Reason Roundup

Trump's Tiny Tax Bill

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It's been four years since Donald Trump promised to release his personal income tax returns. Now that The New York Times has gone and done it for him, it's easy to see why the president never followed through on that promise.

Trump ultimately paid just $750 per year in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017, according to the Times report, and that was $750 more than he paid in other recent years. In fact, in 11 out of 18 years that the Times looked at, Trump effectively paid $0 in federal income tax.

Trump's tax burden was "less than those earning under $5K, and less then every income group earning more than $20K," New York University law professor Lily Batchelder points out.

It's also much less than he paid in taxes to other nations. "In 2017, the president's $750 contribution to the operations of the U.S. government was dwarfed by the $15,598 he or his companies paid in Panama, the $145,400 in India and the $156,824 in the Philippines," says the Times.

How did he pay so little here? "Trump initially paid almost $95 million in federal income taxes over the 18 years," the Times reports. But he

later managed to recoup most of that money, with interest, by applying for and receiving a $72.9 million tax refund, starting in 2010.

The refund reduced his total federal income tax bill between 2000 and 2017 to an annual average of $1.4 million. By comparison, the average American in the top .001 percent of earners paid about $25 million in federal income taxes each year over the same span.

The refund also earned him an IRS audit, starting in 2011, that has not been resolved.

"A lot of tax scams out there but it's genuinely rare—and suspicious—for a rich person to have such a low tax bill," claimed Matthew Yglesias of Vox.

"It's not immediately obvious that this is odd for an active real estate investor," the Tax Foundation's Karl Smith responded. "Especially doing renovations. This activity can be an enormous cash suck with very long payout horizons. [It's] totally conceivable that a successful active investor could be cash neg their whole life."

Trump's ability to so successfully minimize his tax burden is impressive. Much less impressive is what these tax returns suggest about Trump's business prowess.

"Many of Trump's top businesses are losing money, even as those losses have helped him shrink his federal tax bill to essentially nothing," notes AP. "The president has frequently pointed to his far-flung hotels, golf courses and resorts as evidence of his success as a developer and businessman. Yet these properties have been been draining money."

Trump told Americans in 2018 that he his annual earnings were $434 million. But he told the IRS that he had lost $47.4 million that year.

His golf courses have allegedly lost $315 million since 2000. The Trump International Hotel in D.C. has lost $55 million.

"It is important to remember that the returns are not an unvarnished look at Mr. Trump's business activity," writes the Times' . "They are instead his own portrayal of his companies, compiled for the I.R.S. But they do offer the most detailed picture yet available."

You can read the full Times report here.


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  1. Hashtag: Tax Cheat-oh in Chief. WE GOT HIM.

    1. Hello.

      I think journalists need to take business courses.

      “A lot of tax scams out there but it’s genuinely rare—and suspicious—for a rich person to have such a low tax bill,” claimed Matthew Yglesias of Vox.

      Lol.

      And it doesn’t matter he runs at losses. He’s hardly unique that way. Plenty of companies report losses year in and year out. I’ve had back to back losses.

      But we still pay sales, property and payroll taxes. Trump probably pays more in taxes that way.

      1. Sad Beard probably doesn’t know how to read a balance sheet and income statement and figure out what they mean.

        1. I’m willing to bet Trump’s returns are pristine. Don’t hate the person. Hate the game.

          1. After reading the Times article, I don’t think they made any accusations that his returns are not pristine, except something that ENB didn’t mention: possibly fraudulent write offs for using Ivanka as a consultant.

            1. Pay the fine and move on.

              1. In other words, “nothing to see here” because Dear Leader gets a free pass for anything from his admirers. Anyone who pays attention to things Trump has done and holds him accountable is suffering from derangement syndrome.

                1. I said pay a fine. I don’t see how using her as a consultant means anything more than it is.

                  Shit, Justin up here has done worse and the media still licks his scrotum.

                  1. How Trudeau is getting away with open fraud astounds me.
                    ProggyPass from the media I guess.

                    1. I quit working at shoprite and now I make $65-85 per/h. How? I’m working online! My work didn’t exactly make me happy so I decided to take a chance on something new…FGb after 4 years it was so hard to quit my day job but now I couldn’t be happier.

                      Here’s what I do…>>Cashapp

                  2. Woah, woah, woah. You and Mother’s Lament are both Canadians?! Can’t vote here, can’t even set foot here right now, yet deeply partisan about American politics. Weird.

                    1. Building walls are you?

                    2. I can’t find it right now, but there’s a quote from Robert Heinlein/Lazarus Long. Something like, “Canada was a part of America where the people figured out how not to pay any taxes to Washington, D.C.”

                    3. Where did I build a wall, JesseAz? I just called Rufus and Mother’s weird.

                    4. “I just called Rufus and Mother’s weird.”

                      What kind of idiot thinks it is weird to keep an eye on your next door neighbor?

                    5. Keeping an eye makes sense. Obsessing over American politics to the point where you hang out on the Reason website and comment on every article about American politics is kind of weird.

                    6. You’ve spent multiple comment threads ifnerring Canadians shouldnt comment here since they don’t live here.

                      So again, building a wall? Or you just can’t argue against their arguments?

                    7. “is kind of weird.”

                      No it isn’t.

                    8. Well since we’re talking about what we think is weird, it’s really weird that you got run off to Quora only to come slinking back with your sock between your legs.

                    9. “…Can’t vote here, can’t even set foot here right now, yet deeply partisan about American politics. Weird.”

                      Yeah, Canucks aren’t allowed to call out Yank bullshitters, right?

                    10. Not sure how we are getting from me calling someone’s behavior weird to turning that into my saying their behavior shouldn’t be allowed.

                    11. The distinction between those two position is Libertarianism 101.

                    12. No it ficking isn’t. You’re using the basis they live in Canada to avoid the argument because you are an emotional infant. Americans talked about Brexit quite a bit.

                      You dont think who the American president is effects Canada?

                      This is a dumber stance than even your economic ignorance below.

                    13. affects

                    14. Hey you’re still dodging!

                  3. “I don’t see how…”

                    Let me stop you right there. Have you read the New York Times article?

                  4. So, if you have read the article, you’d know that it is not certain at all that Trump has the money to pay the fine.

                    1. I read it and I know no such thing.

                      I saw much to insinuate that, but understanding taxes better than the times, I see far more to refute it.

                    2. “it is not certain at all that”
                      “I saw much to insinuate that”
                      Those are not in conflict. I didn’t say that I (or anyone else) absolutely *knows* about Trump’s finances.

                    3. I didn’t say that I (or anyone else) absolutely *knows*

                      So, if you have read the article, you’d know

                    4. “So, if you have read the article, you’d know that it is not certain at all that…”

                    5. I didn’t say that I (or anyone else) absolutely *knows*

                      So, if you have read the article, you’d know

                    6. remember. The video of rittenhouse was too shaky for WK. But here lack of evidence implies evidence.

                    7. Is White Gripe REALLY trying to pretend he didn’t shit his pants again?

                    8. Not sure what he thinks he’s doing, I’m literally quoting him taking two different positions.

                    9. Right, sure. And, for some reason, you keep insisting on cutting off part of my sentence when you quote it.

                    10. It’s cuz you’re just a squawking bird, Dee.

                    11. Because it doesnt change anything but is you trying to distract.

                2. remind us of your stance on Hunter Biden again.

                  1. He seems to be a shameless opportunist who took advantage of his dad’s name. He might have somehow skirted the line on doing anything illegal, but he is an embarrassment to his father. And now it has come out that his father knew about Hunter’s activities at the time, so he has some explaining to do.

                    How’s that? What did you assume my position on Hunter Biden is?

                    1. so you have more of an issue with trump using legal tax breaks than you are with a politicians family enriching themselves? Do you even understand the inference of quid pro quo with politics?

                    2. Where are you getting that I care more about one than the other? You’re basing that on nothing.

                      I care about both. I am not voting for either Trump or Biden.

                    3. How many comments do you have in this thread inferring trump has a liability issue without even considering the asset side of his ledger? Now how many comments do you have over a year implying hunters jobs were political cronyism?

                    4. We decide these things by tallying up number of comments?

                      I’ve just stated what I think about the Bidens. Statement made.

                      Trump is the subject we are discussing.

                    5. I quit working at shoprite and now I make $65-85 per/h. How? I’m working online! My work didn’t exactly make me happy so I decided to take a chance on something new… after 4 years it was so hard to quit my day job but now I couldn’t be happier.

                      Here’s what I do…>> Click here

                3. “Dear Leader gets a free pass ”

                  Rufus The Monocled
                  September.28.2020 at 9:57 am
                  Pay the fine

                  1. A fine is not a free pass.

                    Is all I’m saying.

                    1. Yes I was trying to highlight that for him

                    2. TDS affects vision along with brain functions. The assholes can’t see or think.

                    3. lol im keeping this one

                    4. What if Trump cannot pay the fine?

                    5. Its still not a free pass you sad subject changing fuck

                    6. “What if Trump cannot pay the fine?”

                      Yeah, and what about purple, too? Hunh, what about THAT!
                      Were you born this stupid, or have you spent years practicing?

                    7. Whatever if white knight molests children?

                    8. If Trump can’t pay the fine, take it out of his salary.

                      Thus denying charity $400k.

                4. “In other words, “nothing to see here” because Dear Leader gets a free pass for anything from his admirers…”

                  No, nothing to see here as there is nothing to see here and that’s in spite of asshole TDS victims trying (and failing) to make something of nothing, asshole TDS victim.
                  Fuck off and die; your family will be proud.

                5. Shut the fuck up Dee.

            2. possibly fraudulent

              Lol

            3. I’ve paid relatives to do work for me hence they become a write off

              1. So, have you read the article?

                https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html

                The issue isn’t hiring a relative as a consultant. The issue is claiming you hired someone as a consultant while that person was also an executive officer of the company that paid the consulting fee.

                1. Which law are you worried about?

                2. by the way… this happens all the god damn time in school systems where principles help formulate various roles such as vending machines or bussing where they hire their own companies. The issue is fine if competed fairly.

                3. According to the article, the consulting fees go back to 2010. The IRS would have been aware of this from the beginning. If these fees are so obviously problematic from a tax law perspective, it boggles that the IRS hadn’t sought to pursue the issue before Trump launched his presidential campaign in 2015.

                  That they didn’t strongly suggests that this issue is not so obviously a tax law violation.

                4. Impeach him immediately!

      2. If the Times article is accurate, he is running at losses. And the problem there isn’t his Federal tax returns. The problem is:
        – The amount of money he owes that is coming due for payment in the next four years.
        – The huge discrepancy between how he has portrayed himself and his actual financial situation.
        – How his massive debt makes him vulnerable to being influenced by parties who can supply him with income.

        1. Tax returns don’t tell you any of those things. They just tel you what your tax situation is. You don’t know ‘why’ anything is reported the way it is.

          Companies try to offset gains with losses as much as possible to lower tax liability. Trump’s personal income is another matter from his business operations. Don’t forget businessmen tend to throw their income back into their businesses in the form of investments.

          So they don’t have income per se to be taxed. They RISK it into businesses which pay enormous taxes and employ people who pay taxes.

          1. Did you read the article? It talks not just about his tax returns, but quite a bit that is known about his income and debts.

            1. You know absolutely nothing about business economics do you?

              A small year window means nothing. Google and Amazon ran on debt for over a decade. What’s their evaluations currently?

              My God some of you are fucking dumb.

              1. The article talks about decades, not a year. Have you read it?

                1. He hasn’t been running losses for decades, that is in there too.

                  Have YOU read it? Clearly not.

                  1. “White Gripe.” LOL. It’s true.

                    If you want to bitch about Trump using the tax code to his advantage, how about directing your ire at the previous Administrations and Congresses that created the moden tax code?

                    1. I’m not griping about Trump using the tax code to his advantage. I’m saying that the New York Time article, if it is accurate, is further evidence that Trump is a poor businessman and that, despite the way he portrays himself, facing huge debts with insufficient income to pay them.

                    2. no, all that is evidenced here is your lack of basic understanding of business and industry.

                      Not one comment youve made deals with long term appreciable assets at all. Yet that is the nature of trumps business.

                2. The decades where it showed he paid taxes in other years?

                  Sticking with the some of you are dumb point.

                  Real estate is especially heavy in turning profits into upgrades or other assets dummy.

          2. thanks Rufus came to say some similar.

        2. in order

          1) the debt is easily refinanced

          2) Lolwut?

          3) This is an idiots take

          1. 1) “the debt is easily financed” — Especially if you are the President, and can hand out favors.
            2) “Lolwut?” — Sure, Trump has been very open about his taxes and has represented himself as someone who has a lot of business debt.
            3) “This is an idiots take” — No, nyeah, nyeah, nyeah, you are the idiot. I’m rubber your glue.

            1. And now you’ve resorted to “implying”.
              Try harder.

            2. *you’re

              Idiot.

            3. 1) No. He has fucking real estate assets dumbass.
              2) he has. Just because you’re ignorant on how real estate businesses operate doesnt mean he is lying.
              3) no, youre an idiot. You have no fucking clue how a business operates.

            4. If you owe the bank 100K and can’t pay, you have a problem.
              If you owe the bank 100 million and can’t pay, the bank has a problem.
              Interest rates are historically low right now. Very easy to refinance to protect both parties.

            5. I’m a day late to the conversation so pretty good chance the White Knight has already moved on to the next topic where he can spew his drivel. But my god the White Knight is idiotic on this topic. I’m not defending Trump here at all, but clearly White Knight has no clue on several COMMON tax return topics, such as
              1. Depreciation to lower taxable income
              2. Balloon payments on long-term debt where 99.9% of the time the debt is refinanced
              3. Heavy losses on Company A can act as a tax shelter for highly-profitable Company B

              Again, these are extremely common ways to reduce taxable income available to your neighborly slumlord all the way to Trump. Real estate guys and farmers don’t pay income taxes. They pay sales tax and, to a much larger extent, property taxes.

              1. Most progressives don’t understand even simple concepts such as those. Clearly WK dos not

        3. You can’t tell any of those things from tax returns.

          1. Have you read the article?

            In addition to examining his Federal tax returns, it discusses what is publicly know about Trump’s income and debts. He has a lot of debt due in the next four years.

            1. Apparently you didn’t read the article.

              They guess and infer Trump’s income and debts. They don’t actually know.

              1. They don’t know his total financial picture. They give their sources for the debts and income that they do discuss.

                1. You are truly ignorant.

                  If trump buys a long term asset or renovated a building he increases the value of the assets while depreciating costs as a loss in the near term.

                  You are truly down a rabbit hole of ignorance here.

                2. I’m not sure why you assume reporters with no real sound history of knowing much of anything are suddenly experts on tax policy and accounting rules?

                  I have no such faith in their assumptions on anything. Especially after the NYT purge earlier this year of dissenting voices.

                  1. I highly doubt those morons at the NYT are capable of understanding Trump’s returns at all. Even if they really did see them, which I also doubt.

            2. Of course I read it, I’m not you for fucksake.

            3. You probably have a lot of debt due in the next four years. So what?

              1. This isn’t about me. And, actually, I don’t have any debt due.

                And I own way more securities than Trump: “His financial disclosure released in July showed that he had as little as $873,000 in securities left to sell.”

                1. Now do property assets.

                2. “…And, actually, I don’t have any debt due.”

                  Which goes a long way in explaining why you are as ignorant of finance as you are.
                  Come back after you grow up.

                3. “And I own way more securities than Trump”

                  I have 1000 dollars that sas this is a lie.

        4. You should just stop. Go talk to any real estate investor and come back. This is fairly normal especially after a market crash. ENB even mentioned it was fairly normal above.

          1. In my first 3 years as a multifamily rental investor, I reported tax losses while making quite healthy cash flow. The tax loss from my properties actually reduced my income tax from working, even though I was making cash in the business.

            I haven’t gotten all the way through the NYT article, but so far they are doing a very poor job of differentiating tax loss from accounting accrual income from cash flow. Surely the NYT should have at least 1-2 writers who understand how accounting works?

            1. “Surely the NYT should have at least 1-2 writers who understand how accounting works?”

              I wouldn’t bet on it. They’re propagandists, all they know is propaganda.

            2. the NYT article… [is] doing a very poor job of differentiating tax loss from accounting accrual income from cash flow

              That’s no accident.
              Just like White Knight playing dumb here is no accident.

              1. He isnt playing.

            3. Youre asking if a journalist understands the topics they are writing on? Especially political writers?

            4. Something else bothering me – the article repeats several times “a $100 million loan, coming due in 2022” as if Trump’s organization is expected to send a $100M check in 2022. In commercial lending, which is what Trump’s loans would be, it is the standard practice to lend with a due date 5, 7, 10 years out, as opposed to a 30 year mortgage standard in residential loans. I’ve been involved in 3 commercial deals and solicited lending offers from about 20 banks over those deals, and every single offer had a due date between 5 and 10 years out. The expectation is that you refinance between now and the due date. This just gives the bank a scheduled opportunity to re-verify your creditworthiness. In other words, the mortgages coming due very likely isn’t THE SMOKING GUN LOOMING APOCALYPSE IN TRUMP’S FAILING BUSINESS the article claims, it’s a bone standard agreement in commercial lending.

