Immigration

Workplace Immigration Raids Prove America Is Still Land of Opportunity

ICE has already released 300 of 680 detainees, some on "humanitarian grounds."

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Welcome to full-employment America, where agents of Immigration Customs and Enforcement (ICE) are courageously arresting illegal immigrants at their workplaces for the unpardonable sin of processing the chicken that the rest of us eat.

For God's sake, don't be moved by stories of kindergarteners crying while watching their parents get hauled away. We are either a nation of laws and borders or we cease to exist (to borrow a phrase from Charles Manson). This is about the rule of law, plain and simple, or maybe it's about our "sovereignty," but either way Donald Trump was elected by fully 46 percent of voters promising to deport illegal immigrants. Elections have consequences, and if you let foreign-born line-jumpers work in food-processing plants, we're just one step away from letting murder be legal. What part of legal immigration don't you understand? These are invaders, race-mixers, "bad hombres," probably drug dealers and rapists, and what kind of parent breaks the law so flagrantly, thus putting their kids at risk by leaving their shithole countries to do work that legal residents eschew? The very worst parents, moral defectives who refuse to abide the God-given rules about immigration that only terrible presidents such as Ronald Reagan dare to sweep aside, like some furshlugginer Prometheus.

We can only shudder when we recall Dutch's response in a 1980 debate with another sickening Republican appeaser, George H.W. Bush:

Rather than talking about putting up a fence, why don't we work out some recognition of our mutual problems? Make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit, and then, while they're working and earning here, they'd pay taxes here. And when they want to go back, they can go back. They can cross. Open the borders both ways.

Besides, ICE has already released 300 of the 680 detainees, some on "humanitarian grounds," so if anything the whole operation really proves what a welcoming, kind country America really is. It's not like the business owners, such as Koch Foods CEO Joseph Grendys (net worth: $2.5 billion), will get jailed or fined, even if his company will lose "millions of dollars in a week's time" simply from the disruption caused by the raid. In fact, we're such a kind and generous country, charities are already springing up to help the people arrested by ICE.

Those libertarians and Koch brothers types who are in favor of letting more people come here legally keep forgetting that immigrants who come here illegally from Spanish-speaking countries will, once granted citizenship, vote against politicians who tried to deport them. And you can't have open borders and a welfare state, so in the name of limited government and conservative values, we've got to say adios to immigrants, especially the illegal ones, who are already barred from receiving most forms of welfare and are at a 10-year low, so we won't miss them anyway, except in industries such as dairy farming, but a 90 percent increase in milk prices would be a small price to pay when you think about it even for a minute.

America is already 34th among the 50th richest countries in terms of share of foreign-born residents (both legal and unauthorized). Between 2015 and 2017, we let in five immigrants (legal and unauthorized) per 1,000 residents. And even though a record-high 75 percent of us agree that "immigration is a good thing," we risk becoming like Canada (which let in eight immigrants per 1,000 people) and Australia (14 per 1,000) if we don't keep raiding chicken plants in Mississippi. Who would want to explain that to our grandchildren?

 

 

 

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  1. don’t be moved by stories of kindergarteners crying while watching their parents get hauled away

    Was it bring your child to work day at the chicken plant?

    1. I bet they processed eggs too.

    2. The Sex Trafficking claims are all bullshit.

      People are not trafficking underage kids, we are all eating them as they are packaged as “chicken”.

  2. you can’t have open borders and a welfare state

    It always seems a little weird to see libertarians implying that welfare is fine.

    1. It becomes more understandable once you realize that Reason isn’t run by libertarians anymore.

      1. Your comment becomes more understandable once one realizes that most people who now call themselves libertarian…aren’t.

        1. Do you mean most of the commenters?

          1. I’m not sure if it’s limited to this commentariate anymore.

            1. And Eric

      2. “you can’t have open borders and a welfare state”

        You can’t survive as a nation without sovereign borders and citizenship.

        1. You can;t survive as a government without violence enforcing senseless laws because Law And Order.

          1. That’s true. But there will also always be people who are unhappy about having their stuff taken away and given to others. And it really doesn’t matter who those others are or where they came from.

            Not as much =/= none

    2. Yeah, nobody is saying that except ex-libertarian Will Wilkinson.

  3. “For God’s sake, don’t be moved by stories of kindergarteners crying while watching their parents get hauled away.”

