New Zealand

49 Dead in Alleged 'Eco-Fascist' Attack on 2 New Zealand Mosques

The suspected shooter is in custody.

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Alexander Romitsyn/ZUMA Press/Newscom

At least 49 people are dead and dozens more injured following shooting attacks Friday at two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand. Officials there have arrested the alleged gunman, who livestreamed his assaults on Facebook and is apparently the author of a racist, anti-immigrant, and "eco-fascist" manifesto. Several bombs were also found in the area.

Eyewitnesses describe a horrific scene in which men, women, and children were all shot. "There were bodies all over me," one witness told stuff.co.nz. There was "blood everywhere," another said to Radio New Zealand.

The manifesto denies that the killer acted in search of fame ("After all who can remember the name of the attackers in the September 11 attack in New York?") and explicitly describes his murders as a terrorist act. His chief grievance is a "crisis of mass immigration and sub-replacement fertility" that he believes amounts to "white genocide," a common charge on the racist right.

In addition to the suspected shooter, two other men and one woman have been detained, according to The New York Times. Their connection to the attack is not clear, and police do not think one of them was involved in the shooting at all, The Washington Post reports.

The shootings occurred at Linwood Mosque and Al Noor Mosque around the time of Friday prayers. The latter is where the vast majority of people were killed. (According to the New Zealand Herald, the attacker or attackers left the Linwood Mosque after "one Friday prayer goer returned fire with a rifle or shotgun.") In addition to the 49 dead, at least 48 patients were being treated for gunshot wounds at a local hospital, Canterbury District Health Board Chief Executive David Meates said in a statement.

In his manifesto, the alleged shooter describes himself as a 28-year-old Australian male who wants "to ensure the existence of our people and a future for white children." He claims to have no personal hatred for Muslims "living in their homelands" but denounces Muslims "choosing to invade our lands live on our soil and replace our people."

The alleged gunman makes several references to the United States, expressing hope that his shooting will result in calls for more gun control and that white Americans will have to "fight to protect your rights and the constitution." He also mentions conservative activist Candace Owens, declaring that she is "the person that has influenced me above all." That part is likely sarcastic—he goes on to say that he has "to disavow some of her beliefs, the extreme actions she calls for are too much, even for my tastes."

New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Arden called the attack "one of New Zealand's darkest days."

Members of the Bangladesh national cricket team were on a bus and about to pray at one of the mosques that was attacked. Before they could go in, the attack started, and they were escape to safety, the Post reports.

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324 responses to “49 Dead in Alleged 'Eco-Fascist' Attack on 2 New Zealand Mosques

  1. But is he a “Right-wing Nazi” or Republican?

    That Narrative wants to know.

    1. He’s literally a Republican.

      1. Is this one of those Colorado shooter was a tea party leader facts?

          1. To be fair to CNN, Ray, ALL Republicans are racists after all.

            1. To be more fair, the CNN handbook says that all racists are Republicans.

              1. I am curious how AT&T will change that handbook for CNN JournoLists.

                1. Hopefully they fire everyone and change it back into a straight news outlet.

                  1. I watched CNN like crazy during Gulf War I when some brave ass reporters tried to get the closest shots they could to the action.

                    Same reason I give most Vietnam reporters some slack from being the Lefty pieces of shit that they are. They were embedded with the US military units and got shots of what our military and the enemy was doing. This way, I could judge for myself.

            2. Except Lincoln, He’s a democrat now doncha know.

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      2. Today I learned that Australians have a Republican party

    2. You should be ectstatic LC. One step closer to the civil war you were fantasizing about the other day.

      1. Unlike you Lefties, fighting other people is the last resort for me.

        It’s cute that you think your internet would still work if there was Civil War 2.0 in the USA.

        1. “It’s cute that you think your internet would still work if there was Civil War 2.0 in the USA.”

          So a mixed bag for you. You’d get to slaughter Democrats, but you’d have to leave your mom’s basement to do so?

          1. Poor Eric. The fear you have must be debilitating.

            1. That’s called projection LC. Psych 101

              1. Eric. Keyboard therapy has got to be good for your Phobias.

                Keep up the good work, Champ.

                1. You learned “keyboard therapy” from a counselor or therapist. There’s value, but you’ve taken it too far. Go get some sunshine kid.

                  1. Poor Eric.

                  2. Eric, you do understand that all of the capacity to actually FIGHT a hypothetical civil war in the US is not on your side, right?

                    That what happens when your side is a bunch of weak, military hating, soy boy pussies that have no firearms, or the training to use them.

            2. Poor Eric. The fear you have must be debilitating.
              It’s soothed by the hatred he embraces and the righteousness he feels for doing so.

    3. I hate it when people say “racist right”. Being “right” or “left” has nothing to do with racism or bigotry. It’s a cheap label used to cast aspersions on an entire group. In additiona, “left” and “right” means something different in New Zealand than it does in the US. Seyton and Walker should know better.

      1. and considering he’s an eco-fascist whatever that is, since it has fascist in it that makes him left leaning

      2. I hate it when people say “racist right”.
        They know exactly what they’re doing when they say it. It’s a political smear tactic, not a condemnation of racism.

    4. Honestly this kind of shit take is exactly the problem.

      1. That the media are liars and twist everything into a Narrative to further an agenda?

        Yeah, that is the problem.

    5. As this thread shows, you guys are giving this mass murderer exactly what he wanted. Rise above this petty tribalism and treat each other as individuals.

  2. The “narrative” also wants to know what weapons he used. And how about that guy shooting back at them with a shotgun? That doesn’t fit too well.

    1. I was looking up NZ gun laws. They don’t seem to be as restrictive as Australia but definitely more restrictive than most of the USA.

      Seems like NZ has about 4.794 million people as of 2017. Estimates of 750k-1 million guns in NZ. Only about 250k New Zealanders have a license for firearms, so as with the USA, who knows who has what.

      1. I was looking at the picture of what he supposedly used; one is a shotgun [possibly semi auto] and the other is odd; configured along the lines of an AR but minus the AR receiver. As to caliber I have no idea at this point.

        Of course there were already cries for tightening up their gun laws on cue.

        1. The dead bodies have not even cooled yet and GUN CONTROL GUN CONTROL!

          Tiny bit of me suspects False Flags Op to ban guns in NZ.

          Even Deep State bureaucrats cannot be that evil, right?

          1. “Tiny bit of me suspects False Flags Op to ban guns in NZ”

            Deliberations are over; the jury is in.
            Verdict : You really are a loon.

            1. Poor troll. Script is limited to discuss real topics.

            2. Good old GRB, ready to push a political agenda on a pile of dead bodies, still warm.

              Nice to see you’re still consistently loathsome.

              1. I hardly think that “there is no evidence that this is a false flag attack and it’s pretty gross to assume that it is” qualifies as a political agenda. Either way, you routinely fantasize about filling landfills with the corpses of your political enemies, so you can quit pretending to be a decent human being now.

                1. Hey bignose, I only have a problem with people like the progtards that are oh so ready to infringe on my civil rights and make me a slave to their progtopia. I don’t have it in for the idiots down at City Hall who can’t work out a simple snow plow plan, or an activist group that bitches about most things. But your faggot friends that want to confiscate my guns, eliminate private property, pass ‘speech codes’, and all the other totalitarian Progtopia bullshit that will be enforced at the business end of a gun? Yeah, they can either abandon their beliefs, leave, or get ready to suffer when they come for real Americans.

                  So really, don’t even think about trying that shit here. I’m not the unreasonable one.

                  That honor falls to you and your pals with your Maoist/Soviet 2.0 plans for the rest of us.

                  1. Yep, just like the Christchurch shooter only had a problem with the Muslims who were taking over his country.

                    Also, not that your bichromatic view of the world will allow you to believe this, but I’m a lifelong libertarian/republican voter. I would never kill somebody for simply having different beliefs than me. You on the other hand…

                    Tell me, how many Mexican “invaders” will it take for you to finally get up off your ass and do something about it? Come on, don’t be a fucking pussy faggot! Be a brave patriot like this guy was!

              2. Guess what you are doing, Shiteater.

                I’m sure you and LC are masterbating over the pictures of the dead bodies together.

                You are just another Stalin loving Totalitarian.

