Trump Is Not Responsible for the Death of a Man Who Swallowed Fish Tank Cleaner

The media can reasonably blame Trump for a lot of things. This is not one of them.

An Arizona man died after swallowing a chemical used in fish tank cleaners, and many in the media know just who to blame: President Donald Trump.

The man and his wife both ingested chloroquine phosphate, reportedly believing it to be a miracle cure for coronavirus. The wife has survived and is blaming her husband's death on President Trump, who cited preliminary and unconfirmed research that the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine could be used to treat COVID-19. This apparently convinced the pair that they should immediately obtain chloroquine phosphate—a different form of the chemical—and consume it.

"We saw Trump on TV—every channel—and all of his buddies said that this was safe," the woman told NBC. "Trump kept saying it was basically pretty much a cure."

Many in the media are also blaming Trump for this death, either implicitly or explicitly. "Arizona Man Dies After Taking Chemical in Coronavirus Treatment Touted by President Trump," proclaimed Time magazine. CBS initially reported the same. Prominent #NeverTrump pundits George Conway and Rick Wilson suggested Trump was morally complicit. Business Insider put the unnamed woman's condemnation of Trump in its headline.

Some headlines were altered—often without acknowledgment—after the full picture emerged. Axios, at least, explained its decision to revisit its initial impression: "This story has been updated to reflect the fact that the form of chloroquine the couple ingested was used in aquariums—and it was not a medication."

The president was certainly wrong to create any expectation, at this early juncture, about hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. But contrary to what the woman suggested to reporters, Trump did not endorse all forms of chloroquine as safe. What she consumed wasn't even medicine—it was chloroquine phosphate, a form of the chemical used in fish tank cleaner. As Reason's Elizabeth Nolan Brown wrote this morning, "It hardly seems Trump's fault that this couple took his statements to mean that drinking any old thing with chloroquine in it could help them."

Journalists have correctly accused Trump of spreading misinformation about hydroxychloroquine, but in these frightening and confusing times, some of them need to be more careful before they commit the exact same sort of mistake.

Comments

[Illocust]

Not as far as I would go in a condemnation, but I'll give you a internet cookie for acknowledging people drinking aquarium cleaner don't have anyone but themselves to blame.

Could also add that letting people know a prescription drug looks promising isn't the slightest bit dangerous and causes 0% real world harm, but baby steps.

[Brandybuck]

Drinking aquarium cleaner is kindergarten compared to the people literally drinking bleach. It's an old woo, that has led to a lot of deaths, which has made a comeback in the age of COVID-PANIC. Yes, bleach kills Corona virus. It also kills humans for the same reason. It's a poison.

[Chute_Me]

Hey, you are guaranteed not to get infected with Coronavirus — nor ANY other virus, ever — if you drink a bottle of bleach.

[Mother's lament]

Robby's going to get a lot of shit for stating the obvious.
Boehm and Welch are probably preparing for a shunning, no video conference drinky-poos for Robby tonight. So he deserves kudos for writing this.

Kinda sad about the "To Be Sure" graf though; "The president was certainly wrong to create any expectation, at this early juncture, about hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. "
Conte, Merkel and Trudeau all praised the cocktail before Trump did, which seems to be memory hold amidst the opportunistic outrage. That's because it's often worked well with other viral infections and there's solid evidence that it's working here.
Trump is getting fed this info from some of the best in medicine, it's not coming from the comments on Vox or a twitter thread.

[buybuydandavis]

“The president was certainly wrong to create any expectation, at this early juncture, about hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. “

What a putz.

#LibertariansForWaitingForFDASaySoToWipeTheirAsses

[ThomasD]

Two weeks of broad spectrum antibiotics will do wonders preventing respiratory infections from progressing to more serious outcomes.

Yes, you only take the azithromycin for five days, but that dosing creates sustained therapeutic levels of drug in the body for about 13 days. The thing is, other antibiotics may work just as well when taken properly but repeated studies have shown that in the case of a twice daily drug many people do not complete a full 14 day course of treatment. Make it a three times a day drug and successful completion drops to almost zero.

I don't have a clue what the hydroxychloroquine is doing. But since it is used as an immunomodulator for autoimmune conditions (RA, lupus) it might be reducing the cytokine storm that was what made H1N1 so deadly.

[Metazoan]

There's some hypothesis that it alters endosomal pH in a way that impairs the ability of the virus to release into the cell, apparently.

[kcuch]

I'm nowhere close to being a doctor but I thought antibiotics do NOT kill viruses even though your information passes otherwise.

[KevinP]

Azithromycin has been documented to have anti-viral properties.

[AER1972]

Yes I don't recall Trump saying anything other than this drug shows promise and it does. Idiots drinking aquarium cleaner because it contains something similar to a drug that might help helps prove Darwin's theory. This treatment is out there and being tested let's give Orange man a break ... I shudder to think how HRC would have handled this (or even the dimwitted Joe Biden)

[Dr. Ed]

... letting people know a prescription drug looks promising isn’t the slightest bit dangerous and causes 0% real world harm...

It's a Federal offense to even possess Hydroxychloroquine without a prescription or pharmacy license. One reason for this is that the prescribing dose is scary close to the lethal dose, there isn't a very large margin of error.

[wagnert in atlanta]

Actually, it's not -- for hydroxychloroquine. From Wikipedia, Hydroxychloroquine:

Hydroxychloroquine overdoses are rarely reported, with seven previous cases found in the English medical literature. In one such case, a 16-year-old girl who had ingested a handful of hydroxychloroquine 200mg...

recovered, though it was touch-and-go.

Now for chloroquine, the toxic dose appears to be just a gram for small children, with (I suppose) commensurate increases for adults. Presumably these idiots took much more than a gram. Incidentally, the aquarium cleaner was chloroquine phosphate. So is the medical form.

[SIV]

Incidentally, the aquarium cleaner was chloroquine phosphate. So is the medical form.

Congratulations. No one gets this right, but you did.

[Dr. Ed]

USP? Yea, that too makes a difference...

[TJJ2000]

"So is the medical form"? - According to my Wikipedia they're entirely two different compounds. (missing oxygen).

Hydroxychloroquine = C18H26ClN3O
Chloroquine (i.e. Chloroquine phosphate) = C18H26ClN3

"Yeah, but how big is an atom, right?" lol..... Can't remember where I heard that but it always makes me laugh.

Try using H2O without the oxygen to fight a fire.

[ThomasD]

Hydroxychloroquine is sold under the brand name Plaquenil, and is more commonly used for autoimmune conditions (the 'plaque' being an oblique reference to the skin plaques seen in psoriatic arthritis.)

Chloroquine is sold under the brand name Primaquine and its use is pretty much limited to treating malaria.

Primaquine is indeed chloroquine phosphate, given in milligram doses. My guess is these people too gram sized doses and destroyed their bone marrow.

