Reason Roundup

Can Nicotine Treat COVID-19? French Researchers Think So.

Plus: abortion bans defeated again, Peter Thiel company gets contact tracing contract, and more...


New study will test whether nicotine patches can keep the coronavirus away. The more we find out about COVID-19, the less sense it makes. Originally seen as a standard respiratory ailment that primarily affected the lungs, there's mounting evidence that COVID-19 can cause serious damage to the heart, neurological system, and kidneys, too. In young people, it's been shown to sometimes cause sudden strokes, even absent other symptoms. Doctors are also reporting COVID-19 patients with blood clots.

One particularly weird element is conflicting reports on whether cigarette smokers are more or less likely to get COVID-19 and whether they have worse cases if they do.

Now, in France, they're testing whether nicotine may help prevent COVID-19 infections.

It might sound zany at first, or like a piece of bad satire about French people (What's next, testing to see if baguettes and brie cure COVID-19?), but there's actually good evidence that nicotine plays a role in regulating humans' response to the virus.

"It's an interesting possibility," and "we'll know more soon," French Health Minister Olivier Veran said on France Inter radio this week.

The mitigating effect of nicotine could explain conflicting results on smokers and COVID-19.

Initially, high rates of smoking in places like China and Italy were offered as reasons why the illness might be striking these places especially hard. In Wuhan, China, "the percent of current and former smokers were higher among the severe cases: 17% and 5%, respectively, than among the nonsevere cases (12% and 1%, respectively)," according to an article published in Nicotine & Tobacco Research on April 3.

Worse outcomes for smokers still might be the case—smoking involves a lot more than just nicotine, and many of the health issues seen in long-term smokers are the same underlying conditions that have been found to provoke more severe symptoms of COVID-19.

Yet "doctors at the Pitie-Salpetriere hospital in Paris observed that few Covid-19 patients hospitalized were smokers," notes Bloomberg.

Some have theorized this away by noting that old age is a hospitalization risk factor, and smokers are less likely to live to an older age. But others are trying to tease out whether there's a possible mechanism by which smoking could prove protective.

"Based on the current scientific literature and on new epidemiological data which reveal that current smoking status appears to be a protective factor against the infection by [COVID-19], we hypothesize that the nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (nAChR) plays a key role in the pathophysiology of Covid-19 infection and might represent a target for the prevention and control of Covid-19 infection," wrote French researchers in an April 21 paper.

How would this work? Well, it's known that COVID-19 binds to a protein in the human body called angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2), and previous research has shown that nicotine helps regulate ACE2 expression. The authors of the paper hypothesize a way in which this could contribute to a lessening of the hyper-inflammation thought to be responsible for some of the worst cases of COVID-19.

"Until recently, no firm conclusions could be drawn from studies evaluating the rates of current smokers in Covid-19," states the paper. More:

All these studies, although reporting low rates of current smokers, ranging from 1.4% to 12.5%, did not take into account the main potential confounders of smoking including age and sex.

In the study that two of us are reporting, the rates of current smoking remain below 5% even when main confounders for tobacco consumption, i.e. age and sex, in- or outpatient status, were considered. Compared to the French general population, the Covid-19 population exhibited a significantly weaker current daily smoker rate by 80.3 % for outpatients and by 75.4 % for inpatients. Thus, current smoking status appears to be a protective factor against the infection by SARS-CoV-2.

Although the chemistry of tobacco smoke is complex, these data are consistent with the hypothesis that its protective role takes place through direct action on various types of nAChRs expressed in neurons, immune cells (including macrophages), cardiac tissue, lungs, and blood vessels.

No one is suggesting that people take up smoking to ward off the new coronavirus. But nicotine can be introduced into the body in ways other than smoking—French scientists will be using nicotine patches for their upcoming study. And synthetic substitutes for nicotine may be able to overcome any possible addiction issues.

"There are substitutes to nicotine that can be developed in laboratories that would enable [users] to avoid its addictive effects," Veran said on French radio.

Back in the U.S., health regulators were warning that smoking cigarettes or vaping could increase COVID-19 complications. Food and Drug Administration officials have since backed down on the vaping aspect. "E-cigarette use can expose the lungs to toxic chemicals, but whether those exposures increase the risk of COVID-19 is not known," it told Bloomberg News.

Meanwhile, at the White House: President Donald Trump suggested in a televised Thursday night address that since disinfectants (like bleach and Lysol) work at killing the new coronavirus on surfaces outside the body, perhaps an "injection" could work as a cure. (Yes, really.)

Since then, companies like Lysol have put out statements declaring that—contra the leader of the country—injecting, ingesting, or otherwise imbibing disinfectant cleaners is not safe. (The New York Times would only attribute the don't-drink-bleach position to "some experts," as if this is really a matter up for debate…)


• New Jersey tried to tell prisoners released because of COVID-19 that they weren't allowed to talk to the media. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) intervened.

• "A federal court extended relief for Ohio patients today by continuing to block the Ohio Department of Health from using its COVID-19 order to ban abortion access," the ACLU announced Thursday. In addition, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit rejected Alabama's attempt to reverse an earlier court ruling against its attempted abortion ban.

• Researchers wonder whether COVID-19 will create demographic change, disproportionately killing off Trump voters, who tend to skew older.

• In case you had any doubt about whether to voluntarily participate in contact tracing app efforts, this should swing you firmly into stay-the-hell-away territory.

NEXT: COVID-19 Could Force City Planners To Rethink Their Priorities

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342 responses to “Can Nicotine Treat COVID-19? French Researchers Think So.

  1. New study will test whether nicotine patches can keep the coronavirus away.

    Did Trump tell everyone to start smoking now???

    1. Nah, use the patch and huff Lysol.

      1. It only works with Zinc.

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    2. Wasn’t it a study out of France that started the hydroxychloroquine goose chase?

    3. Smoke ‘em if ya got ‘em.

      1. You have to give them points for thinking outside la boîte.

        1. Do we take points away for hypocrisy? Because you want to ban people here for boorish behavior, but don’t think that calling people Trump dick suckers is boorish.

          1. There isn’t any place where I have done that.

            1. And I’m not claiming you did you thick skulled hypocrite. Have you reported anyone who does say that?

              1. I haven’t reported anyone for anything.

                At least not since a long time ago. The flagging mechanism is pretty useless.

                I asked for anyone who wants to improve the moderation of the comments section to join me in writing to Reason management.

                1. Let me try the question again. Will you be writing to Reason management about the people, including your buddy DOL, who say that people that don’t hate Trump suck his cock?

                2. Yeah that’s what I thought you dishonest hypocrite.

    4. Hello.

      Nicotine? Now the narratives are really blownsss upped!

      30 years of anti-smoking campaigns can go in puffs!

      Tell you what, all you fancy doctors can figure this out on your own time. In the meantime, END THE LOCKDOWNS.

      Our response and reaction in North American has been a disgraceful, immoral clusterfcuck of incompetence.

      1. Like it’s formerly maligned but currently enthusiastically enbraced cousin cannabis, the benefits of nicotine have been known for many years. But because smoking is bad, mkay, the facts are routinely censored because prohibitionists can’t tolerate facts.

    5. If nicotine kept this thing away, then how did it ever take root in East Asia? I.e., the land that never heard of a No Smoking sign.

    6. Chew, baby, chew!

    7. What this virus needs is a good ten-dollar cigar.

    8. It would be unimaginably sweet if vaping nicotine turned out to be an especially good treatment for Covid-19. Like hitting a quinella of public policy against the smart money on both bets.

      What else would it have to be to turn this into a trifecta? Maybe if someone found out Trump had twitted as much a month ago?

      1. “It would be unimaginably sweet if vaping nicotine turned out to be an especially good treatment for Covid-19.”
        You looking to get banned from Facebook?

    9. Paper on nicotine, ivermection and a7 nicotinic receptors.

      nAChR encoded by 17 genes
      Alpha-7 nicotinic receptor, Type II Neuronal Type (Alpha-8 is also II)
      Major (a7)_5 subtype of nAChR involved in some of the cognitive effects of nicotine.
      Genes CHRNA7, CHRNA8
      – Agonists
      – Positive Allosteric Modulators (PAMs)
      – Antagonists
      Bupropion (very weakly)

      nicotinic receptor antagonists interfere with the baroreflex that normally corrects changes in blood pressure by sympathetic and parasympathetic stimulation of the heart

      Is it that the virus blocks the acetylcholine preventing from nicotinic receptors, while the nicotine preserves firing and #ivermection enhances it?

  2. President Donald Trump suggested in a televised Thursday night address that since things like bleach work at killing the new coronavirus on surfaces outside the body, perhaps Americans could “inject” disinfectant as a cure.

    Great, now the supermarket is really going to be sold out of bleach.

    1. Only cash injections will work.

    2. Yeah, ENB: I’m going to need to see the actual video clip for that claim. Trump says some stupid stuff, but that’s a Biden-ism if I ever heard one.

      1. Yeah, I’ve seen a quote of his exact words. ENB is a fucking hack anymore.

        1. ENB is a fucking hack. You’re a half-educated, anti-social bigot. Trump’s comments are ridiculed by everyone excerpt half-educated, anti-social bigots.

          Everybody has problems.

          1. Oh revisionist…you so crazy.

            Shame your mother didn’t abort you.

          2. You seem to have many.

          3. And your entire persona is based on a childhood of being beaten by bigger, stronger boys. You should get therapy and try to deal with those insecurities in a more effective manner.

        2. “So supposing we hit the body with a tremendous — whether it’s ultraviolet or just a very powerful light — and I think you said that hasn’t been checked because of the testing,” Trump said, speaking to Bryan during the briefing. “And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or some other way, and I think you said you’re going to test that, too.”

          He added: “I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? As you see, it gets in the lungs, it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that.”


          1. Wow, just wow.

          2. Trump spit balling like any other person around the water cooler.
            Note light and UV rays are used in some medical instances and can be introduce into the body. ever had a colonoscopy it has a camera and a light. Asking “if there is a way” is fine he didn’t say do it. And I’m sure he is not the first or last. bleach may not be good for the body but neither is the crap they use to destroy cancer.

            1. BTW Doctors have already said spend more time in daylight so nothing out of the ordinary here

              1. Sure and if you are out in daylight you are already walking around, breathing fresh air and doing something healthy which is also good for mental health.

                So far as colonoscopies. It is dark in there.

