Reason Roundup

Trump Brushes Off the Threat of Free ISIS Militants Because 'They're Going to be Escaping to Europe'

Plus: The Kurds "didn't help us in the Second World War" anyway, says the president. And more...

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The Turkish invasion of Syria is now well underway. Syria's North Press Agency reports that "ongoing clashes" between the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) and the Turkish military have been taking place around the Syrian-Iraqi-Turkish borders, creating a "large wave of displacement," and that "civilian houses were hit by Turkish shells," killing five and injuring 25 more.

The Turkish aggression has been dubbed "Operation Peace Spring."

Turkish airstrikes also hit a prison holding ISIS militants, according to the SDF, a group that has been among America's prime allies in the fight with ISIS. ("The group, which received arms and significant air and ground support from the US, lost some 11,000 fighters in the years-long war before recapturing the last piece of Isis territory in March," as The Independent explains.) The SDF runs the jails where more than 10,000 ISIS detainees are being detained.

Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan threatened European countries that Turkey would "open the gates and send 3.6 million refugees your way" if they labeled Turkey's actions an invasion.

People are already talking about a humanitarian crisis from all the displacement and fearing that freed ISIS fighters will wreak havoc in the region or flee elsewhere to cause harm.

Asked about that possibility yesterday, President Donald Trump suggested it was Europe's problem. "Well they're going to be escaping to Europe, that's where they want to go," Trump said. "They want to go back to their homes."

Trump justified abruptly leaving Kurdish Syrians to fend for themselves—just after negotiating deals that reduced their defenses against Turkey—by saying that the Kurds "didn't help us in the Second World War, they didn't help us with Normandy."

Trump has been congratulating himself for stopping America's "endless and ridiculous wars but, as Bonnie Kristian writes, Trump's actions fall far short:

This week's partial reshuffling inside Syria…doesn't end American intervention in Syria—U.S. boots will still be on the ground elsewhere in the country—or eliminate the possibility of stumbling into unwanted conflict with other actors in Syria's civil war, including regime forces, Iran, nuclear-armed Russia, and even our NATO ally, Turkey. (Though in a sense this move lessens the chance of war with Turkey, Trump paired it with a tweeted threat, also made Monday, to "totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey" if the country "does anything that I…consider to be off limits.")


QUICK HITS

  • A lot of U.S. adults are "unsure about a number of digital topics," the Pew Research Center finds:

  • A Fox News poll finds more than half of Americans support Trump impeachment:

  • What does the Constitution say about House impeachment proceedings? "Essentially nothing."
  • Louisville, Kentucky, police officer was sentenced to five years in prison for having what the Associated Press initially described as "unwanted sex" with five women. (A correction to the article notes that the wording was changed to sexual misconduct based on the officer's "admission that the sex was non-consensual.")
  • A massage parlor is shut down after a "human trafficking investigation" turns up…  some people giving massages without the right license.
  • On "the fragility of American citizenship."

 

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  1. The Turkish invasion of Syria is now well underway.

    Nobody’s business but the Turks’.

    1. Hello.

      Listening to people talk about the Kurds is the same level of astonishing hypocrisy on the level of the NBA and China.

      Everyone’s an asshole.

      Time to consider kicking Turkey out of NATO and other European alliances including UEFA. They constantly threaten Europe. The Greeks were right all along. Keep Turkey out of the EU.

      1. To add, it’s not like the U.S. hasn’t fucked countries and tribes before, right? Democrats left the S. Vietnamese to fend for themselves just to stick to Nixon. Next thing you know, the popular narrative became ‘America lost the war’.

        That was worse than what Trump is doing. The Kurds have been fighting on their own for decades and are used to American and Western government using them like a cheap Alyssa Milano bra.

        All they need is a constant flow of weapons and they take care of the rest.

        Trump is 1000% correct in his assessment. And that Reason is strangely going against him is perplexing beyond comprehension.

        Not. Your. Fight.

        Nothing can be gained there. Obama made such a bloody incoherent mess over there the only sane solution is to GET THE F OUT.

        Know what Reason? Instead of fishing out Tweets trying to make a dubious case for war, how’s about you take me in as an Intern. Sounds like you could use a lousy Canadian to come in kick some chairs, pound desks, rip some papers, throw coffee and all around mayhem to jolt you back into your god danged senses.

          1. /shakes bag of sliced bread violently.

            1. I forget which war – mighta been the Gulf War. When the Americans entered Iraq, the Kurds begged the U.S. to come in for the kill as promised. Instead, they pulled a U-Turn and pulled a ‘we change our mind’. I don’t seem to recall articles outraged about having screwed the Kurds that way back then. I do remember ME saying that was wrong.

              And while because it was wrong then doesn’t negate people being upset about it now, the main difference – I think – why people are acting up and feigning concern is not out of concern for the Kurds (especially progressives who can’t be helped at this point anymore because they’re illiberal, ignorant asshats – Hello Pop and Kerr!) but because ORANGE MAN BAD.

        1. Someone start a GoFundMe to get reason to hire rufus.

          1. I’d be in and out. Clean out the junk, rip up the cocktail party invitations, sell The Jacket, and save Lou Reed who I know is being held captive somewhere in their offices.

            1. The Jacket can’t be sold, it’s an emeritus.

            2. Seriously, if they can’t bother to stick to one of the basic tenets of libertarian thought of NON-INTERVENTIONISM (something I learned right here in these pages years and years ago) then maybe they should all look themselves in the mirror (like in Romper Room) and reconsider their principles.

              Really getting infuriating.

              1. I told my wife. Watch. You’re gonna go to work and people who you know know sweet fuck all about anything and never heard of a Kurd (probably asking ‘what the fuck is a Kurd? Is that something you put on a salad with croutons?) are gonna wax poetic and pretend and express concern for the Kurds. Whom they thought were sold next to the Sun Maid raisins in Aisle 6.

                Lo and behold that’s exactly what happened. What did it end with?

                Orange Man Bad.

                1. Finally, I will add. Our buddy – Rich – growing up was Kurdish. Brilliant math guy, hilarious and his nickname was Viper.

                  Ok. I’m done.

                  1. No. Not done. He’d tell us stories about war and the Kurds back in the 80s. 80s! And Trump is supposed to be the damn problem?

                    1. It’s over.
                      Call it.
                      Rufus wins this thread

                  2. Here is the other thing: We had like 70 people in this area. That’s it. Turkey told us they were coming, and we didn’t have a choice. We could have stopped it by putting thousands of troops there to defend, but that is about it.

                    So when Reason complains about Trump “deserting” the Kurds, they really mean Trump declined to send our troops BACK to Syria to support the Kurds- in the process possibly leading to a shooting war with TURKEY a historical US ally.

                    1. Turkey wasn’t going to come in and start shooting Americans. Pulling our troops back was clearly a precondition of the invasion.

