Debates 2020

Donald Trump Says Joe Biden Is the Candidate of Perpetual COVID-19 Lockdowns

Though the presidential debate was pure chaos, Trump destroyed Biden on the question of reopening the economy.


In the first presidential debate on Tuesday night, moderator and Fox News anchor Chris Wallace did Joe Biden no favors when he noted that the Democratic nominee seemed more hesitant than incumbent President Donald Trump when asked about reopening the country after coronavirus-related closures. In response, Trump seized the moment and successfully painted his opponent as the avatar of painful, economy-wrecking lockdowns.

In a chaotic, horrendous debate in which few actual substantive ideas were debated productively—and no one came off looking good—this was clearly a strong moment for the incumbent.

"[Biden] wants to shut this country down and I want to keep it open," said Trump. "He wants to shut it down again. He will destroy this country."

The president claimed that shutting down the country was necessary at the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, but that the potential for long-term damage means states should prioritize reopening. Trump also called out individuals states and cities run by Democratic politicians—Pennsylvania, New York City, and others—and claimed that continued lockdowns were destroying jobs, families, and small businesses.

"It's almost like being in prison," said Trump. "Look at what's going on with divorce, alcoholism, drugs. It's very sad. [Biden] will close down the whole thing. We don't need someone to come in and shut it down."

When it was his turn to respond, Biden pivoted. Bafflingly, he mostly refused to rebut the charge that he would shut down the economy again. Instead, he accused Trump, and wealthy people in general, of continuing to rake in millions and billions while common people were suffering.

"The difference is millionaires and billionaires in the COVID crisis have done very well," said Biden. "You folks in working-class towns, how are you doing?"

It was clearly an effort to discuss the recent New York Times story about Trump paying very little in income taxes over the years. This is a perfectly fine line of attack, but it didn't really address the topic at hand: ruinous coronavirus lockdowns. But if Trump wanted viewers to believe that Biden would shut down the economy again at a moment's notice, Biden did little to dispel this notion. He claimed that businesses and schools needed more money in order to thrive and that he would work with congressional leaders to provide them with financial and logistical support. On the other hand, it seemed clear that Trump wants to reopen schools—a top demand of frustrated, working-class parents in large cities run by Democrats—whereas Biden might defer to the special interests within his political coalition: namely, pro-shutdown teachers unions.

This seems like one of the stronger arguments Trump can make for reelection: Vote for me, or the economic and social misery relating to pandemic-era restrictions will continue, possibly getting worse. It's an argument quite at odds with the president's actual record, of course: As the death toll climbs past 200,000, the Trump administration has largely failed to prevent coronavirus-related misery. But Biden could have forcefully clarified that he will work to return the U.S. to normal as swiftly as possible, even in the absence of funding allocated by Congress. He didn't.

NEXT: Is the COVID-19 Herd Immunity Threshold as Low as 15 Percent?

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  1. I drank every time someone said “and by the way”, and passed out.
    So, who won?

    1. Jo Jorgensen.

      1. If she can find a way to get her message out to people about how much better she is than that shitshow, it could benefit her. But nobody is going to hear what she has to say.

        Put her on the stage with these losers and she’d look like Aristotle in comparison.

        1. After watching that debate I’d vote for anyone but one of those two vacuous idiots that were onstage. Jorgensen is getting my vote.

          1. …You were waiting until after the debate to decide that? I only watched because I like trainwrecks, and I wanted to see if Joe might have a stroke on camera.

            1. Exactly! If within the last three and a half years you haven’t figured out who you are not voting for then maybe you should sit this one out.
              Jo Jorgensen 2020!

              1. Wearenotperfect
                September.29.2020 at 11:38 pm
                “Exactly! If within the last three and a half years you haven’t figured out who you are not voting for then maybe you should sit this one out.
                Jo Jorgensen 2020!”

                So this is lefty shits for Jo?

                1. I quit working at shoprite and now I make $65-85 per/h. How? I’m working online! My work didn’t exactly make me happy so I decided to take a chance on something new…KGf after 4 years it was so hard to quit my day job but now I couldn’t be happier.

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            2. Joe did have a stroke on camera.

              That left eye closure teice was a dead give away.

          2. I am voting for Jo as well. Maybe she can get 5%.

            1. I’m with her.

            2. She will not only get a smaller percentage of the vote than Gary Johnson did, but she will also get fewer total votes. And the loser brigade still will not be able to fathom where they went wrong.

              Maybe I’ll just write in Jacob Hornberger.

              1. Where’s McAfee these days?

            3. It’s weird how the post modernists and anti-racists all agree.

        2. They would have just talked over her. Wallace needed a couple of mute buttons.

          1. Yeah, seriously, the need to cut the mic of the other person when someone is talking.

            1. No need to cut the mic, just give Biden more time later.

            2. And cut them both when they’re talking over each other off topic.

              But honestly, can you trust any moderator to actually avoid abusing that? That’s the big problem.

              1. Remember when the Democrat primary debates had candidates talking over one another?

                Politics has devolved into shouting matches because non-Lefties are fighting back. Before it was just Lefties lying and saying whatever to get elected and non-Lefty politicians taking it “respectfully”.

                Fuck that! Democrats started this Civil War…again, so its on like Donkey Kong. Trump is our man!

        3. “Put her on the stage with these losers and she’d look like Aristotle in comparison.”

          You could name any number of people who would do the same, but even if Jo won the election, she’s still the POTUS and has nearly zero effect; she has no base in congress.
          Trump is all sorts of obnoxious, but he’s done more to help libertarian efforts than anyone since Silent Cal.
          My vote goes to her, but I’m in CA, so my vote is irrelevant.

          1. The President could do a lot. Read “The President’s First Day in Office” by Harry Browne. Start by undoing all the unlawful executive orders. Then release all the nonviolent federal prisoners. Then start vetoing every bill. Bring the troops home from around the globe.

