right wing". So far as I know, it's claimed he's a Boogaloo Boy. And you know why you don't hear about them anymore? Because it turns out they're blmantifa allied.

"The caravan driving through Portland shooting pepper spray at people."
Ok, that happened. They only shot (with paint balls) people who were attacking and trying to block their cars, but sure. Not good. Oh, later that night a 100% blmantifa hit squad murdered someone simply for being a Proud Boy/Trump supporter. Not at all self defense. Straight up stalked and murdered him.

"On top of that, there’s the potential violence, sitting there like a powder keg, that could be touched off. Militia roaming around with weapons."
I'm just gonna leave that one here.

You are utterly pathetic, white knight.

[The White Knight]

"So far as I know, it’s claimed he’s a Boogaloo Boy. And you know why you don’t hear about them anymore? Because it turns out they’re blmantifa allied."

Baloney. They are right-wing.

[darkflame]

educate yourself before making stupid comments, they are all across the political spectrum, with most not having a side because they're disgusted by all the political parties. If they're all so white wing, why do you have multiple videos showing Boog bois coming out to support BLM and antifa?

[The White Knight]

Dissembling

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Yes, you do that frequently.

[Hank Ferrous]

No, they are another meme/hoax group to fuck with the normies.

[JoeB]

Rittenhouse was defending himself. He was trying to leave. He had a weapon. This is a libertarian website, fyi, so I'm wondering how you feel about his right to defend himself with his weapon. Can't wait for the answer. P.S. There's always HuffPo.

[Nardz]

What right wing violence?
Seriously.
Point it out.

BTW - Proud Boys had a rally in a Portland park Saturday. Antifa made noise about showing up, but didn't.
No violence.
No arson, or any other kind of destruction.
And the leader of the group? Enrique Tarrio

[Cyto]

Look, I watch CNN. And if that had happened, they would have covered it. So clearly, that didn't happen.

[loveconstitution1789]

Nazis are socialists so democrats dictate what the nazi strategy is.

[The White Knight]

Neo-nazis are right wing.

[masculistman]

When will Biden denounce antifa violence? If he does he will be in disagreement with his running mate, Kamel Harris.

[JoeB]

Hey, pronounce that name correctly, that's Kameltoe Harris!

[Rhombus of Terror]

As I recall, Trump said "stand down, stand by."

An honest person would see that as him trying to reinforce the point of standing by, but being inarticulate in the moment.

The leftists will see it as him ordering his Sturmtruppen to be ready for their next orders...

[SQRLSY One]

An honest AND benevolent POTUS would clarify his or her remarks, to spell out that he or she does NOT welcome private, non-governmental violence, NAZI Brown-Shirts-style! Der TrumfenFuhrer could issue some VERY welcome clarifying remarks here, but He doesn't! Gee, I wonder why? Could it be that He LIKES trouble, and ANY trouble that centers the attentions on HIM?

This isn't helping the stock market, or your 401K!

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/30/investing/premarket-stocks-trading/index.html
The presidential debate confirmed Wall Street's worst fears

According to right-wing nut-jobs, of course, CNN doesn't fall for EVERY lie from The Donald, so they MUST be Marxist!

[Rhombus of Terror]

And Biden and the entire left could start disavowing the racist BLMers and communist Antifa members who are committing violence, stealing, burning, and in at least one case HUNTING a man because of his skin color and political beliefs. But they don't, they do the EXACT same thing they berated Trump doing by denouncing "all violence," but never call out THEIR extremists by name who are ACTUALLY destroying things and murdering people...Gee, I wonder why...

[JoeB]

Umm...Dow is up 300+.

[Azathoth!!]

he could issue a statement or a tweet tomorrow clearly denouncing right-wing violence; doubt he will.

Why? It's be the same as saying that he's going to act to do something about blizzards in July.

Something that, technically, CAN happen, but so rare that there's no need to have a cabinet post dedicated to it.

[Tony]

Is Trump’s own FBI dumber than Trump? Biden was quoting the FBI, which he explained.

You are dumb and you have been lied to about Antifa and who are the real terrorists. Rightwingers have committed 75% of the domestic terrorism since 2002.

And you’re defending Nazis.

[Cyto]

Yes.... right.... they classified the Orlando night club shooting "right wing". So... grain of salt, Ok?

[Tony]

Did anyone give you permission to be distinguished from rightwing Muslim fundamentalists? The only difference between your people and them is yours have killed more Americans.

[soldiermedic76]

9/11 didn't happen?

[Tony]

White terrorists have still killed more if you want to go back to the old days. I don’t know why you’d object so much to simple facts. Are you a white terrorist sympathizer?

[JoeB]

You mean those old racist white Democrat terrorists?

[loveconstitution1789]

Sorry guys, The more I post here lately, the more Commie Tony comes around.

Its almost like unreason bots follow my dissenting views.

[Red Tony]

Yes...yes, it's totally because you're being stalked and not just coincidental.

Never change, loveprostitution.

[loveconstitution1789]

I mean that was some quick evidence of fact right there.

[JoeB]

Just because you're paranoid...