                A the great Groucho said:

                “Outside of a dog a book is a mans best friend.
                Inside of a dog it is too dark to read”

          3. There is only a single word wrong with that quote and that is his use of “disinfectant” instead of “antiseptic”. They often have the exact same active ingredient just in lower concentrations for the “antiseptic”. Talk about overreacting…

          4. [I]s there a way we can do something like that…?

            What kind of tendentious moron would someone have to be to take Trump’s asking whether “something like that by injection” was possible means he thinks you could inject disinfectant?

        3. For those who care about the Reason commentariat and are tired of boorish behavior. Join me in writing to Reason management and asking for stronger moderation:

          – David Nott, President, Reason Foundation, davidnott (at reason dot org)
          – Jennifer Kambara, Director of Supporter Relations, jennifer.kambara (at reason dot org)
          – Nick Gillespie, nick (at reason dot org)
          – Katherine Mangu-Ward, kmward (at reason dot org)
          – Ronald Bailey, rbailey (at reason dot org)

          Let’s stop putting up with it.

          1. what is a male Karen called?

            1. A Morty, apparently.

            2. Karen.
              There is no male and female any more.

              1. yeah this. Karen is a being.

          2. Good idea. I do not support banning boorish behavior, though. I support banning the use of sock accounts and threats of violence. We would be better off without Tulpa and the two worst offenders of threatening violence: Nardz and Shitlord. The other morons, like lovecon89, Jesse, and Sevo we will just have to tolerate.

            1. That makes sense. You put your finger on the problem better than my description of “boorish”.

              1. Ahh, I see. You just needed to figure out the correct criteria to ban the correct people.

            2. You Karens really don’t know what the definition of the word “threat” is

              1. You are the worst offender. On more than one occasion, you have made threats to find out where I live and fight me.

                I do have to give you that when I called you on it, you backed off. But you shouldn’t be making threats to other commenters. Much worse problem than a “Karen” is a bully who is threatening real whole violence against another commenter.

                1. Feel free to provide a quote

          3. Ha Ha! All libertarians want more rules! What a dope.

            1. Yes, more rules from a private entity that pays the squirrel bills around here.

            2. Libertarians love rules. Mutually agreed-upon rules.

              1. I remember when you were a libertarian instead of a statist. But your hatred of Trump and you fear of the virus have shown your true colors.

                1. Anyone who doesn’t believe TDS is real just needs to read some of the articles and comments here.

          4. Nothing says free minds like censorship.

            1. It’s not censorship if Reason imposes stronger moderation on a website they own.

              1. It literally is. Words have meaning, Mr. O’Brien.

                1. Sorry, your link isn’t working.


                    Seriously, you don’t know what censor/censhorship actually mean?

                    1. He heard that 1A only applies to the government, then applied it to all censorship. He’s not very bright.

          5. So Morty doesn’t like free speech or is scared to read what others may write since it may hold truths Morty doesn’t like

          6. But you don’t consider calling people Trump dick suckers boorish so this little control fantasy might backfire.

          7. Morty, go fuck yourself. Hard.

      2. I did a Google search and read in context with my wife who was all ‘OMG did you see what Trump sa…” Read quote. “Oh.”

        Yes, really.

      3. The claim is made up. If you watch, or read (which seems to much for ENB), he was talking about UV and light (as well as humidity). He basically said disinfectant in regards to sunlight being a disinfectant. They literally cut a single line out of a 90 second discussion on sunlight to imply he said something he didn’t.

      4. At about the 0:45 second mark:

        It’s worth watching the entire video, because it is probably Trump’s stupidest moment.

        1. You proving this was taken out of context and then inferring it was in context, isnt even close to your stupidest moments.

          1. For those who care about the Reason commentariat and are tired of boorish behavior. Join me in writing to Reason management and asking for stronger moderation:

            – David Nott, President, Reason Foundation, davidnott (at reason dot org)
            – Jennifer Kambara, Director of Supporter Relations, jennifer.kambara (at reason dot org)
            – Nick Gillespie, nick (at reason dot org)
            – Katherine Mangu-Ward, kmward (at reason dot org)
            – Ronald Bailey, rbailey (at reason dot org)

            Let’s stop putting up with it.

            1. ok, Karen

            2. Freedom through suppression!

              Hate speech isn’t free speech!

              1. Free speech is a concept applying to the commons. We are not communicating in a public commons when we are on a website owned by the Reason Foundation.

                1. You’re still advocating for censorship. Are you so afraid of the weakness of your positions that you can’t take any criticism?

                  1. Oh look, a new commenter! Welcome! I bet you totally don’t drive a Mini Cooper.

                    1. Oh look, the guy who still thinks we’re all going to drown in the great thermageddon. Say, how’s Bangladesh doing? What’s that you say? land mass is increasing? UNPOSSIBLE!

                      I’m not new. Reason played games and I created a new account.

                    2. Everyone is going to die!


                      Mymensingh, Bangladesh — New varieties of rice made using nuclear techniques have helped Bangladesh increase its rice production three-fold in the last few decades. This in turn has enabled the country to stay one step ahead of its rapid population growth. Today there is a secure and steady supply of rice in Bangladesh, and the country is shifting from being an importer to an exporter of rice.

                    3. Haha, gotcha.

            3. Except for calling people Trump dick suckers, right? Because that’s the correct way to be boorish.

            4. HyR’s slogan is (or was) “news, views, and abuse”, so…?

            5. Morty, go fuck yourself. Hard.

          2. He added: “I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? As you see, it gets in the lungs, it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that.”

            Yes, Trump speaks in a bit of a word salad, but he is clearly changing the subject from talking about ultraviolet light to talking about injecting disinfectant. There’s no way to spin around it.

            1. Idiot.

            2. We use all sorts of dangerous chemicals to cure people all the time. what the hell do you think most vaccines are, they are minute amounts of dangerous virus that the body can withstand. get over your stupidity.

              1. In this entire thread, did I ever call any other commenter stupid? No, I called the President stupid. You had to make it personal — that’s an example of the boorish behavior I am talking about.

                1. Easy test. Should the dear Rev. Kirkland be moderated out of existence?

                  1. “Should the dear Rev. Kirkland be moderated out of existence?”

                    No, but I really wouldn’t mind an Ignore button.

                    1. Explain how that doesn’t meet his standard.

                    2. Oh, my feelings about Morty and his ilk are down thread, under a reply to you, where you co-opted his shtick.

                      Basically, it’s not that hard to get along here, even if you disagree with the commentariat on something. If you still don’t like it here, go back to Quora, and/or stop whining. It’s you, not them.

                      That Kirkland, in a later post, said he went back through this thread and flagged every one of Morty’s posts, is hilarious.

                    3. Go read it again. That wasn’t Kirkland. And Morty doesn’t have a problem with Kirkland, because this has nothing to do with “boorishness” and everything to do with trying to silence what he doesn’t want to hear.

                      Morty the Pearl Clutcher shows up every few months, puts on his ashes and sack cloth, and asks why can’t we think of the children?! But it’s always very selective outrage.

                    4. For the record I am Kuckland not kirkland

                    5. “Go read it again. That wasn’t Kirkland.”

                      Ugh. I blame Tulpa for starting that shit, of closely mimicking a posters’s ID and/or constantly changing ID’s. That is one thing I wouldn’t mind the website owners putting a stop to. Oh well, price we pay for uncensored moderation.

                    6. Or, you know, we could ask for better moderation, and actually put a stop to the kind of things Tulpa does.

                      There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking for quality moderation on a private website.

                2. Touched a nerve? how did I make it personal by stating some facts about medical procedures. I really don’t thinks so but enlighten me

                  1. Maybe my remark “what the Hell” but if you can call people stupid no matter who you’ve called stupid, if you can’t take the heat then don’t call anyone stupid.

                    1. I did call you stupid, not sorry, again if you can’t take the heat get out of the comment sections

              2. What? The whole point of a phase I trial is to make sure a drug is not toxic at therapeutic doses.

                1. Did repeating what he said add value?

                2. No, it is to make sure it is to see if the benefits outweigh the risks. Otherwise no medications would ever make it past phase 1. All of the following medications carry serious health risks acetaminophen, Motrin, gentamicin, every opoiod, warfarin, digoxin, doxycycline, etc.

                3. Even at therapeutic levels all the drugs I listed carry a fairly decent risk of causing adverse health effects including death.

    3. Trumps comment is great! Don’t you get it. When he suggested cloraquine could help a proggi cunt poisened herself and her husband. If this leads to a bunch of proggi retards injecting poison to prove him wrong it will be a bonus

    4. And the media falls for it again.

      I wonder if Trump makes bets every day on what he can say, whether people will take him literally, and how much hair will catch fire.

      1. The funny thing is as soon as he said it, I knew that ENB would portray it this way.

        So now I’ve got a new game! Watch the press conference, and guess what ENB will lie about the next morning. I’m 1-0 so far!

    5. I see ENB is pushing this idiotic claim too.

      Either she’s more Human Scum, or just another dupe of the Human Scum.

      Disappointing either way.

      1. Unless you go and read the full transcript, you’re simply falling for the lies of Human Scum.

        Sullum the Human Scum does have a link to the White House transcript in his article.


    And studies also show that when a parent dies by suicide, children’s risk also increases, Singer added. “So, this could last years.”


      Forcing Americans to abandon their workplaces and lock themselves in their homes creates a wide variety of ill effects. Sure, they might be safe from the virus but they will suffer in many other ways.

      Domestic violence is surging worldwide as people are sheltering in place alongside abusers. Calls to a national suicide hotline last month increased by 900% over the same time last year. Necessary doctor appointments are being postponed by weeks, despite undiagnosed cancer being at least as fatal as COVID-19.

      Add to that the mass layoffs, furloughs and shuttered small businesses. Economic decline is always associated with increases in substance abuse, crime and declines in physical and mental health. As if severe recessions weren’t awful enough on their own.

        Coronavirus and Poverty: A Mother Skips Meals So Her Children Can Eat
        Americans with tight financial resources have fewer options as they navigate coronavirus closures and layoffs.


            But the U.N. report warned that “economic hardship experienced by families as a result of the global economic downturn could result in an hundreds of thousands of additional child deaths in 2020, reversing the last 2 to 3 years of progress in reducing infant mortality within a single year.”

            1. Better that thousands of kids on the other side of the planet die so that one demented octogenarian lives a few more years in the home, and his privileged upper-middle class kids can postpone a short episode of guilt.