    OK.

    Now where is my monacle.

  4. “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,[a] against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized”

    So, the ICE warrant said what exactly? Place to be searched: Chicken plant. Persons to be seized: EVERYBODY.

    1. The progressives hate the 2nd amendment, the conservatives hate the 4th amendment, and both sides hate the 1st amendment.

      1. If the Bill of Rights were put to an up-or-down vote in this country, it would be voted down by a wide margin. Liberty has always been an unpopular idea imposed on the majority by elites.

      2. Pretty sure progressives hate the 4th amendment, most recently red flag laws. Less recently, “all accusers must be believed,” pursuit of president’s tax returns, massive NSA expansion, spying on journalists, and so on.

        1. Most recent nadler and the special council. Liberals dont give a flying fuck about you being secure from general warrants.

  5. If Democrats wail that Trump is not above the law, why do they think unlawful immigrants are?

    1. For the same reason that libertarians wail that LEOs shouldn’t be above the law. Those who seek and are granted power by a society should be held to higher expectations.

      1. They didn’t build that.

      2. Eric, your answer makes no sense. Which is to be expected.

          1. That might be but your answer does not make sense.

            1. I don’t love you LC. You try too hard around here.

              1. Libertarianism is a bitch like that.

                Always having to advocate for less government and more rights.

                  1. We get it. You hate less government and more protections of rights.

    2. Same thing goes for medical marijuana patients. No one is above the law. Lock ’em up, amirite?

    3. Because Trump is “white”. Duh. Try to keep up.

      1. I thought he was orange.

        1. Orange is the new white.

  6. We need to do a better job of exporting our values to other countries so they don’t have to flee in the first place. (And if you don’t think our values are worth exporting then go back to where you came from, as Trump would say.)

    1. How very neo-con of you, or would you fancy yourself a liberal-interventionalist?

      1. I fancy you a…….wait, I don’t fancy you at all. Probably because you’re an obtuse progtard.

        1. I must try harder to get your fancy my shitty friend. Maybe a finger…or two?

        2. I support fining employers that hire workers illegally. If a raid happens, workers will be arrested. The question is if the plant offered slightly higher wages could they get Americans to do the work? If not, the issue is an inflexible immigration system. If slightly higher wages/better working conditions would bring out American applicants then that is what needs to happen.

    2. One size does not fit all. Just because we (Americans) like it here, does NOT mean that everyone should be like us. My god, we are at each others’ throats as it is. Our arrogant of you (USA) to assume that everyone should be like us. We need to leave other countries to live as they please … no matter how much it may offend us. I do believe that we should help our neighbors (any country, really) to live up to what they can be, but it does not have to look like the USA.

  7. Look at Nick here with his sarcasm, taking jobs away from half the hard-working commentariat. What kind of surname is Gillespie, anyways? That’s gotta be at least as Hispanic as O’Rourke.

    1. He got me – I was wondering if reason had been hacked as I agreed with point after solemn point – all the way up to the Bush Sr quote.

      “Fool,” I thought in self-admonishment – having been tricked again. “Isn’t libertarianism about eschewing personal responsibility and private property for the collective moral good?”

      Add Nick to the necklace of corpses hanging round our neck.

  8. A snarky guilt trip! How refreshing and original!

    And it’s working so well! Don’t change a thing.

    Haha

  9. For God’s sake, don’t be moved by stories of kindergarteners crying while watching their parents get hauled away.

    In Libertopia, anybody who can find a crying kindergartner to pose for the teevee will not be arrested for anything. Don’t repeal laws. Shit, don’t bother with the judiciary overturning them. Just turn law enforcement decisions over to kindergartners. If they cry, don’t enforce the law.

  10. don’t be moved by stories of kindergarteners crying

    No problem. Now, go fuck yourself, Nick.

    1. But think of the children!

      1. “Don’t think of the children.”

        –The only way conservatism, Randianism, and libertarianism manage to crawl their way to any detectable amount of relevance.

        (Also, don’t think about old people.)

        1. I think you’re missing the point about libertarianism. “Don’t think of the children” is about not being manipulated (I can’t believe I actually have to say this.) You’re “old people” remark is also a manipulation. The point there is that it should be the responsibility of the family of those older people to take care of them, instead of the state.