                1. Check out duncan troll.

          2. Sometimes evil happens because evil people. NOT because some shadow insider reptilian is sending up a false flag. Fuck you.

            1. Sometimes governments use False Flags Ops.

              Fuck you.

            2. You probably thought people pointing out US Deep State domestic spying was a tin foil conspiracy…

              Until Edward Snowden.

              1. Not just Edward but the CIA illegally using the DOJ as cover to spy on other U.S. citizens, Donald Trump and his staff

              2. You probably thought people pointing out US Deep State domestic spying was a tin foil conspiracy…

                Until Edward Snowden.

                Growing up we had the quintessential crazy guy who used to sit out in his yard by the highway and wander around downtown. As bored teenagers with nothing to do but fuck with people, we’d talk to him. Plenty of it was (presumably) unintelligible gibberish. However, he was adamant about secret courts and how ‘they’ the shadow government could make people disappear. The sort of thing that made

                1. Conspiracy Theory and Enemy Of The State seem fantastic and unreal.

                  20-25 yrs. later the same information that served to confirm he was crazy is now unquestioned fact.

                2. Not to mention the crazy corner guy in DC many years ago with the sign that said “Catholic Church abuses kids” or something like that. How crazy was he, right?

        2. the other is odd; configured along the lines of an AR but minus the AR receiver.

          The fuzzy photos I saw, it was not an AR. It looks like a modified HK SL8.

          1. But, distinctly not AR as the stock wasn’t in line with the action meaning the bolt carrier assembly/recoil buffer aren’t where they should be for an AR.

      2. NZ’s current firearms laws are less restrictive than Australia’s, more than the US. You’ve got to have a license to own a firearm, owning a pistol requires membership of a pistol shooting sports club.

        We’ll see what happens next. I’m not crossing my fingers for a non knee-jerk reaction.

        The worst thing is that the firearms owners community here has always had an attitude of “don’t fuck this up for the rest of us” and has been quite proactive in getting dickheads licenses removed. Be interesting to find out if these bozos were reported and the police did nothing.

    2. NPR this morning said he used “an automatic rifle” (whatever they think that means).

      1. Not sure why some of y’all listen/watch NPR anymore.

        Based on what you people say you hear/see from NPR would have my vehicle radio with a Louisville Slugger hanging out of it.

        1. It’s forced upon me in the morning by my old lady. I never listen to it when I have control of the dial.

          1. Poor bastard.

        2. Not sure why some of y’all listen/watch NPR anymore.

          If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle. – Sun Tzu

          1. I never said that I don’t follow the enemy (Socialists and America haters).

            I follow all sorts of Left-Wing crazy talk to see what those nutjobs are up to. Plus, we have multiple Left-wing crackpots on here rage-posting.

            NPR always bugged me because I know taxpayer money goes to it and they have somehow kept this smug lie going that they are unbiased and in the interest of America.

            It’s more of NPR says things and NPR’s background more than what they say.

            1. *how NPR says things…

        3. I was a committed NPR listener for years, until I got woke. Their bias tends to be on the subtle [aka insidious] side, until a Clinton ran for office; then they were pretty much spraying the wet dreams over the dash of my car; that was just too much. Not even Crusty could handle that.

          1. Funny you mention that. I heard that Crusty stopped paying donations to NPR in semen crusted pennies.

            1. Maybe he should start again. And give them even more. He might be backed up by now.

      2. Yep. Looks exactly like an M60, right?

      3. Yes. I heard that too. I immediately wondered first, what the person speaking meant by “military grade automatic rifle”. Then, only briefly, because I know the answer, why that was taken at face value by the interviewer.
        I suspect “military grade automatic rifle” actually means metal stock AR15 semi-automatic or equivalent. If I had a dollar for every time I’ve had to explain the difference just between semi- and full-automatic, I could afford another AR15.

      4. For NPR, “automatic” signifies the deliberate inflation of any firearm description to induce maximum fear.

      5. Hell I saw and heard an FBI representative tell an auditorium full of tourists, that semi-auto meant multiple shots per trigger pull.

    3. A major piece of this story is being downplayed (of course) and that’s that the attacker went to a different mosque as soon as someone fired back. Mass murderers just love gun-free zones, so much safer – for them.

      1. +100

    4. Exactly. Notice the killing stopped against any resistance? Yet, people mock that idea.

  3. Who is the Pewdiepie the guy mentioned. I’m not up on the interwebz these days?

    1. Felix Arvid Ulf Kjellberg

      YouTuber that comments.

    2. Some Swedish dude who makes fun of video games.

  4. President Donald Trump said on Twitter the shootings in Christchurch were a “horrible massacre”, adding that the “US stands by New Zealand for anything we can do.”

    You’ve done enough Trump!

    #Trump’sFault

    1. It’s insane. Not only has trumps rhetoric caused the unseen racial divisions in America increase 1 million fold from the tranquil states under Obama, he has now infected other countries. Twitter is global. It must be banned.

      1. At this rate, Trump might be the only person left on Twitter. He cannot be banned.

        That federal judge deemed Trump’s tweets part of the National Presidential Record.

      2. I was joking about trump blame…. but Blumenthal is out there blaming trump for this shooting.

          1. That whole comment he made about Owens being an “extremist” and that she calls for actions that are too extreme in his view, and that she’s someone who “radicalized him” and pushed him towards “violence over meekness”, is awfully damn strange. He’s purposefully trying to slag her, but purports to be an ally.

            In fact a lot of the things he wrote in his manifesto seem like a cartoon caricature of a right-wing extremist rather than the real thing. There’s something really fuckey going on here.

            I know I’m going to be eviscerated for this, but this seems like Smollet to the 24 power.

            1. It is very suspicious.
              But the guy is a loon, so who knows.
              Wouldn’t be surprised if there was more to the story, nor would I be surprised if we never hear it.

              1. I’m getting a vibe from him like in The Stranger by Camus. Like it could have been anyone. A dispassionate fatalism. Surrendering himself to the malignant indifference of the universe. Otherwise he would have put himself down too. Maybe he wants a book deal?

            2. Remember the AmerIndian faux bomber from florida?

              Guy sends inert faux bombs to Lefties making it seem like Conservatives are trying to get them. Then somone finds video of him at a Trump rally. Guy is a caricature of a Trump supporter that a Lefty would describe.

              This is how false flag Ops go.

              Hitler had SS soldiers dress up as Polish soldiers and attack a German radio station right across the Polish Frontier. then germans killed Polish prisoners dressed as Polish soldiers that the Germans had in their custody. Casus belki for war in 1939.

              Why would Poland attack Germany?

    2. Right. Why would anyone mention what the president says in response to the major news story of the day?

      1. Because he’s not the president of the world. Literally nothing he says has any bearing whatsoever on the situation. It’s not like he hasn’t condemned racially-motivated violence in the past.

        It’s shocking how some people will assume that if he doesn’t explicitly say, “Hey, I don’t support this person,” people will assume he condones this shit.

        1. Because he’s not the president of the world. Literally nothing he says has any bearing whatsoever on the situation. It’s not like he hasn’t condemned racially-motivated violence in the past.

          It’s shocking how some people will assume that if he doesn’t explicitly say, “Hey, I don’t support this person,” people will assume he condones this shit.

          It’s actually kinda funny to think like this. Superman presumably could prevent much more crime all over the globe than he really does. Since he doesn’t prevent it and doesn’t verbally claim to be against it, he must just be one evil fucker.

        2. Maybe that’s because he DOES condone this sort of shit. Though I’m sure tweeting ‘both sides are to blame’ was a bit too tasteless even for him this time.

          1. Jfree, you taking about Charlottesville? Trump was apexaclty right. Antifa was there to agitate shit and crack some skulls. Probably so we’re some other lefty subversive groups there. It wasn’t only the skinheads, or whoever the other leftist racists that were there at fault.

            He was also right when he said there were good people on both sides of the issue. Some people,e don’t like to see historical things like anymore civil war statues destroyed because of political correctness. That doesn’t make them racist anymore than every person who was against the statue was part of Antifa.

            If you can see that then you’re a bigger idiot than we already thought.

        3. Seems like you are reading a lot into it. Sure it’s irrelevant, but it’s a pretty normal thing to do in a news story.

  5. racist, anti-immigrant, and “eco-fascist” manifesto

    “white genocide,” a common charge on the racist right.