[CE]

Trump should have condemned white supremacists and said racism has no place in America, then reminded Chris Wallace that militias are protected by the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms and the First Amendment right to peaceably assemble, and they wouldn't have any reason to intervene if Democrat governors and mayors would do their jobs and maintain order in their cities.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

The law, in its majesty, prohibits both puny disorganized violent gangs and large organized violent gangs from burning occupied buildings.

[Cyto]

If a building burns in the city and there's no prosecutor to prosecute the arsonist... is there really an arson?

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

Must be like British murder stats, where only convictions count as murder. Find a body with a dozen bullet holes, decapitated, hands cut off to prevent identification .... no trial, no conviction, nope: not a murder.

Or so I've read a few times.

[loveconstitution1789]

Stabbing deaths are not as dangerous as shooting murders like the USA has either.

Guns bad.

[NOYB2]

The Proud Boys are not white supremacists. Why should Trump denounce something that simply isn’t true?

On the other hand, BLM and Antifa are self-declared Marxists/communists.

[Tony]

Who you trying to convince dude.

[NOYB2]

I’m just fact checking Reason.

Do you have a problem with facts, Tony?

[Tony]

I have a problem with Nazis.

[soldiermedic76]

But proud boys is a multi ethnic nationalist organization that doesn't a spouse white supremacy and denounces Nazis? So which Nazis are you denouncing?

[NOYB2]

Oh, you certainly do, Tony: like any socialist/communist, your problem with Nazis is that your ideology and theirs are nearly indistinguishable.

[Tony]

I see. You don’t know the difference between communists and the people whose first targets for genocide were communists, and you seem to think you’re fit to characterize my political beliefs.

[RabbitHead]

Same reason you hate them so much. Because you and they are collectivist rivals.

It's like highlander. There can only be one ideology that dehumanizes and subjugates individual autonomy.

We'd be happy if you would just kill each other off, but being subjugated, or viewed as collateral damage is starting to piss us off.

[mad.casual]

He didn't refute a straightforward assertion. Clearly cut from the same cloth as Trump. To the point that I'm pretty sure I've never seen Tony and Trump in the same room at the same time.

[loveconstitution1789]

Its funy how Tony and the democrat party still don't understand how they confirm the bias and lies.

Democrats are liars who are pathologically unable to distinguish truth from lie.

[AmosArch]

All the Proud Boys do is defend people and places against ANTIFA. The criminal media of course tries to paint them as a rightwing version of ANTIFA while ignoring the real one.

[Tony]

This is America. We kill Nazis.

[loveconstitution1789]

Tony, we will let you nazis leave peacefully before civil war2.0

After democrats started civil war 2.0 ...again.... it might not be peaceful this time.

[NOYB2]

Socialists have a 70 year history of denouncing conservatives, capitalists, free market liberals as “Nazis”.

So what you are really saying is that that you think that anybody who isn’t a socialist should be killed.

That may be what you want to turn America into; we are fortunately not there yet.

[Tony]

I’m talking about literal Nazis dude.

[soldiermedic76]

Where? Which literal Nazis? The only Nazis are the ones in your head.

[Tony]

The ones who your country beat down so handily back when you were a respected world power.

[NOYB2]

Correct, Tony: socialists/communists have a 70 year history of denouncing conservatives, capitalists, and free market liberals as “literal Nazis”. That was one of the main themes of East European communist propaganda. You’re right in line with them.

There are no “literal Nazis” in the US. None. They are all dead. There are some neo-Nazis, disaffected youth who like to use Nazi symbols to shock and rebel.

The Proud Boys, Patriot Prayer, and whatever else those groups are called are neither literal Nazi groups nor neo-Nazi groups.

Bernie Sanders and Kamala Harris are far closer to literal Nazi ideology than any of those groups, as you can easily see when you compare their political programs to the political program of the NSDAP.

[loveconstitution1789]

Yup. The last literal nazi was that ukranian prison guard deported and tried in socialist Germany for war crimes.

But soros gets off scot free for assisting nazis.

[Tony]

I’m not gonna distinguish between neo-Nazis and Nazis. I don’t want to waste time typing hyphens.

Proud Boys are a white supremacist organization with the tiniest fig leaf of a PR strategy. Just enough to fool you, I guess.

[John C. Randolph]

You snotty little liar.

-jcr

[darkflame]

Proud boys aren't the ones trying to burn down apartment buildings and assaulting the gays in the street, you fucking muppet. That's your friends doing that, on camera, for all the world to see.

[loveconstitution1789]

Tony doesnt need citations.

What he says are lies and we all know it.

[NOYB2]

And we’re not going to distinguish between Nazis, neo-Nazis, socialists, and whatever you are within that spectrum, Tony: you are all totalitarian, racist trash.

[Mickey Rat]

No, you are not. Actual Nazis are vanishingly scarce in the U.S.

[loveconstitution1789]

Trump is dangerous because he directly represents that America is turning away fro socialism.

Trump dominated Biden when all biden could do is deny deny deny.it was aerfect Trump strategy to goad Biden into defending his drug addled son who in fact did get a dishonorable discharge for cocaine from the navy.

