Coronavirus

Gavin Newsom Orders 40 Million Californians To Stay Home During Coronavirus Crisis. Is He Right To Do It?

The spread of COVID-19 is making once unthinkably extreme policies seem like the least bad option.

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California, at long last, has decided to ban everything. On Thursday evening, Gov. Gavin Newsom (D) issued an order for all 40 million state residents to stay home in an attempt to stem the spread of the COVID-19 virus.

"We need to bend the curve in the state of California," Newsom said in a televised address last night, referring to the consensus among public health experts that rapid community transmission of the virus will overwhelm the U.S. hospital system. "There's a recognition of our interdependence that requires of this moment that we direct a statewide order for people to stay at home…we are confident that the people of the state of California will abide by it."

The governor's directive requires people to stay in their homes unless going out for certain necessary activities. Grocery stores, pharmacies, laundromats, banks, and gas stations will remain open. Workers in 16 federally recognized critical infrastructure sectors are also exempt.

Newsom said it was still OK to venture outside so long as appropriate social distancing practices are observed. But unless you're walking your dog or running to Costco, the standing order from California's state government is to stay indoors.

The Los Angeles Times calls this mandatory directive "an unprecedented action in modern California history."

The practical effects of the governor's order remain to be seen. Newsom noted in his address that 21.3 million Californians were already under similar local lockdown restrictions.

Police are also going to have a hard time telling if people still out and around are partaking in still-permitted essential trips or not. That could mean they take a hands-off approach. It could also mean law enforcement will treat anyone outside their homes with suspicion, opening the door to unprecedented levels of police harassment.

Whether the police will have the capacity or willingness to do that in this current crisis remains to be seen.

Early evidence from local lockdowns in California suggests that enforcement is going to fall hardest on businesses that disobey the directive to shut down, or for whom there's confusion about whether they count as an essential service. The Mercury News reports that police across the state have been forcibly closing everything from bars to gun stores to pool cleaning businesses. Expect more of that.

Even in these extraordinary times, Newsom's order is remarkable. Is it also prudent?

California, like the rest of the country, is scrambling to mitigate the spread of a once-in-a-century pandemic with the potential to kill a million or more people in the U.S. alone. In that context, even many libertarians are accepting government-imposed restrictions.

"We are all walking negative externalities right now that the market just can't fix," said self-described libertarian financier Cliff Asness on Twitter, arguing for aggressive government intervention to stop COVID-19's spread. "What we're doing now is bad policy," the Washington Post's Meghan McArdle said of government-enforced social distancing measures. "It is also the best policy available, at least for the short term."

Others, like libertarian constitutional law scholar Richard Epstein, have cast doubt on the worst-case scenarios being used to justify the extreme lockdown measures being taken to combat the virus.

"Even though self-help measures like avoiding crowded spaces make abundant sense, the massive public controls do not. In light of the available raw data, public officials have gone overboard," Epstein wrote in a Monday column.

Rep. Thomas Massie (R–Ky.) is of the same mind.

Even if one agrees that extreme social distancing measures and stay-at-home orders are necessary, they will certainly cause severe economic disruption and leave a legacy of expanded police powers long after the current crisis fades. Newsom's stay at home order, worryingly, doesn't come with an expiration date.

Increasingly, though, it appears there are no good policy options for dealing with Covid-19, only less bad ones.

NEXT: These Churches Refuse To Close Over COVID-19. Does the Constitution Protect Their Right To Remain Open?

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  1. “…”We need to bend the curve in the state of California,”…”

    That worked so well the last time a glib lefty twit claimed that as a goal.

    1. Do you have a pay~pal ? because if you have you can make an extra 2000 weekly to your revenue only working at home 3 hours per day… go here… Read More

  2. Reason is only critical of Republicans. Therefore this article doesn’t exist.

    1. I would argue the article isn’t really critical if Newsome at all.

    2. “Newsom’s stay at home order, worryingly, doesn’t come with an expiration date”

      “Worryingly”… ouch! Yeah, that’s some pretty brutal criticism.
      Definitely the equivalent of all the insane shrieking about WW3 and collusion.

    3. Japan has a pretty good policy. Still has a low infection rate and low mortality rate. And it started there before anywhere in Europe.

    4. Reason is only critical of Republicans. Therefore this article doesn’t exist.

      “Trump Telling People To Treat Their COVID Infections With Gin and Tonic”

      “Two Republican Senators Guilty Of Insider Trading While Telling People Not To Panic”

      “With No Good Options Governor Newsom Chooses Least Bad Option”

      – Reason Magazine

      1. Wait, gin and tonic is a cure? SOLD!

        1. The “tonic” part could be, especially if there is sufficient quinine.
          The gin just makes the taste bearable.

          1. And more fun!

  3. What’s worrying me about all of this is that the question of “Is it the government’s job to protect you from a virus?” seems to be getting a resounding “YES!” from a lot of people.

    As Rep. Massie correctly points out, that cure is worse than the disease.

    1. What’s worrying me about all of this is that the question of “Is it the government’s job to protect you from a virus?” seems to be getting a resounding “YES!” from a lot of people.