              1. The last time they tried this with the debt owned to bank of China they also got this wrong as it was quickly repackaged and remortgaged after 6 months.

                They have no fucking clue how this stuff works.

                1. No, they know their readers don’t, and they can leverage that ignorance into hair-on-fire panic over Trump selling his soul to the Russians or whoever.

                  1. Same with the Virus.

        5. Yes, definitely banish any politician who misrepresents himself, financially or otherwise.

          1. If there were a practical, reliable way to do so — yes.

            1. Seems like democracy does not do that.

              1. Because there are practical problems with catching and proving misrepresentations.

                1. Are their lips moving?

            2. Then there would be no more democrats.

        6. “If the Times article is accurate, he is running at losses. And the problem there isn’t his Federal tax returns. The problem is:
          – The amount of money he owes that is coming due for payment in the next four years.
          – The huge discrepancy between how he has portrayed himself and his actual financial situation.
          – How his massive debt makes him vulnerable to being influenced by parties who can supply him with income.”

          The problem here is the whining of asshole TDS victims.

          1. This isn’t an article about his orange hair. You can’t just blow it off by labeling it “TDS”.

            1. no, you can blow it off as not a big deal due to an understanding of how business taxes work. Even the NYT story says there is no big thing there.

              Sorry you’re gullible.

            2. No, that’s exactly what this is.

              There’s absolutely nothing unusual here for a real estate baron, nor is there anything illegal outside how the records were obtained.

            3. “This isn’t an article about his orange hair…”

              Yes, the article is, and yes, that seems to be the point of your entire existence.
              Fuck off and die.

        7. Seriously Dee, would you just shit the fuck up already!

        8. “If the Times article is accurate,”

          Then it will be a true miracle.

        9. Wow. Question-begging and a non sequitur within one sentence. Throw in some well-poisoning next time, and I’ll be impressed.

        10. Unlike how both China and Ukraine may influence Biden, or how Russia may influence Clinton. Crickets…

      3. More hard hitting analysis from Yglesias. Why does he still have a platform? He is useless.

        1. He did write a book on how the population of the USA should be 1 billion people. So at least he’s not buying the anti-human climate cult nonsense.

      4. The quote from Karl Smith below the Ygelsias quote directly contradicts him and suggests that Ygelsias has no basis for that judgment other than his ignorant preconceptions.

      5. What?!?! Journalists should have some actual knowledge about topics they want to report on?

        Are you some kind of objectivist racist?

        1. Next he’ll be claiming minorities have their own agency.

          1. I think they already have lots of agencies: government branches, NGOs, major media companies, …

    2. “it’s easy to see why the president never followed through on that promise.”

      The audit that the NY Times was kind enough to verify?

    3. ” Now that The New York Times has gone and done it for him”

      Should ENB fall victim to some future criminal act I’m sure that’s how Reason will present it.

    4. Taking what ENB wrote (copied and pasted?) at face value, then Trump paid almost $24 million in federal income taxes from 2000 to 2017.

      How many reason writers over how many years would it take to contribute this much to support enlightened socialism?

      1. Trump would so pay back a large portion of those taxes of he sold the property he was upgrading.

        This is why he didnt release his tax returns. Democrats are too dumb to understand them.

        The IRS, the professionals, have found no issues after 5 years of audit.

        1. If there was anything shady in Trump’s tax returns, Obama’s IRS would have leaked them during the 2016 election.

          1. Exactly. This is a nothing burger that the libtards will foolishly try to weaponize. His base and supporters will find it awesome how clever he’s been to lawfully find ways to avoid paying taxes. Only idiot libtards find joy in paying taxes.

            1. Well, they find joy in demanding other people pay taxes, anyways. Take away their own ‘loopholes’, like the SALT deduction, and they scream bloody murder.

            2. They find joy in criticizing other people. Libtards absolutely hate paying their own taxes.

      2. “By comparison, the average American in the top .001 percent of earners paid about $25 million in federal income taxes each year over the same span.”

        That would be $428 million, using the same math.

        1. Now give the average for active real estate investors who usually run cash neutral due to reinvestment.

        2. Whine, whine, whine..
          Fuck off and die.

        3. So, what’s your ethical model:

          Question: how much of their income should rich people pay in taxes?

          Answer: All of it?

          1. their ethical model is “income taxes are unfair, because some businesses don’t have income every year to be taxed. but that orange man is rich, even though we wrote this article hoping to convince morons that he’s not as rich as you think he is, and we want his money anyway. where’s muh net worth tax? even though he has no net worth, because of his huge personal debts!!!”

            1. “They” might be saying that, but he asked about my ethical model, and I’m not part of “they”.

            2. Yep. The left loves to make contradictory arguments in the same breath, then expect everyone to simultaneously believe both of them.

          2. https://reason.com/2020/09/28/trumps-tiny-tax-bill/#comment-8487386

            “I’m not griping about Trump using the tax code to his advantage. I’m saying that the New York Time article, if it is accurate, is further evidence that Trump is a poor businessman and that, despite the way he portrays himself, facing huge debts with insufficient income to pay them.”

            1. Why did you repost an ignorant statement you made? You clearly don’t understand how real estate works.

            2. Right but we can read and you’te lying.

    5. Wonder if Trump could get a security clearance if he weren’t the President:

      https://www.robinsonandhenry.com/colorado/bankruptcy/debt-and-security-clearances/

      1. Yes. He can. He simply would report his assets and income. Many people with clearances even have bankruptcies. As long s you report honestly they don’t hold it against you dumbass. They are seeking ways you could be leveraged.

        My God man, just stop.

      2. Hi White Knight.

        Tell me. Do you understand the difference between corporate and personal debt?

        1. Let’s try 2+2 (TRUMP!!!!) and see what we get.

        2. She does not.

      3. You’ve gotta wonder, too, why Brad Parscale became suicidal at the same time this story broke.

        1. Consdierng when he was let go, no you really don’t.

        2. And it rained someplace in the US and what about Elvis’ alien love child?
          Gotta wonder about that, too!!!

        3. The only thing I’m wondering is why you insist on being an annoying twat all the time.

        4. Mash Letter from The Donald to Leona Helmsley

          Roses are red,
          Violets are blue,
          Won’t you come here,
          And join my crew?
          I like to collect babes, as if they were Cocker Spaniels,
          You’d look quite nice, right next to Stormy Daniels!
          “Taxes are for the little people”
          For a campaign slogan, it sounds GREAT!
          Won’t you help me fool the greedy sheeple?
          To their suffering, you and I, we could masturbate!
          Brad Parscale, my old campaign pal,
          Wants to kill himself, what style!
          Won’t you stay with me a while,
          And be my campaign gal?

        5. Let me guess. You’re not cheering on a suicide?

          1. This mash letter was written by The Donald, not by me! So don’t blame me!

            AND, I would add, I intercepted the message (one could accurately call it a “message from a butthole”) using the powers vested in me, by my ownership of a FINELY calibrated tin-foil hat! A tin-foil hat that works MUCH better than those of Trumptard boot-lickers!

            If you or ANYONE is contemplating suicide, call the National Suicide Hot Line at 800-273-8255!

            1. Fuck off, Sqrlsy.

            2. No one was talking to you fuckwit.

      4. Almost all democrat members of Congress certainly could not.

    6. You got him? Using existing provisions of tax law to reduce personal income taxes to a minimum is not illegal. The fact that you obviously think otherwise is a perfect example of why releasing complex tax returns is a futile gesture; people such as yourself have no idea what they’re reading.

      1. whats hilarious is in the NYT article he even paid 5.2 million in 16 and 17 and then pushed forward that money as future payments after adjusting liabilities. Gave government an interest free loan.

    7. It’s appalling that trump paid $750 in income tax. Any income tax over 0% is imoral

      1. My admiration for Trump increased greatly now that I see how cleverly he used the Democrats’ tax laws to his advantage!

        Wonder what Queen Pelosi’s taxes look like? Or RBG’s?

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    10. Uh…exactly how do you think you “got him”? You do know that the IRS has always had Trumps fed tax returns, and he’s even been audited.

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  2. Trump ultimately paid just $750 per year in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017…

    He stiffs the government like he stiffs his workers!

    1. Curious if anyone has actually seen the tax returns under discussion.

      1. The claim isn’t even returns but “data”

        1. Isn’t the “data” allegedly contained in and derived from his tax returns?

          1. Supposedly, but out of context and incomplete, which is what they have implied.

      2. Someone has seen them, but I assume you mean someone other than the New York Times and their source(s). The Times is claiming they cannot share the returns because it would reveal their source.

        1. You assume wrong. I see no source and I have no reason to think the New York Times has seen Trump’s returns or has a source who has seen them.

        2. Your ignorance is amusing me more than usual today Dee.

      3. they said they won’t show the returns to anyone else to protect the person who gave it to them illegally, which means they may not have real returns or any returns at all. the whole thing may be another steel dosier in the dearier sham.

        1. Whatever you need to believe.

          1. That’s truer for you than him.

          2. So I’m marking this for the next time you ask for sources.

            1. That would be a great comeback, if I claimed anywhere that I believe without reservation that the Times story is true. Actually, I see it as needing corroboration, and as raising questions that Trump should address more openly and honestly.

              For example, he keeps saying he cannot release his tax records because he is being audited. That is not true. It’s a lame excuse.

              1. “For example, he keeps saying he cannot release his tax records because he is being audited.”

                Didn’t the NYT article mention he was being audited? For years?

                Funny, Obama critic gets audited. Must be coincidence.

                1. Yes, but being audited does not prevent him from showing his returns.

              2. Who the fuck are you to think you get an opinion about how people act when audited?

                Literally the first thing attorneys tell you is say nothing, you fucking clown.

          3. thats what teh news said this morning they won’t release the returns are there returns no reason to believe them based on past experience wether you hate trump or not

    2. New York Times says Trump paid little to no taxes in some years, because of huge losses.

      And they found nothing on Russia and no Michael Cohen. They confirmed he has been under audit a long time. And nothing illegal, apparently — except the IRS leak.

      1. So, they literally found nothing.

        1. But they figuratively found innuendo and evil intent. That’s all we need for national “news”, right?

          1. As long as it involves “orange man bad” then yes, unfortunately.

          2. he’s running a large real estate business and has a lot of debt! he could be tempted to sell the USA down the river if only someone will promise him some cash!

        2. The IRS leak was plenty illegal.

          1. Good point.

    3. I’ve seen a lot of people calling for him to go to jail for this tax avoidance, indicating a lot of people don’t know the difference between avoidance, evasion and avoision.

      1. You are under arrest for tax avoidance. You claimed your children as dependents which reduced your tax liability. I also see you took the standard deduction. You are going to prison for a long time.

        1. 3 felonies a day, baby!

      2. People may have said that. You can find people (on Twitter or wherever) who have said just about anything.

        But, it is important to note that the New York Times itself didn’t say that Trump has broken any tax laws or avoided taxes. Their analysis takes the returns at face value, and is focused on what it says about Trump’s amount of debt relevant to his income. The takeaway is he may have serious cash flow problems that are going to hit a wall in about four years.

        1. Youre really invested in this non story.

          1. You are peculiarly not interested in considering any bad news about Trump.

            1. It helps that there wasn’t any.

            2. What bad news WK? Come on, spit it out.
              He operated at a loss for a couple of years? He has debt on his books just like every other fucking company ever?

              This isn’t just like spending to much on a car.

              1. “What bad news WK? Come on, spit it out.”

                ORANGE MAN BAD!!!!!
                That’s WK’s life, right there.

            3. The news isn’t bad.

        2. “Their analysis takes the returns at face value,”

          What returns?

          1. “The New York Times has obtained tax-return data extending over more than two decades for Mr. Trump and the hundreds of companies that make up his business organization, including detailed information from his first two years in office.”

            Are you trying to use their using the phrase, “tax-return data”, to mean they don’t have the actual tax returns but only impartial data. The very next sentence in the article implies that is not the case: “It does not include his personal returns for 2018 or 2019.”

            1. ““The New York Times has obtained tax-return data

              Keep reading that until you understand that it didn’t answer his question.

            2. “The very next sentence in the article implies”

              1) no it doesn’t

              2) Considering they outright said they didnt have the returns, your self serving reading is pretty funny

              1. They said they didn’t have the returns for two years, implying they do have the returns for the other years they discuss. Duh.

                1. They said they didn’t have DATA for two years.

                  Reading comprehension not your strong suit?

                2. “it” = data you illiterate rube

            3. The very next sentence in the article implies that is not the case: “It does not include his personal returns for 2018 or 2019.”

              Nothing there supports your claim of implication in any way.

            4. Actually, your sentence implies the opposite, when the Times uses “it” there.

            5. “The New York Times has obtained tax-return data extending over more than two decades for Mr. Trump and the hundreds of companies that make up his business organization, including detailed information from his first two years in office.”

              No they haven’t. Prove me wrong. One citation that isn’t the NYT or someone repeating the NYT.

              1. Given that the NYT allegedly has info on the compensation of employees, perhaps they should sue. You cannot claim any actual news value in the pay info of random people.

  3. Just finished reading the big Trump Taxes NYT piece but I came away from it feeling like the federal tax code is the real villain here…

    You would, you libertarian.

    1. The tax system is a villain, but not because some people pay small tax bills.

  4. Trump’s Tiny Tax Bill

    Okay, Trump cultists, go ahead and say it:

    FAKE NEWS! THE CON MAN WOULD NEVER LIE TO US!

    1. No Considering most of his income is investments his income taxes are irrelevant. This is a hit piece for people who don’t understand finance. And here you are proving that point.

      1. So explain his finances. Why does the carpenter, teacher, truck drive pay taxes and he doesn’t? Even investor pay taxes. Warren Buffet doesn’t say he doesn’t pay taxes, Buffet just notes that his secretary pays a higher rate.

        1. Is it true Trump doesn’t pay taxes, ever? Do you have sources?

          1. “So explain his finances. Why does the carpenter, teacher, truck drive pay taxes and he doesn’t?”

            We know M4e is stupid, we still don’t know HOW stupid he is.
            Hint: Losses are deductible, and that’s all your getting without a BIGGLY payment for my professional advice, asshole TDS victim.

          2. “Is it true Trump doesn’t pay taxes, ever? Do you have sources?”

            Harry Reid proved you don’t need sources. “It worked, didn’t it?”

        2. “Why does the carpenter, teacher, truck drive pay taxes and he doesn’t? ”

          The laws passed by the government you want running things.

          In this case, Obama.

          1. And Biden. Biden has had his hand in the tax code going back almost 50 years.

        3. Haha retard doesn’t understand how income tax works!

        4. And how many federal benefit receivers do both Buffet and his secretary support?

          1. Buffett only takes $100K as annual “income”, but then he goes on to whine that his taxes aren’t high enough!
            Fortunately, we’re spared that sort of blatant hypocrisy from Trump.

        5. Was the cost of pulling permits accounted for in the NYT reporting?

        6. Buffet games the system, taking a low paid income while most of his actual income is investments and perks, which ade taxed differently. Exactly what I said in response to Buttplug and Trump. You’re example of Buffet just reinforces my initial point rather than disputes it. Moron.

        7. That Trump hasn’t paid much taxes isn’t the worrisome thing. The big problem (if the Times article is accurate) is that Trump has a huge amount of debt due in the next four years and, apparently, little income or net losses.

          1. No. It isnt. Man. Really invested on this.

            Do you even understand what asset leveraged loans are?

            1. She doesn’t understand shit, because Dee is just a squawking bird.

          2. OMFG HOW do you keep getting this wrong

          3. Only if he can’t pay them, which isn’t a foregone conclusion.

            1. And like most ranchers I finance and operate on debt, usually due annually. I buy hay on debt and cattle on debt and equipment on debt. Working on short term debt is normal for business owners. If you looked at even “rich” farmers and ranchers, you would say that they are bleeding money (and you may be right for some) because they all carry high short term debt obligations (operating loans are generally only one year obligations). They also tend to take out more debt than they need, to cover emergencies. If they don’t use it they pay it back.
              I doubt real estate is any different. During slow periods, recessions etc, hospitalities probably operate at a loss and use short term debt to cover that loss, with the knowledge that there will be up periods to pay that debt.

          4. Don’t worry he’ll get the Saudi’s to donate to his foundation when he leaves office.

            1. This gets to the heart of why we should care about whether he is deeply in debt, and why voters should demand he be more open about his finances.

              1. No, TDS gets to the heart of your life.

            2. No, that’s the Klinton game.

        8. And Warren buffet is free to write a check to the Federal government.

        9. Because they are W2 employees paid a salary instead of an owner of various and sundry businesses and investments that are each subject to corporate teturns and capital gains – but only in years where that involves a large cash realized windfall

          Any more stupid questions?