              1. But what about Karen?

                Lockdown ends the second Karen’s husband loses his job and she shifts from “stay at home to keep me safe” to “get the fuck back out there and work to keep me safe”

                1. or more likely when Karen’s ex husband stops making the alimony payments because he is out of work.

                  1. then the ex get to go to prison for non-payment but its hard to pay alimony when in jail but so many Karens never think that one through

                    1. Nah, Karen will just use this to turn the kids’ against the imprisoned father. She’ll use it to her advantage.

                  2. Most of the Karens I’m seeing that are demanding we remain shut until the heat death of the universe are married, upper-middle class women. They’re usually the ones who “Self-Employed” in their social media files, but don’t appear to actually do anything other than spend their husband’s money on their various flights of fancy.

  4. During the 1990s there were some nights where NYC held about 22,000 people in its jails.

    Elect Biden and we can get those numbers back up!

    1. He’s gonna put y’all back in chains?

      1. You kid but back in the 1980s the Democrats claimed that Reagan didn’t do enough to stop the “crack epidemic” because he was racist and didn’t care. So, the Democrats, including all the usual black “community leaders” demanded the passage of minimum mandatory sentencing with a special emphasis on long sentences for federal defendants convicted of selling or trafficking crack cocaine to save their communities.

        If you had any memory of what actually happened when they passed the Federal Sentencing Reform Act of 1984 and when the sentencing reform guidelines were published in 86 and 87, listening to the Democrats claim crack sentencing disparities were racist and the result of evil racist Republicans was pretty fucking galling to say the least.

  5. New Jersey tried to tell prisoners released because of COVID-19 that they weren’t allowed to talk to the media.

    Don’t talk about flight club.

  6. Y’all remember the mass deaths in 2005, don’t y’all?

    Bird flu pandemic ‘could kill 150m’
    James Sturcke

    Fri 30 Sep 2005 10.23 EDT

    A global influenza pandemic is imminent and will kill up to 150 million people, the UN official in charge of coordinating the worldwide response to an outbreak has warned.

    David Nabarro, one of the most senior public health experts at the World Health Organisation, said outbreaks of bird flu, which have killed at least 65 people in Asia, could mutate into a form transmittable between people.

    “The consequences in terms of human life when the pandemic does start are going to be extraordinary and very damaging,” he said.

    He told the BBC that the “range of deaths could be anything between five and 150 million”.

    …Last month Neil Ferguson, a professor of mathematical biology at Imperial College London, told Guardian Unlimited that up to 200 million people could be killed.

    “Around 40 million people died in 1918 Spanish flu outbreak,” said Prof Ferguson. “There are six times more people on the planet now so you could scale it up to around 200 million people probably.”

    1. ‘Flattening the Curve,’ And Other Lies
      First, most of you spent several decades essentially rewarding Red China for the Tiananmen Square massacre by throwing open trade and granting the most murderous political apparatus in human history Most Favored Nation trade status. The result of that has been to help build a hostile world superpower rival we didn’t have after the fall of the Soviet Union, at the expense of our manufacturing base. You thought that was a good idea, partially because you’re naive and stupid and partially because you were bought off, but what we ended up with is a rogue regime that cooks up infectious diseases in laboratories, incompetently lets them out into the open and proceeds to lie about them for months while the World Health Organization, which you put us on the hook to fund with hundreds of millions of dollars of our money, covers up for China despite their providing barely a tenth of what we do.

      Great move.

      …Lives are more important than money, right? Except you’ve spent decades pushing government programs aimed at redistributing wealth on us based on the premise, which we’ve been promised is true (and might well be), that poverty, unemployment, and social isolation create catastrophic health outcomes. So making the whole country broke, unemployed, and unable to interact in person with their friends is now a good idea … because of this virus?

      1. Just another dumb opinion piece.

        1. No comment on the first one he posted though, huh?

          1. Of course not. And I’m telling Morty on him for it.

  7. A federal court extended relief for Ohio patients today by continuing to block the Ohio Department of Health from using its COVID-19 order to ban abortion access…

    So then we can or can’t add any loss of life resulting from the procedures to the COVID-19 tally?

    1. Both, depending on your narrative.

  8. Researchers wonder whether COVID-19 will create demographic change, disproportionately killing off Trump voters, who tend to skew older.

    “Researchers” know how much those New Yorkers love voting Republican.

    1. Even the worst case scenarios have this virus killing 250,000 Americans. Of even that small number, how many of them even vote? The usual voting rate is around 50%. Lets be optimistic and say it is 60% among that group. So, we are now talking 150,000 dead voters. Trump got something like 48% of the vote. Lets again be liberal here and say 75% of the dead voters are Trump voters. That leaves us about 115,000 dead Trump voters give or take but also 35,000 dead Democrats or a net gain for the Democrats of 80,000 votes in an election that will have well over 60 million votes.

      Yeah, that is a huge demographic change. Are these “researchers” retarded?

      1. I bet if it straight up killed 250,000 Trump voters right down the ballot lines, the lockdown response has created at least as many ‘never democrat’ voters.

      2. “….Even in that best-case scenario, the federal public health agency projects that a total of 4,400 to 44,000 Canadians could die of COVID-19 in the coming months.

        In the middle of that range, if 2.5 to 5 per cent of Canadians are infected in the course of the pandemic, the country would see 11,000 to 22,000 deaths…”

        We’re at 2000 (57 deaths per million). Sounds really puny to me.

        So the 4 400 could happen I suppose.

        But notice the leash they give themselves. That’s by design for two reasons. One, if it doesn’t reach the high end (likely) they can always say ‘See? We saved you!”. Two, allows them the ‘flexibility’ to justify future draconian measures.

  9. I don’t see how the antibody studies in California and New York don’t settle the issue. Everyone knows the crude death rates based on number of people who tested positive versus deaths are bogus since so few people have been tested compared to the population. Both the antibody studies show the actual infection rate to be ten times or more greater than the tested infection numbers and the actual fatality rate 10 times less. It looks to me like we have a virus that has an overall fatality rate in the population of about 8 tenths of a percent with those fatalities concentrated in those who are over 70 and have other comorbidities. I don’t see any other reasonable way to interpret the data.

    Given that, there is no longer any justification for keeping the economy closed. Isolate nursing homes and tell old people and fat people to lay low for a couple of months while this thing burns itself out in the general population. I don’t blame the politicians for making the decision they did because they had bad and incomplete information. But, it seems we now have much better information and the decisions we make based on that need to be different.

    1. Don’t worry, John. Something else will come up as a confounding unknown. I’m thinking it’ll be cat-human transmission.

      1. We all must lose our jobs and go broke so that cat ladies may live.

        1. “Trump Suggests People Eat Cat Droppings”

        2. Cat Lady gets Biden VP nod.

          1. Cat lady gets Biden finger

      2. Wave 2 is the confounding unknown. We can’t leave our houses until all viruses everywhere are killed.

        1. It will mutate into something even worse in the fall or something.

      3. It has already been demonstrates that cats can become infected with COVID 19, both wild and domesticated. That’s why I am a dog and cattle guy.
        In honesty though I would not be surprised if it can be transmitted to and from canines also.

    2. Someone has to have the courage and say, ‘Ok, thanks Dr. Fauci the greatest hero since St. Cyril and The Greatest American Hero, but we’ll take it from here. We may have over reacted but now we must continue with the routines of life… reality, there should have been a more targeted approach while never disrupting our socio-economic cadence.”

      1. I would just like one person to ask Fauci how in his ideal world people would interact with each other without the covid. Fuck the dude needs to be straight jacketed.

        1. Size extra-small?

    3. Unfortunately they cast a wide enough net of comorbidity to catch a big segment of the population even after subtracting double and triple counting:
      Hypertension (42% – up from 32% courtesy of a new definition)
      Diabetes (10.5%)
      Hyperlipidemia (12.4%)
      Coronary Artery Disease (9%, excluding hypertension)
      Dementia (old people)
      Renal Disease (15%)
      Atrial Fibrillation (2% 65)
      COPD (3.8 – 12%)
      Cancer (approximately 38.4% will be diagnosed with cancer at some point during their lifetimes)
      Stroke – 795,000 per year

    4. 0.8% is still way too high an estimate.

    5. Because John that would be admitting they were wrong. They can’t say oh woops you lost your job and business are bad Fuck you pay us. which is coming. They are staying the course.
      seems to me VA is going to save the course till June for a number of reasons. One they are backstopped by the amount of feds in the north which provides a buffer for both unemployment and there is some liquidity in the area for when things open. Two unemployment runs out July so it gives these unemployed a couple of months of staggered benefits to find work. Three I really think the strategy has been from the beginning to bridge this to the summer(virus is tamped down by warm weather) to allow for the development of a vaccine or a treatment plan for the second wave. What you’re seeing is the states revolting that just couldn’t afford to stay the course. Of course none of them can afford to stay the course but since the gov are completely economically illiterate about how business works this was the plan. They keep setting two week wait and see deadlines to just keep moving the football for business’s who are still putting along or drowning so there’s some light at the end of the tunnel and they don’t lay off their workers and just shutter. This is the most flagrant and disgusting thing I’ve ever witnessed in my life,

      1. Governor Coonman is a lesson in the dangers of term limits. As I understand it, Coonman is prohibited from running for re-election. The only reason he is still in office is because the far left decided that it was okay for white guys to dress in black face and call themselves “coonman” as long as said white guy was one of their own. From that moment on they owned his ass. Since Coonman can’t run for re-election, there is no advantage to trying to appeal to moderates. Meanwhile, if he does anything except what the far left demands he do, they will suddenly decide he might be a racist and he is done. And any future political career is done anyway. Thanks to term limits, the state of Virginia’s governor is now effectively being held hostage by the far left.

        1. There are no dangers to term limits. Politics should never be a career.

          1. You are seeing it in Virginia. If a politician knows he can’t be re-elected, then he is totally unaccountable to the public once he gets in office. The threat of being sent back to private life is a real and really only deterrent that politicians understand. Take that away and tell them they are leaving office no matter what, and they no longer have any deterrent. And you are kidding yourself if you think term limits prevent politics from being a carreer. They just run for different offices or go into lobbying, which is just politics with better pay and without having to worry about voters.

            1. So John, repeal the 22nd Amendment?

              The same argument apply to a 2nd term President that you’re making about Northam.

              1. Or maybe you compromise and never limit an office to one term. If a politician get’s through one term and is re-elected, that at least should weed out most of the real bosos.