Im a drugs should be legal guy but domt take an oath and then fuck over enlisted folks by being a drug addict who cant say no for 4 years of sevice.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Trump is dangerous because he directly represents that America is turning away fro socialism.

What? No he doesn't. He's a throwback to the old-line 70s/80s-era Democrats, before they were taken over entirely by the New Left after the Clintons took over.

[loveconstitution1789]

70s democrats were still socialist. 80s democrats were socialists.

70s democrats barely won with carter. They only won because nixon was bad and ford pardoned nixon.

Btw: obama okayed a spying operation of political opponent Trump that would have given Nixon a raging hardon.

[loveconstitution1789]

Democrats were gunning for commies in the USSR to win against the USA.

[Cyto]

BTW, Nixon was not even a rounding error on Obama.

I wonder if we will ever come to grips with that as a nation. We've been very keen to ignore it so far.

[loveconstitution1789]

Trump mentioned the attempted coup on national TV.

That is a big deal.

[SQRLSY One]

"Trump is dangerous because he directly represents that America is turning away fro (sic: from) socialism."

Because of Trump's stupid trade wars, we are turning FAR more, now, into having farmers be, not independent, hard-working producers, but recipients of Government Almighty goodies! THIS is "turning away from socialism"?

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

LOL--bitch, you aren't killing anything other than another fridge full of box wine.

[Tony]

I would give my left tit for a fridge full of box wine right now.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Just ask a Nazi for one, I'm sure they'll share.

[loveconstitution1789]

I plan to make Lefty tear wine for mowvember. Can I send you some?

[Tony]

You can’t afford wine.

[loveconstitution1789]

You cant afford to lose that much moisture.

Anal takes moisture.

[ravenshrike]

Skokie, Illinois begs to disagree.

[tgrondo]

Was anyone else annoyed with Chris Wallace...?
His questions were......TOO FUCKING LONG..!
We don't need a long set up, Chris.....!!!! We, The American People, didn't tune in to hear you yak......
Keep the questions short, please.

[loveconstitution1789]

single question and go...

Instead we got loaded questions with 10 subparts.

Trump has to have a healthcare plan....fucking democrats.

[Tony]

Even the Nazis are like jeez man you can condemn us if you need to.

[loveconstitution1789]

Tony, you nazis never accept being condemned for the murderous thugs that you are.

100 million people murdered by socialists in the 20th century and you still keep trying to take over.

[Tony]

Do they pay you in shots of vodka or is it just the beets?

[loveconstitution1789]

You poor lefty. All your old rubles are worthless.

[Cyto]

You do know that Nazis and Commies hate each other, right?

[NOYB2]

Nazis and commies hate each other because they are so similar and are recruiting from the same pool of hopeless, ignorant people (like Tony).

[Tony]

Yes you guys hate commies just like your intellectual brethren and for the same reasons. No, it’s not news to me.

[NOYB2]

Tony: we hate both commies and fascists because they are basically interchangeable; they are both totalitarian, violent anti-capitalists.

[Tony]

You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about and it’s embarrassing.

[NOYB2]

Tony, unlike your fat, lazy, ignorant American ass, my family and I suffered through fascism and socialism. I know exactly what I’m talking about.

And for anybody who is confused about who on the US spectrum is politically closest to the Nazis, a simple look at the NSDAP 25 Point Program should clear that right up. For many of the points, you can’t even tell whether they come from the Democrat platform or from the NSDAP platform.

[Tony]

Both fascism and socialism? You must be well traveled in shitholes.

If Antifa’s socialists and Trump’s fascists are the same, why are they fighting?

[loveconstitution1789]

They dont fight or they would all be dead.

You know how many commies made it out of National socialist germany in 1945. Very few of the millions that started.

[Tony]

I can’t tell if you’re giving props to the Nazis for killing all the communists.

[NOYB2]

Both fascism and socialism? You must be well traveled in shitholes.

Quite right: I’m an immigrant. And I don’t want the US to turn into the kind of shithole that I came from.

If Antifa’s socialists and Trump’s fascists are the same, why are they fighting?

This confuses you because you misunderstand what Antifa is. Antifa consists of angry, violent, disaffected youths with generally anti-capitalist views that span both socialism and fascism. That’s why Antifa members hate and attack anybody who supports Trump.

[Tony]

So Antifa... has fascists.

Well the young often do have identity issues.

[NOYB2]

Antifa members obviously don’t identify as fascists, but ideologically, they are close to socialism/fascism.

More importantly, the people they attack are usually not fascists.

[Rhombus of Terror]

Why are the Sunni's and Shiites fighting, Tony?

[loveconstitution1789]

Tony still tries to lie that fascism and socialism are that different.

In his world freedom loving germans really had a chance agains the commie, socialist, fascist triad of death in 1930s germany.

[Tony]

You guys have got to stop being so monumentally uninformed if you’re going to talk about this stuff.

[loveconstitution1789]

Tony and his national socialist would know about black uniforms.

Hes hugo boss about it.

[loveconstitution1789]

Its official, Tony does not hate absolute state control of property and individuals with murder as the state task of the day.

[NOYB2]

You should know, Tony, given that you are Nazi-adjacent.

[Tony]

The president told Nazis to intimidate voters.