          1. So people born to poor parents, or the parents of poor children, are shit out of luck.

            That’s what you just said.

            So that’s why people take a different view of the role of the commons. Because a safety net is better than rampant death and squalor. Sorry if it offends some nonsense philosophy shat out by a Russian hag.

  11. America is already 34th among the 50th richest countries in terms of share of foreign-born residents (both legal and unauthorized). Between 2015 and 2017, we let in five immigrants (legal and unauthorized) per 1,000 residents. And even though a record-high 75 percent of us agree that “immigration is a good thing,” we risk becoming like Canada (which let in eight immigrants per 1,000 people) and Australia (14 per 1,000) if we don’t keep raiding chicken plants in Mississippi. Who would want to explain that to our grandchildren?

    Because, after the decades have gone by letting just a few per thousand in, several hundred of those 1,000 are then born in America with *gasp* brown skin, and we can’t have that, Nick. There are people here who probably think there’s no way American kids with darker skin could value things like freedom of speech, press, etc.

    1. Stop quoting biden.

  12. I’m up for releasing all the illegals and fining the chicken plant $250k for everyone of them employed there. That suit Nick. Oh, and another such raid next summer.

    1. What ever happened to freedom of association?

      1. What ever happened to being bright enough to realize that defending our national sovereignty is necessary to our having freedom of anything?

        1. Where’d that “our” come from? I don’t recall giving anybody permission to mind my business, or to steal taxes from me to do so.

          1. Where’d that “our” come from?

            From a place called “reality”. You should visit sometime. Life can be difficult there, but there are rewards also.

            1. Slavery was reality. Jim Crow was reality. Affirmative racism is reality. Soviet famines, Mao’s famines, Hitler’s holocaust, those all had legal trappings. Where do you draw the line?

              1. That’s too complex a question to answer in a message board post. I’ll just say I would draw the line somewhere to the right of anarchy.

              2. At the Rio Grande among other places

          2. Your business? Your business is subversion and Marxism. So fuck off.

        2. So you don’t believe in freedom of association, then. Fine. Bake that cake!

          1. I believe we live in a real world in which compromises need to be made, not in a simplified simulation in which it’s safe and wise to be rigidly principled.

            1. As long as everyone else is doing the compromising.

          2. You can associate with anyone who’ll tolerate you, and some who’d rather not, eunuch.
            You simply don’t get to force everybody else in the country to associate with them too.

            1. That makes no sense whatsoever. Which is not surprising, coming from a dumdum like you.

      2. We haven’t had freedom of association since the Civil Rights Act.

        1. At the time the original federal Civil Rights Act was passed, it was recognized that it was an infringement against freedom of association, and so the types of businesses and services recognized as “public accommodations” were very limited to minimize the infringement. Unfortunately, since then state civil rights laws and case law have greatly expanded the definition of public accommodation, to the point were almost all businesses open to the public are covered and the infringement has become much more severe.

          1. You’re making the case for anarchism by pointing out that limited government NEVER remains limited, and laws that sounded so reasonable at first ended up as another enforcement boondoggle or political weapon.

            1. Ach, nein, he’d never compromise in THAT direction.

            2. Yes, that is an argument for anarchism. I don’t agree that government mission creep is inevitable or that reform of laws is impossible. Repealing or modifying bad laws in order to increase freedom is difficult, but it does happen. Just look at the recent progress on marijuana laws and cash bail.

              1. I have yet to see a single case of marijuana legalization in this country that didn’t involve the creation of a whole new bureaucracy for the purpose of regulatory compliance and enforcement on top of the preexisting bureaucracy put in place for the enforcement of the previous laws. Not to mention all of onerous licensing laws (depending on the state) that have drawn yet more crony-corporate rent seekers like moths to a flame. Your example of “reform” is actually just another example of the inevitable growth of the state.

      3. “What ever happened to freedom of association?”

        The Civil Rights Laws of the 1960s and every court case with race baiters and grievance monger plaintiffs since then.

        That’s what happened.

  13. I don’t have a problem with immigration. I have a huge problem with welfare expansion and cronyism that revolves and grows around open borders immigration, including growing the federal government welfare state, SJW social scientist grants, court systems and expansion of public school english language immersion, public transportation boondoggles. I have a big problem with communists, although I realize that Reason is the same rag that thinks Hong Kong has more freedom than the U.S, so there’s that.