          2. Term limits for politicians is the wrong angle. You need term limits on bureaucrats. That’s where the real power is and it’s virtually untouchable.

            1. I’m for the spoils system at this point. At least take away public employees right to collectively bargain.

              1. The problem with the spoils system is that Republicans are too incompetent and nowhere near ruthless enough to function in it. Democrats are ruthless and understand the importance of the bureaucracy. There are actually are people in the bureaucracy who are competent and not liberal partisans. They are a minority but they exist. If you got rid of tenure and went to a spoils system that number would go to zero. The democrats would fire anyone who wasn’t a fanatical leftist and the Republicans would be too stupid and incompetent to fix it when they got into power. Republicans would just keep all of the Democrats trusting that they were good people who would do the right thing. I am not kidding.

        2. Governor ‘Phailing’ Phil Murphy of the People’s Republic of NJ is an example of another prize. This guy is just incompetent….truly and utterly incompetent. He and his team totally blew it when it comes to Wuhan coronavirus testing. Phailing Phil can’t deliver tests to physical test sites, and NJ currently has a 10+ day backlog in delivering test results to patients. That is astoundingly incompetent performance in 2020. And this is after a month+ of focused effort.

          Phailing Phil maintains our civil liberties being restricted has to be addressed at a ‘higher paygrade than mine’. The fool. The least he could do is to ‘own’ his utterly wretched performance.

          1. The truth is Fatso really was about the best New Jersey could do for a governor. Holy cow must that be depressing for the people who live there. Same way with New York City. Everyone rightfully hated Bloomberg, but we have now found out with DiBlasio, Bloomberg was the best available option.

            1. Stalin was better than Mao isn’t saying much.

            2. The state Legislature, and especially the NJ Supreme Court are no great shakes either. The legislature is more or less bought and paid for by public sector unions. It is pathetic.

    6. I don’t blame the politicians for making the decision they did because they had bad and incomplete information. But, it seems we now have much better information and the decisions we make based on that need to be different.

      Disagree. I don’t choose leaders who can make the best decision with the information given. Public education is supposed to generate a majority of people who can do that. I can program computers to do that. I choose leaders who do the right thing when the data isn’t clear. Anybody, educated or not, can make bad decisions based on poor data. Leaders are supposed be strategic thinkers, shut down the economy first and ask questions later is the wrong answer. I could conceivably agree that shutting down parts of the economy is a reasonable course of action but, again, being strategic thinkers, there should be an ‘escape plan’ or sunset clause that recognizes that shutting down the economy permanently is not the permanent fix.

      1. Shutting down the economy is the wrong decision right up until it isn’t. You want leaders who magically make the right decisions even when they have bad or incomplete information. I am sorry but that is retarded and that sort of attitude is part of the reason why people in authority are so loath to back down or take responsibility for a bad decision. People like you are incapable of understanding that sometimes there are no good options or that sometimes taking a risk doesn’t pan out.

        1. How about if we just don’t want leaders with the scope of power to mandate wholesale restrictions on people?

          1. The truth is that the governors haven’t done anything illegal. Public health powers are enormous. I don’t think many people understood just how powerful state governments are in these situations.

            One of the things that I hope comes out of this is the public having a better understanding of the federal system and how it works. Everyone focuses on the President because that is what the media does. But the truth is outside of the border, the President no matter who he is is just a cheerleader. It is the governors who have all the power and make all the important decisions. Yeah, the President and the CDC can make reccomendations but that is all they are. The governors can tell the feds to go get bent and do whatever the hell they want to do in these situations. Indeed, Trump has been calling for the country to start re-opening for a couple of weeks now. And it hasn’t happened because Trump isn’t the guy who makes the decisions. The governors are.

            So, if you don’t like what happened here, then you need to advocate for restricting state powers in declared health emergencies. That is the debate that needs to happen. Sadly, it likely won’t and everyone will just spend the aftermath yelling at each other about Trump or Orange Man Bad or whatever.

            1. But the truth is outside of the border, the President no matter who he is is just a cheerleader.

              No, that is the way it’s *supposed* to work. As we saw with King Barry they can act like dictators and Reason is just fine with that as long as they get their way.

            2. That is certainly the case for the People’s Republic of NJ. Phailing Phil and a willing ‘Duma’ passed draconian civil liberty restrictions for ‘an indeterminate amount of time’, which to me has to be plainly unconstitutional because it is so open-ended.

              The People’s Republic courts are closed, so you cannot even appeal it.

              1. At some point it will become unconstitutional because there will no longer be any way to say there is an emergency such that these measures are both rational and narrowly tailored to meet a compelling government interest. So, they cannot do it indefinitely. But they can do it for a while.

          2. ^This.

        2. Maybe I should be more clear. Some states could conceivably afford a temporary shutdown. Some states could afford partial shutdowns. Some states could afford neither. It’s pretty apparent that many of the states with the most onerous shutdowns fall into the “can’t shut down”.

          There’s making a bad decision. Making bad decisions serially or iteratively, and then there’s throwing good money after bad. I have 26.7 trillion reasons (actually more than
          2X that if you consider unfunded obligations) to think we’ve been doing the latter far too frequently and for far too long.

    7. John is once again proving himself the most reasonable republican in these comments.

      See guys, we can agree that the virus is real, and it is not a cold, and yes, it’s worse than the flu, without agreeing to government overreach and overreaction. We can also excuse (or at least not jump to ridiculous conspiracy theories) such over reaction when people were operating with limited information, and making the best decisions they could with what they had.

      Of course, this all acceptable coming from John, but if anyone voiced that opinion while also being critical of Trump, well, that’s communism!

      1. Now do democrats. Oh wait, that’s different.

      2. I think it is fair to say Trump fucked up and put too much weight on the opinion of the experts. You certainly listen to the doctors in this situation but you don’t let them make the decisions. The doctors will always err on the side of caution and demand everything be closed. There are other interests at play here that doctors don’t consider. Trump should have been more skeptical of their opinion and more circumspect in taking their advice.

        1. We live in times where following experts on everything is waning and “fuck experts” populism is waxing. Even so, if you are going to go with rules by experts, you need to consult both medical and economic experts in a crisis that involved both.

          Of course, someone like Dr. Fauci is not going to show any concerns for the economy. When it comes to economics, he has no expertise.

          1. Expert authority isn’t moral authority. Fauci might be able to tell you what the effects on public health of a given action are, and it appears here he couldn’t even do that correctly, but he can’t tell you what the “right” decision is. The decision is a value decision. Fauci has no more moral authority over that than anyone else.

            The reason why people have turned on experts is not because they no longer respect expert authority. They have turned on experts because experts have wrongly tried to claim their expert authority gives them moral authority to make decision they do not have.

            1. The reason why people have turned on experts is not because they no longer respect expert authority. They have turned on experts because experts have wrongly tried to claim their expert authority gives them moral authority to make decision they do not have.

              At the same time, the rise in education and telecommunication has made the power play between subject matter expert and moral authority more apparent.

              1. The internet has also revealed how many fields that give us “experts” are just cargo cults. Fields like education and most of the social sciences are just cargo cults whose “experts” lack even expert authority much less any moral authority.

                My favorite is “ethicists”. Every time the media trots out an expert “ethicist” it is to justify the most horrific and unethical things imaginable.

            2. That, and we keep being asked to follow experts’ opinions on areas outside their expertise.

              1. Are you an expert on boorish behavior? Because personally I think calling people Trump dick suckers is boorish, but you don’t.

                And while I’m no expert on hypocrisy, I can confidently say you are a hypocrite.

            3. It’s also because so many “experts” have turned out to be utterly incompetent dealing with real life

        2. There’s that, and there’s also evidence that shelter-in-place isn’t going to do anything other make the next wave worse, because people won’t have been exposed to milder strains and built up their immune systems from it during this wave.

          The second wave of the Spanish flu pandemic came about because servicemen brought back a more powerful strain than the one that cropped up in the US during the first wave. The ones who had been exposed to it during the first wave ended up building immunity to the stronger mutation, and rarely got sick during the second wave.

          I’ve been going out pretty much every day in spite of these social distancing and shelter in place orders, so with any luck I’ll have already been exposed to the milder strain and been asymptomatic before the next wave hits.

        3. “You certainly listen to the doctors in this situation but you don’t let them make the decisions. The doctors will always err on the side of caution and demand everything be closed.”

          Like relying on Legal and HR for what the business should be doing in a corporate context. Listen to lawyers, and no one would ever do anything for fear of liability.

          1. Exactly. A good lawyer should give better advice than that. Sadly, good lawyers are hard to find despite the huge number of them available. The proper advice is sometimes “hey let them sue us”. You don’t say it is okay to do blatantly illegal things. But, if the law is unclear, and it often is, then there is nothing wrong with saying “this is a reasonable interpretation that some judge somewhere might disagree with but if that happens you will just be wrong but not a criminal”. Sometimes that chance is worth taking.

      3. But what we can’t agree on is that posting an article by a liberal and claiming it’s a right wing article is dishonest. Because you’re a sociopath who doesn’t even realize when you’re being dishonest.

    8. Both the antibody studies show the actual infection rate to be ten times or more greater than the tested infection numbers and the actual fatality rate 10 times less.

      The amusing thing is that the guy in Italy who’s responsible for documenting all of their cases said all this WEEKS ago, and that was when they were still scrambling to treat everyone that needed it.

      1. And the cases like the cruise ship and the aircraft carrier where you had a confined population that was all exposed to it showed the same thing. Yet, they were dismissed as “anecdotes” and too small of a sample to be significant.

        One of the things about this whole thing that has really annoyed me is how so many dumb asses have misunderstood and misused the criticism that data is anecdotal. Just because data is from a small sample or anecdotal doesn’t mean it is wrong or can be automatically ignored. It is evidence and it may be true. If you are going to claim that it isn’t representative of the larger truth, then you need to explain why it isn’t. It is not enough to say that the people on the cruise ship exhibited such a small fatality rate because of good luck. That is bullshit. One person or even five people, sure. But a hundred people or whatever don’t just all have good luck at the same time and place. Just because a sample size isn’t large enough to automatically be extrapolated to the entire population, doesn’t mean it can just be dismissed either if it more than just an isolated case. There was no reason to think that people on the cruise ship were special or any different than the rest of the population. They should have paid attention to the date. Instead, they just ignored it as “anecdote” as if that means it couldn’t be true.