[neurodoc]

The man died much too quickly and in a way that would not implicate injury to the bone marrow. Even massive, fatal radiation does not wipe out the marrow and caused death in short order.

[JoeB]

Lots of cardiac rhythm issues with chloroquine, but that doesn't stop it's worldwide use for malaria prophylaxis and treatment by literally millions without lethal effect. Too much aspirin or even 5g of tylenol will kill you just as dead.

[ThomasD]

Yeah, chloroquine use for malaria is not too common in the first world - there are better drugs. But chloroquine is easy to make, so cheap and abundant, making it's use common everywhere else.

Things that can kill parasites - which are usually substantially bigger and tougher than bacteria - tend to be darn toxic and should never be taken lightly.

[Cinobuay]

So is the medical form”? – According to my Wikipedia they’re entirely two different compounds. (missing oxygen).
NAHCON Medical Team Recruitment

[Cinobuay]

So is the medical form”? – According to my Wikipedia they’re entirely two different compounds. (missing oxygen).
NAHCON Medical Team Recruitment

[JoeB]

You are totally wrong about hydroxychloroquine safety profile. Rheumatologists will dose this between 200-400 mg/day routinely, then will check liver enzymes for elevation. Retinal toxicity may occur in some patients after several years (that's years with a y). Quack.

[AER1972]

Who is suggesting people take this without a Doctors supervision? How would you even get a hold of it? Over the internet ? Please!

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

"Could also add that letting people know a prescription drug looks promising isn’t the slightest bit dangerous"

If, as has been reported, Pres. Trump advised his slack-jawed audience to obtain prescriptions for chloroquine, your comment seems silly.

Carry on, clinger.

[soldiermedic76]

Since that isn't what happened, who is the slack jawed audience here? Hint, it is the person making unsupported assertions.

[Dariush]

“If, as has been reported, Pres. Trump...”

Might as well read tea leaves or ask the Ouija board when it comes to Trump. The Press doesn’t report, Rev. Kuckland, they indoctrinate knuckle dragging mouthbreathers like yourself, retard.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Before I investigate this point, is either of you two bigoted dullards willing to assert that Trump did not encourage his slack-jawed followers to obtain prescriptions for the relevant item(s)?

[soldiermedic76]

He never did!!!! Their I asserted it. Because it never happened.

[Sevo]

"Before I investigate this point,.."

Asshole, why would you "investigate" anything before posting one of your imbecilic comments?

[wagnert in atlanta]

I am willing to assert that he never said, "Drink fish-tank cleaner, it'll clear that old coronavirus right up." He never even said, "Go get a prescription for fish-tank cleaner, it'll clear that old coronavirus right up." I believe he did say, "Get a prescription for hydroxychloroquine, which is not at all the same thing -- and, believe it or not, doctors don't write prescriptions automatically.
But don't let that spoil your day.

[Dr. Ed]

I believe he said that MDs may have a drug THEY can use....

[KevinP]

He didn't even say that. He said the drugs were promising.

[Shitlord of the Woodchippers]

He didn’t. He said the drug had promise in treating Wuhan Virus, and this is worth investigating. I know this because I watched the fucking press conference.

[AER1972]

Apparently the lazy boy Robby was more worried about his hair cut than writing a coherent article. Typical of the undisciplined Reason staff. Robby forgets he doesn't write for Highlights any longer.

[Agammamon]

Hey Rev, how does it feel to be a member of the political part of old white men?

[buybuydandavis]

If you weren't a mathematically illiterate boob, you'd know that Trump *should* have been recommending that we generally take hydroxychloroquine prophylactically.

If you went to a malaria zone, your Doctor would hand you a tub of it and say "bon voyage". But the scientific cargo cultists at the FDA, and you, don't know shit about decision theory.

[Kazinski]

Lets also stipulate that anyone that advocates that doctors should be able to presrcibe vicodin or oxycontin are also responsible for all the heroin an fentynal overdoses.

[loveconstitution1789]

#TidePods

There are stupid people all over.

I mean Lefties really believe that the Nazis were not Socialists.

[buybuydandavis]

Nationalsozialistische

Funny thing is, the Left is now much more like the Nazis than the Commies, complete with race hatred for Jews.

Their economics are much more fascist than communist. Same for the CCP. Keep a market, but with massive and arbitrary government interference.

[C. S. P. Schofield]

A Progressive is a Socialist is a Communist is a Fascist is a Nazi. All are different brandings of "The State should have almost total authority, and we want to be running the State".

Given the chance to actually run things, the results of all brands are depressingly similar; economic stagnation, followed by the naming of scapegoats, and mass graves.

[buybuydandavis]

"But Orange Man Bad!"

[Dakesq]

There is strong evidence that this drug could help treat the virus. The drug is by prescription only, has been available since 1944, and the doses and side-effects are well known. The question is whether clinical studies will demonstrate that it is effective against the corona virus as anecdotal studies have seemed to show. The couple who took the aquarium cleaner are candidates for the Darwin awards. Trying to blame Trump for this is absurd.

[AER1972]

yes I agree Darwin had a theory that fit these people. I would argue that Andy Coumo's call for 35K ventilators and $15Bil is more nonsense. From what I have read most people that have to go on ventilators are pretty far gone and don't really recover. I read today there is a model by a Gates sponsored institute that predicts 80K dead in the USA by July .. this is dangerously stupid information

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[eyeroller]

It would help if we stopped thinking of the president as a god-king who answers all questions and solves all problems.

[Cynical Asshole]

But if we did that then people might have to hold themselves accountable for their fuck ups instead of just blaming the all powerful God-King. That's just crazy talk.

[I'm Not Sure]

To be fair to Trump, he *did* follow the god-king and some people are still confused about the change.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

It like night and day, complete with glowing orange. How could they miss?

[Naaman Brown]

It would help if we stopped thinking of any president as a god-king who answers all questions and solves all problems.

But Trump is different because.......

[buybuydandavis]

That's God Emperor to you, shmucko.

Hail GEOTUS!

[StackOfCoins]

Hail GEOTUS!

.... oranGE man Of The United States?

[Kazinski]

Well even as a Trump voter i have to concede thats what his self image is. But he is grounded enough in reality that he never saw things that way until he got elected.

[Cynical Asshole]

She should look on the bright side: her husband is now a shoe in for the 2020 Darwin Award, and she's locked up an honorable mention for almost offing herself as well.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

Nope, 60 years old has already passed on his genes, I expect.

[MatthewSlyfield]

Nope, sorry, they don't qualify for the 2020 Darwin Awards.

To qualify for a Darwin Award, you have to take yourself out of the gene pool before you manage to reproduce.

This couple was in their 60s. Either they had kids and are disqualified that way, or they aged out of the gene pool before they tried to commit suicide by idiocy.

[soldiermedic76]

To be fair the wife is likely unable to reproduce anymore, however, males remain fertile for life after puberty. There are however, growing evidence that advanced age males who reproduce do tend to have children who have a greater propensity towards developmental disorders such as Autism Spectrum Disorder.

