Immigration Grunts

The poor slobs who try to help the poor slobs trapped in detention hell

Comments

[loveconstitution1789]

Illegals can 100% have prevented being detained, by not violating US immigration law.

They can also 100% end it, by self-deporting.

I wonder what the comic strip about that would look like?

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[RobertPWilson]

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[Ordinary Person]

Most of those families were legally seeking asylum according to law. Trump was usurping that law by using family separation and closing entry points to punish these innocent people. It's a sickening twisted thing but ignorance like the kind you regularly demonstrate is rampant in this country so I expect we'll soon see worse.

[R. K. Phillips]

Don't be silly. Trump wasn't trying to punish anyone. He's just buying right-wing votes for the next election. (Though, come to think of it, I cannot recall a single left-wing country with open borders ...)

[JesseAz]

Most of them knowingly don't have a case for Asylum and are using the law as a means to be caught and released. See the 20% approval rate for asylum.

Obama also used family separation to stem the tide of family units attempting to cross. Way to be ignorant about facts yet again. And why do you care about family separation for illegals but not for American Citizens? Something like 30k families a year are separated by a parent going into jail. I see no tears or activism from you idiots in that regard.

[Last of the Shitlords]

Jesse, OP employs two things in his rationale, the first being a double standard, and the other being revisionist history. Both hallmarks of the progtard.

[Ordinary Person]

Shitlord, that's you and Jesse. Obama is both "family separater" and "open border". Liberals "don't care about prisoners" and they "they're soft on crime". Y'all are fucking crazy bro. Fucking nuts.

[Last of the Shitlords]

No we're not. You are. The first argument a progtard makes will always contradict the second argument. You people are living contradictions. Given the hypocrisy endemic of your progtardation the things you mentioned are not only feasible but normal, for your kind.

[Ordinary Person]

I am disgusted by the police state. It's probably the main reason I'm attracted to libertarianism. Generally speaking, liberals have been the people who advocated for prisoner rights and criminal justice reform and they were tarred by conservatives for being "weak on crime" for their concern. Your ignorance has so twisted you.

[Last of the Shitlords]

You are not a libertarian in any way.

[Ben_]

People seeking asylum on the southern border should seek asylum from Mexico.

[loveconstitution1789]

Most asylum claims are horse shit.

Being poor is not a valid asylum reason.
Wanting to be in the USA is not a valid asylum reason.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Drug users can 100% have prevented being detained, by not violating US drug law.

[loveconstitution1789]

Repeal the unconstitutional controlled substances act.

Drug laws are unconstitutional. Immigration laws are perfectly constitutional.

[Longtobefree]

Like the inside of a liberal's mind - blank

[ConstitutionalDon]

That would be an improvement.
Inside the mind of a typical liberal is a swirling miasma of misunderstanding, envy and violence.

[RobertPWilson]

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[Juice]

Slaves can 100% have prevented being whipped by not violating master's orders.

[loveconstitution1789]

The poor slobs who try to help the poor slobs trapped in detention hell

Only in immigration law are lawyers down to "help" their clients break the law.

[Rockabilly]

Passports and borders are racist, and form of colonialism and white privileges.

Have a nice day !

[Joe M]

How dare these people try to come to the Land of the Free for a better life?

[DeleteGrossLiberals]

Because their "better life" is at our expense. Virtually none of them will be able to support themselves, and statistically, their children and grandchildren won't be able to either.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

What complete and utter bullshit. Most immigrants that come here work their asses off.

[The ghOst of mcgOo]

Funny how we haven't heard from any illegal immigrants that waste their time Every.Fucking.Day posting stupid shit on Reason.com. Oh....., they're probably too busy WORKING to engage in frivolous banter.

[Benitacanova]

No entiendo.

[Last of the Shitlords]

Progtards sure have time on their hands, don't they, you welfare queen soyboy?

[miketol]

One has to be able to read and write in English in order to post stupid shit on reason.

[DeleteGrossLiberals]

Even if you assume that's true, "working their asses off" in menial jobs doesn't pay for their health care, housing, and education costs.

[loveconstitution1789]

Follow the rules when coming to the USA.

