Impeachment

Trump's Ukraine Call Was an Abuse of Power—and This Time, He Can't Claim Ignorance or Inexperience

The whistleblower report alleges an attempted cover-up.

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One method occasionally used to excuse or explain President Donald Trump's behavior is an appeal to the president's lack of formal political experience. After fired FBI chief James Comey testified back in 2017, for example, Paul Ryan, who was at the time the speaker of the House, said Trump is "new at this" and "not steeped in the ongoing protocols." 

It is no doubt true that Trump's background and temperament mean that he lacks a detailed understanding of the rules and protocols that govern the office he holds. Many of his actions can be viewed in that light. But in the case of Trump's July call to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, details of which have sparked a formal impeachment inquiry in the House, Trump and his defenders can't reasonably claim he didn't know that what he was doing would look bad.   

First, the call, in which the president repeatedly pressed Zelenskiy to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter, came after nearly two years of investigation into allegations of Russian collusion during the 2016 campaign. The key question in that investigation was whether Trump worked with a foreign country in order to swing the election. If nothing else, Trump should have learned that attempting to work with a foreign nation in a way that could advance his own political fortunes would be problematic. 

Yet that is exactly what the whistleblower complaint about the Ukraine call says that Trump did. 

The complaint opens by alleging that the still-anonymous author, who worked in the U.S. intelligence community, has received "information from multiple U.S. Government officials that the President of the United States is using the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country in the 2020 election." The report goes on to describe not only how Trump pressured Ukraine to investigate Biden, but how "multiple White House officials with direct knowledge of the call" were concerned that Trump used most of the call to "advance his personal interests."

The president reportedly requested that Zelenskiy pursue the Biden investigation with the help of Trump's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani. According to the report, the White House officials who heard the call and relayed this information were "deeply disturbed by what transpired" and discussed what to do about the likelihood that "they had witnessed the President abuse his office for personal gain." 

One might reasonably argue that this is all secondhand and anonymous and that it should be corroborated by those unnamed officials. But it also conforms to much of what we already know from other sources. A reconstruction of the phone call released by the White House this week confirms that Trump pressed the Biden issue during the conversation, following a request by Zelenskiy for Javelin missiles, implying an understood quid pro quo deal.  

And there should be no doubt that that Giuliani was pursuing a politically motivated investigation in Ukraine, because Giuliani has repeatedly admitted this himself

In May, for example, Giuliani denied that his actions were illegal but said this about his Ukraine dealings: "Somebody could say it's improper. And this isn't foreign policy—I'm asking them to do an investigation that they're doing already and that other people are telling them to stop. And I'm going to give them reasons why they shouldn't stop it because that information will be very, very helpful to my client, and may turn out to be helpful to my government." 

This quote establishes that Giuliani—who, again, is not a government official, and thus not conducting ordinary diplomacy—was pursuing an investigation in Ukraine for the president's personal benefit ("that information will be very, very helpful to my client"). 

It also offers another reason why Trump can't claim innocence through inexperience: Even then, Giuliani, who was working closely on the Ukraine matter for Trump, understood that what he was doing could be viewed as improper. If the president's lawyer and pointman on a project knows it's shady, the president should too. 

If the whistleblower's report is accurate, there is good reason to believe that loyalists within the Trump White House also understood that Trump's behavior on the July call was improper, because they tried to shield it from scrutiny.

According to the report, White House officials were "'directed' by White House lawyers to remove the electronic transcript from the computer system in which such transcripts are typically stored" for sharing and other use within the administration. Instead, the records were to be stored in a more secretive and compartmentalized system designed for classified information. One White House official, the report says, described this as an "abuse" of the more secretive system, because the Ukraine call records did not belong there.  

The clear implication is that the call records were understood to be damaging, and thus were hidden from scrutiny. (Trump also personally ordered the delay of nearly $400 million in aid to Ukraine in advance of the call, possibly in violation of the constitutional separation of powers, and refused to provide an explanation.) 

Essentially, the report describes a cover-up. And you don't cover up records of activity unless you understand that activity was wrong. 

The whistleblower's account remains anonymous and uncorroborated. We need more firsthand, on-the-record information. But if the document is accurate, it strongly suggests that Trump knew that what he was doing was wrong and didn't want others to find out. 

Finally, even if ignorance ends up being part of Trump's explanation, it's damning in a different way. An ignorance defense at this juncture would amount to an admission that the best case for Trump is that after more than two years as president, he still has no idea what he's doing. 

NEXT: 11 Cases Everyone Should Know from the Warren Court

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  1. Even as someone who really dislikes Trump, supports open immigration, etc….isn’t there anything else to write about?

    1. #TrumpUkraine is now tied with #TrumpRussia as the biggest scandal in world history. Nonstop coverage is absolutely necessary. Reason should only interrupt it for occasional reminders of how Drumpf’s tariffs are keeping Charles Koch’s net worth below $60 billion.

      1. They’re going to impeach your God Emperor and there’s nothing you can do about it. The voters in 2018 made their choice because they were sick of arrogant conservatives telling them how to think. The fact that Dear Leader must now bear this burden is your fault, Trumpian.

        1. Good! I was calling for impeachment before Putin’s Puppet even took office. As a Hillary Clinton voter I knew there was no way she could have lost that election legitimately.

          1. I am just gonna squeeze my comment in after a troll.

            I am voting for Trump in 2020 so he can have more Lefties (like Hunter and Joe Biden) investigated, indicted, and prosecuted for crimes they commit inside the USA and in other nations.

            1. TO THE RETARDED SACK OF SHIT WRITING THIS:
              IT’S NOT ABUSE, IT’S SIMPLY USE OF POWER

        2. You can’t even get proceedimgs started lololol

          1. They don’t want to start formal proceedings, they just want to whine “ORANGE MAN BAD” in official-looking settings.

            1. Not sure about that. They are starting to give off a very Travis Bickle vibe.

            2. “…they just want to whine “ORANGE MAN BAD” in official-looking settings.”

              Orange Man bad?!? He BAD, all right! He SOOO BAD, He be GOOD! He be GREAT! He Make America Great Again!

              We KNOW He can Make America Great Again, because, as a bad-ass businessman, He Made Himself and His Family Great Again! He Pussy Grabber in Chief!
              http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/donald-trump-scandals/474726/

              “The Many Scandals of Donald Trump: A Cheat Sheet”
              He pussy-grab His creditors in 7 bankruptcies, His illegal sub-human workers ripped off of pay on His building projects, and His “students” in His fake Get-Rich-like-Me reality schools, and so on. So, He has a GREAT record of ripping others off! So SURELY He can rip off other nations, other ethnic groups, etc., in trade wars and border wars, for the benefit of ALL of us!!!
              All Hail to THE Pussy Grabber in Chief!!!

              Most of all, HAIL the Chief, for having revoked karma! What comes around, will no longer go around!!! The Donald has figured out that all of the un-Americans are SOOO stupid, that we can pussy-grab them all day, every day, and they will NEVER think of pussy-grabbing us right back!

              1. Glad President Trump causes you so much angst! This is a nothing burger and you libs will be greatly disappointed in November 2020. Trump requested help looking into fraud of Hunter Biden company

                1. I predict popcorn companies having record sales November 2020.

              2. You’re just upset he didn’t grab your pussy, bitch.

      2. Oh, to heck with tallying the Koch fortune. Better Reason document how Trump’s tariffs wiped out every bit of gain the middle class & upper lower class received from DJT’s budget-deficit-exploding tax cuts. The gains were minuscule to begin with, since Trump doesn’t have the slightest interest in helping the middle class.

        Except in talk, mind you. Trump does that as well as the most greasy carnival barker – and you know there’s a sucker born every minute…..

        1. Believe me, I know all about how the #DrumpfRecession has affected ordinary working people. As AOC has explained, the only reason the unemployment rate is low is because people need 2 or 3 jobs to barely scrape by.

          It’s just that Koch / Reason libertarianism is fundamentally about making the richest 10 or so people on the planet even richer. So I tend to focus on that.

          1. You are so open minded your brain fell out of your head. The number of jobs a person works has nothing to do with the employment rate. You and AOC need an education

            1. Carlos, OBL is a big fat joker. It is not serious.

          2. There is no recession. It’s all fake news. I wish Democrats would go away.

        2. grb
          September.26.2019 at 12:23 pm
          “Oh, to heck with tallying the Koch fortune. Better Reason document how Trump’s tariffs wiped out every bit of gain the middle class & upper lower class received from DJT’s budget-deficit-exploding tax cuts. The gains were minuscule to begin with, since Trump doesn’t have the slightest interest in helping the middle class….”

          This pile of lefty shit reminds me of the gossip; oops, ‘whistle blower’, spouting made up stuff, hoping to find some as abysmally stupid as s/he is to believe it.

          1. Remember, half the population is below median intelligence.

            1. Except the whistleblower is multiple sigma below that if they think a complaint assembled a la chinese whispers from multiple disparate sources is a legitimate cause for alarm.

              1. Yes, Chinese, thank you!

            2. Ironic comment of the day award goes to…

          2. Trump’s Tariff is going to get Apple to manufacture here instead of in China. Hmmm

        3. Tax cuts don’t cause deficits you fucking idiot. Increased spending does.

      3. Tariffs hurt everyone except for very specific industries, at a cost to higher prices and jobs in other industries.

        1. Tariffs are a form of taxation, taxes always hurts someone.

        2. Show us the signal in the inflation data. You know the one where inflation went down last quarter.

      4. Not a Trump fan, but he will never be impeached. To even go forward with impeachment proceedings, you need a 2/3rds majority vote in the Senate and the Republicans currently have the Senate majority… this is another nothingburger that will lead to nothing.

        Instead of talking about criminal justice reform (why people are getting life sentences for non-violent drug crimes), reducing skyrocketing Rx drug costs, fixing our crippling infrastructure within the US and immigration reform, the Democrats are just wasting time (and tax payer money) on useless investigations.

        When Obama used the IRS to target political opponents no one on the left batted an eyelash, but when Trump “allegedly” does the same thing all hell breaks lose. I am 32 years and in my life time neither the Republicans or the Democrats have supported my best interests… change my mind.

        1. Actually, I hope they do impeach him so, when he is found not guilty in the Senate, the Democrats will lose BIG in 2020.

          And you’re right about everything else.

      5. America is officially projected to be minority white in 2 decades. If you’re a white Liberal, then you believe that it’s OK to blame you for what other white people did centuries ago & that it doesn’t matter that all races did those horrible things throughout history. You also don’t mind laws where it’s OK to hire someone over you because you’re white & they’re not. You don’t question what CNN, the New York Times etc. say & don’t know that their billionaire owners make money from paying less to illegals & give their employees rules never to say anything positive about Republicans, avoid publicizing crimes if they’re done by non-whites & admitting that 100+ countries (all with non-white majorities) have laws against diversity to keep their countries & not become minorities in them.

      6. Then what can you say about Joe Biden bragging of having threatened the Ukrainian govt. to make them fire a prosecutor who was investigating his son? The video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA–dj2-CY

      7. The only scandal is that TDS is so strong that rather than seeing that the Democrats are criminals in every way and that the real Ukrainian scandal is Biden and Obama. You have someone who can’t stand Trump defending him against stupid people.

    2. If they repeat the lie often enough, it becomes truth. Ergo, 24-7 mental gymnastics. Not you have to tack on “for political gain” after each sentence to make it work.

      1. Pretty much. There doesn’t seem to be much there.

    3. isn’t there anything else to write about?

      Nothing as massive as Trump’s impeachable actions, now proven.

      1. The house won’t even put it too a vote. Pelosi is using this as a fund raiser and that is all

      2. The Whistleblower report turned out to be nothing. According to the anonymous whistleblower, “I was not a direct witness to most of these events described,” but instead based the complaint on “various facts” he or she was informed of by “more than half a dozen officials.” The whistleblower claims to have learned from “multiple U.S. officials” that “senior White House officials had intervened to ‘lock down’ all records of the phone call.”
        So the whole whistleblower report is made-up by the “whistleblowers” own admission.

        Now Adam Schiff (D-CA) admits he made up his own transcript of the call between Trump and the Ukrainian President: “’My summary of the president’s call was meant to be at least part in parody,’ Schiff tried to clarify.”
        Members of Adam Schiff’s own Committee are turning on him for fabricating quotes from the President during this hearing.
        “Is he just making this up?” Rep. Turner asks, calling out Adam Schiff for just making up “fiction” conversation.

        Meanwhile, Christopher Miller said: “Setting record straight: @Leshchenkos confirmed to me what those of us in Kyiv already knew—he is NOT currently an advisor to Ukraine’s Zelenskiy & wasn’t at time of July 25 call. He said he DID NOT tell ABC insistence for leaders to discuss Biden probe was precondition for call.”

        There’s no doubt in my mind that (lying fuck) Suderman knew all of the above before he decided to lie to us like the dishonest lying fuck he is. Seriously Suderman, you are disgusting.

      3. Have you read the actual transcript of that phonecall — which the White House freely handed out, and is now on the Internet? Search here: https://lesliebard.blogspot.com

    4. Democrats are openly editing and altering whatever they want the nomination evidence to say.

      https://pjmedia.com/trending/adam-schiff-fabricates-contents-of-ukraine-call-transcript/

      This is pathetic.