            1. What you’re smoking, well, I’ll pass.

            2. what did Chuck Schumer say? 6 ways till Sunday or something like that?

              If you don’t side with the cathedral or have some common cause with them, you’re not going to change much of anything.

            3. Did you miss the recent ruling where an EO had to be undone through standard rule making processes? Or was this a one time precedent?

              1. I was about to ask if CE met ‘Hawaii Judge’ yet.

                It would almost be worth living through the disaster of a Jorgensen Presidency for the black comedy of giving you people what you want. Talk about a babe in the wilderness. The bureaucracy would eat her alive.

                1. The whole purpose of the DC Circuit is to handle Washington DC matters.

                  These Lefty District judges in Hawaii demanding the entire USA be affected by their local court decisions is ridiculous. Hawaii would not like it a federal District Court judge in Georgia told Hawaiians what to do.

            4. ” undoing all the unlawful executive orders”

              Trump tried to undo at least some unlawful orders, and is still in court defending his attempts.

        4. If she had a chance to win, she’d be talking just like them. The conduct of elections is not a product of chance.

        5. Jorguson is a bigger shit show than both of them. At least Joe Biden lies and pretends not to support BLM or its worst elements. Jorgunson can’t even do that.

          Sorry but I prefer my libertarian candidates not to support Marxist organizations. I am just picky like that.

          1. Is this all because she made, like, one tweet saying maybe Black Lives Matter has some good points to make, or some similar very weak, reserved “endorsement”.

            1. She was also terrible during the debates. She kept bullshitting about how she would be principled while at the same time “big tent”, without specifying how. At least Hornberger was consistent, and Vermin Supreme was surprisingly eloquent.

    2. Biden said we didn’t have hurricanes and tornadoes before Trump. The left wants shutdowns to put their plans in effect. Obviously Biden will do as his… brain is directed.

      1. Supposed to be an independent comment. This format sucks.

        1. The 90s are alive in the Reason website code.

          1. Stupidity is alive and well when CMW posts.
            Fuck off and die, lefty shit.

            1. Hey, at least we are voting for the same person (or so you claim). You are an angry bitter man, but thanks for voting for Jo.

              1. “You are an angry bitter man, but thanks for voting for Jo.”

                You are a stupid piece of lefty shit who assumes to know me. You don’t; you are easily identifiable as a stupid piece of lefty shit.
                My anger is directed to lefty shits who, given the least chance, will use the power of the government to enslave me. It’s not surprising that you, as a stupid piece of lefty shit, are amazed that those of us who produce wealth find you despicable.

                1. Meh, I know enough about you to know you are a deeply unhappy individual that is angry at the world. I am sorry things didn’t work out for you. It’s never too late to embrace kindness and love.

      2. I was surprised when Biden promised, with great confidence and gusto, that under his administration we would finally be able to get down to “net zero energy production.”

        I just learned how to make feather sticks. My bow drilling needs serious work, but I can make it work with enough elbow grease. I am not concerned.

        1. Net zero energy production is maximum entropy.

          Maximum entropy is death.

          Hey, at least he’s honest.

      1. You’re kidding.

        He was a disgrace.

      1. ^better answer

      2. Joe the Plumber using Rogaine?

    3. Trump won ugly

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  2. How many bennies do you think they fed the old man before the show?

    1. How ever many, they should have juiced the old bureaucrat sooner because Trump was winning hands down during the first ten minutes. I missed a substantial portion after that.

      1. Winning? Nobody one that abortion of a “debate”. This country is so fucked.

        1. Then maybe kill yourself and spare everyone your irrelevant whining?

        2. Speaking of abortion, Roe v. Wade came up as a question to Biden, who digressed into some bullshit, so it was all about bullshit when it got around to Trump, who steered it into support by the military or police or something.


        3. Trump destroyed biden and democrats know it.

          4 more years of trump. Remember presidents are elected for 4 years not 3.

    2. Which old man? There were two.

      1. But only one commenter who wakes up in the morning thinking of Trump, spends the entire day doing the same, and goes to bed at knight ditto.
        Aren’t you proud of yourself and your affliction? Is your mommy proud?

        1. It’s comforting knowing that you are here beside me, Sevo my friend, every step of the way, accompanying me on my journey of Trump disdain.

          1. I’m sure being called on your constant TDS bullshit has you scrambling for some sort of deflection, but as an asshole with a raging case of TDS, did you really think that anyone here might be fooled by your bullshit, bullshitter?
            Stuff it up your ass so your head has some company. And, please, the world asks you: Fuck off and die.

            1. Debate really has you riled up.

              1. To be fair, he’d call you out on your bullshit with the same vigor had there not been a debate.

      2. This is the second time today I made a comment that is critical of both Trump and Biden, and you got upset that I criticized Trump. That says more about your partisanship than it says about mine:

        1. You keep banging the “Trump is also old, derp!” drum because Biden is clearly unfit for anything but a retirement home, and Trump’s extreme energy (dude does 3-4 rallies in 3-4 different states a day) apparently is something you greatly resent.
          Of course, there’s not much you don’t resent.

          1. Lefties tear down what they cannot compete with.

            Trump was clearly more presidential and aggressive than Joe wishes he could be.

            It almost looked like Biden was being elder abused

        2. You have an odd habit of linking to your own comments. Is it because you feel your previous point was dead-on, or do you have a difficult time finding other supporting material?

          No one else links to their own comments. It’s weird.

          1. Hinh used to do that.

        3. They’re both old age wise, but only one of them is old in every other way. It’s really kind of shameful what they’re doing to Biden.

  3. “Bafflingly, he mostly refused to rebut the charge that he would shut down the economy again.”

    Probably because they plan to shut down the economy again.

    1. Trump failed to point out the fact that most of the economic damage was caused by far-left governors.

      1. Nope, he pointed that out several times, that far-left Democrat governors chose to shut down their states as well as refused to enforce laws to stop crime.