[Tu­lpa AKA "feeling smug"]

Oooh an immigration thread I'm going to get to kick jeff around some more.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

Polls show more Americans than ever agree with the statement "immigration is a good thing." That means the Koch / Reason open borders agenda is widely popular. Have fun being on the wrong side of history.

#AbolishICE
#NoBanNoWall
#OpenBorders

[Rockabilly]

July 4, 2019 is national Burn Your Passport Day.

Burn your passport and show Trump you stand with undocumented immigrants whose only crime is to get caught for wanting to be free.

[Tu­lpa AKA "feeling smug"]

God you're a boring parody.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

(1) I'm not a parody.

(2) Would I be less boring if I changed my name several times per week depending on who last upset me?

[Rockabilly]

Jesus you're a boring parody.

[JesseAz]

You're usually better than just resorting to an ignorant strawman argument (albeit, Jeff will most likely make that same argument in this thread), but still.

[bignose]

That's very important to you, isn't it?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

i have no doubt you will ruin the conversation, as you usually do.

Now shoo, pest.

[Last of the Shitlords]

Hey Pedo Jeffy. Come here in between jacking it to illegal alien predator kiddie porn whackfests to shitpost?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Tulpa managed not to shit on the conversation, but then you came along to do his job for him.

[Last of the Shitlords]

PJ media reports that Amazon is selling child sex fpdolls for sickos like you Pedo Jeffy. I'll be there your giddy like a small child you want to violate

[Barnstormer]

Did the cartoonist have a point? Did Reason actually pay him for this insipid piece?

[Rockabilly]

Reason is for open borders so people everywhere can come to America so they can be free to collect welfare.

[Homple]

Free Markets, Free Minds and Free Shit For Illegal Migrants!

[Cy]

Also, free markets for China, when they feel like it, slave labor and communism are just great and awesome!

[n00bdragon]

But Reason is against welfare. If welfare were not a concern why would preventing people from coming and going as they please be a problem?

[Rockabilly]

How do I know Reason is against welfare?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

It's kinda mixed, actually. Gillespie is okay with a minimal welfare state it seems, but KMW is pretty hard core anarchist.

[JesseAz]

Government not providing you handouts is anarchy? You same some really stupid shit Jeff.

[Cy]

It's not a coincidence.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Why don't you ask KMW about her anarchist views. Or better yet actually listen to the podcasts. I'm sure she has a better definition for anarchism other than "no bennies".

[Chipper Morning Wood]

Wut. Chemjeff said nothing of the sort. He said KMW is an anarchist, which means she opposes any welfare. This does not in any way imply that the converse is true.

[Homple]

Doesn't matter if Reason is critical of public welfare; the massive welfare system exists. Whooping for unlimited migration is, in fact, whooping for giving welfare to illegal migrants.

Predictable consequences are intended consequences.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

By this logic, the drug war should persist forever - because if the drug war ended, that would mean more addicts, and by your reasoning, it would be intentional. So, advocating for ending the drug war is equivalent to advocating for more addicts and more drug overdoses, *intentionally*.

Is that your argument?

[Homple]

No. My argument is that the welfare system exists and, as long as it exists in its present form, letting in illegal migrants gives them access to taxpayer funds they should not have and taxpayers are less and less able to support.

Even Milton Friedman pointed out that you can have open borders or a welfare state but not both. So while our welfare state exists we had better control immigration

[chemjeff radical individualist]

So while our welfare state exists we had better control immigration

See this is what I don't get. The amount of welfare consumed by illegal immigrants is a tiny fraction of the overall welfare state. Why is THIS relatively piddly amount of welfare the focus of so much ire? It makes no sense. All of the welfare consumed by illegal immigrants could end tomorrow and it would barely be a rounding error on the overall total.

[Homple]

Since the open borders agitators will put no limit on the number of migrants they will let in, the agitators are making the case for providing welfare to the millions of people in the rest of the world who would rather be here than where they are now.