      Yeah – even self-described libertarians like Asness and McCardle are saying “the government can’t do anything that isn’t bad, therefore the government needs to do something bad.”

    2. We are killing a spider with a sledgehammer.

      1. While holding onto the spider.

        1. Well played, sir.

          1. I don’t understa…OW!!!

    3. That’s a reasonable thing to worry about, but here, government is really protecting us from harming each other – by transmitting the disease – and that _is_ a legit thing even us libertarians tend to look favorably upon.

      1. Sir, do you understand the word “overkill”? By that logic, the Nazis were protecting Europe from the few Jews, gays, Roma, and cripples who were criminals.

      2. No they aren’t. If people want to risk it, that is THEIR decision, not the governments.

  4. It has become clear that the fascists are using this new disease as a chance to test all of their legislative fantasies.
    While it might make a little bit of sense to limit the truly susceptible, telling all the young, healthy workers to stay home is just a trial to wreck the CA economy in order to continue ‘recovery’ efforts but government fiat instead of individual freedoms.
    In reality, I suspect the difference between the true medical impact of this variant and having done nothing more than using the bully pulpit to inform citizens and let them figure out what to do for themselves will be within the margin of error for any study.
    Even the worst case scenarios are now looking less disruptive than the economic chaos being unleashed by our rulers.
    Disclosure: I have (out of state) family members who have tested positive.

    1. Why were they tested?

      1. Four out of five symptoms; walk a mile to the public health office for the test rather than ride public transit.

        1. i want very badly to make a joke about responding to you now making me susceptible … but I also hope they’re okay

        2. People still take public transportation in Japan. Lots of masks though. The only measures they have really taken are closing schools and cancelling large gatherings. But the did it early and that’s the key to their low infection rate and low death rate.

    2. “While it might make a little bit of sense to limit the truly susceptible, telling all the young, healthy workers to stay home is just a trial to wreck the CA economy in order to continue ‘recovery’ efforts but government fiat instead of individual freedoms.”

      It’s gone national. The closed all the bars and restaurants in Wisconsin. I’m surprised that there haven’t been riots.

    3. Exactly – this is like a dream come true for most politicians. A chance to let their authoritarian freak out!

      My favorite is the curfews, because of course the virus is more contagious between the hours of 10 and 5.

  5. >>The governor’s directive requires people to stay in their homes unless going out for certain necessary activities.

    I told my pops to get on I-80 and drive east toward Utah to see what happens but I don’t think he’s the shit-disturbing type

    1. I’m in CA. I need to travel 30 miles to my second home (vacant), just to be sure it’s O.K. I haven’t visited it in more than a week.

      I’m normally not paranoid but, what am I going to say if the CHP stops me to “question” why I’m driving and where I’m going.

      Sure, they really don’t have probable cause to stop me and I could contest it on that basis. For all he knows, I could be one of the various “exempt” classes of people who are allowed to travel. And, I certainly won’t be coming within six feet of another person on this trip anyway and thus pose no danger.

      But it dawned on me this morning, while reading a news article about the various “exemptions” that I’d just tell the cop I’m homeless. That’s the stupidest exemption I saw. Talk about a vulnerable population that could easily spread the virus around.

      What’s he going to do? Shoot me?

      He’ll tell me to go home and I’ll tell him I am. By way of visiting that other home.

      1. :What’s he going to do? Shoot me?”

        Yes.

  6. This will last only until people no longer put up with it. At that point, the measure will be declared successful and no longer necessary. Nothing else will have changed. It’s like attacking the traffic accident problem, or the traffic problem for that matter, by closing the roads.

    1. Best analogy I heard is it’s like using C4 to crack a nut.

      1. Which will also get you arrested – – – – – – – –

        1. depends on where you are when you do it. AND how much C4 you use.

          1. It also depends on whose nuts you are trying to crack. 🙂

  7. Our first confirmed case of this was January 21st, Italy’s was the 30th. where are the bodies?

    1. Walking around, and now immune.

      1. BOOM!!! You nailed it. Hard.

        Case in point: Four hundred yanks, all tested positive, were in quarantine on a cruise ship, our government “wisely” picked them up and brought them home, quarantining them on military bases. Of those 400, THREE ever developed symptoms, all survived just fine. Sick for a few days, recovered…….

        WHAT happened to the other 397? Simple.. their immune systems were in good enough condition they functioned as God designed them, quickly determing that virus to be a hostile invader. Ganged up on it, beat it up, trained and deployed plenty of troops to destroy it and keep any new invaders at bay. That’s what happened.

        And WITHOUT TEST KITS aplenty, we will never know how many really had it, and how many had it without symptoms of any kind, ever. Thus the gummit poohbahs can continue their endless drivel and drive everypne scared crazy and doing dumb things. The lack of test kits and the ability to read them, spread about the nation in abundance, is the result of a carefully thought out plan. It is a feature, not a bug.

        Just think.. if this thing gets out of control, as they seem to hope it does, they will be able to implement many of the programmes they’ve been trying to legislate. If things settle down and the threat goes away, there’ll be no end to the mutual patting of backs, slapping of shoulders, high fiving (touching will once more be legal…) and happy dancing, because WE SAVED EVERYONE”S BACON”’.