  2. According to Peanuts Abuse of Power is fine if you have an (R) by your name.

    1. The peanuts are really salty today.

      1. Is that the snack they give you in the room at your airbnb? Lololol

      2. Is that you putting people into tribes again?

    2. Lucy was a republican?

      1. Don’t talk about Lucy, dawg.

        1. She’s never going to fuck you. I mean, she’s gross and dumb so no idea why anyone would want to fuck her either.

          But she can do better than your room at the airbnb.

      2. Well, impeaching Trump reminds me of Lucy pulling the football away right when Charlie Brown was about to kick it. Maybe Lucy represents the MSM?

    3. Some of us remember how Hillary Clinton, desperate to politically justify the White House Travel Office firings, pressured the FBI to open a criminal investigation. If it is disqualifying for the Presidency for a person motivated by political ends to use their position to pressure people to engage in a criminal investigation, then Hillary Clinton was disqualified for the Presidency in 1994.

      “Business as usual, conducted by Trump” is just business as usual. Pretending otherwise is just partisan hypocrisy as usual.

      1. Some of us remember how Obama used the IRS to target political opponents, and how it gave him the margin he needed to win re-election in 2012.

        http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2013/06/20/yes_irs_harassment_blunted_the_tea_party_ground_game_100412.html?state=nwa

        1. Whataboutism!
          Your source has NO link to Obama personally.
          We do have a smoking gun on Trump.

            1. > Where?

              The phone call that he was on

          1. “We do have a smoking gun on Trump.”

            You are full of shit.

            1. Complaining that it isn’t your usual diet of Trump semen?

              I’d have suspected eating a log of shit would be more of a lateral career move for you and your ilk.

              1. You are disgusting. No, you are EVIL.

          2. I have concluded that LTT is a new name for an old idiot.

        2. Oh God, I remember that. I watched all the hearings and I thought we were in the old USSR or something. The Dems tried like a house-a-fire to cover for the IRS but it was no good. What they did was treasonous, treacherous. Of course Obama and the top Dems were “lock step” with their declaration that “there’s not a smidgen of corruption” and the MSM (marketing arm of the DNC) followed along. It was satisfying that years later the IRS had to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in damages after a court case was brought and the targeted Tea Party/Conservative groups won. What if those offended and abused and targeted didn’t have the money to go to court? To this day, Obama and his ex-staffers freely say “We had the most scandal-free administration in history” or “We didn’t have any scandals”… HA! What bold Fs!!!! HEY, speaking of ignoring a Congressional subpoena, WHAT ABOUT HOLDER?????

    4. “According to Peanuts Abuse of Power is fine if you have an (R) by your name.”

      According to turd, that is an intelligent comment.
      Fuck off and die.

    5. Oh – Like Biden Threatening to withhold $1B in loan guarantees if the prosecutor wasn’t fired for looking at Fraud in Hunter Bidens company? And that the Biden truth!

    6. So far, none of the extensive investigations of Trump have yielded one iota of evidence of abuse of power. I’m beginning to think he’s one of the cleanest presidents we’ve had in a long time.

  3. Conrad Black wrote an interesting piece….the upshot: There are times when the system is so polarized and gridlocked, the people must decide the question. This is one of those times. All of this will be decided at the Ballot Box in November 2020.

    I think this latest brouhaha is mashuginah.

    1. 2020’s #BlueWave will be even more enormous than 2018’s.

      1. Perhaps. But the civil war that follows will be even bigger.

        Think the liberal establishment is ready for that?

      2. America is officially projected to be minority white in 2 decades. If you’re a white Liberal, then you believe that it’s OK to blame you for what other white people did centuries ago & that it doesn’t matter that all races did those horrible things throughout history. You also don’t mind laws where it’s OK to hire someone over you because you’re white & they’re not. You don’t question what CNN, the New York Times etc. say & don’t know that their billionaire owners make money from paying less to illegals & give their employees rules never to say anything positive about Republicans, avoid publicizing crimes if they’re done by non-whites & admitting that 100+ countries (all with non-white majorities) have laws against diversity to keep their countries & not become minorities in them.

        1. America is officially projected to be minority white in 2 decades

          …as long as everyone keeps pretending that white people who speak Spanish and white people from the Middle East and Asia Minor aren’t white.

      3. Fascinating to watch Libs like you cheer the spectacularly anti-rational NKVD tactics of the Left.

        If Trump gets impeached for this— this pile of nothing on top of a stack of nothing— then I don’t really give a shit if the Dems win next time. This country is turning into such a piece of shit, it won’t be worth leading anyway. The Left is so damn childish, with no understanding of history whatsoever, they actually think things are bad right now, they actually believe their own asinine ghost stories about Trump. And they actually think that their communist policies could not possibly have a negative impact on the country. It would be the same, right? Only nicer, cleaner, and more tolerant (of everything except dissent).

        It will be fun when the Left finally gets its way. When they’ve opened the borders and overrun the country with low—to-no skill workers; eliminated domestic CO2 production (but dramatically increased it abroad) by outsourcing all manufacturing to SE Asia; extended “abortion” up to age 5; rescinded the first and second amendments; outlawed heterosexuality and gender identity that coincides with genitalia; sent all the misguided souls who claim to be white to Re-education camps; appropriated all wealth over $1million, raised nominal taxes to 95%, and jailed all the billionaires (who only understood too late that the Revolution is not easily sated, and does not remember the hand that fed it as a babe).

        Ahhh, the Progressive Paradise! It’s gonna be great.

      4. Was that the wave where they lost two senate seats and even more seats in state houses?

    2. So Conrad Black says the fair, judicious and reasonable thing is to shelve the damning reports?

      And that would be the same Conrad Black whose tongue knows the taste of Trump’s shoe leather more than any man alive? The same Conrad Black who has offered excuses (sometimes bizarrely improbable) for every lie or stupid misdeed Trump has ever done? The same Conrad Black pardoned by Trump for a his lengthy list of crimes ?!?

      Look, there is always a case to be made for doing nothing, and this sleazy mess is no exception. But if you look to make it, try a better source than a sniveling weasel like Conrad Black.

      1. ASKING ANOTHER FOREIGN LEADER TO LOOK INTO CORRUPTION IS ABUSE OF POWER!!!

        1. ASKING ANOTHER FOREIGN LEADER TO LOOK INTO CORRUPTION IS ABUSE OF POWER!!!

          IT’S THE FUCKING BRIBERY, RUMPTARD.
          The corruption bullshit was disproven, way back in May, which also shows that Zelensky was being pressured for quite some time. Also shows how little you actually know about a four-monh long news story.

          Ukraine Prosecutor Says No Evidence of Wrongdoing by Bidens
          Ukraine’s prosecutor general said in an interview that he had no evidence of wrongdoing by U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden or his son, despite a swirl of allegations by President Donald Trump’s lawyer.

          And Trump’s Crowdstrike conspiracy is as bat-shit CRAZY as Pizzagate and Birtherism.

          Reality. Deal with it.

          1. Fuck off, Hihn. Post your ransom notes where they’re not so embarrassing.

          2. That’s the prosecutor they hired after Biden blackmailed them into firing the one, who wanted to continue his investigation, stupid.
            Of course he was going to say Biden was clean as the newly driven snow, in a job he had no experience or knowledge of, but was one that could financially gain by the actions of his father.
            And – Fuck off, Hihn!

      2. I know, right? That is ballsy.

        “Look, I’ve enabled all this bad behavior. What’s this you say? The bad behavior is having bad results? Well the only proper answer is to not do anything until the next election.”

        LOL

      3. So grb….Is Mr. Black wrong in his assertion? Namely, there are times where the ballot box will have to decide the question? Partisans on either side will not agree on a common interpretation of facts, let alone the same facts.

        In lieu of doing nothing, the suggestion is to let the people decide the question at the ballot box.

  4. A reconstruction of the phone call released by the White House this week confirms that Trump pressed the Biden issue during the conversation, following a request by Zelenskiy for Javelin missiles, implying an understood quid pro quo deal.

    That is just a complete lie. Trump asked Zelensky to look into interference with the 2016 election. He said nothing about Biden. Suderman is not bright but there is no way he doens’t know that. He is just repeating the same lie.

    There is no abuse of power here. None. And there is no evidence that any of the claims made in the report are true. We have no idea who made this. And the person who made the report has no evidence or direct knowledge of the events in question. The person can’t even say who told him all of this. It is absurd.

    It is pathetic. No one believes this bullshit. Suderman doesn’t believe it. There is no way even he could be that stupid.

    1. ENB and Suderman are trying to mine the same click & comment motherlode that Boehm discovered yesterday afternoon.

      1. Is there anyone that writes at Reason that isn’t blatantly on Team Blue these days?

        1. I was wondering the same thing.

        2. Anyone who doesn’t have a brain-controlling implant, with the joystick in Der TrumpfenFuhrer’s hands, is on Team Blue. This is known!

          1. PROOF that John, Ray, Finrod, VOTE MILES and SQRLSY One are brainwashed puppets for Trump! … Lying about THE top news story!

            This is the smoking gun in the transcript … now even worse with the whistleblower report.
            https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-transcript-read-ukraine-president-phone-call-transcript-pdf-released-today-joe-biden-crowdstrike-2019-09-25/

            Zelensky thanked Trump for US military support, which would be used to buy missiles from us … .presumably ignorant that Trump had ILLEGALLY blocked the funding support.

            ZELENSKY:
            I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the the next steps, specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United· States for defense purposes.

            Trump’s immediate response … the bribe. My emphasis. The word “though” cements his intent, along with the timing and context..

            TRUMP:
            I would like you to do us a favor though
            , because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike… I guess you have one of your wealthy people… The server, they say Ukraine has it

            The other thing.here’s a lot of talk about Biden’s son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you ·can look into it..

            Black and white PROOF. Released by TRUMP’S the White House, but, THEY STILL REFUSE TO ACCEPT UNDENIABLE PROOF.

            TWO psycho lies. Biden’s bragging and Crowdstrike.

            Crowdstrike is yet another wacky Trump conspiracy, even crazier than Pizzzagate and Birtherism. Crowdstrike is a MAJOR AMERICAN cyber-security firm, who first discovered that Russians had hacked the DNC server. less than 12 hours after Trump publicly asked Russia to find Hillary’s emails. The FBI later confirmed the Russian … but THAT is part of the Deep State Conspiracy. (wink, wink) Trump NEEDS the lie that Crowdstrike was yet another foreign conspiracy AGAINST him, owned by a wealthy Ukrainian. That Trump mentions it HERE proves … the crazy psycho BELIEVES IT!

            Crowdstrike is an AMERICAN firm, PUBLICLY owned (NASDAQ), headquartered in California, with a major office in the DC area,
            Google it!

            THIS is impeachable, and even crazier than you’ve likely heard!
            Pathetic losers. Trump SAID they’d lie to defend him of even murder. (shudder)

            1. So, shitstain, how much do we have to pay to get our dog back? Do we meet you at the corner market with an envelop with the cash in it?
              Fuck off and die, Hihn.

              1. Since when was Trump the libertarian choice? I haven’t been on this site in a while. All of you mouth breathers praying to and for an all powerful and corrupt executive are not a good fit for the ideological, principled libertarian type. Seems you are just “conservatives” who are for closed borders, tariffs (what happened to austrian economics?), exploding deficits for no reason, and unrestricted and unreported drone bombings. Strange, it almost seems like the only thing that you are actually conservative about is the racial make up of those in charge. To quote another one of your cult members, “He’s not hurting the right people.”

                1. Hi De Oppresso Liber,

                  Sad to say, there’s a TON of TrumpTards barfing all over these pages! There’s also a smattering of those of us who believe in minimizing the size of Government Almighty, and maximizing the size of individual freedom. It’s a desperate rear-guard defensive action, just like in real life. I post here sometimes, in the hope of letting people know that “libertarians” DO include those who are NOT in thrall to our Orange-Haired Wonder!

                  Trumpty Dumpty, He’s quite off-the-wall,
                  Trumpty Dumpty won’t stay in His toilet stall
                  He just goes ahead and takes His shits,
                  Totally regardless of whereever He sits
                  Whenever He simply, no way, can sleep,
                  He Twits us His thoughts, they’re all SOOO deep!
                  He simply must, He MUST, Twit us His bird,
                  No matter the words, however absurd!
                  He sits and snorts His coke with a spoon,
                  Then He brazenly shoots us His moon!
                  They say He’ll be impeached by June,
                  Man, oh man, June cannot come too soon!
                  So He sits and jiggles His balls,
                  Then He Twitters upon the walls
                  “Some come here to sit and think,
                  Some come here to shit and stink
                  But I come here to scratch my balls,
                  And read the writings on the walls
                  Here I sit, My cheeks a-flexin’
                  Giving birth to another Texan!
                  Here I sit, on the pooper,
                  Giving birth to another state trooper!
                  He who writes these lines of wit,
                  Wraps His Trump in little balls,
                  He who reads these lines of wit,
                  Eats those loser’s balls of shit!”