        1. He pointed it out in asides on other questions, but at the key time to rebut Biden, he got onto some other topic.

      2. He did and Wallace cut him off

  4. Biden also helpfully mentioned that ballots that didn’t have the witness verification shouldn’t be discarded but instead should be remanded for verification – i.e., that invalid ballots shouldn’t be treated as invalid ballots. Nice of him to signal exactly what the Democrats intend to do. Count Every Vote! Those bastard Republicans are going to be suppressing the vote by insisting that we should only count valid votes.

    1. What is wrong with remanding for verification?

  5. I didn’t watch the debate, but I just talked to a Trump hater who said she thought Biden was just as awful as Trump–which is a victory for Trump of sorts. If you’re a swing voter, you need to either revile or love one of the candidates enough to want to bother to fill out a ballot and snail mail it or go stand in line at polls. If Trump pulled Biden down to his level, that’s to Trump’s benefit. Trump supporters are heading to the polls no matter what. If swing voters who lean Democrat don’t think there’s much difference between them on the civility front, they may not bother going to the polls.

    1. He definitely dragged Biden off his high horse and rubbed his face in the mud. Missed a couple of great opportunities, but really nailed him on several key issues. Even did a passable defense of his COVID policy.

      1. Trump was wrestling with Wallace as much as Biden. Dude is a good interviewer, but he was horrific as a moderator.

        1. He made it about himself when he wasn’t outright shilling for Biden

    2. And he forced Biden to take a few positions that will piss off some of his key supporters.

      1. Or his key supporters will just assume Biden lied to benefit them.

    3. Trump is winning by more states that he beat Hillary.

      Trump dominated biden and eVen Biden knew it immediately

      1. Trump won key points on the economy, rule of law, strong military, good trade deals, jobs, and democrat corruption.

        All the stuff he beat Hillary with.

  6. It took all of one debate for Biden to abandon the Bernie Bro’s, the AOC crowd and the protestors. I figure Kamala will hand him his marching orders again by noon tomorrow.

    If he loses the statists, he’ll be on a park bench feeding the pigeons come late November.

    1. In reality, Biden should cancel the next 2 debates, and claim that Trump fails to follow the rules by talking over him.

      1. I’m cool with Trump’s scorched-earth style. In the immortal words of the great Henry Gondorff, “ there’s no point in being a grifter if it’s the same as being a citizen. “

        1. Yup.trump messed up biden narrative by replying immediately.

          Not sure if anyone else caught biden mouthing memorizing his talking point while onstage.

  7. “…Trump seized the moment and successfully painted his opponent as the avatar of painful, economy-wrecking lockdowns…”

    There is, nowhere in history, where a planned economy did other than spread poverty and, often, mass death. NOWHERE!
    The lefty shits Newsom and Cuomo should have their feet held to the fire to explain the number of bankruptcies as a result of their ‘5 year plans’, and both should be held financially liable for the damage they caused.
    Dunno about Cuomo, but Newsom’s acquaintance with commerce has him and a Getty heir bankrolling a couple of restaurants; a ‘lark’.
    May he get fucked as the wife of one of his staff members did by him.

    1. In the cramped backseat of an electric car?

      1. Not sure; it was before ECs became fashionable and Newsom has never done anything which is unfashionable.
        He hired a chief of police when he was (briefly mayor – started stumping for Lt Gov a week or so after winning); her qualifications included not getting in between that scumbag and a camera; dangerous!

    2. What are you babbling about you fascist, inbred moron?

      1. Pretty sure the English language is difficult for assholes like you; try learning to read.

      2. Definition of irony: the guy who literally calls for genocide of multiple groups of people calling others fascists.

        1. In response to a comment decrying planned economies no less

        2. Soldiermedic: Mormons are the bigoted fascists. Can you name one Mormon who was killed by the Nazis FOR BEING MORMON NOT FOR OPPOSING NAZISM.
          You probably can because I’m sure there are a few Mormons who died that they don’t know the cause, so the LDbS church probably claim they were killed for being Mormon. Even if there are a couple it’ll still doesn’t mean the Nazis killed Mormons just for being Mormon. The ones who were killed were killed for opposing Nazism just like any German. Most Mormons kept their head down and shut up, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

          1. Now you are defending the Holocaust? Keep digging asshole.

            1. How is that defnding the Holocoust?
              If you’re referring to the “kept their heads down, and there’s nothing wrong with that” my point is until you’re in a situation like that you can’t judge people’s actions too harshly. I’m not condoning the Holocoust I’m just saying the people who didn’t risk their lives to resist nazism because they cared about keeping them and their families safe shouldn’t be judged.

              Saying I support the Holocoust is just disemgenous. You’re just proving my point about Mormons lying.

              If so many Mormons were killed for simply being Mormon it shouldn’t be hard to find some names…

              1. Keep digging. There are whole books on the subject. Keep it up scumbag Nazi lover and defender.

                1. Keep being a disingenuous liar JUST LIKE YOUR MORMON FAMILY. Don’t call me a Nazi. You’re the far right , military man. I’m a fucking pacificist, who is only talking about killing mormons in self defense

                  1. Lol

                  2. Killing them in defense of your beloved nazism?

                    1. I have less in common with Nazis than far right inbred hicks.

            2. Too be fair I could of made it more clear.
              Let me be unambiguous: I DONT DEFEND OR CONDONE THE HOLOCOUST. People who risked their lives to resist nazism are hero’s. The people who didn’t, but didn’t actively participate(and I know it’s super complex and this is a touchy subject) in harming others and just focused on keeping them and their families safe shouldn’t be villified. We don’t know what it’s like to be in that kind of situation.

              1. To be fair you are a fucking Nazi scumbag.

                1. Dude you’re just being disemgenous. I’ve read plenty on the Holocoust and on LDS history. If Mormons were killed simply for being Mormon you should have no problem proving me wrong! One name(that doesn’t prove they systematically killed Mormons for being Mormon like they did other groups). If not a name one anecdote? One shred of evidence since you’re the one making the claim?
                  You’re the far right Mormon lover. You have more in common with the Nazis then me.