    2. Thank you. We’ve been hearing how “OMG, it’s coming, it’s coming, the hospitals are going to be overwhelmed and it will be like Lombardy everywhere in the US” for a while now. It’s been a week since shit REALLY started getting serious (schools getting closed, the first restrictions on businesses, etc.), at least a couple weeks since we knew it was probably going to be widespread. People talked about a two week incubation period, but from what I’ve seen, that is probably much higher than the average- 5 days seems to be more likely. But regardless, even at two weeks, we should be starting to see signs of significantly above average serious illnesses nationwide. I’m not. Yes the number of cases is increasing dramatically, but it should be obvious to everyone that is because of more testing. Really, the more positive cases we see without a corresponding percentage increase in hospital admissions for respiratory issues or deaths, the more we should feel good about this not being that big of a deal. Because again, who cares if everyone gets it if they don’t get that sick?

      1. we should be starting to see signs of significantly above average serious illnesses nationwide. I’m not.

        Do you work in a hospital? Cuz in my city, that’s where the seriously ill people go and I don’t see em. Maybe where you live, they knock on everyone’s door saying I have a serious illness. Just wanted to tell you that. Goodbye

        The reason I think the US finally panicked in the last couple of weeks is because the ‘influenza-like illness’ (about halfway down that page) as a % of hospital admissions has not behaved as it normally does this time of year – plummeting from ‘flu season’ to near-nothing. Instead, it had a slower descent from peak than normal – and has turned around gone up the last two weeks.

        IOW – CDC and hospitals were completely asleep at the switch. Have been treating stuff as influenza rather than testing for Covid. And the consequence is likely that medical staff are now infected in a higher % than they think (unless they have been tested) – and they are about to hit an exponential wall of Covid – or maybe still diagnosed as influenza in some states – patients

        1. On that same page:

          Among the 40 jurisdictions with high ILI activity, ILI increased relative to the previous week in 26, remained stable in 10 and declined in 4. Thirty-five of the jurisdictions with high ILI activity also had clinical laboratory data available and in those, the percent of specimens testing positive for influenza decreased in 30, remained stable in 4 and increased in only 1.

          I believe this is called fighting the last war.

        2. “…Maybe where you live, they knock on everyone’s door saying I have a serious illness. Just wanted to tell you that. Goodbye…”

          I guess where you live, those things called newspapers and news casts don’t exist.
          Wave that PANIC flag, JFree! Scream at the top of your lungs!

        3. Don’t you know there are vape pens out there…and The Children…and something something…

          1. lafe.long, March.16.2020 at 3:50 pm
            The Protection of Mice against Infection with Air-borne Influenza Virus by Means of Propylene Glycol Vapor.
            They have now extended their observations to the effect of propylene glycol vapour on influenza virus. Vapour was employed instead of an aerosol because it has been found that the glycols are much more active in this form, very much smaller amounts being required for effective air sterilization.
            https://www.cabdirect.org/cabdirect/abstract/19422701086

    3. Italy has an older population and a culture of snuggling. Old and young live together in big extended families.

  8. California orders its nearly 40 million residents to stay home to prevent the spread of coronavirus

    “This is a moment where we need some straight talk,” Newsom told reporters. “As individuals and as a community, we need to do more to meet this moment.”

    The order will not be enforced by law enforcement, he added.

    “I don’t believe the people of California need to be told through law enforcement that it’s appropriate just to home-isolate, protect themselves,” Newsom said. “We are confident that the people of the state of California will abide by it and do the right thing.”

    So NOT Martial Law…yet.

    1. “We are confident that the people of the state of California will abide by it and do the right thing.”

      One wonders if he’ll extend this logic to taxation or if those laws will still be enforced by law enforcement.

      1. The California tax people are famous for being ruthless.

        Contrary to News Reports, California Is Actually a Loser in Its 26-year Tax War Against Tech Inventor Gilbert Hyatt

        On May 13, the Sacramento Bee headlined its story “California wins last round of $25 million, 26-year tax fight with wealthy inventor,” but as the piece noted, the Supreme Court ruling “will not send any new tax revenue to California” and the case against Gilbert Hyatt “consumed more than $25 million of Franchise Tax Board resources over the course of 26 years.” That is almost twice the $13.3 million the FTB sought to grab in the first place, so Californians can be forgiven for calling the marathon war against Hyatt a clear loss for taxpayers.

    2. “The order will not be enforced by law enforcement, he added.”

      Oh, they’ll find a way.

    3. Wrong question should government be asking people to do something, that is fine. The real question is do they have a right to enforce the rules.

      They cannot make us slaves and that really is what this comes down to. The fascist are winning at the moment and the sheeple will comply.

  9. “California, at long last, has decided to ban everything.”

    This was, of course, inevitable.

    1. Ironically enough, shitting on the sidewalk is now the only thing that ISN’T a public health hazard in California.

      1. Don’t forget all the used needles and the glory holes in the park washrooms. That’s okay too.

      2. Well I saw a report that some idiot flushed strips of a t-shirt down the toilet (evidently they were out of TP). So now it isn’t just the homeless’s shit all over the streets. Equality of outcome achieved!

      3. ad dn’t forget.. turds DO carry this virus. Fun, eh?