                  1. That’s comforting. I used to play Republican light in local politics, but since Trump’s nomination, I cannot get anywhere close to the gop. I always knew the religious and racist kooks, and morons were in the party, but I was not prepared for them to take over.

                    1. Another brilliant political debate. *clap clap clap*

                    2. De Oppresso Liber
                      September.26.2019 at 4:31 pm
                      “Another brilliant political debate. *clap clap clap*”

                      More than you deserve, slaver.

                    3. Sevo
                      September.26.2019 at 4:34 pm
                      De Oppresso Liber
                      September.26.2019 at 4:31 pm
                      “Another brilliant political debate. *clap clap clap*”

                      More than you deserve, slaver.

                      Get it all out, there you go. Does that feel better, hun?

                    4. DOL, media matters is paying you far too much.
                      I know it’s like $10/day, but still more than you’re worth

                2. “Since when was Trump the libertarian choice?”
                  You’re right; we should all just put up with constant TDS and wish we could have the hag as POTUS!

                  “All of you mouth breathers praying to and for an all powerful and corrupt executive are not a good fit for the ideological, principled libertarian type.”
                  Nor are fucking lefty ignoramuses dragging strawmen around.

                  1. Please show me how I am a lefty. Go ahead and quote me.

                3. Since when was Trump the libertarian choice?

                  He isn’t “the libertarian choice”. He’s simply the duly elected president and fairly middle of the road as far as US politics go. What the Democrats are doing to him is frightening, not just from a libertarian point of view, but from a constitutional and democratic point of view. That’s why people object to it.

                  1. He has violated the US constitution repeatedly and blatantly. Start with emoluments, then this. He should not be allowed to finish his term, unless you want the next executive to be completely above the law. Which, coincidentally, Trump himself has asserted that he is above the law. https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/no-one-is-above-the-law-legal-experts-respond-to-trump-claim-that-no-one-can-criminally-investigate-him/

                    I highly doubt president Obama have been as vociferously defended in here if he decided to withhold congressional mandated foreign aid pending the aided country digging up dirt on a political opponent, or asserting himself to be literally outside of the law.

                    1. He has violated the US constitution repeatedly and blatantly. Start with emoluments, then this.

                      Really? How did Trump violate the emoluments clause? How is “this” a violation of the Constitution? Which article in particular?

                      I highly doubt president Obama have been as vociferously defended in here if he decided to withhold congressional mandated foreign aid pending the aided country digging up dirt on a political opponent, or asserting himself to be literally outside of the law.

                      Obama was tepidly criticized for his clear violations of the US Constitution and his abuses of power. For all the good it did.

                    2. NOYB2
                      September.26.2019 at 5:35 pm
                      He has violated the US constitution repeatedly and blatantly. Start with emoluments, then this.

                      Really? How did Trump violate the emoluments clause? How is “this” a violation of the Constitution? Which article in particular?

                      I highly doubt president Obama have been as vociferously defended in here if he decided to withhold congressional mandated foreign aid pending the aided country digging up dirt on a political opponent, or asserting himself to be literally outside of the law.

                      Obama was tepidly criticized for his clear violations of the US Constitution and his abuses of power. For all the good it did.

                      Go ahead and read the “transcript” (notes that are incomplete, in reality): https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf

                      Notice the Ukrainian president making sure to mention that he and his staff stay at Trump hotels? I wonder why he did that. Fo fuck’s sake, a president should not have such obvious conflicts of interest. Libertarians used to understand this.

                    3. Notice the Ukrainian president making sure to mention that he and his staff stay at Trump hotels? I wonder why he did that. Fo fuck’s sake, a president should not have such obvious conflicts of interest. Libertarians used to understand this.

                      Libertarians understand that the US government, including the president, should have so little power that his conflicts of interest don’t matter.

                      People who worry about conflicts of interest by the executive branch are people who want to vest too much power in the executive branch in the first place: progressives, socialists, and fascists. You know, people like you.

                      Your concern trolling is duly noted, but don’t pretend that you care about libertarian causes.

                    4. In any case, your question has been answered: Trump is the duly elected president and so far, nobody has been able to make a compelling legal case to impeach him. So far, it’s one attempt at undermining US democracy after another: Russia, Kavanaugh, Ukraine, etc.

                      And even if Trump had technically violated the emoluments clause because a Ukrainian prime minister stayed at his hotel and contributed a rounding error to his bank account, I still prefer that to the mass murdering, socialist, police-state policies of Democrats, past and present.

                    5. Oh yes, noyb the guy who wants the executive to face legal repercussions when he breaks the law and wants him to sell off his international business in order to become president is the fake libertarian in this exchange. The guy who defends a painfully obvious corrupt president who has argued in court that he is literally outside the law is the REAL LIBERTARIAN here.

                      What alternate reality do you reside in?

                    6. Oh yes, noyb the guy who wants the executive to face legal repercussions when he breaks the law

                      Whether someone has “broken the law” is determined by due process and judges. Has Trump been found guilty of breaking the law? No. Therefore, your accusation is political fabrication.

                      and wants him to sell off his international business in order to become president is the fake libertarian in this exchange.

                      The idea that businessmen need to sell off their businesses in order to become president is not just not libertarian, it’s positively fascist.

                      The guy who defends a painfully obvious corrupt president who has argued in court that he is literally outside the law is the REAL LIBERTARIAN here.

                      I’m not “defending the president”, I’m defending whatever semblance of constitutional government the US has left.

              2. We should all give Sevo a strong dose of sympathy.

                He’s a 57 year veteran of the Klan who’s still waiting for his mommy to explain why he doesn’t have testicles like the other boys.

            2. I didn’t and won’t vote for Trump, jackass.

            3. it is not you pathetically stupid, low IQ, gullible puppet. Wow.

          2. That’s why team blue will be losers in 2020

          3. The exact opposite actually:

            America is officially projected to be minority white in 2 decades. If you’re a white Liberal, then you believe that it’s OK to blame you for what other white people did centuries ago & that it doesn’t matter that all races did those horrible things throughout history. You also don’t mind laws where it’s OK to hire someone over you because you’re white & they’re not. You don’t question what CNN, the New York Times etc. say & don’t know that their billionaire owners make money from paying less to illegals & give their employees rules never to say anything positive about Republicans, avoid publicizing crimes if they’re done by non-whites & admitting that 100+ countries (all with non-white majorities) have laws against diversity to keep their countries & not become minorities in them.

    2. He said nothing about Biden

      Good God, John, you are dumb.

      The other thing, There’s a lot of talk about Biden’s son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it… It sounds horrible to me.

      1. How is that pressing the issue? Hey, this sounds bad is pressing? What does “pressing the issue” even mean?

        Lie all you want but the words have meanings. Is there anything you ever say that isn’t a lie? Anything?

        1. MORE crazy lies by John. THE BIDEN CONSPIRACY WAS DISPROVEN BACK IN MAY ..

          Ukraine Prosecutor Says No Evidence of Wrongdoing by Bidens


          Ukraine’s prosecutor general said in an interview that he had no evidence of wrongdoing by U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden or his son, despite a swirl of allegations by President Donald Trump’s lawyer.THAT also proves the multiple threats to Zelensky, on the psycho Biden lie,

          1. Biden’s conduct was clearly corrupt, whether it was illegal or not.

          2. here is Biden admitting he got ukraine to fire the propsecutor

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCF9My1vBP4

    3. “Suderman is not bright but there is no way he doens’t know that.”

      Why give him such benefit of the doubt? Suderman is a blithering idiot. I doubt he knows his name without looking at a license.

      “There is no way even he could be that stupid.”

      Again, what’s with the benefit of the doubt for him? 🙂

    4. I think Suderman is this stupid. Or so emotionally driven his brain doesn’t work. ‘I agree its bullshit, absurd, lunacy.

      If you’re going to call something an “abuse of power” then you had better identify where your standard of conduct is coming from. Because this isn’t a law. It isn’t in the Constitution. The Constitution allows Trump to say whatever he wants and to twist US policy, subject to other Constitutional provisions (Senate ratification, for instance), any which way he wants. Why is this an “abuse of power” except that Suderman says so? If so, fuck him, and the horse he rode in on.

      This is not “abuse” of power. It’s the exercise of it — even if the absolute worst case allegation is true (almost certainly it isn’t). This low level CIA guy wouldn’t know — he wasn’t party to any of it. Nor has he seen any relevant documents. It’s all third hand, at best, and a lot of supposition and conjecture.

      But at the end of the day, Trump won the election. He has a lot of discretion, infinite, really. No honest person can say that asking a foreign power to do a good faith investigation into whether our country’s vice president, or his crack-head son, engaged in pay for play, or grift, or violated the FCPA, is beyond the scope of appropriate conduct. You may not agree with it. (The only reason to be concerned is if there is a chance your guy is about to get popped, btw.) You may not like that Rudy was involved. How is this “abuse” unless there is just some Suderman veto right?

      Total bullshit.

  5. “The whistleblower’s account remains anonymous and uncorroborated.”

    Sound like most of the actual MSM reporting these days.

    1. The whistleblower’s account names multiple witnesses to the events described. Many of those witnesses were interviewed by the Inspector General before his finding that the whistleblower’s complaint is “credible and urgent”.

      Maybe you missed that. Probably something not reported on FOX.

      1. Inspector General also said the whistleblower had political bias against Trump, but that doesn’t Fit The Narrative.

      2. The whistleblower’s account names multiple witnesses to the events described

        No, he doesn’t actually name them. He said there were “multiple witnesses.” That’s it.

        1. Yes; the un-redacted report specifically lists witnesses by name, some of whom has already been interviewed by the Inspector General. I shouldn’t have to repeat myself.

          • In the complaint, the whistleblower said there were multiple White House officials who were witness to the call and could corroborate the allegations.

          • The inspector general, a Trump appointee who elevated the complaint, interviewed these witnesses.

          • The inspector general concluded from his fact-finding that Trump had potentially broken the law by soliciting what amounted to a foreign campaign contribution, which exposed the president “to serious national security and counterintelligence risks.”

          Here’s my advice for you : Do due diligence research on your assertion, find out you’re wrong, and then move on to a new assertion to be wrong about.

          1. “Here’s my advice for you : Do due diligence research on your assertion, find out you’re wrong, and then move on to a new assertion to be wrong about.”

            Here’s my advice to you:
            Provide cites for your claims, or STFU

            1. https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2019/09/20190812_-_whistleblower_complaint_unclass.pdf

              And he names at least one name of someone who was on the call. So, you are wrong. I’m sure you will adjust your opinions accordingly. Otherwise you’d be some sort of cult member, right? Hahaha.

              1. OK, there is one named; here’s the claim: “In the complaint, the whistleblower said there were multiple White House officials who were witness to the call and could corroborate the allegations.”
                Fail
                And then, gee, ‘interfering with an election’ which is still more than a year off by inquiring about someone who is not yet a candidate in that election!

                1. How is that a fail? He names at least one person who was on the call and says he can produce more names. No one, as far as we know, has had the whistleblower back his claims up yet.

                  1. And every time the ratfink says “for personal political gain” you could insert “to discover corrupt actions by US citizens”.
                    Easy peasey. It’s all how you look at things.
                    This asshole is looking at everything in the world, like so many commies do, as being something to get Trump over, and ignores any other of a million possibilities.

                    1. Yeah, I’m sure the guy who is legally barred from operating a charity due to gross fraud in his last charity is just soooper dedicated to rooting out corruption.

          2. The DoJ, who handles prosecutions, felt he did not break laws and hearsay isn’t sufficient to serve as evidence.

        2. “We have top men working on it right now.”

      3. “The whistleblower’s account names multiple witnesses to the events described. Many of those witnesses were interviewed by the Inspector General before his finding that the whistleblower’s complaint is “credible and urgent”.”

        Is it possible for you to post without lying, you piece of shit?

    2. Whistleblowers are ALWAYS anonymous. THAT’S WHAT IT MEANS, And it was corroborated by the Inspector General, which is how THAT works!

      Sound like most of the actual MSM reporting these days.

      Sounds like an average Trumptard. Anyone who says MSM is likely as eagerly brainwashed ignorant as whiny Atlas.

        1. You have absolutely no argument. You cite nothing, and add nothing of substance whatsoever.

          1. Fuck off and die, slaver.

            1. Another substantive post. Bravo!

              Here, I’ll help you say something with substance: How am I a slaver?

          2. We’ve seen the transcript of the conversation and nothing there indicates pressure, and the Ukrainian president said there was no pressure.
            You are putting multiple tidbits, from various sources, interpreted by an enemy of the president, against first-hand recounting of the conversation.
            Which one holds up in a court of law?

            1. I wish you guys weren’t so gullible. The ig, a trump appointee, denied the complaint “credible and urgent”. The president’s DOJ then illegally withheld the complaint from Congress. Totally above board, just like Mexico paying for the wall that’s totally being built and releasing the tax returns as promised.

              How do you guys maintain such blind faith in the presence of overwhelming evidence against it?

              1. “The president’s DOJ then illegally withheld the complaint from Congress.”

                Schiff had it since at least August.