[NOYB2]

Yeah, typical for socialists/fascists, you lie.

[Tony]

Well he asked someone to intimidate voters (a felony in all states), and then told the Nazis to stand by. After repeatedly refusing to say under what circumstances he’d concede the election.

But Trump deserves the benefit of the doubt from me because... I fuck my cousin? No... I get high on antifreeze? I... am a Nazi who’s not allowed to masturbate? Nope can’t find a reason I owe him that.

[loveconstitution1789]

Lefty citations always fall off.

[Tony]

You want me to provide a citation that you fuck your cousin?

[loveconstitution1789]

Tony is such a sad case. He loses his mind every time he posts here yet keeps coming back to post nonsense.

[OneSimpleLesson]

He's mixing up the redneck metaphors and the russian troll metaphors.

[Cyto]

You do know that poll watchers are an actual thing, right? Like, as in, it is a big part of having a democracy?

BTW, the only time I remember poll watchers making the news was when Cythia McKinney's voter bus showed up in Stone Mountain about 15 minutes after the polls closed. They locked the Republican poll watcher in the closet for about a half hour before they left. Video by WSB TV 2 showed the same busload of people entering 3 different polling places.

No investigation was launched. No charges filed on the false imprisonment.

So that's one of those "election fraud" things that actually doesn't exist... even though I watched it happening live on TV.

[Tony]

Sounds hilarious.

Trump looks like he’s be hilarious too, but he just can’t help but recruit Nazis to intimidate voters. Womp womp.

[loveconstitution1789]

Poor Tony.

Trump will be reelected.

[loveconstitution1789]

Poor tony. He still thought Hillary won election 2016 and she was rallying her nazi supporters to harvest ballots and intimidate Americans who do t want their cities on fire.

[loveconstitution1789]

Poor Scotty. neo nazis are nazis and nazis are socialists.

[loveconstitution1789]

Left wing.

[Nardz]

Absolutely disgusting that Shackford/Reason lie that the Proud Boys are white supremacists.

But ok.

Reason/Shackford are child molestation enthusiasts.

Spread the word!

[masculistman]

Scott Shackleford-MSNBC employee of the minute. Where did you get your talking points from? The New York Times? The Atlantic? Where?

[loveconstitution1789]

Yes.

[Ben of Houston]

Look, I don't like the Proud Boys. They have a tendency to cause more problems than they solve.

However, I've never seen a "white supremacist" group have "anti-racism" as one of its core tenets. Not one spot on their website says anything about requirement to be white. Their news section repeatedly refers to "Chairman Enrique Tarrio".
https://proudboysusa.com/

Sorry, but trying to frame the proud boys as White Supremacists defies logic and reason. It's a plain, ludicrous, counterfactual statement. When your opening premise is absurdly false on its face, why should I read the rest of your article?

[Tony]

“They’re not white supremacists, it’s just that white genocide is real!”

[NOYB2]

Tony, the only major political group that I know of that obsesses about the fact that whites are becoming a minority in the US is... the Democrats.

As far as I can tell, Proud Boys doesn’t care about whether you’re white, black, green, or blue.

[Old Engineer]

I don't know what happened at the debate after the first 15 minutes. We were playing a drinking game where we had to take a drink every time either Trump or Biden lied. 24 double bourbons later...

[darkflame]

damn man, you had to know going in that would have been a suicide pact. How many people died from that game?

[GroundTruth]

Rather than worry about what might happen in the future, Trump is reporting who IS doing the rioting and looting now: leftists of all stripes. Should he have condemned all violence, yes. But it is NOT ProudBoys or the KKK or KoC that is burning down Portland and Seattle, it is Marxist "Antifa" scum.

[crufus]

Donald Trump cheated on his wives, defrauded contractors, vendors, investors, creditors, and customers, bankrupted multiple businesses, looted a children's charity, cheated on his taxes, accepted bribes, ran up enormous debts, lied about his income and net worth, and lied about a deadly disease resulting in the deaths of thousands.

[SQRLSY One]

But, always look on the bright side of life! He DOES have SOME love in His Heart, Bless Him! He LOVES Leona! See below!

Mash Letter from The Donald to Leona Helmsley

Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
Won’t you come here,
And join My Crew?
Won’t you please join My Quest?
The honest taxpayers, to molest?
I like to collect babes, as if they were Cocker Spaniels,
You’d look quite nice, right next to Stormy Daniels!
You’d be quite sexy, in My YUUGE harem,
With my BIGLY contributors, I like to share ‘em!
“Taxes are for the little people”
For a campaign slogan, it sounds GREAT!
Won’t you help Me fool the greedy sheeple?
To their suffering, you and I, we could masturbate!
Brad Parscale, My old campaign pal,
Wants to kill himself, what killer style!
Won’t you stay with Me a while,
And be My campaign gal?

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Still better than any Democrat, which is rather sad.

[Paulpemb]

"Are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia groups to say they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of the cities as we saw in Kenosha and as we've seen in Portland?"

Translation: "Will you tell people to stand back and let my supporters burn down their homes and businesses without any resistance?"

[RabbitHead]

Exactly. Please do not add to the violence.