              2. I don’t understand what you’re trying to say by your line of questioning, but here’s my best shot:
                1. If Mormons resisted the Nazi government, they would be killed for being Mormon.
                2. No Mormons were killed by Nazi Germany simply for being Mormons (that is, placed in the same category as Jews, Homosexuals and Roma).
                3. Therefore, Mormons are bigoted fascists

                Wouldn’t it make more sense if they weren’t killed for being Mormon in your line of argument? That would put them in the company of Operation Valkyrie, Those who sheltered Jews, and Dietrich Bonhoeffer.
                Also, how do you jump from not being killed by the government, to being Fascists themselves when you later said that those who didn’t resist, but didn’t actively participate shouldn’t be villified.
                I’m just struggling to understand your logic here.

                1. Were any, say, atheists killed by Nazis for being atheists? KAR “logic” seems spurious at best.

              3. So, you claim to not defend the Holocaust while repeatedly doing so? Confusing.

                1. How am I defending the Holocoust? Pointing out that Mormons weren’t targeted because of their religion is not condoning or defnding the hoocoust.
                  Goddamn you righties are either disengenous liars or really stupid.

    3. Cuomo literally said NY did nothing wrong and the feds should pay for all the damages suffered by the lockdown.

      Saying the quiet part out loud.

  8. Oh, and the Biden-bash is over? Thanks, Robbie for taking one for the team.

  9. I did think it was very pointed how Biden utterly refused to say he was against court-packing.

    He even said, “If I take any position on that it will become a story.” That’s really something Trump’s campaign can work with.

    1. It could have been worse, but Biden had Chris Wallace to prop him up.

    2. He also denied the existence of antifa

  10. The debate was a shitstorm of incoherence. Biden repeated scripted lines, while staring woefully into the camera, with no regard for the questions being asked. Trump barked out random statements that were barely sentences. Biden spoke in sentences that made no sense. They jeered and laughed at one another. Wallace had no control over the candidates, or the questions.

    The only takeaway, in my view, is that Trump forced Biden to more or less disown the radical elements of his party, which may cost him votes. Other than that, I regret immensely subjecting myself to such mind numbing stupidity.

    1. Biden claimed to be the Democratic Party. Trump never claimed that of the Republicans.

      1. Correct.

        It was a strange boast from Biden, and one that seemed to be calculated to create the impression among “moderates” that Biden was distancing himself from the “radicals.” However, if the “radicals” stay home on election day, I think Biden’s chances of picking up the win are slim to none.

        1. He was clearly told to say that exact line.
          Can’t win on their plans, so have to have their Trojan horse announce “i am a horse!”

          1. Judge Dredd: I never broke the Law! I am the law!

        2. The radicals hate Trump too much to stay home on election day. They’ll deal with Biden later

    2. It was 65 degrees out tonight and about 35% humidity – Instead of watching the debate, I decided to have a few beers on the back patio and grill some chicken.

      I feel like I won debate night more than most people did.

      1. That’s really cold. I hope you don’t get coronavirus. (Even if you do, it may still be marginally better than having watched the debate).

      2. I’ve never had great success in grilling chicken. I guess it’s hard to control the temperature of the (admittedly janky) grill so I can cook it throughout while not searing the outside too much. I supposed your talking about breasts/thighs and not wings/drumsticks.
        What makes the grill your preferred method for chicken?

        1. I’m not Minadin, but an outdoor grill gives decent char marks and smoke that i don’t get from my usual method of roasting a whole chicken. Usually, I parted out a whole chicken for grilling, though spatchcocking would work, I think.

          Usually coat the exterior with herbs and black/red pepper. I’ll put them under the skin with minced garlic if I feel like going to that much work.

          1. Spatchcocking is the way to go when grilling chicken, and lower temps are better. Flare ups are practically inevitable, so be prepared to move them around. Do not leave them unattended, unless you like the flavor of grease soot.

        2. You need a better grill. I have great success grilling boneless breasts on a pretty basic gas grill.

        3. My tips for grilling chicken, esp. boneless chicken breast…pound the chicken breasts a bit with a meat mallet a bit to get a more uniform thickness…brine before grilling…use meat thermometers and remove from grill as soon as the minimum safe temp is reached (but different pieces may be at different temps).

  11. Trump is an idiot.

    Chris Wallace is an establishment guy. All-in with the nevertrump big government folks.

    Why he thought Wallace would be a good choice is beyond me. And if Fox pushed him… what were they thinking?

    What a crap list of topics. And even the topics were asked about from the dumbest possible angles.

    The dumbest of all of them was the argument over riots and antifa. Biden says antifa is an idea not an organization and Wallace insists that they will not be talking about antifa, they must talk about white supremacist groups adding to the violence. That was just horrifically bad.

    1. Biden lost big time on law and order, and repeating the law that antifa doesn’t exist, when everyone who’s watched the news for the past 4 years can see that it does.

      1. repeating the lie rather.

        where’s the edit button?

        1. When they have the next Reason fund drive, maybe they will have a donation level to activate the ‘edit post’ button.

    2. You remind me of a football fan that only see’s penalties committed by the other team. But we both agree that Trump is an idiot.

      1. I wrote the same about Wallace in these very pages more than once over the last few months.

        Wallace is an establishment guy. He is a big government dude.
        He’s gonna be fine with Bush or Romney or Biden or Clinton.

        Getting him to moderate would have been like HRC allowing Bernie to moderate in 2016. And it was.

        1. Oh, and I wrote that Trump is an idiot on these very pages in the spring of 2015 when he started polling well. I said it was a goof, and nobody would ever actually pull the lever for him.

          So I don’t exactly have my finger on the pulse of the nation.

          And it did turn out that Trump is not as dumb as the character he plays on tv – although that is quite a low bar.