[Rossami]

To be even more fair, 'fertile' is not exactly equal to 'able to reproduce'. I was no great looker when I was young but even so I had a lot higher odds of getting lucky with my 20-year-old body than with the one I'm carrying now. The number of 60 year olds who are still a viable part of the gene pool is probably negligible. So unless this guy looked like Brad Pitt, I'm going to side with Matthew.

[soldiermedic76]

Or is rich.

[markm23]

I might think so, but then I remember the aunt who is younger than my oldest child. Several years after my grandmother left my fat balding grandfather, he married his secretary and they had a child. He was over 60 at the time. And if she was attracted to his money, her standards were _much_ lower than Trump's wives and girlfriends; he sold insurance.

[c5c5]

Wealth is in the eye of the beholder. When I was younger I would have considered an insurance salesman wealthy.

Nothing appeals more to women who have hit the wall than men that they percieve will support them monetarily.

Looks are nice for us women, but our survival genes tell us to go where the money is.

[Dr. Ed]

Every time there is a snowstorm-caused winter blackout in Maine, some idiot starts up a portable generator in his living room -- and manages to kill the entire family with Carbon Monoxide poisoning.

New generators have at least THREE different warnings not to do this, one of which you have to physically destroy in order to fill the gas tank -- and they STILL do it.

And these are usually people with college degrees doing this. Wow....

[JWatts]

"And these are usually people with college degrees doing this. Wow…."

Warnings are for stupid hicks, not Educated and Smart people.

[Fk_Censorship]

In all fairness, the college curriculum has been watered down so much in the United States, that any Darwin Award nominee can easily get a Master's Degree in almost any subject at almost any university.

[Dr. Ed]

True, but "danger of death, this device produces a deadly gas" ought to be understandable....

[Azathoth!!]

True, but “danger of death, this device produces a deadly gas” ought to be understandable….

And THAT'S how we can tell you ain't no doctor.

Takes a heap 'o credentialing to get stupid like college stupid.

[Bodica Slayer of Woodchip]

Hey, Dr. Ed:

When I was release from the hospital after catching a c-diff infection (from that hospital's ER), I was given the instructions by the CDC to "clean all of the hard surfaces in my home with bleach" to prevent reinfection (I was still dropped c-diff spores).

So that's what I did! Because c-diff is nasty, nasty, nasty.

I used Tilex with beach in the kitchen and in the bathroom. And then I followed up with Windex on the shower doors.

And I almost died from the fumes.

[Dr. Ed]

Sounds to me like some acid got involved somehow...

[Ecoli]

Who do we blame for kids eating tide pods? My money is on Trump.

[Naaman Brown]

Biden? Sanders? Warren?

Anyone but the idiot eating Ride pods?

I'd blame Hitler, but someome else blamed him.

[TwelveInchPianist]

Trump opponents should remember that any time we are arguing over whether or not Trump is to blame because somebody ate fish-tank cleaner, Trump is winning.

What would be nice would be more coverage about the benefits and risks of chloroquine, and what the plan is for making it available to people who need it.

Much of the problem comes from the fact that the FDA comments sound like hostage statements: "No drug as been approved at this time." Let's get some accurate information.

[Nardz]

Chloroquine?
Nah!
Ron Bailey has the answer - only more testing will cure the virus

[Muzzled Woodchipper]

I agree with Ron that more testing is vital, but for a very different reason, and probably a different test.

We need a test for antibodies to see both who has it, and who’s had it and never knew it.

IF we have a chance at curtailing the liberty busting measures with the next public health “crisis”, we’re gonna need proof that this one was a fucking dud that pushed dumbass pols in to killing the world economy. The official numbers are all skewed towards the very very ill. They’re not even testing those with symptoms if they’re not bad enough right now, which is enabling all kinds of stat fuckery.

As it stands, the numbers will be horribly flawed because we’re only confirming the most seriously ill. We need better data, and testing is the only way to get it.

[MikeT1986]

Where I live in the US it's basically 'no fever no test'.

[CreamPuff]

Where I live, If you’re not in need of hospitalization, you’re not getting tested unless you’ve been to China or Italy in the last 14 days or have been in contact with a confirmed diagnosed person.
I’m an immunosuppressed transplant recipient with a fever and a nasty cough.
There aren’t enough tests to test anyone around here but those who meet the cdc guidelines (I’ve tried at my transplant hospital and a local drive through clinic).
And, even with those heavily restricted testing guidelines, the covid19 clinic at my transplant hospital told me only 4% of the people they’re testing are turning up positive.
Not sure what to think about this one but I can tell ya it’s not the virus that scares me.

[Kazinski]

Where i come from when you got a fever the only thing they'll give you is more cowbell.

[buybuydandavis]

Ron is being lame on this one, not seeing the treatment/prevention potential of hydroxychloroquine to really flatten the curve.

[Number 2]

”What would be nice would be more coverage about the benefits and risks of chloroquine, and what the plan is for making it available to people who need it.”

Come now, Mr. 12 inch. That would require reporters to do some, you know, reporting, as in investigation, learning the facts, and relating them in an accurate manner. Much easier simply to send out tweets and call that “journalism.”

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Do you have any comment about Trump's handling of the chloroquine issue, or do bigoted rubes confine their criticisms to mainstream journalists?

[soldiermedic76]

Yes. He was talking about directing testing by the CDC and FDA on a promising treatment that other countries had already began using. He stated it was promising and that he directed the FDA to begin testing it.

[Sevo]

"Do you have any comment about Trump’s handling of the chloroquine issue, or do bigoted rubes confine their criticisms to mainstream journalists?"

Asshole, do you have any comments worthy of a 5-year old?

[buybuydandavis]

He should have gone further, but the Left, including you, would have REEEEEEEED to the heavens and called for impeachment.

As it is, Trump has been consistently better than the incompetent medical #DeepState which has screwed the pooch from Day One.

[Bodica Slayer of Woodchip]

There is no chloroquine issue.

And since when do libertarians want to wait for government to give them permission?

[Ecoli]

Also, I would like to point out that this foolish man in Arizona DID NOT DIE OF C19. Looks like a win for Trump. Again.

[lap83]

he didn't even have the virus, most of the reports I've seen have glossed over that or even omitted that fact

[mad.casual]

Did they even own fish or did they make a concerted effort to avoid the pharmacy counter in favor of the pet section too?

[Agammamon]

Apparently it was leftover from a time when they did.

[Ecoli]

That is even better. New headline: "Man takes Trump's advice, becomes permanently immune to C19".

[mad.casual]

The media can reasonably blame Trump for a lot of things.

No they can't. Not because Trump's not at fault but the media, even Reason magazine (drink), can't do anything reasonably.

[wagnert in atlanta]

Ooooh, snap!

[Leo Kovalensky II]

I blame Darwin for this.