        10. You would say less dumb things if you went to irs.gov and looked up tax rates by quintile.

        11. The article even stated he paid millions in taxes that was put towards future taxation.

        12. Doesn’t pay taxes? Have you already forgotten Rachel Maddow’s big “We have him now!!!” moment when she breathlessly went over his 2005 return on MSNBC (because they weren’t smart enough to review it beforehand)…only to find that he paid something like $38 million in fed income tax (not counting all other forms of taxes he paid) in that year alone?

        13. Operating debt and reinvestment end up in the accounts receivables of vendors and employees paychecks. It’s called capitalism.

    2. You came to a libertarian website to whine about “tax avoidance”

      1. “You came to a libertarian website to whine about “tax avoidance.”

        This is the funniest part of the whole non-scandal. I thought we were the group that hated federal taxes, and taxation in general, and saying that Trump was able to shrink his federal income tax exposure is supposed to piss us off? These aren’t the discussion boards for The Nation

        1. Trump has heroically avoided immoral taxes!! 4 more years!!!

    3. A low tax bill for a billionaire is a sign of genius.

      1. A low tax bill for a billionaire is a sign of genius.

        It’s a sign of good lawyers.

        1. Which is another sign of genius.

        2. Tax lawyers and accountants, not ambulance chasers.

    4. Low taxes in some years, because of losses.

      If you weren’t an idiot you’d know that is common in the world of business.

    5. FAKE NEWS AND TURD IS HERE TO WHINE ABOUT IT!
      Don’t you have some 12-year-old to diddle, you slimy pile of shit?

    6. Stories like this are fun, because all the dipshit leftists prove how economically illiterate they are.

      Stick to kiddie porn dildo.

      1. all the dipshit leftists prove how economically illiterate they are

        Ever notice that people who are economically (and historically) literate tend not to be dipshit leftists?

  5. The walls are closing in…

    1. 2017 – walls closing…
      2018 – closing more….
      2019 – just about there….
      2020 – this will close them for sure…
      2021 – Uh, what happened?

      1. The walls are at Planck distance by now yet they are still closing, noooo…

        1. They distance is cut in half every year!! President Zeno!

  6. “The president has frequently pointed to his far-flung hotels, golf courses and resorts as evidence of his success as a developer and businessman. Yet these properties have been been draining money.””

    Balance sheets and Income Statements? Mon deux! This is completely common. That doesn’t mean these companies are “failing” any more than Amazon is failing despite never returning a single nickle back to investors as profit.

    1. The Con Man’s properties are bleeding cash. He is at risk of losing them due to a personal guarantee on loans he owes.

      His big success was as a Realtiy TV host where he earned over $400 million during its run.

      He really is a shitty business person. NY banks wouldn’t lend to him. He is a successful con man though.

      1. “The Con Man’s properties are bleeding cash”

        sure.

        1. Golf course valuations have crashed and NY city hotels are vacant you moron.

          The Dotard is a net debtor. And now he is larding the country up with trillions in new deficits.

          You were conned. Just get over it.

          1. “Golf course valuations have crashed and NY city hotels are vacant you moron”

            We know. It’s why we are laughing at you for somehow thinking it is novel for Trump.

            1. In Shreek’s defense, he’s a simpleton.

              1. Watch it! Simpletons can get pissed!

            2. Missing where he said that Trump’s debt is a novel situation.

              1. hi retard he blamed it on Trump being a bad businessman

          2. Gee hotels are vacant when no one is traveling because of COVID panic. Who would have thought. Same goes for golf courses.

            1. the partial tax return data in the NYT story is from 2016 and 2017 and earlier though. 2020 is going to be much worse.

            2. You just restated what Buttplug said.

              1. No he implied it was because of bad business decisions. Not even fucking close to what I said.

      2. “He really is a shitty business person. ”

        “he earned over $400 million”

        1. LOL

        2. That makes all the Hollywood types that earns billions better business people then.

          1. From “shitty” to “A handful of people in the world are better” in one post.

            1. Media Matters really should ask plug for their money back.
              He’s terrible at this.

              1. He doesn’t have any money.
                By his own admission, he’s a middle-aged day-trader who’s not good at it, with coke and kiddie-porn habits.
                Loser with a capital “L”.

                1. He is hunter biden?

            2. Buttplugger must be French to retreat from a position that quickly.

              1. And like the French he has to retreat because he decided to defend an indefensible position only to be outflanked.

          2. Maybe not, but “successful” Hollywood types certainly deserve to be moral spokespeople.

        3. It is possible to be an excellent entertainer while also being a terrible businessman or terrible with money in general. Look at Johnny Depp.

          1. Look at a lot of professional athletes.

        4. And he owes more than $400 million.

          1. and the valuation of his assets?

            You are really dying on this hill arent you.

            1. “We really got Trump this time”

              He has to, it justifies him.

            2. The article talks about his assets.

              1. It doesn’t even come close to estimating the asset side of the ledger dummy.

                1. You keep using words and terms that The White Bird doesn’t understand. It’s why she appears so stupid. Well, one of the reasons.

              2. I notice your answer doesn’t have a number in it

      3. “The Con Man’s properties are bleeding cash. ”

        Citation please.

        You are getting ahead of yourself. If I buy a property and rent it, and then take that rental money to renovate it, I make no income, because the revenues were re-invested. It is the same reason Amazon has never shown a profit. Any revenues they made shipping you widgets they turned around to invest in their cloud business.

        This is the difference between “Income Investing” (where you invest in companies that are undervalued, but paying a dividend) and “Growth Investing” (where you invest in companies, never expecting to pull income, because you expect its overall value to increase until you sell the stock for a gain). Income/Value investment has not been making money for around 10 years, while Growth investment has been going nuts, largely due to this country’s propensity to dump liquidity into the market which eventually pumps up the balance sheet of public companies.

        1. The New York Times article. Go read it before you ask “Citation please”.

          1. The new york times article nowhere says he is bleeding cash dummy. Thats your inference based off of ignorance of business cash flows.

          2. An unsourced opinion piece isn’t a source.

          3. You are a certifiable idiot, and not a libertarian

      4. He is a successful con man though.

        How well do you sleep at night knowing that con man is about to appoint a 3rd Supreme Court justice?

        Marxist dipshits lose sleep over this stuff. Life is good.

        1. It’s not like Trump’s con man credentials rub off on Coney Barrett.

          1. Wow. You really said this.

            1. He wishes he could rub off on Coney Barrett.

              Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more!

      5. No, no, haven’t you seen all the self-congratulatory comments from the CACCLs on this page that they understand business and debt. No possibility acknowledged anywhere that a business can take on too much debt.

        1. Your ignorance is your problem not ours.

        2. I am not a CACCL, but I am an accounting professional, and I still think you are full of shit. First and foremost, personal tax returns are completely separate from C-corporation tax returns. Without both, you (and the NYT) are just whistling out of your ass.

        3. No possibility acknowledged anywhere that a business can take on too much debt.

          Acknowledging that something is possible is very different from asserting that it has happened in a specific case. I’d think anyone with an IQ higher than whatever it was I scraped off the bottom of my shoe this morning would understand that.

    2. I’m sure ENB will be doing an expose on Hollywood tax avoidance schemes next week.

  7. So nothing about RUSSIA!!! in the tax returns?

    1. The article does discuss income related to Russia. For example:

      While the tax records revealed no previously unknown financial connection — and, for the most part, lack the specificity required to do so — they did shed new light on the money behind the 2013 Miss Universe pageant in Moscow, a subject of enduring intrigue because of subsequent investigations into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election.

      The records show that the pageant was the most profitable Miss Universe during Mr. Trump’s time as co-owner, and that it generated a personal payday of $2.3 million — made possible, at least in part, by the Agalarov family, who would later help set up the infamous 2016 meeting between Trump campaign officials seeking “dirt” on Mrs. Clinton and a Russian lawyer connected to the Kremlin.

      In August, the Senate Intelligence Committee released a report that looked extensively into the circumstances of the Moscow pageant, and revealed that as recently as February, investigators subpoenaed the Russian singer Emin Agalarov, who was involved in planning it. Mr. Agalarov’s father, Aras, a billionaire who boasts of close ties to Mr. Putin, was Mr. Trump’s partner in the event.

      While the tax records revealed no previously unknown financial connection — and, for the most part, lack the specificity required to do so — they did shed new light on the money behind the 2013 Miss Universe pageant in Moscow, a subject of enduring intrigue because of subsequent investigations into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election.

      The records show that the pageant was the most profitable Miss Universe during Mr. Trump’s time as co-owner, and that it generated a personal payday of $2.3 million — made possible, at least in part, by the Agalarov family, who would later help set up the infamous 2016 meeting between Trump campaign officials seeking “dirt” on Mrs. Clinton and a Russian lawyer connected to the Kremlin.

      In August, the Senate Intelligence Committee released a report that looked extensively into the circumstances of the Moscow pageant, and revealed that as recently as February, investigators subpoenaed the Russian singer Emin Agalarov, who was involved in planning it. Mr. Agalarov’s father, Aras, a billionaire who boasts of close ties to Mr. Putin, was Mr. Trump’s partner in the event.

      1. Its intriguing that an event that took place in Russia had tangential connections to Russian businesses? It was a one time thing dumbass.

        1. Ra’s wrote: “So nothing about RUSSIA!!! in the tax returns?”

          I quoted where the article talked about Russia, in tax returns.

          1. So you’re saying you don’t understand what he wrote.

        2. I didn’t claim that the passage I quoted was some kind of “gotcha” of Trump.

          1. You just posted it as if it was important when it wasn’t.

            1. She’s really embarrassing herself today. I’m chuckling at her.

      2. I refuse to believe a Miss Universe Pageant held in Russia involved any Russians.

        1. Russians working on a Russian event in Russia. White Knight has Trump’s number now.

          While the tax records revealed no previously unknown financial connection
          “Damn!!!!”

  8. It’s hard to care right now for a lot of reasons, but:

    The 2019 Uniform Crime Reports just posted.

    The takeaway:

    • Murder up baaaarely–by 0.3% (51 cases)
    • Rape (-3%) and robbery (-5%) down
    • Agg assault up–by 1%

    • All prop crimes down, tot pop down 4%.

    Thank you, Mister President.

    1. But can we see these stats by specific cities?

      1. That’s racist.

        1. Thank you.

    2. Apparently a couple months of looting and rioting can’t make up for several months of lockdown.

      1. the data are from last year. 2020 will be much worse.

        1. Yeah. The property crimes difference from 2019 to 2020 is going to be insane.

  9. https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/09/24/cook-childrens-alarming-rise-suicide-patients/?fbclid=IwAR0C3dhCMk6jjVo23aRh5doktpjBmPCfWJew_JuaIZMUEjgzyzJ04RxnTK0

    A North Texas children’s hospital said Thursday it has seen an “alarming” rise in suicide patients, especially in August, as school districts continued to debate over the return to in-person learning.

    Doctors at Cook Children’s Medical Center in Fort Worth said they admitted juvenile suicide patients at a rate of almost one per day in August.

    The hospital admitted 29 children last month after they attempted suicide. For the year, the hospital said it has seen 192 of these patients, which is more than double the number they admitted during the same period five years ago.

    “We see kids every day, telling us they’re struggling. They wish they can go back to their normal lives,” said Dr. Kia Carter, medical director of psychiatry at Cook Children’s.

    Carter said the delayed return to school — and return to normal life — is leaving some children with a sense of hopelessness.

    Social media often fills that lack of an in-person connection, but Carter pointed out it also means children never get a break from social pressures during a year when social divide and picking a side has been constant.

    “It goes to that fear of not being included, or not fitting in, or not being a part of something, and not having a strong enough support system where they feel confident that if something does happen and they’re not part of the in thing, that they’ll be okay,” Carter said.

    The vast majority of the patients Cook Children’s is treating have been young girls between 13 and 15 years old.

    1. Lockdown ‘could kill 75,000 over five years’ – that’s the OFFICIAL projection of non-COVID deaths caused by missed cancer diagnoses, cancelled operations and health impacts of a recession. The virus death toll? 42,000
      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8774141/Coronavirus-UK-Lockdown-kill-75-000-thats-OFFICIAL-projection.html

      1. Remember that many people want to say that we’re undercounting COVID deaths because we should be looked at all “excess deaths” and counting those as COVID related.

        Which they sort of are, if the lockdown is a symptom of COVID, but the lockdown is really a symptom of mania.

        1. Yep. They are bad policy deaths, and those deaths we can actually PREVENT, not just delay like the corona deaths.

    2. We can sacrifice a few teens to save grandma.

      1. Think of it as extra late term abortions.

        1. My body my choice.

    3. those will count as COVID-19 excess deaths.

      1. Should have read the replies before I made my own reply. Yeah, there’s people who want to count any death as a COVID-related death to pad those numbers.

  10. London will finally let Uber operate within its city limits again.

    London hackney clout is falling down.

  11. California will start requiring prisons to house transgender inmates in the prison that matches their gender identity.

    This is in no way a recipe for disaster.

    1. California’s enlightened progressives make a mistake? Perish the thought.

      Let me light a kerosene lamp so I can read you all of their successes.

      1. Sorry, kerosene lamps contribute to global warming and will give you cancer.

        1. you’re right, we’ll have to go back to whale oil lamps.
          oh, wait.

          1. GREAT idea! Whale oil is RENEWABLE, after all!

    2. How many biological female prisoners are going to be raped or otherwise assaulted as a result?

      Also, how will a prisoner’s transgenderism be determined for this purpose? A medical certification or the prisoner’s mere claim to be of the opposite gender? In the past arguments the transgender activists only find the latter acceptable as a definition to assert a right to be treated as the opposite gender.

      The transgender rights movement’s ideology is contradictory but based on the notion that human sexual dimorphism is not real, or least not real enough to matter for anything.

    3. If I lived in California and had to go to prison for some reason, I’d definitely decide to be a woman. Lesbian prison sex is one of the best types of lesbian sex. At least in the movies I’ve seen.

      1. Orange man is the new black man.

    4. you have the right to remain silent. you have the right to an attorney. you have the right to be housed in the women’s prison if you prefer…

  12. https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1310383750040219649
    BREAKING:
    @IlhanOmar
    connected cash-for-ballots harvesting scheme EXPOSED

    “Money is the king in everything”; harvester boasts harvesting HUNDREDS of 2020 absentee ballots ILLEGALLY! “Numbers do not lie…these here are all absentee ballots…my car is full…”

    1. “I work very hard for my masters”!

    2. some people stole something

  13. OK, so NOW I finally understand WHY it is, that the evil Mexican sub-humans are gonna have to pay for that wall to keep the evil Mexican sub-humans OUT of our pristine-clean lands!

    It’s because Der TrumpfenFuhrer and It’s Minions don’t feel like paying their taxes!

    1. Do you feel like paying your taxes, or do you do so because otherwise there’d be a gun to your head?

      1. Point well taken!

        WHERE is the gun to the heads of the rich and self-styled oh-so-important, like Leona Helmsley, “taxes are for the little people”? And now Trump as well! It seems that we’re all equal, but Leona and Trump are more equal than the rest of us! “Who will police the police”? Right now, it looks like NO ONE will, if you have enough political power!

        And Trump, who minds our business in endless, unconstitutional ways… Like controlling our freedom of speech, by telling us which software apps we may, and may not, use… THIS busybody, when caught with Its hands in the cookie jar, is defended by Trumpistas, saying, “That was EVIL, what someone did, in spilling the beans in an UNAUTHORIZED manner! They violated Trump’s precious PRIVACY!”

        Sunlight is an EXCELLENT disinfectant! Bring on the sunlight!

        1. Yeah, those deceptively clever 1 percenters, who still pay about 30% of all federal taxes. If we could only get them to pay their fair share we could all have free cake and ice cream and healthcare.

          1. “…those deceptively clever 1 percenters, who still pay about 30% of all federal taxes…”

            This clearly excludes the Con Artist in Chief!

            1. You really shouldn’t be so jealous of his CPA.

            2. Spaz is in the market for some tax help, but I doubt any competent help will tolerate his idiocy.
              Fuck off and die, spaz.

            3. Please refer to the tax year and line item of his tax crime.

              1. We’d have a LOT easier time of doing that, if Trump hadn’t chosen to BREAK a long, long tradition of POTUS candidates voluntarily revealing their tax returns!

                Dear Leader has things He wants to HIDE from the voters and taxpayers? Oh My!!!

                1. The IRS has it all and zilch.

                2. Dear Leader has things He wants to HIDE from the voters and taxpayers? Oh My!!!

                  Ja “If you have nothing to hide…” is one of my favorites too!

                  1. If you’ve got shit to hide, hide it from me all day and every day, so long as you’re not planning mass murder or other obvious, evil crap hazardous to society, and I am totally fine with it.

                    Do NOT expect me to vote for you to exercise POWER over me, in that case, though! Asking for some sunlight as disinfectant, is NOT asking for a bunch!