                    2. Not just a historical U.S. ally…a current U.S. ally. We have an actual treaty with them. We have major military bases in their country. Getting into a fight with them causes problems for us with all of Europe.

                      Sorry to hear it for the Kurds, but the reality is that Trump’s right…they are not an important enough ally for us to fight a war with another NATO country. They’re just not. They worked well with us fighting ISIS, but they did that out of self-interest, not altruism, and we’ve done everything we’re obligated to do for them.

                2. I bet the Kurds kick the Turk’s ass. The Turkish Army thanks to Erdogan’s purges, is not what it used to be.

                  1. They can still cause plenty of problems with their air force and artillery. Unless the Kurds have been stockpiling MANPADs, Turkey can inflict heavy damage, the question is whether it can be sustained. As a NATO partner, they fly the same aircraft we do, and if Trump gets a wild hair and decides to cut off shipments of spare parts for “military atrocities” or whatever, they’d have to go begging to other NATO countries for replacements.

                    The Kurds have always been a light infantry force. The only reason they managed to push out ISIS is because we literally provided them all the air cover they needed.

                    1. No question the Turks can blow the shit out of things. But I am very skeptical they can conduct the kind of sustained anti insurgency campaign necessary to actually defeat the Kurds.

                    2. The Kurds and the Turks have been fighting for 100 years. I don’t expect that to end anytime in the next 100, either.

                  2. That’s not what happened in Afrin.

                    1. What’s a frin?

                3. You’re gonna go to work and people who you know know sweet fuck all about anything and never heard of a Kurd (probably asking ‘what the fuck is a Kurd? Is that something you put on a salad with croutons?) are gonna wax poetic and pretend and express concern for the Kurds

                  I guarantee every left-wing bobblehead on social media that’s crying about this, who isn’t already one of the Blue Checkmark Brigade and prostituting themselves for classified info leaks, got all they know about the situation there from listening to NPR a couple days ago.

                  I mean, seriously, I’m getting responses from these NPCs that indicate they think nothing has changed over there since 2016.

        2. Democrats left the S. Vietnamese to fend for themselves just to stick to NixonSouthern Democrats and conservatives invaded Vietnam and Northern Democrats and liberals tried to stop US soldiers from murdering 3rd world peasants.

          1. LOLno

          2. Fuck off, commie shitbag.

        3. Your best defense is “other presidents did it too.”

          The US got the YPG to destroy a bunch of it’s fortifications on the border with Turkey in exchange for US protection from Turkey. This is extremely short sided and frankly immoral and duplicitous. Our foreign policy will be forever hampered by this terrible example of US reliability and goodwill.

          https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/kurdish-forces-decry-pullout-syria-191007145220366.html
          In early August, the US military, which has pledged to protect the SDF from a Turkish attack, agreed to a “security mechanism” with Ankara, under which Kurdish forces would be pulled back from the Turkey-Syria border and a “safe zone” would be set up for the return of some of the 3.6 million refugees currently in Turkey.

          Following the agreement, the SDF destroyed YPG “fighting positions” in northeast Syria, before beginning to pull back from near the border.

          But Ankara, increasingly unnerved by the Kurdish presence near its border, has long accused Washington of taking “too long” to act on the security deal, and Erdogan announced earlier this week an imminent “air and ground” operation to clear the border region of “terrorists”.

          1. In which the Brockobot argues for American military hegemony.

      2. Turkey has always been playing the East against the West, threatening to go be friends with the one side if they’re not going to be paid to be friends with the other. As important as the Strait of Hormuz is, the Bosporus Strait is even more so and Turkey has what both Russia and the US covet.

    2. Maybe folks just liked it better that way.

    3. Nobody’s business but the Turks’.

      Indeed.

  2. So… reason is now pro military intervention.

    1. LOL at Greenpeace pimping American military intervention.

      This fuckin’ timeline, man, my sides can’t take it.

        1. Eh, never mind, it was just a photoshop.

      1. That’s another asshole group. What was once an organization to clean up the environment, it has since become a full retard eco-terrorist organization. Patrick Moore has voiced his opinion on this.

        Maybe they can hook up with the assholes running the NBA.

        1. Green Peace doesn’t have any issue fucking up world heritage sites, so I don’t give two shits what they think.

          Nazca Lines Ruined by Greenpeace

    2. Nah, just comically anti-Trump.

      They had far fewer qualms about Obama simply ignoring law and killing extra-judicially then they have of Trump being rude.

      1. I don’t follow it closely, but thought the military withdrawal was only 2 dozen troops? Does that make a difference in Force supremacy, or just that turkey wouldn’t dare open fire with a single US soldier in the area?

        1. turkey wouldn’t dare open fire with a single US soldier in the area?

          ^ This. No troops are leaving Syria. Only the area of Syria where Turkey is killing our former allies.

          1. Exactly. No troops are coming home, they are just making way for another slaughter of Kurds. Trump did not have to allow this. The man is a shit negotiator and spineless.

    3. reason is now pro military intervention

      Where do you get that? Other than that they said something critical of Trump, which no one should ever do?

      1. Apparently you missed the sudden concern over the (indefinite) US responsibility to the Kurds and today the sudden concern over the freeing of detainees in Syria.

        But they were critical of trump so I can understand your lack of awareness.

        1. And we should ignore the direct statement that we should pull all of our troops out of Syria and focus on your interpretation of the secret meanings behind their criticisms of Trump’s handling of the situation why?

          I mean besides that they criticized Trump, which no one should ever do?

          1. What other groups are you as concerned with other groups under attack? Or just the Kurds. I havent seen you advocate for intervention for ME Christian’s, Uhgers in China etc. Are you banging a Kurdish woman or something? Or are you only concerned about people who may be harmed because of a decision orange man made? The only inconsistent one here is you.

            1. What other groups are you as concerned with other groups under attack? Or just the Kurds.

              You’re not listening, not that I’m surprised.

              If you knew what you were talking about, you would realize that the SDF includes the Syriac Christians I assume you’re referring to, whether you know enough specific about the area to have known that that’s who you were referring to.

              The fact that the SDF represents a secular coalition of several ethnic and religious groups in an area where that’s a very fresh breath of air is the primary reason they’re not my first choice of people in the region to abandon.

              And if you haven’t seen me complain about China’s treatment of the Uyghers, you just must not pay much attention (not that I expect you to, but don’t make claims about what I do and don’t say if you’re not going to). I also don’t have any say about what China does, whereas I do have a say about my own country.

              And if you were to read the rest of my comments on this, you would realize that I’m not actually advocating that we leave troops in Syria to defend the SDF.

              But I realize how you missed all that, still shaking from someone having criticized Trump the way you are.