[Let MAGA off at the next stop]

The important question is what color was Trump's suit when he made these claims.

[mad.casual]

The president was certainly wrong to create any expectation, at this early juncture, about hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin.

Because, wearing that suit and generating expectations the way he was, he was just asking for it.

[soldiermedic76]

To be fair... if these prove beneficial and Trump had said nothing (even after authorizing the FDA, nay ordering the FDA, to circumvent regulations to begin testing on humans) he would be being blamed for not sharing the information.

[JWatts]

Can you imagine the fall out if it worked and he had talked about it in private and not public?

[soldiermedic76]

Even worse.

[Rat on a train (non donor)]

Did his suit have gold fringe?

[TwelveInchPianist]

Also, I wouldn't be shocked if this story were substantially inaccurate. It strikes me as terribly um, fishy.

[Don't look at me!]

How would you rate it on a scale of 1 - 10?

[Chipper Morning Wood]

This fish tank story doesn't hold water.

[Fk_Censorship]

For this poor man, "c'est la fin".

[SimpleRules]

I see what you did there

[Jerryskids]

Between Feb. 25 and March 2, the price paid for a single 25-gram bottle of chloroquine phosphate rose from $9.99 to over $500.

Hey, dumbass, who besides Trump has the ability to time-travel back three weeks to raise the false hope of the efficacy of chloroquine? It's obviously all Trump's fault!

[wagnert in atlanta]

There's nothing Trump can't do!

[mad.casual]

It strikes me as terribly um, fishy.

I must say, timing your husband's "OD" on fish tank cleaner with a Presidential tweet is much less conspicuous than fitting him with a pair of concrete shoes.

[lap83]

that thought crossed my mind too, especially since he didn't have the virus

[mad.casual]

Journalists have correctly accused Trump of spreading misinformation about hydroxychloroquine, but in these frightening and confusing times, some of them need to be more careful before they commit the exact same sort of mistake.

Why?

Please Robby, explain any consequences or motivations that should prevent journalists from printing the most degenerate and disinformative of yellow journalism. Bonus points if you can avoid mentioning the 1A.

[Cynical Asshole]

explain any consequences or motivations that should prevent journalists from printing the most degenerate and disinformative of yellow journalism.

Because of genuine concern for the greater good? BWAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!!!1!1!!!!!!!!!

Oh man, that was good one, I haven't laughed that hard in long, long time.

[Nardz]

And just what "misinformation" did Trump spread???

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

He said it did more than it is known to do.

Sort of like TDS victims who either blame or credit Trump for more than he did.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

Or the TDS victims that defend Trump no matter what and don't utter a peep to criticize his two trillion dollar bailout. TDS goes both ways.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

Duh. What did I say? "blame or credit".

[JesseAz]

So both of you know what TDS supposedly is...

Now let's see if you have any introspection on the term.

[mad.casual]

He said it did more than it is known to do.

Got a link? The most I've heard him say is that it has potential, and then defer to researchers, which is pretty much what the 'cited' tweet above says/does.

Even the article that Reason ran the other day saying Trump said it could treat COVID linked to an article that specifically says that it was others' claim, not his.

[Nardz]

Looks like the "misinformation spreading"... misinformation... worked on at least a couple regulars (above)

[JesseAz]

The regular useful idiots live in a self confirming bubble.

[JesseAz]

No he didn't. He stated there were promising results and that it may work, may not work.

You're pretty ignorant about a lot. Filling in for Jeff?

[Bodica Slayer of Woodchip]

When did Trump ever say it did more than it is know to do?

[buybuydandavis]

"Journalists have correctly accused Trump of spreading misinformation about hydroxychloroquine,"

Note that Robby lacks the stones and intellectual integrity to identify any of Trump's statements about hydroxychloroquine as *false*, he just asserts that Trump is "spreading misinformation" out of thin air.

Hack.

[Bodica Slayer of Woodchip]

Indeed. What did Trump say was false about the anti-viral malaria drug, Robby?

[Lord Blastington]

well, Robby did explained that just because someone does something Stupid after listening to someone else doesn't always make the Speaker responsible.

Also on the subject of the Corona Virus, if you look at China, it is an example of what you get with Government Intervening in the Media.

[wearingit]

I mean, of course not. Doesn't mean that the jackass actually being present at these things isn't a detriment.

[soldiermedic76]

And if he wasn't holding press conferences you would be screaming he is hiding and not taking this seriously.

[Sevo]

"...Doesn’t mean that the jackass actually being present at these things isn’t a detriment..."

Sort of like your imbecilic posts, shitstain?

[lap83]

Richard Cooke
@rgcooke
Drinking fish-tank cleaner is not as stupid as it sounds. Uninsured Americans regularly take aquarium antibiotics for health reasons, then leave coded reviews.

So Trump showing optimism about studies showing anti-malarial drug can be used for C19 caused a guy to die from fish tank cleaner....

But a journalist LITERALLY stating that ingesting fish tank cleaner is not that stupid is somehow helping the situation? I guess maybe if people realize the smart thing is to always do the opposite of what journalists suggest.

[lap83]

(that tweet wasn't in Robby's article, it was just relevant)

[Nardz]

Good find

[mad.casual]

I hope to God he is/was tilting at (publicly) insuring people who drink aquarium cleaner and tacitly encourage others to do the same.

[Don't look at me!]

Trump rode in a car. Someone else rode in a car. That person died in a crash. Trump is to blame.

[Longtobefree]

NOW you understand - - - - - -

[Rich]

The Twitter thread is gold, Jerry.

Perhaps Trump should shut down Twitter for 15 days.

[mad.casual]

Lori Andersen, Ph.D.
@drloriandersen
·
14h
Replying to
@VaughnHillyard
and
@agargmd
I bet there are lots of lawyers eager to take her case. Trump is liable for this.

OMG It hurts! My sides...

[Nardz]

So many people need to die

[Chipper Morning Wood]

There you go again, calling for people to die. I hope you treat the chickens on your farm better than you treat other people.

[soldiermedic76]

Leaving aside you poor attempt at humor, most farmers and ranchers I know aren't the most sociable people but do care heavily for their animals.

[Nardz]

You should let the chicken thing go; it doesn't make any sense.
And yea, I'm perfectly comfortable with my humanity

[JesseAz]

He thinks it is humorous for some reason. Like he does all his posts. It is just sad. He is equivelant to a fat lady trying to be funny to get friends.

[Illocust]

I like the person desperately trying to get people to stop saying the couple drank fish tank cleaner, because it points out how ridiculous this whole headline is.

[Jerryskids]

The president was certainly wrong to create any expectation, at this early juncture, about hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin.

Journalists have correctly accused Trump of spreading misinformation about hydroxychloroquine

Is the misinformation Trump was spreading by any chance the expectation that the drugs might provide some hope?