  6. half the fun is reading everyone laugh at you for the shilling.

    1. I also came for the lolz. I think Suderman gets hard thinking about impeachment

      1. So now Trump needs to apologize to Megan too?

  7. Oh my god, a sitting US President called the leader of a smaller country asking for a favor in return for his support. Sounds like life.

    1. It is an abuse of power. Suderman has to understand how stupid this sounds. He just has to. How does he type this with a straight face?

      1. He just didn’t do it on his phone, John, oh and he’s a Tepublican so no problem. Jesus Christ, man.

        1. ASKING ANOTHER FOREIGN LEADER TO LOOK INTO CORRUPTION IS ABUSE OF POWER!!!

          1. Manufacturing charges against political opponents is exactly what happens in Putin’s Russia.

            1. Pod
              September.26.2019 at 2:43 pm
              “Manufacturing charges against political opponents is exactly what happens in Putin’s Russia.”

              Posting irrelevant bullshit is exactly what fucking lefty ignoramuses do.

            2. “Manufacturing charges against political opponents is exactly what happens in Putin’s Russia.”

              And in progressive USA

          2. Withholding foreign aid pending you drum up charges against a political opponent is an abuse of power. I await your well reasoned and sourced counter-argument, I’m sure.

            1. When your source for “pending you drum up charges against a political opponent” is ipulleditoutofmyass, dot, com, your argument falls apart.
              We’ve read the transcript of what was said. That didn’t happen.

              1. You haven’t read a transcript. No transcript has been released. You might have read a summary memo, but I doubt you did. Why do you enjoy being lied to?

            2. Umm…Biden did that. Precisely that. And he BRAGGED about it.

        2. It’s ok if he uses his pen AND phone.

          1. Next we’ll find out that Trump was doodling with a pen during the call, and the Democrats will claim that’s impeachable conduct.

  8. Nobody makes secret deals on the phone.

    1. Let’s get Trump for wire fraud! That’s the ticket!

      1. He may actually like that since he could spend time in prison with Lori Loughlin.

  9. So the idea is that the phone call records were improperly filed a classified so there was a coverup, but Trump released thev records when asked for. This does not seem to be a competent cover up. Making an accusation of attempting a process crime which the accused does not follow through on does not definitively indicate an abuse of power.

    1. Records involving diplomatic conversations are routinely classified. I don’t see any evidence this was “improperly classified”. They keep reaching for one straw after another.

      1. Maybe he stored it on a server located in trump tower. Now that would be a scandal.

        1. And then shred the hard drives when asked for the recording by Congress.

      2. Yep.
        While the whistleblower complaint indicates that the call “did not contain anything remotely sensitive”, the discussion of Merkel by POTUS and Zelenskiy alone would qualify as sensitive.

        The whistleblower may have worked in the U.S. intelligence community, but I’d bet he is State Department.

        1. The whistleblower complaint also indicates the whistleblower was operating off second hand accounts, so how the hell would he know that?

          1. ONE MORE TIME …. the whistleblower reported the names of witnesses … who were corroborated by the Inspector General. Thar’s how it works, You’re being manipulated by your ignorance (or denial) of both the process and the facts.

            1. One more time:
              You are full of shit.

            2. just read the whistle blowers report he does not name witnesses

                1. Oh, my!
                  And the rest reads as if it came right off the NYT front page; plenty of assumptions, few facts.

                  1. So you have no counter argument? You could just say that.

                2. “”ONE MORE TIME …. the whistleblower reported the names of witnesses “”

                  Perhaps that should get revised to say witness.

                  1. He says that multiple members of white house staff were on the call, which is almost as good as naming them, and names a DoS staff member on the call. I really don’t see how Trumpians think this point helps their argument at all?

                    1. We’ve seen what was said and it doesn’t sound like the ratfink is being told about the same one.
                      Maybe he’s confused it with Biden’s boast of threatening to withhold the loan guarantees unless the prosecutor, looking into his son’s firm, is fired.

                3. “He does name at least one witness, Ulrich Brechbull.”

                  You know who wasn’t on the call?

                  Ulrich Brechbull.

      3. Just the fact there seems to be an entire Deep State Department dedicated to releasing transcripts of Trump’s calls with foreign leaders seems to justify a higher level of classification for his calls.

        1. That’s not a “fact.” No dark conspiracy. Obama was born in Hawaii.

          1. “”That’s not a “fact.” No dark conspiracy. Obama was born in Hawaii.””

            Take it up with his publicist that wrote he was born in Kenya. And Hillary for first promoting the conspiracy.

            btw. I believe Obama was born in HI

        2. Still talking about the Deep State, eh? Trump has had 3 years to fill the government with his cronies, and largely has, other than they keep going to prison or quitting. Yet you still talk about a conspiracy. Sad.

          1. “Still talking about the Deep State, eh? Trump has had 3 years to fill the government with his cronies, and largely has, other than they keep going to prison or quitting.”

            Oh, I guess he’s not king then, right?

            1. He’s not king, but he does get to hire basically who ever he wants for government roles. So who is this pesky deep state that Trump almighty can’t rid himself of?

              1. De Oppresso Liber = TheLibertyTruthTeller = F44.81

                1. Sorry, not true. Is that supposed to be an IP prefix or something?

                2. You could also try to argue against my claims using facts, if you find me so offensive. But that seems to be beyond your and the other Trumpians’ abilities.

              2. “He’s not king, but he does get to hire basically who ever he wants for government roles.”

                Yes, bureaucrats are notoriously easy to dismiss from office.

    2. My understanding is that the exact transcript of the full 30 minute conversation was immediately classified. What was released was only five pages long and is full of ellipses. I think the implication is that there is more to the conversation that was not released.

      For me that point is not terribly relevant though. The transcript alone is enough to initiate an impeachment investigation.

      1. There’s no such thing as an “exact transcript” here.

        1. There’s no such thing as an “exact transcript” here.

          Another Trump lie (or broken promise). He also said it would be non-redacted.

          It’s becoming ever more obvious that Trump speaks solely to brainwash his puppets, since hardly anyone else swallows his non-stop bullshit.

          1. “It’s becoming ever more obvious that Trump speaks solely to brainwash his puppets, since hardly anyone else swallows his non-stop bullshit.”

            It’s becoming increasingly clear that TDS is a long-term disease. Seek treatment, you piece of shit.

      2. “The transcript alone is enough to initiate an impeachment investigation”

        We know Jeff. Youve been threadshitting about it for days.

        And if you’re going to sock, get better at it.

        1. You must have me confused with somebody else. I am not Jeff.

          1. They’re obsessed with socks, typical behavior of paranoid minds. It’s fascinating really.

      3. “The transcript alone is enough to initiate an impeachment investigation.”

        And you can say that because you didn’t bother to read them preferring instead to rely on the medias version of the truth. They’re another nothing burger. But the Trump haters are so desperate they’ll grasp at anything. Here’s what Trump said:

        “I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike … I guess you have one of your wealthy people… The server, they say Ukraine has.it. There are a lot. of things that went on, the whole situation .. I think you you’re surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you say yesterday, that whole nonsense is ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they. say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it’s very important that you. do it if that’s possible.”

        “Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who· was very good and he was shut down and that’s really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor bf New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General Rudy very much knows what’s happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States, the woman, was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news so I just want to let you know that The other thing, There’s a lot talk about Biden’s son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it… It sounds horrible to me.”

        “Well, she’ s going to go through some things. I will have Mr. Giuliani give you a call and I am. Also going to have Attorney General Barr call and we will get to the bottom of it. I’m sure you will figure it out. I heard the prosecutor was treated very badly and he was a very fair prosecutor so good luck with everything. Your economy is going to get better and better I predict. You have a lot of assets. It’s a great country. I have many Ukrainian friends, their incredible people.”

        Sorry, but there’s nothing here, please move on to the next manufactured scandal. This dead horse has been flogged out.

        1. I read the transcript entirely.

          The President of the United States asked a foreign government in an official capacity to investigate a major political rival. Trump abused his office for his own personal political gain. That is clearly worth an impeachment investigation, in my opinion.

          Let me put it this way. What if there was a transcript somewhere that showed Obama explicitly asked the IRS to pressure the Tea Party? Would you think that was worth an impeachment inquiry?

          1. The President of the United States asked a foreign government in an official capacity to investigate a corrupt former Vice President, who demanded, in an official capacity, that a foreign government fire a prosecutor who was investigating his son.

            You don’t think Biden should be investigated for abusing his authority? No one is above the law.

          2. 0blama blatantly made an executive order that contradicted what the Senate had just rejected and authorized issuing of work-orders and a def-facto amnesty for the DACAsses.
            That, alone, was a massive violation of his Constitutional powers and, yet a Republican House didn’t even talk about impeachment.
            Trump’s hair gets mussed up and “it’s on”.
            Shit, they wanted to impeach him before he had taken office.
            Yeah, things are really equal.

          3. “The President of the United States asked a foreign government in an official capacity to investigate a major political rival.”

            Who? There is no guarantee Biden even is the nominee (he’s trailing Warren now, after all). Who’s this rival?

      4. “My understanding is that the exact transcript of the full 30 minute conversation was immediately classified. What was released was only five pages long and is full of ellipses. I think the implication is that there is more to the conversation that was not released.”

        Yeesh.

        The media tried a gotcha saying “It only takes 13 minutes to say what was said on the transcript”

        …ignoring that translators were involved which increases the time considerably.

        1. Yeah, the translation is actually a good point! I had not thought of that. Thanks.

          There are still several ellipses, so there could be some redacted parts of the conversation still. In any case, as I said above I think the presently available transcript is sufficient for considering impeachment.

          1. You, probably thought Trump winning the election was sufficient for considering impeachment.
            Find someone, who honestly has changed their opinion on impeachment over this nothingburger.

      5. juan
        September.26.2019 at 1:04 pm
        “My understanding is that the exact transcript of the full 30 minute conversation was immediately classified. What was released was only five pages long and is full of ellipses. I think the implication is that there is more to the conversation that was not released.”
        Your bullshit claim is not backed by evidence, so we’ll allow that you are full of shit.

        “For me that point is not terribly relevant though. The transcript alone is enough to initiate an impeachment investigation.”
        Yeah, TDS does that to idiots.

        1. Pay attention, Puppets On a String. PROOF (they’ll just deny again)

          This is the smoking gun in the transcript … now even worse with the whistleblower report.
          https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-transcript-read-ukraine-president-phone-call-transcript-pdf-released-today-joe-biden-crowdstrike-2019-09-25/

          Zelensky thanked Trump for US military support, which would be used to buy missiles from us … .presumably ignorant that Trump had ILLEGALLY blocked the funding support.

          ZELENSKY:
          I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the the next steps, specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United· States for defense purposes.

          Trump’s immediate response … the bribe. My emphasis. The word “though” cements his intent, along with the timing and context..

          TRUMP:
          I would like you to do us a favor though
          , because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike… I guess you have one of your wealthy people… The server, they say Ukraine has it

          The other thing.here’s a lot of talk about Biden’s son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you ·can look into it..

          Black and white PROOF. Released by TRUMP’S White House, but, THEY STILL REFUSE TO ACCEPT UNDENIABLE PROOF.

          TWO psycho lies. Biden’s bragging and Crowdstrike.

          Crowdstrike is yet another wacky Trump conspiracy, even crazier than Pizzzagate and Birtherism. Crowdstrike is a MAJOR AMERICAN cyber-security firm, who first discovered that Russians had hacked the DNC server. less than 12 hours after Trump publicly asked Russia to find Hillary’s emails. The FBI later confirmed the Russian hack … but THAT is part of the Deep State Conspiracy. (wink, wink)

          Trump NEEDS the lie that Crowdstrike was yet another foreign conspiracy AGAINST him, owned by a wealthy Ukrainian. That Trump mentions it HERE proves … the crazy psycho BELIEVES IT!

          Crowdstrike is an AMERICAN firm, PUBLICLY owned (NASDAQ), headquartered in California, with a major office in the DC area,
          Google it, goobers!

          This IS impeachable, even worse with the whistleblower report.

          Trump NOW says the staffers who turned him in should be prosecuted for TREASON — Trump’s word for ANYONE placing country (and/or oath) above slavish obedience to … only him.

          1. What’s with all these fake libertarians defending an openly corrupt republican anyway? They really don’t like Mexicans, or what? I haven’t visited this site since 2016, and it’s like the twilight zone now. John was always a fake libertarian, but the others are new and so, so sad.

            1. De Oppresso Liber
              September.26.2019 at 4:05 pm
              “What’s with all these fake libertarians defending an openly corrupt republican anyway?”

              What’s with all these fucking lefty ignoramuses trying to claim they know anything about libertarianism?

              1. Please point to a single comment by me that shows that I have any sympathy for the left.

                1. You simply recite their talking points

          2. Because USING UPPERCASE makes it more CONVINCING and not at all like a GIANT FUCKING PILE OF SHIT.

        2. Here is a fact in support of my position. There is a note at the bottom of the five page document released by the White House:

          A Memorandum of a Telephone Conversation (TELCON) is not a verbatim transcript of a discussion. The text in this document records the notes and recollections of Situation Room Duty Officers and NSC policy staff assigned to listen and memorialize the conversation in written form as the conversation takes place. A number of factors can affect the accuracy of the record, including poor telecommunications connections and variations in accent and/or interpretation.