[leninsmummy]

It's not just theft of benefits (and driving costs of healthcare and schools up, two areas where cost is already at a breaking point). Its the most vulnerable citizens competing with illegals for jobs. It's the sheer numbers of people (millions!!!) that are breaking the law with mostly no repercussions. How are these illegal aliens so damn entitled? I don't get why this is so hard to understand?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

It's not just theft of benefits

Let me clarify. When I refer to welfare as theft, I am not referring to taking benefits illegally. I regard all of the welfare state as a type of theft against the taxpayer, regardless if the law declares that such benefits are legal. So in my view a native-born citizen who takes welfare is just as guilty of theft against the taxpayer as an undocumented immigrant who takes welfare. Viewed in that light, it makes no sense to obsess over the relatively small amount of theft committed by undocumented immigrants, when the much larger amount of theft committed by everyone else goes ignored.

and driving costs of healthcare and schools up, two areas where cost is already at a breaking point

Once again - the contribution from undocumented immigrants to this problem is minuscule compared to the contribution from everyone else.

Its the most vulnerable citizens competing with illegals for jobs.

Why should the state use immigration policy as a form of labor protectionism on behalf of citizens?

It's the sheer numbers of people (millions!!!) that are breaking the law with mostly no repercussions.

In this case, the law is dumb. I get as upset about that as I do about the millions of people who are breaking the laws against smoking pot. I don't really care.

How are these illegal aliens so damn entitled?

"Why don't those people know their proper place in the order of things?"

[chemjeff radical individualist]

*Furthermore*, if the issue at hand is the taxpayer expense associated with illegal immigration, then shouldn't the cost of immigration enforcement be balanced against the cost of welfare for illegal immigrants? Which is truly the higher number?

[Vernon Depner]

The value of money and property stolen by thieves is a tiny fraction of our privately held national wealth. Why bother to arrest and prosecute thieves? If thievery ended tomorrow, the increase in the net worth of all victims of theft would barely be a rounding error. Shouldn't the cost of apprehending and punishing thieves be balanced against the value of the property they take? Which is truly the higher number?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

That is a false analogy. A better analogy would be to compare theft from shoplifting, vs. theft from grand larceny. And if a law enforcement jurisdiction decided to spend most of its efforts going after shoplifters, and relatively little effort going after grand larceny thieves, then yes I would question their motives. Wouldn't you?

[Vernon Depner]

No, it's a strong analogy, but you missed the point, as I should have expected.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

No, it's a false analogy. You're comparing two dissimilar acts: theft, and the lawful acquisition of property. Welfare, on the other hand, is theft either way - it is theft from taxpayers no matter who it is spent on. So obsessing over welfare by illegal immigrants is, analogously, focusing over theft by shoplifting while paying relatively little attention to the much larger amount of theft going on in larger quantities.

Unless your argument is that welfare consumption by illegal immigrants is theft, but welfare consumption by citizens isn't really theft?

[Vernon Depner]

Now you've really wandered off into the weeds.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

No, I've taken apart your flawed analogy, and now you're trying to gaslight.

Is welfare a form of theft against taxpayers? Yes or no?

[Vernon Depner]

if the drug war ended, that would mean more addicts

Evidence?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

When Prohibition ended, alcoholism increased. I presume the same would happen with the end of the drug war.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w3675

[Last of the Shitlords]

democrats now value illegals over the American citizen.

[Vernon Depner]

That's because Americans keep voting wrong.

[Robert]

As usual, Mr. Bagge's just reporting, & seeming to do a damn good job of it. The points are all self-explanatory.

The great thing is that people knowing he was a cartoonist still wanted to be interviewed. I'd figured he just IDd as a journalist. This is the 1st I've seen someone depicted as expecting to be the subject of anyone's cartoon, unless you count Bert & Harry Piels, who were consciously subjects of a series of coasters.

[Echospinner]

I liked it. Reason does not do much actual journalism. At least Bagge actually went to the detention center and is reporting in cartoon form his impressions of the people he met there. It is much better than most things posted here. Not just a rant opinion piece and very creative.

[Ben of Houston]

It's informational, if nothing else.

[Ryan (formally HFTO)]

"Aging Marxists" are the very people driving the democratic party into a whirlwind of insanity and butthurt. Postmodernism combined with limousine liberalism has led to a massive amount of American's believing they're poor and helpless, mostly bored middle class white people. Meanwhile, people who are actually poor enjoy living and prospering in the freest and wealthiest nation in the history of mankind.

May the marxists continue their quest to drive sane people toward the Right, whether it be independent voters or Republican

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Good heavens. The only actual Marxists around today are in university English departments and they aren't the ones driving the Democratic Party.