        1. Statistically speaking, the cruise ship probably should have been worse because those things tend to attract an older crowd that will have health issues to begin with, anyway. Not to mention the crews in the kitchens working in relatively unsanitary conditions touching everyone’s food.

          Even in normal times, I can’t understand the desire to go on a cruise. Those places are fucking bacteria farms even when there isn’t a coof bug going around.

          1. Me either. The threat of nurovirus keeps me from ever going on a cruise. I might go on one of the super high end ones that are on a smaller ship and cost like 10 grand to start. But I doubt I will ever have the money for that. Anything cheaper, forget it.

          2. Plus they really overcharge for beer. It’s like being at a sporting event for an entire week!

  10. “Researchers wonder whether COVID-19 will create demographic change, disproportionately killing off Trump voters, who tend to skew older.”

    Nope. Wrong. I’ve been informed black and brown bodies are the real victims of the #TrumpVirus, and they — regardless of age — overwhelmingly vote Democrat. (But Biden is such a fantastic candidate he’s going to win regardless.)

    1. thats right they did say that they can’t make up their minds of who it will kill off the most of. they must all be blond

  11. Give a bribe, excuse me, research grant or consulting contract, to one or more of the academics creating C19 models, mention in passing that as a ‘friend’ that academic can be told the disease is much more dangerous than most people think, and pay for/encourage a model that shuts down the US economy creating economic devastation.

    Best $1mil Chinese intelligence has ever spent?

    Lieber was one of those scientists whom federal prosecutors have identified as allegedly putting U.S. secrets at risk by double dealing: collecting $15 million in DOD and NIH grants for his work as a Harvard professor while simultaneously working as a Thousand Talents Program researcher for Beijing. Lieber was grilled about his work for the Chinese earlier this year by both federal investigators and Harvard officials and provided what the FBI called a “series of materially false, fictitious and fraudulent” statements.

    Prosecutors say Lieber created a bank account in China to hide the $50,000 monthly stipend he was getting from the Chinese—a violation of his contract with the DOD and with Harvard—and the $158,000 he received for living expenses connected to his travel to the shadow lab he created at the Wuhan University of Technology.

    …Academic institutions are now anxiously waiting for the next shoes to drop. Other universities, including the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, are securing legal teams to mitigate the expected fallout from what Massachusetts U.S. Attorney Andrew Lelling told Newsweek is “additional enforcement” aimed at rooting out academic espionage.

    “Through the use of not only traditional intelligence officers, but academics, researchers, and other private citizens, China is engaged in a massive, long-term campaign to steal U.S. research and technology for its own uses,” Lelling said. “[The Boston area] is an especially attractive target for this kind of exploitation.”

    Institutions are required to report any foreign gifts over $250,000 under the Higher Education Act. But in recent months ten schools — Cornell University, Yale University, the University of Colorado Boulder, the University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, the University of Chicago, the University of Pennsylvania, Boston University, Texas A&M University, and Carnegie Mellon University — were found to have taken more than $3.6 billion in foreign gifts, and have since filed the paperwork required under federal law, the Department of Education said. The DOE has ongoing investigations into monies that poured into Harvard and Yale.


      In 2018, the affidavit says, Dr Lieber told investigators from the defence department that he was never asked to participate in the Thousand Talents programme, but that he “wasn’t sure” how China might describe him. The fbi also says he caused Harvard to report falsely to the nih that he was not a participant in the recruitment programme (the nih requires disclosure of such foreign payments to grant applicants). Meanwhile, the email traffic quoted in the fbi affidavit describes the payments to Dr Lieber going into a Chinese bank account set up on his behalf and, on occasions he visited Wuhan, given to him in cash.

      1. This news is too local for Reason.

  12. “Researchers wonder whether COVID-19 will create demographic change, disproportionately killing off Trump voters, who tend to skew older.”

    Well that should get those Democratic governors to end the lockdowns tomorrow.

    1. Beautiful.

    2. “Researchers wonder whether COVID-19”

      Kramerica: “Ketchup and mustard in a bottle…”

      1. Feed the tuna mayonnaise

    3. Stats so far show Blue staters dying at higher rates.

      1. Ethnic cleansing within blue states to rid themselves of the remaining republicans

      2. Well then the solution is obvious… Don’t vote Democrat or Republican if you want to live!

  13. No one is suggesting that people take up smoking to ward off the new coronavirus.

    The future medical experts in the film “Sleeper” did.

  14. Hard-hitting journalism from Vice:

    Racist plaques depicting Winnie the Pooh holding a bat with chopsticks have begun to pop up around Atlanta, and police have no leads as to who is responsible.

    Do. Not. Blame. This. Virus. On. China.

    Always keep in mind the real villains in this pandemic are Drumpf and Putin.


    1. Gee maybe lying and making this virus out to be the 21st Century black death has second order effects that the liberal dumb asses who did that might not like. Who knew?

      1. WuFlu has really destoyed Reason’s narrative. Open borders has literally resulted in the deaths of Americans. The great liberalization of China never occurred (and never will). The technocrats failed, especially the models. The federal government didn’t nationalize fast enough is an awfully odd take for a purportedly libertarian rag, but no one honestly believes it is anyway. And Trumphitler has refused to be a dictator so all they have is parsing words out of context in desperation.

        1. If there is one lie that I most wish would die, it is the lie that trading with a totalitarian nation will somehow magically make it more free. We have traded with China for decades for trillions of dollars and the result is China being one of the worst police states on earth. All our trading with China has done is fund their military and police state. It hasn’t made them more free and has in fact made them more of a danger to their neighbors and the world at large.

          That doesn’t mean we haven’t benefited from the trade in many ways. Trade always does give benefits. But the claim that trading makes nations that are not free free, is just a lie that needs to die.

          1. We have enduring benefits from trade with responsible partners. A durable free market punishes fraud. Reason ignores it for the quick high of cheap shit from China while ignoring the Sword of Damocles it has become. A little bit of amphetamine is great way to be more productive and lose weight. Keep it up chronically and see how it turns out.

            Reason wets itself daily over an empirically non-problem of global warming (it’s going to be bad RSN!), but can’t comprehend that a state actor (literally a fascist state) could possibly abuse its market position to achieve its political goals because they take it as an article of faith that no country has that power or would sacrifice its own people in the process. This is an unserious and ahistorical understanding of the world. Hence, “Reason.”

            1. Reason is incapable of understanding that other nations might have bad intentions and do things that they would never do.

      2. I’m not sure you can lay that all at the feet of liberals. Shut downs were bipartisan.

    2. I thought Winnie the Pooh was a specific reference to Emperor Xi. Feel free to call me a racist, but not all Chinese people look the same to me.

      1. It is. My guess is that, when they find the person, they will be an Chinese-American, anti-communist activist.

  15. But I thought Peter Thiel was a libertarian.

    1. You probably thought Reason was too.

      1. +100000000000000000000000000

  16. If this paves the way to smoking making a come back count me the fuck way in. If we found out the Chinese were pouring money into nonsmoking campaigns that would be all the evidence I need to for sure say it was a bio weapon. 14 day gestation period, kills expensive “undesirables”, boomer ruling class most at risk, Kills mostly men, Nicotine prevents it(they have a country that smokes like a chimney) too many convenient factors to ignore at that point.

    1. Only retards smoke. Literally.

      1. Well than order me a short bus and slot at the special olympics then.

        1. Sure, just go wait on the corner.

      2. But VAPING!

    2. Even if nicotine helps a little, the risk from lung cancer and heart disease is vastly worse than the risk from Covid-19.


    Other public health experts insist, however, that lockdowns push people toward evasion, and that social distancing measures only work when governments have the public’s trust.

    “Our historical experience with mandatory quarantines and mass quarantines and cordons is just not good, it’s not effective,” said Crystal Watson, a senior scholar at the Center for Health Security at Johns Hopkins University, before the news of the Bay Area lockdown. “I do not see the need for it.”

    1. The problem is quarantines are for the already sick.

      You retards are illegally forcing HEALTHY people into a lockdown based on evolving (and sometimes laughably faulty and contradictory) scientific data.

      A day doesn’t go by where some medical expert doesn’t babble about the unknown. The entire fucken universe and human existence is unknown but let’s fucken panic over a virus.

      STOP LISTENING TO THE MEDICAL EXPERTS or else we’re gonna stay stuck in neutral.

      1. Bending the curve doesn’t change the total under of deaths under the curve. It just draws them out to prolong the total duration of the outbreak, preventing excess deaths from lack of ICU beds. Or so I was told 6 weeks ago by experts

        1. The claim is that we had to bend the curve so that the medical system didn’t get overwhelmed and kill people who needed medical care unrelated to the virus. That sounds nice until you realize they have effectively shut down the medical system as it is and people are going to start dying because of that.

        2. But that only matters if the treatment at the ICU level, i.e. ventilation, actually cured most patients. But most numbers I recall suggest 80% or more fatalities on ventilators.

          Some simple triage for ICU access (healthy 40 year old yes, demented 80 year old with advanced heart disease no) would have taken care of excess demand.

          1. “Some simple triage for ICU access (healthy 40 year old yes, demented 80 year old with advanced heart disease no) would have taken care of excess demand.”

            “Death Panels!” is how that would’ve been spun.

            You’re right, FWIW.

      2. this unknown of if you have or don’t have Kungflu reminds me of the movie “Joe vs the volcano” a crooked Dr. tells hapless Joe, Tom Hanks, that he has a brain fog, you can’t see it you can’t test for it but you have it and you are going to die. this is pretty much what is happening to us all. You may have it maybe not so hide from everyone.

    2. Quarantines only work when you have a small, known population that has the disease. If you have a guy who has SARS get on a plane who wasn’t supposed to (and yes that has happened), you quarantine him and the people on the plane. That works. But in a situation where thousands or hundreds of thousands of people have a sickness as contagious as this one, forget it. Quarantining the entire society does you no good. All you are doing it delaying the inevitable. You won’t stop the virus, you will just slow it down a bit but everyone who is fated to get the stuff is going to get it.

      1. That’s why we need 300,000 contact tracers. 300,000.
        My bs detector is pegged

      2. Exclamation point!

  18. Meanwhile, at the White House: President Donald Trump suggested in a televised Thursday night address that since disinfectants (like bleach and Lysol) work at killing the new coronavirus on surfaces outside the body, perhaps an “injection” could work as a cure. (Yes, really.)