          The key part is “not a verbatim transcript”. The point I was making in response to Mickey Rat’s earlier comment is that the whistleblower seemed to imply that there are more detailed records of the conversation that were immediately classified.

          What is TDS? If you are saying that I am idiot, can you explain why you think so?

          1. The enemedia got to question the Ukrainian President, yesterday.
            Did he tell them that the transcript left out some pertinent quotes?
            WE know they asked if he felt pressured and he said he wasn’t, so the ratfink, supposedly an executive branch employee, was wrong on that count.
            A lie on one thing indicates lies on everything else.

    3. they have moved the goal post by now saying they were stored somewhere else, at least they were still at the white house instead of someones closet at their home.

  10. This is what happens when the Democrats realize their candidates suck ass. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

    1. Exactly wrong. Democrats were already guaranteed to win in 2020 due to the recession.

      They’re impeaching because it’s the moral and patriotic thing to do.

      1. $50 says Trump gets re-elected. Put up or STFU.

      2. “Exactly wrong. Democrats were already guaranteed to win in 2020 due to the recession.”

        “They’re impeaching because it’s the moral and patriotic thing to do.”

        Exactly wrong. The Democrats know they can’t beat Trump in a fair election and impeaching him is their only chance to avoid electoral defeat and humiliation. That’s why Richard Painter said that if the Democrats don’t impeach Trump the Democrats are going to lose in 2020, and they’ll deserve to.

        They left has been lying about Trump since before the election and it’s become a sad “Boy who cried wolf” joke. Three years of lies are enough.

        1. He lost the popular vote by the widest margin ever, has had more confirmed lies and scandals than any president in history, and you claim he’s unbeatable? Amazing logic.

          1. “He lost the popular vote by the widest margin ever,”
            Aw, poor loser. Didn’t read the rules, right?

            “…has had more confirmed lies and scandals than any president in history, and you claim he’s unbeatable?”
            Bullshit.

            “Amazing logic.”
            More bullshit.

            1. Do you ever get tired of typing so much without saying anything at all? Go ahead and show me, with sources, a president who told more verifiable lies than Trump.
              Ball is in your court. Don’t blow it!

              1. Almost all “verifiable” Trump “lies” are differences of opinion, not lies.
                0blama lied with almost every statement, punctuated by gaining the honor of making the “lie of the year” in 2013…”If you like your plan, you can keep your plan. If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.”

          2. Popular vote is a myth. Lots of football teams lose despite getting more offensive yards than the other team.

            1. Well it certainly calls the president’s popularity and re-electability into question, for rational people anyway.

              1. If the number of total votes, in a nation whose system makes voting a futile effort in many states, is an indication of “popularity”, then 0blama, who lost 3.5 million votes between ’08 and ’12, with a 9 million increase in population, must have become pretty unpopular.
                His chosen successor, lost another 100,000 with a similar increase in overall numbers.
                Looks like it is more than the person, but the entire ideology, that is unpopular.

              2. Trump will likely lose CA. And Hillary should probably run for governor there. CA is why she won the popular vote.

  11. The whistleblower’s account remains anonymous and uncorroborated. We need more firsthand, on-the-record information. But if the document is accurate, it strongly suggests that Trump knew that what he was doing was wrong and didn’t want others to find out.

    We know it’s not accurate because we have the transcript as it was released. So we have first hand on the record information.

    According to the report, White House officials were “‘directed’ by White House lawyers to remove the electronic transcript from the computer system in which such transcripts are typically stored” for sharing and other use within the administration. Instead, the records were to be stored in a more secretive and compartmentalized system designed for classified information. One White House official, the report says, described this as an “abuse” of the more secretive system, because the Ukraine call records did not belong there.

    The clear implication is that the call records were understood to be damaging, and thus were hidden from scrutiny. (Trump also personally ordered the delay of nearly $400 million in aid to Ukraine in advance of the call, possibly in violation of the constitutional separation of powers, and refused to provide an explanation.)

    We have the transcript. Every single person in america has more access to more firsthand information right now than the whistleblower ever had when he made the complaint. WTF is this article. Was it written like last week or something?

    1. oh I’m sorry I missed this nugget:

      A reconstruction of the phone call released by the White House this week confirms that Trump pressed the Biden issue during the conversation, following a request by Zelenskiy for Javelin missiles, implying an understood quid pro quo deal.

      Is Suderman actually suggesting that there is another transcript somewhere or that the reconstruction is somewhere else? because if that’s true why wouldn’t the others who tipped off this whistleblower who by all sources has no direct firsthand knowledge of anything that actually happened speak up. Because if true this would basically be Watergate as that’s what Nixon actually did. So we’d have precedent and those leakers would be regarded as heros with parades, book deals and movies. Or maybe this is all bullshit and the reconstruction is actually an accurate summation of the call rendering this entire article a retarded waste of time.

      1. Is Suderman actually suggesting that there is another transcript somewhere or that the reconstruction is somewhere else?

        He’s quoting the “transcript” almost exactly. Read that part here

        https://reason.com/2019/09/26/trumps-ukraine-call-was-an-abuse-of-power-and-this-time-he-cant-claim-ignorance-or-inexperience/#comment-7946651

        Sorry, not another wacko Trumpian conspiracy.

        1. “He’s quoting the “transcript” almost exactly. Read that part here”

          Hihn, again, cites his earlier claims as facts!

    2. it strongly suggests that Trump knew that what he was doing was wrong

      If it actually wasn’t wrong, then what Trump did or didn’t think about its wrongness is irrelevant.

      1. For trump to be able to go trough his daily life the way that he does, he must not pay much attention to any sort of wrongness filter.

        So if it actually wasn’t wrong, or if it actually was wrong – probably doesn’t matter to him either way because it is not something he checks for.

        1. At this point the wrongness of his actions depend totally on your political standpoint, so hard no filter makes sense.

          1. Only to those who deny the hard facts,

            1. You don’t have any.
              Fuck off.

      2. Guilty conscience. this is Sudermans new lane. Hes the Shikha of determining conscience.

    3. One White House official, the report says, described this as an “abuse” of the more secretive system, because the Ukraine call records did not belong there.

      This is pretty hilarious, considering the President is the ultimate classification authority.

      1. WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH

        1. Yes, all of this is sailing over your head like the clouds sail over the ocean.

  12. II was too young for the last impeachment thing with the bill clinton guy. Are these any fun to watch? Today’s thing is very boring. The maguire guy seems very respectable, I like him. But most of the questions are so repetitive and crappy. Even if everything trump did is on the up & up (&up), the nunes guy is even more in the tank than some of the democrats. Overall the hearing thing today, except for the maquire guy himself and one or two others, is a complete embarrassment. These people went to school and stuff and should be able to conduct themselves better.

    1. No, not fun. Unless you get your jollies from seeing dudes discuss “what the meaning of is is”.

    2. The fun is watching progressives scream at the clouds over things they’ve allowed their own people to do, and much worse, for decades

    3. The difference is that Bill Clinton provably committed a felony (perjury), and the Democrats whined like stuck pigs that “it doesn’t rise to the level of impeachment” and “Republicans are obsessed about sex”.

    4. The last one was painful as hell. This one might be fun because Trump’s going to be talking shit on Twitter 24/7.

  13. ASKING ANOTHER FOREIGN LEADER TO LOOK INTO CORRUPTION IS ABUSE OF POWER!!! – Shorter Chipper and Jeff

    1. That’s not what he did! And your corruption delusion was debunked way back in May. Educate yourself. I’ll go slowly.

      Ukraine Prosecutor Says No Evidence of Wrongdoing by Bidens
      Ukraine’s prosecutor general said in an interview that he had no evidence of wrongdoing by U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden or his son, despite a swirl of allegations by President Donald Trump’s lawyer.

      Also proves how long they’d been pressuring Zelensky for your corruption delusion.

      Plus, Trump’s Crowdstrike is a BAT-SHIT CRAZY conspiracy, as wacky as Pizzagate and Birtherism. Did you swallow THEM?
      Anything else?

      1. “That’s not what he did! And your corruption delusion was debunked way back in May. Educate yourself. I’ll go slowly.”

        Good.
        Keep it up and your idiocy may make itself known to you.

  14. Brit Hume tweets a good’un:

    As of Wednesday morning, when the Urkaine phone call transcript was released, the public knew more about what transpired on the call than the whistleblower knew when he/she filed the complaint.

    1. It’s about the coverup, the lies and the abuse of power, not the verbatim content of the call. I’ll TRY to dumb it down enough.

      The whistleblower DID give the Inspector General at least six names of people who DID know the content. and the related coverup . The Inspector General interviewed them That’s how it works.

      I understand the basis for your ignorance, but Hume’s is downright shameful for his profession.

      Are you ready for the second whistleblower? The one who claims Trump pressured the IRS regarding their audit of his tax returns? Why is he so TERRIFIED of his tax returns? (I know why. They will include proof that he campaigned on a whopping 40% tax cut loophole, for a small number of rich entrepreneurs … and proof that he LIED that his tax cuts increased HIS taxes. He got a 20 tax cut, sucker.)

      1. “It’s about the coverup, the lies and the abuse of power, not the verbatim content of the call. I’ll TRY to dumb it down enough.”

        It’s about TRUMP, for pete’s sake. That’s enough for Hihn, and that’s all that counts.
        Evidence? So what?

      2. “It’s about the coverup”

        Releasing the transcript and the complaint is a terrible cover-up.

        “The whistleblower DID give the Inspector General at least six names of people who DID know the content. ”

        It’s not a long transcript. Why have none of these commented on the parts you believe to be left out?

  15. Someone in government should fabricate claims about every single other candidate for office in the Presidential election, and watch the media ignore it.

    1. I saw Goody Warren with the devil.

      1. An anonymous source told me that he heard Goody Warren say that she would sign the devil’s book.

    2. I heard fourth-hand that Marianne Williamson was caught with a goat and a tub of margarine.

    3. Reason is no different than the rest of the sniveling shills. This is nothing that doesn’t routinely occur in every administration, it’s just that they don’t have to answer such non events. You want to talk about abuse of power? Call Obama for complete details.

      1. Yes, the fault is everyone except for Trump. Every time. Totally not a cult!

        1. “Yes, the fault is everyone except for Trump. Every time. Totally not a cult!”
          Treatment is available; you need it.

          1. You manage to comment so much, yet say so little.

            1. You manage to comment so much and pile up shit higher than the Great Pyramid of Giza.

              1. Go ahead and point out the falsehoods in my comments then. Be sure to source your argument. Facts don’t care about your feelings, and all that.

  16. I am not a Trump supporter but after reading the transcript it seemed more like a conversation to try and get to the bottom of the deep state and prove how crooked the left was during the last administration.

    1. Ding ding ding!

      I read a rumour that the aid Obama/Biden sent to Ukraine went to a shell company in Cypress set up by the company Hunter was appointed to… Regardless of whose political gain profits, I’d like to know if that was true.

    2. This should’ve been Suderman’s article but he can’t get hard unless there’s a Trump scandal

    3. It seems that way to you because you’re not a Team Blue shill.

    4. So why was he freezing the aid to Ukraine? Also, there is nothing there. The investigation into Biden’s son was already closed before they pressed for the attorney general’s removal. The IMF, NATO, and official US policy was that corrupt members of Ukraine’s government had to be removed before they could receive further aid. That prosecutor was specifically called out for removal by the afore mentioned entities. https://www.factcheck.org/2019/09/trump-twists-facts-on-biden-and-ukraine/

      1. FactCheck? You’re citing them with a straight face?

        Next, try out at open mike night at your local comedy club.

        1. I sourced my argument. Factual reports of things that happened. Can you do the same? So far: no.

          1. That “corrupt” prosecutor – the ONLY “corrupt member of Ukraine’s government” that Crazy Uncle Joe singled out – has stated that he hadn’t closed the investigation and was about to interview Crack-head Biden.

  17. Nope, I’m done. Really thought at least one writer would come forward with some sanity in all this, but apparently not. By Reason. You just lost a daily click.

    1. you serious? Nows the fun part, because after realizing this is a place of click bait for liberaltarians you can join in on trolling the morons who write this garbage

    2. Why are you coming to a libertarian site if you want blind devotion to a republican cult leader?

      1. Why are you coming to a libertarian site spewing progtard bullshit?

        1. What have I said that’s progressive? The answer is nothing, unless you take criticism of Trump to be equivalent to progressivism. Sorry, most people see the Trump cult for what it is. This is not your safe space.

          1. Literally every point you try to make is a recited progressive talking point.
            You demonstrate the hive mind, in all its impotent ignominy

  18. I’m going to need a little bit more than “According to the report”, given what we saw with the Steele Dossier, and the long procession of Democratic-goosed fakery and propped up ‘witnesses’ we’ve seen over the last two years.