[Rockabilly]

For what it's worth, this article states:

" Highly educated and self-described socialists in the academy have written erudite articles making the Marxist case for voting Democratic."

Young Marxist Intellectuals and the Democratic Party

https://tinyurl.com/y4fh6co3

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Yeah. That article is just talking about academics writing about other academics in academic journals making the case for Marxism. Yay them? Academics aren't running the Democratic Party. At the moment it's a combination of corporate interests and left-wing populism. I always find it amusing when people claim that *either* party is controlled by some strict ideology, like laissez-faire capitalism for Republicans or Marxism for Democrats. Neither one is particularly ideological.

[Rockabilly]

Jeff - today's democrat party is different from JFK's time. JFK was anti-communist. Many in today's party are openly socialist. So it's drifting noticeably left. Are you going to wait until it openly espouses Marxism?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Sure they are different. They are more socialist-friendly in the past. I agree with that. But it's not fair to call them Marxists. That is just silly.

[Ryan (formally HFTO)]

Read the comic, Jeff. Look at who runs the universities, Jeff. Watch the oppression olympics, aka the democratic primaries, Jeff.

It's very obvious, then again, so was the result of the Mueller investigation. When leftism is your religion, you have no choice but to believe.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

You think the universities are run by Marxists?
You think the Democratic candidates are Marxists?

[Ryan (formally HFTO)]

All you need to know that the democratic party is controlled by Marxists is that they push modern monetary theory.

I could go into personal experience, I could dive into grievance studies, I could point out the communists, I could describe postmodernism and how it's used to push an agenda.... but I don't have time to teach a course on this. Just understand that they push MMT, and are not shy about it

[chemjeff radical individualist]

All you need to know that the democratic party is controlled by Marxists is that they push modern monetary theory.

Here is what an actual Marxist has to say about MMT:

http://thenextrecession.wordpr.....-and-marx/

The summary: MMT is not equivalent to Marxist ideas on money, but there are some broad similarities.

[Last of the Shitlords]

Yes it is fair to call them marxists you little pedo loving shitposter.

[JesseAz]

Even the far left DailyKos says Bernie is a Marxist shithead.

link

[Ken Shultz]

I think it's great that there are people who will voluntarily assist immigrants while they are waiting for their asylum hearing, and I shudder to think what would happen to those immigrants if the anti-fa people had their way and that facility were shut down.

I'd also like to see detainees held in better conditions while waiting for a determination of whether their asylum claims are sufficiently credible to deserve a hearing, but I feel the same way about conditions in our prisons system. I understand why these things get a low priority for funding.

How much money have we squandered on things that should be a lower priority than ensuring that people who haven't yet been convicted of any crime are treated humanely while they're in government custody?

[Homple]

People swarm the Southern border by the thousands, many with memorized asylum spiels. There will never be enough money to provide detention facilities for that many people or enough judges and court personnel to process their claims in a timely manner.

So we turn them loose in the USA.

[Ken Shultz]

The question is what to do with them while their asylum claims are being evaluated for whether they're sufficiently credible to justify an asylum hearing. Whether we should change the laws about whether they should be allowed to stay until their case is heard doesn't speak to whether they should be treated humanely while they're in custody before they even get a court date.

[Homple]

Relatively few are even in custody. There are not enough facilities and personnel to treat the massive influx of people at all, humanely or otherwise so we simply release the vast majority of them and hope they come back for processing and a hearing.

[Ken Shultz]

"As of July 2018, there were over 733,000 pending immigration cases and the average wait time for an immigration hearing was 721 days."

Asylum seekers are released--after they get a court date. They're released into the wild--after they get a court date and given temporary residency until their court date.

http://immigrationforum.org/ar.....m-process/

About 70% are denied asylum either at their hearing or because they don't show up to court.

https://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/491/

I have not seen anything to suggest that large numbers of asylum seekers are released without a court date. If you have a link, please provide it.

[Homple]

I agree they are all released with a court date. These court dates are months or a couple of years ahead and the asylum seekers may or may not show up for the hearing, all the while living in the USA, on welfare, charity or by illegal employment.

[Ken Shultz]

I do not claim to be an expert in refugee law, but I suspect most of this has to do with the Convention relating to Refugees, which may well have been ratified by the Senate.