    1. Mass immigration entails further erosion of Anglo American liberty in America, which is an extreme minority preference in the world.

      Countries are people.

      Mass immigration plus democracy without assimilation is invasion and subjugation.

  14. That time of the month again?

    I would take Nick’s pro immigration stance more seriously if it was devoid of any emotional appeals and based on the rights of property owners. Hans Hoppe figured out the libertarian answer to immigration a long time ago.

    1. I’d take the stance more seriously if he’d take in, feed, clothe, house, provide medical care to, and give a monthly stipend to a coupe of dozen Guatemalan gang members. It’s when he asks me to pony up where I tell him to shit in his hat.

  15. I guess OBL’s needling struck a nerve!

  16. A nice refreshing rant. Thank you, Mr G.

  17. And you can’t have open borders and a welfare state, so in the name of limited government and conservative values, we’ve got to say adios to immigrants, especially the illegal ones, who are already barred from receiving most forms of welfare and are at a 10-year low, so we won’t miss them anyway

    Government spending is much more than welfare; it includes schooling, roads, housing, etc.

    But more pernicious are the other effects of low skilled illegal migrants. First, they display low skilled Americans, and it is those Americans that then go on welfare. Second, they also prevent companies from making the capital investments to work efficiently in a high labor cost environment.

    Yes, you can run an empire on low skill, low cost slave labor. The Egyptians and Romans showed us that. But what made America and Europe prosperous was adopting technology to deal with a shortage of cheap labor.

    1. “what made America and Europe prosperous was adopting technology to deal with a shortage of cheap labor.”

      I never though of black africans as ‘adopting technology.’ Once we did, aka the cotton gin, the demand for slave labor actually went up.

      1. I live in the rust belt. What made America prosperous here was Ellis Island. When the factories were churning out steel and manufactured goods immigrants came in droves to fill the jobs.

        1. What made America prosperous was the great advances in manufacturing driven by a shortage of labor. The immigrants that that shortage of labor and wealth attracted were an effect, not a cause.

      2. I never though of black africans as ‘adopting technology.’ Once we did, aka the cotton gin, the demand for slave labor actually went up.

        I didn’t say that the adoption of technology per se makes a country wealthier, I said that “adopting technology to deal with a shortage of cheap labor” did.

        And the US example illustrates that: the South kept slavery and remained economically far behind the North.

    2. The poultry processing industry has a chronic labor shortage. It is a hard job, high risk of injury and doesn’t pay very well. That is why the employers take the risk. These workers are not displacing anyone.

      Before we jump to the conclusion that they are depressing wages keep in mind that it is a highly competitive industry. If labor costs go up the next step will be increasing prices and increasing imports as well as moving operations offshore as happens in other industries. This has a ripple effect as farmers and others in the chain are hurt in the process.

      Don’t forget these people are working and paying taxes so there is no argument that they are a drain on the economy or welfare state any more than a native born person would be.

      The argument that it would take people off welfare also does not hold water. There are openings every day at the processing plants even with these workers. If someone on welfare wanted this job they could get one tomorrow.

      1. “Let’s destroy America for some cheap chicken!”

        1. Chicken is pretty much the one thing we can all agree on.

          They are opening a chick-fil-a couple miles from here. This makes me very happy.

      2. I would be happy to pay a dollar or two more for a chicken if that meant the processors did not have to exploit foreign workers.

        1. They are paid the same as the American workers at the plant. It is not exploitation.

          1. The conditions and compensation are such that very few Americans will take the jobs. They can operate in that manner only because foreign workers are available who are pliant due to their illegal status. That is exploitation.

            1. That is because of market forces. As I indicated at a certain point the chicken factory will just outsource or relocate overseas as happened with other industries or chick-fil-a will import chicken.

              1. Yes, and the part you don’t seem to understand is that we want unproductive, low paying, low skilled jobs to move out of the country. That is low-skilled workers from poor countries shouldn’t come to the US to take on dangerous, low-skilled jobs at low wages because that is a drag on the US economy. It would be far better if they took those jobs on in other countries where those jobs are actually (comparatively) well paying so that they can improve the economy of those countries.

            2. Yes, and the compensation and conditions are so poor because illegal aliens are willing to work in such conditions. That is why employers like them, and that is why it is so wrong that we allow this to go on.