    1. The media have such a history of misrepresentation and outright lying that we just can’t trust anything Trump says!

    2. whats next is interrigations of anyone loosely connected to Trump in order to get them to contradict what they said years ago in order to criminally punish them and try to pin that on Trump. they have nothing else just like their new claim that the DNI broke the law and thats now enough

    3. I’m going to need a little bit more

      Here ya go, since you’re too lazy to read the public documents (MAYBE 5 minutes for both)

      This is the smoking gun in the transcript … now even worse with the whistleblower report.
      https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-transcript-read-ukraine-president-phone-call-transcript-pdf-released-today-joe-biden-crowdstrike-2019-09-25/

      Zelensky thanked Trump for US military support, which would be used to buy missiles from us … .presumably ignorant that Trump had ILLEGALLY blocked the funding support.

      ZELENSKY:
      I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the the next steps, specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United· States for defense purposes.

      Trump’s immediate response … the bribe. My emphasis. The word “though” cements his intent, along with the timing and context..

      TRUMP:
      I would like you to do us a favor though
      , because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike… I guess you have one of your wealthy people… The server, they say Ukraine has it

      The other thing.here’s a lot of talk about Biden’s son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you ·can look into it..

      Black and white PROOF. Released by TRUMP’S the White House, but, THEY STILL REFUSE TO ACCEPT UNDENIABLE PROOF.

      TWO psycho lies. Biden’s bragging and Crowdstrike.

      Crowdstrike is yet another wacky Trump conspiracy, even crazier than Pizzzagate and Birtherism. Crowdstrike is a MAJOR AMERICAN cyber-security firm, who first discovered that Russians had hacked the DNC server. less than 12 hours after Trump publicly asked Russia to find Hillary’s emails. The FBI later confirmed the Russian … but THAT is part of the Deep State Conspiracy. (wink, wink) Trump NEEDS the lie that Crowdstrike was yet another foreign conspiracy AGAINST him, owned by a wealthy Ukrainian. That Trump mentions it HERE proves … the crazy psycho BELIEVES IT!

      Crowdstrike is an AMERICAN firm, PUBLICLY owned (NASDAQ), headquartered in California, with a major office in the DC area,
      Google it!

      Now you can deny this with some lame alibi, as you just did for the Mueller report.

      1. Repeating it again and again doesn’t make it true, fucko.

  19. An ignorance defense at this juncture would amount to an admission that the best case for Trump is that after more than two years as president, he still has no idea what he’s doing.

    There’s always the insanity defense in addition to the diminished capacity defense. But as I’ve been told with regards to Greta Thunberg, criticizing crazy retards with child-like intellects is punching down and an outrageously outrageous outrage. So what’s your excuse?

  20. I have to admit, if Trump loses the presidency because he was pursuing conspiracy theories with it: there’s a certain irony to that.

    On the other hand, watching democrats who reject most of the BofA declare victory over a “constitutional crisis” is vomit inducing.

    I feel so torn.

    1. “Enjoy the decline!”

    2. Bill of A’ights?

      1. On that one, Republicans are the worst.
        But their puppets wouldn’t understand how and why, being just as bad as the brainwashed Democrat puppets. Left – Right = Zero.

  21. “Essentially, the report describes a cover-up. And you don’t cover up records of activity unless you understand that activity was wrong.”

    Right. It’s not like a member of the US government ever wire tapped his lawyer’s office, using a FISA warrant knowingly obtained with false information, for the purpose of gathering information on him to be used to discredit him during his campaign, and then used to accuse him of being basically a Russian agent and investigated for 2 years. OBVIOUSLY his only concern was that he knew he did something wrong. String that fucker up.

    1. But you do cover up shit when you’re trolling dems. Trump keeps lighting paper bags of it on dem porches, and they stomp stomp stomp every time. Suckers.

      1. or you put things in supper secret enclosure due to the number of false, criminal, leaks claiming to be the truth and hiding behind annominity

        1. Was that pile of turds supposed to make sense, or are you having a seizure?

    2. “Essentially, the report describes a cover-up. And you don’t cover up records of activity unless you understand that activity was wrong.”

      This is the corollary to:
      ‘Why do we need a warrant? If you’re innocent, you have nothing to hide!’

      1. Trump needs to figure out a way put Faucahontas’ “family” crab dip recipe in some sort of classified document that the Democrats will swear is the next smoking gun..

  22. I remember how Nixon’s dead-enders handled it. Some of you guys either studied their failure, or perhaps it just comes naturally.

    Is Trump insecure enough to insist on the helicopter with his name on the side for that final, sad, lonely, disgraced ride?

    1. Glad to see you’re finally on the right side of history, Art. Of course you should have gotten here as soon as the Mueller Report dropped. But better late than never!

    2. Don’t be so proud of Nixon’s departure.

      It led straight to 8 years of Reagan.

      1. The peanut farmer is upset not to get an honorable mention.

        1. Brian seems to also be full of shit on Reagan.

          1. But he will never reach your level.

    3. Ahahahahah I made you use disaffected I fucking own your soul ahahahaahahaj

    4. “I remember how Nixon’s dead-enders handled it. Some of you guys either studied their failure, or perhaps it just comes naturally.”

      Lefty ‘tards are forever posting false equivalences. Our bigoted asshole is among them.

  23. This whole story is fucking ridiculous considering we have the following information that is not disputed by anyone.

    1) Congress controls the purse strings and passed legislation giving aid to the Ukraine the only way this doesn’t actually get there is with the President disregarding this decree.
    2) We know the senate who controls these purse strings sent an official letter asking the Ukrainian president for possible criminal information on Trump.
    3.)Hunter Biden served on a corporate board in Ukraine while Biden was president.
    4) A Ukrainian prosecutor had opened an investigation on said company of which H. Biden was a member.
    5) Joe Biden is on video record bragging about telling the Ukrainian president to fire the above prosecutor or not get millions of dollars.
    6) Trump has one phone conversation with the President of Ukraine where he says “The other thing, There’s a lot of talk about Biden’s son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it… It sounds horrible to me.”

    These are all facts that are accepted as true by everyone and all are documented with either first hand video or official documents. Can someone explain to me how the only part of this story that is highlighted is number 6? Because at best 1-2 are equally bad and 3-4 are far worse.

    1. This leaves 5. Now 5 is tricky because by all accounts the probe had been closed and according to some is irrelevant because other people in the Obama white house and various European allies also wanted it because the prosecutor was allegedly corrupt. Both pieces of evidence are completely irrelevant to whether a criminal probe should take place, which it should as it does nothing to dispel whether or not Biden had corrupt intent. If the probe was dead or the prosecutor paid off to close it Biden could have seen this guy as a problem and wanted to send a message to the Ukrainian President that noone should fuck with his kid. Two just because other people want something done has nothing to do with you why you want it done. At best it’s completely unseemly and totally immoral for Biden to have been the guy sending this message to the Ukrainians. Honestly if a Corporate CEO had done this he’d be in handcuffs as this would be considered bribery regardless of what he said his intent was.

      1. I what they are saying Trump did is wrong and he should be impeached for it fine I accept that. The problem is the Democrats did at the vary least the same thing just months ago. If asking or investigating a political rival is unseemly than why was it not considered unseemly by this publication or worthy of impeachment when the Obama lead executive branch ran a counter intelligence probe complete with FISA warrants and paid foreign national informants to look into whether the Trump Campaign had taken illegal campaign contributions from a foreign source?

      2. “and various European allies also wanted it because the prosecutor was allegedly corrupt.”

        Notably, various corrupt European allies. Because let’s not pretend the people complaining were as clean as the driven snow.

        If we’re to believe the current Ukrainian government, the problem wasn’t so much that the prosecutor was corrupt, as that he was poking his nose where a lot of people didn’t want it poked.

        1. More than likely but you don’t even need that angle to show how absurd this is. It’s also fun to ask people how they could possibly know what noted European allies wanted as I haven’t seen any receipts for that tidbit in all this whataboutism. Also I haven’t seen those same organizations answer any questions about the 100% above board behavior of one H. Biden.

        2. A month earlier, International Monetary Fund managing director Christine Lagarde threatened to withhold $40 billion unless Ukraine undertook “a substantial new effort” to fight corruption after the country’s economic minister and his team resigned to protest government corruption. That same month, a “reform-minded deputy prosecutor resigned, complaining that his efforts to address government corruption had been consistently stymied by his own prosecutor general, Viktor Shokin,” according to a Jan. 3, 2017, Congressional Research Services report.

          Shokin served as prosecutor general under Viktor Yanukovych, the former president of Ukraine who fled to Russia after he was removed from power in 2014 and was later found guilty of treason. Shokin remained in power after Yanukovych’s ouster, but he failed “to indict any major figures from the Yanukovych administration for corruption,” according to testimony John E. Herbst, a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine under President George W. Bush, gave in March 2016 to a subcommittee of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

          “By late fall of 2015, the EU and the United States joined the chorus of those seeking Mr. Shokin’s removal as the start of an overall reform of the Procurator General’s Office,” Herbst testified. “U.S. Vice President Joe Biden spoke publicly about this before and during his December visit to Kyiv; but Mr. Shokin remained in place.”

          In early 2016, Deputy General Prosecutor Vitaliy Kasko resigned in protest of corruption within Shokin’s office. In a televised statement, Kasko said: “Today, the General Prosecutor’s office is a brake on the reform of criminal justice, a hotbed of corruption, an instrument of political pressure, one of the key obstacles to the arrival of foreign investment in Ukraine.”

          https://www.factcheck.org/2019/09/trump-twists-facts-on-biden-and-ukraine/

          1. Turd citing “fact”check as if it means something.

            1. You are welcome to go ahead and post your criticisms of my sources or arguments, but so far you have failed to do so. It is widely accepted that someone who delves into ad hominem has lost the argument. Feel free to post something of substance, child.

            2. “Turd citing “fact”check as if it means something.”

              TrumpTards live in nonfactual fantasyland, and resent the HELL out of those who want to deal with FACTS! OMG, we have arrived at some sort of Hadean torture chamber of unreality! Give up ALL hope, ye who enter here!

      3. You realize that Biden did nothing without Obama’s permission so Obama is just as guilty as Biden and Biden shutting down an investigation is not proof of no wrong doing by those being investigated.

    2. Yes, all 6 of those items are true.
      Here are some other items that are true:
      1. The prosecutor which was “pursuing” the investigation into Bursima, Shokin, was widely perceived as corrupt. That is not just the assessment of the US or Biden, but of the EU, World Bank, IMF, many Ukrainians, etc., people who had no connection whatsoever to Biden or his son.
      2. At the time of Shokin’s firing, the investigation into Bursima was dormant. It’s not like Shokin was on the verge of a big breakthrough that was thwarted by Biden. Shokin was instead sitting on the investigation for years and years.
      3. Giuliani openly bragged about going to Europe, including Ukraine, to try to dig up dirt on Democrats, and had a trip planned for the spring, which he canceled at the last moment.
      4. Trump’s “favors” in the phone call were not broad requests to investigate broad topics, but narrower requests to pursue matters that would benefit him more narrowly. It wasn’t a broad request to look into “meddling in the 2016 election”, but a narrow request to look specifically into the issue of Crowdstrike and the DNC server. It wasn’t a broad request to look into “corruption”, but a narrow request to look into specifically alleged corruption surrounding Bursima and the Bidens.
      5. In the phone call, Trump specifically asked Zelenskyy to meet with Giuliani, which Zelenskyy’s people did about a week later.

      1. This is my problem how is what other people think of the prosecutor in any way materially important to the intent behind what Biden did? All of that could be true and Biden could still have corrupt intent. The point is why isn’t there an open investigation based on the known information or why is asking for one so out of bounds? Also if what Trump did is terrible why isn’t the Democrats asking about a criminal probe equally as terrible? That’s all I’m asking. I’ll accept what Trump is doing as unseemly when other actors who are accusing him of being unseemly don’t also do the same thing. They are all equally bad.

        1. “While Biden was president”

          When? That was listed as 3).

          1. yeah my bad, he was vice president. Think may point still stands though. Sorry bout that.

        2. Don’t ask Jeff he’ll just keep repeating that the prosecutor was corrupt and therefore there is nothing to see here. It’s been his line since Monday.

          1. Shokin is the only corrupt person to have ever corrupted the Ukraine or the EU per jeffrey.

        3. how is what other people think of the prosecutor in any way materially important to the intent behind what Biden did?

          Because it suggests that there exists a credible reason to want Shokin fired that has nothing to do with a corrupt intent.

      2. If its illegal for Giuliani to dick up dirt on democrats then its just as illegal when the democrats did it to Trump with the fake steel dossier. If you want to accept that and lock up everyone involved with that, Hillary, Obama, all of the FBI and CIA then I will be happy for you to lock Up Trump.

  24. “”Trump’s Ukraine Call Was an Abuse of Power—and This Time, He Can’t Claim Ignorance or Inexperience””

    Wow, sounds confident, and certain.

    “”The whistleblower’s account remains anonymous and uncorroborated. We need more firsthand, on-the-record information.””

    Not confident, not certain

    1. You’re right- we should take the guy who lies 1000 times a day at his word huh?

      1. We dont take your word on anything. It’s not just the lies but also the fact you’re second only to Jeff in ignorance.

        1. Third. I’d put the idiot Rev. second.

        1. We do not have a transcript. As is typical, Trump tries to obfuscate and counter accuse, and it clearly is working on some.