    Well since the Uterus is disingenuously (I’m shocked!) using Vox tweets as source material for the daily lie, let’s disinfect with a little Breitbart:

    Earlier in the briefing, Dr. Bill Bryant, leader of the Science and Technology Directorate at the Department of Homeland Security, described the results of new government research that showed that the coronavirus did not survive long in solar light, warmer temperatures, and more humid conditions. He added that disinfectants had also been effective against it.

    Trump, responding to that, noted that there had been discussions of testing ultraviolet light on patients, or of methods to bring light inside the body. “And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it [the virus] out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside, or almost a cleaning, cause you see it gets in the lungs.”

    At no time did Trump actually propose injecting patients with disinfectant; he deferred to “medical doctors” to figure out how to apply Dr. Bryant’s research.

    And before that we get a multi-paragraph chin stroke about nicotine treatments based on… nothing.

    Is Reason enjoying it status as an online tabloid?

    1. How about reason just not lie? I don’t see where repeating these sorts of idiotic and easily refuted lies helps their cause. The people who run Vox are retarded and thus don’t understand that. Reason at least claims to be better than that.

      1. So which is worse: claiming to be better while obviously not, or never claiming in the first place?

      2. Because they have a trusted core of idiots like Sarcasmic, DOL, Jeff, and Chipper who will defend these lies ad nauseum as they cant’ be bothered to do their own research or read source material.

        1. For a bunch of libertarians that crowd is always ready with a state solution to every problem.

    2. Yes.

  19. Yes, Trump does not speak “presidentially”, but those who think yesterday’s musings about treatments were bizarre should look at what he actually said.
    Stuff like “is there a way we can do something like that?”

    1. I don’t like that ENB thinks we’re idiots or at least roll over like the sheep who roam Vox or whatever else media outlet she’s hooked into.

      1. If you went back the last 2 years and counted who her sources were, I bet CNN and Vox would be well over half of her source material. (Of course you’d have to exclude twitter which is in reality 75% of her source material).

        1. Barbie ENB says, “Journalism is hard!”

      2. ^this, tho I suspect she doesn’t give a fuck what the commentariat thinks, this is more an appeal to her journalo friends at Slate and Vox where she’d clearly rather be.

        1. Reply was for Rufus

    2. Yesterday Trump said massage parlors should not open yet. Do you have any idea the amount of self discipline he required for that?

      1. That or he must really hate Bill Clinton.

        1. and Al Gore

      2. Bob Kraft’s bag must’ve come late or been light.

  20. Researchers wonder whether COVID-19 will create demographic change, disproportionately killing off Trump voters, who tend to skew older.

    Now reason is hoping for deaths?

    1. Deaths for the “wrong types” of people.

    2. They always have. Free minds for those that agree on their pet issues, death for those who don’t.

    3. Progressivism has always been a death cult. Just look at the origins of PP and the single most important issue to the Uterus.

  21. “No one is suggesting that people take up smoking to ward off the new coronavirus. But nicotine can be introduced into the body in ways other than smoking”

    Ulcerative colitis is an autoimmune disease that doesn’t seem to impact smokers. No one is sure exactly why, but the effect has been isolated to nicotine specifically for a long time. But, yeah, UC is about a hyperactive response by your autoimmune system–which is also how COVID-19 kills–and nicotine has been known to shut down that hyperactive autoimmune response down for a long time.

    People with ulcerative colitis are much more likely to develop colon cancer than the general population–just like people who smoke are more likely to develop lung cancer. The reason GI doctors don’t recommend that their ulcerative colitis patients run out and start smoking is because they can take out your colon and give you a colostomy bag if you develop colon cancer, but taking out your lungs if you develop lung cancer is a non-starter.

    Anyway, it’s long been shown that the lethality of COVID-19 has to do with the virus provoking a hyperactive autoimmune response in the lungs. If nicotine is effective in preventing a hyperactive autoimmune response, however, having your lungs or heart ravaged by years of smoking would work against you if you did have such a reaction despite the nicotine.

    Meanwhile, it remains unclear whether nicotine gum or transdermal patches are effective against UC as smoking. My guess would be that the calming of the hyperactive autoimmune response by nicotine delivered from something other than smoking would most likely come from vaping because it’s also inhaled and, thus, takes a similar delivery route.

    All that being said, the likelihood of developing cancer and dying through smoking is far higher than the likelihood of dying even if you are infected with COVID-19. If nicotine gum, transdermal patches, and vaping aren’t as effective, like they apparently aren’t with UC, then starting to smoke because you want to avoid dying from COVID-19 is like jumping off a tall building in order to avoid paying taxes.

    1. A stogie a day keeps the ‘rona away.

      1. That wasn’t the central message. The central message was more like, “Shooting yourself in the foot may relieve the symptoms of a headache, but it still isn’t recommenced for obvious reasons”.

        If we really want to get rid of COVID-19, shouldn’t we nuke the site from orbit? Isn’t that the only way to be sure?

        1. Of course it is Public health institutions are retarded. Short term benefits till we get a cure.

      2. Who knew I was on the cutting edge.

    2. My guess would be that the calming of the hyperactive autoimmune response by nicotine delivered from something other than smoking would most likely come from vaping because it’s also inhaled and, thus, takes a similar delivery route.

      In the Western parts of the West, smoking enforces it’s own social distancing and there is a ‘material science’ aspect of the equation too. I’d guess COVID and quite a few other things don’t permeate and/or tolerate a dusty or smoke-filled room as readily as a clean one where the air is being reliably circulated.

    3. But the CDC spent all their time and money in 2019 on a campaign against vaping. They can’t possibly admit some therapeutic value for vaping now. And by implication admit that a witch hunt distracted them from other potentially useful work, like pandemic prep.

      1. Yeah, it needs to be studied for at least 20 years before they can tell people that vaping may be a reasonable treatment for something–in no small part because they have an interests in requiring people to study things for 20 years.

        But there are anti-inflammatory medications doctors are prescribing to people at risk of a Cytokine Storm anyway.

        I have no problem with the general guidance on this. People should certainly be free to vape because they hope it will help them avoid a hyperactive autoimmune response if they’re infected with COVID-19, but then they should be free to vape because they find it enjoyable, too. That being said, consuming a potentially addictive substance like nicotine specifically to protect yourself from a hyperactive autoimmune response probably isn’t a smart thing to do–especially if they’re going to put you on immuno-suppressants once you’re admitted to a hospital anyway.

        We should encourage people to think about these trade offs. Willfully consuming an addictive substance to avoid an unlikely event with better alternative treatments in response to COVID-19 isn’t a trade off that makes a lot of sense, and shutting down the economy in response to COVID-19 doesn’t make much sense either when you consider the trade offs, especially when people would still be free to isolate themselves if they want.


    “Stop Looking on the Bright Side: We’ll Be Screwed By the Pandemic for Years to Come,” John F. Harris, POLITICO.

    “Humans Are Too Optimistic to Comprehend the Coronavirus,” Olga Khazan, The Atlantic.

    “U.S. Exceptionalism Is Over,” Katrin Bennhold, New York Times.

    “We Are Living in a Failed State,” George Packer, The Atlantic.

    “Opening up the economy won’t save the economy,” Matthew Yglesias, Vox.

    1. ““Opening up the economy won’t save the economy,” Matthew Yglesias, Vox…”

      He’s right, but probably not for the reasons he has in mind.
      It won’t save the economy, since the ‘opening’ will be the institution of a ‘planned’ open economy.

      1. Yglesias and Vox proving again that they do not understand what an “economy” is.

    2. This makes me feel optimistic about the future. When is the last time the major media were right about anything? If they say we are doomed, it is a pretty good bet happy days are right around the corner.

      1. When was the last time they weren’t projecting? If Politico’s, The Atlantic, NYT’s, and Vox’s worlds are coming to an end, that’s reason enough to celebrate.

        If I’d known staying home for a month would’ve killed them off, I would’ve been telling people sooner.

        1. That is a good point. This thing is going to kill the media and maybe Manhattan with it. The rest of the country is likely going to come out fine. But, these idiots will never notice that.

        2. But all they know is that readership and perhaps subscriptions are way up since the shut down. Can’t let that change…

  23. It’s almost like everyone forgot that time the author said her job was to get clicks.

    1. *get dicks

      1. But only if they would pay.

  24. …health regulators were warning that smoking cigarettes or vaping could increase COVID-19 complications. Food and Drug Administration officials have since backed down on the vaping aspect.

    They see which way the wind is blowing and it likely be right back into their faces, like the advice on not needed masks,

  25. “With no coronavirus surge, hospitals slowly resume nonemergency surgery”
    Yeah, remember when we were assured the hospitals would be stacking the patients outdoors like cordwood? Those sorts of predictions by chicken littles like JFree and Hihn?
    Well, what we got instead was all the ‘advantages’ which obtain from politically-planned medical care:
    “…Surgery isn’t like a valve you can turn on and all of a sudden start doing surgeries,” said Roberts of UCSF. Even with restarting, it will take the hospital 40 weeks to get through the backlog, he added…”

    1. BTW, if you read the linked article, yes, it was that grease-ball Newsom who (under what authority, I have no idea) ‘directed’ the hospitals to suspend elective surgeries.

  26. OK, real numbers, not some chicken little bullshit:
    For the seasonal flu, we have vaccines. Some work better than others, since the are developed from predictions, and we’ve all just been given a very clear lesson in the value of MDs’ predictions; about as good as a die-toss.
    Regardless, even with these vaccines, the historical *average* annual death toll in the US is ~61K individuals.

    1. Well, as of today, the US death toll from *THE MOST HORRIBLE DISEASE – YOU WON’T BELIEVE HOW TERRIBLE IT IS – WE’REALLGONNADIEEEEEE!!!!!* stands at ~50K, with all of 68 new cases reported in the last 24H.
      And, BTW, a very large plurality of those deaths are from an outlier: NY with ~18K cases, which should raise questions regarding the claimed cause of death.
      And we, the people of a supposedly free country have allowed a pack of tin-pot-dictator wannabes to shut down 3/4 of the economy, force us into self-imprisonment and make us wear ‘I’m-a-snow-flake!’ masks.
      I’m ashamed.

      1. And we, the people of a supposedly free country have allowed a pack of tin-pot-dictator wannabes to shut down 3/4 of the economy, force us into self-imprisonment and make us wear ‘I’m-a-snow-flake!’ masks.