Many of the things you're talking about are in harmony with that treaty.

The contracting states shall:

provide free access to courts for refugees (Article 16)
provide administrative assistance for refugees (Article 25)
provide identity papers for refugees (Article 27)
provide travel documents for refugees (Article 28)
allow refugees to transfer their assets (Article 30)
provide the possibility of assimilation and naturalization to refugees (Article 34)

The contracting states shall not:

discriminate against refugees (Article 3)
take exceptional measures against a refugee solely on account of his or her nationality (Article 8)
expect refugees to pay taxes and fiscal charges that are different to those of nationals (Article 29)
impose penalties on refugees who entered illegally in search of asylum if they present themselves without delay (Article 31), which is commonly interpreted to mean that their unlawful entry and presence ought not to be prosecuted at all[18]
expel refugees (Article 32)
forcibly return or "refoul" refugees to the country they've fled from (Article 33).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.....Convention

[Ken Shultz]

The solution to this is probably about adding more judges.

"733,000 pending immigration cases and the average wait time for an immigration hearing was 721 days"

If I didn't know anything else about this, I might suspect that the Democrats are purposely not filling open positions in immigration court.

[Ken Shultz]

Oh and here's more from the same link:

Refugees shall be treated at least like nationals in relation to

freedom to practice their religion (Article 4)
the respect and protection of artistic rights and industrial property (Article 14)
rationing (Article 20)
elementary education (Article 22)
public relief and assistance (Article 23)
labour legislation and social security (Article 24)

Refugees shall be treated at least like other non-nationals in relation to

movable and immovable property (Article 13)
the right of association in unions or other associations (Article 15)
wage-earning employment (Article 17)
self-employment (Article 18)
practice of the liberal professions (Article 19)
housing (Article 21)
education higher than elementary (Article 22)
the right to free movement and free choice of residence within the country (Article 26)

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I 100% agree, Ken.

And this sort of thing only fuels the idea that the government exists merely to benefit those with money and connections, at the expense of everyone else. Detained immigrants are at the very bottom of the "money and connections" list so they don't get squat.

The government can provide subsidies to Tesla drivers, but has to outsource basic needs for immigrants to private charity.

[JesseAz]

You are a parody right? The two highest payout programs are SS and Medicare. IT is even more spending if you count Medicaid. For SS and Medicare, the average recipient receives more than they put in. This is most true for those who contributed the least to SS (minimum years to get a payout). Medicaid is a direct handout to the poor. You're "those with money and connections benefit more" is just proof you are a fucking dumbass. You could at least claim on a per capita value because then you could divide the tesla subsidies, really small monetary wise, with the really small population benefited in order to garner a per capita subsidy of about 3k one time. But this is not even close to the 12k average per medicaid recipient, 300k average per Medicare recipient, or about 10-15% adjusted on low income SS payout.

You're knowledge is so ignorant it is just sad.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I think I will have to coin a new term, CDS - Chemjeff Derangement Syndrome. You're so deranged by my words that you can't even think clearly. This idea that the government benefits the rich and connected, at the expense of the common person, is at the very heart of Trump-style populism. Read his inaugural address for heaven's sake. It is full of this type of stuff. Heck it's at the heart of Bernie-style populism too. The precise merits of these claims is a separate issue. But you can't really argue genuinely that this idea is some misguided parody. It's the major driving force on both sides now. But by all means, if you wish to argue that the premises of the populists are rather flimsy, I'm all ears. Please, continue.

[Last of the Shitlords]

Pedo Jeffy addresses none of Jesse's points. Now Pedo Jeffy will resort to calling him racist.

Tell me Pedo Jeffy, when your illegal alien predator friends make this films for you where they rape white children, is that also racist? Or is it just patriotic Americans who are the bad guys?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Don't you have some more Democrats to murder?

But whatever you do, don't charge me rent for living in your head.

[loveconstitution1789]

Lies chemjeff.

Kids of illegals get medicaid, school funding, and food stamps.

If illegals get an amnesty, the old ones get to collect social security without paying much into it. Plus medicare.

The fact that illegals want these benefits so bad tells you that its worth for them.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

perhaps you should read the cartoon.

[Echospinner]

Chemjeff

Government exists to consolidate power and control unto itself. Politicicians of any stripe want to do that and differ only in approach and rhetoric.