    I am dumbfounded. That you can place a fascist on the right and that you can somehow withstand the cognitive dissonance that comes from thinking all racists are on the right. Your fucking head should explode.

    1. By the way, the original leftists (Jacobins) shouted “Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite!” and then cut the heads off of anyone that disagreed with them. They were also a bunch of violently anti-immigrant white guys who refused to give women the right to participate in government.

      This bozo sounds just like them.

    2. You need something besides the standard redneck AM radio Fat Rush education common among conservatives.

      Fascism/Nazism is classic right wing for its placement of “race, ethnic, nationalism” over shunned minority/outside groups.

      the Reason writer is spot on.

      1. Fascism isn’t right/left you pathetic demagogue.

        1. Fascism borrows elements from both left and right. That’s why it’s such a commonly used cudgel by both sides. But most objective observers would call it a right wing system.

          1. Those same “objective observers” refuse to acknowledge that Nazism is Left-Wing Socialism of a nationalist and racist flavor.

            1. You are the product of misinformation combined with metastic confirmation bias. You’ve read quite a bit on the subject I know. But it’s “who” you’ve read that is the problem. And then you come to the safe confines of H&R, where you can find a smattering of other misinformed people to confirm and even add to your already bad conclusions. Get off the internet and into the real world before you become the next dumbass to shoot up a mosque, or a school, or govt building.

              1. Eric, you are really working your studies major and thesaurus with that post but nothing you said was insightful.

              2. The source: Joseph Goebbels and Mj?lnir, Die verfluchten Hakenkreuzler. Etwas zum Nachdenken (Munich: Verlag Frz. Eher, 1932). Nazi German Propaganda 1932

                Check out this propaganda from Goebbels in 1932. It just makes Lefties trying to get away from their Nazis roots that much more difficult.

                1. Ok. You’ve read it. Now Analyze it.
                  What does Goebbels actually say about socialism?
                  Does it match the same things socialist today say?
                  Why would he be against Marxism?
                  Is he possibly co-opting the term and redefining it for his own purposes? He was a master propagandist after all.
                  Socialist are egalitarians. What does he say that is egalitarian?

                  Keep digging…and read some other analysis than what you’d find here amongst your “friends” in H&R (which will lead to confirmation bias).
                  Listen to what academics have to say about the subject in addition to pundits.

                  1. I like how you’re killing the messenger (casting Goebbels as unreliable) while subsequently casting him as reliable when it furthers your argument that Nazi policies were right wing. There is nothing right wing about worker’s rights, eco-facism, anti-capitalism, or anything else.

                    1. I’ve said that they borrow elements from BOTH the right and left (as we currently define right/left). You’ve named the left ones. Keep going.

                    2. You haven’t named a single right-wing tenet of fascism and that’s because you can’t name one. There’s nothing right-wing about ethno-nationalism, anti-democracy, state seizure of private property, or any other fascist belief. The only reason people place them right of communists is because they’re certainly not left of communists.

                    3. People place fascism on the political right because Hitler, Nazism, Italian fascism, and Spanish fascism, all went to war against socialists and communists. Hitler and the Nazis also eventually turned on, and killed, those among their own leadership cadre who had taken too seriously the socialist part of their initial ideology.

                      You can accurately say that in its earliest stages, Nazism appealed to socialist principles as an organizing tool to persuade the German working class to align with Nazis. Beyond that there isn’t historical evidence to support any notion that Nazism was ever anything but adamantly right wing, and violently anti-leftist.

                      It’s disturbing today to see right-oriented agitators who look in almost every political respect like Nazis?racist, nationalist, conspiracy minded, violence advocates?trying to pin the Nazi label on the left. Whatever you want to say about the historical left, and especially communists, they were anti-Nazi to the core. As a matter of accurate history, Russian totalitarian communism was the political force which killed Nazism.

                      It’s not a pretty picture, or a tidy one. But right wingers ought to at least try to get it right, and maybe learn from it.

                    4. Look around the comments. Nazis were Lefty Socialists.

                    5. Yup awildseaking.

                      Lefties hate stuff like that which the internet makes available to anyone. No keepers of the secrets.

                      Poor Lefties. The internet really is not their friend.

              3. Eric, you’re wrong. Clearly, LC, myself, Jesse, etc. are all products of superior education and superior intellect. I know you can’t possibly understand that, due to your cognitive deficiencies, but it is absolutely true.

                1. Eric, you’re wrong. Clearly, LC, myself, Jesse, etc. are all products of superior education and superior intellect.

                  That’s the funniest thing I’ve read all day. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha

                  1. McGoop the troll showed up. Trolls are just bouncing between socks.

                    1. You would know all about that eh, comrade?

                    2. Yeah, we clearly see you McGoop bouncing around backing up other troll socks.

                    3. It’s because you’re a blind fool, Comrade. Out of curiosity, who do you think I’m socking for? This should be interesting.

                  2. It probably doesn’t take much to amuse a drooling simpleton like you Jizzboy. Are you a pedo soyboy like Jeffy and PB?

                    1. Are you a pedo soyboy like Jeffy and PB?

                      I find it curious that you seem to have an obsession with pedos…..hmmmm.

                    2. Pedo Mcgoop, PB and Chemjeff are spreading their sickness around here.

          2. There’s nothing remotely objective about that characterization. Other than a braindead reading of conservatism as “conserving” something, none of the politics of fascists are right-wing. They are blatantly anti-capitalist because it undermines the nation state by requiring cultural replacement to maintain the economy of populations that choose not to reproduce at replacement levels.

            1. Objective analysis requires looking at ALL of the data/inputs. You’ve analyzed one dataset (their hatred for liberalism). Keep going.

              1. The burden of proof is on you to name right-wing principles that fascists abide by. And don’t go for a cop out that has nothing to do with ideology.

                1. Let’s start with Ethno-Nationalism. But you’re going to move the goalpost like Dizzle does below, right? You’re going to tell me how Aryanism, racial preference and bigotry are actually left-wing.
                  I’ve known this for a while, but engaging with you all is useless. Best let you circle-jerk in peace.

                  1. So Robert Mugabe is right wing then? So were jewish Kibbutz’s? Makes sense to me. I’m not seeing a particular pattern of ethnocentric behavior tied to left or right wing groups. That seems to exist outside the left/right spectrum as we know it in the United States. It seems to only be tied to the right as a way for the left to shoehorn the word racist into another polemic about their political opponents.

                  2. Let’s start with Ethno-Nationalism.

                    How is that explicitly a right-wing principle? That’s pretty much every third-world nation, post-Bandung, most of whom subscribed to the economic theories and anti-colonialism of left-wing European academics, as the leaders of these movements had frequently been educated in the universities of those nations prior to and in the immediate wake of World War II.

                  3. Ethno-nationalism is not right wing in any capacity. You’re just dropping random ideas that Nazis believe in and you aren’t even trying to connect them to actual right wing principles. Your circular reasoning is shit and I’m glad you’re fucking off.

                  4. Racism is a hallmark of the left. Always has been. You’re just too stupid to understand anything beyond the pablum Media Matters directs you to puke up to us.

                2. Pretty much everyone who has tried to define fascist ideology has fallen into difficulties. That’s because historical fascists were all over the map with regard to ideology. What they were consistent about, as a matter of history, was opportunism?including opportunism about the ideologies they espoused. And they were consistently violent anti-leftist. And consistent opponents of liberalism and constitutionalism. And eventually, before too long, they became consistent totalitarians.

                  If you want accurate insight into fascism and Nazism, you have to define them by what they did, not by what they said they believed. What they did, in the political context of their time and place?a context very much defined by political polarization involving socialists and communists on one hand, and an alliance of right wing opponents on the other?was consistently right wing. Anyone who ignores that, and tries instead to cite some specific ideological utterance as definitive of fascism or Nazism, doesn’t understand what happened.

                  1. Anyone who ignores that, and tries instead to cite some specific ideological utterance as definitive of fascism or Nazism, doesn’t understand what happened.

                    100% agree with you. However, there is a black hole of stupid that has been infesting the commentary here and seems focused on re-writing history so that every bad thing that ever happened since the fall of man is the fault of the political left. They’re easily identified as the guys calling everyone pedophiles.