        “Just remember, there is no shadow government.” – Reason Magazine

  27. Can Nicotine Treat COVID-19? French Researchers Think So.

    When all you have is a hammer…

    1. For those who care about the Reason commentariat and are tired of boorish behavior. Join me in writing to Reason management and asking for stronger moderation:

      – David Nott, President, Reason Foundation, davidnott (at reason dot org)
      – Jennifer Kambara, Director of Supporter Relations, jennifer.kambara (at reason dot org)
      – Nick Gillespie, nick (at reason dot org)
      – Katherine Mangu-Ward, kmward (at reason dot org)
      – Ronald Bailey, rbailey (at reason dot org)

      Let’s stop putting up with it.

      1. It’s not that hard to get along with people here. I don’t get the whining to the teacher about how mean the other kids have been.

        Go fuck off back to Quora or Reddit if the crowd here isn’t to your taste.

      2. Go for it! If we all ask for better moderation, guys like me win.

        1. What about your lover DOL, who calls people Trump dick suckers? Will he be part of your new utopian comments section?

  28. BTW, having quit smoking some years back, I’m probably DOOMED!

  29. I heard tanning beds may show great promise in fighting Covid-19 hysteria (Chinese Biānfú-Flu for the layperson). Maybe even injecting ultraviolet light inside the body.

    1. I’m sure if VOX told you to eat your own ass, we’d find you dead from the contortions.
      Save us the effort. Fuck off and die first.

      1. I see you haven’t found that tall bridge to jump off of yet, you pathetic ignorant piece of shit!

      2. Lol. That was funnier than most.

  30. How would this work? Well, it’s known that COVID-19 binds to a protein in the human body called angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2), and previous research has shown that nicotine helps regulate ACE2 expression.

    I was curious if maybe ACE inhibitors (usually used for high blood pressure and other heart problems) would help.* After a quick google search for ACE 2 inhibitors I found a science daily article (2nd result for me)**:

    “ACE inhibitors and angiotensin receptor blockers may increase the risk of severe COVID-19, paper suggests”

    *I’m not a doctor, for the love of God, don’t go out and try to score some ACE inhibitors because of what some random dude on the internet said. Don’t be a fucking moron.

    **I couldn’t post a link because for some reason every time I attempt to post a comment with any kind of link the fucking squirrels eat it. Fuck reason and their stupid buggy site in the ass with a rusty chainsaw. I’m sick of this fucking bullshit.

  31. The data about nicotine making you less likely to catch this stuff is very interesting. It is of course known that smoking greatly increases your chances of getting lung cancer and generally does nasty things to your lungs over time. It is also true, however, that smoking makes it easier to stay thin. One of the reasons why people used to be thinner is because nearly everyone smoked. Now we find out that nicotine may make it harder for you to contract the Wuhan virus.

    Just to speculate, I wonder if maybe there are not other health benefits to smoking that haven’t yet been found. The human body is so complex, there are almost certainly all kinds of effects of smoking both good and bad that we don’t understand. Wouldn’t by a kick in the head if we someday figured out that overall smoking benefited public health more than it harmed it?

    1. Or just the overall benefit of Nicotine makes taking it in a way that doesn’t destroy your lungs, like we do caffeine, worthwhile.

      What happened to Nicotine water, anyway?

      1. Fuck it; I’m putting Nicotine patches on my Amazon subscribe and save.

      2. What happened to Nicotine water, anyway?

        It’s quite simple really, Nicotine gives some people just a tiny bit of pleasure by helping them relax, often after a stressful day at work. The modern day puritans can’t have that. They’re absolutely terrified of the thought that someone, somewhere might be having any kind of fun in a way that they disapprove of. Therefore, no Nicotine water for you.

    2. Wouldn’t by a kick in the head if we someday figured out that overall smoking benefited public health more than it harmed it?

      After learning that saturated animal fats don’t kill people, it’s starting to feel like repeated kicks to the head.

      1. The story of saturated animal fats needs to be studied in every high school in America. The claim based on complete bullshit. But it was backed by big money industries that would benefit from people changing to substitutes and changing their diets away from animal fat. There was one guy who called bullshit on it. And his peers ruined his academic career for the favor. They called him a “tool of big meat”. Come to find out he was right and the government everyone to eat more carbs and less fat made a ton of people fat and caused all kinds of harm. That experience makes me not trust anything they say.

        1. Documentary on Amazon Prime called “Fat”: A Documentary”. It is awesome!

        2. Sodium is another one. Recent science strongly suggests that if you have healthy kidney(s) (you only need 1/3 of one functioning kidney to be healthy, but most people have two completely functioning because of redundancy) that sodium is not dangerous because your body eliminated excess sodium (which we’ve known for ages). In fact some studies have suggested that decreased sodium diets for people with heart disease and hypertension may actually be detrimental.
          We also see the same with dietary cholesterol. You body manufacturers it’s own cholesterol and absorbs only minute amounts from food unless their is a shortage. People with high cholesterol however, tend to have a genetic predisposition to not utilize endogenous cholesterol effectively. Dietary restriction seem to have absolutely no impact on serum cholesterol (and this has been known for decades yet the AMA and others still push for low cholesterol diets). We are finding that Vit D and other supplements reduce serum cholesterol. Not surprising, as Vitamin D is formed from cholesterol, as are sex hormones.
          On a related note it is widely debated if vitamin D is actually a vitamin or a hormone. It certainly acts more as a hormone.

          1. Vitamin D also has been suggested to decrease inflammation, decrease depression and a variety of other benefits. I have arthritis in my back (gee, you almost never meet an older soldier who doesn’t have back or knee pain it both). My pain specialist has me taking Vitamin D. I can really tell the difference when I don’t take it. Maybe it is all psychosomatic, but there is nothing wrong with the placebo effect. We use it all the time in medicine. Talking up how well a pain med works seems to increase it efficacy.

    3. Nicotine is an anti-inflammatory. It also mitigates thyroid disease like Hashimodo. A common complaint on a thyroid community board is a worsening of Hashimodo symptoms when quitting smoking.

  32. What’s next, testing to see if baguettes and brie cure COVID-19?

    The most effective treatment involved a combination of chain smoking and four day weekends.


    A 16-year-old was allegedly shot and killed by his stepfather after refusing to stay home and comply with recent shelter-in-place directives, authorities say

    1. Is everyone involved over the age of 65 okay?

      1. Probably kept JFree from catching a cold, so it’s all good.

    2. I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that family relationship had other, bigger problems than, “My kid doesn’t want to cower at home with the rest of us.”

      Wonder if Georgia gets to count him as a Covid-related death? Can’t make a Medicare claim on him, so probably not.

      1. >>Wonder if Georgia gets to count him as a Covid-related death?

        first thing I thought was “Birx would count this”

      2. I’m going to go out on a limb

        That limb is already too crowded. Get back inside with everybody else or I’ll shoot.

  34. That Politico analysis is just garbage.

    Yes, older voters do tend to vote Republican and yes, COVID-19 does impact the elderly more than the young. On the other hand, the fraction of elderly in the most affected age bracket is already very small and the actual death rate is even within that bracket is smallish. When you consider comorbidities and life expectency, most of those folks were going to pass away regardless.

    Balancing that small effect (and explicity ignored by the academics) is that COVID-19 is hitting urban centers the hardest. Urban centers that tend heavily to Democratic voters. The truth is that despite making a few state-specific conclusions, they did no state-level analysis, much less any analysis that considers urban vs rural demographic trends. A garbage analysis all around.

    1. That Politico analysis is just garbage.

      I haven’t read it but I suspect the goal was not to do serious analysis but instead to indulge their fantasies of all the Trump/ Republican voters dying off.

      1. Reason should have included the link. But I should have, too.

        The only positive thing I can say about that study is ‘at least they didn’t paywall it.’

  35. Meanwhile, at the White House: President Donald Trump suggested in a televised Thursday night address that since disinfectants (like bleach and Lysol) work at killing the new coronavirus on surfaces outside the body, perhaps an “injection” could work as a cure.

    I’m really hoping he’s just trolling to see how many people are stupid enough to a) actually try it just because he said so and b) actually think he’s seriously suggesting that people drink bleach or Lysol.

    1. See the Britbart link above. He didn’t say that. There is no reasonable way to interpret what he said as saying that. The media is just lying here.

      1. Figures. I did just watch the video in the embedded tweet and he made a minor, off the cuff reference to “…disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute and is there some way we can do something like that by injection…” but in no way did he actually say that people should go and drink bleach or some shit. Mostly he started off talking about UV light and that they were looking into using it inside the body “through the skin” or something, which someone off camera confirmed they were looking into After that it was pretty obvious just stream of consciousness stuff.

        I kind of figured they were either exaggerating, lying, or taking something out of context (like maybe he was clearly just joking but taken out of context could be spun to make it sound like he was seriously suggesting that people go shoot up Lysol or bleach or some bullshit). They do that shit all the time.

        1. I still don’t understand why the media is incapable of making the legitimate criticisms of Trump that are available and instead ignore those and print outrageous lies like this in their place. Trump remains one of the luckiest men in his enemies in history.

          1. I still don’t understand why the media is incapable of making the legitimate criticisms of Trump that are available and instead ignore those and print outrageous lies

            I suspect that most of the areas of legitimate criticism would require the “journalists” as well their readers/ viewers to actually have to think a little bit. The “journalists” don’t want to because that sounds like actual work and most of the media’s brain dead consumers don’t want to have to actually think about shit either, they just want to read or watch something that confirms their preexisting biases. So this way, it’s win-win. The consumers get what they want and the “journalists” don’t even have to do any actual work to give it to them.

    2. If you look at the quote the media wants you to look at, out of context, it does seem like he might be talking about bleach because of the association people have with the term “disinfectant”. But the context was a discussion about UV light.

      The media are a bunch of hacks.

  36. The only thing the Redskins didn’t need was an upgrade on the defensive line–and I mean that literally.

    Before we can expect to be an 8-8 team (8-9 team now?), we need two cornerbacks, two more people on the offensive line, a starting wide receiver, and a starting tight end.

    People are predicting that the Redskins will finish last in the league next year. With the addition of Burrow, I certainly think Cincinnati is a better team than the Redskins now.

    Before the salary cap, it used to be that even highly hyped rookie QBs would sit on the bench and develop for years before they were allowed to start. With the salary cap, they have to start justifying their cap space with play on the field much sooner than that. I think coaches have a short leash like that, too. Everybody keeps hyping Rivera as a players coach with full support from The Danny, but I wouldn’t put the over/under on losses this year anywhere south of 14. Watch Rivera pile up 14+ losses this year, and we’ll see how much of a players’ coach he is with the full support of the owner. If you don’t lose that kind of support by piling up 14 or more losses, then how do you?