  10. When there are anti-body tests, does that mean those who are symptom free and have immunity can roam free while the rest of the citizenry is still caged?

    1. No, there’s 2 cases of people who tested positive, then healthy then positive again.

      This clearly is proof that the virus is immunity resistant. Not that a few tests might have been in error.

      I’d be very curious to see the anti-body test, give us an idea on both transmission and lethality.

      1. This clearly is proof that the virus is immunity resistant. Not that a few tests might have been in error.

        The ability for someone to be co-infected with another virus and survive both is apparently so statistically improbable to be unthinkable.

      2. Korea have tested the vast majority of their people. A very high percentage test positive, but theirs has been one of the lowest transmission rates (per symptoms) and certainly the lowest mortality rte.. probably because they KNOW how many are carrying tne antibody, and can calculate an accurate mortalithy rate.. that is, percent of people who HAVE the virus in signficant quantity, who actually die with it.
        In Wuhan they were not able to test anywhere near the whole population, so their numbers of infected were low, so with the same number of deaths since the infected number is low, the death rate is higher.

        Statistics CAN and ARE able to tell diferent stories.

        Here in the US wiht no real way of testing very many, we also have no clue how many picked up the virus then their immune systems did their jog, and they never got symptoms. Thus were never counted in the total pool of contaminated.

        This is part of why I am convinced they delibaratly played games with getting WORKING RELIABLE tests in large enough numbers to be useful, THAN imposed strict “you gotta have US read the tests, in our ONE lab in Maryland.. or wherever it was. That also could easily lend to rigged reporting of actual numbers of positive tests, “raising” the death rate higher yet, in order to scare us all into putting up with…. well, the stuff we ARE putting up with.

  11. I think he over stepped his power. And , this looks like a taking to me with all the economic losses due to his action. If they can get away with this wait until they use these powers for climate change. It seems many want to purposely destroy the economy.

    1. My personal net worth has dropped $1.4M (I’m not lying) due to stock market panic this month. Can I sell out, recognize the losses and get him to pay me back for what is probably an illegal order?

  12. “Increasingly, though, it appears there are no good policy options for dealing with Covid-19, only less bad ones.”

    Trump’s initial response of pointing out that it’s not really all that dangerous and people should calm down was a pretty good policy option. Too bad he abandoned it in favor of “let’s be more like North Korea.”

    1. Man, this post is going to be hilarious in two weeks

  13. So, Governor, how many people will die as a result of your dictates?

    The question of whether the benefit is worth the cost does not seem to be getting much discussion in a world which wants to believe that all risk can be eliminated by a few well made mandates.

    1. There is no discussion of cost, because the fuckers making the decisions to shut down the economy will face zero consequences for it. In fact, they’re likely to get a budget hike.

      1. When you’re exclusively playing with Other People’s Money, cost really isn’t your concern.

        1. Absolutely. It’s why the health care system is likely to be overwhelmed. We’ve become so divorced from the cost of care that people flood emergency rooms with bad colds. And they expect antibiotics. Why are we not focusing on proactive measures instead of draconian preventive measures? Refuse to see people who come in with a cold. Send back pain patients to urgent care facilities. Maybe build more beds and buy more respirators instead of locking down the damn country. I’m appalled.

          1. Actually, Kaiser Permanente is doing that.

            My wife’s (aged 68) doctor wanted her to get her second pneumonia shot, just in case she should contract the virus. It would at least provide some protection against Covid-19 invoking pneumonia if she does get it. That’s part of the higher risk for the elderly in contracting any resperitory virus. It weakens the lungs and allows pneumonia to take hold. That’s why they have pneumonia vaccines for old folks like us.

            She went to the hospital yesterday, Dr’s orders on file, to receive the second half of the immunization series and the clerk at the desk told her, “No way. We are not giving immunizations now. Dr’s orders or not.”

            A low level desk clerk, has more authority than a doctor. Who’d have thunk it?

            Government run medicine anyone? Anyone?

            1. SINGLE PAYER – amiright?

              And I didn’t mean refuse vaccines – those can be administered at pharmacies. As you note, that is precisely the kind of thing that will help prevent deaths from this dread virus and should be offered, but not at hospitals. I got a flu shot at my office last year. I guess severe draconian measures are all they know.

  14. This is all the fault of Prop 13

    1. lol

  15. A report “from the ground” in CA:

    Though I no longer live in CA, I do have business interests there. A report this morning from a smallish North Cali county indicates that many businesses which are “shuttered” are getting very creative, including clothing stores, gift shops and other “closed storefronts” utilizing online and phone orders and reports that former “food trucks” and other vehicles are now delivering gifts and other retail items – clothing, books, whatever — door-to-door. Score one for free markets.

    1. I wouldn’t count that as a score for free markets, in a free market they wouldn’t have been closed in the first place.

      It’s a testament to how resourceful business owners can be in working around the lack of freedom in the market.

      1. “It’s a testament to how resourceful business owners can be in working around the lack of freedom in the market.”

        Yeah, that IS what I should have said.

    2. Reporting direct from the heart of the crisis, any store that sells anything that can be tangentially categorized as a food item is open.