            2. Nice whatabouts. The US never promised to protect Uigers. The US did promise to protect the Kurds and SDF from Turkey. Trump could have just told Turkey “no”. But he caved.

              https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/kurdish-forces-decry-pullout-syria-191007145220366.html

              1. The Brockobot will be going to fight as an SDF merc any day now.

      2. You’ve become bad at this.

        1. Did I used to be good at it?

          1. No. No, you never were.

  3. Trump coming to minneapolis tonight. He should invite Omar’s ex- husband (Ahmed Hirsi, not her brother) to the stage with him tonight – that would be next level. Crossing my fingers and hoping it happens.

    1. He’s had some great troll moments, but that would be a Top 5 one, easy.

      1. I don’t think anything will top the reaction he got from Bill Clinton by bringing Juanita Broaddrick to that debate.

        But yes, he should absolutely bring Omar’s husband to the rally. The Somali community in Minneapolis likely has some thoughts about their supposed moral compass of a legislator deciding to go screw around with an infidel while dumping her Muslim husband (twice).

  4. “Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan threatened European countries that Turkey would “open the gates and send 3.6 million refugees your way””

    How is this a threat? Reason loves open immigration.

    1. I look forward to an article from Shikha congratulating Europe on this obvious victory with no consequences

    2. Yes but they have to be carefully vetted first by a supranational global governance organization to ensure that only the illiterate and destitute welfare cases and rapists are admitted to Western society.

      1. LOL

        People immigrating to Western countries are your betters. Who will replace you. Don’t you read Rev. Kirkland’s posts? Immigrants tend to be highly educated, affluent, and not at all superstitious.

        #OpenBorders

        1. And not at all misogynist, patriarchal, or violent.

          1. And don’t even get me started on their love of gays, transgender people and abortion.

    3. Reason spent all of 2015 assuring me that no terrorist would ever come as a refugee to Europe. So they should agree with Trump this is no concern right?

    4. Old and tired: No refugee has ever committed an act or violence and none ever will. Guantanamo is is a travesty and everyone there needs to be released. The US needs to stop being the world’s policemen.

      New hotness: Enemy combatants need to be locked up indefinitely, the US is responsible for ensuring the security of the world, and no war can ever be ended.

      I expect the merger of reason and vox to be complete before the year is out. Robby, Lizzie, and Petey are already adjuncts from there.

  5. What does the Constitution say about House impeachment proceedings?

    It’s traitorous?

  6. “Can correctly identify picture of Jack Dorsey”??? That’s a “digital topic” by the Pew Research Center? What the fuck?

    1. Can correctly identify his Big Band music, though.

    2. Never heard of him.

      1. Jack Dorsey is Tony Dorsey’s brother, but you might not be old enough to remember the Dallas Cowboys of the late ’70’s, early ’80’s.

        1. Are they the ones Debbie did?

        2. No, the Cowboy’s RB was Tony Dorsett.

          1. The Cowboys RB was Emmett Kelly, you’re thinking of some other clown.

  7. “A Fox News poll finds more than half of Americans support Trump impeachment”

    Excellent. My major prediction for 2019 is in the process of coming true.

    #Impeach
    #TrumpUkraine

  8. “A Fox News poll finds more than half of Americans support Trump impeachment:”

    Every one of these polls has depended on the survey makes. Fox, like the other > 50 polls, had a larger percentage of Democrats polled. Looking at underlying numbers is too much for Reason Analysis.

      1. there are Mike Pence fans?

        1. I’ve been a Pence fan since he first appeared in Jonny Quest.

      2. Or Donald Trump.

        Just because a lot of people think impeaching Trump would be a great idea it doesn’t follow that they think it would be great for the Democrats – the same way it’s also possible a majority of voters would like to see Kamala Harris as the Democratic nominee.

    1. Hilariously, Fox outsourced the poll to Beacon Research, which is a notoriously left-leaning firm. When the poll was released, not only where questions 13-36 permanently hidden (so we have no context of the framing of the poll), but the sampling was D+14, and barely polled any independents.

      Talk about gaslighting.

    2. The survey was weighted so that it contained 48% Democrats and 12% Independents. It is also of registered voters not likely voters. It is meaningless.

    1. He’s not pulling out of Syria. Just allowing our allies to get stabbed in the back.

      1. The Turks are getting stabbed in the back?

  9. “What does the Constitution say about House impeachment proceedings? “Essentially nothing.””

    It actually says The House, not the speaker of the House shall initiate impeachment. Just like it does for initiating legislation. Is reason willing to argue legislation doesn’t need to be voted on?

    1. If you actually want to learn about what the house has the right to do: https://www.lawfareblog.com/must-house-vote-authorize-impeachment-inquiry

  10. One of the prisons that ISIS detainees held in was struck by Turkish airstrike. Turkey is aiming to undermine all successful efforts and achievements that we gained during our fighting against #ISIS.

    Bombing and killing them is undermining efforts for getting rid of them? I’m not sure I follow.

    1. The prison issue is an interesting one because, really, the SDF are under no obligation to feed or house these guys. They could have lined them all up and put a bullet in their skulls, or turned them over to the Syrian government for trial, and no one would have said shit about it, because ISIS is classified as a terrorist group.

      1. It would be a shame if the US tried to help out the Kurds with some air support and then accidentally leveled the POW compound killing everyone in it. That would be a shame and would certainly warrant an investigation and some counseling of the pilots to tell them to be more careful

        1. Mass murder of prisoners. Libertarian.

          1. All of them should have been hanged on the spot when they were captured.

            1. Double down libertarian.

              1. Reason shows us that the new libertarianism is super woke. Ends always justify the means. John just took the lesson to heart.

              2. I believe John is clear that he is not a Libertarian.

                1. If only reason were so honest.

          2. Normally I would agree, but this is ISIS we’re talking about. Although a good question to ask is how many of these POWs are front line combatants and how many are support/rear echelon folks who might have only been supporting ISIS because the alternative is death. If the Kurds were trying to figure out who’s a terrorist and who wasn’t, that would make sense. Looking at historical precedents (Japanese in WW2 comes to mind), people who are fanatics and are willing to sacrifice themselves for the cause tend to have a hard time surrendering in the first place.

      2. Red Rocks….Honestly, I would not be bothered all that much if the Kurds adminstered ‘terminal justice’ to these ISIS assholes. I mean, to bastardize a phrase from American history: The only good ISIS asshole is a dead ISIS asshole.

        American bomb or Kurdish bullet….either is fine.

    2. If Europe is truly outraged, they can send the 30 troops to the border trump moved in land.

      1. But they need gas money from the US to get there.

        1. Petrol money, please, and that stuff ain’t cheap, it’s like 14 quatloos per fortnight in Europe.

          1. No, no, no, no. Fossil fuels are very bad. Euro troops can only move in solar or wind-powered vehicles.

            1. As long as they have a backup diesel.

            2. All of you guys crack me up. Touche. 🙂

    3. only bombed the front door.