                    1. Of course, I too justify my stance “If you’ve got nothing to hide…”!

                    2. Der TrumpfenFuhrer is LEO in chief of the USA, and He has done NOTHING to give us a WEE tad more “lung flute freedoms”! As LEO in Chief, He apparently AGREES that we MUST seek permission first, before blowing upon a cheap plastic flute!

                      And in the face of this, you think me (and tons of other voters) to be NAZIs, in expecting Him to reveal his tax returns, in order to persuade us to vote for Him?

                      Stay ye SAFE from the flute police! See ye http://www.churchofsqrls.com/DONT_DO_THIS/ !!!

                    3. Agreed, “If he has norhing to hide…”

                    4. Fuck off, Sqrlsy.

                    5. “so long as you’re not planning mass murder”

                      You mean like…HITLER!?

                3. “We’d have a LOT easier time of doing that, if Trump hadn’t chosen to BREAK a long, long tradition of POTUS candidates voluntarily revealing their tax returns!”

                  Then why are you pretending to know what his tax returns contain?

                  1. Because I read the news!

                    A HUGE political problem right now is simple “confirmation bias”… All that anyone and everyone tells me about MY favorite super-hero, goes in one ear, and right out the other! Right up to and including Holocaust denial from ONE of my favorite assholes here, = Rob Misek! Then on the other hand, super-hero-lovers will believe EVERYTHING GOOD that they hear about said super-hero, even if it comes from the drunk under the bridge… To include “oh, but his motives were good”.

                    1. Oh fuck SQRLSY is tilted again

                    2. You read the news? That’s how you know the content of Trump’s tax returns?

                    3. Yes, and I read some history books, and that’s how I know that the Holocaust was very, VERY real!

                    4. Fuck off, Sqrlsy.

                4. “We’d have a LOT easier time of doing that, if Trump hadn’t chosen to BREAK a long, long tradition of POTUS candidates voluntarily revealing their tax returns!

                  Dear Leader has things He wants to HIDE from the voters and taxpayers? Oh My!!!”

                  …because, as we’re seeing here, tax returns show little and morons think they reveal a lot more than they do.

                  1. “…because, as we’re seeing here, tax returns show little…”

                    Only in the eyes of the Trumptard echo chambers!

                    For the rest of us, it shows that Der TrumpfenFuher is more equal than the rest of us, just like Leona Helmsley!

                    1. nah it doesn’t

        2. Fuck off, Sqrlsy.

        3. Imagine hating Trump so much that you have to stan for taxes to a bunch of Libertarians.

      2. Libertarians for taxation seems to be a thing here.

        1. WHO is gonna pay for your Big, Beautiful Wall, JesseSPAZ? AND all of your cops, to smash the heads of “Marxist” BLM protestors? If you have a BETTER idea, BETTER than taxes, to pay for the doings of Government Almighty, by all means, let’s hear all about them!

          1. Fuck off, Sqrlsy.

          2. So you’re a thief.

          3. The 1% as they do every year. You are free to go to the IRS website and look up effective tax rates by quintile. Im sure you can fit it in between shit eating.

            Some of you are really proving your ignorance today.

    2. Mexico will pay for the wall when the American medical and retirement systems collapse. To keep the Americans out who can’t afford to retire here.

  14. Why conservative men may be attracted to cuckolding, according to a researcher who studies the kink
    https://www.insider.com/why-conservative-men-are-attracted-to-cuckolding-sex-kinks-2020-9

    1. Ley gave the example of a man who identified as a white Nazi and wrote a letter to him. He told Ley his greatest sexual fantasy would be his wife cheating on him with a Jewish person or person of color, because it was something he was taught to hate and fear.

      On the sexual flip-side, this would explain why so many feminists appear to be sexually aroused by components of the Handmaid’s Tale.

      1. Which is something you just totally made up.

        1. Every time you try and call us out for poking fun of your cult, and every time we have cites demonstrating just how fucked up you guys really are.
          https://www.thecut.com/2019/09/margaret-atwood-talks-sexy-handmaids-tale-costume.html

                  1. Change the last word to porn to make the link work

                    1. https://www.tor.com/2017/04/24/the-handmaids-tale-movie-review/

                      “How the 1990 Handmaid’s Tale Film Became an Erotic Thriller”

                    2. “He’s already dead!”

        2. Your performance in this particular Roundup is one of the biggest Ls in Reason Comments history

  15. Police officers in riot gear arrested peaceful protesters in New York City last night for having “gathered on the sidewalk and a pedestrian island on Hudson Street” after police told them not to.

    Hopefully not before the peaceful protestors were able to convert at least some of the outdoor diners to the Raised Fist Church of Forced Wokedness.

    1. No room for social distancing on a traffic island. Better start tasing them!

  16. The Slate article is the most insane thing you will see on the internet today
    https://notthebee.com/article/the-slate-article-is-the-most-insane-thing-you-will-see-on-the-internet-today

    My husband and I have a frequent disagreement on our 3-year-old and her love for dresses and all things pink! For the first two years of her life, she was constantly mistaken for a boy because she wore gender-neutral clothes.

    1. Because magical thinking trumps biology and millions of years of evolution.

      1. It’s the hottest fashion accessory to have a trans kid.

        1. However, our daughter adores the color pink, insists on wearing dresses, and is currently obsessed with accessories. I am fine with this, though I hope it will be a phase.
          She should have passed the cis phase by now.

    2. My daughter lives fishing, watches football with me and can’t wait to be old enough to go hunting. She raises goats and helps feed the cattle. She loves bottle feeding orphan lambs and calves. She also loves wearing dresses and ear rings and braiding her hair. She loves princess movies and her horse. She also will wrestle with her brothers and play cops and robbers and gets mad when the oldest boy wants to play civil war and he makes her be a nurse (because he is very anal about historical accuracy). She wants to be an entomologist and loves catching insects to study. She wants a preying mantis for Christmas. She often does chores in cut offs and muck boots (it’s a country thing I guess because I see a lot of girls do the same around here). She will play superhero and GI Joe and also play Barbie. Just let kids be themselves, you’ll be surprised at what they end up being.

      1. Give slate credit:

        Without saying it intentionally, it seems as though your version of gender-neutral is casting a negative light on traditional femininity as opposed to the ways of thinking that prescribe it as mandatory or inherent.

        1. Good for them. It is like boys who aren’t allowed to play with you guns still find a way to play guns, often to the horror of their ‘enlightened’ parents.

      2. It’s the biggest mystery to me why “progressives” are pushing for physically and medically changing one’s gender to match historical gender roles, rather than questioning and dismantling those gender roles and asserting that it’s okay to be a feminine male or a masculine female.

    3. The Slate article is the most insane thing you will see on the internet today

      On what days is that not the case?

  17. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/14/police-officers-knowingly-neglected-girls-exploited-grooming/

    An Asian grooming gang was free to roam the streets and abuse young girls because police officers were told to “find other ethnicities” to investigate, a detective has claimed.

    At least 57 young girls are thought to have been exploited by a paedophile network of around 100 suspected perpetrators based in south Manchester in the 2000s. The gang, mainly comprised of Asian men, hooked their victims on drugs, groomed, and sexually abused them. One girl, aged 15, died after being injected with heroin by a 50-year-old man.

    Following a two-year inquiry, commissioned by Greater Manchester mayor Andy Burnham, into the historic failings of police and social workers, a report was published today which concluded that vulnerable girls in care were groomed and abused in “plain sight”.

    The report found multiple failings at the hands of GMP, including how fears over race relations appear to have played a part in senior police thinking when tackling grooming gangs comprised of predominantly Asian men.

    1. This was such a fucked up situation, and I’m seeing no changes that won’t prevent it from happening in the UK again.

      1. Not true. I saw a video today of a big police bloke knocking out an old woman on the street. She wasn’t and asian sex groomer but I’m pretty sure she wasn’t wearing a mask.

        1. That’s what’s really important.

        2. She didn’t wear a mask…
          Has anyone told Tony?

      2. They could start by calling the perps Pakistani instead of Asian.

    2. Every time I see a UK or European article about the latest abuse by miscellaneous “Asian men” i think about how passed i would be If I was a non-Muslim Asian man in the UK and had to be made to feel guilty by association because the more accurate Muslim is somehow more racist

  18. Totally sane

    Trump’s taxes show he’s a national security threat
    https://twitter.com/i/events/1310552346745868293

    1. If Trump forgein money are a national threat what could Biden’s be, his whole family is owned by not Just the Ukrainians but China and probably Russia as well

  19. Now that The New York Times has gone and done it for him…

    The Times won’t stand for a president who sues to keep an official record private.

    1. Let see the writer and editors’ tax returns.

      1. ^this

        Everyone who wants to talk shit should have all their tax and financial data published, including people like white knight

    2. +18 minutes.

      Nice, Fist. Actually LOL’d

  20. Former Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale hospitalized after threatening to hurt himself

    Heard from him at hospital “I FUCKING HELPED WHO WIN THE WHITE HOUSE?”

    1. This is what passes for comedy on pedo sites?

      1. It’s what passes for ‘worthy of comment[‘ to turd. And he wonders why his dog doesn’t like him.

  21. Spreading a large loss over several years is not a new thing, nor is it ‘cheating’. You could make the argument that it shouldn’t be allowed, but it currently is.

    Speaking of cheating, how did the Times get these records?

    1. Pay no attention to the Federal crime behind that curtain.

      1. Which one? No crime it is literally following the law.

        1. Think Thomas is referring to the unlawful dissemination of Trump’s income tax information, SM.

        2. ????

          “how did the Times get these records?”

          1. Okay my bad.

            1. Well, I wasn’t exactly clear which element I was responding to either.

      2. If only the IRS had access to his federal income tax returns!!!!

        1. Never mind…I commented before I should have.

    2. it should be allowed. Usually the carry forward losses are from business investments. Growing business is a good thing.

    3. Agree with Jesse here. You have to let businesses carry over losses. Otherwise you’re penalizing any business that has a cycle longer than 365 days or that plans to invest in itself.

      Imagine two businesses. One has $1M in expenses in 2020 with no sales. But then has no expenses and $1M in sales in 2021. The other business has $500k expenses and $500k sales in both 2020 and 2021. Both have done substantially the same thing, only structured differently. But if the first business can’t carry over losses then it will pay a ton of tax in 2021, while business 2 pays no tax in either year.

    4. Probably direct from Letitia James’ office.

  22. So I read the NYT piece..

    It basically says nothing Trump did, if the returns are true, was illegal. He simply took advantage of carry forward losses. He took special advantage of an Obama era change that took 2 years of losses and increased the coverage to 4.5 years. So trump merely took advantage of the tax code that many real estate investors took care of… where is the scandal?

    Likewise the story admits Trump has been under audit and found no Russian dollars going into his account. So… where’s the scandal?

    The only scandal I see is the leaking of confidential IRS documents which is a felony. So weird that the media is attacking non illegal activity while ignoring the whole felony from the leaks.

    1. JesseSPAZ agrees with Leona Helmsley, who said that “taxes are for the little people”. Leona Helmsley got jailed for being a conniving rip-off artist. WHEN are we gonna jail our Conniving Rip-Off Artist in Chief?

      What would JesseSPAZ say if these were Joe Biden’s tax returns?

      1. Fuck off, Sqrlsy.

        1. Hi Leona! Good to hear from you!

          Just to be sure… You DID get the Love Poem to you, from The Donald, right? Just in case you did NOT, see below:

          Mash Letter from The Donald to Leona Helmsley

          Roses are red,
          Violets are blue,
          Won’t you come here,
          And join my crew?
          I like to collect babes, as if they were Cocker Spaniels,
          You’d look quite nice, right next to Stormy Daniels!
          “Taxes are for the little people”
          For a campaign slogan, it sounds GREAT!
          Won’t you help me fool the greedy sheeple?
          To their suffering, you and I, we could masturbate!
          Brad Parscale, my old campaign pal,
          Wants to kill himself, what style!
          Won’t you stay with me a while,
          And be my campaign gal?

          1. Fuck off, Sqrlsy.

      2. You know all you’re doing is proving you don’t understand economics at all right?

        1. Economics and politics go hand in hand. We have to fund Government Almighty through SOME method (freedom-lovers DO want Government Almighty kept to a minimum, or course).

          Economics is NOT going to work properly, w/o a properly funded government, to defend our rights against pigs like Leona Helmsley, and now Trump, as well! Leona Helmsley was punished… Now it’s Trump’s turn to be punished! At the VERY least, by being voted OUT by honest taxpayers!

          1. So you’re a thief.

          2. Fuck off, Sqrlsy.

          3. The tax code is progressive shit for mouth. The irs publishes year effective tax rates. The shit eating has really made its way to your brain.

            Again. You’re just proving yourself a moron here.

            1. “The tax code is progressive…”

              Except for slime-ball con-artist cheaters like Leona Helmsley and The Donald!

              1. Spaz thinks deducting losses is “cheating”.
                Spaz is stupid that way. And many other ways
                Fuck off and die.

              2. Fuck off, Sqrlsy.

          4. Economics and politics go hand in hand.

            Yeah, you are not going to get away with that completely idiotic remark on a libertarian website. Modern politics is almost exclusively the science of bypassing and ignoring the science of economics. People getting what they want despite the fact that it is a horrible idea.

            1. “People getting what they want despite the fact that it is a horrible idea.”

              I agree with that part! People voting for the Con Artist In Chief, on the theory that His past history of ripping others off, makes Him qualified to rip others off, on a global scale, for the benefit of us GOOD Americans, is a PRIME example of that today! Let’s pussy-grab ALL of the non-Americans, and PARTY like there’s no tomorrow! They will NEVER think of pussy-grabbing us right back!

              1. Fuck off and die, spaz.

              2. I agree with that part!

                That part was prefaced with calling your remark idiotic, so I am glad you agree.

                The rest of your gibberish is a perfect demonstration of the failure of the public education system in regards to economic literacy. I could get the exact same garbage from any Antifa thug peacefully breaking the windows of minority shop owners.

                1. And YOUR Dear Leader has repeated lied blatantly, saying that tariffs aren’t taxes! If He is your economics Hero, then I am glad that there are a LOT of folks around, who are a lot smarter than that!

                  1. Fuck off, Sqrlsy.

                  2. Fallacy upon fallacy. Don’t pretend to an education you clearly don’t have.

                    And hey, dipshit, if you want to loosely interpret the word ‘taxes’ so that tariffs are taxes then permits, fees and fines are all taxes. How much in do you think Trump paid in development fees and permits over the years? Let alone the bribes he had to pay. I watched the City of Portland demand a 10% carveout of a $25 million property in order to get the zoning approval started. That donation (bribe) ends up being tax deductible.

                    But if I know the system is corrupt, I must also think Trump is a hero?

                    If you limit yourself to ranting incoherently, you might just come off as crazy and not stupid.

                  3. The Constitution agrees with him

      3. So you rhink Obama’s IRS is letting him off?

        L O L

    2. Who says his returns prove illegal activity?

      All it proves is that he is a lying con artist who isn’t worth anything close to what he says he is.

      1. Yeah man, the Con Artist In Chief sold itself to its voters with the constant LIE of, “You CAN pussy-grab ALL of the people, ALL of the time, and NONE of them will EVER think of pussy-grabbing YOU right back! See, that’s what I did, and it made Me and Mine, filthy RICH! I can do the same thing in order to MAGA, and make YOU, the voters, RICH! Go ahead and BURN that candle at both ends of the stick!”

        Partly, of course, by stiffing your creditors. Were it not for MUCH smarter people surrounding Der TrumpfenFuhrer, It would be doing the SAME thing to the “full faith and credit” of the USA by partially stiffing the lenders, who are foolish enough to loan money to a USA headed up by Trump!

        https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/07/us/politics/donald-trumps-idea-to-cut-national-debt-get-creditors-to-accept-less.html

        Let’s hope that more stupid, greedy, short-sighted voters will now FINALLY wake up!

        1. Fuck off, Sqrlsy

        2. “…Der TrumpfenFuhrer…”

          Q: Why do assholes with TDS spend all their time making up nicknames which embarrass 1st-grade kids?
          A :The kids are smarter than they are.

      2. Tax bills are not an indication of wealth.

      3. All it proves is that he is a lying con artist who isn’t worth anything close to what he says he is.

        Trump is a con-man, a loud-mouthed ignoramus, an egotistical braggart, a thin-skinned bully, an absolute pig of a human being.

        And yet, as horrible as he is, a sizeable portion of the electorate preferred him to Hillary Clinton and prefer him to Joe Biden. You might ask yourself why that is. Do you think people are so stupid Trump has them fooled into believing he’s all the things he’s not and that he’s not all the things he is? I refuse to believe that that many of my fellow citizens are that goddamn stupid. They know Trump is an awful person – they also know that the alternative is even worse.