      What’s really happening is that it takes forever to go to the store because the stores only let a limited number of people in at a time, resulting in long lines at the store entrance. And people are still hoarding paper products, canned goods and produce.

      I don’t think many people really care what Gavin has to say, and tellingly AFAIK none of the schools, public or private, K-12 or higher, have changed their plans to fit his pronouncements. What people are doing they’re doing because it’s what their doing.

      1. “I don’t think many people really care what Gavin has to say…”

        And this is, indeed, a good sign.

        1. Yeah – even my Warren-supporting brother thinks he’s a buffoon. It gives me hope for the future.

      2. “the stores only let a limited number of people in at a time, resulting in long lines at the store entrance.”

        And having those people standing around together outside the store instead of inside is helping… how?

        1. My bet is that it’s more of an employee demand.

        2. Exactly.

  16. Funny thing is, sunlight kills the virus.
    So yeah, stay inside.

    1. You got a cite for that? UV kills it, but in far higher levels than you’d get from sunlight, even tanning bed levels of UV don’t kill it.

      1. Predicted Inactivation of Viruses of Relevance to Biodefense by Solar Radiation

        It still is not a sure thing and different viruses have different reactions to solar rays and different solar particles.

        The paper explains why tanning beds dont hurt viruses much.

  17. Interesting that gun stores aren’t essential. I guess the constitution isn’t essential either.

    1. Who needs a gun in the middle of a wave of mass hysteria resulting in shortages of necessary, life-saving supplies?

  18. First, Newsom is an idiot and should be recalled. Second, he should have left it up to the county managers. It is not a uniform situation between urban, suburban, farming and mountain communities. And anyone can lie and say they are working or traveling for a necessary activity. Finally, this is the result of ignoring your homeless and immigrant problems until they fucking explode in your face. California Democrats are going to find out just how much they are loved or hated.

    1. No. He’s EMPHASIZED the need to find housing for the homeless, the most vulnerable population, immediately. And, he’s taken action to do so. He’s just using the virus as an excuse to further his “homeless agenda” which he laid out in his May revise.

      Trailers are on the way. Empty commercial spaces will be activated as “homes” for the homeless.

      I can’t wait to see what he’s going to do when the virus scare is past. Is he going to kick all those formerly “homeless” bums back out into the street?

  19. I expected that as more testing and more data became available, we’d definitely see the mortality rate of confirmed cases would fall under 1%. I’m at the point where it’s clear that’s not going to happen. There’s still going to be many unconfirmed cases with mild or non-existent symptoms where people didn’t get tested, but it’s hard to speculate what kind of numbers those are.

    I’m still holding out hope that we’re going to see a peak in early April, and then can start returning to a state of normalcy.

    1. Newsom isn’t giving up this power.

    2. Per the CDC the death rate today is lower than the death rate yesterday.

  20. Civil disobedience: In defiance of California’s dangerously overreactive “shelter in place” order, I’ll be taking “non-essential” rides on the Arcata city bus twice a day, six days a week.
    #FreedomRides2020

    1. That’s Arcata in Humboldt County, not Arcadia in Los Angeles County. Shortly before Newsom put the whole state on lockdown, Humboldt County imposed it locally even though this is definitely not a hot zone. We’ve had only one known case, someone who has subsequently recovered.

  21. unless you’re walking your dog …, the standing order from California’s state government is to stay indoors.

    Wait for the excitement when Animal Control is ordered to exterminate those vectors.

    1. California cops are canceling their Viagra prescriptions as we speak.

    2. Apparently, you now need your dog’s permission to go out for a run on the sidewalk. There is something very Californian in that.

      1. Well, I was out mowing my front lawn today when a teenager came flying by, out for a long run.

        He said, ‘hi’ so as not to scare me. (I had my back to him as I was sweeping the clippings up from the gutter.) And I said, ‘hi’ back of course.

        Then I marveled at how nice it must be to still be young and put in a few miles a day like that. Up until I was 40 something, I used to put in one to three miles per day to keep in shape for archery season. Now, at age 63, I’d be hard pressed to put in a half mile walking…..and feeling like I’ll never be able to get back to that kind of cardiovascular shape again.

  22. And when some guy decides his privately owned store is an essential business because its the only way he’s gonna eat? Also, how about all the homeless, where the hell are they supposed to go? That’s the real reason the cops aren’t being used to enforce this, because they’d have to interact with the hobos and druggies, and the union would have a fit about health hazards.

    Side note, if you’re thinking about stocking up on ammo, do it now. Even if your state’s gun-friendly, if they close down the government, the gun stores will also most likely close down, they can’t sell guns without the gov’t database, and ammo sales alone usually isn’t enough to keep them open.

    1. And when some guy decides his privately owned store is an essential business because its the only way he’s gonna eat?

      That’s supposedly who law enforcement is taking action against, but it’s unclear to me what the consequences are for violating the diktat. It seems like they’re pretty much just sternly telling people to close their businesses and people are complying because they’re nice. There’s only so long that’s going to last.

      Also, how about all the homeless, where the hell are they supposed to go?

      It’s “Revealed Preferences” time. I.e. no one cares. The homeless probably don’t even know this is happening, and are wondering where everybody went and who’s going to bring them spare change.