          1. Wallace was pretty transparent in this one.
            The example you mentioned was egregious, as well as his trying to deflect from Hunter Biden’s corruption.
            Those are but 2 of his many errors.
            If nothing else, for those who want to “both sides” his performance and deny the clear bias, he had no sense when it was natural to step in and move on vs when he needed to let the round go a little longer.
            But hey, at least he got to that most substantive of topics: climate change!

            1. Oh, and calling critical race theory “anti-discrimination” (or however he termed it) training was just peachy

            2. The “Biden Plan for the Climate” made an unceremonious debut tonight.

              I will take healthy skepticism over wizardry any day of the week.

    3. The tax return nonsense was the biggest joke.

      Wallace is a democrat and it showed.

      Trump dominated wallace who suppoedly was moderate. Trump will own the Lefty moderators.

    4. Fox got exactly what they wanted out of Wallace.

  12. Wallace lost all control of the debate with his accusatory opening statement to trump. Wallace to trump “ trump when did you stop beating your wife?
    Wallace to biden. “biden how will you keep Trump from beating his wife?”

    1. Pretty much.

      Then he weighed in to protect Biden from any question about his corruption in Ukraine and China. You’d think it was Kennedy’s girlfriend.

  13. Trump landed the most hard punches, but he should have gone back to his corner and left Biden looking dazed after each haymaker. Instead he kept piling on and looking like a bully and not Presidential.

    Biden mostly seemed coherent, even if his claims made no sense. It could have gone worse for him and better for Trump.

    1. I agree.

      Biden said incoherent things in relatively complete sentences, and thus appeared more “on point.” Trump, on the other hand, did not use complete sentences and, as a result, muddled his message — even though the things he was saying were more “correct” than Biden’s scripted nonsense.

      The entire debate, however, was an insult to human intelligence.

    2. More than once, Biden looked like he might lose his way getting a complete sentence out, and Trump saved him by talking over him.

      1. It was a really weird debate. Biden managed to articulate things that made no sense whatsoever, while Trump struggled to articulate things that — had he said them clearly — would have made sense.

        1. Trump is often a terrible spokesman for his own ideas.

          For example, the big problem with mail-in ballots isn’t mail-in ballots per se, but the sudden scale-up in the number of mail-in ballots for this election. A more articulate spokesman could stay on point with that message, but he has confused things by voting by mail himself, by encouraging Florida voters to vote by mail, by trying to make a non-existent distinction between absentee and mail-in ballots, by bringing up minor incidents of election fraud (often not even involving mail-in ballots).

          1. Agreed.

          2. Disagree. One of the biggest problems with mail-in ballots is the ease with which ballots can be “disappeared”. Most other forms of voting fraud require some effort, like making up fake ballots or tricking old folks into giving you their ballots then forging their names, or pretending to be a “fair” poll worker but then running to the voting machine when no one i looking an pounding out a few dozen votes every hour or so.

            With mail-in ballots, they can simply cease to exist and there’s not much anyone can do to prove anything bad actually happened. Imagine say a Biden-supporting USPS worker doing his route and when he picks up the mail from a house with Trump signs in the yard, he checks for mail-in ballots and puts them all in a trash bag to take home and burn, and he can do that every day.

    3. Trump followed his haymakers with punches all the way with Biden hitting the canvas.

      Trumps picking up more states than 2016.

  14. Watching that gave me a headache. Biden said he would shut down the country if the science supported it. Fuck that. I think we learned the first time that it’s not the right approach.

    Trump mocked Mormons and their magic underwear. He’s right about that. If you defend the bloodsucking bastard mormons YOU’RE CONDONING THEIR GODDAMN IDIOTIC BELIEFS!

    “What Liberals believe is so dumb!”
    “What Mormons believe is goddamn rubbish!”
    “Hey that’s bigoted.”

    Being bigoted against Mormons is a GOOD THING! They deserve to be ridiculed and harassed!

    1. “Watching that gave me a headache…”
      Bad enough to kill yourself? If not, sorry.
      Fuck off and die lefty bigot.

      1. Jesus, what’s up with you tonight, Sevo?

        1. Maybe because KilAllRednexks is a fascist douchebag who has literally called for genocide of multiple groups, most notably Mormons over the past couple of weeks. Yet he calls everyone else a fascist.

          1. That might be if he were only reacting that way to KillAllRednecks. But look at his comments up and down the page.

            1. So why call out this comment? Why not one of his earlier ones? Why did you feel the need to call him out when he was attacking a self identified genocide proponent? That doesn’t look very good. He had several comments yet you decided to call him out when he was attacking someone who literally calls for genocide of people he disagrees with. Maybe think about that.

              1. To be honest, I didn’t see who he was responding to. I just saw that he was going off on another commenter here. Then, after I wrote the comment, I saw who he was responding to.

          2. “multiple groups?” Who have I said should die other than Mormons? My username is in jest and if I’ve aid redncks should die I don’t really mean it. It’s moe about pissing off far right, fascist inbreds.

            Mormons deserve to die btw.

            1. Yeah sure we believe you… Right, we totally believe someone who defends the Holocaust above and wants to recreate it today. Keep digging.

              1. BTW white Knight why shouldn’t Sevo be hostile to this Nazi Scum who defends the Holocaust and calls for Genocide. He defends it by saying the Nazis didn’t kill Mormons just for being Mormons but because the Church opposed Nazism. Gee, that is so much better.

                1. Why is Sevo being hostile to about a third of the commenters on this page?

                  1. You’re whiteknighting for KillAllRednecks? Seriously?

                  2. The LDS church didn’t oppose Nazism you liar! Open a book or use the damn internet! It is not hard to find out that the Mormon church lied about their members in Germany prior to and during WW2! I’m sure you or your goddamn Mormon family will ever admit the lies because you’re narrow minded, self righteous, bigots just like the vast majority of Mormons. Try looking in something other than a church history book you looney, inbred, far right Mormon apologist.