          2. “They are paid the same as the American workers at the plant.”

            Were they, though? I’ve heard that illegals often get paid around 12 bucks at these plants. If they were paid legal wages in cash, they would be spared from FICA.

            Americans actually work in these plants. They bottle sauces, assemble frozen pies that come down assembly lines, and drive those fork lift vehicles that transport heavy material. Maybe working with raw meat is off putting to some, but I doubt this is “jobs that Americans don’t want”. Are there no black and white Americans in Tyson plants?

        2. The exploitation actually happens when you restrict the ability of people to find other kinds of work. Say that the person from Guatemala is a very talented hairdresser. She can’t get a license to do that because of lack of documentation. So she works at the chicken factory because they don’t care.

        3. Think of another consequence. People eat a lot of chicken because it is delicious and relatively inexpensive. It costs $2 more to get the seafood fried rice which I like even better at the Chinese takeout. When the price is the same I will get the seafood fried rice.

          1. We save on food cost when illegals provide cheap labor (against the law). That will be ultimately offset by the amount of money the taxpayers have to pay to prop these people up. The democrats want to give 11 million illegals free healthcare. The math won’t be pretty.

            Why doesn’t Canada just let in 5 million people from Mexico and let them work for farms and companies for less than their minimum wage? Trudeau could tell their citizens “Don’t complain, these people will do jobs you won’t do anyways”. That would never happen.

            Most countries will use guest worker programs to fill jobs locals won’t do. I (unlike Trump and the union) have no problem with this arrangement. America is uniquely conducive to (illegal) immigration for wide range of reasons – lax enforcement, tighter due process rights, no language proficiency requirement for citizenship, education and healthcare for illegals, elite backed political party that panders to immigrants, entrenched ethnic zones where it’s possible to exist without speaking English, etc.

            Immigrants are just human beings from the outside, they have no magic power to build nations or turn them into superpower. America is the HQ of the global market and there would be a pipeline between immigrants and economy from their homeland and elsewhere. We have things to offer to immigrants. It’s kinda silly to think that if 20 million Mexicans moved to China, that place would be 20% richer.

      3. If labor costs go up the next step will be increasing prices and increasing imports as well as moving operations offshore as happens in other industries. This has a ripple effect as farmers and others in the chain are hurt in the process.

        You got it backwards. Moving low wage, low skill jobs offshore is precisely how countries become wealthy. If you keep those jobs in the country, necessarily average wages and average wealth go down.

        Don’t forget these people are working and paying taxes so there is no argument that they are a drain on the economy or welfare state any more than a native born person would be.

        They are lower skilled and less productive than the native population, hence pay less in taxes on average. In fact, they are almost all far below median income and pay almost no income tax even if they comply with tax laws.

        So, they are not a “drain on the economy”, but they are a “drain on the government budget”, and they “drag down the economy”, making America poorer on average, even though, of course, in absolute terms, they increase GDP slightly.

  18. 46 percent of voters

    Which is bout 26 percent of the adult population. Pretty much all politicians are elected by a small minority of those who are of voting age.

  19. Don’t cry for dead Americans. Cry for Mexicans and Guatemalans who have the privilege of enjoying America and sending money home to their families.

    Do you morons even check the optics before posting this trash? Stop putting US citizens second.

    1. They reject the concept of citizenship.

      1. You reject the concept of principles and ideals.

        1. No, I accept them as concepts. I reject them as dogma.

        2. You mean principles such as the rule of law, self-determination, and government for the people and by the people? Yes, the pro-open-borders crowd rejects such principles.

    2. #AmericansLast

  20. Pick One:

    [ ] Borders
    [ ] Liberty

    1. Pick one:

      [ ] Childish black-and-white thinking.
      [ ] Adult reasoning based on facts and logic that recognizes real     consequences in the real world.

      1. So what is the difference, then, between your “adult reasoning”, and simple utilitarianism?

        1. I was thinking of the same question. The old dilemma is that even in a utilitarian approach it is difficult to determine what constitutes a good outcome. That is really the crux of the debate here.

          The other old dilemma is that a utilitarian or consequentialist approach does not take into consideration ideals such as liberty or justice.

          But it is a very old debate. It really shows itself in this whole immigration thing as to how people reason it out.