      That’s the real reason the cops aren’t being used to enforce this, because they’d have to interact with the hobos and druggies, and the union would have a fit about health hazards.

      Nah – it’s because they realize this is unenforceable in the most pragmatic sense. Most cops probably wouldn’t even agree to try to enforce it. I mean, what are you going to do, stop everybody and demand “are you on your way to a grocery store, a healthcare provider, a pet supply store, a take-out restaurant, a public-works construction site or your job at any of these places?”

      “Umm . . . yes?”

      This is just Gavin pretending he’s the one who made everyone stay inside. Commanding the tides, so to speak.

      1. “Also, how about all the homeless, where the hell are they supposed to go?

        It’s “Revealed Preferences” time.”

        Not quite; it’s the “Revealed Results” of those preferences.
        The preferences of those who kinda figured hanging out, maybe shooting up, sharing dobbie, waiting for that nice oriental gal to come by and drop off box lunches (really; true story in SF and she’d deliver a new tent, too!); maybe those preferences weren’t all that good an idea, even if that fucking idiot dropped off those lunches. But they worked for a while.
        There are those few ‘homeless’ who really have no alternative; they are due our support.
        But In SF, there has been absolutely no effort to triage them from the slackers, and the (profitable) industry which has grown up to collect the taxpayer money has no interest in doing so.
        Those few will suffer more than the able-bodies and the scumbags running the ‘non-profits’.

    2. I’d like to think that most self-respecting libertarians had plenty of ammo long before coronavirus even existed.

  23. I am completely dismayed by the Libertarian response to these measures. I come to read Reason in order to get articles driven by just that: reason. Are we seriously shrugging our shoulders at a state that has essentially imposed martial law in response to this virus when nobody really knows the trajectory? Think chaos theory – there are far too many variables for us to predict how this will play out. We don’t actually know how many are carriers or how many are infected, which means that the statistics being cited are useless. The virus will mutate. Morbid as it sounds, the most virulent strains are unlikely to replicate because they kill the host before they can spread. I am so disappointed that the writers and editors here would post about such a HUGE exercise of government power and massive limitation on civil liberties with an “oh well” and a shrug. The police in California can essentially stop anyone and ask them what their business is now. How very “show me your papers.” And my friends at Reason are okay with it?

    1. They’ve been soft for a while.

    2. I’m not so worried about the police. But, when I saw last night plans to deploy the national guard to “help with law enforcement” to states that request it, shivers went down my spine.

      Maybe those far out conspiracy theorists aren’t wrong?

      If anyone would like to use the Guard to enforce their ill begotten powers, the leftists in CA office would. And, if any society would accept such measures with no questions, the liberals in this stupid state would.

      “It’s all for your own good” should be the state mantra!

  24. Gavin Newsom Orders 40 Million Californians To Stay Home During Coronavirus Crisis. Is He Right To Do It?

    No.

    Next!

  25. Depending on whether or not Newsome knows what he’s doing, this could be very successful for him. You need to rally the people together with a good “noble cause” and a “we’re all in this together” sense of shared sacrifice for the common good and – perhaps counter-intuitively – the more painful the sacrifice, the more the people will believe in the cause.

    (It’s well known in psychology that people hate to think that they’re doing stupid things for a bad reason or for no reason at all, therefore they rationalize to themselves that since they would have to be stupid to be doing this, and they know they’re not stupid, there must be a good reason for their doing it. And the stupider and more obvious the rationalizing, the tighter they cling to it. It’s why when con-men get exposed, their most ardent supporters are the very people they’ve conned, refusing to desert their faith that they’re not stupid enough to have been swindled and that the nice Nigerian prince really is going to send them that check as soon as they can send him the $1800 he needs for the transfer fee.)

    Throw in the well-known directed hate toward The Other – which would be Trump and his supporters – and you’ve whipped up a mob of dangerously irrational people who don’t know much but they’ll do what they’re told, love who they’re told to love, hate whom they’re told to hate, eagerly lay down their lives for the cause when they’re asked. Doesn’t matter if it’s the Emperor, Mother Russia, the Fuhrer, or Elvis, the madness of crowds works the same way and if you know how it works you can manipulate the outcome. They’re hard to fight because the more the evidence mounts that they’re wrong, the more they refuse to listen to reason.

    (This may or may not apply to the worshipers at the shrine of Our Lord and Savior Donald J Trump, because they are obviously not a bit irrational and not the least tiny bit like a cult and not at all like what I just described with the noble cause, the shared sacrificing, the hatred of The Other, the responding like well-trained dogs when they’re told to cheer this one and to boo that one. They would never praise His Holy Name no matter what he did or said, even when it directly contradicts the thing He did or said yesterday which they also praised His Holy Name for doing or saying. So just put that right out of your head, I’m definitely not including Trump in the category of manipulative mob-rulers.)

    1. “dangerously irrational people”

      You just described the vast majority of the 40M souls who inhabit CA. Ask me how I know.

  26. “California, at long last, has decided to ban everything. On Thursday evening, Gov. Gavin Newsom (D) issued an order for all 40 million state residents to stay home in an attempt to stem the spread of the COVID-19 virus.