                  2. “If you want accurate insight into fascism and Nazism, you have to define them by what they did, not by what they said they believed. What they did, in the political context of their time and place?a context very much defined by political polarization involving socialists and communists on one hand, and an alliance of right wing opponents on the other?was consistently right wing.”

                    I would be inclined to agree, except there are pretty much zero real world examples of “left wing” governments, good or bad, that I can think of when judging by actions alone. The USSR was right wing. The Maoist China was right wing. etc. etc. Is it not better to judge them by the rhetoric used to seek and gain the power that allowed them to “turn” or “remain” right wing?

                    Also, this is why dividing political movements into left/right is stupid.

                    1. Jesus. The thread is dead and your comments have been debunked on here over and over.

                      Try and more recent article, so we can point out the flaws in your positions again.

          3. This is patently false. Right and left have to do with the amount of control a government exerts over its people and economy. Left on the scale is more, to the point of communism. Right on the scale is less control, to the point of libertopia.

            The only people who think otherwise are dopes like you too stupid to realize fascism only grows from socialism because in order to impose all these controls on its a people, a leader needs the requisite mechanisms to implement them. Freer societies do not provide such mechanisms, only those with large government control apparatuses do.

            1. Goal posts moved to fit your narrative. Read up on the history of the right/left. I’d hardly say that Monarchism equals liberty.

              1. Likewise. Were the anti-monarchy founding fathers left wing or right wing. If they are right wing how can they be anti-monarchy? If they are left wing would the policies they espoused fit well with your own policy preferences as a left wing person? If not how are they left wing?

                1. The Founders were Centrists about where Libertarians are. Right-Wing are Monarchists and conservatives. Left-wing are Communists, Socialists, and Democrats.

                  Its how on a Political Spectrum, the Founders were anti-Monarchy and anti-Communist type state (before there was the term Communism).

                  Its how the Founders advocate revolution (Left-Wing) from a Monarchy but want a tiny and small government to prevent every revolution (Conservative).

                  Centrists have the range to be the most free, have the most rights, and be the least authoritarian like the Left and Right extremes.

                  1. I wouldn’t describe the founders as centrists based on the contemporary definition of left/right/centrist.

                    1. They had stronger morals than most people today.

                2. rudehost, the founders were revolutionists, who brought something new into the world?real constitutionalism. The dialectic they struggled over had to do with theories of sovereignty, not with the political right, or the political left. What they accomplished left all the left/right polarities to the people, and to the future.

                  Considering left/right political views as a matter of personal preference among the founders?a question which was and is largely irrelevant to the founding itself?you could find left wing views, and right wing views among the various founders?and in the more complex individuals, such as Jefferson and Franklin, you could find left and right views melded in one person.

                  1. Yeah, thats why the federalists and anti-federalists went after each other.

                    Some people really need to brush up on the basics of history.

      2. Fascism relies on centralized control and planning. Fascism is defined on the authoritarian scale. It can both be left and right. As for racist or ethnic nationalism… what the fuck do you think intersectionality is?

        1. Fascism relies on centralized control and planning

          Which is nowhere in the left/right spectrum, you dumb fuck.

          Left wing = egalitarianism/equality.

          right wing – favored class, race, or ethnic group.

          1. You have a link to that delirious Political Spectrum, right PB, I Mean moneyshot?

          2. It’s very encouraging to see you condemn this Islamophobic attack in such strong terms. Your inspiration Palin’s Buttplug used to say terrible things about Islam and Muslims. I’m glad you haven’t incorporated that aspect of his commenting style.

            #MoneyshotIsTheNewPalinsButtplug
            #(ButWithoutTheIslamophobia)

          3. Stop proving you are a fucking idiot. Again. Intersectionality. The root basis in the ideal is racism and differences. Literally what you put on the right scale you dumb fuck. The left has been racial focused since before the kkk.

            The only side arguing for equality of treatment and opportunity right now is the right dumb fuck. The left wants reparations, extra benefits, and equality of outcome, which requires authoritarian behavior you raving lunatic.

            1. A more honest debate would be framed as pro-freedom vs pro-authority.

              Neither left or right is that pro-freedom.

          4. The traditional left/right schism is a European anachronism. Left Wingers wanted state control of the means of production and the Right Wingers wanted private control that was subordinate to the state. The fascists didn’t have the government in control of companies, they just installed party members as the leaders.

            Both wings just assume a strong state, and both believe institutional violence is acceptable to meet these ends. To lay racism at the feet of Right Wingers is to ignore the heavily racist policies of many left wing institutions, including Pol Pot, Soviet Union and the Chinese Communist Party.

            Why we try to define our politics in the spectrum of some European model is baffling to me. Europe is the source of most of the world’s worst ideologies- Imperialism, Communism, Fascism, Colonialism. Any framework out of that has-been continent should be viewed with heavy skepticism.

            1. +1

              Even the Founders took a few Renaissance and french Republic ideals and took them in different directions. The Europeans are mostly fine with oppressing people.

          5. Fascism relies on centralized control and planning

            Which is nowhere in the left/right spectrum, you dumb fuck.

            Jessie LITERALLY said this when he said Fascism is on the authoritarian scale (as opposed to the Left/Right economic scale). Take some time to comprehend what you’re reading. It will pay off in the long run.

            1. shriek/Palin’s Buttplug/moneyshot is too busy trying to figure out how to post kiddie porn links on HnR again to actually read anything.

            2. PB has a tiny mind, with stunted dreams. That is why he is a progtard. They cater to weak little minds.

          6. PB also forgot to list how leftists favor pedophiles and love raping children. Like he does.

      3. I view the political spectrum as more of a circle. If you go far enough left or right you wind up in the same authoritarian place that most people call Fascism.

        1. On a Left-Right Political Spectrum, you can have authoritarianism and fascism at the extreme ends.

          Libertarianism in the center and less freedoms as you expand out either direction.

          I have seen the circle but Monarchy/Theocracy at the far Right-Wing has very different elements than Communism and Socialism at the far Left-Wing.

      4. shrike, most progressives would consider you to be a ‘right winger’. You would find yourself in the queue with the rest of us waiting to get the chop.

        1. shrike, most progressives would consider you to be a ‘right winger’. You would find yourself in the queue with the rest of us waiting to get the chop

          I am constantly called a right winger by progressives. I despise Bernie Sanders more than I do Trump.

          1. Yes. You would say, correct me if I’m wrong, that you want the economic freedom to invest and spend your money as you see fit.

            Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, AOC and company don’t want you or me to have that freedom.

            So what are we going to do? We’re in the minority.

    3. The racist left usually goes for segregation.

      1. They need a revolution to get Anarchy-Land or Communist-Land from the ashes since they cannot get it where people are mostly free.

        Race War catches the propagandist media’s attention.

        Charles Manson tried the same stupid shit.

    4. You are dumbfounded that people are labeling things the same way they always do?

    5. Most of this “right-wing” labeling is the fault of the media finding easy pigeon-holes in which to put people. This leads to everything being lazily classified as right or left. That ignores that right-left is a spectrum and further ignores that right-left a rather inadequate way of classifying everything.
      Here in the States, where we’ve got a defacto two-party system, it leads to seeing everything as Red vs Blue (with unfortunately less comedic aspects as the Roosterteeth video series).
      I’m surprised someone in the media hasn’t tried to classify AntiFa as “right-wing” yet. It would make at least as much sense as putting an eco-fascist on the right.

    6. I love the dialogue in this thread. It is clear that PB and Eric are trying to reframe history. The far left began in France killing people for their own good, and perfected it over the next 200 years culminating in the USSR and PRC. Stalin and Mao figured out the secret. The Jacobins just didnt chop off enough heads.

      Today’s left is not any different, they just disguise it under the cloaks of racial equality and environmentalism. The ultimate goal of their policies: everyone will end up equal; in poverty and/or dead.

      The author wouldnt have been justified in calling him part of “the racial right” even if he hadn’t presented himself as a warrior for social justice in his fucking manifesto. Just like the racist, immigrant-hating, misogynistic Jacobins of old.

  6. We found those terrorists you were looking for Trump.

    1. They were Muslim too. Worked out.

    2. I would dare you to Google recent Christian church bombings but I dont want to ruin your veil of ignorance. Media just doesnt seem to care about those in other countries.