Your Socialist overlords, know best how much violence is necessary and how it should be applied.

[Michael Ejercito]

The Proud Boys are chaired by Enrique Tarrio.
Looks as white as Barack Obama.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Oh please. Scott. Just stop.

PB aren't 'white nationalists'.

And they sure as hell ain't burning down cities.

This from a publication that insisted on making a distinction between 'peaceful protestors' and violent thugs yet does't do the same here for PB.

This is what Reason singles out from last night?

What the fuck do you want from Trump? He's made it clear where he stands and quite frankly it's the correct stance.

[Rufus The Monocled]

If you're gonna call them that the least you can do is INTERVIEW them. Gavin has repeatedly explained who they are and is pretty damn honest about it. They aren't ALL WHITE.

I'm so tired of all these false accusations.

Stop being sophomoric. Put on your pants and go investigate them.

[BillyG]

Trump Pushed To Condemn White Nationalist Proud Boys

Every time I hear someone call a group "White Nationalist" or pretty much anything similar, my first thought is to actually check out what I think the group is. Your opinion on what a group is does not necessarily match my own or that of most people. The Boy Scouts of America & the Catholic Church has been called a Hate Group before. So no, I won't take anyone's word for what they call an organization.

[John Rohan]

How many times do we need to fact check this myth? Trump has condemned white supremacists on multiple occasions, including in the "fine people on both sides" speech!!

He missed a golden opportunity to remind Biden of that last night (Chris Wallace certainly knew that too, but didn't mention it either)

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/trump-has-condemned-white-supremacists/

[Sometimes Bad Is Bad]

Ok you guys obviously don't read much. Every democrat and left liberal progtard thinks anyone who doesn't vote with them is a white supremacist, white nationalist, fascist, racist take your pick.

Even the black and hispanic people who vote for Trump are one of the above list. That is how pathetic and stupid the left is and now always will be.

[loveconstitution1789]

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[Libby Terry-Ann]

I believe Trump just misspoke and meant to say stand back and stand DOWN, not stand by. But leftists including Reason have taken it and run with it.

[GroundTruth]

Plausible.

Trump needs to think with his mouth closed and then choose his words with care. It's a pitched battle against the media, but his case would be helped if he were to stop providing stones for them to throw back at him.

[JDS1]

Of course the comment section is full of racist POS trying to minimize the fascist threat posed by this President. What would one expect when Reason has been describing worry about Trump's endorsements of violence as "Trump Derangement Syndrome"?

[Árboles de la Barranca]

The proud boys seem more like opposition to WhiteAntifa's fascist-like looting, rape, arson, and murder carried out openly in some cities under the watch of Biden-supporting local authorities.

White neo-progressives' health is watching black neighborhoods burn.

[Agammamon]

What about Harris' endorsement of violence?

[Agammamon]

Who demanded that Biden disavow Antifa?

[smalleyd]

Reason used to be a place with thoughtful pieces. They have clearly gotten onboard the MSM position that if you don't sufficiently hate whitey, then you are racist. In this case, Shackford doesn't even bother with such niceties like proving the Proud Boys are racist. It's just a foregone conclusion for this cabal.

Gavin Mc used to fly in their orbit (on Red Eye and such) and now they've cut bait because it's convenient. They are cowards. If Reason keeps going in this direction, less of the regulars will read them. And since they are just a pro-gun Vox, I doubt they'll have much of an audience.

[Sheldonius Rex]

Who here is going to lie and say that the Proud Boys are racist?

[Earthfarmer]

Proud Boys are Western Chauvinists. That's all.

[Tony]

So they're not racists they just think all nonwhite countries deserve to be colonized?

[Sea Bass]

I thought I clicked on Reason, a famous limited government conservative website, but instead got CNN. What happened?

[Austrian Anarchy]

Seems like Weigel didn't completely leave.

[Austrian Anarchy]

But Bad Orange Man's response to condemning white supremacists was "Sure", which appears to be an answer in the affirmative.

And there is that KKK are terrorists executive order.

Plus all the other times he condemned white nationalists.

Who the Hell am I supposed to believe, you people or Ben Shapiro and the actual videos?

[jdgalt1]

I hope this author is successfully sued for repeating the lie that the Proud Boys are white nationalists. By now everybody knows better.

[Chipper Morning Wood--------------------------------------------------------------------------]

The FBI disagrees with you

[CE]

why not just claim that they're an idea and not an organization, as Biden did for Antifa?

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Hey, Geiger Goldstaedt, you disaffected bigot . . .

Open wider. Better Americans are not done shoving progress down your whiny, impotent throat . . . not nearly.

And be nicer, or your betters might start positioning that progress sideways before shoving, just for the sport of it.

Carry on, clinger. So far as you are permitted to, anyway.

[buybuydandavis]

Reason's race-baiting false witness is a sin and malignant societal cancer.

They are scum.

[John C. Randolph]

Yep, stupid smear is stupid. Lefturds call anyone who opposes the SJW party line a "racist" or a "white supremacist."

-jcr

[Brett Bellmore]

"Why lead with something so demonstrably untrue?"

Well, duh. Because Trump would deny it.