    If Newsom is trying to stop the spread by ordering people to stay home, then he’s an idiot. Social distancing will not stop the spread–it will only slow it down.

    Ordering 40 million people to stay home from work, on the other hand, will vastly exacerbate what was already sure to be an economic downturn. When the economic indicators start coming in and the layoffs start coming in waves, try to remember that when the state of California was staring into the abyss, Democratic governor Gavin Newsom was the fucking idiot that made it against the law to go to work.

    Fuck Gavin Newsom.

    1. Word.

      They love using that graph with no Y axis numbers so we can’t determine the supposed amount of total lives saved because they went to the hospital later as opposed to now vs cost to save them.

      It’s infinite money per life and the government isn’t spending any of it. They will surely claim the seizures of businesses was temporary, so, no 5th amendment taking.

      We need the production to pay for the treatment of all these potential sick people. I don’t think Newsom has the vaguest idea of what he has unleashed. He just isn’t capable of shouldering the blame for a high death number, inevitable or not.

      When the Committee of Public Safety comes for him, I will cheer. He is going to ruin my life. He can’t even give certainty for the length of the assfucking. Or any objective criteria to know either (a) it is not working; (b) it can’t work; or (c) it has worked. Without that criteria, it is his judgment, and he’ll never have the stones to open anything back up until pitchforks and scythes are at the door.

    2. Uh, not that I like it but…………….Trump and Newsom (an interesting oxymoron) have said that shelter in place will not stop the virus, just slow it down and flatten the curve to allow for a better chance at not overwhelming the health care system.

    3. “Fuck Gavin Newsom.”

      With JFree’s dick

  27. “California, like the rest of the country, is scrambling to mitigate the spread of a once-in-a-century pandemic with the potential to kill a million or more people in the U.S. alone. In that context, even many libertarians are accepting government-imposed restrictions.

    “We are all walking negative externalities right now that the market just can’t fix,” said self-described libertarian financier Cliff Asness on Twitter, arguing for aggressive government intervention to stop COVID-19’s spread. “What we’re doing now is bad policy,” the Washington Post’s Meghan McArdle said of government-enforced social distancing measures. “It is also the best policy available, at least for the short term.”

    That individuals should be free to make their own choices using their own unique blend of qualitative preferences is about as essential to libertarian thought as anything can be, and those who are arguing that we should sacrifice our freedom to make choices for ourselves on the altar of the state–because the state knows what’s better for the people than individuals do for themselves–have exposed themselves as phony libertarians. These are the people who will sell our freedom–not just theirs but your freedom, too–off to the state in the name of security.

    Fuck every single one of them.

    Believing that we should all be free to make choices for ourselves–so long as there’s no danger of people not adversely impacting you in some way–doesn’t make you any different from the progressives or the worst impulses of the far right. People on the far right will be happy to let you hire illegal aliens–just as soon as you can prove that none of them will ever use any kind of public services. Progressives will be happy to let individuals own AR-15s–just as soon as you can prove that none of them will never be used in a mass shooting.

    If you think people should be free to work a job if they want to–but only so long as they can prove that they won’t contract a virus or pass it on to someone else–then you might as well be a progressive or a right wing nut. You’re not a libertarian. Fuck you for calling yourself one in the first place.

    As a libertarian, I’d rather risk another 9/11 than betray the principles of the Constitution as protected in the Fourth Amendment’s prohibitions against violating our privacy rights or the Fifth and Eighth Amendments’ prohibitions against self-incrimination and torture. As a libertarian, I’d rather suffer the awful effects of social media bias than violate the principles of the First Amendment. I’d rather risk more mass shootings than allow the government to “save us” by banning “assault weapons”–even if banning them really were an effective mans to prevent mass shootings! As a libertarian, I’d rather the state didn’t save us from intoxicated drivers by waging the drug war against cannabis, even if the drug war made it less likely that I’d be killed by an intoxicated driver.

    We should all be free to do as we please so long as we don’t violate someone’s rights. The formulation that says we should be free to do as we please so long as what we do doesn’t adversely impact anyone else is flat out wrong–because everything we do (or don’t do) adversely impacts someone in some way. If we weren’t free to do things that might negatively impact other people, we wouldn’t be free to do anything. And if you’re the kind of person who caves on those principles in a crisis, it doesn’t make you rational. It makes you weak.

  28. I WAS scheduled to be in San Diego this week. It is a relief not to be trapped there in the Pan-demon-ium.

  29. I’m going outside every single day. Anyone who wants to change that can go fuck themselves.

  30. Seems to me like we’re already getting this figured out, we just need to roll out the treatment – https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/03/20/wuhan-coronavirus-therapies-scientific-background/

  31. Are homeless people exempted or are they to ‘shelter in place’?

    1. Homeless always shelter in place, so they’re the most compliant population. That’s why we desperately need more of them. Really, they’re an example for all of us.

    2. It’s California, I expect the Homeless and illegal aliens are exempt from these laws as they are from every other law. I guess the Gay bath houses will remain open as well.

    3. Nope. We’re going to house them.

      See my earlier link.