              2. Where have I defended the Holocoust you lying pig? I called out YOUR LIE that Mormons were killed by Nazis for being Mormon. The mormons who were killed were killed for opposing nazism. THATS NOT THE SAME THING AS BEING KILLED FOR BEING MORMON! Pointing it out isn’t defending the Holocoust and claiming it is just disingenuous. Please show me all these mormons who were killed in Germany for simply being Mormon?

                1. You did so by defending the Nazi for killing Mormons not for being Mormons but because they opposed Nazism. That is defending the fucking Holocaust, especially when you do it as an excuse for your own call for genocide. Fucking own it you fucking Nazi Scum.

                  1. How did i defend it? Pointing it out to diprove your lie isn’t condoning it or defending it! My comment up above(that you replied to so I assume you read it) makes it clear in case you misunderstood me. I don’t know if you did or not. I suspect you’re a lying coward like your Mormon family.

        2. “Jesus, what’s up with you tonight, Sevo?”
          I return the question; why are you defending a bigoted lefty asshole?

          1. I’m not defending him. I’m asking why you are so hostile to everyone tonight?

            1. Because KilAllRednecks deserves all the hostility anyone can direct at him. He is as evil as Misek. The fact that you can’t understand this or choose to ignore it is troubling.

              1. HOW DARE YOU COMPARE ME TO A HOLOCOUST DENIER YOU FUCKING PIG!!! Some consider Jews a religion/ ethnicity(not sure tbh not Jewish so I wouldn’t know) and millions were killed by Far right Nazis.
                Do Jews force kosher on society? Do they knock on doors trying to convert people? Do they breed like goddamn rabbits? NO!!
                MORMONS ARE THE AGGRESORS YOU FUCKING MORMON LOVER!!! YOU CANT BE OBJECTIVE CUZ YOUR GODDAMN FAMILY IS MORMON! I’m just defending myself and our country from their aggression. So fuck you for comparing me to a HOLOCOUST DENIER you inbred, fascist piece of trash. HOW FUCKING DARE YOU!!!

                1. Pretty sure you’re going to be tossed in a mental institution within the next 6-12 months

                2. You literally call for the Genocide of millions of Mormons and you are upset because I compare you to a Holocaust denier. You’re a fucking joke. Yeah you don’t deny the Holocaust you celebrate it by calling for more genocide. Fucking Nazi scumbag.

                3. And once again the person calling for genocide get upset and calls others fascists. Do you have no fucking self awareness? Are you such a fucking imbecile you don’t realize how much of a fucking joke you are Nazi?

                  1. Im defending myself against LDS aggression.
                    Keep lying you far right soldier. You have more in common with Nazis than me.

                4. Do you have a similar attitude towards Muslims?

                  1. No because the governments they control are on the other side of the word, and their religion has been around for over a thousand years.
                    They aren’t trying to destroy the US like Mormons will if they’re not stopped.

              2. But why is Sevo being hostile to about a third of the commenters here?

                1. He’s a troll.

                  1. No you are a fucking troll. And a fucking stupid one at that. Run away little Nazi with your dreams of genocide. Fuck if you aren’t a parody you are the ultimate example of Poe’s Law.

                    1. You’re the far right soldier. You have more in common with Nazis than me.

                2. I don’t care I only care about the fucking stormtrooper KillAllRednecks and his calls for genocide in this case. And see him get all bent out of shape because I compared him to Misek right after he admits he wants a genocide of tens of millions of Mormons? He has got to be the dumbest person and most hateful person on this thread. He can’t even make a fucking coherent argument.

                  1. Youre the one lying and being disengenous Soldiermedic. Either that or you’re really fucking stupid.

                    You’re the far right stormtrooper living in inbred montana. Again you have more in common with the Nazis than me.

                  2. “he can’t even make a coherent argument.” It’s harder to do that(I still believe I’ve done a good job) when you keep lying and claiming I support the Holocoust when I literally said the opposite. You know you’re wrong about Mormons being killed by Nazis so youve given up and resorted to calling me a Nazi. You’re the far right wing soldier. You have more i common wih the the Nazis than me. Lying goddamn Mormons.

                    1. He never conceded any points to you, because you never made any coherent argument.
                      You’re making a spurious claim that doesn’t follow. In addition to conflating absence of evidence with evidence of absence.

                    2. I thought I was pretty goddamn clear. Soldiermedic has repeatly claimed in the past the Nazis persecuted Mormons simply for being Mormon. This is not true. The Mormons who were killed were killed for resisting Nazism, not because they were Mormon. Soldiermedic has sometimes claimed, “I’m right because the LDS church resisted Nazism.” They didn’t however. It’s not hard to look up but he refuses to because he’s just like his lying Mormon family. Fuck mormons and fuck the people who blindly defend their lies.

                    3. Oh ok. You’re continuing an argument that was started elsewhere. That helps a bit.

                    4. Thanks for the civil response.

    2. Scene: Hell…

      Speaker- Hello, newcomers, and welcome. Can everybody hear me? [taps the mic a few times] Hello? Can everybuh-? Okay. [the crowd quiets down] Uh, I’m the hell director. Uh, it looks like we have about 8,615 of you newbies today, and for those of you who are a little confused, uh, you are dead, and this is hell, so, abandon all hope and uh yada yada yada. Uh, we are now going to start the orientation process, which will last about-

      Man- Hey, wait a minute, I shouldn’t be here. I was a totally strict and devout Protestant! I thought we went to heaven!

      Hell director- Yes, well I’m afraid you were wrong.

      Soldier- I was a practicing Jehovah’s Witness.

      Hell director- Uh, you picked the wrong religion as well. Another man- Well, who was right? Who gets into heaven?

      Hell director- I’m afraid it was the Mormons. Yes, the Mormons were the correct answer.