  11. Louisville police officer was sentenced to five years in prison for having what the Associated Press initially described as “unwanted sex” with five women.

    “Intercourse was had. Due to a problem with paperwork, consent was not registered prior to the events. Initial investigations determined they were good shoots, but in an abundance of caution we are further investigating.”

    1. That used to be called rape. I wonder what changed.

      1. Came to comment along those lines. It’s astonishing the lengths some people will go to to avoid calling it what it is, which is rape.

      2. I prefer “surprise sex”.

    2. Short arms were discharged.

    3. There had been no prior rulings that non-consensual sex under these exact circumstances was prohibited.

  12. A massage parlor is shut down after a “human trafficking investigation” turns up… some people giving massages without the right license.

    If you don’t have the correct certifications you are being trafficked.

    1. “Waxing the carrot” is 48 of the 60 hour certification program.

  13. the Kurds “didn’t help us in the Second World War, they didn’t help us with Normandy.”

    Same goes for Afghanistan – let’s get the fuck out of there too.

    1. And Korea, and Japan… man Japan didn’t help at all in WW2…

      Getting out of countries that didn’t help in Normandy seems like a great idea to be honest.

  14. Hey look, Reason supports American funding and arming of Kurdish communist guerrillas. Still not over that whole Sandinista thing from the ’80s are you?

    1. Hey look, Reason supports American funding and arming of Kurdish communist guerrillas.

      How is it that they say “we should pull all of our troops out of Syria immediately” and you hear “we should fund and arm communist guerrillas?”

      1. But they don’t say immeditately. Instead they say it should be better planned.

        1. Instead they say it should be better planned.

          It should be. Weren’t you just getting on my case in another thread something-something re: Manichean dualisms?

          Wasn’t your point there that “it must be all or nothing” was an immature and unsophisticated approach?

          What changed between that thread and this one?

  15. “Trump has been congratulating himself for stopping America’s “endless and ridiculous wars but, as Bonnie Kristian writes, Trump’s actions fall far short”

    The difference between honest people and horseshit is the ability of honest people to give honest credit to people they don’t like and disagree with when it’s due, but all I see here is someone who appears to oppose Trump’s foreign policy because it’s Trump’s foreign policy.

    Yes, well, obviously, if Trump hasn’t done everything to rectify the last 18 years of bad idea troop deployments in one fell swoop, then he doesn’t deserve credit for being the most peaceful president since before Ronald Reagan–is that what we’re supposed to think?

    There are no American troop withdrawals without leaving a power vacuum behind, and anybody who wants to see how high this horseshit is stacking should measure the concern for the inability of our allies in Syria to fight on without us against similar criticism of Trump for trying to unwind our underfunded commitments to western European countries in NATO–who are perfectly capable of providing for their own defense.

    If we waited until there were no power vacuums before we withdrew troops from any given foreign adventure, we would never withdraw troops from any foreign adventure.

    Meanwhile, if it’s the best interests of the United States to withdraw, then that’s what Trump should do. If ENB cares more about the Kurds in Syria than she does about the interests of the United States, then maybe she should go to Syria. Donald Trump is the President of the United States, and that should mean that he puts the interests of the United States first. I see plenty of things to criticize Trump for from a libertarian perspective. Withdrawing American troops from a quagmire in Syria isn’t one of them.

    Where’s Justin Raimondo when we need him?

    1. Somebody should tell Ken that Tulpa’s been hacking his account and writing insane shit with his name attached to it.

      Did you even bother reading the article?

      Washington too easily commits our military to situations which have nothing to do with American security and where escalating our involvement would be wildly imprudent. This is dangerous for U.S. troops and costly for U.S. taxpayers, but it also has the reprehensible side effect of suggesting to groups like the Kurds that American help is coming when realistically it is not.

      Such empty suggestions can and, in Syria, probably will lead to death and destruction that could have been prevented without confusing signals from Washington. As in so much of recent U.S. foreign policy, the cardinal misstep here is not the reshuffling, clumsy and flawed though it may be, but the failure to fully withdraw already.

      So whether you criticize Trump for pulling back too much on Syria or criticize him for not pulling back enough, it’s an obvious case of Orange Man Bad? The only conclusion I can draw from that is that you think Trump’s response is exactly the perfect response.

      I happen to agree with the writer here – Trump has talked and talked and talked about getting the US out of these endless foreign military/CIA adventures we have no business being in, but for all his talk, he’s done absolutely fuck-all. Look, you can find a thousand reasons for why we should get out – but not just now – but it’s like ripping off a Band-Aid. Just rip the damn thing off and get it over with.

      Bizarrely, you seem to agree with the writer and yet are slagging her by claiming she’s saying just the opposite of what she said simply because she’s criticizing Dear Leader for not doing what both she and you agree he should be doing while at the same time claiming that he is doing exactly what he’s not in fact doing. That’s just some crazy shit, man.

      1. If Trump just pulled out The author would be calling him reckless. The fact that Trump is ending US involvement in this conflicts is more than just fuck all especially when you consider he is the only person in either party who seems to have any interest in doing it.

      2. So whether you criticize Trump for pulling back too much on Syria or criticize him for not pulling back enough, it’s an obvious case of Orange Man Bad? The only conclusion I can draw from that is that you think Trump’s response is exactly the perfect response.

        Yup, you nailed it. Every criticism of Trump is ORANGE MAN BAD TDS TDS TDS, even in cases where Trump objectively fucked it up. I mean, not even giving the Kurds advance notice about leaving? That’s fucked up man.

        It is the right call to withdraw, but it is the wrong call to bungle the withdrawal so badly that it leads to unnecessary suffering as a result.

        There are people who hate Trump just because he’s Trump, and the Trump bootlickers are correct to point that out, but then they go too far when they portray ANY criticism of Trump, even perfectly legitimate criticism, as just deranged objection to the Orange Man.

        1. Oh…do tell. How exactly does POTUS Trump: It is the right call to withdraw, but it is the wrong call to bungle the withdrawal so badly that it leads to unnecessary suffering as a result.….given that Turkey flatly stated they are invading?

          Really looking forward to your telling Readership how to withdraw from Syria and not have any unnecessary suffering….

          1. but it is the wrong call to bungle the withdrawal so badly

            That silly distortion alone makes me wonder why chemjeff bothers commenting.

          2. You could, oh I don’t know, give our allies some advance notice so that they can actually prepare. But Trump completely threw the Kurds under the bus. THAT is the shameful part.

            1. You could, oh I don’t know, give our allies some advance notice so that they can actually prepare.

              They’ve been pulling back north since March, mainly because the US is in a position where they’re have to appease both the Turks ( a NATO ally, in case you forgot) and the SDF–which is a literal no-win situation because these guys have been fighting for 100 years.