      1. I was making reference to Trump wanting to turn drug dealing into terrorism.

        1. And I was referring to how ignorant you are.

        2. Poor Ordinary Person was not informed that Drug Cartels use violence for political aims which is literally the definition of Terrorism.

          They also sell drugs. They also dabble in prostitution. They also dabble in bribery. They also dabble in theft. They also dabble in kidnapping. They also dabble in vandalism. They also dabble in violating US Immigration laws.

  7. BBC News- NZ shootings

    Decent updates overall.

    Notice how militarized NZ police are. I would say that these mass shootings are where SWAT type police units are reasonable but these kinds of cops don’t just sit around and twiddle their thumbs for 10 years between shootings.

    Definitely a Worldwide issue of militarized police forces.

    1. Actually, it seems that New Zealand cops don’t generally carry firearms.

      Maybe they’ll rethink their policy after this.

      1. They seemed to respond fairly quickly with firearms- but yeah, had police had firearms, could they have prevented some of the deaths?

        1. They seemed to respond fairly quickly with firearms- but yeah, had police had firearms, could they have prevented some of the deaths?

          I’d be in favor of letting police decide individually if this represented enough of a threat for them to arm themselves at all times and to stop doing so once they decided it no longer represented enough of a threat.

          1. To me its just stupid to have disarmed police and certainly disarmed populace.

            The police are supposed to be able to handle violent violations of people’s rights and stop that violence. If the bad guys have guns and you don’t, you cannot do your job.

      2. There is almost always an AR and some Glocks in the patrol car they ride around in. So they don’t “carry”, but they’re not far away from a firearm when it’s needed.

        1. Are you a Libertarian in New Zealand?

          1. Pretty much yes. And a firearms license holder. And a guy with a trans-Girlfriend. I cover all the bases.

            1. Glad youre here then. Please keep us updated with this story because American media will lose interest quickly on this shooting once it doesn’t result in more gun control here in the USA.

              1. Yeah well the short answer is we’re almost certainly going to lose our access (or at the very least easy access) to semi-auto’s because of one fucking Australian fucking idiot. AKA the Australian solution. Thanks twice Australia – you fucks.

                So not only am I in shock and depression on this bullshit being pulled in my country – one that doesn’t even have a radical islamist problem – but I’m also fucked off about having at least half my firearms probably confiscated.

                1. Yeah sux that you guys dont have a second amendment to protect Arms from government seizure.

                  Maybe someday, I will link to some of my arsenal.

                  .50 cal rifle (pride and joy), 5.56mm SAW, MP5, AK-47, 81mm mortar, MG42….

                  Love that right of the People to keep and bear Arms!

  8. Right wing terrorism is up everywhere. Just in the US the kill count is over 60-1 vs left wing terrorists (since 9/11).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism

    1. I didn’t know worker’s rights, anti-capitalism and environmentalism were right wing now.

    2. The list in your link seems suspect.

    3. Go ahead ahead and count 911, just blame bush and you can have all those juicy numbers!

      1. I suppose islamic terrorists are right wing in a lot of ways.

        1. Muslim terrorists (ISIS) are simply religious Socialists who want to take over via revolution.

          Iran is a Right-wing Theocracy now. More conservative than most states around today. They started as Left-wing religious terrorists who successfully overthrew a Monarchy (Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, Shahanshah of Iran from 1941 to 1979, was the last ruler to hold the title of Shah).

          1. Very few extreme movements, especially religious ones, fit neatly into left or right. ISIS and their ilk may be socialist, but they are also highly traditionalist and conservative. When your culture doesn’t have a tradition of individual and economic freedom, “conservative” or “right” is going to mean something very different from what it does in the US.

            1. On the Left-Right Political Spectrum, it does not matter where in the World you are, you fit somewhere.

              Russians, Chinese, Americans, British, Australians, South Africans…

              If they want a government, they are somewhere on the Spectrum.

              Now you Anarchists, I am not sure where you would fall on that L-R Political Spectrum. You often get lumped in with Communists at the Left-Wing but I am not convinced that is accurate. Libertarians are Centrist but Anarchists are not Libertarians, as they don’t want a government as we know it.

              1. We *don’t* fit on it, thus the 2 axis Nolan chart.

                1. Big problem with the Nolan Chart.

                  Libertarianism is not the opposite of Authoritarianism.

                  Libertarians are okay with tiny and limited government which to an Anarchist is some authoritarianism.

    4. I knew you were fucking retarded money shot, but no need to double down on it with that glaringly incorrect assessment argued with back and forth by liberal activists to add any and all non political shootings to the right.

      1. Moneyshot is almost OBL level satire of the unhinged left.

        1. Including the pedophilia obsession.

    5. PB I’m not clicking on your link. It’s probably some disguised oedophile bullshit. You fucking kiddie raper.

    6. That’s pretty convenient to exclude 9/11 isn’t it?

      Include 9/11 and the count is like 4,000 to immaterial.

      Plus, even the FBI refuses to count obvious Islamic terrorism as Islamic terrorism such as the DC Beltway sniper.

      And, much of the so-called “right wing” terrorism is simply violence.

      Can Muslims cause violence that is not religious?

      I suppose so, but since their religion essentially treats ALL non-Muslims as non-human and preaches that the infidels can be disposed of in any manner a Muslim sees fit to do then one could say that ALL Muslim violence on infidels is religious violence.

      1. Progressives redefine words and morals moment by moment.

  9. It’s pathetic how you quoted from the manifesto but clearly cherry picked by trying to pin this against political right wingers. He even addressed this subject in the manifesto. These ethno nationalist types don’t fit the right/left paradigm. They don’t even fit on a political compass. Stop being a partisan hack and try to address the underlying issue here; that people feel threatened by mass migration and cultural replacement and are justifying their violence not through hatred, but fear of self preservation.

  10. “After all who can remember the name of the attackers in the September 11 attack in New York?”

    Um, lots of people?

    1. It was Bush, right?

    2. Mohammed Atta’s name is pretty well known. The other 18? Not so much.

      1. Atta boy!

        1. Up and Atta them!

      2. Everyone in the whole fucking world, people living under rocks, have heard of the man who planned that attack. Almost everyone remembers the name “Al Qaeda.” Many people also know high-ranking members of Al Qaeda, like Abu Musad al-Zarqawi.

        The reason people don’t remember the 18 names is that it’s 18 names (and long names), and you can’t hold them all your brain at once. Short term memory only processes 7-10 items at once. People will remember lone wolf attackers.

        1. Not necessarily. I don’t remember the names of these lone wolf guys because its not important. They are abnormalities to an otherwise relatively peaceful USA.

          Socialism is much more of a threat to me and my family. Socialism killed 100 million people last Century. Socialists are trying to top that record in the 21st Century.

          1. I suspect you’re lying. You remember the name of the guy who shot JFK, right? The guy who shot Kennedy? The OKC bomber? The Unabomber? The Charleston church shooter? The Sandy Hook shooter?

            Maybe you don’t remember all of those, but I suspect most of those names are in your head. People have easier time coping when they can just put a single face to evil. It’s why it’s easier to just imagine that assassinating Hitler would have been sufficient to end/prevent WW2, or for others to pin all the evils of the USSR on Stalin.

            1. Who shot JR?

              1. His sister in law Kristin.

                I’m a huge Dallas fan. Larry Hagman as JR was awesome.

            2. Charleston shooter- nope.
              Sandy Hook shooter- nope.
              Who shot the ArchDuke Ferdinand- nope.

              The OKC bomber and JFK shooter I have to think a few seconds to remember.

              The Charleston shooter is irrelevant in historically large terms. He wont impact which direction the USA goes. Maybe multiple mass shooters lumped together for political purposes but not by themselves. Even the guy who shot Reagan only go the Brady Bill passed which was more incremental gun grabbing.

              1. Who shot Buckwheat? John David Stutz

              2. Oswald (assuming for the sake of discussion that he indeed was the shooter), was a communist who had previously defected to Russia, and later returned to the US.

                Tim McVeigh was not strongly left or right, but was motivated by an obsession with the federal govt.’s slaughter at WACO.