      [I’m not a Mormon and I’m not sure what KARs deal with the Mormon hate is, but that was a funny scene from South Park]

  15. When is Reason going to be hosting the Jorgensen/West debates?

    1. Who’s West? Why give him a microphone?

      1. Just give Jorgensen 2 minutes to answer the same questions Trump and Biden ignored.

    2. No thanks. trump is all the libertarian-ish policy I need for the next 4 years. By then the democrat party will be destroyed.

      Maybe then we can get some fiscal cuts in 2025.

  16. I tuned in expecting a clown show. Instead, I was treated to a shitshow. May God bless you, and may God bless America.

  17. Biden emphasized the need for a plan and businesses’ needing the wherewithal to buy PPE for reopening. But a plan is the worst thing to have, only delaying action as it does, and what kinds of business does he think would be opening now but for their need for PPE? Unless of course he meant “wherewithal” more generally as working capital, so, like, what, more credit? He was just saying whatever crap he could think of to imply that Trump was the one depriving businesses of what they needed to operate, and that Biden has a secret plan to end the war in Vietnam.

    1. And why would the President institute a “plan” for every locality in the whole country as if they were all the same?

      Why should Utah and Wisconsin have the same plan as New York?

      1. Because it’s A PLAN. Didn’t you hear? A PLAN!!

        That’s like about the favorite statement of any politician, meaning they got nuthin’.

    2. “Biden emphasized the need for a plan and businesses’ needing the wherewithal to buy PPE for reopening…”

      Every planned economy, everywhere and always, has resulted in poverty, starvation and commonly mass murder.

      1. Sure, but that’s irrelevant. Did you actually think Biden mean anything by it? Like Perot’s citing a need to get under the hood. Like when they call for a commission — no, a blue ribbon panel. Let the experts figure it out, unlike my opponent who doesn’t go by the experts.

  18. “the Trump administration has largely failed to prevent coronavirus-related misery.”

    How many times will this crap get repeated? The President has almost nothing to do with “coronavirus-related misery”, if that means lockdowns and shuttered economy. That is all on the mayors and governors, and most of those doing the most harm are Democrats.

    1. Well, he did fail to prevent that. Of course, he had very little power to prevent it, but it’s a true statement. Pretty much every politician in the world outside of Sweden also failed to prevent ‘Rona related misery, partly because they created the misery and partly because it’s a fucking virus and viruses tend to create some misery in those they infect.

  19. BTW, if you want the story of teacher’s unions shutting down schools, I’m living it right now in Broward County Florida.

    Our county was all set to open schools, having set criteria for that last spring. But when the criteria were met… the teacher’s union had their marching orders. Shut it down.

    So the governor ordered schools that wanted funding to open up and have students attend school. Broward and Miami-Dade both put forward plans to do that. Then the teachers union shut that down. They changed plans to open just at election day.

    They dared the governor to act.

    And he sent them a letter that said they were not getting 1 day past the Oct. 5 deadline.

    So they both changed back and are opening on the 5th.

    But the teacher’s union in Broward fights on.

    Our teacher’s union representative is fighting against having split virtual classrooms (with teachers in the class with some students and others at home). Her genius argument?

    The cameras in the classroom are a threat to lesbian, gay and transgender students. They are terrified that they will be outed by cameras in the class.

    Yes.. .that was actually the argument.

    Apparently if you are gay, lesbian or TG, the way you sit in class reveals your orientation.

    The punchline… the cameras don’t show the students, just the teacher.

    The double punchline… .

    The students at home are all on camera on Microsoft Teams.

    1. So lemme get this “straight”: GLBT students can be outed by their classmates seeing them on video, but not by their classmates seeing them in person?

      1. She squared the circle this way:

        They might be outed by other students seeing them on video and then capturing that video and posting it to Tik Tok.

        And yes, this is literally what she said.

        Apparently nobody has informed her that even pre-covid, pretty much every classroom had 23 portable video recording devices with Tik Tok already installed, and a live internet connection.

  20. Just listened to the NBC postgame. NBC’s hardcore democrat anchors were aghast at the train wreck that was the debate. Clearly placing blame on both Biden and Trump for “language we have never heard in a presidential debate”.

    Throw it to Chuck Todd… “It was clearly a train wreck, and we all know that it was President Trump’s fault”.

    Throw it to Andrea Mitchell “I have been watching debates for decades, and Trump just refused to follow any rules or sense of decorum.”

    They had a script in hand, and they were going to run with it.

    1. Third analyst in….

      Trump was a disgrace…. his behavior was outrageous! He was a bully! It was unpresidential! It was a disgrace to the nation!

      Next guy up…. I’ll be surprised if there is another debate. They’ll have to cut off the mic of people who are not supposed to speak.

      Now 7 analysts in… each one more hard core democrat than the last. When Lester Holt is the most conservative person on your panel, you don’t really have an honest political discussion going on.

      1. They are all hardcore Democrats. If they thought this debate went well for Biden, I am pretty sure they would be demanding another one as soon as possible and talking about what a great thing it was. The fact that they are trying to downplay it as a trainwreck and saying there shouldn’t be another debate is pretty strong evidence they don’t think it went well for Biden. Maybe they are wrong and it the public sees it otherwise. But I think they feel Biden lost. Wouldn’t you agree?

        1. I think everybody lost.

          But the debate was most likely not watched by the people who can be moved.

          And they will learn of it from sound bites and memes. They will hear the spin, not the content.

          Biden did well enough to have some sound bites that they can play.

          He had some incoherent moments, but will they see those? Wallace did a good job of jumping in every time he got flustered – or Trump jumped in instead of letting him flounder.

          So I think they will be able to spin this as “Trump was rude and Biden was too polite”.

          1. I understand what you think. But I think how they are spinning it says a lot about what they think. And if Biden had won, they would be calling for more debates and have something better to spin than “Trump was a big meanie” like that is some kind of surprise or something.