        2. Yup, you nailed it. Every criticism of Trump is ORANGE MAN BAD TDS TDS TDS

          What is the point of this chemjeff? It is not an argument, but the hyperbolic rantings of a child.

          Can you not refute him without lowering yourself to this kind of thing constantly? You do it so frequently that I am forced t conclude that you may actually be a child.

        3. “perfectly legitimate criticism”
          Chemjeff the warpig

          1. Yup there you go. Either you believe Trump made the 100% perfect decision, or you support endless war. There is no middle ground!

            1. You do realize there was an article posted on this site today at 7:00 am which complained that Trump didn’t unilaterally withdraw from the entire Middle East, right?

      3. “Such empty suggestions can and, in Syria, probably will lead to death and destruction that could have been prevented without confusing signals from Washington. As in so much of recent U.S. foreign policy, the cardinal misstep here is not the reshuffling, clumsy and flawed though it may be, but the failure to fully withdraw already.”

        The disclaimer isn’t the interesting part–not even when it’s present.

        There has not been a more troop commitment avoiding, try to limit the scope of our wars president than Donald Trump since before Reagan was in office. That he keeps trying to do these things over the objections of the press, the military, politicians in his own party, and his own staff is nothing short of impressive.

        Yes, I’d love to live in a libertarian utopia where the president orders his generals to withdraw to within our borders, and tells everyone from the press to his fellow Republicans to go fuck themselves if they don’t like it. In the real world, getting out of quagmires is hard (that’s why they call them quagmires)–even when you’re not in an election year. Trump is facing impeachment, a press that hates him already, intelligence services that are hostile to him already, and he was still pushing to leave Syria behind?! It’s almost as if he cares about the good of the country!

        Hillary Clinton and John McCain hated Trump in no small part because he promised to work with Putin during his campaign in 2016 to defeat ISIS in Syria–and that’s what he did. The reason Hillary and McCain were so dead set against that was because they were spoiling for a U.S. invasion of Syria so bad. If President Trump let Putin handle that, that would put off any American invasion of Syria indefinitely.

        They criticized Trump for not committing U.S. troops to Syria and largely relying on foreign fighters and the Russians to defeat ISIS instead.

        Now they criticize him for withdrawing what troops we have there, too?

        The criticism reeks of neoconservatism.

    2. There are no American troop withdrawals without leaving a power vacuum behind, and anybody who wants to see how high this horseshit is stacking should measure the concern for the inability of our allies in Syria to fight on without us against similar criticism of Trump for trying to unwind our underfunded commitments to western European countries in NATO–who are perfectly capable of providing for their own defense.

      Now do Yemen.

      1. There are no American troop withdrawals without leaving a power vacuum behind, and anybody who wants to see how high this horseshit is stacking should measure the concern for the inability of our allies in Yemen to fight on without us against similar criticism of Trump for trying to unwind our underfunded commitments to western European countries in NATO–who are perfectly capable of providing for their own defense.

        Pretty easy to do actually.

        1. So why are still arming the Saudis?

  16. More bad economic news.

    Charles Koch current net worth: $58.8 billion

    Unlike Drumpf, Mr. Koch didn’t inherit his fortune from his father. He started with nothing and earned every penny he has. Yet even this self-made economic wizard cannot figure out a way to prosper in the #DrumpfRecession. The tariffs and immigration restrictions have totally ruined the global economy.

  17. Trump paired it with a tweeted threat, also made Monday, to “totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey” if the country “does anything that I…consider to be off limits.”

    So grabbing women by the pussy and shooting random people on 5th Avenue are still on the table?

    1. Who doesn’t love a good pussy-grab (other than Garfield)?

  18. The progressive/ neo-con alliance is nearly complete. Just get Trump out of there so Mike Pence can apologize for gay bashing while he amps up the bombing of brown people and US imperialism.

    Thad Russell’s theory that neo-cons are leftists with an itch for global dominance makes more and more sense every day. If only that Trump asshole would stop pulling from wars and focusing on our economy rather than globalism they’d keep him around.

    1. It’s disgraceful.

      It’s just about Trump.

      How embarrassing for any “libertarian” whose hatred of Trump is so stoopid it objectively turns them into neocons?

      Now she’s objectively pro-quagmire?!

      Is there anything so stupid that her hatred of Trump won’t justify it?

      1. Now she’s objectively pro-quagmire?!

        How is “withdraw all troops from Syria immediately” “objectively pro-quagmire?!”

        1. How is “withdraw all troops from Syria immediately”

          How is making a claim that she said that anything but a lie?

          1. Read the article, including the links, and come back.

        2. “How is “withdraw all troops from Syria immediately” “objectively pro-quagmire?!”

          Not being able to see criticizing the president for trying to withdraw from Syria as objectively pro-quagmire seems kinda trollish, here.

          1. I think you’re misreading what they’re criticizing. They’re saying he’s not really withdrawing troops, and the haphazard manner in which this seems to have been done may well result in the escape of many terrorists from the bombed prison.

            You may not agree with that assessment, or even think it’s unfair to Trump, but I think it can hardly be characterized as “objectively pro-quagmire.”

    2. “Thad Russell’s theory that neo-cons are leftists with an itch for global dominance makes more and more sense every day.”

      There is no principle at work here.

      It’s all about hating Trump so much that she hates everything he does–because he’s the one doing it.

      1. If you want some real laughs, check out former “libertarian” lolcow Radley Balko, who’s assmad that we’re not acting as a meat shield for the Kurds against the Turks.

        1. Even better Balko was calling Trump a war monger when Trump went into Syria. But now Trump is betraying the world by leaving. Balko is just sad at this point. I hope the ass he is getting from his commie wife was worth it.

    3. That’s not a theory. It’s a fact. They started out as Troskyites, then shifted rightward under Leo Strauss without losing their desire to reshape the world to their liking, whether it be done through war or not.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism

      1. That is why they are open borders. They still retain the Marxist view that all human activities can be explained by economics and things like culture and traditions are just false consciousness. The difference is that instead of seeing people as atoms in the world proletariat like they did when they were Trotskyites, they see people as interchangeable units of labor who can be imported and exported with no second order effects.

        1. The biggest problem with the neocons is that they never learned from history. They were so emboldened by the success of Reagan’s adversarial approach to the Soviet Union in the 80s, that they thought such measures could be universally applied in all foreign policy efforts.

          They never got that history is supposed to provide you with insight that can help you make informed decisions on what to do in the present, not act as a “Back to the Future” road map where things needed to be executed in direct coorelation to whether they worked or not before. Just because something worked in the past, doesn’t necessarily mean it will work in the present if you do it the exact same way, or will work if you do it differently from a previous failed attempt.

          Ultimately, the neocons aren’t visionaries, they’re reactionaries whose political values are enslaved to past actions.