        2. Utilitarianism is another philosophical abstraction like “liberty” that might serve as a guide to behavior or public policy, but that reasoning adults would not follow dogmatically as if it were the Word of God. The meaning of “adult reasoning” is self-evident. Consult a dictionary if you’re confused about it.

          1. I think what you are getting at is that people use a combination of reasoning patterns in moral thought. That is pretty well described as a mix of deontology, utilitarian, and consequentialist thought. People will weigh more heavily into one or the other. Libertarians highly value natural rights for example and will accept negative consequences for that.

            My tendency when I see an action that results in both good and bad outcomes and difficult to resolve is to revert to principles, deontological if you will, to arrive at an opinion on the matter.

    2. Can’t have Liberty without borders.

      1. Can’t have liberty with infringements upon that liberty represented by restrictionist immigration policies.

        1. That’s right—here in the Real World in which we must live, we can’t have completely uninfringed liberty. The best we can do is to make compromises that allow us to retain as much liberty as possible in a world situation that is hostile to liberty. One such compromise is the vital need to control entry at out borders.

        2. “If you won’t play with me you’re infringing on my rights!”

  21. #MAGA

    Borders and Liberty!

    Not absolute Liberty but the USA has never had that because the Founders gave up some absolute rights to provide for the Common Defense.

  22. “and you can’t have open borders and a welfare state”. Well, we do have a welfare state and you do want open borders. One doesn’t have to search far, or more than one minute on the web to find dozens, if not hundreds, of posts proposing an ever growing and expansion of welfare for illegal migrants, including the Democrat debates, as every candidate wants free healthcare or medicaid for illegals. Reason can’t stand the fact that most Americans, now Hong Kongers, more and more europeans and brits don’t want to be cogs in a centrally planned welfare crony state of the global economy.
    https://www.wypr.org/post/us-born-children-undocumented-immigrants-increasingly-denied-snap-benefitshttps://www.citylab.com/equity/2019/05/hud-immigrant-housing-assistance-trump-plan-homeless-kids/589225/

    1. If my links do not work, you can search on the title.

    2. You can’t have open borders and a *free* state.

      Countries are people. Countries are the way they are because of what people in those countries do, and they do what they do because of what what they believe.

      Free societies are free because the people in them have values that produce that freedom.

      1. So the Soviet Union wasn’t a free society because the Soviet citizens wanted to be oppressed by the KGB and approved of being sent to the gulags.

        Is that your position?

        1. There is in fact a great deal of nostalgia in Russia for the Soviet Union.

        2. People wanted their *neighbors* sent to the gulag. In the case of the Soviet Union, it was the Kulaks.

          Of course it’s possible and often the case for some minority to dominate the majority and impose a system on the majority, but that gets less credible when you’re talking about nominally democratic countries.

          But the security, prosperity, and freedom of Anglo American societies are the historical exception, not the rule, as are the *beliefs* taht create that security, prosperity, and freedom. This isn’t a *guess*. We have the *data*.

          Q: You want bigger or smaller government?
          A: Much bigger!

          racebaiterjeff still can’t quite figure out that libertarian values are not universal, and that the people who live in a place are the ones who make it the way it is.

  23. Oh yes, let’s have lots more illegal leafblowing “gardeners” in uninsured pickup trucks. All you libertarians get busy growing your lawns.

    This post not approved by Silicon Valley brain slugs.

  24. Lets face facts here. ICE picked up 600 workers and the company will have to hire another 600 workers to keep up production. In all likelihood the next 600 workers will also be undocumented. Many will be the same workers with different names on the paperwork. The companies (with 2 billion plus assets) will pay a small fine and will make political contributions. This is Mississippi so the contribution are going to Trump and the RNC. So in a couple of weeks the world will be back to normal. The undocumented workers will be plucking chickens, the public will have cheap chicken tenders, the company will make money, and President Trump will be yelling about the border.

    1. Rome wasn’t built in a day.

      Increase the costs of illegal immigration, get less of it.

  25. “We can only shudder when we recall Dutch’s response in a 1980 debate with another sickening Republican appeaser, George H.W. Bush:”

    Dutch was duped into amnesty now and enforcement later that never came. Instead of enforcement, we got an expanded invasion.

    Reagan’s 1986 amnesty and *reward* of illegal aliens for breaking US immigration law is the biggest black mark on his presidency.