What's interesting to me is that Trump said one thing, the entire media establishment immediately claimed that Trump was a stupid lying moron and nobody should believe a word he said, and the public seemed to believe Trump over the media - and yet there's a dearth of news analysis pieces examining the question of just why it is that the public seems to trust a stupid lying moron more than the media. Maybe the answer is so plainly obvious that it doesn't need answering - the American public is largely retards and moral degenerates and would be much better served by having the wise media elites making all their decisions for them. Certainly it couldn't be that the American public has come to realize that the media are stupider, lyinger, moronerer than Trump.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Where "American public" = disaffected, half-educated, superstitious, bigoted, backwaters-inhabiting slack-jaws.

[creech]

You just described many of the Democrat voters I know.

[wagnert in atlanta]

All, except my wife. Right, dear?

[Sevo]

"Where “American public” = disaffected, half-educated, superstitious, bigoted, backwaters-inhabiting slack-jaws."

Did they cut the power to you double-wide, asshole?

[Case of the Mondays]

Oh shit the Rev is back to cutting and pasting. Got tired of your other sock accounts bitch?

[Moderation4ever]

It is worth noting that much of President Trump appeal is to low information voters. This couple is the ultimate in low information. They took Trump at his word an did not even check out the information. Is Trump to blame, I would say no. I would double check any medication, even when my doctor prescribes it. None the less, it would still better if Trump spoke a little less or better yet not at all.

[soldiermedic76]

This information was widely being presented before Trump said it looked promising. Often by the same media who is now criticizing him. What would the results have been if he had said nothing (even though he forced the FDA to loosen regulations so testing could begin) and it turns out it is the correct treatment? I am betting you would be on here screaming that he hid the information from the American public. Talk about low information voters...

[Illocust]

Actually, that was exactly what they were doing a week ago. Bitching that Trump wan't being transparent enough about what was going on.

[soldiermedic76]

exactly.

[redfish]

Two stories come out.
- "Florida man with coronavirus says drug touted by Trump saved his life." Man has problems with breathing for a week, gets forwarded an article about chloroquine, asks his doctor about the drug, its administered to him, feels fully recovered the next day, and he credits the drug for saving his life.
- "Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine phosphate to treat coronavirus." Man ingests fish tank cleaner that normally says "not for human consumption" on the packaging, at who knows what dosage. His wife, who also ingested the fish tank cleaner blames "Trump & all of his buddies" on "every channel", where none of the TV journalists warned people shouldn't self-medicate with fish tank cleaner, either.

Guess which one most of the media runs with and pins on Trump.

Btw I wonder if anyone has seen the NYPost headline "Fish tank additive could treat coronavirus, studies say"

[JesseAz]

https://reason.com/2020/01/30/trump-supporters-verbal-ability/

Hint, link is more than just verbal.

[NoVaNick]

Sounds like Florida Man has some serious competition now from Arizona Man

[NoVaNick]

It might have been an urban myth but I remember hearing about 25 years ago the case of a lady who used a microwave to dry her dog after giving it a bath, then suing the microwave manufacturer for the undesired result because it did not say not to use it for that purpose

[Jerryskids]

I heard it was a little old lady and her cat and she only sued the microwave manufacturer as a last resort after she was unable to successfully sell the microwave on Craigslist. Anybody who bought the microwave insisted on returning it, complaining that no matter what they cooked in the microwave it wound up tasting like old lady pussy.

[Eddy]

I heard the microwaved-cat story, but not the version with the lawsuit.

Wait, you're trying to one-up the original story, aren't you?

OK, then - the way I heard it, the woman went on to open a [ethnicity omitted] restaurant.

[redfish]

I heard an old lady wanted to dry off her pet elephant, but it didn't fit in the microwave. So she cut it up piece by piece first. Then was upset the microwave killed it. After grieving the loss of her elephant, she entered a deep depression. She saw a commercial about how drugs cured depression, and ingested some fish tank additive thinking any drugs would do, and died. The end.

[Paulpemb]

It's a line in a Weird Al Yankovic song, too:

"I sued Panasonic!
They never I couldn't use their microwave
to dry off my cat!"

From "I'll Sue Ya!"

[Dr. Ed]

I know of a baby that died that way....

[Dr. Ed]

Not an urban legend -- I know the child protective worker.

[beaker55]

OH. MY. GOD. -- I cannot believe Robby Suave chose to put this tripe up for reading! We need social distancing and isolation from trash journalism like this. UNBELIEVABLE!!!

[Rossami]

Interesting. Since Trump presumably found out about the effects of chloroquine from a press release (probably the same one I read a day or more before Trump's first public statement on the topic), are those same journalists blaming each other for "spreading misinformation about hydroxychloroquine"?

[soldiermedic76]

And what disinformation, just for the records, according to the so called journalist? That the FDA was conducting human trials on a promising treatment? Not sure how that is disinformation.

[NoVaNick]

Because Trump

[Jerryskids]

I'm surprised Trump hasn't yet claimed that he's the one who came up with the idea of using those drugs. Give him a week, he'll be claiming he invented them.

[soldiermedic76]

Cocked eyebrow emoji.

[mad.casual]

Donald Trump, Barack Obama, and Chuck Norris walk into a bar... is a joke that no one has ever finished and lived.

[Reshufflex]

Speaking of...an infected covid19 skeleton walks into a bar. Says to the bartender, give me a shot of chloroquine phosphate...

And a mop.

[redfish]

Al Gore, however, has already claimed he invented them. So if Trump wants to claim rights he's going to have to do a lawsuit, Trump v. Gore.

One other thing, though; when the pandemic crisis ends, I bet Obama will say "I told you this was the moment the earth would heal."

[Colossal Douchebag]

Something something aquarium cleaner something something gene pool....

[swillfredo pareto]

My doctor told me I needed more sodium because of my hyperhidrosis. I am out of Brawndo but I have a bottle a sodium hydroxide I am planning on drinking shortly. If I don't make tell my wife I loved her.

[Dr. Ed]

Hydrogen hydroxide (water) versus sodium hydroxide -- both are hydroxides...

[Rufus The Monocled]

"Is the misinformation Trump was spreading by any chance the expectation that the drugs might provide some hope?"

And the media spreads more misinformation about Trump and they get to pretend their actions have no consequences.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Maybe they deserve each other.

[Rufus The Monocled]

As for these retards, we're entering the Darwinism phase of this pandemic.

[Fats of Fury]

The first thing to check , did Momma just take out a life insurance policy for Poppa?

[Public Citizen]

My suspicious mind went down that same road when I read about this.
It could be a case of plain old Stupidcide, but the possibilities of a "Jim Jones Cocktail" being served up needs to be conclusively eliminated.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

"The president was certainly wrong to create any expectation, at this early juncture, about hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. But contrary to what the woman suggested to reporters, Trump did not endorse all forms of chloroquine as safe."

Did Trump encourage his followers to obtain prescriptions for chloroquine?