          What we have is a collection of notes that is still damning as hell.

      2. “”You’re right- we should take the guy who lies 1000 times a day at his word huh?”‘

        I’m pointing out the inconsistency in the headline with what is in the article. And that’s what you come up with?

      3. “You’re right- we should take the guy who lies 1000 times a day at his word huh?”

        He’s been out of office for some time now; you should try to keep up, you fucking ignoramus.

      4. Just try and find a politician that doesn’t lie

    2. It was corroborated by the Inspector General. That’s how it works.

      1. The same Inspector General that said the whistleblower had a partisan bias, but that fact doesn’t Fit The Narrative. Fuck off.

        1. The same inspector general who deemed the complaint “credible and urgent”. Yes, that one.

          1. The CIA whistleblower. Fuckos like you only believe the CIA when it Advances The Narrative.

  25. Funny how damning the transcript is and that’s not even the half of it. That’s the sanitized version.

    Trump is guilty yet the people here who can’t think for themselves think this is ok. Sad state of affairs.

    1. ASKING ANOTHER FOREIGN LEADER TO LOOK INTO CORRUPTION IS ABUSE OF POWER!!!

      1. That’s not what he did, Slick.

        1. Your delusions are cute. Mind if I cite them in my next research paper?

    2. Nobody thinks this is okay. But if this isn’t okay than literally every president ever should have been impeached and many members of congress should be impeached. Because every president ever has done exactly what happened in this transcript with a foreign power and so have hundreds of congress critters.

      1. I don’t really care. If this is a problem for the president, then the media should be immolating Biden as well. They aren’t even mentioning it. If you want me to care about it, prove it by spiking your boo Biden, you fuckng media hacks.

        And then when you’re done with that, explain why I should care that Trump or any other president put conditions on American aid. You’ll have to be pretty fucking persuasive. Because ” investigate this corruption before you get aid” doesn’t suddenly become a bad idea just because Trump did it.

        1. ” investigate this corruption before you get aid” doesn’t suddenly become a bad idea just because Trump did it.

          That sounds like a good idea, actually, provided that was the will of Congress when Congress approved the aid money.

          Was it?

          1. You can’t say that trump was violating the will of congress for pursuing anti-corruption measures and than excuse Biden’s actions because he was rooting out Ukrainian corruption.

            1. Because it’s effectively the same excuse. You just believe one over the other when both are known liars because you align more with one politically.

            2. If they occurred under identical conditions, then sure.

              1. Translation: Trump is accused of the same thing Biden and Sen. Mendoza actually did do and bragged about. It’s okay for Biden and Sen. Mendoza because of the D after their name.

                1. But Jeff will say that has nothing to do with it. Because he never seems to bad mouth Democrats while goingnoutbofbhis way to bad mouth Trump and all conservatives, every fucking day, usually multiple times in the same thread.

          2. Jeffrey once again shows he doesnt understand the broad delegation Congress has given the executive branch in foreign aid despite being told about this fact daily. Baby jeffrey is an unlearning idiot.

            1. Oh, so please enlighten us all by citing this “broad delegation” Trump has to manipulate the money like he did.

              Oh wait, you can’t? You’re just going to assert something as true and then run away when called on it?

              1. It’s called the Law. Try reading it sometime.

        2. “then the media should be immolating Biden as well. They aren’t even mentioning it. ”

          This is not true.

          They are explicitly endorsing Biden’s actions.

          They have taken the position that any suggestion that Biden took action on behalf of his son’s interests has been “debunked”.

          They scare quote any mention of it with the phrase “without evidence”.

          They are not just ignoring it. They are creating a mythos around it that you have to be a conspiracy theory nut to believe Biden did anything wrong.

          In today’s hearings, Schiff kept framing it as “pressuring a foreign leader to manufacture dirt on a political opponent”.

          So they have quickly moved beyond ignoring it. It is now being pushed as a hoax. One that is the product of treason. So only unpatriotic and treasonous people would even entertain the thought.

          1. It’s kind of hilarious because the best case scenario as laid out by Chemjeff above is the same exact defense Trump would run in an impeachment inquiry if they ever found a quid pro quo but be eviscerated by the very people raising this as a defense for Biden.

          2. Worked lock stock and barrel for benghazi and the mail server. 6 months down the line when proven its all lies, “at this point, what difference does it make?”.

        3. Conditions on the aid that just so happen to benefit Trump campaign and no one else? Trump cannot use my tax dollars to bribe foreign governments to help him get re elected. I did not think this would or should be controversial in a libertarian forum. How very “libertarian” of you to endorse open corruption.

          1. So tell me when and where you complained about Obama interfering with Israel’s elections.

      2. Obama sent his campaign team to Israel to muck in their elections and tapped congressional mail servers to counter pro israel sentiment.

  26. The transcript if anyone wants to read it: https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf

    End of page 3, beginning of page 4. Why isn’t Biden being investigated?

    1. Because he’s on Team Blue.

      1. The only team here is team America. Get on it.

        1. You aren’t on it, fucko.

  27. Just remember Obama shipped billions of dollars on pallets via plane to Iran and Reason cheered. This is the same Iran that kills our troops in Iraq. How was that not treason? But somehow Trump “pressing” for an investigation into corruption is treasonous and punishable by death (per Bill Weld).

    Does Reason really believe all the crap that they spew on a regular basis now?

    1. Reason believes that they are paid for each and every click.
      What more do they need to believe?

  28. Abuse of Power
    Definition: Catching Joe Biden committing treason.

  29. Dr. Julian Bashir : It’s a children’s story, about a young shepherd boy who gets lonely while tending his flock. So he cries out to the villagers that a wolf is attacking the sheep. The people come running, but of course there’s no wolf. He claims that it’s run away and the villagers praise him for his vigilance.

    Elim Garak : Clever lad. Charming story.

    Dr. Julian Bashir : I’m not finished. The next day, the boy does it again, and the next too. And on the fourth day a wolf really comes. The boy cries out at the top of his lungs, but the villagers ignore him, and the boy, and his flock, are gobbled up.

    Elim Garak : Well, that’s a little graphic for children, wouldn’t you say?

    Dr. Julian Bashir : But the point is, if you lie all the time, nobody’s going to believe you, even when you’re telling the truth.

    Elim Garak : Are you sure that’s the point, Doctor?

    Dr. Julian Bashir : Of course. What else could it be?

    Elim Garak : That you should never tell the same lie twice.

    1. That actually is Trump’s insght, just move on from one lie to another.

    2. The Democrats would love to turn the FBI (if they haven’t already) into their own Obsidian Order.
      Just to play out the analogy, who are the Founders in this scenario?

      1. The Tal Shiar is who you should be looking for.

    3. I never realized Garak had a first name (or rather that it wasnt his first/only name)

    4. What a great show

  30. Okay, I get it. You’ve got the Bad Orange Man this time. No other evidence is needed; you’re convinced and you figure everybody else should be too.

    So fucking get on with it. Put out actual articles of impeachment and let’s this thing get tried. If all you’re going to do is just keep circle jerking it for the next twelve months, then shut the hell up.

    1. Well I’m sure it’s part of the Democrats’ strategy to keep this story in the news for as long as possible. Similar to what the Republicans tried to do with Benghazi.

      It does get tiresome to see continual stories about Beltway drama instead of actual stories about more important issues, however.

      1. Well, for damn sure no socialists is going to talk about the economy, or about employment figures among minorities, or energy independence.
        Nope, got to talk about 16 year old puppets and cow farts and un-employing every insurance worker and car manufacturer in the country. That’s the way to political victory. Oh, yeah; and ending the first and second and fourth and fifth amendments.

      2. Orange man bad is the only policy position they have

      3. Because it’s not like people got killed in Benghazi or anything.

      4. “Well I’m sure it’s part of the Democrats’ strategy to keep this story in the news for as long as possible. Similar to what the Republicans tried to do with Benghazi.”

        There’s 2 differences:
        1) Obo and that fucking hag are guilty of “Benghazi”.
        2) Obo and that fucking hag managed to get many people killed with their shenanigans, but to fucking lefty ignoramuses, that’s just breaking eggs for an omelet, you scumbag piece of shit.

      5. Jeff still thinks Benghazi was started from random youtube videos.

        1. Jesse, I think it’s your turn in Hawley’s barrel, IYKWIMAITYD

  31. ” The report goes on to describe not only how Trump pressured Ukraine to investigate Biden, but how “multiple White House officials with direct knowledge of the call” were concerned that Trump used most of the call to “advance his personal interests.”

    After reading the transcripts it appears that “pressured” is now a purely subjective term.

    1. maybe it was the dog whistling terms that no one hears or says but they know are there whether stated or not

  32. Whistle-blower? What whistle-blower?
    All I can find is a pathetic loser with no knowledge, and no name spreading gossip third or fourthhand. Not a single name anywhere. No one is quoting someone who is no one real.
    So far all that has been confirmed is that he/she/it lies.
    To be a whistle-blower a real person with a real name has to have first hand knowledge of an actual crime.
    Russiagate 2.0; nothing to see here, move along.

    1. Gasp! It could even be Steele again!!!

    2. All the pressure during the call was in the form of facial expressions, which the transcript couldn’t capture.

    3. A gossip turns into a “whistle-blower” when the gossip pertains to Trump.
      Very easy…

    4. Hey now. He also quoted various lefty news outlets.

    5. “All I can find is a pathetic loser with no knowledge, and no name spreading gossip third or fourthhand.”

      I once read on twitter that Trump sustains life solely on Gatorade and Hot Pockets. Are you trying to tell me that this information I have become privy to may in fact not be correct?
      Trying to figure out how to block you on here. For some reason that feature is not available to me.

  33. This whole thing sounds bizarre. People are just so dishonest, seemingly dishonest with themselves.

    I keep seeing talking heads say “There is no evidence that Biden attempted to influence Ukraine for the benefit of his son” and then immediately say “Trump is a traitor and should be impeached for asking about the investigation of Biden’s actions”.

    Those two things cannot possibly coexist.

    Anything that Trump is alleged to have done that is being cast as the worst thing ever, the Obama administration did much more explicitly and much worse. And they did it in the exact same frame… to get Trump and for personal enrichment.

    I get a principled “this abuse of power must be stopped” take that leads you to want a special prosecutor for Obama and his administration officials as well as an investigation and impeachment of Trump. That would be a fair and consistent position to take.

    But excusing sending foreign spies into Trump’s campaign while saying that talking to a foreign leader about looking into an investigation that was possibly dropped because of the corrupt actions of a US official is treason? The mental gymnastics required to hold those ideas simultaneously is immense.

    Or do people not realize that HRC actually paid millions of dollars to obtain dirt on Trump from the Russian intelligence service? And that Obama actually spied on the Trump campaign, and even had agents attempting to frame campaign employees for crimes in order to obtain leverage over them? Do people not understand that the Obama administration is actually documented in the Mueller report to have sent a foreign agent to infiltrate the Trump campaign? Leaked classified information in order to undermine the new administration? None of these items are unfounded whistleblower accusations. They are all actually proudly proclaimed by the actors themselves.

    1. “The mental gymnastics required to hold those ideas simultaneously is immense.”

      Your problem is you assume this is an accident or done in good faith. This is purposeful propaganda. Repeat anything enough, in enough places, and it sticks. You see the left do it time and time again. Suderman is not a journalist, he’s a smear merchant for the cathedral.

      1. Beyond the mendacity it is the naked and flagrant double standards when viewed against their response to the serial abuses committed by Obama and Hillary.

        They do not care, and they do not care that you notice, because as far as they are concerned they still get published and they still get paid.

        1. They don’t want to get disinvited from the DC cocktail party circuit.

        2. To first ignore Obama and Hillarys crimes, both of whom are war criminals, and then to ignore the fact that this entire anti-trump narrative was created by the followers of said war criminals.

          They love their cocktail parties.

    2. Jesus…no one sent foreign spies into the Trump campaign other than Trump’s son and Manafort when they agreed to meet with Russian spies who explicitly said that they were representatives of the Russian government and were there to offer assistance to the Trump campaign. It’s not the FBI’s fault that Trump kept hiring people who were under suspicion of being Russian spies. Awfully coincidental that Trump surrounded himself with so many people who are in prison now for traitorous actions.

      1. What the heck are you talking about? This is not debatable any more. It is a matter of public record.

        The Obama administration sent at least the Australian ambassador, a British professor and a couple of FBI agents to infiltrate the Trump campaign.

        The only Russian in the story with respect to the Trump campaign is a Russian attorney who asked for a meeting about orphans. She also claimed to have helpful dish. She didn’t actually offer up any though. Her real claim to fame? She had been working for the same company that Hillary hired to go obtain dirt from the Russian government about Trump.

        I get being partisan, but dang, son!

  34. At best it was crass; at worst a campaign violation.
    Sometimes I think he’s got a cog loose…

    1. Doj already cleared the campaign angle last month.

      1. Professional hatchet man Barr’s DoJ? The same DoJ who refused to turn over the whistle blower complaint to congress, as they are legally obligated to do? Sounds legit.