        1. At least he doesn’t try to hide it. There is something to be said for keeping it real.

          1. Dave Chapelle said a bunch about it, for instance.

      4. I’m asking what the supposed scandal is dear.

        1. the scandal is:
          1. rich guy (but not that rich) paid no (income) taxes (in some years, because he had no income, or had large losses to carry forward)
          2. Trump claimed to be rich, but has cash flow problems (like many real estate investors in a recession), so he’s not really rich
          3. But he really is rich, and we should get some of his cash (which he is bleeding)
          4. Real estate investor has most of his assets in illiquid land and buildings, and has lots of debt to service (like most other real estate investors), so he could be bribed by anyone, like THE RUSSIANS.
          5. The (partial) tax return data (from unnamed source(s)) shows no bribes from Russia, but just wait! And Trump once earned money in Russia!! (#ThisTimeWeveReallyGotHim)

      5. Narrator – “It doesn’t actually provexany of that”

    3. “…where is the scandal?”

      In the minds of spaz, WK, turd, I’m sure Tony and other assholes afflicted with TDS.

      1. Do you recall the awesome enchanter named “Tim”, in “Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail”? The one who could “summon fire without flint or tinder”? Well, you remind me of Tim… You are an enchanter who can summon persuasion without facts or logic!

        So I discussed your awesome talents with some dear personal friends on the Reason staff… Accordingly…

        Reason staff has asked me to convey the following message to you:

        Hi Fantastically Talented Author:

        Obviously, you are a silver-tongued orator, and you also know how to translate your spectacular talents to the written word! We at Reason have need for writers like you, who have near-magical persuasive powers, without having to write at great, tedious length, or resorting to boring facts and citations.

        At Reason, we pay above-market-band salaries to permanent staff, or above-market-band per-word-based fees to freelancers, at your choice. To both permanent staff, and to free-lancers, we provide excellent health, dental, and vision benefits. We also provide FREE unlimited access to nubile young groupies, although we do firmly stipulate that persuasion, not coercion, MUST be applied when taking advantage of said nubile young groupies.

        Please send your resume, and another sample of your writings, along with your salary or fee demands, to ReasonNeedsBrilliantlyPersuasiveWriters@Reason.com .

        Thank You! -Reason Staff

        1. Fuck off, Sqrlsy

        2. Fuck off and die, spaz.

          1. Make me, punk!

            Just as you do NOT have the intellectual heft to refute what I write, you do NOT have the physical heft to come over and “make me”, puny one!

            1. I do. You’re a weak little punk that just can’t shut up. Now go back to your shit bucket.

              Or better yet, commit suicide.

      2. I haven’t claimed there is a scandal.

        1. Just heavily implied it above. Got it. Or did you not ask of he would be able to get a security clearance?

    4. The other scandal is that they get to use the phase “tax avoidance” in their headline, thus fooling at least half their readership into thinking Trump was caught breaking the law.

  23. Project Veritas bas Ihan Omar associates on camera discussing their illegal ballot harvesting operations in Minnessota.

    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bronsonstocking/2020/09/27/project-veritas-uncovers-alleged-voterfraud-scheme-connected-to-ilhan-omar-n2577042

    1. It’s the democrat way. She and her cohorts goddamn well better be prosecuted for this.

  24. Jesse Eisinger
    @eisingerj
    It’s a good morning to remind you that you are more likely to be audited if you are poor than if you are rich:

    This is a lie by omission. The actual issue is the IRS focuses on the EIC as it is the most abused tax break.

    Higher audit rates in poor counties stem from the IRS targeting taxpayers who claim the Earned Income Tax Credit.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/where-does-the-irs-audit-the-most-poor-rural-counties-that-are-mostly-black/

    The IRS is focusing on the highest piece of fraud that is the easiest to uncover as a lie. Saying this is targeting the poor is narrative framing.

    1. There are also a lot more people making 20k than there are making 1200k.

      1. You beat me to it.

    2. And the EITC is stupidly easy to game. Report off-the-books income, when your total income is still below a certain amount? Get refundable EITC credit in your income tax refund. Make up a random number, put it in the “Other income” box of the 1040EZ? Same thing. It’s like they are wanting the EITC to be cheated.

  25. When will ENB report her tax returns? Fair-minded readers demand to know!

  26. California will start requiring prisons to house transgender inmates in the prison that matches their gender identity.

    Reason in 2024: California going bankrupt over prison rape cases from transgender policy.

    1. progressives see this as reducing prison inequality

  27. Tiny hands, tiny tax bill, tiny dick, amirite?

    1. Stormy says so.

      1. Why would you be interested in his dick size?

        1. Sqrsly loves the small dick. Why he prefers kids.

          1. Sorry. SPB. All the trolls meld together.

        2. If it’s bigger than the average 12 year-old, turd’s no interested.

  28. You can read the full Times report here.

    And where can we see the actual documents? Are they available, or do we have to rely on the word of the NYT that they exist? And who released these documents to the NYT? An anonymous source perchance? So how do we know these documents exist and that they’re authentic? The same process by which Dan Rather presented his document that proved George Bush had gone AWOL from the Texas Air National Guard? You’ll excuse me if I seem a wee bit skeptical about this whole thing, regardless of the layers and layers of fact-checkers the NYT used to employ between the advent of Walter Duranty and the 1619 Project.

    1. NYT said they wouldn’t release them as it may give away who illegally leaked them.

      1. Yes. Normally we think of “whistleblower” as a person who reveals illegal activity, not a person who illegally reveals legal activity.

      2. Eagerly awaiting charges brought against the NYT for disseminating illegally gotten material.

        If it were whistle blowing, that’s one thing.

        But there isn’t any malfeasance at all within the tax returns. It was simply someone leaking material illegally, which is not protected by American law, or indeed any decent person.

        1. I’m sure the Times’s indictment over this will be filed with David Gregory’s for possessing that illegal magazine on air.

        2. Doubt they get criminal indictment based on the theory of the Panama papers.

          But gawker lawsuit for hulk… bye bye NYT.

    2. There is no IRS anonymous source. There are no tax returns that have been leaked. The NYT has not seen or heard from either. The NYT has fabricated this entire story. Prove I’m wrong. Just one citation.

      1. I’d argue that the fact nothing was found that can point to something illegal is proof enough for me.

        You can bet that if they were simply making it up whole cloth, their story would be more damning than the massive nothing burger they reported. Instead, they’re just making bad faith arguments that only appeal to the mentally retarded.

        1. One big difference, Muzzled, is that to prove the Times is lying here, Trump would have to disclose his returns. And what would he gain from doing so? I don’t know that Trump could win a defamation claim on those facts.

          Make it a case where the Times was claiming that Trump did something illegal, OTOH, and now you have malice. Trump would likely still have to disclose, but he could win a defamation claim then.

          1. So the Times easily could be telling a whopper here, but it has to be a small enough lie that Trump wouldn’t expose it by divulging the actual returns, statements, accompanying forms, etc… Saying he followed the law but paid ridiculously small income tax isn’t a big enough law to do that; saying he’s a tax cheat and likely felon would be.

          2. Trump doesn’t have to prove anything. It was a release of confidential information. We went through this with Gawker vs Hulk Hogan.

            1. Hogan wasn’t running for President, Trump is. The confidential material was a sex tape, wholly salacious, and had nothing to do with any conceivable right the public may have had to be aware of that information.

              Trump’s tax returns, OTOH are, at a minimum, informative about the candidate’s financial good judgment. While such returns are confidential, there’s a public interest in a free press fully informing the public about the character of its political candidates. Moreover, the Times never published the full returns, just excerpts from data obtained from them.

              In short, I don’t think Gawker is as analogous to the situation here as you do. Besides, this is going to be forgotten in a few days anyway, post Debate #1. Why draw attention to it by filing suit, if you were Trump?

  29. I came looking this morning to see Reason’s take on all of the new Russia collusion information that was released showing significant shady behavior in the highest levels of government; you know, something a libertarian website surly must be concerned about. I guess it’s still too early for that article, huh?

    1. Subversion of Federal law enforcement and national intelligence in order to remove an elected President is just not a major news event in the Age of OrangeManBad.

      Page one of the Reason Stylebook, just after the secular prayer to Obama.

    2. But Trump didn’t forfeit enough money to the IRS!

    3. old and local news.

    4. I often check your posts for evidence of some form of intelligence and remain unable to find any.

      1. Um, what the hell are you talking about. What’s your problem? Instead of commenting without substance, how about you explain what’s wrong with my post?

    5. significant shady behavior in the highest levels of government

      Reason style guide page 112: “It’s only shady when the GOP does it.
      Otherwise it’s responsible government officials taking extraordinary action out of an abundance of caution.”

    6. Can you provide some links since Reason didn’t?

      1. https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-fbis-bad-intelligence-11601075142

        Nobody though to mention any of this on the FISA warrant applications…

        1. Or they did, on application 1.0, where the FISA Court actually rejected the application. Making their—alleged—acceptance rate something like 15,000 to 5.

  30. It’s worth noting that there is no reason to assume the NYT has Trump’s tax returns.

    1. I hate that a statement like this used to be a conspiratorial statement, but now it’s just good practice to assume that the media source is lying in some regard.

    2. I haven’t paid much attention to the bullshit, but I seem to recall seeing an initial story that the NYT had “documents”, not tax returns specifically.

      1. Documents based on……? Documents written by …….?
        I still see no reason to believe anything the NYT has printed has a basis in truth.

    3. no reason to assume the NYT has Trump’s tax returns

      1) The anonymous source has had access to these documents for how long, but they are just now being leaked 5 weeks before the election and after voting has already started?

      2) Producing fake records is a great way to put pressure on someone to release real records, as it is the only way to disprove the faked records.

      3) The NYT does not have a shred of journalistic integrity remaining.

      1. Let’s look at some other stories that this anonymous “bombshell” conveniently obscures (and we’ll just go with most recent):
        – democrat organized vote fraud
        – blm attempted murder of trump rally
        – fbi knowingly committing treason

      2. they have tax return data, not tax returns. I assume it is accurate (but likely incomplete).
        so no, Trump can’t sue for defamation, they’re not defaming him.
        they can be prosecuted for publishing legally private information, it’s a crime.

        1. I hope they are prosecuted.

  31. https://twitter.com/redsteeze/status/1310571186762387456
    Joe Biden won’t even answer if he’ll pack the Supreme Court. His Senate records are still sealed after being accused of sexual assault.

    1. https://twitter.com/redsteeze/status/1310416758944137216

      2 Reporters on this latest NY Times tax story essentially wrote the same story as well in 2018

      1. They’re coordinating

        https://twitter.com/grace_panetta/status/1310405504196321285
        Well that was quick — the Biden team just released their first ad on the reporting released today on Trump’s taxes in the
        @nytimes

        1. https://twitter.com/redsteeze/status/1310405665857314816

          Yeah Harry Reid accused him on the floor of the a senate of not paying taxes and you all had a laugh.

          Then he admitted he lied but Romney lost. And you all shrugged.

          And here we are. And no one cares now.
          Quote Tweet

  32. Hunter Biden does not exist.

    1. A supremely talented, educated, and hard working young man like Hunter Biden clearly earned all those millions of dollars in payments he received from the Russians.

      Nothing to see there, move along.

    2. Hunter Biden is actually ten chickens in a human suit.

  33. The important part of the Times piece they make a footnote: “Nor do [tax records] reveal any previously unreported connections to Russia.”

    All the promises that the tax returns would show hidden Russian payoffs, and nothing.

    John Harwood was just on CNN was even desperately trying to make something out of the Moscow Miss Universe income.

  34. 2016:

    https://twitter.com/CNN/status/758436818106847232
    Could Trump’s tax returns reveal the Republican presidential nominee has ties to Russia?

  35. https://twitter.com/sunnyright/status/1309921753683156992

    After months of the media insisting that Florida was going to reach New York death toll records any day now, Florida remains a fraction and New York is back up to 1,000 cases per day.

    1. “Cases” don’t mean shit.

      1. Especially since they continue to over replicate the samples.

        1. Yep. It’s 100% manufactured so we don’t realize it’s all bullshit this close to the election. The Ds are all in on the lockdowns at this point.

  36. https://twitter.com/sunnyright/status/1309562536539361280

    The Pope is protected by trained Swiss Armed Forces soldiers who carry SIG Sauer P220 pistols and SIG SG 550 rifles, along with undercover guardsmen carrying Heckler & Koch MP7s and Glock 19 pistols.
    Quote Tweet

    Pope Francis
    @Pontifex
    · Sep 25
    We need to dismantle the perverse logic that links personal and national security to the possession of weaponry. This logic serves only to increase the profits of the arms industry, while fostering a climate of distrust and fear between persons and peoples. #UN75 @UN

    1. They also have halberds.

      Maybe they can keep the halberds.

      1. I’m definitely not going to fuck with someone who has a halberd

    2. …. while fostering a climate of distrust and fear between persons and peoples.
      But not popes, I guess.

      1. Hey, that magic hat has POWERS!

  37. https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1310226349303373829

    For a large portion of our past, the
    @latimes
    was an institution deeply rooted in white supremacy.

    It’s important, in this season of reconciliation and reflection, that we apologize for our past.

    1. So when did they stop being an institution deeply rooted in white supremacy? And how exactly did they stop? I mean, if your roots go back to white supremacy, you can’t very well go back and change the past so that your roots no longer go back to white supremacy, can you? Well, not in anything less than the Orwellian and Stalinist version of “the past”.

      1. you can find articles of them supporting separate spaces on campuses within the last few years.

      2. The most vile white supremacist is the one who tries to change. SHAME…… SHAME……SHAME……

  38. At one point at Revenue Canada and Quebec, tax collectors made it a point of going to anyone that wasn’t a big fish. It was just easier to audit and collect that way as most of them don’t have the means or just can’t fight back so they just pay.

    Going after lawyered up big boys is harder and takes time.

  39. I honestly feel like a broken record, but…
    – the NYT is a rag and whatever they claim about Trump is 99% lies
    – Reason is likewise corrupted, that’s why they only care about the fictional wrongdoings of Trump et al, yet they brazenly ignore everything that’s going on the other side of the aisle

    It’s all so tiresome…

    1. It does seem odd for a publication that calls itself libertarian to be ragging on somebody for not paying his “fair share” of taxes, despite him paying his legally required share of taxes.

      1. In the very same roundup they bitch about poor people paying taxes. So maybe just fair share narratives like socialists?

      2. Everything is un-libertarian about this hit piece, so of course ENB will tout it.

  40. https://twitter.com/boriquagato/status/1310219239446454272

    there is a tantalizing wrinkle to this data in the way it flatlines.

    % positive seems to hit a wall at 4.5% and hold in the 4.5-5.5% range.

    …are we even tracking disease anymore or just tracking the error rates from oversensitive testing being performed at a rate never before seen in all of human history.

    we’re doing more covid tests per day in the US than we do flu tests in a year.
    that looks like a probabilistic phenomenon, not an epidemiological one.

    could this be the false positive rate on tests?

    1. This has been obvious for months. Except the NE, nobody can get under about 4% positive rate. We can slow the curve but can’t stop it, just like everybody knew in March. The only way out is through.

  41. https://www.zerohedge.com/political/german-professor-arrested-after-speaking-we-do-not-consent-rally-london

    After Metropolitan Police claimed they would only crack down on marchers flagrantly violating social distancing rules (though the hated “rule of six” had been suspended due to the gathering’s “protest” status), German professor Dr. Heiko Schoening was arrested by a gang of British officers – he was filmed being loaded into a paddy wagon – after speaking out against using tactics like economy-destroying mandatory lockdowns during yesterday’s “We Do Not Consent” rally in London.

  42. It’s hard to believe that Donald Trump, who spent his whole life cheating on his wives and defrauding contractors, vendors, investors, creditors, and customers, would stoop to cheating on taxes, accepting bribes, and lying about his income and net worth.

    1. That is because you are an idiot who doesn’t understand how business and especially the real estate development business works. Google “strategic default” and try and educate yourself a bit.

      In the mean time, if Trump did cheat on his taxes, that means the IRS audited him and let him get away with it out of kindness or something. Yeah, you probably believe that along with a lot of other things.

      1. Crufus no doubt sends along a little extra money with his tax returns, just to be nice.

    2. It’s not hard to believe lefty fucking ignoramus would show up here with nothing but strawmen.

  43. https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/403129/

    So the source of the Steel Dossier was a Russian agent. The entire thing was almost certainly a Russian disinformation campaign. Russia wanted Hillary as President or if Trump one to hobble Trump once in office. Like everything the media says, the truth is exactly the opposite of what they claimed. Trump wasn’t a Russian agent, the people claiming he was were Russian agents.

    The only question is whether this is the usual FBI and CIA incompetence or a joint operation with the KGB to influence and later overturn an election the result of which neither the US intelligence community nor the KGB could abide. I have always thought it was a joint operation. Bothe the KGB and CIA had a common enemy in Trump. I find it hard to believe the CIA didn’t know who was feeding the information to the Steele dossier.

    1. Hillary signed off on Russia buying control of half the US uranium supply after hubby got paid a half mil for a 20 min speech in Russia.