Do Trump's supporters tend to be poorly educated, gullible people?

You're in no position to be offering mainstream journalists tips.

[soldiermedic76]

No he never encouraged his "followers" to obtain any prescriptions. He stated he directed the FDA to begin human trials on a treatment that other countries had already began using that looked "promising". Do you even know what is being discussed?

[Eddy]

"Do you even know what is being discussed?"

Sure, he knows the discussion is about how you're a better clinger who will die off and get replaced by a better American. And something about shoving progress down your throat.

[Eddy]

It's like that so-called Rorshach test they gave me last year - they said I was some kind of pervert, but they were the ones showing me all the dirty pictures.

[Echospinner]

He did not direct nor order anything.

Doctors have been prescribing azithromycin for decades for upper respiratory infections not proven to be viral or bacterial. Chloroquine derivatives have a narrow therapeutic window and should not be used lightly.

I recently saw this from one state medical board.

A) Unless otherwise approved by the board’s executive director, no prescription for chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine may be dispensed by a pharmacist or sold at retail by a licensed terminal distributor of dangerous drugs unless all the following apply:
(1) The prescription bears a written diagnosis code from the prescriber; and
(2) If written for a COVID-19 diagnosis, the diagnosis has been confirmed by a positive test result, which is documented on the prescription and both of the following apply:
(a) The prescription is limited to no more than a fourteen-day supply; and
(b) No refills may be permitted unless a new prescription is furnished.
(B) Prescriptions for either presumptive positive patients or prophylactic use of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine related to COVID-19 is strictly prohibited unless otherwise approved by the board’s executive director in consultation with the board president, at which time a resolution shall issue.
This rule is now effective and enforceable.

So if anything without an approved trial this road is more shut down because people got the wrong message.

I do not expect the president to be an expert in pharmacology and infectious disease. He just needs to know when to STFU.

[soldiermedic76]

He directed them to begin testing it for off label use... Learn what that is.

[Echospinner]

How many years did you spend learning and practicing the difference?

[soldiermedic76]

Seventeen years as a nurse. Also, I am an agricultural professor now, part of my duties include teaching animal nutrition and health to 4-H and ranchers. This includes teaching about on label and off label use and the regulations pertaining to such. Next question.

[soldiermedic76]

What he did was order the FDA to waive the normal testing protocol so that they could move directly into human trials using medications that have already undergone testing but are not labeled for this particular virus.

[Echospinner]

Oh is that different than off label use?

The president is directing clinical trials now?

[soldiermedic76]

He is directing them to forgo the normal routine to begin human trials earlier. And yes it is the same as off label. Off label means a use that has not been approved and therefore is not on the label.

[soldiermedic76]

And all of your list of citations are because these medications have not yet been approved for use because they haven't been tested for this virus. What Trump's action have allowed is for the FDA to begin testing these medications on humans actually infected with COVID-19. This means that some of the regulations that have stopped or restricted it's usage can now be loosened, and data on its efficacy can be collected. If it proves effective, then the FDA can allow drug manufacturers to put this on label. This makes prescribing it much easier for physicians.

[Echospinner]

The FDA does not approve clinical trials for on the shelf medical drugs. It already has the authority to relax restrictions for non approved drugs, new vaccines or therapies.

There are trials already underway for those.

I have cited here to multiple sources including NEJM, JAMA, Johns Hopkins, Lancet, many others. I can link to the notification I received above if you wish which restricts use of chloroquine and derivatives to clinicians.

The president as I said is not and should not be the medical chief officer of the country. We have those. It is neither reassuring nor productive when he gets in the way and starts talking specifics about which he knows nothing.

[soldiermedic76]

He directed the loosening of restrictions which hindered the trials. He isn't directing the trials. Keep reaching. I would love to see your citations because you don't quite seem to grasp the concept. BTW, the FDA doesn't conduct the trials but does regulate them, which is basically the same thing. If they don't authorize the studies then they can't be conducted.
Also, for any use not already approved by the FDA trials are required to add a new on label use.

[Dr. Ed]

There is always off-label use.
All of the sex change hormones are being used that way...

[soldiermedic76]

It is a tricky thing. Off label use has huge legal implications, malpractice etc. If doctors started using a medication off label on a novel virus that the media is panicking about and hyping, just think of the repercussions?

[Echospinner]

Medicine is a tricky thing as you know.

The president should have never said that in a very difficult subject which he knows nothing about.

Chloroquine and derivatives as you know nurse have a narrow therapeutic window and are not proven in treating nor preventing viral infection at this time.

Posted last week a communication published about the possible use of it in this disease.

Should you have citations to add I would be welcome to read them and discuss. I have tried to do that here.

[Azathoth!!]

Hydroxychloroquine is taken prophylactically for the prevention of malaria.

I will note this again--prophylactically. For those of you with advanced degrees, that means, and here I'm going to shout, BY PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE THE DISEASE.

People really need to learn how to read

[kcuch]

Echospinner
March.25.2020 at 2:03 am
as you know nurse

Probably shoulda hung up the keyboard and been asleep a while ago, hunh?

[wagnert in atlanta]

You do know there's a difference between chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, especially in toxicity, right?
No, probably not.

[Dr. Ed]

Do competent MDs say "no" when asked for a medically-inappropriate drug?

[Ben of Houston]

I find this especially ignorant as the statements were said in public, on live TV, and are available throughout the internet. There is no question about what Trump said.

[Azathoth!!]

I find this especially ignorant as the statements were said in public, on live TV, and are available throughout the internet. There is no question about what Trump said.

This is absolutely correct.

The statements were made on live TV.

And bear zero resemblance to what the media is currently SAYING Trump said.

[Gray_Jay]

The effective dose, per Chinese protocols, is around 500 mg. AIUI, this genius got the bright idea to take a teaspoon (~5ml) of the stuff. Or about 5000 mg. A scale might have been prudent.

Just a bit outside the therapeutic window there, bub... FWIW, tylenol is almost as bad if the patient is a heavy drinker.

[Dr. Ed]

Tylenol is often used for suicide attempts...

[Gray_Jay]

And it's a really painful way to go, as the drug destroys the patient's liver.

[Wearenotperfect]

Some on this comment site, not going to mention who, find it ok to blame both convenience store thieves for the fatal actions of one thief. So yeah, Trump is to blame on this one as well!

[JesseAz]

You're fucking retarded arent you? Learn what "in commission of a felony" means.

[Wearenotperfect]

I'm the retarded one? Really, you pathetic piece of shit!

[NOYB2]

I don't place blame, I just want both of them kept out of society.

[zombietimeshare]

"The man and his wife both ingested chloroquine phosphate, reportedly believing it to be a miracle cure for coronavirus. The wife has survived..."

Well, it worked so success! He will not get coronavirus—or anything else. It's a miracle cure for all illnesses. Her mileage may vary. I wonder if his life insurance pays out for stupidity.