      By the way, I’m old enough to know that “homeless” is the euphemism that got us into this situation. Fifty years ago they were called hobos, bums and winos. They were pretty much ignored and kept to themselves. The mentally ill were taken in for treatment and to protect them from themselves. Those remaining on the street lived away from the rest of society. When I was a kid, they lived under the railroad crossing in a field about a mile from my house. We weren’t allowed to go down there because of that. And, they never came into our neighborhood because they knew their fate if they did.

      Renaming them “homeless” and the progressively more exaggerated reports of how they are “just families like you and me who fell on hard times” didn’t help them at all. Then allowing them free reign among the rest of us, just brought angst and no solutions.

      Ignoring their obvious addictions and mental illness while providing sustenance so they could remain has hurt them more than anything else.

      This virus may be their undoing.

  32. Newsome is a retard and other jurisdictions better ignore this ‘martial law by other means’ bull shit. And exempting people only shows how retarded he is.

    I’m ok with how we’re handling it here in Quebec. They asked people to be prudent and left it at that.

    And that’s already too much.

    The answer is ‘No’.

    1. Yeah, I was actually impressed by Cuomo’s comment that the panic would be worse then the virus if New York followed California’s example. He seemed to get it.

      Does anyone remember what happened when the lights went out in NYC? Does anyone remember how fast looting and general dysphoria follows disasters? Oakland and SF after Loma Preita? New Orleans after Katrina? On and on and on.

      And, I’m certainly not a fan of Cuomo’s.

      1. He’s been blowing my mind to be frank. Reasonable.

  33. The “precautionary principle” in Newsome’s head:
    If I do nothing and tons of people die, I lose re-election.
    If I go overboard and it turns into a big nothingburger, I can say that I saved the planet.
    If I go overboard and tons of people still die, I can say that I did the best I could and I can blame Trump for letting the people of those pesky other 57 states travel into California.
    Plus, as an added benefit, if I overreact to this while the public stands by admirably, I have increased the power of the State! Why would I let a good crisis go to waste?!?!

    1. You nailed it. He can’t lose!

      There is no resistance here.

  34. “Gavin Newsom Orders 40 Million Californians To Stay Home During Coronavirus Crisis. Is He Right To Do It?”

    No he is not right to do it.

    If he was asking or suggesting that people stay home but not ordering people to stay home, businesses to close, etc. That is basically a silent / stealth martial law since people are accepting and not complaining loud enough about it.

    All that the government should be doing is giving out FACTUAL information and suggestions. Not their opinion. Not news media headlines.

    Recommend that elderly or those with underlying health issues already should isolate themselves for awhile. Tell people to stop raiding the goddamn grocery stores for toilet paper and tylenol in quantities that you can never use all of it. Reassure people that stores will continue to be stocked and to live more aware but don’t crawl in a hole and die….after raping the stores.

  35. Police walks up to you…
    *cough* Just going to get some meds. *cough*…
    Police briskly walks away from you.
    Police makes it home safely.

    1. Yeah, I had that thought too. In my experience, with many cops, frequently outside of their vocation, they are chicken shit panicked when something goes down. It is surprising but true.

  36. Very good idea and probably the only effective solution. But a complete waste of time if not concurrently national in scope and supported by strict border controls from now on. Liberals would NEVER support that so it’s DOA, and so are we all.

  37. Florida will have it worst. Tragedy of the commons. Libertarian beach partying kids (my freedom to paahty is all-important) will go home and kill their grandparents. On the way they will wipe sticky snotty hands all over the Uber driver’s car and transmit virus particles to many others who use the car. Then they’ll cough in the face of the person checking in baggage at the airport. The person who checks in the baggage will play with his baby in the morning and then hand the baby off to his mom to babysit. Poor mom.

    It’s statistics. Even if older people isolate themselves as best they can, when freedom lovers mash themselves together the risks of transmission rise.

    1. What do you mean Isolate as best they can? THEY Should be ISOLATING themselves completely! They are the ones who will get very sick and/or die. And yet, all I see out in public is the elderly.

  38. Well wel;, the Gabbing Nuisance is going hog wild, shutting everything down.

    EXCEPT the homeless, the one population that most closely resembles those of Wuhan, Italy’s refugee/assylee camps, France and Spain with their large unvetted “immigrant” populations, and Iran, where it is also going crazy. And once that virus takes a foothold in THAT population, we will see death rates that will make the situation in Wuhan City seem like picnic in the park. It will then spread rapidly all up and down the West Coast.. Vancouver BC to National City California, as these people tend to drift from one hole to another on a regular basis. We already haev typhus, hepatitis, cholera, rampant in these groups. Corona will make them easy pickings.

    1. Good. I am sick of all the damn homeless. Instead of helping them, Gavin should be handing out infected blankets. Maybe that will help the “housing crisis” too!

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  40. How could he possibly be right to do it? He has no right to keep millions of healthy people from earning a living. We can only hope that voters remember and put him out of a job, along with every other idiot fascist who issues orders like this.

  41. “Even in these extraordinary times, Newsom’s order is remarkable. Is it also prudent?”

    Well, it’s illegal and unconstitutional, so how about addressing that?

    https://californiaglobe.com/section-2/does-gov-newsom-have-the-power-to-shut-down-private-businesses-because-of-coronavirus/

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