    1. That spike happened because the Mexican economy was tanking and there was no work. That has stabilized now and there are decent jobs to be had there. As you know there are far fewer coming from Mexico. More from Central America now due to horrible violence and government.

      1. It was because the US was more secure, prosperous, and free than Latin America, *even for illegals*, and because *we allowed it to happen*.

        Countries go up and down. There is a world of shithole countries much worse off than the US.

        No borders means the US becomes more like those shithole countries.

        Countries are people. Shithole countries are shithole countries because of the beliefs and actions of the people who live in them. When those people migrate here, they bring those beliefs and actions with them.

        The freedom we have is the exception, not the rule.
        Import Not Americans, become Not America.

  26. Back in the days of draft dodging into Canada, I could have just wandered across the boundary and “forgotten” to head back south.
    I chose not to. I investigated the process, learned where and how to apply, and did so. The process took more than a year. I finally got my “Pink Slip” and headed north with all my worldly possessions.
    One thing I was plainly told: if I were to end up on public assistance any time within two full years of my formal arrival, I’d be deported back to the US. This could, and did, happen to some. The provincial socialised medical care was actually an insurance plan, everyone legally residing in the proivince could apply and pay the monthly premium. I think I had one medical issue in the entire five years I was there. Same with car insurance…. government programme, pay the outrageous montlhy premium or they cancel your number plate, because the number on that piece of aluminium IS the insurance policy. I had one claim for my vehicle seriously vandalised. They refused to pay it Gave no reason for it. I challenged, they said go away.

    No free rides, one ad to work, or find a way to live on nothing. Any new immigrant ending up on any form of public assistince within two years lf “landing” was deported.

    So WHY is it such a problem to insist that folks desiring to live in the US simply follow the long-established protocols instead of sneaking in? Working under the table/radar can be done, but why? Everyone doing it knows full well that, once discovered, one is then nearly always deported. Name me ONE nation on this big round dirtball that allows anyone to come in and squat, living of the labours and treasure of those who were here first. Can’t do it. Man up and do it right, or stay home.

    And yes, there HAVE been a signficant number of those “undocumented” who have come in from various latin american nations AND who have, after their arrival, perpetrated rapes, murders, thefts, nasty car crashes with no insurance coverage, dumping their load onto the rest of us who do comply with the law and get insurance. And OUR premiums are higher to cover the added risk from these irresponsible invaders. Our tax dollars also fund their medical care, food stamps, schooling for their kids, etc. Nobody asked us if WE were willing to do so.
    Meanwhile a friend of mine is married to a man from Brasil… and HE cannot come here. Why? Because those same people say he can’t. She is from a lower income family, they take care of themselves just fine, so no one is on welfare.. byt they collectively don’t have enough documentable income to support this man to THEIR sense of what is appropriate. Hey, they’d be happy living in an old travel trailer in someone’s backyard or a trailer park, on the cheap.

    But no, she had to emigrate to Brasil.

    And you want to justify the importation of tens of thousands of unskilled, untrained, non-english speaking, unvetted, (no, not even a medical exam…) for folks that, at VERY high percentages, end up griftig off the rest of us…

    no thanks

    1. “Name me ONE nation on this big round dirtball that allows anyone to come in and squat, living of the labours and treasure of those who were here first. ”

      Would you have any objection if conversion to Islam were part of the deal?

      Now, can you name a nation that doesn’t have people who aren’t allowed to be there? I met someone who was working illegally in Bhutan, even though he was married to a local. It’s a world wide problem and America isn’t going to stop it by walling itself off and whinging about it. Migration has always been the easiest way to escape poverty. It’s what the free movement of people is all about.

    2. “So WHY is it such a problem to insist that folks desiring to live in the US simply follow the long-established protocols instead of sneaking in? ”

      White guilt, and those who prey upon it.

      You can’t pull this open borders, welfare state to the world crap on countries that don’t have a white majority. They’ll tell you to go fuck yourself.

  27. If they were going to “release” them, they should have done it by dumping them back over the border after tattooing a number on each one.

    1. If you want to go all 13 colonies on them, a brand to disfigure the face was how debtors and such were treated in the good olde days.

  28. It’s one thing for Shikha to make a fool of herself every week with her Open Borders screeds.

    But now Nick goes full Usenet snark rant. He’s got *nothing*.