      They know she would have played ball.

      1. And they had been reading her emails off of her home server. The Russians almost certainly had and have copies of all of the emails she deleted before turning the server over to the Department of State and FBI. God only knows how much blackmail material they had on her from that.

        Moreover, every policy Hillary promised from green energy to involvement in the Middle East would have made the US weaker and benefited Putin. Yet somehow, it was Trump, who was a complete wildcard promising to demand Europe rearm and to unleash the full power of the US petroleum industry with its accompanying effect on oil prices that the Russians really wanted in office.

        1. Accuse someone else of doing what you’ve been doing all along first, and useful idiots will cry about whataboutism when you’re rightfully accused of doing that thing.

          Then, make sure you have cutouts that can be eliminated or thrown to wolves as bad actors if or when you get caught.

    2. “The entire thing was almost certainly a Russian disinformation campaign. ”

      It was not. It was a DNC and deep state disinformation campaign. Calling it a Russian disinformation campaign implies Hillary and co. were merely “duped” by false info, rather than active creators of said false info.

      1. Yes. They were not duped. That is why I think it was a joint CIA, DNC, KGB operation. Hillary and the rest of them were not duped. The knew where the information was coming from. But the KGB didn’t just decide to feed that information to Steele and onto Hillary and the Deep State. It was all coordinated.

        1. Why do you think the KGB was involved? This was one Russian guy contracted to write a custom-made fantasy.

          1. Who else created the source? The KGB creates the source who then feeds the information to Steele who then feeds the information to Hillary who then gives it to the FBI. It is all too neat not to have been planned and coordinated. What happened was the FBI used information fed to it from a CIA source, Steele, to justify getting a FISA warrant on Trump. That we know. That by itself is a nifty piece of coordination on the part of the CIA and the FBI. The missing piece is where did Steele get the information. Now we know it came from a Russian agent. So, a Russian agent fed it to a CIA asset, who then fed it via Hillary to the FBI where it was used to get a FISA warrant on Carter Page to spy on Trump.

            Maybe the information originating with a Russian agent is some kind of happy coincidence. But, why would a Russian agent make up such information to feed to Steele? My guess is that he would do that because the KGB told him to do so. And why would the KGB do that if not because the whole thing was a joint CIA KGB operation?

            1. The KGB does not need to exist in this case. You just need an old “Russian Spy”. Steele was contracted to make or find a nefarious story. Since the whole thing is bullshit, it is fabricated, by definition. This operation originated with the Hillary campaign. It traveled downstream to the “contractors” likely with some specs of what kind of dirt they wanted. Steele made it up. Handed it to some old Russian who then handed it back to Steele as “secret info”. Steele then reported he had got some secret dirt on Trump from an old Russian spy. He then reported back to Hillary and co. his “report”. Likely some editing and modifications until they had it just right. Then the info was leaked and spread. End of story.

              1. That is possible. We may never know the truth. But, I think it is equally possible it was a joint operation. The KGB wanted Hillary in office just as much as the US deep state did.

                1. SVR, post 1991, not KGB anymore. But yeah.

                  Not like many of them changed anything besides the name tags.

                  1. I honestly don’t think the Russians were involved at all.
                    In the last 20 years, almost all claims on Russian intel activity can be reliably sourced back to British intel.
                    The Atlantic deep state is our real enemy.

      2. Steele said in British Court that he didn’t verify much of the information but believed it to be real. Seems like he was duped.

        1. I would be surprised if Steele would be willing to admit in court he was part of a Russian intelligence operation.

        2. Having a guy tell a guy tell Fusion GPS tell the DNC who pass it on to media and deep state is not “duping”. It is creating levels of deniability. Even Steele who was just one level removed can get away with the “I was duped” story when he and everyone else knew exactly what was going on.

          1. yep all it takes is a “wink wink a little nudge know what i mean”

        3. Did the NYT offer him a job? The Atlantic?

        4. Steele said in British Court that he didn’t verify much of the information but believed it to be real. Seems like he was duped.

          If he was duped, him believing it blindly means he was willingly duped.

      3. And the disinformation campaign headquarters is Block Yomomma’s heavily fortified eight million dollar bunker located at 2446 Belmont Road in the Kalorama section of Northwest D.C.

    3. We knew Steele used Russians as sources from literally the first moments his involvement came to light.

      1. But not Russian intel agents.

        1. I mean, anyone who read between the lines assumed that but it’s certainly true that confirming that fact is important.

      2. We know he claimed Russian sources.
        Big difference.

    4. s/KGB/FSB/g – The KGB hasn’t existed since 1991.

    5. Its not the First time the CIA worked with the KGB some believe it goes as far back as WWII when they were under a different name.

      1. Given the CIA wasn’t founded until 1947, I think, it’d be under a different name too.

        OSS and NKVD working together? Sure, they were allies against the Nazis. For some value of “working together,” which usually means something different when it’s interpreted by Soviets.

  44. In The Era Of Hygiene, ‘Clean’ Author Makes The Case For Showering Less

    https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/09/26/917019912/in-the-era-of-hygiene-clean-author-makes-the-case-for-showering-less

    How did your identity as a cisgendered white male influence your reporting on this subject?

    Probably one of the main reasons I’ve been able to go so long without using [shampoo and deodorant] is because of the privilege of my position in American society. To the degree that these standards are culturally determined, I am coming from the group that has created these norms. That is why I believe I was able to push against them without more discriminatory consequences. I mean, people call me “gross.” But I didn’t suffer professionally to my knowledge. And other people would have.

    1. In the age of a pandemic, clearly the answer is for people to be less cleanly.

      1. over cleanliness and fear of all things nature leads to increased allergies in children. Over washing and sanitizing your hands can lead to warts. Over washing your skin and removing essential oils can lead to rashes.

        We evolved in nature. Nature isn’t bad. Over doing cleanliness is actually a bad thing. We have developed immune systems. Those systems shouldn’t go through atrophy.

        1. This is true. But that doesn’t extend to not showering every day and being intentionally dirty. That just means you should let kids get dirty and play outside not that you should let them stay that way.

          1. Showering daily is largely an American exercise. Most cultures do it a few times a week. Americans also have a higher percentage of children with allergies.

            I’m not saying to let kids walk around caked in mud. But im also saying Americans are largely too clean as seen by incidents of allergies.

            1. Americans might be too clean but it is not from showering every day. It is from avoiding getting dirty at all.

        2. Farm kids tend to have less illnesses and allergies. Especially those who work with livestock.

          1. They also tend to get a lot more exercise and eat less crappy food.

    2. “I mean, people call me “gross.” But I didn’t suffer professionally to my knowledge. And other people would have.”

      So he was blind and oblivious in addition to reeking like a trash heap? What kind of hiring process did he go through where literally stinking didn’t handicap his career? Cult guru or rock star are some of the very few occupations that come to mind. Undercover cop in a 1 percenter gang?

  45. OMG-LOL, someone ACTUALLY wrote this! The New Yorker’s latest spin aka ‘Hunter Biden damage control’ is a DOOZY
    https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2020/09/27/omg-lol-someone-actually-wrote-this-the-new-yorkers-latest-spin-aka-hunter-biden-damage-control-is-a-doozy/

    Hunter Biden’s life has been full of struggles—drug abuse, alcohol addiction, and family tragedy—and the constant through it all, he says, has been his father’s love.

    1. It wasn’t a bribe. It was just a father taking care of his troubled son, to the tune of tens of millions of dollars from foreign adversaries.

      Joe just loves his son. Is that so wrong?

      1. Brings a tear to your eye.

      2. It was just 10 or 20 times Joe Biden saw his son at the airport trying to hitch a ride to China or the Ukraine and decided to give him a ride, because he’d had a tough life and Joe was going that way anyway.

  46. “Trump’s tax returns” …
    Cherry-pick the number that fits your narrative.

    1. He didn’t get any money from Russia and was so meticulously legal that even the IRS couldn’t find anything wrong with them.

      Trump remains the only honest man in Washington. The entire weight of the national media and federal government have been thrown against him for four years examining every aspect of his life and they have yet to find anything to use much less illegal. I am still amazed that anyone could withstand that kind of scrutiny.

      1. “The entire weight of the national media and federal government have been thrown against him for four years examining every aspect of his life and they have yet to find anything to use much less illegal. I am still amazed that anyone could withstand that kind of scrutiny.”

        Somebody who made their fortune in New York City commercial real estate, at that. It’s boggling.

        Though it has given us the spectacle of writers at a Libertarian magazine, who now bitch about a businessman being able to avoid income tax. What a year 2020’s been.

        1. Libertarians of the past

          Taxation is theft!!

          Reason Libertarians today

          Trump legally avoiding paying his fair share of taxes is outrageous and must not stand!!

          My how times change.

          1. “Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one’s taxes”
            “Over and over again courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging one’s affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everybody does so, rich or poor; and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands: taxes are enforced exactions, not voluntary contributions. To demand more in the name of morals is mere cant.”
            Judge Learned Hand

          2. No. It’s still theft, the left has good camouflage.

  47. https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/403170/

    The journolist lives on. It is funny how they are so stupid they don’t even bother to reword the talking points or designate one or two to write something else so that it isn’t so obvious. They must be so stupid that their handlers in the Democratic Party do not trust them to change so much as a word of the talking points that are fed to them.

    1. They need the echo chamber for social pressure purposes.

    2. There’s a reason they never learned to code. They couldn’t hack a first year logic class.

    3. It’s also simple brainwashing.
      Repeat a lie often enough…

  48. I’m NOT going to claim there’s no scam going on here, but… when you’re a billionaire you essentially don’t have much “income”. You certainly don’t have a wage or a salary unless you’re paying yourself one for tax reasons. Again, NOT claiming he has zero income. He must have some. It’s just not billions like people think it is.

    Also, as POTUS, he DOES have an income, and it’s a six figure income.

    1. It is my understanding he doesn’t accept his salary as President. Regardless, you are absolutely correct about billionaires and taxes. Super rich people don’t pay taxes. They have enough money to avoid them via business losses and other tax shelters. What Trump’s tax returns show is the absolute futility of any promises to “tax the wealthy”. No, you tax the middle and upper middle classes. The wealthy largely don’t pay taxes because they have the disposable income to avoid them.

      1. “What Trump’s tax returns show is the absolute futility of any promises to “tax the wealthy”. No, you tax the middle and upper middle classes. The wealthy largely don’t pay taxes because they have the disposable income to avoid them.”

        Might be time for Reason to update that ‘Government gets a max of 19 percent of GDP in revenue, no matter how much they tax’ article?

        1. “…Might be time for Reason to update that ‘Government gets a max of 19 percent of GDP in revenue, no matter how much they tax’ article?..”

          I doubt it; you still get a 6 for every 6 rolls on average.
          On average, the government gets 19%.

    2. He donates his full salary.

    3. He donates every penny of his income, so he doesn’t have an income.

  49. Preface: NOT A TRUMP FAN BY ANY MEASURE.

    “In fact, in 11 out of 18 years that the Times looked at, Trump effectively paid $0 in federal income tax.”

    This does not prove anything. My net worth increased by about fifteen percent during 2019. I bought a new house. I spent thousands of dollars on new furniture and the like. However, my taxable income was zero.

    1. Yeah, but are you orange?

    2. So how much did he pay in the other 7 years? average it out.

    3. And given that we know he paid $38 million in 2005, he averaged paying over $2.53 million per year over that same time period (that one year’s worth plus whatever he paid in the other 6 years that he paid in). And that’s just federal income tax.

  50. Trump’s ability to so successfully minimize his tax burden is impressive.

    He didn’t do it. His tax attorneys did.

    1. I send my guy nice Christmas gifts.

    2. Yes. What kind of a lying half wit thinks legally avoiding paying taxes is in any way remarkable or worth noting? Worse, what kind of a lying half wit claims to be a Libertarian and thinks legally avoiding taxes is both notable and something pejorative?

      1. “…What kind of a lying half wit thinks legally avoiding paying taxes is in any way remarkable or worth noting?..”

        WK, spaz, turd, Tony and others.
        Probably not half-wits; add ’em all together and you might get a half.

  51. I see, reason koch liberaltarians hate trump so much that they want to suck the dick of the NYT, the IRS, and other assholes in the media.

    Fuck you.

  52. >> it’s easy to see why the president never followed through on that promise.

    do you write so people will call you names or are you blind to how the rich don’t pay income taxes?

  53. Here you go snowflakes:

    1) Either he is a terrible businessman (so going against what everyone of his cult lovers say he does)

    or 2) he cheats the system and uses every available loophole to avoid taxes and then does NOTHING to fix the tax code for you, his devoted supporters, that would make an extremely wealthy person like him pay their fair share (and if you think it’s fair a middle class person pays more than a billionaire, you’re an idiot).

    3) “It makes him smart.” If that is the case, following it to its logical conclusion, you’re a fucking idiot.

    1. I really couldn’t give a shit less what kind of a business man he is or is not. I care about what kind of President he is. I am not being asked to hire him as a business man. I am being asked whether to keep him as a President.

      And his taxes are entirely legal as evidenced by the fact that he was audited and the IRS found nothing wrong with them. That is not “cheating they system” you lying moron. That is how the system works. I take every deduction I can just like Trump does. And so does every other American. If you don’t like that, change the fucking law.

      No one here is an idiot except you. Seriously, it boggles the mind that anyone could think the stupid thoughts you just wrote much less write them down thinking anyone else would not understand how stupid they are.

    2. Try harder

      1. It is so funny that these are the talking points they have been reduced to. The IRS finally committed a felony and leaked the tax returns. And all they can say after seeing them is “he really isn’t good at business” as if after four years of being President that would even matter as opposed to his record as President, and “he avoided paying taxes as much as legally allowed” like every other taxpaying American.

        It is sure is a long ways from the heady days of “Trump is an agent of Russia who Muehler is going to indict for treason” isn’t it?

        1. “The IRS finally committed a felony and leaked the tax returns.”

          Just remember, The Deep State is just tin foil hat nonsense.

        2. Right- the biggest “gotcha” they seem to think they have here is to show that he sucks at business. Which isn’t at all apparent from this type of information as discussed elsewhere in these comments, but… even if it were so, does it really matter at this point? Before the 2016 election, maybe, since he was running as the dealmaker businessman. But now, he has an almost 4 year track record actually doing the job- and frankly, doing it damn well when looked at objectively. That’s what matters now.

          1. Exactly. In 2016, his business record was relevant because he had no political record. Now he has four years of being President. His performance in office, whatever you think of it, is all that matters now.

        3. “The IRS finally committed a felony and leaked the tax returns.”

          That’s an assumption. It could have been someone else, such as an accountant that works for Trump.

          1. I suppose, but that would be a massive breach of fiduciary duty and a crime as well. CPA’s are like lawyers.

    3. “3) “It makes him smart.” If that is the case, following it to its logical conclusion, you’re a fucking idiot.”

      No, but your comment proves you are.

    4. False dichotomy built off apparent ignorance of business economics?

    5. “fair share”?

    6. 2) he cheats the system and uses every available loophole to avoid taxes

      I don’t think you know what the word “cheat” means.

  54. https://pjmedia.com/vodkapundit/2020/09/28/insanity-wrap-59-usa-today-takes-on-the-babylon-bee-brian-stelter-takes-a-leak-n974107

    Holy cow is Brian Stelter stupid. In response to the point that whoever leaked Trump’s tax returns to the Times is guilty of a felony Stetler says

    All of the information in the Times story was obtained by sources with legal access to it

    I don’t think this is Stetler being dishonest. This is from Twitter. I think he actually thinks that having legal access to the information makes it not a crime to leak it to the media. Twitter is a gift to the world in that it gave people like Stetler a forum free of editors and producers to show the world just how stupid they are.

    1. the video from the anti blm guy is awesome.

      1. It is. It is impossible to tell for sure when an anecdote is just that and when it is just one example of something larger. So, maybe guys like this are just one off. But, I think there is a chance they are not and instead are an expression of the opinion of the larger black community. If that is true, then the Democrats and corporate America have been taken in by a bunch of lunatic activists to support a cause that isn’t particularly popular among the full black community.

        1. White socialists burning down their neighborhoods and facing no legal consequences isn’t popular with them? That’s odd.

          1. Especially when half or more of those socialists are woke white people burning black neighborhoods down in the name of “racial justice”. I mean really who could have seen such a thing coming?

    2. The only way Stelter could know that is if he knows the exact identity and job functions of the leaker(s).

      Possible, but extremely unlikely. Mainly because I doubt any such leaker(s), or anyone else in the know would be stupid enough to trust him with that knowledge.

      1. He is quoting from the Times article. That is what the Times claims. And I have no reason to think they are lying. Regardless, their sources having legal access to the information doesn’t make it lawful for them to share it with those who do not.

        1. “And I have no reason to think they are lying. ”

          Then you were born yesterday as your mother fell off a turnip truck.