To rule is not easy as has been noted throughout history. You cannot do it alone. It needs many on all levels to generate all of what is needed to not only survive but prosper.

PJ O'Rourke "giving power and money to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys"

But I am preaching to the choir.

What I like about libertarians. Libertarians can be a persistent pain in the ass to the rest of them if we stick to principles. That is all we got, a better more moral way for people to coexist.

[JesseAz]

I'd prefer the families be taken care of in their home countries until the time that their trial (now almost 2 years) is scheduled. There is no law or reason they need to stay in the US. It would even be cheaper to pay for the flights to trial (even with a hotel stay) than letting them stay in the country for 2 years without work Visas. The fact that only 20% of claims end up being upheld should be a reason to not grant a positive benefit of a 2 year visa while they wait. I won't even discuss the no shows in the claims courts.

If in their home countries the government targets them on their claims, it would provide evidence and their court days would be expedited. Problem is we know most of these claims are economic claims, and therefore not covered under US law.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

There is no law or reason they need to stay in the US.

Except that sending them back to their home countries is completely contrary to the whole concept of asylum.

[Rockabilly]

It sounds like many illegal aliens are not aware of how to ask for asylum.

https://tinyurl.com/y8ukz94q

For what it's worth, this article claims that

"Data Indicates Illegal Immigrants Are Exploiting U.S. Asylum With False Claims"

https://tinyurl.com/y3zseoz8

[Ken Shultz]

I think it's an easy way for illegal immigrants to make it across the border without paying a smuggler. My understanding is that some 70% of the people who ask for asylum are given a court date two years in the future and temporary residency until then. A large portion of them never show up to their court date.

If you have a 70% chance of being allowed across the border and given two years of temporary residency just by showing up at an entry point and requesting asylum, why would you bother paying a coyote first?

[Rockabilly]

Good point Ken...

[loveconstitution1789]

Most asylum claims are utter bullshit. Being poor does not qualofy for asylum.

These vast majority of illegals have no legitimate reason to be in the USA. They are actually gumming up the asylum system for the 20% of whatever who have legitimate claims of asylum.

Reason will never discuss this. Illegals that know that their asylum claims are bullshit are fucking over immigrants with legitimate asylum claims from being accepted within a month or two.

Choke on that Reason!

[Ken Shultz]

It may be against international law (treaties we've ratified) to send refugees back to their home countries if their claims for asylum are deemed reasonable enough to entitle them to a hearing. If they're fleeing the Nazis, sending them back to Germany would just be a terrible thing to do. It's also probably illegal.

I don't see why Guatemalan asylum seekers trying to enter at a checkpoint on the Mexican border couldn't wait in Mexico for their hearing--if the Mexican government is willing to accept them. If someone makes it across the border and is taken into custody from somewhere within our borders, then making them leave the country to wait in Mexico should require an extradition hearing anyway. If they already have a court date to rule on their asylum claim, why give them yet another one? If their claim is rejected, they'll just be deported anyway.

[Echospinner]

" If they're fleeing the Nazis, sending them back to Germany would just be a terrible thing to do. It's also probably illegal."

US policy toward Jewish refugees fleeing the Holocaust was a moral tragedy. It is a major reason why the American Jewish community is very open to helping refugees from other places today and have charity programs for that.

[colorblindkid]

There is no systemic ethnic or religious based campaign of violence in Central and South America. it is just run of the mill gang violence and poverty, as can be found in every corner of the world. Refugee status needs to be reserved for far more specific situations. They are migrants.

[loveconstitution1789]

Past Asylum seekers have ruined it for current asylum seekers. Most past asylum seekers dont show for court dates because they have been told their asylum claims do not fall under guidelines.

The Silent Majority in the USA is sick of illegals violating our rules and thinking we wont do anything about it. Trump is the retort to that scheme by illegals and their enablers.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

New Zealand continues to demonstrate how a decent, humane country responds to a terrorist attack.

New Zealand Bans the Christchurch Suspect's Manifesto

"People who have downloaded this document, or printed it, should destroy any copies," said David Shanks, the chief censor in New Zealand's Department of Internal Affairs.