    #ClownMagazine

  29. I don’t know how you can argue with the pristine logic of “legal is legal, and illegal is illegal,” the primary talking point of the “deport the swarthies” crowd.

    Why talk about the underlying humanity or practical utility of these actions when words that equal themselves in every way are, in fact, the same?

    1. Are you drunk?

      1. I don’t know why that’s relevant.

        The point is, rightwing fucktards really really want to not treat swarthy brown people as undesirables to be separated from their infant children, but the law is the law. It’s at most a misdemeanor, and usually just a civil infraction, but still. This is a libertarian site, and if anything can be said about libertarians, its their respect for draconian enforcement of the law for no good reason.

        I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen a libertarian speeding on the highway only to pull himself over and flag down the nearest cop to turn himself in.

        1. We want them to go back, because we don’t want the peace, freedom, and prosperity of the US destroyed.

          1. Deport yourselves then.

          2. Poor Tony. Always so upset that America is still trying to be a better country for Americans.

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  31. Another article conflating legal and illegal immigration followed by condescension and sarcasm. Yea, reason.com must be hacked. This article was hard to read, my tolerance for those who wish to dispose of reason and commonsense, sacrificing the two on the altar of ”empathy”, is at an all-time low.

    1) Securing our borders is an expression of sovereignty. You don’t lock your doors at night because you hate everyone in existence, you do so because you love your family and care about their well being and your possessions. In America, we are one big family and we have a culture worth preserving. Having an influx of illegal aliens pouring into the country- who fail to assimilate properly, if at all- will result in the eventual dilution of our culture until it vanishes into the dustbins of history. We are defined by our culture, and it is the values and ideals that make up our culture that has given birth to the freest nation in the world.

    2) Using the children of illegal immigrants in order to discredit those in favor of tighter border security measures is ridiculous. It’s also a pretty dumb strawman. It is unfortunate that children have to suffer due to their unlawful parents who knowingly broke our laws- knowing full well the potentiality of being apprehended and deported- and do so with little to no regard.

    3) Hey, Nick! Any word on the new study by MIT and YALE that found the number of illegal aliens living in the shadows to be upwards of 23 million or more? That’s more than double the amount that we previously thought to be the case, which stood at 11 million. According to FAIR, when the number was 11 million the US taxpayer was left with a 113 million burden. That’s 45 million on the federal level and 88 million on the state level with illegal immigrant contributing a mere 19 million in taxes. Now that the number is 23 million or more, Lord knows the strain on our country.

    4) Are you truly concerned or are you a disingenuous ideologue who displays selective outrage whenever convenient?

    1. “Any word on the new study by MIT and YALE that found the number of illegal aliens living in the shadows to be upwards of 23 million or more?”
      Cite?

      1. Old party line: “It’s just a small number of illegal, they are helping the US economy and not doing much harm, so no need to enforce the law.”

        New party line: “There are so many of them, deporting them all would be impractical and seriously hurt the US economy, not to mention shift political power in a way that no progressive could agree to.”

  32. “America is already 34th among the 50th richest countries in terms of share of foreign-born residents “

    Which is a bunch of crap. If you actually look at the list, the ones that beat the United States are mostly microstates, or Gulf States with large numbers of foreign workers. But they aren’t “immigrants”. There is no path to citizenship for them, and they can’t even bring their families.

    If you look at the total number, the US has more total immigrants than any other country in the world, hands down. A whopping 19% of the worlds migrants are in the United States!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_immigrant_population

    1. Reason being intellectually disingenuous, no way!

    2. And that has resulted in making America terrible (soon to be made great again!) in what ways?

  33. Sarcasm? Satire? I guess I don’t know this guys work enough to know. It is not the USs Fault the world became Nation States and if anyone bothers to look at the definition of NATION you will find that the people coming here are not part of ours, not that they cannot become so, Hell, Let’s just go to these corrupt crappy places and offer each citizens 1 Million Dollars to buy the country. Sure the Corrupt Elite will scream but Juan and Maria busting their @$$s n the fields probably would be all for it…. BOOM for 18 Million we now have a few new states and a bunch of new millionaires. Seems like the thing to do. Get a referendum on the ballot of these failing countries and make the world a better place for almost no money at all.

  34. Huh.

    Well, I guess Gillepsie does read at least some of the comment sections after all.

  35. The President and his “base” are not anti immigrant. That statement is wrong.

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