            3. The OKC bomber was not a lone wolf. Nichols helped him.

  11. He also mentions conservative activist Candace Owens, declaring that she is “the person that has influenced me above all.”

    …right

    1. I lost it at the part about Spyro 3 and Fortnite.

    2. Owens or Trump whom he called a “symbol of white identity and common purpose.”

      1. Ilhan Omar is a symbol of white identity too because she named the Jew. The alt-right loves her.

        1. David Duke said she’s the most important representative in Congress and Pat Buchanan has written several articles praising Omar.

      2. When I think white identity, obviously the first thing that comes to mind is a black woman.

        1. Ben Carson is a white supremacist. Or did you forget?

        2. Anything that furthers white identity movements, unintentionally or not, is appreciated by white identitarians. That’s why Duke praises Omar for naming the Jew; in his warped worldview, Jews run the world and orchestrate the mass importation of third worlders who outbreed whites into western nations

          1. Nazis brought Muslims into the SS toward the end of WWII.

            These groups are fine with using other groups to further their goals.

            Democrats have been using Jews for their money for decades while slowly moving America away from Israel.

  12. Report: Good Guy with Gun Chased, Shot at New Zealand Attackers

    The New Zealand Herald reports that the local man with the gun fired on the shooters after they unleashed “multiple gunshots” on the mosque in Linwood. The armed man ran after the shooters, firing two shots at them with “a rifle or shotgun” as they undertook their escape.

    Wait! How is this going to fit the Narrative that guns are always bad and never help people? In this case, an armed person prevented more people from getting shot.

    1. “ran after the shooters”, plural? I thought there was just one attacker. The whole thing was live-streamed on Facebook, right?

      1. Are you wondering whether or not the person shooting back at the shooters actually occurred?

      2. I saw some other person in camo being arrested.

        Evidently 4 people were arrested in connection to the shooting. Only the guy on the video was immediately charged with a crime.

        Still kid of surprising that these shooters were okay with being captured. I mean, if you have a cause like that being a martyr tends to make a bigger statement.

        Of course, some people like the opportunity to use a courtroom as a pulpit. Hitler used that courtroom tactic.

        1. Pretty sure there’s no death penalty in NZ either.

          1. Much like the shooter in Norway who this shooter modeled himself after and is already out of prison.

            1. Wait, that sick fuck is out of prison? What the hell?

              1. Assuming he meant Anders Breivik, he would be wrong as Breivik is still in jail, at least per his Wikipedia page.

              2. He’s not out. Norway’s prison system works differently, arguably better, than ours. IANA*N*L but… no matter how heinous a crime, you’re up for parole after a handful of years. For some, like Breivik, it’s a quick trip to the courtroom for the judge to say ‘Denied’, but for others it’s a way around issues like wrongful convictions, mandatory minimums, and overcrowding.

                1. Notice the wikiPedia page says that Breivik states that he is a Nazi.

                  Left-wing Socialists with racism and nationalism as some of their fundamentals.

          2. NZ abolished the death penalty thirty years ago.

  13. What a dick

  14. “The alleged gunman makes several references to the United States, expressing hope that his shooting will result in calls for more gun control and that white Americans will have to “fight to protect your rights and the constitution.”

    Well, he could have just moved to San Francisco or New York City and run for city council as a Democrat.

    Isn’t this, in fact, what the progressives will do?

    When mass-murdering terrorists tell the progressives to jump, the progressives only stop to ask, “How high?”.

    1. God damn you manage to misunderstand everything. The racist wants to incite rightwingers wants them to jump.

      1. “The alleged gunman makes several references to the United States, expressing hope that his shooting will result in calls for more gun control”

        Do you not understand what that sentence says?

        1. Because he wanted to trigger a violent backlash. Not because he sincerely believed that gun control was a good idea.

          1. He wanted to trigger progressives to enact gun control laws.

            You’re as predictable as the sunrise.

            When racist terrorist mass murderers want you to do something, do you what they say?

            1. This nut wanted gun control so that it would trigger a violent backlash.
              Progressives tend to want gun control because they think it is a good idea.
              Wanting gun control cynically because you want to harness the rage to trigger violent unrest, is hardly a ringing endorsement of the merits of gun control.
              And I don’t favor either position.
              Clear enough for you?

              1. He says he perpetrated it to provoke progressives to enact gun control–because progressives always support gun control in the wake of mass shootings.

                You seem to stutter when people point out this fact, but your stuttering doesn’t change the fact that progressives always support gun control in the wake of mass shootings and this terrorist says he perpetrated this mass murder for that reason.

                1. You seem to stutter when people point out this fact, but your stuttering doesn’t change the fact that progressives always support gun control in the wake of mass shootings and this terrorist says he perpetrated this mass murder for that reason.

                  Okay, and? You think that says something bad about progressives, that this guy is trying to cynically use them?

                  1. “You think that says something bad about progressives, that this guy is trying to cynically use them?”

                    Yes, the stupid knee jerk attempt to sell our constitutional rights down the river every time you progressives find a new pile of dead bodies to stand on is authoritarian, ghoulish and stupid. It’s no surprise that a depraved mind would think to give you more piles of bodies to stand on to expose yourselves as authoritarian assholes. Aren’t you in the least bit embarrassed to have invited this mass shooting in this way?

                    1. So this is Ken’s argument in a nutshell:

                      Libertarian: I support deregulating businesses!

                      Evil Nutjob: Well, then let me dump cyanide in the water, furthering my evil plan to kill children, hoping that it will foment a backlash against those deregulatory libertarians!

                      Ken: See, you libertarians? If you didn’t support all that deregulation, then Evil Nutjob wouldn’t have a pretext to kill children! Aren’t you ashamed of yourselves?

              2. Pedo Jeffy, this is all very complicated, and very much above the head of a simple little pedo like you. You should probably just go back to your migrant pedo videos and let the adults in the room talk.

                1. All I hear is buzz buzz buzz. Shoo, fly.

              3. This nut wanted gun control so that it would trigger a violent backlash.

                Seems much more likely.

            2. It only takes a decent observer to notice that America could have Civil War 2.0 relatively easily if:
              1.Government tried to ban/seize all guns

              Non-Americans seem to believe our American Propagandists that a Race War is imminent in the USA.

              Socialists have been spreading nonsense Race War propaganda for decades. Some people believe it.

          2. Yeah, but this seems really weird. The references to the preferred baddies and all the references to American politics from a guy living in New Zealand. Granted that crazy people say strange things

            1. I read news sources from all over the world. I’ve read a lot of Australian news, in particular, and spent a lot of time in comments.

              You would be surprised how much attention American news gets elsewhere in the world. People in Australian know a hell of a lot more about what’s happening in America than Americans pay attention to what’s happening in Australia, that’s for sure.

              Gun control is still a big topic in Australia since Howard implemented gun control in the wake of a mass shooting, too. Every mass shooting that happens in the U.S. makes the news there.

              1. Are shootings in America still used to justify the gun bans/confiscation schemes in Australia?

                I used to pay attention to Australian opinions but that country seems to be completely pussified now.

              2. OK, fair enough. PewdiePie still seems like an exceptionally weird person to reference.

                1. IIRC, Guy became famous for video commenting during First-Person Shooter video games.

                  All that cold fries some Swedish brains.

                2. pewdiepie has become very political and is pretty libertarian actually and surprisingly intelligent. I never would have believed it if someone had told me the future of the guy the first time I saw one of his video game clips; he was unbearable and annoying and came across like a moron

        2. Being a liberal isn’t a provocation. The way you tell it the hippies were responsible for Nixon’s fascist scheming. tbe Weimar Republic and war reparations responsible for Hitler.

          1. “tbe Weimar Republic and war reparations responsible for Hitler”

            That’s what right-winger Keynes believed.

            1. To be honest, I have no idea what the Weimar Republic and war reparations has to do with “liberal”, but you basically make as much sense as LC, but in reverse, so it does make sense in a certain tribal and nonsensical way.

              1. His programmer gets talking points all jumbled.

                Trolls have trouble with cause and effect relationship correlations.

              2. “I have no idea”

                Your ignorance is a problem. The Weimar Republic was a liberal govt. Germany was a remarkably liberal place in the 1920s. Hitler rose to power in a certain sense as an unjustified backlash to this liberal Germany.
                He and his conservative backers used the Weimar Republic as a foil, blamed the economic troubles on the weak liberal Weimar Republic, blamed the WR for paying the war reparations, blamed liberalism for Germany’s defeat in WW1, etc. So now you know the relationship between ww1 German reparations and liberal.