    And with two gaping holes on the OL, and only one receiver to throw to, how much should we expect Haskins to develop this year? We haven’t heard what Miami offered, but it probably wasn’t much considering that they knew they could get Tua without trading for him anyway. Word has it that the Raiders offered their two 1st round draft picks plus two of their 3rd round picks–but Rivera didn’t want the Raiders’ picks because they were relatively late in the 1st round.

    So we upgraded the one thing we didn’t need?!

    . . . and we didn’t get anything from the Browns for Trent Williams–who is a non-entity on our offensive line–despite the rumors that they would trade their first round pic–not once the Browns realized that a tier one young tackle dropped to them in the first round instead of a 35 year old. But, hey, at least we have an upgrade on our defensive line!

    Being as bad as the Redskins are with as many holes as we have, we’re probably more likely than any other team to get the first overall pick in the 2021 draft, but if we’re that awful in 2020–because of Rivera’s picks (or lack thereof)–why would he still be around to make the first pick? The stink of watching Haskins flail around in the backfield while average defenses run through the holes in the OL like we don’t even have a line . . . why would you trust the development of next years’ #1 pick to Rivera after that?

    This season is gonna be like watching a Three Stooges movie, where you know it all ends with Rivera taking a pie to the face, you just watch so you can see how he gets there.

    1. Reaching for need is what stupid organizations do. When you have a top five or even top ten pick, you take the best player available. And most importantly, you don’t take chances and screw up the pick. In Chase Young the Redskins got the highest floor player in the draft and also a player who has as high of a ceiling as anyone in the draft. That is a rare combination. Unless Young gets hurt or starts smoking crack, he is virtually certain to be one of the top pass rushers in the league from the day he steps on the field. There is very little chance he won’t produce worthy of his pick and thus very little chance the Redskins have screwed up a top five pick by taking him. And not only that, he is potentially the most complete and best past rusher to come out of college this century. His ceiling is multiple pro bowls hall of fame career.

      There was no other player on the board who offered that high of a floor much less that high of a floor with so much potential. In any draft that didn’t have a can’t miss quarterback prospect in it like this one had in the kid from LSU, Young is the number one pick. Taking any other player (other than maybe one of the QBs if you just don’t like Haskins and are totally sold on one of them) would have been pure stupidity and the kind of thing the Redskins normally do. For once, they got something right.

      1. Reaching for need is what stupid organizations do.


        When you have a top five or even top ten pick, you take the best player available.

        Or if the BPA is truly at a position that you’re already solid at you can always trade down to a spot where you believe the BPA will more likely be at a position you need and usually snag an extra later round draft pick or pick up a depth piece if you down trade for a veteran and a later pick. That said, you can never have too many pass rushers especially as pass happy as the NFL is now.

        Also, IIRC, the Redskins were a 3-4 defense but I believe Rivera prefers a 4-3 doesn’t he? I’m no football guru but in a 3-4 the edge rushers are usually your OLBs which are stand up rushers and they don’t always convert easily to 4-3 DEs who typically rush from a 3 pt stance. Maybe Rivera felt he needed more of a true 4-3 DE? Assuming Chase young fits that description (I didn’t really follow the draft stuff this year or college football in general).

        1. Teams are not totally 3-4 or 4-3 the way they used to be. They generally play a little of both depending on the situation. Young can play DE in either alignment or the strong side OLB in 3-4. That guy generally rushes the passer and is not expected to cover in space much, since he is on the strong side and there is a strong safety available to come up and cover the flat.

          They will get Young on the field. They have some good pass rushers but they don’t have an elite player on defense at any position. Young should change that.

          The other thing is that because of the salary cap, teams can no longer be good at everything. So, to be good, you need to be very good at something. And rushing the passer is something it pays to be very good at. Look at the 49ers. They traded for Dee Ford and drafted Bosa last year even though they already had a good pass rush and defensive front. Doing that gave them a great pass rush and defensive front and a much better team.

          1. Could argue CB’s are becoming more important than ever. I can’t remember a time where more are being taken in like the top 5 than recently. We have a terrible secondary.

            1. As a group, CBs are more important than ever. But individually, they are less important. Here is what I mean. Twenty five years ago, even good teams had at most two really good receivers. So if you had an elite corner back, that guy could potentially shut down half the field and as much as a third or more of the opposing team’s passing game by shutting down their top receiver. Today, teams have three or in some cases four good receivers and throw the ball all over the field using four and five receiver sets. That means shutting down a team’s top individual receiver doesn’t mean nearly as much as it did. Now, you need more corners than you ever did but the impact of having a single elite corner is a lot less than it once was.

              In contrast, elite pass rushers are as or even more valuable than they ever have been. There is still only one quarterback. And the rules are written such that pressuring the quarterback is really the only sure path available to the defense.

              1. And as a result safeties are becoming increasingly important. Defenses now are geared not at shutting down opposing offenses but limiting their ability to big gains.

      2. we really need a CB and TE badly(also tackle). CB from Ohio State is also going to be a stud. I don’t understand this obsession from the talking heads about are terrible WR corps. It’s not that good sure but it’s not nearly as dire as TE or CB.

        1. I don’t understand why we let Dunbar go for a fifth round pick.

          It should be noted that Jeff Okudah, the CB from Ohio State, would have been available at Miami’s #5 pick–if we’d traded with them. Detroit wouldn’t have taken Okudah at #3 if we hadn’t taken Chase Young. They would have taken Chase Young instead and we would have had Okudah +2 more first round picks.

          We will probably either get a tight end in the third round or we’ll get Tampa Bay’s old tight end (now they’ve been Gronked). Haskins is being left to twist in the wind. Teams will double-team McLaurin next year–now that they’ve got tape on him–and there’s no one on the team to draw coverage away from him. You might hope that we could attract a free agent WR, but Amari Cooper turned down more money to play in Washington–presumably because we have no offensive line, a struggling rookie QB, and no one else on the team to draw coverage.

          Our offensive line leaks like a sieve against the pass rush, and you can’t run behind it either. Haskins has virtually no chance to develop or win under these circumstances. Aaron Rodgers is upset that the Packers didn’t pick up a WR in the first round–how much of a chance does Haskins have on a team with fewer legitimate targets than Rodgers?

          If we’d picked up a starting CB in the draft, a starting offensive lineman, and a good prospect at WR, we’d be on our way to becoming a .500 team. By upgrading our defensive line, we’ve ensured that we’re the worst team in the league. They’re sold this season short. I’d blame it on the past misdeeds of Allen, tagging Kirk Cousins repeatedly, when they could have locked him up for peanuts, and then letting him go–and then with the Trent Williams situation. That was Allen’s doing.

          Letting the second best CB in the league go, when you have him under contract for peanuts, for a fifth round pick and then drafting the only thing you didn’t need when there were at least two first rounders plus second third rounders on the table if you traded down? That’s all Rivera. Haskins isn’t Rivera’s guy, and he’s selling him short. If he isn’t selling this season and Haskins short this year, you cold hardly tell. Our offensive line and receivers situation is a joke. At least last season we had Jordan Reed and Vernon Davis. Now we can’t run and there’s only one guy to throw to.

          1. Stop living in a fantasy world, ken.
            The Dolphins weren’t trading picks for tua

      3. “Reaching for need is what stupid organizations do.”

        See: Falcons, Atlanta

        Fn terrible

  37. OT, did you guys see California’s Rhode v. Bercerra ruling?

    1. One of the craziest things is the proof of citizenship standard to buy ammunition.

      Putting all the other stuff aside for a sec . . .

      Is there anything more hypocritical than a sanctuary state like California requiring people to prove they’re American citizens before they can buy ammunition?

      I mean, holy shit!

      1. Lol

  38. Nolte: Climate Denier Bill Gates Quietly Buys $43M Oceanfront Home in Midst of Pandemic

    No one — not even if you’re worth billions — pisses away $43 million. Which proves that just like CNN and Barack Obama, Bill Gates is a Climate Change activist who knows it’s all a hoax (and trust me, it is) because no one who truly believes the oceans will flood the coasts would invest 43 million goddamned dollars on a doomed house that sits right on the ocean.

    “The six-bedroom home spans about 5,800 square feet, according to the listing, the Journal reported. It has a 10-person Jacuzzi overlooking a fire pit, a long oceanfront deck, limestone flooring and a swimming pool,” reports the New York Post, but the real news is that these people don’t even care anymore.

    1. Bill and Melinda Gates buy $43M oceanfront home near San Diego

      Gates isn’t the only tech mogul grabbing up property amid the economic fallout from COVID-19.

      Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos recently paid $16 million for an apartment in 212 Fifth Avenue as he builds a massive mega-mansion in New York City’s Flatiron District.

    2. When the H’wood ‘greenies’ start shorting their Malibu beach-fronts, I’ll start taking them seriously.

  39. All right. Just went through the comments and flagged every single one from morty. Hopefully he will be the first to get censored.
    It would be a nice Chang of pace for the people clamoring for more authoritarianism to be subject to the first wave of enforcement

    1. Fine with me. If I did something in a comment that merits taking down my comment, so be it. (I haven’t.)

      1. Does being a hypocrite count?

    2. Awesome.

  40. T must have ties to USSTC.

  41. also what’s our tally killing viruses on the whole?

    1. The history of Edward Jenner and smallpox is a good read.

      It began when an 18th century British physician noticed that milkmaids had unusually clear complexions. Cows were known to have a similar disease, cowpox, and it goes on from there.

      1. in. gracias.

  42. “A federal court extended relief for Ohio patients today by continuing to block the Ohio Department of Health from using its COVID-19 order to ban abortion access”

    Another big win for Birth-canal Fairy believers.

    1. >>>relief for Ohio patients

      did anyone ask the babies?

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  44. All viruses that infect the lungs cause heart problems – not unique to COVID-19. Influenza included.

  45. Republican infiltrators trying to ban birth control are one of the self-correcting features of evolution. EVERY major depression follows God’s Own Prohibitionists forcing something FATF down the throat of the banking system. Now they’re in for a taste of how shocked and betrayed Herbert Hoover felt… and Alf Landon and Wendell Willkie and Tom Dewey and Dewey again. China meddling’ll be a change from the Rooshians. The GOP’s only hope is the ducking stool to test christianofascists as possible witches. by holding each one under for 20 minutes or so

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