  19. “Asked about that possibility yesterday, President Donald Trump suggested it was Europe’s problem. “Well they’re going to be escaping to Europe, that’s where they want to go,” Trump said. “They want to go back to their homes.”

    There isn’t anything libertarian about the suggestion that American troops should be stationed in the middle of a Syrian quagmire until the region becomes peaceful enough for us to leave without leaving a power vacuum–because doing so is in the best interests of other countries–regardless of whether those foreigners are Kurds or Europeans.

    It’s hard enough to deal with questions about what’s in America’s best interests, and in that context, believing that the best interests of the Europeans should trump our is fucking retarded.

    1. According to reason the US military can’t defend US borders but is obligated to remain in Syria to defend Europe’s borders.

      This is their actual position. It is pathetic

      1. John, it just points out the complete breakdown in logic and reasoning at Reason. I am pretty surprised at the utter lack of logical consistency by Reason writers.

    2. Careful, Ken
      You’re expressing unglobalist ideas

      1. I support free trade because it’s in the best interests of America.

        I support entering into an open borders treaty with Mexico because it’s in the best interests of America.

        I opposed the Iraq War because it wasn’t in the best interests of America.

        It might be your idea of a globalist that needs revision. I’ve been saying the same things for the same reasons since long before anybody started calling people “globalists” for holding those ideas.

        If the other people who hold those ideas are doing so for some reason other than because they think it’s the interests of average, hard working Americans, then those might be globalists. I’m certainly no elitist. I’m more like a patriotic capitalist who’s trying to persuade his fellow Americans rather than trying inflict anything on them over their objections and against their will. I prefer to be called “libertarian”.

    3. There isn’t anything libertarian about the suggestion that American troops should be stationed in the middle of a Syrian quagmire until the region becomes peaceful enough for us to leave without leaving a power vacuum

      Good thing no one suggested that, then.

    4. Ken…Thank you. You are exactly correct = It’s hard enough to deal with questions about what’s in America’s best interests, and in that context, believing that the best interests of the Europeans should trump ours is fucking retarded.

      Syria is not a vital US interest. POTUS Trump is simply cleaning up the mess left behind by POTUS Obama, whose ME policy was incompetent, incoherent, and dangerously expensive.

      Brussels is filled with Euro-ingrates. Very well then, you may now deal with this problem because it is really not America’s problem. This is Europe’s backyard.

      Regardless of whether we ‘like’ Erdogan, they are an ally by treaty. Our relationship is with Turkey, not Erdogan. One day, Erdogan and POTUS Trump will be out of office. We will continue to have relations with Turkey in their absence.

  20. Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan threatened European countries that Turkey would “open the gates and send 3.6 million refugees your way” if they labeled Turkey’s actions an invasion.

    How is that any kind of threat? The addition of millions of Syrian refugees to Europe can only help grow their economy.

    1. Erdogan: “If you don’t watch out, I’ll send you all my wretched refuse!”
      Europe: “We need to determine Trump’s take on this before we form an opinion.”

    2. Just how many food trucks can Europe handle?

      1. Exactly as many as Brussels says they’re allowed to. Brussels will need to form a task force to fully investigate the question of forming a task force to fully investigate the question of food trucks, they’ll get back to you in about 6 years. Once the task force is formed, shouldn’t be more than about another 10 years to actually render a decision. But then the implementation phase of the food truck program begins, and that won’t move quite as quickly.

        1. But they are <b?ECO-FRIENDLY food trucks, so that makes it all good! Greta even said so…. (sarcasm) 🙂

  21. The courts determined that last year’s CA wild fires started with Pacific Gas and Electric’s power lines contacting trees in high winds, thereby providing those who lost there homes a scapegoat to sue.
    This ignores the role of the state in both mis-managing the forests and chasing the logging industry out of the state, and that of the folks who choose to build in fire-prone areas.
    So PG&E accepted the court ruling, is going through bankruptcy as a result, but has decided enough is enough: off with the power under those conditions.
    Oops! No it turns out that maybe 100% safety costs a bit more than folks really want to pay:
    “Tempers flare as millions in California endure power outages from PG&E ”
    […]
    “PLACERVILLE, Calif. —
    Classes were canceled. Frozen foods melted. Hospitals switched to emergency generators. Blooms withered in florists’ coolers. Unused food was jettisoned at shuttered restaurants. Lines formed at gas stations. Cellphones faded out.
    That’s what happened Wednesday when the state’s largest utility shut off power to millions of Californians in a drastic attempt to avoid the killer wildfires that have charred hundreds of thousands of acres, caused billions of dollars in damage and spurred cries for widespread change in how electricity is delivered over the state’s aging grid…”
    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-10-10/millions-without-power-pge-blackouts-california

    1. 100% safety costs a bit more than folks really want to pay

      Not to mention the future headline: “Massive Wildfires Due To Misuse of Generators”

      1. It’s an odd-on bet that someone will be asphyxiated running one indoors.

      2. Nice to see the wealthy and corporations don’t have to deal with the issues of the hoi polloi.

        That’s progress.

    2. I hope it stays windy for months.

      1. Well, they could then install windmill generators. Or not, since, NIMBY.

    3. According to Vox, it’s Climate Change.

      For extra bonus chuckles, click the hyperlink on the phrase “extremely hot summer,” which links to a Sac Bee article headlined “Think this Northern California heat wave is bad? It’s nowhere near the record,” which goes on to show how it was an unusually mild summer.

      1. I saw that article and literally face palmed. They might as well have cited the boogeyman as being behind it.

        1. They cited everything they could think of other than the actual causes, which are well known (poor maintenance of transformers and switching stations).

    4. Didn’t PG&E get hit with an $11 billion settlement for the wildfires last year?? It’s almost like in an extremely litigious society, people start to preemptively protect themselves from their litigious neighbors by doing stuff like this.

      Smart move, PG&E, fuck California.

      1. PG&E has no agency. It’s a zombie company being dragged around by the Public Utilities Commission. In any even semi-market-oriented environment PG&E would have been replaced decades ago.

        1. Yeah I’m not a huge fan of the various PSCs, but let’s be honest, even in states without PSCs these networks are all monopolies for good reason.

          Free market competition with these companies building over each other results in consumers getting screwed. It’s one of the few areas with identifiable market failures.

          1. Free market competition with these companies building over each other results in consumers getting screwed.

            I don’t disagree. I’m not sure a free market has ever really existed for power companies, but it’s also an arena where it’s hard to imagine a totally-free market functioning terribly well. The most effective utilities I’ve worked with are municipally owned and local.

            PG&E, as a regional provider, is the worst of both worlds. It’s both tightly leashed by the PUC and beholden to investors. It has quasi-sovereign immunity but is not accountable to voters.

            The trouble is you can shriek both “over-regulation!” and “corporate greed!” and they’re both pretty equally accurate, so politically it goes nowhere.