                1. You seem pretty profoundly ignorant about world history and you seem to use “conservative” in the American sense with “conservative” in the European sense and then lump them all in with “fascism” which literally makes no sense. And then you seem to want to assign the word “liberal” to everything associated with sunshine and lollipops.

                  American “conservatives” are part of the liberal tradition. And European “conservatives” were not allied with Nazis, but were allied with the Weimar Republic that was fighting off a socialist uprising.

                  If you don’t understand how the erratic Weimar Republic, coupled with inflation, and large war debts led to the rise of the Nazi party (within the Weimar Republic) then you don’t understand much.

                2. Hitler was an authoritarian left socialist. Like a more anti Semitic Obama, with fewer checks and balances.

                  1. Hitler was an authoritarian left socialist. Like a more anti Semitic Obama, with fewer checks and balances.

                    No dumbfuck, he was an authoritarian nationalist with ideals much more similar to der trumpemfuhrer than obozo. Sorry.

                    1. “For once, the person that will be called a fascist, is an actual fascist. I am sure the journalists will love that.
                      I mostly agree with Sir Oswald Mosley’s views and consider myself an Eco-fascist by nature.
                      The nation with the closest political and social values to my own is the People’s Republic of China.”

                      It’s really good that you guys are debating what you are all so certain about. Try to square that circle super smart guys.

                    2. It’s called shitposting and baiting. Look it up…….or just read the comments at Reason for examples.

                    3. McGoop the troll hates that Nazis are Socialists.

                    4. Poor Comrade1789 hates that Nazi’s were whiny nationalists… just like him.

                    5. Poor McGoop does not understand that Monarch and Communists can be Nationalists. Complete opposite ends of the L-R Political Spectrum.

                      Its why Nazis are Lefty, Socialists, Racists, Nationalists, and “Democratic Socialists”.

                    6. No he isn’t Jizzdouche. Trump is deregulating the federal govt.. Obama’s policies are very much inline with things Hitler did as part of his domestic policy.

                      Get your fucking head out of Media Matter’s ass some day and learn some thing for a change. You are incredibly ignorant.

                    7. Obama’s policies are very much inline with things Hitler did as part of his domestic policy.

                      Such as? Your citation fell off again……

                      Trump is deregulating the federal govt..

                      And I’m happy about that. He’s doing a good job in many areas.

                    8. “Obama’s policies are very much in line with things Hitler did as part of his domestic policy”

                      I mean, minus the genocide you’re pretty on the mark here. But what’s a few million innocent lives when future of the nation is at stake, right?

  15. “to ensure the existence of our people and a future for white children.”

    That’s very close to the infamous fourteen words. What a piece of shit.

  16. “At the rally, I met Tiffany Cab?n, a charismatic young public defender who is running for Queens district attorney. Cab?n is endorsed by the Democratic Socialists of America, who recently helped Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez win the Democratic congressional primary and general election in New York’s 14th District, which includes part of Queens. (For full disclosure, I am a member of the DSA.)”

    —-Molly Crabapple, NYRB

    http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2…..or-reform/

    This is a good example of political association ruining everything.

    Molly Crabapple used to be fun.

    The New York Review of Books used to be a great read.

    The New York Review of Books fired its Chief Editor over #MeToo concerns, not because of anything he did or said or wrote but because of things that someone wrote in a piece he approved.

    Now, reading the New York Review of Books is like reading the opinion columns in The Washington Post or New York Times.

    If Molly Crabapple is now a self-described socialist, instead of being a sex-positive artist/anti-artist, and she wants us to support her socialist “Whore but Organized” prostitution legalization class revolution?

    I do not oppose legalizing prostitution. I will not support socialists or socialism.

    I saw the same thing happen when watermelons took over environmentalism. Socialism ruins everything.

    1. P.S. “When you carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain’t gonna make it with anyone anyhow”.

    2. Geez, I forgot this wasn’t morning links!

  17. It seems a little too “on the nose” that he cites PewdiePie who has been labeled a “Nazi” by the lazy corporate press, but isn’t political at all. How much of these “news reports” are a 4Chan troll?

    Who cites themselves as an “eco-fascist” and then cites Candace Owens and PewdiePie? I don’t think anyone on the American Right is known for promoting environmentalism.

    1. From what I have read, he’s an alt-right white nationalist moron, peddling in all of the same tropes like “white genocide”.

      1. Sure. I’m just saying that a lot of this seems strange. I’m just wondering if 4chan is trolling reporters. They are known to do weird stuff like that

    2. I appreciate what you’re saying, but I also think it’s risky to assume that nutjobs are rational.

      1. I’m not questioning anything about what happened. I’m just wondering if 4chan is messing with reporters. I don’t think it’s a leap to believe that a racially motivated attack against Muslims would occur. I do think it’s unbelievably weird that the shooter would reference PewdiePie and Candace Owens, though.

        1. Took me a while, but I finally got what you’re saying!

          1. I think he actively did everything he could to embrace the stereotype of a 4chan troll. It’s like when you can recognize a hoax story by seeing that everything is a bit too much on the nose.

            There’s no denying that someone who can do this is a psychopath whose brain works differently from those of the rest of humanity. I think he’s getting off on being manipulative as fuck as well.

        2. I think he literally said these things on the live feed while he was shooting, so there is a record of it and that is where it is coming from and not from anonymous online tips (4-chan)….

          however 4-chan can be devious and its not totally crazy to imagine them fooling some reporters with a dubbed over version of the live-feed and that some reporters (many of whom don’t bother to verify sources) ran with it wanting to be ‘first’..

    3. He’s a crazy person. There’s no making sense of it.

    4. I’m pretty fucking sure this guy wanted to troll the entire world by sharing bullshit ideologies. He claimed Fortnight taught him how to shoot. He claimed Spyro the Dragon 3 taught him the importance of ethnic purity. He outright stated his goals were to try to spike tensions in the American right/left divide.

      Fortunately, most people aren’t actively seeking out people to heap violence upon them. He’s not likely to start open conflict.

  18. And by the way, people.
    It’s okay to denounce mass-murdering terrorists.

    1. Even offer thought and prayers?

      1. NRA is not allowed.

    2. Now Jeffy, remember, it won’t help NZ to try and sneak your pedo Central American friends down there. Or your kiddie porn videos.

      Only PB/Moneyshot likes those.

  19. Remember the Seminole Indian who lived in his van and sent package bombs to Trump-haters all over USA, including Pelosi and Soros?. Maybe 6-9 mos ago? Experts guaranteed they were real bombs. Media went nuts, wall to wall on story.

    Now nothing on story. Nothing. I am wondering what the prosecutors ended up charging, what they settled for.

    Now the NZ mass killer. Horrible, hideous. Also proof once again that the police are not going to arrive in time to save dozens of people. Documented 90% of shooting incidents they get there and start putting up yellow tape, locating surviving victims, and interviewing.

    1. If non-Lefties cannot be quickly vilified from an event, what is the point for propagandists revisiting some newsworthy item?

  20. I am going with just the eco-freak part of this, and call for AOC and all who have approved of the green new deal to immediately resign from any and all public offices and retire into obscurity.
    For the children.

    1. No. He called himself an environmentalist in order to discredit environmentalists. Apparently, everything the guy did was for the opposite purpose, except when he identified PewdiePie and Candace Owen. Apparently that was sincere.

  21. Another fucking psychopath looking for his 15 minutes at the expense of innocent others.

    I doubt many liberal outfits will report that he was finally run off by someone returning fire…

    1. No, that doesn’t fit the narrative. Propaganda always Trump’s facts when it comes to leftist news outlets. Got to stay on course with that narrative.

    1. Worse, he’s Australian

      1. Aussie. Come on, man!

  22. denounces Muslims “choosing to invade our lands live on our soil and replace our people.”