[Johnny Lawrence]

They also described them as “white supremacists,” not “white nationalists.” Shackford should get it right.

Perhaps I’m picking nits here, but it seemed to me the problem was how the question was phrased. “Will you condemn white supremacists *and* militia groups?” Then those two things were immediately conflated—I’m not sure they are co-extensive.

It’s like asking: “Will you condemn Terrorists and Muslims”?

Well, I’ll condemn the first. But not the second group as a whole—even if some portion of Muslims may be terrorists.

It was a poor question, likely by design—and Trump side-stepped it.

[Gasman]

"proud boys" sounds like what the gay arm of an lgbt group might call themselves. which color of the rainbow do they use on their flag?

[John]

The FBI thought Trump was working for Putin. How is that working out?

[soldiermedic76]

The proud Boys have members of all races.

[Sevo]

OMG! A Guardian link! Who other than the shitbag CMW could question that?
Fuck off, lefty shit,

[tgrondo]

The FBI couldn't find their ass with both hands......

[Ben of Houston]

Given that they welcome people of color into their group and have zero white nationalist causes.

I will take a person's word for it whether they are white nationalist. It's not exactly a cause that's easy to stumble into

[masculistman]

The FBI? You mean the same FBI that broke the law by framing General Flynn and tried a coup to depose President Trump. That FBI? Is that the FBI you are referring to?

[Azathoth!!]

The FBI disagrees with you

And they're wrong. Obviously, demonstrably wrong.

The Proud Boys are not all white (I think the current 'leader' is black) and they're not all from the same nation.

They're 'western chauvinists'. Proud of Western Civilization.

[Sevo]

"Carry on, clinger. So far as you are permitted to, anyway."
Clinger asshole bigots noted for asshole bigotry, asshole bigot.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

What are you going to do, burn down more of your own cities?

[NOYB2]

Wow, Kirkland, you’re even more homophobic than Biden and Obama!

[buybuydandavis]

Kirkland does a public service in letting the Leftist inside voice out.

You can never read 1984 Part 3, Chapter 3 enough. O'Brien explains the Modern Left.
http://www.george-orwell.org/1984/19.html

The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it.
Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?'
...
But always -- do not forget this, Winston -- always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face -- forever.

[Chipper Morning Wood--------------------------------------------------------------------------]

Why would a white nationalist organization deny being a white nationalist organization?

I think you know why.

[Chipper Morning Wood--------------------------------------------------------------------------]

The Guardian is a respected news source, Breitbart servitor.

[Cyto]

Actually, I don't think they even respect it in Britain.

But then, they have a much more vibrant tabloid environment than we do.

[Red Tony]

...really?

...I mean, really?

Is it respected in the same way that CNN is respected? In that prior to the internet era, it wasn't obvious that they were stirring up shit in the way that the Sun (Britain) or the NY Post (U.S.) were, but since then it's become obvious that they're incredibly full of shit?

Because they're SERIOUSLY full of shit.

[darkflame]

hahaha, no it isn't you hack.

[Hank Ferrous]

It is an opinion mill, like MSNBC and CNN, with the same sociopolitical leanings.

[Roberta]

Because that's an evasion, which Biden obviously took deliberately.

[squid_hunt]

Anyone who shrieks about "Trump didn't disavow white nationalists" while cities are burning from communists is not a serious journalist.

[Nardz]

Yea, this should be entertaining

[Nardz]

Forests too.
Oh, but the FBI eunuch so loves says "nothing to see here"

[Tony]

Bbbut Antifa!

Antifa being people who show up to protest when Nazis appear, because they’re fucking Nazis.

Which side are you on?

[Tony]

I thought you people’s entire political movement is about how unfair it is you can’t be rude to minorities anymore.

[Nardz]

Apparently, any dissent from full approval of leftist mob violence counts as right wing.
Ok by me.
Not great for the left.

[The White Knight]

Rittenhouse was spotted at the front row of a Trump rally, he was hanging out with militia. That's right-wing.

[loveconstitution1789]

No reasonable prosecutor....

[masculistman]

And a roadmap.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Not yours.

[Baxter Nolan]

"Antifa" has little to do with anti-facism. They're some combination of anarchists and communists (they call each other "comrade" for fucks sake) who chose a convenient name that makes it impossible for people who lack critical thinking skills to oppose.

[Brett Bellmore]

"Antifa being people who show up to protest when Nazis appear, because they’re fucking Nazis."

No, Anitfa show up when people they disagree with appear, and Antifa claims that everybody who disagrees with them is a fucking Nazi.

Lately they just appear when they're in a mood to throw Molotov cocktails.

[JoeB]

Do you really believe that? That wherever Antifa shows up, it's because Nazis are there already? Where? Seriously, that's some ffed up delusional cogitation there.

[loveconstitution1789]

More purchases of Georgia wood.

We just plant more trees harvest in 30 years

[loveconstitution1789]

Arent white Americans minority now?

[Hank Ferrous]

That seems to be your problem, assumptions. Your political movement is convinced minorities belong to them. Freed by Emancipation Proclamation, only to find they are still considered chattel by Kirkland, Tony, Sarcastr0, The White Knight, Strazele, et al.