[KWlib]

Any retarded moron who believes a word of what Trump says is just a victim of Darwinism.

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid you idiots. The more the merrier.

[JesseAz]

The dumb liberals that permeate this site have really begun phoning it in.

[Sevo]

"Any retarded moron who believes a word of what Trump says is just a victim of Darwinism."

Fucking ignoramuses with TDS post crap like this.

[NOYB2]

Any retarded moron who believes a word of what Trumpa politician says is just a victim of Darwinism.

FTFY. That's' why we judge politicians by what they do, not what they say. Obama sounded very good during his campaign... mostly lies. Hillary wrote great position papers, again, mostly lies.

[Public Citizen]

There is only so much that can be done to prevent those in the Shallow End Of The Gene Pool from getting in over their heads and committing Stupidcide.
What we have here is a plain and simple case of Stupidcide. Reports were all over the internet more than 24 hours before Trump first mentioned it that Hydroxychloroquine, ~prescribed for Malaria~ was showing promise as a treatment.
If a person is too ignorant to recognize that this is a different chemical than the Chloroquine Phosphate that they imbibed then there is nothing that the rest of us can do to prevent them from looking in the cabinets at home and doing lab experiments on themselves. They're either functional adults or they need to be under 24-7 supervision, there is no middle ground.

[wagnert in atlanta]

No, no supervision. How else is the gene pool gonna get cleaned?
Oh, chloroquine. Right. At least the idiots won't get ick.
(Ichthyophthirius Multifilis, for non-fish owners.)

[NOYB2]

If a person is too ignorant to recognize that this is a different chemical than the Chloroquine Phosphate

That doesn't really matter. This class of drugs is simply not safe to take without medical supervision because the difference between a therapeutic and a fatal dose is fairly small.

[creech]

Good to know that if the Governor of New Joisy says to "evacuate the barrier islands immediately" in the face of an on-coming hurricane,
I can blame him if I do so at 100mph and have a serious traffic accident because I'm behaving recklessly.

[BigGiveNotBigGov]

While not an indication of Trump's culpability, it is an indication of his followers gullibility.

[Sevo]

And the level of TDS among many who post here.

[Fats of Fury]

The wifey sounded like a Hillary/Biden gal.

[Joey Tranchina]

I'd read several small pieces where no one explained the simple fact that while Trump stupidly and irresponsibly blathered about one chemical then these fools chose to take a different chemical with a similar name. Thank you.

Donald Trump is a blithering idiot for making irresponsible comments about medications to a nation of undereducated, confused and frightened people. What he did was wrong but that does not deprive this Arizona couple of the Darwin award, which they earned on their own.

[Sevo]

"...Donald Trump is a blithering idiot for making irresponsible comments about medications to a nation of undereducated, confused and frightened people..."

And you're a fucking ignoramus for posting that; dumber than the people you mention, by a long shot.

[SIV]

Incidentally, the aquarium cleaner was chloroquine phosphate. So is the medical form.

Congratulations. No one gets this right, but you did.

[SIV]

This doesn't belong here

[NOYB2]

For a lot of drugs, it's not just the chemical formula that matters, but also how you take it.

[Fats of Fury]

Preparation H is a good cure for your TDS. Make sure you apply it at the proper end, between your ears.

[NOYB2]

Donald Trump is a blithering idiot for making irresponsible comments about medications to a nation of undereducated, confused and frightened people.

Why do you think it is "irresponsible" to tell you "go drink X" and see whether you are so stupid that you actually will do it?

[Sevo]

"We saw Trump on TV—every channel—and all of his buddies said that this was safe," the woman told NBC. "Trump kept saying it was basically pretty much a cure."

[mpercy]

Actual tweets:

“HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine. The FDA has moved mountains - Thank You!” Trump tweeted Saturday morning.

“Hopefully they will BOTH…be put in use IMMEDIATELY. PEOPLE ARE DYING, MOVE FAST, and GOD BLESS EVERYONE!”

Not at all out of line "hopefully" ... "have a chance..."

“I feel good about it. That’s all it is. Just a feeling,” he said. “You know, I'm a smart guy. I feel good about it. And we're going to see. You're going to see soon enough.”

Stupid, but his feelings are his feelings and not medical advice, not did he actually spout any advice here...

"The hydroxychloroquine and the Z-Pak, I think as a combination probably is looking very, very good," he said.

"There's a real chance that it could have a tremendous impact, it would be a gift from God, if that worked it would be a big game changer," he added, quoting the example of patient who was ill but recovered after taking the drug.

Trump announced last week his administration was working to dramatically expand access to hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine, a related compound, following promising early studies in France and China that found the drugs helped patients suffering from the COVID-19 illness.

I don't see anything he said that could in any way be construed as "go and demand this drug from your doctor" let alone "go out and drink fish tank cleaner".

[Sevo]

Regardless, his comments had nothing to do with fish-tank cleaner.

[Flinch]

Nothing like good old fashioned... failure to read directions. There's always precautions in there, and sweeping those aside is just teeing up for a Darwin award.

[JustSomeDude]

"Journalists have correctly accused Trump of spreading misinformation about hydroxychloroquine"

If you replace "spreading misinformation" with "engaging in speculation", this sentence would be honest. Or, Mr Soave, do you have evidence that the drug in question is NOT effective at treating coronavirus?

[NOYB2]

The president was certainly wrong to create any expectation, at this early juncture, about hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin.

Really? Why was he wrong according to you?

[Intelligent Mr Toad]

Trump may not bear PRIMARY responsibility for this death, but he at least deserves credit for an assist.

In his press conference, he first ranted about how great "right-to-try" laws are, and, most likely without meaning to, said something which could easily be taken as encouragement to experiment on oneself:

People are living now that had no chance of living where we take treatments that would … Things that would have to go through years of a process. And if somebody was terminally ill and I would say, “Why wouldn’t they be able to try this?” They’d go to Asia, they’d go to Europe, they’d go all over the world to try and find something. Or some people, if they had no money, would go home to die. They’d go home to die. They had no hope. Right to try has been an incredible success, but this is beyond right to try.

Do you see how a stupid listener (and many of Trump's followers are very very stupid, and he knows this quite well) could take this to mean that you should try stuff out without waiting for instructions from doctors? And then, he continued:

Now, a drug called chloroquine, and some people would add to it, hydroxy, hydroxychloroquine, so chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine [....] Now, this is a common malaria drug. It’s also a drug used for strong arthritis. Somebody who has pretty serious arthritis also uses this in a somewhat different form, but it is known as a malaria drug and it’s been around for a long time and it’s very powerful. But the nice part is it’s been around for a long time, so we know that if it … If things don’t go as planned, it’s not going to kill anybody. When you go with a brand new drug, you don’t know that that’s going to happen. You have to see and you have to go long test. But this has been used in different forms, very powerful drug in different forms and it’s shown very encouraging, very, very encouraging early results, and we’re going to be able to make that drug available almost immediately. And that’s where the FDA has been so great. They’ve gone through the approval process, it’s been approved, and they did it. They took it down from many, many months to immediate. [...] There’s tremendous promise based on the results and other tests. There’s tremendous promise. And normally the FDA would take a long time to approve something like that and it was approved very, very quickly and it’s now approved by prescription. Individual states will handle it, they can handle it, doctors will handle it. And I think it’s going to be great. Then we’re quickly studying this drug and while we’re continuing to study it, but the studying is going to be also done in … As it’s given out to large groups of people, perhaps in New York and other places.