            1. Good to see you’re back Square, hopefully the power outages haven’t been too bad for you.

              1. Thanks – I’ve been happy to see you coming back around, too. Power is still out at home, but not at work. Come tomorrow, I may have to ask the athletics director if I can borrow a shower . . .


                1. Come tomorrow, I may have to ask the athletics director if I can borrow a shower . . .

                  Time to break out the water socks if those showers are like the one’s from back in the day. Good luck!

  22. Trump seems to be on course to ending the American Empire. What’s next? Leave NATO? Withdraw troops from South Korea?

    His decision not to retaliate against Iran for the missile attack on our great ally, Saudi Arabia, was important but passed through the news cycle like a McDonald’s hamburger through my otherwise sturdy gut.

    This has nothing to with the Kurds specifically. There are countless foreign problems the American Empire could engage itself in. Trump is not sold on the “Invade the world, invite the world” policy that has dominated for decades.

    1. No he is not. But somehow the people who are keep telling me that it is Trump who is the irresponsible war monger

      1. Only a total nazi would bring troops home.

      2. Trump is whatever enemy they need on that particular day.

      3. “No he is not.” Sorry, John, I am not sure what you are rebutting?

        1. Nothing. I was agreeing with you. You are correct that Trump is not interested in the US playing world policeman. Sorry that wasn’t clear

          1. You are correct that Trump is not interested in the US playing world policeman.

            https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/us/politics/trump-veto-yemen.html

            President Trump vetoed a bipartisan resolution on Tuesday that would have forced an end to American military involvement in Saudi Arabia’s civil war in Yemen, rejecting an appeal by lawmakers to his own deeply rooted instincts to withdraw the United States from bloody foreign conflicts.

            The veto, only the second time Mr. Trump has used his power to block legislation passed by both houses of Congress, strikes down a resolution that invoked the War Powers Act to distance the United States from a four-year conflict that has killed thousands of civilians and resulted in a widespread famine.

            1. Selling arms is literally the opposite of playing policeman, you dishonest fuck.

              1. It’s playing mercenary instead. So much better!

          2. You are correct that Trump is not interested in the US playing world policeman.

            https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-poland-us-military-duda-base-fort-trump-rose-garden-a8956301.html

            At at meeting at the White House with Mr Duda on Wednesday, at which the US and Poland signed a defence cooperation declaration and agreed the sale of 30 fighter jets, Mr Trump said it was possible the US would send additional troops, possibly shifting some from Germany. He was also asked about a US base.

            “We haven’t totally made up the decision,” he said. “We haven’t finalised anything. But the facility itself would be world class.”

          3. You are correct that Trump is not interested in the US playing world policeman.

            https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-08-19/trump-plans-to-ship-a-fleet-off-16s-to-taiwan-and-china-isnt-happy-about-it

            When President Trump agreed to Taiwan’s request to buy a fleet of American-made F-16 fighter jets, it marked the largest arms sale in 20 years for the island. But Taiwan now risks a backlash from China, a vastly stronger military power that is determined to one day bring Taiwan back under its flag.
            The $8-billion sale, which Trump’s predecessors had resisted for fear of angering Beijing, is just one bullet point showing that U.S.-Taiwan relations have moved closer under Trump. Both sides find it easier, at the moment, to resist China than to engage it.

            1. ::quotes a statement about the US playing world policeman::
              ::cites an article talking about an arms sale where no US troops are present and the jets would be flown by the native Air Force::

              1. But…that’s different. Because…reasons.

                If an ally wants to buy the weapons and not involve our troops in the fight, so be it. It’s not like Yemen is this amazingly great country.

                The only worthwhile country in that entire region is the one the Left deeply, deeply hates.

              2. I literally laughed at the idiotic syllogism he attempted. .

              3. Gee, maybe the US shouldn’t be getting involved AT ALL.

                “Oh, I’m totally antiwar. But I’m more than happy to sell them the guns with which to kill themselves!” is not exactly a moral position. Otherwise, why the fuck are you antiwar in the first place?

                1. “Oh, I’m totally antiwar. But I’m more than happy to sell them the guns with which to kill themselves!” is not exactly a moral position.

                  Don’t get so buttblasted just because the article didn’t support your position. What police agency sells weapons to the communities they protect?

        2. I believe John is agreeing with you, if I’m not mistaken.

    2. “‘Trump seems to be on course to ending the American Empire.””

      How do you expect to move money from defense to healthcare without doing so?

      I always see liberals arguing to spend defense money on domestic issues. How can you do that without reducing the US commitment to being the world police?

      1. Vic…..please stop it with the common sense and logic! 🙂

  23. Just think…with the most relentlessly negative press coverage in memory, Trump has similar approval ratings to Obama, who had the most fawning coverage in memory.

    1. So you’re saying approval ratings are a form of affirmative action?

  24. the Kurds “didn’t help us in the Second World War, they didn’t help us with Normandy.”

    A great example of how a factual statement can be so irrelevant that it borders on stupid.

    1. They didn’t help us in 1812, either.

    2. Actually, it’s a pretty simple point the President was making…what, exactly, have the Kurds done for us that merits some kind of undying devotion? They didn’t save Western civilization. They weren’t our allies during our biggest conflicts. They didn’t help us defeat our biggest enemies.

      They basically helped us defeat a regional threat because that regional threat was trying to destroy them. They backed us against Saddam Hussein because they wanted to seize the northern portion of Iraq. Their alliance with us is entirely self-interest, and they don’t do enough for us that we need to fight a war with another NATO country for them. They’ve also gotten plenty out of the arrangement, so we don’t owe them anything.

      I thought the point was pretty simple to grasp.

  25. I’m for bringing our troops home and getting out of these endless wars but this Drumpf move can only be compared to a bad plumbing job! Am I glad the plumber I hired was able to stop my leaking water pipe? Yes. Was it right that he used duct tape and not the approved pipe dope and sealant and a new piece of pipe? Hell NO!
    Orange Man bad!

    1. Did the plumber put a piece of duct tape on the cat’s paw? That’s always funny, watching a cat trying to get a piece of tape off its paw.

      On the other hand, Trump hasn’t actually brought the troops home.

  26. Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan threatened European countries that Turkey would “open the gates and send 3.6 million refugees your way” if they labeled Turkey’s actions an invasion.

    And why would this be a problem? Explain carefully, show your work.

  27. >>>The Turkish invasion of Syria is now well underway

    young hearts be free tonight?

  28. “Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan threatened European countries that Turkey would “open the gates and send 3.6 million refugees your way” if they labeled Turkey’s actions an invasion.”

    Jeremy Corbyn gets a hard on. Immediately tweets Turkey’s action an invasion over and over.

  29. Reason: Trump’s withdrawal of US troops doesn’t go far enough!

    Also Reason: Trump’s withdrawal of U.S. troops is endangering everyone and going to set ISIS free!