[NOYB2]

That's your problem, Tony: you're ignorant.

For starters, I'm not part of any political movement (unless being a former a Democrat is a movement).

[Tony]

Then I’m telling you what you didn’t hear. Maybe you were taking a piss break.

[Tony]

I’m just a simple libertarian who doesn’t give politicians the benefit of the doubt, especially when they are known big fat liars and they have Nazis on staff and then they ask Nazis to physically intimidate voters.

[Tony]

Someone says Nazis showed up, you say Fuck! Nazis! Not bbbut whatabout Antifa??

[loveconstitution1789]

Tony knoes nazis, socialists, antifa...its all the smae.

[masculistman]

I like the New York Post.

[loveconstitution1789]

Poor tony going into gibberish mode like Joe Biden.

The more socialism gets rejected by americans, the more that Lefty go berish mode comes out.

Its why Trump is the best president ever. Lefties out themselves as lunatics.

[Tony]

There is no socialist on the ballot. Why do you need to lie so much if Trump is so great?

[Tony]

You tell me what telling Nazis to stand back and stand by means. I’m willing to learn what anti-Nazi message was encoded in that statement when “I condemn them” might have sufficed.

[Cyto]

What Nazis are you talking about?

[Tony]

Fine, the other violent white supremacist thugs Trump was talking to.

[Tony]

If you guys can call socialists Nazis I can call Nazis Nazis.

[NOYB2]

Tony, according to their web site, Proud Boys just believe that traditional Western culture is superior to other cultures. Ideologically, that makes them simple conservatives.

If you have any evidence that Proud Boys represent any other beliefs, please provide it.

[Tony]

Just look at their Wikipedia page dude and at least have the dignity not to pretend that you don’t know what they mean by western culture.

[loveconstitution1789]

Poor Tony.

[NOYB2]

Wikipedia is not a reliable source of information; political articles have been hijacked by leftists like you. Even Wikipedia provides no evidence that the Proud Boys are “white supremacist”, however.

If you believe that “western culture” stands for “white people” then you are the white supremacist and racist, Tony.

[OneSimpleLesson]

Wikipedia states:
"Officially, the group rejects white supremacy... the FBI had classified the Proud Boys as an extremist group with ties to white nationalism... white supremacist Jason Kessler had joined the Proud Boys some time before organizing the [Unite the Right Rally]. McInnes said he had kicked Kessler out after his views on race had become clear..."
Also, "In July 2018, the group had 160 members and up to 300 pending applicants"
This is your biggest boogeyman? Even Wikipedia taking cues from whatever news source it deems fit, doesn't call them neo-nazi or white supremacist.

[Tony]

Had no idea that whether he Proud Boys were white supremacists was controversial.

Maybe you’re just so much of a dupe that you buy their thin veneer of PR?

[OneSimpleLesson]

Well Tony, We've cited sources including wikipedia and Proudboys own website stating they are not. Feel free to share your own citations if you've seen something we haven't.

If you can't make the distinction between nazis, white supremacists and white nationalists that's on you.

[Tony]

That if Reason magazine, Wikipedia, and I agree that the Proud Boys are white supremacists, and you’re defending the honor of the Proud Boys, you should make better life choices.

[Red Tony]

True, but the NYP (and the Sun) assumes by its writing that its readers are lower-middle class and not THAT smart. The WPost assumes that its readers are middle-class to upper-middle class and think they're smart.

[Tony]

It’s an argument for why you should do better at living. What’s flawed about it?

I’m willing to learn, but not to the point where I find it reasonable to defend the honor of the Proud Boys. Grown men who aren’t allowed to masturbate is no joke.

[Tony]

Gonna assume that’s not allowed either but I wouldn’t want to unfairly characterize white supremacists.

[OneSimpleLesson]

Got 'im!

[Old Engineer]

WaPo and the NY Times write for each other. No one but TV talking heads actually read these papers.

[buybuydandavis]

"False Consciousness"

Marxism is unfalsifiable by design.

[SQRLSY One]

"The proud Boys have members of all races."

Hitler's Axis included the Japanese, the "Yellow Aryans". This PROVES that Hitler was NOT racist!

[darkflame]

so not allowing yourself to be murdered by lefty extremists is violence, got it. Jesus, you get stupider every time I come back to this site.

[RabbitHead]

You are not thinking rationally. It's all just "Go Team!"

Trump is the elected president of the United States. Support for him isn't indicative of a fringe position.

How about the NFA militia? The Freedom Fighters in Minneapolis? Antifa itself? All groups prepared to use force to defend their positions, right wing?

[Ben of Houston]

I don't care about your opinion, Tony, and anyone can edit Wikipedia. Your opinion doesn't trump the evidence of my own eyes. If someone says they don't believe that, why should I believe you over them?

[Brett Bellmore]

No, actually they never thought that. Turns out they were just lying about thinking that.

[SQRLSY One]

My theory is that Nadless Nardzi, the Nasty, is a NAZI!

Hey Nadless Nardzi the Nasty NAZI… You are a Holocaust denier just like Rob Misek! Two peas in a pod, you and Rob Misek are!
Do you deny what the NAZIs did? Perhaps not, I do not know HOW far your evil goes! You strut in front of a mirror wearing NAZI gear for all I know!