Does the US even have a chief censor? If not, we should. Hopefully when Democrats control the White House again they can work on that after passing common sense gun safety legislation.

[rbike]

That and a Handicapper General and we would truly be great again!!

[Rockabilly]

Why not abolish the US Constitution, then we can be like New Zealand?

[Longtobefree]

There is one reason for each firearm in the USA.
Oh, and the constitution says you can't abolish the constitution; just amend (or adjudicate, if easier) it to meaninglessness.

[Mongo]

Good comic but P-Bag draws himself with more muscles than he has in real life.

[Zhevonsu]

Drug users can 100% have prevented being detained, by not violating US drug law. You're knowledge is so ignorant it is just sad.

[Vernon Depner]

Drug users who are citizens of the United States have a right to demand that the US government stop telling them what they may or may not do with their own bodies. Foreigners entering the US by irregular means have the right to expect absolutely nothing from the citizens or government of the US and should stay out if they don't care for how they are treated here.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

So the principle of self-ownership over one's body only applies to citizens?

[Vernon Depner]

The right to demand anything from our government belongs only to citizens and, to some extent, to legal alien residents.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Does that include things like, say, basic provisions of justice?

So if a crime is committed against an illegal immigrant, that immigrant should not have any recourse to seek justice?

[Vernon Depner]

Conversation with you would be more rewarding if you would simply state your own thoughts rather than tediously demanding that I answer your questions.

[Last of the Shitlords]

Pedo Jeffy is too stupid for that. And after you debunk his bullshit questions. He will ask them again in the next immigration discussion.

He is a tiresome pedo loving shitposter.

[Vernon Depner]

He won't even wait until the next discussion. He'll ask the same questions repeatedly in one thread.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I'm trying to ascertain what your position is on the matter.

If you really think that noncitizens aren't entitled to *anything at all*, then that means that you basically think it's open season on them. They can get robbed, raped and beaten, and the perpetrators won't be punished. That doesn't seem right.

[leninsmummy]

Can we ask that individuals come in an orderly and respectful manner? You know well that a huge majority of these 'asylum' claims, approximately 80% (those who never bother showing up for a court hearing) are cynical exploitation of our system. I for one am tired of the lies. No, not everyone in the world is entitled to come here. Especially not those who start with breaking our laws.

[Vernon Depner]

I'm trying to ascertain what your position is on the matter.

No, you're not. You're trying to tell me what my position is, and demanding that I defend the position you ascribed to me, as is your habit. I'm not playing.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Look. You wrote:

"The right to demand anything from our government belongs only to citizens and, to some extent, to legal alien residents."

You wrote "anything". If you mean what you wrote, then that includes things like access to the justice system. Is that really what you mean? If so then you are advocating for basically open season on foreigners. If not, then maybe you want to revise your very broad "anything" statement.

[loveconstitution1789]

The controlled substances act is unconstitutional.

Even the prohibitionists knew that they needed a constitutional amendment to ban alcohol.

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[vek]

So in short:

Blah, blah, blah, I'm a bleeding heart little girl who can't accept that we can't take in every illiterate peasant in the world and remain a first world nation... So I'll cry about it because people with more common sense than me say we need to stop taking in shitty people!

That's basically the entire immigration debate in a nutshell. Economically speaking we could probably take in as many educated, high income people as possible. But we would turn ourselves into a 3rd world country with endless low skill immigration. PERIOD.

Then there's the social cohesion factor. Frankly, many groups seem to show ZERO intention of integrating. Melting pot MAY work, but salad bowl does not. That's a problem. But even if people do integrate over a few generations, if we want them to become proper Americans, instead of them changing the US into socialist shitholes like they came from, we need to keep the numbers in proportion.

We've clearly hit or exceeded the number that can be absorbed in a short period of time. All of immigration boils down to those 2 things really. How people can't accept the obvious reality of that is beyond me.

[loveconstitution1789]

+100

[JonFrum]

Fuck 'em. Every last one.

[Hank Phillips]

Good cartoon. Kudos.

[Last of the Shitlords]

It's bullshit ust like you Hank.

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[3xploi7]

Only in immigration law are lawyers down to "help" their clients break the law. Foreigners entering the US by irregular means have the right to expect absolutely nothing from the citizens or government of the US and should stay out if they don't care for how they are treated here.