          1. It is not something they would lie about. I have no doubt the person who leaked it to them had legal access to it. What the Times is doing by saying that is implying that it makes their publishing the information okay. It doesn’t. So, the Times is stilly lying here but strictly speaking the factual statement that their sources had legal access to the documents is likely true. The lie is the implication that it matters.

            1. There is no person who leaked it to them. The NYT creates fake stories out of whole cloth all the time. They can literally say anything based on anonymous sources and never be held to account. The worst that will happen to them is the story will fade away or be shown to be false sometime in the future. No consequences. This has been going on for a long time.

              1. If that were true, then the returns are not real. They are not Trump’s tax returns but something fabricated. There is no evidence that they didn’t examine the real returns. If they didn’t, I would think Trump would be saying so. And I haven’t heard him saying they are not real.

                1. What tax returns are you referring to? There is no evidence anyone has leaked or seen said returns.

                  There is no reason for the NYT to not print documentation of the returns without revealing their “source”. However, at this point in time, there is no source and no documentation that can be seen or cited.

                  Trump is too smart to make a fuss yet. He turns these fake news stories in his favor every time. Early days, yet.

                2. “There is no evidence that they didn’t examine the real returns.”

                  There is no evidence I didn’t fuck Morgan Fairchild, therefore I did. And she hasn’t denied it.

                  1. oooh good choice.

            2. Isn’t it, however, illegal to disseminate material gotten/leaked illegally?

              This is the tact .gov has taken with Wikileaks, and that stuff is actual, real world whistle-blower stuff, whereas leaking tax returns that don’t reveal illegal activity is not?

              This is no less bad, and may perhaps be much worse, than leaking medical records or any other confidential (by law) material?

              Can charges be brought against the Times for knowingly disseminating confidential material that is not a whistle-blowing effort to show government malfeasance?

              1. It is illegal to pass along classified information. Tax returns are not national security information. I know it is a felony to leak them. But I do not think it is a crime for the Times to print them once they are leaked. But I could be wrong. I would have to look.

              2. “Isn’t it, however, illegal to disseminate material gotten/leaked illegally?”

                I am not a lawyer, but printing the truth isn’t likely to land you in jail if you’re a journalist–because of the First Amendment.

                If, on the other hand, you were instrumental in asking someone to break the law or promising to pay them to break the law–in obtaining that information, I’d think that would open them up to the charge of being an accessory.

                I think there’s probably also a pervasive mood like the one at the FBI ahead of Clinton being elected. If Joe Biden is elected, they don’t have to worry about being prosecuted for anything that helped him get elected–regardless of whether it’s someone at the FBI or someone at the Treasury Department or someone at the Washington Post.

                1. “I think there’s probably also a pervasive mood like the one at the FBI ahead of Clinton [Trump] being elected.”

                  You knew what I meant!

          2. Sure…but was his mother a hamster, and does his father smell of elderberries?

    3. If we want to see Trump reelected, we should look at this as good news.

      On the eve of Trump’s debate with Hillary Clinton, they released the “pussy grabbing” tapes. I thought it was a knockout blow at the time. Trump probably won the election because he kicked Hillary Clinton’s ass in that debate.

      If the best they have is Trump’s taxes this time, that’s pretty weak sauce comparatively speaking. Trump would have rather had to deal with his taxes than that pussy grabbing tape four years ago, and he won in spite of it. This will be a cakewalk by way of comparison.

      If Trump doesn’t win, it will only be because of the recession. There’s only so much a president can do in the face of that. I’m not saying he will lose, but if he does, it won’t be because of a leak about his income taxes. It won’t be because of anything Biden does either. And if Trump cleans Biden’s clock in the debates, he’ll win the election.

      1. Yes. They have no real October surprise. They have nothing. IF they did, we would have seen it by now.

        1. And what are the odds of President Trump winning the debates with Biden?

          I’d say Biden has a one in four chance of winning, and a two in four chance of shooting himself in the foot–which means I’d put Trump at a 75% chance of winning the debates.

          1. They have lowered the expectations so far for Biden anything short of Biden wetting himself and drooling all over the podium will be spun as a win for Biden. I have absolutely no doubt that the media has given the questions to the Biden campaign in advance. The plan is for Biden to know the questions and have rehearsed the answers such that he can get through without looking too bad. The only danger is for Trump to somehow get him off script. But, the moderator will do everything in their power to keep Trump from doing that. Meanwhile, the media will pounce on any misstatement or mistake by Trump spinning it as some huge gaffe while talking about how Presidential Biden looked in his prepared answers.

            I don’t know if it will work. But it might. Anyway, I don’t see how they can do anything else. If there is anything like a fair debate, Biden will fall apart such that even the media won’t be able to spin it otherwise. A fair debate will turn the election into a nationwide re-enactment of the famous Monty Python dead parrot sketch with the Democrats and the media playing the part of the pet shop owner and Biden playing the dead parrot.

            1. There are a lot of people who are unaware Biden has dementia. It is going to be shocking when they see the truth unfiltered.

              1. No they don’t. The thing that shocked even me was Biden ending his campaign for the day at 9:30 am the day after Ginsburg went tits up. There is no way to explain a Presidential candidate doing that on any day much less one as important to the news cycle as the death of a Supreme Court Justice except that Biden is really sick likely with dementia.

                People keep comparing it to Hillary not going to the upper Midwest. But Hillary still campaigned and was out doing something every day. She just didn’t go to Wisconsin and Michigan. Biden isn’t doing anything.

                1. It’s important to emphasize that, too.

                  Biden is a dangerous president–because he has no intention of standing for reelection. No way he’ll be criss crossing the country at 84 in 2024. He’ll bow out and hand it to Harris, probably after the midterms in 2022.

                  It’s easy to introduce the Green New Deal when you have no intention of ever facing the voters again.

                  1. I don’t think he makes it through an entire term. He will start his term in a state similar to Woodrow Wilson at the end of his. The Presidency ages relatively young men like George W. Bush or Obama. There is no way Biden is mentally and physically up to the job.

                    In the end, I don’t believe the country will elect someone so obviously not up to the job as Biden. And I don’t think the Democrats and media can keep the country from realizing how sick he actually is.

                    1. “In the end, I don’t believe the country will elect someone so obviously not up to the job as Biden.”

                      I want to believe it.

                      I’d believe it more if he were sending us another round of $1,200 checks.

                2. “No they don’t. The thing that shocked even me was Biden ending his campaign for the day at 9:30 am the day after Ginsburg went tits up. There is no way to explain a Presidential candidate doing that on any day much less one as important to the news cycle as the death of a Supreme Court Justice except that Biden is really sick likely with dementia.”

                  Stated here a few days ago, by I forget who, but this is why he’s shutting his appearances down before noon: he’s changed his sleep cycle to where he goes to bed then. Goes to sleep at noon, gets a full eight plus hours, wakes up fresh at 8 or so PM.

                  What time is this debate tomorrow? Exactly. That’s how he’s going to avoid any accusations of sundowning.

              2. They won’t see a dementia patient, Tom. They’ll see a guy who has just woken up an hour or so prior, doped to the eyeballs with every stimulant known to mankind, who will march through his talking points crafted through early access to the debate questions.

                Or, if he can’t even do that, he’ll catch COVID.

        2. no real October surprise … in September?

          1. Can’t tell if sarcasm.

        3. It’s not October yet.

          1. Yeah, Trump’s taxes are just the latest round of the drip, drip, drip. It’s a nine-day’s wonder, they’ll have a new one in nine days. Is anybody still talking about Trump calling our WWII dead suckers and losers? Is anybody still talking about Trump lying about how seriously he took the coronavirus pandemic? Give it a week and nobody will be talking about Trump’s taxes, either.

      2. If Trump doesn’t win, it’ll be because totalitarian leftists committed massive fraud.
        Full stop.

    4. My wife is a nurse administrator and has legal access to hundreds of thousands of health records

  55. property crimes in California are actually through the roof but since they don’t process crimes under a $1000.00 anymore they don’t go in the record books.

    1. Shhhhh! You’re probably going to say CompStat doesn’t tell the truth either.

    2. lots of broken car windows, but those are good for the car window repair based economy

  56. We’re seriously getting into “Iraqi WMD” levels of bullshit here. Seriously, you anally probe a NY real estate developer for years and find this little?

    Hell, I keep expecting him to have been guilty of something by now. You can’t even get him on assault charges because Harris said she believed Biden’s accuser in their debate and they don’t dare get that thrown in their faces.

    1. But I bet Alkon will still be voting Democrat. It is just bad luck that this happened. And besides, no matter how bad it gets, anything is better than being associated with the deplorables.

      This is literally how people like her think.

      1. I’m writing this from California. I’m sure there are many Americans from outside this state—not to mention foreign readers—whose response to all of this is that we left-coast utopians are merely getting what we deserve. But remember, for better or worse, my state has a long history of exporting cultural and political trends to the rest of the world.

        Fuck her with a rusty chainsaw.

        1. I was once banned from her website.

          She’s an advice columnist.

        2. in other words, she admits that Californians are getting what they deserve, and they are planning to export it to everyone else.

    2. We’re talking about Alkon again?

      She used to comment over here.

      She was one of Welch’s buddies.

    3. Amy Alkon used to write here, once in awhile.

      Bummer for her, but OTOH, she likely voted for all of that shit.

  57. I don’t give a shit about how much President Trump pays in income taxes. In Libertopia, there wouldn’t be any income taxes. And there isn’t anything remotely libertarian about class envy. There certainly isn’t anything capitalist about it.

    Christianity is superior to progressivism in a number of ways. I maintain that believing the universe is so vast and complicated that an omnipotent power must have created it, for instance, is far more rational than believing that Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and Joe Biden have the god like superpowers necessary to make better choices for us than we can make for ourselves through markets.

    Another way in which Christianity is superior is that the Ten Commandments contain two admonitions against socialism: 1) Thou shalt not steal, and 2) Thou shalt not covet. To the extent that people are obsessed with how much President Trump pays in taxes, it’s because they covet–his money–and they want to spend it on themselves.

    1. Progressivism is a type of perverse Christless Christianity though, which is why questioning it is treated as heresy.

      1. Contemporary progressivism is a religion. And our culture has been heavily influenced by Christianity. I don’t think I’d call progressivism a kind of Christianity, though.

        “But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

        That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

        —-Matthew 5: 44-45

        Everybody’s got rights that need to be respected–even the evil people. That’s Sermon on the Mount stuff that flies in the face of progressivism. I don’t think you can be a progressives and believe that everyone’s rights should be respected–even if they’re evil.

        1. But Trump will take away our rights if he is reelected, or if Barrett is confirmed. I read it on Yahoo News. Not sure which rights will be taken away, exactly.

    2. Depending on which version of the Ten Commandments you’re following, the majority of the commandments have to do with not taking shit that doesn’t belong to you – God’s glory, your neighbor’s reputation, his life, wife, or property – and a further admonition or two against covetousness, the act of even thinking about taking your neighbor’s shit.

    3. You sure know what most progressives believe Ken? I’ve never heard anyone refer Pelosi, Biden, and Schumer as God like figures. They’re flawed politicians, who in my opinion have less flaws than most across the aisle. There’s nothing religious about political views. They’re goddamn political views! Many people have views you could describe as dogmatic, but there’s nothing spiritual or supernatural about them. I’m not anti Christian, just anti Mormon, but basing your political beliefs on a 2000-3000 year old book is bonkers in my opinion. You can believe whatever you want just keep it out of EVERYONES Government.

  58. https://twitter.com/redsteeze/status/1310582304402669569

    The morning after the supposed Trump tax bombshell story – Biden goes dark.
    Quote Tweet

    Pat Ward
    @WardDPatrick
    · 1h
    Biden campaign has called a lid at 9:52am.

    1. 10 AM and already done? Did they actually cancel any events?

  59. https://twitter.com/dempstermd/status/1310573089177112578

    Not to mention NYT’s own story reports Trump paid millions into the US Treasury in 2016 and 2017.

    1. Yeah, Trump donates his salary and thus doesn’t have an income. The federal government is who receives most of his donations. But the take away is the federal government doesn’t get enough in taxes from him. His donated salary far exceeds his tax obligations if he didn’t donate the money.

      1. That would be true if salary were the only form of income someone can have. Apparently, though, he has net losses, despite whatever salary he is donating.

        1. Which isn’t unusual for business owners who often operate on debt.

          1. No, it is not unusual.

  60. When your business has no net income, it doesn’t pay income taxes. This seems to be a hard concept to grasp for the lefties criticizing Trump or their fellow lefty Jeff Bezos. Large businesses still pay a lot in employee income taxes, property taxes, and sales taxes. It’s not like they are freeloaders.

    1. Corporate income taxes are a joke. Corporations only pay them if they decide to do so. And yes, you still pay taxes on income paid in the form of salaries and stock dividends if they are paid. “Profit” is a completely illusory term. No corporation turns a profit unless it chooses to.

      1. Corporations never pay tax. Owners do. Employees do. Customers do.

    2. Yes, “lefties” whose takeaway from the New York Times story is that Trump hasn’t paid enough taxes or has been evading taxes are missing the story’s big point.

      The article doesn’t claim he broke any tax laws or evaded taxes. (Well, other than claiming Ivanka as a consultant to the same enterprises where she was already part of the enterprise’s management.) The big concern the story raises is that Trump has huge debts coming due in the next four years, and apparently is making little or no income.

      1. Yeah that is the story. The felony committed leaking it and the fact that it shows the Russian claims to be complete lies is not the story here.

        Yeah, keep telling yourself that asshole.

      2. “…The big concern the story raises is that Trump has huge debts coming due in the next four years, and apparently is making little or no income.”

        That’s of concern to asshole TDS victims and no one else.

      3. Huge debts that will be rolled over before they are due just like all business do. its a part of operating expenses it how grocer get food to the store for people to buy. or maybe he will go belly up thats not my problem if he does

        1. Maybe, maybe not. It depends on how large the debts are relative to his income and assets.

          1. His estimated NET worth is hovering around $3 billion (and that’s after taking a big hit due to the slumps in the business sectors he’s invested in). You do know what “net” means there, right?

      4. No dude. *Trump* has no debts. His *businesses* do.

        MASSIVE fucking difference.

        1. Not when he brags to the voters about his wealth, and his business acumen is supposed to be a big reason to vote for him.

          1. Fuck waiting for godot
            “…In fact, Trump is a multibillionaire, worth $2.5 billion, by our count. His portfolio, which includes commercial buildings, golf properties and branding businesses, is worth an estimated $3.66 billion before debt. The president has a fair amount of leverage—adding up to a roughly $1.13 billion—but not enough to drag his net worth below a billion dollars…”
            https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2020/09/28/yes-donald-trump-is-still-a-billionaire-that-makes-his-750-tax-payment-even-more-scandalous/#102feddc2885

            1. “United States 614” Billionaires out of 300,000,000
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_billionaires

              I’d say that puts him in a pretty select group of people, and other than assholes with TDS, I’m sure I’d get a lot of agreement.

    3. “When your business has no net income, it doesn’t pay income taxes.”

      Incidentally, people who don’t earn income don’t pay taxes on the income they didn’t earn either.

      The only people this appeals to are people who imagine that you owe them something because you have what they want.

      Our economy has become so productive that we can pay for people who do nothing productive–and their are downsides to that. One of them is people who imagine they’re entitled to things that don’t belong to them.

      P.S. Lotteries are morally depraved.

      1. Lotteries are a voluntary tax. That’s libertarian, not depraved. Though some may say that’s a distinction without a difference

        1. Lotteries are a state monopoly, enforced with the threat of violence against competitors (people “running numbers rackets”) who would pay a larger share of the take out in prize money.

          1. Most casinos pay out 90 to 95 percent of the take in prize money. If they paid less, people wouldn’t go there, because it’s not fun to lose all the time.

            State lotteries pay out 50 percent in prize money, and then many states tax the winnings too.

            1. Exactly, but I am not forced to pay the lottery tax.
              Those that choose to are decreasing the pressure for the state to raise other taxes that I am forced to pay.

        2. “Lotteries are a voluntary tax. That’s libertarian, not depraved.”

          Within the context of what I was saying, lotteries reinforce the idea that getting rich is a function of luck–rather than effort and character.

          If earning money, saving it, and investing it is the moral way to wealth, reenforcing the weird assumption that it’s all a matter of luck and that you’re entitled to “win”, too, regardless of never having earned, saved, or invested a dime, that’s morally depraved.

          P.S. Throwing your life away smoking pot and playing video games in your parents’ basement is perfectly libertarian if your parents are willing to foot the bill, too. And it’s morally depraved.

    4. And let’s not let them frame the meme here. The social value a company provides comes from it’s goods and services, not how much tax it pays.

      Amazon, should it never have paid a single cent in tax, has done more good than any government program.