What I DO know is that you ignore the roots of NAZI, and other, evil, mass-murdering authoritarianism! You, like Hitler and the NAZIs and other evil authoritarians, start out by assuming that YOU know whose life is worthy, and whose is not! Then you move on to sterilization and killing! It all starts out by denying the value of other human lives! And if you can’t or won’t see and acknowledge that, you’re a deluded and EVIL Holocaust denier, same as Rob Misek!

You and and your fuckbuddy, Shitsy Shitler, also run around telling people to commit suicide! I have NEVER been THAT evil! Nor even THOUGHT about saying that to people! Take stock of your SERIOUSLY FUCKED UP SOUL, Evil One Junior! Start by reading this: M. Scott Peck, the Hope for Healing Human Evil, https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684848597/reasonmagazinea-20/

[The White Knight]

Showing up in a known trouble spot with a weapon is seeking out a fight. He went looking for a chance to be violent and found it.

[SQRLSY One]

WHY all the comments about whether or not "Proud Boys" are racists or not, and WHY all the comments about "only MY favored news sources can be trusted"?

From the above article: "Trump still, unlike Biden, seems unable to repudiate violence from people who support him." Plain and simple! All you Trump worshippers: Refute it! "Reason = Marxists" responses will just show you to be the victims of mental lockups, that you are!

[Nardz]

So much projection

[NOYB2]

But enough about Biden.

[Just thinkin aloud]

"...denying the value of other human lives."
You mean like abortion?

[Nardz]

Correct

[Hank Ferrous]

'I’m willing to learn,' demonstrably untrue.

[CLM1227]

Yes. I still am at a loss why Militia groups are totes bad. In the long run, they are who will protect us from an over reaching government - not the police and not the military.

So why do conservatives and libertarians accept the left's framing on militia groups?

[Michael Ejercito]

How many black-owned businesses did the Proud Boys burn down?

How many black-owned businesses did Antifa burn down?

It is clear who exactly is re-enacting the 1921 Tulsa riots.

By the way, I have some doubts that a white supremacist organization would hire a chairman who has the same skin tone as Zoe Saldana.

[NOYB2]

You can go to the Proud Boys web site and look at what they believe: they are clearly not white supremacists.

You can also go to the Democratic party and Biden's web site and see what they stand for: massive government handouts, racial divisiveness, etc., a party program reminiscent of the NSDAP.

[JoeB]

The Dems are trying to head fake us into thinking that a significant amount of recent violence is due to right-wingers fomenting it. Trump's job, which he succeeded in doing, was to refute that BS fake narrative and call out the Dems for their clear and unquestionable facilitation of that violence. You clearly either know this, or are really obtuse.

[Tony]

Are you people serious right now?

[RabbitHead]

To the extent that you find yourself in opposition to Tony, you can be assured that you're on the right track.

He's not always wrong, but it's pretty reliable

[SQRLSY One]

Trump clearly can't disavow private violence that supports Him, while Biden CAN! You have NOT refuted these FACTS, because they are FACTS!

[loveconstitution1789]

Hitler's SS had brown Muslims serving in it.

[loveconstitution1789]

Democrat party is the socialists.

[Tony]

They’re really not.

[SQRLSY One]

Yes! This FURTHER proves that Hitler was NOT a racist!

Since even Hitler wasn't a racist, we can pretty firmly conclude that racism isn't a "thing" at all!

[NOYB2]

You haven’t stated “facts”, you are babbling incoherently.

[damikesc]

"Trump clearly can’t disavow private violence that supports Him, while Biden CAN! "

"Antifa is a concept, not a group" isn't actually disavowing anything.

[SQRLSY One]

You can't refute what is clearly stated in the above article. Gotcha!

[Isaac Bartram]

What I have seen is mostly that Antifa "shows up" when groups they disagree with are peacefully assembled (last I checked, that was still in the COTUS) and start swinging fist and clubs and when someone swings back start crying about "violent racists".

[Isaac Bartram]

You have to understand Newspeak.

Anyone the modern left disapproves of is a Nazi.

Anyone who says or even believes something that hurts the feelings of these snowflakes is a Nazi.

Anyone who doesn't care about the things these snowflakes care about is a Nazi. Indifference or neutrality is not an option. You have to care, man, care. You have to feel.

They will not leave you in peace. If your lucky they will only scream abuse at you and cause you some inconvenience. But they are perfectly prepared to cause grievous bodily harm or even death if they feel strongly enough. They are prepared to destroy your property. That's how much they care, man. I mean they really care and feel and....

[Granite]

So nothing about humanity has changed in 75 years. Oh wait, I mean nothing has changed about humanity. Ever.

[Granite]

We don’t know - no one really cares about the proud boys and no one knows anything about them except they are anti antifa.

[Mother's Lament]

I'm saving this for later.

[Just thinkin aloud]

Those were mostly peaceful burnings, lootings and murders. The left said so, so it must be true!

[Tony]

Yes you are. You're defending the honor of the Proud Boys. You're not only part of a political movement, you're part of the worst one.

[Anne]

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