  35. Trump Derangement Syndrome has hit peak derpitude here at Reason. I am shocked Reason hasn’t adopted the entire Democratic playbook…Hillary actually won and we should be genuflecting to Her Majesty often and continually.

    1. They need to change the name of the site to UnReason because they’ve doubled down on ORANGE MAN BAD more times than a backgammon doubling cube can keep track of.

  36. Truly embarrassing. I’m embarrassed for you. And I am embarrassed I used to come here thinking you had valuable insights.

    Enjoy the click revenue you shill

  37. It’s amazing that so many pundits, writers and politicians who claim to be for criminal justice reform think like this. At the heart of both criminal justice reform as well as instances like this (which I know isn’t a legal issue, yet), is a presumption of innocence. Sadly that very notion seems lost on so much of society today.

    I want presumption of innocence for everyone — including those I disagree with and those I don’t support politically (like Trump). Quaint, I know.

  38. This “it was a coverup because they classified the conversation” thing is a bit nuts.

    If you wanted to do it covertly, you’d just pick up a cell phone and call the guy when nobody was in the room. Or just send Rudy to go talk to the guy in person.

    They clearly think they are doing the right thing at the time, whatever some other dude thought about it.

    1. Hell, given how many of Trump’s early calls to leaders got leaked, I’d lock every call down so tight air couldn’t get out.

    2. It’s like being arrested for resisting arrest

    3. Remember how Hillary had multiple non-secured un-monitored cell phones that she used to call world leaders all the time with. Trump should learn form her instead of letting everyone know what he is doing

  39. One thing the transcript reveals that is being ignored: The Ukrainian president was well aware of the allegations about Biden and said they were already looking in to it.

    I know our focus is on what our guy did, not some other country…. but it is interesting that the president of that country thought it was important enough that he was personally aware of it.

    1. Well, he did threaten to cut off a billion dollars in loan guarantees. For a country like the Ukraine, that’s some serious money. We might not have heard about it here, but it was probably headline news there.

  40. “First, the call, in which the president repeatedly pressed”

    Repeatedly?
    Pressed?

    Two falsehoods in a sentence. New record.

    “Yet that is exactly what the whistleblower complaint about the Ukraine call says that Trump did. ”

    The whistleblower didn’t know what he/she was talking about. I’m shocked Reason hasn’t hired them as a staff writer yet.

    The report goes on to describe not only how Trump pressured Ukraine to investigate Biden, but how “multiple White House officials with direct knowledge of the call” were concerned that Trump used most of the call to “advance his personal interests.”

    We have the transcript and he did not. Cannot imagine why Trump doesn’t have a lot of faith in the IC’s knowledge.

    “A reconstruction”

    How is a real-time transcript a reconstruction? This wasn’t done after the fact.

    “The president reportedly requested that Zelenskiy pursue the Biden investigation with the help of Trump’s personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani.”

    Zelenskiy was the first to bring up Rudy, not Trump.

    “If the whistleblower’s report is accurate”

    The verifiable parts haven’t been.

    1. Yeah, Team Trump put a transcript in a special box so they could be sure it stayed special. God, you fucking TrumpianS are unbelievable.

      1. You leftards will say any fucking thing to advance Team Blue.

        I loathe Trump, I didn’t and won’t vote for him, but fuckwits like you are seriously testing my willpower there.

  41. Ignorance? I thought he’s a stable genius? Anyhow. If he’s not impeached? Just get rid of the US Constitution… then all Demwits & Reptiles alike.

  42. If nothing else, Trump should have learned that attempting to work with a foreign nation in a way that could advance his own political fortunes would be problematic.

    How would he have learned this? In that event both the Obama Administration and Clinton Campaign worked with a foreign nation to advance their political fortunes and paid no price for it.

    1. It’s a case of do as I say, not as I do, coming from Democrats in Congress and the Senate. They don’t want any of this to actually be illegal since it would sweep them up as well. It’s a case of wanting one side to be accountable while leaving the other open to abuse.

      This isn’t a ‘good thing’, it’s the death of a Republic.

      I’m not adverse to investigating Presidents, but it’s hard to ignore that Trump is essentially being held accountable for actions that the previous regime was let off the hook for. Not to mention he’s one of the most investigated modern Presidents and to date nothing has been found in any of those investigations. Not to say there’s nothing to find, but rather nothing has been found.

      That isn’t say to Republicans are ‘good’, but rather it makes Democrats obvious hypocrites. At least with Bill Clinton there was a real and provable crime. Notably, a crime that if it occurred today would have resulted in Clinton being publicly flogged by #MeToo. Even in this example, there’s an example of another person in government from the opposite party doing something worse and provable getting off the hook.

      How is that justice or a limit on Presidential power? If it’s selective, it’s not even in the ballpark of justice.

      1. DEAR SIR: SALUTATIONS AND BLESSINGS FROM GOD. YOUR POST JUST WON SPECIAL ONE-MILLIONTH WHATABOUTISM AWARD FROM SELECT COMMITTEE HERE IN LAGOS. THIS IS A MOST PRESTIGIOUS AND LUCRATIVE AWARD AND TO CLAIM YOU ONLY NEED DEPOSIT CASHIER CHECK IN THE AMOUNT OF $1,345 USD TO MY PAYPAL TO COVER EXPENSE AND FEES. PLEASE REMIT TO ANDULLAH_HAVE_SPECIAL_PRIZE@hushmail.com

        WITH GOD’S BLESSINGS

      2. Trump: Too bad I had to put a hold on that foreign aid. You know, we really could use a favor from you, investigate the leading Dem candidate for my job.

        You: Why is Trump being targeted?!

        1. Don’t you ever get tired of lying?

  43. This entire piece is quite a fairy tale. An anonymous whistleblower hearing things second hand is not evidence. Unnamed sources we cannot identify hear things we cannot confirm are not witnesses. Nope sorry this is politics as usual with all the pearl clutching that comes with it. We are shocked SHOCKED to find out politicians are digging up dirt on their opponents.

  44. Did Congress approve Obama giving Iran a pallet of cash? Last I checked, he did not. This isn’t whataboutism, it’s just interesting to note that Democrats didn’t care about Congressional oversight yesterday when they controlled the Executive.

    1. THERE’S NO PRIZE FOR 1,000,001. SORRY. MAYBE YOU QUALIFY FOR SPECIAL 2,000,000 PRIZE!?!

    2. There are few things as curious as faux outrage.

      Normally, if you are outraged about something, the existence of evidence that you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about would be a salve to some degree. Yet you persist in not knowing what the fuck you’re talking about and being outraged over something that wasn’t wrong.

  45. After all the millions of dollars spent investigating Trump, the hundreds of leaks from “anonymous sources close to” to anyone with a keyboard who would listen and this is the best the Democrats can come up with to impeach him on? Yeah????

    Personally I think the worst thing for the Democrats would be if Trump was removed from office. After the past 2+ years they have nothing to run on other than “Trump bad” and have basically turned the entire political stage into the deranged Democrats vs bat sh** crazy Trump show.

  46. Democrats are bad news man.

  47. But the whistleblower saw Kavanaugh walking around naked while friends led him around by his swinging *D43k* at a crowded party. Sorry man, I had last few weeks NYT in front of me. Apparently, this weeks whistleblower is worthy of the fourth estate’s esteem.

  48. I don’t have any problem with the current regime looking into the corruption of the previous regime as Trump is doing with Biden. Every President and his prosecutors should be doing this. It will bring us justice and be a warning to those in power that they will have to answer down the line.

    Presidential candidates should especially answer for their crimes during past service. Biden should be examined with regards to his son’s favoritism. Harris, for her prosecutorial excess. Booker for his malfeasance given Newarks undrinkable water. Etc.

  49. The transcript doesn’t contain any “pressuring”, nor anything “repeated”. The Ukrainian PM said he wasn’t pressured. Trump didn’t take any subsequent actions that amount to pressure.

    If Trump doesn’t accomplish anything else in his presidency, just exposing the stupidity, incompetence, and partisanship of reporters and the media is going to be a good legacy.

    Suderman and Reason: do us all a favor and stop sullying the “libertarian” brand with your contemptible conduct.

  50. If nothing else, Trump should have learned that attempting to work with a foreign nation in a way that could advance his own political fortunes would be problematic

    An investigation of Biden only advances Trump’s political fortunes if it actually yields a result, otherwise it’s between useless and potentially very damaging.

    Furthermore, so far, this doesn’t seem to be hurting him because the Democrats and journalists that are pushing this b.s. are coming across as batshit crazy.

  51. Maybe all good points, but the corruption horse left the damn barn years ago. This sort of scrutiny and repercussions will never be applied to the Democrats. They simply live by and are treated to differing standards of conduct.

    Frankly, I feel a little like Finland during WW2. I have to buy guns & ammo from the Nazi’s to keep the Soviets at bay. Or maybe a better analogy would be Ukrainian partisans, getting guns from the Soviets to fight the Nazi’s. take your pick. But in either case, I wouldn’t unilaterally disarm.

  52. By Marc A. Thiessen, WaPo, September 24
    “…in May, CNN reported that Sens. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.), Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.) and Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.) wrote a letter to Ukraine’s prosecutor general, Yuriy Lutsenko, expressing concern at the closing of four investigations they said were critical to the Mueller probe. In the letter, they implied that their support for U.S. assistance to Ukraine was at stake. Describing themselves as “strong advocates for a robust and close relationship with Ukraine,” the Democratic senators declared, “We have supported [the] capacity-building process and are disappointed that some in Kyiv appear to have cast aside these [democratic] principles to avoid the ire of President Trump,” before demanding Lutsenko “reverse course and halt any efforts to impede cooperation with this important investigation.”

    So, it’s okay for Democratic senators to encourage Ukraine to investigate Trump, but it’s not okay for the president to allegedly encourage Ukraine to investigate Hunter Biden?”

    Marc, I think we all know the answer to that question.

  53. Silly leftists! This shows you guys never use your brains! Let’s say Trump gets impeached and removed from office… Vice President Mike Pence will be sworn in the next day… Mike Pence will continue the excellent economical record of the Trump administration without any scandals! The guy is pretty much squeaky clean! The only thing the left has on him is the controversial religious rights law he signed here in Indiana. He will run against one of your idiots and have a better chance of winning than Trump… even though Trump still has a really good chance of winning if he’s not removed. Then you will have to run against an incumbent again in 4 years! You guys aren’t too smart are you?

  54. I am voting for Trump in 2020 so he can contact more governments to investigate and prosecute corrupt Americans committing crimes (like Hunter and Joe Biden) in other countries.

  55. Wow… what a weak case. I hate Trump, but reading this article pushed me more on Trump’s side; good job.

    Can’t we just impeach him for an ACTUAL abuse of power? Like declaring a false emergency on the border to grab emergency powers? Anyone remember that? No? We only care about the quality of ICE facilities and not the terrifying things the government can do during “emergencies” that they don’t need to justify, I guess. I suppose if the Dems did impeach him for that, then they’d fear they couldn’t declare some bogus emergency over climate change or student debt to force a ton of regulations which mysteriously have very little to do with climate change or student debt.

    1. How about we thrown Hillary, Obama, and Bush in jail for their abuses of power and violations of the Constitution while in office first?

      Personally, I find the slaughter of thousands of innocent civilians to be far more disturbing than Trump misusing funds for a border wall.

      1. Agreed. I wouldn’t mind seeing every president get scrutinized like Trump is. Most wouldn’t hold up to it, and maybe that will chase the scum away from wanting the job.

  56. The complaint opens by alleging that the still-anonymous author, who worked in the U.S. intelligence community, has received “information from multiple U.S. Government officials that the President of the United States is using the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country in the 2020 election.” M

    Does not even rise to probable cause.

    and even if all the allegations are true, how is it wrong?

  57. Ignorant, Trump-hating garbage like this is exactly why I no longer support this UnREASONable, fascist piece of shit by subscribing to its print edition.

    You turds have devolved to the cesspool level of CNN — aka, Communist News Network.

  58. Peter Suderman should be fired. There’s nothing criminal or impeachable in the call made to the Ukrainian President. What Biden did is criminal. I’m not a Trump supporter, but this is just more of the vapid Left going nuts over nothing while ignoring the crimes of the Obama Administration.

    Fire Peter Suderman.

  59. Whistleblower? He wasn’t a whistleblower. He reported what a friends of a friend, and a friend of a friend of a friend, had told him. That ain’t whistleblowing, my friends.

  60. “If nothing else, Trump should have learned that attempting to work with a foreign nation in a way that could advance his own political fortunes would be problematic. ”

    Conducting foreign policy in a way that might encourage voters to vote for you is now an impeachable offense. If you’re Orange.

    Reason is so idiotic these days.

  61. Yet that is exactly what the whistleblower complaint about the Ukraine call says that Trump did.

    Exactly. That’s what a biased anti-Trump “whistleblower” says that Trump did — while offering nothing but rumor and inuendo to support the allegation. Yet you present it as fact. Doesn’t your inability to accurately report the facts bother you? Maybe just a little?

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