  61. For those of you looking for facts about the debates, here’s a great write up by Pew:

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/08/28/5-facts-about-presidential-and-vice-presidential-debates/

    A significant portion say that the debates are somewhat helpful or very helpful in helping them to make their decision, and swing voters are almost certainly in that group. 84 million people tuned in to watch the Clinton/Trump debate, and while I doubt the Biden/Trump debates will top that number, kicking ass there is a big deal if you’re going for swing voters.

    I’m also encouraging people to watch on some other platform that cable news or the big networks.

    Newsy is a great app for watching the debates if you’re streaming–and it isn’t so far gone, full-on, let’s elect Biden.

    1. “84 million people tuned in to watch the Clinton/Trump debate, and while I doubt the Biden/Trump debates will top that number, kicking ass there is a big deal if you’re going for swing voters.”

      I think it might be a greater audience, this time around. At least for the first 20 minutes. Long enough for people to decide for themselves, “Is Biden actually senile?” Not like there’s much else on TV or sports wise, anyway.

      1. Biden will parrot snipits of stump speeches he’s been giving for decades. He’ll look just fine as long as the moderator doesn’t trip him up on a follow-up question

        1. That might be true, if the Troll-In-Chief couldn’t be relied upon to interrupt, needle, and goad Biden to go off script. And point out that Biden has no clue now when he’s forced to do that.

          I expect Trump to be like a chimpanzee throwing shit from the opening remarks. With luck, he’ll piss Biden off enough that Joe tries to take a swing at him.

        2. You mean parrot snippets of stump speeches other people have given?

      2. The ratings will be higher this time. Not much else on TV, and nowhere to go.

    2. Some desperate alt-right YouTuber doing pro-Trump color commentary is not going to save him.

      Have no worry, Trump could saddle and ride Barron like a bitch, grab Chris Wallace by the pussy, take a giant wet shit on Melania, and smother Biden to death with his taint, and you would be here explaining its value as performance art.

      Just kidding you’re not that interesting in your partisan apologetics, which somehow makes it more absurd.

  62. One of the many ridiculous parts of an insane tax code allows investors to depreciate real estate even when it increases in value. The tax code is a scan with all these loopholes for monied interests. Wouldn’t be surprised if his bill was legitimate

    1. Why does depreciating an asset with a useful life–despite inflation–not make sense?

      No, your unremodeled kitchen from 15 years ago (not to mention the sprinkler system and the plumbing) is not as valuable as it once was–despite inflation and fluctuations in the housing market.

      P.S. Keeping more money out of the government’s hands is a good thing by itself.

    2. You’re using “depreciation” wrongly. Depreciation for tax purposes is a way to prorate an expense over many years. If the real estate is “appreciating” in value, the tax burden will be incurred upon selling for a gain.

      1. Yes. You get the value of the capital investment prorated over 27 years regardless of the value of the property on the market. When you sell the property, you then pay capital gains on the sales price minus the purchase price plus any depreciation you have taken.

        All taking depreciation on real estate does is allow you to lower your income tax bill now in return for paying capital gains on that amount when you sell the property.

        None of the leftists idiots commenting on this know shit about taxes or business.

        1. Never mind getting into: 1031/like-kind exchanges, the impact of qualified non-recourse debt, section 754 basis step-ups, 743 negative adjustments, using debt basis for debt financed distributions, or rate arbitrage on depreciation (ordinary income tax rate vs. capital gains rates). These are all normal topics for real estate investors and developers, and people in this space are very focused on these concepts to increase ROI and cash distributions. These concepts are mostly a mystery to everyone else, including other tax professionals, if they aren’t specialized in this area.

          1. (Cries in Title 26 and Treas. Regs.)

            I ended up working in tax for a bit, and was surprised at how much accounting and metaphysics ended up having in common.

    3. “…The tax code is a scan with all these loopholes for monied interests…”

      Green suits you well.

    4. First indication that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

      There are reasons for that depreciation.

  63. This is a wonderful idea that couldn’t possibly go wrong.

    White entered the UK prison system as transgender. However, despite dressing as a woman, the 52-year-old had not undergone any surgery and was still legally a male. She was also a convicted paedophile and on remand for grievous bodily harm, burglary, multiple rapes and other sexual offences against women.

    In September last year she was transferred to New Hall prison in West Yorkshire. During a three-month period at the female prison she sexually assaulted two other inmates.

    The decision to move White to a women’s prison was made public after she admitted in court to the sexual assault and to multiple rapes committed before she was sent to prison.

    And then this:

    Transgender politics – like any politics – can be divisive. Yet in the case of Karen White, who is legally still a man but was put in a female-only prison, both sides of the transgender rights debate are united in the belief mistakes were made.

    This is the Guardian… the fucking Guardian! Mistakes were made!

    1. Comment is in response to this:

      • California will start requiring prisons to house transgender inmates in the prison that matches their gender identity.

      1. Slutty criminals rejoice!

      2. I’d be okay with this, as long as they got fast-tracked to have their genitalia ‘fixed’ to their gender identity.

        Want to be in the women’s prison? Fine, as soon as we cut your dick off.

    2. It was just bad luck. Hey, what is a few women being raped in the name of the Revolution?

      God I hate leftists. They are just evil assholes all of them.

      1. It’s like no one who goes to prison would ever act in bad faith! Why would they?

        1. They knew this would happen. They just were okay with it happening because their desire to virtue signal and force this bullshit down the world’s throat was more important than the women who were going to be victimized because of it. They are just scum.

      2. But you don’t hate Trump for lying and being literally the worst businessman in the world and treating you like a dumb fucking sheep. You hate leftists because of some tranny in some other country. You are totally on the ball John. Finger on the goddamn pulse of the nation. I guess when you simply deny the real problems that exist like a psychologically scarred girlchild, you have all the time in the world to devote to bigotry and identity grievance.

    3. It was a bad call Ripley, a bad call.

  64. Yawn. The walls are closing in. Again.

  65. Earth shattering discovery. Thanks nyt for digging this up.

  66. I note that when Hillary released her tax returns she listed joint income from WJC LLC but no financials from WJC LLC.

    What this really shows is that Trump hasn’t been structuring his tax returns like a politician. It’s a bit weird that all of this is going on within his personal tax return and not a separate LLC.

    1. “ Mr. Trump and the hundreds of companies that make up his business organization”

      Ah. That makes more sense. But it’s weird that this level of accountability isn’t demanded uniformly across politicians.

      No. It’s not weird at all. Lol.

  67. “income tax burden”

    ftfy. stop conflating different tax categories for the purposes of partisan attacks.

    1. The funny thing is, the NYT reporters covering this story are probably W-2 employees and don’t understand what the hell they’re talking about, the higher-ups at the NYT are not W-2 employees and they know goddamn well what the story is (not) here.

      It’s like when Warren Buffet claims he pays taxes at a lower rate than his secretary. The only way that’s possible is if Warren Buffet has a lower income than his secretary. Your income taxes are really pretty simple, they’ve even got a table for them if you can’t do simple math, if you made x dollars, you pay y dollars in income tax, that’s it, that’s all there is to it.

      The tricky part lies in figuring out what your income is. Warren Buffet might say he “made” 2 billion dollars last year, but if he re-invested 99.9% of that money, then he didn’t make 2 billion dollars as far as the IRS is concerned, it wasn’t income, he’s not required to pay income taxes on it. The idea that Warren Buffet pays taxes at a lower rate than his secretary because he didn’t pay income taxes on 2 billion dollars that wasn’t actually income is ridiculous.

      1. People who know something about taxes know their time is valuable.

        The NYT does not pay for valuable time, they pay for hack hit jobs.

      2. There’s many layers of cognitive dissonance coming from anti-Trump sources. The Times will try to tell you that Blumpf is cheating the system by only paying $750 in income tax while also telling you that we need a wealth tax because executive compensation typically does not come in the form of income and we need to do SOMETHING about rich people, for the children of course.

  68. Claimed Matt Yglesias of Vox.

    1. You’re seriously quoting Yglesias? Was Richard Murphy not available?

    2. You’re quoting someone who writes for Vox? You couldn’t find a random wino to get their insight?

    Maybe it’s just my Gen X ass but do Millennials actually think Vox is journalism?

    1. ENB is constantly quoting Yglesias. Why? Is he a Libertarian? Does he write Libertarian leaning articles? No and No. He’s a far left radical. There isn’t a Libertarian bone in his entire body. Why not quote the Jacobin too?

    2. do Millennials actually think Vox is journalism?

      Are you kidding? They think Comedy Central is journalism.

  69. Read that closely. Trump PAID, as in transferred to the US Treasury, $1 million in 2016 and $4.2 million in 2017. Note also that most of the overpayment was rolled forward, not refunded. The $750 figure is an ADDITIONAL $750. Thus every single story saying he paid $750 is a lie.

    https://twitter.com/alexthechick/status/1310558051171262464

    1. I missed that.
      A very important point.

  70. Hey, Trump didn’t write the laws but his tax lawyers and accountants were smart enough to put them to good use. I wonder how many of the tax laws Trump’s tax lawyers and accountants made use of were voted for by Biden.

  71. When you got lots of money you can, at any point in time lose more money than whatever your relatvely low income happens to be. If that practice continues sufficiently long, you’ll be broke.

    In the case of Trump he has donated his income as president, so he has been paying, in effect, $400k per year, which adds to $1.2m

  72. “Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as
    possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the
    treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one’s taxes.
    Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister
    in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone
    does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any
    public duty to pay more than the law demands.”

    Quote by:

    Judge Learned Hand
    (1872-1961), Judge, U. S. Court of Appeals
    Source:

    in the case of Gregory v. Helvering 69 F.2d 809, 810 (2d Cir. 1934), aff’d, 293 U.S. 465, 55 S.Ct. 266, 79 L.Ed. 596 (1935)

  73. I’m still waiting to see the “S” corporate returns for Biden’s wholly owned operating entities.

    1. Lol you are so fucked.

  74. “Now that The New York Times has gone and done it for him”.
    QUESTION: has the writer, the commenters, or any readers of the NYT seen actual copies of the Trump Tax Returns? Or, have we all been victims of yet another Trump “Bombshell” report from anonymous officials? Why not just publish and print at least one page just to prove they have the tax returns? I am calling BS until the tax forms are released. Meantime, I am voting for Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho for President.

  75. just heard Harris talk in like weeks.. yikes, what a simpleton…the fact that she only got into some 3rd rate law school is really coming out

  76. “Trump’s not a billionaire. I’m a billionaire. Trump is a clown, living on credit.”

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-no-billionaire-hes-a-bullshit-artist-and-soon-well-have-the-taxes-to-prove-it

    Trumpy the Clown’s tiny tax bill is not the issue. The issues are his proven fraudulent persona, his huge debts, and by whom Trump is owned via his massive debts and insolvency.

    Perhaps, his destruction of America is his repayment to his owners.

    1. what destruction?

  77. What did I miss? Holding the president to the lowest possible standard of moral behavior imaginable? “If it’s legal it’s OK.” I’m glad Biden will have so much more wiggle room now that there are no morals or norms or culture at all (Trump: the people’s conservative).

  78. If you paid taxes, you paid taxes. Do union members get to say they paid no union dues, because they got that back in tax returns? “Effectively paid no taxes” makes no sense to me.

    Trump isn’t a consultant or CEO like Romney was in Bain. He’s a real estate, hotel and entertainment magnate. It would be strange indeed if had NO debt, especially since much of the 2010s were stuck in a recession and the leisure business took a hit. Most businesses aren’t truly profitable, and he probably had to borrow tons of money to keep his empire running. I’m sure he shot himself on the foot with lots of bad decisions, but owing a lot of money to foreign banks means nothing per se.

    There are multi million dollar businesses that haven’t turned a profit in years. Uber has never been profitable. It basically runs on investments and relies on people who want to work on their own time.

    If the worst charges confirmed by this story is “Trump isn’t a financial genius he says he is” – ok, fine. He’s a blowhard. But you weren’t asking for his tax return to examine his business acumen. And it’s not like the left would ever credit a successful GOP business man, given that a profitable business must go through its share of downsizing, outsourcing, automation, and taking advantage of tax incentives.

    1. Dude… not a business genius? He’s possibly the actual worst businessperson on the planet. I’ll just have to assume that his total mischaracterization of his relevant qualifications for the job of president is no big deal. Whatever.

      Presidents release this information so voters can make these judgments. We don’t need a whole new looser ethical standard for human beings because Trump is a terrible example of one and has an (R) next to his name.

      Just say that the ends justify the means and getting control of the courts for rightwing interests is worth turning the Republican Party, and the entire country as far as the world is concerned, into a sick joke. Your desire to undermine democracy via the courts is bad enough. Why bother with the desperate crap?

      Suburban women care about this kind of thing, no matter what excuses you make for him. You might as well take your judges and call it a win because the election won’t be. Unless, of course, it’s too late and your judges have enough ammunition against democracy already. In which case what does it matter how good or awful Trump is? Just stomp someone’s face with your boot and call it an honest day’s work.

      1. “Presidents release this information so voters can make these judgments.”

        you are so full of crap. career politicians like the bush family, the clintons and the obamas structure their finances, using foundations and the like, to present a pristine tax return for public consumption. It is a propaganda tool like any other political ‘ad’ designed to create a favorable facade. If the Clinton’s for example wanted to show their ‘business acumen’ they would release the Clinton Foundation’s records.

        You are so utterly full of crap Tony its surprising they haven’t carted you off as a biohazard.

        1. You don’t even believe then bullshit you’re typing. You probably clenched up in rage over some perceived minor infraction by one or both of the Clintons and the Obamas. You’re making excuses for the worst human on earth. Do you think that’s sustainable, or do you just need to beclown yourself until the election?

      2. Most businesses aren’t profitable. Uber has never been profitable. Trump is on the lower end.

        What does that have to do with collusion, financial crime and being beholden to foreign interests? Your lunatic friends cooked up a bunch of imaginary accusations and demanded Trump prove his innocence. No candidate is every obligated to show his tax return. Meanwhile they ignore Hunter getting wire transfers from Putin associates.

        So obviously someone leaked his record. This is how you people operate. You whine and complain when things don’t your way, use your numbers in government and big business to get what you want, while waxing poetics about societal injustice, even though most of the system is ran by white liberals.

        Progressives run every aspect of this country. Schools. Banks. Big business. Tech. Social media. Big Pharma. They even create alternate business models that can thrive in a high tax environment favored by THEIR policies. But then they ashen their heads and gnash their teeth over Trump appointing ONE SC justice. They demand his tax records while their operations in China and sexual assaults occur daily in shadows.

        1. You are ranting like a crackhead lunatic. It’s over dude. You’re not going to be able to save Trump. Not with a thousand bits of phony Russian propaganda about Hunter Biden.

          But you’re practiced at not having a point about anything and only being a mindless GOP-defending zombie. You’ll make up a new lie. Trump who?

  79. The concept of candidates releasing tax returns has always been a twisted invention of career politicians to inhibit outsider success. Career politicians structure their returns and finances to portray the “proper” balance, using foundations and such to hide everything else.
    Nobody’s personal finances is public information. It is legally held by government officials until strict control. It is a felony to leak or possess someones tax returns.

    It a fair country, both sides would be calling for arrests of NYT management until sources were disclosed and those sources charged with the felonies they so richly deserve. They are destroying public trust in the very institutions that support a fair and lawful society.

    Its disgusting that the author doesnt stress the unlawful behavior of the NYT and their sources. Done in an election year, not as news, but as a partisan propaganda tool, useless illegally obtained federal information.

  80. This whole discussion regarding President Trump’s tax returns broadly falls into the category of an ad hominem attack, i.e. it’s simply not intellectually rigorous. There has been from the beginning on the part of the TDS crowd the knowledge that President Trump’s tax returns would be complex enough to use them against him. I care about who President Trump nominates to the Supreme Court, whether he curtails or advances U.S. military adventurism, etc. That he is smart enough to use the U.S. swamp of a tax code to his advantage?…Well I really don’t care. More problematic is the IRS Deep State official who illegally fed these tax returns to the NY Times. When Orwellian Deep State apparatchiks answer to no one, whether in this instance, or the IRS destroying hard drives (under Obama) or wiping 22 iPhones (under Mueller), then we’ve arrived a frighteningly authoritarian state with which all Libertarians should be concerned.

  81. Those of us who have brains and use reliable sources versus mendacious Trump Derangement Syndrome Reason and NYT/WaPo, know rather that Trump paid millions in taxes. See powerlineblog.com “Trump Confesses …” and “More on Trump’s taxes” Pathetic.

  82. What does it matter what amount Donald Trump paid in taxes, if it was arrived at by the formulations given?

    The complaint is, Donald Trump used the rules to his advantage and that was supposed to happen.

  83. FYI: “fair share” = whatever the fed thugs can extort. Taxation is defined by the self-enslaved as “The price I pay for freedom” and by the sovereign as “the money stolen systematically by a coercive govt.”. Why put up with it when “you can leave”? The statists can leave also, and someday they may be in the minority, which will mean they will be shamed without a reasonable defense, unlike the voluntarists today who proudly denounce institutionalized theft and their resistance to it.

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