            1. Nobody thought Biden did well.
              Better than expected, sure – he didn’t have a stroke up there and remained standing (though he almost cried when Trump started in on Hunter).
              But the left was not happy. Not a single thing they could spin as a win, other than Trump being mean and racist yadda yadda.
              Biden needed to land at least one or two punches, and he wasn’t able to pull it off.

              1. That Hunter moment was seminal.

                Wallace absolutely ran interference and would not allow that line to proceed.

                We have a presidential candidate who *bragged* about using his office to get a prosecutor fired. His son unquestionably had a multi-million dollar “I’m politically connected” job that was directly related to that issue. And we are not supposed to be taking a deep dive on that?

                I find the US press corps indifference to this issue astonishing. It is as straightforward and iron-clad a case of corruption as you are ever going to find. The simple fact that Hunter had that job is a smoking gun that someone thinks they are paying off Biden. The braggadocio about getting the prosecutor fired provides the Quid for that Quo. Absent a video tape saying “I’m totally going to do this because Hunter asked me to because he has that high-paying gig”, you are never going to see more evidence than this.

                And the only interest the press has had in the issue is to try to find an angle on Trump asking about it that they can use against Trump.

                So here was Biden… about to absolutely lose his mind and challenge Trump to a pushup contest….. and Wallace jumped in and worked overtime shutting the whole discussion down.

                1. Trump said it. When he is reelected, Hunter is being indicted. They will probably flip that dipshit coke head to rat out Joe Boden and higher obama administration traitors.

                  Hillary knew this.
                  Obama knew this.
                  Joe biden knows this.

        2. Biden had multiple left eye shutdowns and was mouthing his written notes.

      2. Did they get the “white supremacists were the only ones pleased with Trump” line in?
        I checked in on CNN and it didn’t take but 30 seconds.

        1. Yes, Chuck Todd went there almost immediately out of the gate.

    2. Biden admitted to being in favor of endless lockdowns, the green new deal, and court packing. Yeah, he claimed to not be for the Green New Deal but then turned right around and said how great it was and how it would pay for itself. I don’t think he fooled anyone. He also refused to answer about court packing, which I think everyone listening will take as an admission he will support it.

      If these debates have a purpose other than strange forms of entertainment, it is for one candidate to nail the other down on where he is on the issues. Trump did that pretty well. The country now knows where Biden stands on lockdowns, the Green New Deal, taxes, and court packing. And where he stands is against popular opinion on all of those issues.

      1. Endless lockdowns are not polling well, so this will blow up in democrats faces.

  21. Trump is actually more civil and polite live, as compared to how he is demonized by the media. I remember many years ago when Buckley debated Gore Vidal. Vidal called Buckley a crypto-nazi, then Buckley called him a fag, and they both sued one another! It was both funny and pathetic.

    This was pretty tame, really. Trump was less nasty than I expected. Biden is not mentally astute enough to refute Trump, he has to attack him instead. For example, Canada’s drug production is miniscule relative to the U.S. Market, so making it legal for States to buy their pharmaceuticals does not have a big impact.

    1. I thought the “attacks” were pathetic.

      And for the most part, Trump had more facts behind him… which is … bizarre. Biden just kept “refuting” accusations or characterizations that were at least arguably on point with “He’s just wrong”.

      That’s not debate…. that’s just simple contradiction! (/monty python voice)

      1. Biden’s “rebuttal” of Hunter’s corruption was devastatingly weak.
        First he tried to make it about Beau, the “veteran”, but Trump shut that down immediately. Then all he could do was mutter “that’s not true, it’s been debunked” with no conviction whatsoever.

        1. You know, I didn’t see any real-time fact checking on that one. Hunter was either dishonorably discharged or he wasn’t. Biden repeatedly claimed that it was a lie. You’d think that CNN would have insta-checked that one and let us know if Joe was lying about his son’s record.

            1. “Administrative discharge.” Per that article. So no big chicken dinner or dishonorable, which IIRC, require a court-martial. Probably OTH. No idea if that’s typical for what Hunter did. It likely is typical for merely pissing hot, but does anyone think that was the only shit that screwup managed to splash on his uniform?

              The Don told a whopper there. DD is basically a felony, for all of the permanent aftereffects it has on a person’s record. OTH? Not so much.

              1. An other-than-honorable discharge is an administrative discharge where your command can essentially kick you out. You sign off on it and say in lieu of court martial, et cetera. It can be for something like failing a drug test, lapses in military good order and discipline.

                A Bad Conduct Discharge comes as the result of a court-martial and may be followed by prison time depending on the nature and severity of the conduct. This type of military discharge is not considered an administrative one and is a barrier to future military service.

                Dishonorable Discharge is the most punitive of all military discharges and is given as the result of a court-martial. Desertion, murder, fraud, and other crimes performed in uniform can result in court-martial proceedings that lead to a Dishonorable Discharge. No military benefits or future military service is possible with a military discharge characterized as Dishonorable.

                It’s an easy language mistake to make between “other-than-honorable” and “dishonorable”.

                1. Wrong reply level. Sorry.

            2. They removed Hunter’s BCD or dishonorable discharge from wikipedia, so it was bad if they are trying to hide it.

        2. The sequence was a little different. They weren’t even talking about Hunter when Beau came up. Trump brought up Hunter, a little awkwardly; Biden muttered (as you said) and used what was probably a prepared answer (“proud of my son for overcoming his drug addiction”); Trump inadvertently helped Biden out by talking over him; then Wallace bailed Biden out by going to the next question:

    2. Canada’s drug production is almost non-existent.

      The problem with buying “from Canada” is that the people who supply Canada will quickly recognize who the new big customer is and changed their prices accordingly.

      At which point Canada will outlaw selling those drugs south of the border.

      1. The market failures just keep piling up!

  22. NO YOU ARE THE PERPETUAL COVID-19. Since you have interfered and contradicted the experts. And now thanks to this guy we are in the mess we are in right now.

    1. my 99.9994% survival rate disagrees with you.

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