Any non-idiot would have anticipated that that kind of talk-- I've bolded and underlined the most dangerous parts-- would encourage some idiot to experiment with "other forms" of chloroquine. "It's not going to kill anybody." Ri-i-i-i-i-ight.

This is the kind of error someone like, say, the Clintons, or Barack Obama, or even Ronald Reagan or the Elder Bush (GHW), would be very unlikely to make. They would ANTICIPATE. They would have people on their staffs who would look up other possible uses of chloroquine, and they wouldn't do this PT-Barnum-esque hype-up-the-bullshtt thing which Trump has used, successfully, to make himself famous and (maybe) rich, by peddling fantasies like Trump University.

(I'm not saying that Dem candidates don't use bullshtt, but they are almost always careful in how they formulate it and they don't do it blindly or impulsively the way Trump does. Can you imagine either of the Clintons, or Obama, mentioning a not-yet-approved drug in a speech without having the speech vetted by a medical expert first, and without measuring their words carefully? That's the kind of thing you learn in law school: how to anticipate risk of causing damages or incurring liability. One of them would have added a warning not to take it by yourself, AT LEAST.

So when the dead guy gets the Darwin Award which he deserves, a portion of it should go to Donald Trump.

[Echospinner]

Well if there is one thing my experiences with the legal profession have taught me it is exactly the advice you give. Be very careful in what you say and listen to the question first. Yes, no, I don’t know.

Cowboy wisdom. “If you find yourself in a hole. Stop digging”

[Azathoth!!]

It's like you simply refuse to understand that used AS PRESCRIBED it's a well known, considered to be safe drug.

Used improperly, nearly EVERY substance on the planet is lethal.

Here's a sentence you didn't bold for some reason...

doctors will handle it.

[Intelligent Mr Toad]

Oh, I do understand quite well. My complaint is that Trump's wording in his press conference made it sound like an invitation to mess with the drugs WITHOUT consulting a doctor.

[Gubba Bump]

I pledge to send 500 Mr. Yuk stickers to the elementary school closest to this woman's house. I then call on the 5th graders to go to that house and label any remaining consumable they deem too dangerous for her to swallow.

[Echospinner]

Found this today. It is an opinion piece published in NEJM about clinical trials and use of experimental drugs and protocols in the current pandemic.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2763802

I thought it was a very informative perspective.

Quote from the article.

“As a practical example, chloroquine/hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, and lopinavir-ritonavir have a variety of adverse effects, including QT prolongation, torsades de pointes, hepatitis, acute pancreatitis, neutropenia, and anaphylaxis. Considering that most patients who have died from COVID-19 were elderly and had cardiovascular comorbidities and that affected patients frequently have cardiac arrhythmias,4,5 chloroquine/hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, and lopinavir-ritonavir could potentially increase the risk of cardiac death. Additionally, hepatitis and neutropenia are clinical manifestations of COVID-19, and both hepatic and bone marrow dysfunction could be made worse by the off-label use of these drugs; thus, it would be impossible to differentiate the drug-related adverse effects from the disease manifestations in the absence of a control group.“

[Echospinner]

In addition one published study has demonstrated that the lopinavir-ritonavir trial has failed to produce benefits and was discontinued.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2001282?query=featured_coronavirus

[Echospinner]

The first article was JAMA network. Not NEJM.

[Truthteller1]

The fact that this article was written is an indictment on the insanity of the media.

However I'm sure Boehm disagrees with the premise of the article.

[Bodica Slayer of Woodchip]

Psalm 146:3-5 King James Version (KJV)
Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

[Rob Misek]

A peer reviewed study published in Virology Journal in 2005 concluded

“ Chloroquine is effective in preventing the spread of SARS CoV in cell culture. Favorable inhibition of virus spread was observed when the cells were either treated with chloroquine prior to or after SARS CoV infection. In addition, the indirect immunofluorescence assay described herein represents a simple and rapid method for screening SARS-CoV antiviral compounds.”

That was 15 years ago.

http://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-422X-2-69

[JennieH]

Why do people keep saying it’s a fish tank cleaner? It makes it sound like there was bleach in there or something. Chloroquine phosphate is used to treat parasites on fish, not clean the tank, and it sounds like she said herself that she used it to treat her koi fish. Also, for all practical purposes except calculating dosage, chloroquine phosphate is the same as chloroquine.

Based on an old thread from the aquarium forum reef2reef in which they discussed how to obtain chloroquine phosphate by getting a prescription from a vet, I suspect that it really was an overdose of that chemical (or perhaps an allergy to it) that kill him. My back-of-the-envelope calculation indicates that the lethal dose of chloroquine phosphate is about 22 grams. For context, Ick-Shield, a fish medicine you can buy online that consists of a form of chloroquine, comes with 50 grams of powder in a small bottle. I think it's conceivable they drank 22 grams but it probably would have needed to be more than a couple tablespoons.

Either way, I don’t disagree that Trump isn’t really to blame, but what they did doesn’t strike me as quite so completely idiotic as this article implies.

[Rob Misek]

It makes me wonder how they survived as long as they did?

Dumb luck.

[TJJ2000]

But is "chloroquine" really the substance being used or is "Hydroxychloroquine" as they are different compounds entirely. Wikipedia has both marked as used during COVID-19 testing. Maybe wikipedia is the very culprit of the misunderstanding.

[JennieH]

Yeah, I've seen people talking about them both being used to treat malaria and potentially COVID-19, so I assumed they were about the same. However... I just found the following from Shi et al. 2017, Cancer Chemotherapy and Pharmacology:

"Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ), the analog of chloroquine, antimalarial lysosomotropic agents, differs from chloroquine only by a hydroxyl group and inhibits autophagy and is proved to be threefold less toxic than chloroquine"

[eddyjames]

I've heard, tying a plastic bag over your head will cure just about everything. Democrats should try it, let me know how it works out.

[You're Kidding]

And here those who know me wonder why I'm such a supporter of social Darwinism?

[PChoate]

He’s responsible. He doesn’t have any medical background. He has no place recommending treatments. Let the professionals do their jobs.

[Tony]

Yes he is. The wife of the dead guy said he was.

[Mildred Murphy]

Well, it looks not every aquariumist is smart enough to do a deep research before using something. That was an example... Sad, but you can't blame someone due to actions you performed yourself.