  30. Me: It’s great to see Trump withdrawing forces from foreign combat zones that we had no business being in in the first place…

    Reason commenters: ALL HAIL THE GREAT ANTIWAR PRESIDENT TRUMP!

    Me: …but perhaps he could have handled it a little bit better, and he could also think about withdrawing forces and support from other foreign wars that we have no business being in…

    Reason commenters: STOP HATING ON TRUMP! YOU JUST HATE THE ORANGE MAN! TDS TDS TDS!

    1. George McGovern wanted to intervene in Cambodia as the Khmer Rouge took over. But he lost the election. If there was ever a moral cause for which the American Empire could have helped, that was it.

      Weary of the Viet Nam fiasco, the American electorate chose Nixon, who made the first, and unsuccessful attempt, to reign in the American Empire.

      1. ” If there was ever a moral cause for which the American Empire could have helped, that was it.”

        The American Empire did help. The wrong side. The KR would never have come to power without American intervention, and once they did come to power it was Reagan who insisted that the KR keep its seat at the UN and all the trappings of international recognition after Hun Sen rudely invaded and took the capital.

    2. “It’s great to see Trump withdrawing forces from foreign combat zones”

      Have any of these troops actually returned to the USA? How many? Isn’t this just more bullshit from Trump who has promised troop withdrawals from other places at other times? But not delivered?

      1. A) We get it, you hate Trump.

        B) Trump is doing the best he can but everybody else won’t let Trump do what he wants.

        C) At least Trump is talking about it, which is more than anybody else is doing.

        D) I suppose you think Hillary would have done better?

        E) You’re just too stupid to understand 7D Wizard Chess and the careful trap Trump is laying for his enemies.

        F) Have you seen the latest job numbers?

        Save this handy guide, it will answer all your questions. The nice thing about it is that you can pick any or all of the answers and it will still be the correct answer.

        1. I’m saving this one. It’s so perfect.

    3. The better way to look at this is that Turkey offered Trump a choice. 1) Pull the troops back as Turkish troops streamed in.
      2) Put enough troops into the area to stop Turkey.

      There is no better alternative. That is what Turkey offered, and the choice he took is probably the best of them.

      1. Yup. And this conflict has been in the offing ever since Saddam Hussein’s government fell. The Kurds and the Turks have a long and violent history, with plenty of blood spilled by both sides. The only reason the Turks didn’t go in earlier was we were there fucking around. They realize this President isn’t interested in nation-building or fighting a war over a minor, temporary ally, so they’re taking the opportunity to deal with a longstanding problem on their own.

        I’m sure it will be ugly and brutal, but it’s their problem now and not ours. At least it won’t be American troops stuck in the middle of it.

    4. chem….I challenged you to tell Readership how exactly “to withdraw from Syria and not have any unnecessary suffering….”

      I mean, that was your quote. That is not ‘hating on anyone’; that is challenging you to explain yourself. If you don’t have a clue on how to withdraw from Syria and not have any unnecessary suffering, then just say so.

    5. You : WHY WON’T THE REASON COMMENT SECTION LIKE MEEEEEEEE!!!

      The entire world : yeah it’s a mystery…

  31. If Trump were to stop coddling the Saudis and Israelis, his decision regarding the Kurds would still be immoral but might have some principled foundation.

    Clingers are demonstrating themselves to be comprehensively lousy people. This makes their replacement welcome.

    1. You are boring, and an asshole.

      1. So long as you keep complying with my preferences (because you got stomped in the culture war), you get to rant and whine as much as you wish, clinger.

        Your obsequious compliance is appreciated.

        1. You and your family getting the full Kent State is equally appreciated.

  32. Nothing about the press defending Elizabeth Warren’s demonstrable lie about being fired due to being pregnant by arguing, en masse, that because some women experienced it, it means Warren did too? I mean, you take joy in Trump’s lies but seem to be OK with Warren’s lies. And the press will COVER for her, which certainly means another media vacation if she wins the election.

    Guess we know who ENB is voting for.

  33. Orange Man Bad.
    Militaristic adventurism good.
    Got it.

  34. Quote: “Trump Brushes Off the Threat of Free ISIS Militants Because ‘They’re Going to be Escaping to Europe'”

    Why would that be a problem? According to Reason.com, there is no danger from open borders!

    1. To be fair, it’s mostly the US’ open borders that aren’t a problem. And that’s at least half-true, although Canada might want to rethink it at some point.

  35. The Kurds had plenty of time to work something out with Assad, but they were more interested in free American shit while the getting was good. Maybe there’s a reason why they’ve proven historically incapable of establishing their own state?

    1. The bigger problem with establishing their own state is that they see their state as including large portions of territory currently possessed by other countries who weren’t interested in giving away oil-rich land for free.

      The Kurds would probably have made out just fine if they’d been willing to stay in northern Iraq and not push to expand their holdings into Turkey, Syria, and Iran. But they weren’t, so finally one of those countries did something about it.

  36. The middle east has been in a state pf constant war for 4000 years. There’s no reason we need to be participants in those wars. If the Europeans are aghast then let them send their own troops there to sort it out.

    1. The middle east has been in a state pf constant war for 4000 years.

      This is not true.

      1. Pretty close, though.

  37. We should get out— although my sympathies are certainly with the Kurds. We shouldn’t underestimate the power of a people’s war against a hated hegemon. Just look at what the Vietnamese did to the US Army.

    1. Please don’t send my family to the Gulag and then liquidate them.

  38. “Trump Brushes Off the Threat of Free ISIS Militants Because ‘They’re Going to be Escaping to Europe’.”

    Trump should let ISIS members go to Europe.
    Europe is really nice this time of year, and besides, these ISIS members need a good long vacation from all the murdering, raping and robbing they’ve been engaging in while in the Middle East. Plus it would be an excellent time for a cultural exchange program for both sides.
    Nothing but good would result.

  39. Trump Brushes Off the Threat of Free ISIS Militants Because ‘They’re Going to be Escaping to Europe’

    So you’re saying they are not a threat to the US. That’s really all that matters for US foreign policy.

    (Unfortunately, they may well be a threat to the US, coming in via the Mexico-US border.)

  40. This #LibertarianMoment brought to you by Orange Man and the Deplorables who supported him, over the hysterical pants shitting opposition of @Reason.

    It’s fun watching Reason writers trot out a newfound #NeoClown love for #ForeverWar to doggedly cling to their Orange Man Bad narrative.

    And they seem strangely reticent about ISIS fighters migrating to Europe too.

    Sounds racist to me! Keeping them brown folks out of Europe!
    #OpenBordersUberAlles

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  42. >Kurds weren’t on the Allies side in WW2…
    FUKKIN BASED! Why the fuck did Trump abandon them?

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