    Yea no other group of people have ever done that. that said he is pointing out teh fact that if the aborigines in Australia and the Indians of North America had been more protective of their homelands they might be better off, however wherever white man has treaded life is better all others are still in the dark ages

    1. Good job. You’ve discovered that this man may not be logically consistent. You sure showed him.

    2. They were. They were just on the unfortunate side of disease immunity (there was a 50/50 chance it could have been the other way around), and didn’t have the technology to compete. Still, no European settlers, especially the conquistadors, would have been able to take any territory without the help of other Native tribes more than happy to help commit genocide against their rival Native tribes and oppressors.

      Even without the Europeans, the world was universally violent and genocidal. Look at the Maori. The British had to pass a law to stop selling guns to the Maori, not because the Maori were using the guns against them, but because Maori civil wars and tribal battles had led to tens of thousands of deaths and just as many slaves taken, so the British tried to stem the violence by cutting them off.

      Every single group of people tells themselves lies and relies on historical revisionism to absolve themselves of the sins of the past. White Europeans are the only ones who go out of their way to to do the opposite and recognize it.

  23. The alleged gunman makes several references to the United States, expressing hope that his shooting will result in calls for more gun control and that white Americans will have to “fight to protect your rights and the constitution.” He also mentions conservative activist Candace Owens, declaring that she is “the person that has influenced me above all.” That part is likely sarcastic?he goes on to say that he has “to disavow some of her beliefs, the extreme actions she calls for are too much, even for my tastes.”

    Boy, there’s a lot to unpack here. I’m still trying to figure out the ‘eco-fascist’ bit.

  24. Oh, tsk tsk tsk…. Golly gee — gum shucks~ After decades of Muslims shooting things up and committing all sorts of acts of terror with knives guns, bombs and planes, the Muslims finally got some back by one of their potential allies since both groups hate the Jews. The irony is too delicious. Should I weep when these religion of peace types get killed? I remember the clucks of approval worldwide when my Rabbi was shot by Al Qaeda in New York. You won’t find any rending of garments or donning of sack cloth by me. The more of those savages killed, the less will be around to do their acts of terror. If none of you like what I said, when have you ever liked what I said on this subject? Are you all going to call me names? Oh dear, not that!

    There’s no ned to fear;. Underzog is here. and oid Kahane chai (Rabbi Kahane lives)

  25. Tony will be along shortly to implore us not to generalize about all eco-fascists, most of whom go about their lives peacefully voting for politicians to do the violence for thrm

  26. RE: “…to ensure the existence of our people and a future for white children.”

    Oh brother. Look up “the fourteen words” if you don’t already know what that is. This guy has been drinking the kool-aid.

    1. Whiite supremacists? Muslims? Both sides hate the Jews and I hope both sides kill each other. The 14 words? This “eco fascist” forgot 88 at the end of the 14 words, Yanno 1488.

  27. So, other than Setyon and/or Walker, who exactly is alleging that this was an act of ‘eco-fascism’?

    This article is the only instance I’ve seen thus far of such motivation being ascribed.

    1. All these shooters are found to be Lefties with Socialist/Nazi/Fascist/Communist type desires.

      Walker and Seyton are trying to do what they do- deflect Lefty ideology into some conservative boogieman.

  28. “So, other than Setyon and/or Walker, who exactly is alleging that this was an act of ‘eco-fascism’?”

    There are a number on this board who have already taken to parroting this line. Also a smaller number who are questioning it.

  29. I would argue no left/right divide exists and that the very argument is a strawman setup by socialists.

    The reality is socialism versus everyone else.

    This is why the Left keep disavowing fascism as being leftist. You have a real national/ethic/superior race (i.e. Nazism/Baathism) versus pan-national (i.e. Soviet/Work Workers Party) socialism argument out there. Either way, fascist or Soviet, it’s still socialism.

    Then you have everyone else. The everyone else side is pretty diverse (democracies, representational government/Republics, monarchies, dictatorships, tribes, et al), and while many of them have aspects of corporatism, none of them are inherently socialist.

    I would even argue at this point WWII was the “Great War of Socialism” in that, as far as the Western theatre was concerned, it was a conflict between national socialists (the Nazis) versus pan-national socialists (the Soviets). The fact that twice as many divisions were on the eastern front, versus Normandy and Western Europe, seems to support this.

    1. Correct, peacedog.
      Further, WWII was a conflict of progressivisms (aka socialisms): fascist vs communist+democratic socialist.
      In the wake of WWII, social democracy (a milder form of progressivism, but inevitably trending toward the extreme) was created from the ruins of democratic socialism and fascism – and the cold war was the conflict between social democracy and communism.
      The progressive era has lasted over a century, and we’re still in it.

      1. +1000 Nardz.

        Socialism is the transition phase to get to Communism.

        There are numerous reasons why Socialists have not gotten us to Communism. It does not mean that they wont keep trying.

        1. “Socialism is the transition phase to get to Communism.”

          What are you doing spouting ridiculous Marxist dogma? Do you actually believe this? Not even leftists take this line. Even Lenin rejected it.

          1. I can post the definition of socialism again, if you need it posted.

            1. I don’t need you to quote Marx at me. I could do with some help on Hegel if you’d be so kind.

              1. I will post Marx because you clearly dont know what you are talking about.

                Marx divides the communist future into halves, a first stage generally referred to as the “dictatorship of the proletariat”(Socialism) and a second stage usually called “full communism.”

                1. I told you it isn’t necessary to quote Marx at me. I want Hegel.

    2. The Nazis, Communists, Social Democrats, and other brand of Socialists fought in the streets of Germany for years…then they fought in the streets of Belgium, Netherlands, France, Italy, and the USSR.

      Then there was the USA which prevented Comintern from coming out the champion over all of Europe.

      So the Comintern tried to defeat the USA but would be wiped out because of nukes. So we had the Cold War which was mainly economic, political, and skirmish conflict. The USSR lost.

      The Comintern elements in the USA (Progressives etc) implemented a plan of incrementalism until the USSR imploded. Then they decided Socialism or Bust. Clinton, Bush, and Obama were Socialism. Trump is the Bust.

    3. “Then you have everyone else. The everyone else side is pretty diverse (democracies, representational government/Republics, monarchies, dictatorships, tribes, et al), and while many of them have aspects of corporatism, none of them are inherently socialist.”

      Hitler was a dictator. He was not a leftist. He wasn’t a socialist either. Under his regime, the wealthy kept both their property and their titles. Japan wasn’t socialist either. The aristocracy and the oligarchs also kept their property and titles and they all hated the left as much as Hitler did, who purged his party of them as soon as he held power.

      “The fact that twice as many divisions were on the eastern front, versus Normandy and Western Europe, seems to support this.”

      The fact that Britain almost bled itself white in her conflict with Hitler, shows how stupid this reading of history is.

      1. Your citation fell off mtrueman.

        Not only did the Nazis call themselves the National Socialist German Workers Party but the Nazis had various Ministers to control everything about every industry and the government wholly owned some industries like rocket production.

        Economic Controls in Nazi Germany

        Economy of Nazi Germany

        Once again… you have no idea what you are talking about. I won’t even bother on Japan because your position on Germany was wrong as seen above and so it is about Japan.

        1. Hitler was the leader. He wasn’t a socialist, or a communist. He allowed the wealthy of the country to keep its wealth and titles. That’s private property. Socialist countries eradicated private property. They didn’t enter into partnerships with them, as Hitler did, but were expropriated. I wouldn’t put too much stock in the party name. North Korea, and many other communist countries call themselves Democratic. This doesn’t make them democrats. It’s just a name designed to create a positive feeling.

          You think Japan was ruled by socialists during WWII? That’s something I’d like to hear more about. Please take the trouble to expand on this.

          1. No citations as usual.

            North koreans vote which is likely why they are called democratic. They only get to vote a certain way but they still vote.

            Poor mtrueman.

  30. It appears a few of our remaining disaffected white nationalists will go out with a bang, but the important point is that these impotent, bigoted right-wing losers will be going out.

    Carry on, clingers . . . until you are replaced by your betters, that is.

    1. Nah, he’s probably really one of yours.

  31. No doubt people on both sides of the fringe see this as a tie:

    Omar Mir Seddique Mateen: 49
    Brenton Tarrant: 49

  32. I already heard one expert / journalist ring alarm bells about some rise in right wing extremism. It’s like clockwork.

    If memory serves, right wing extremism kills like 20,30 people year in this country, at most. Domestic terrorism (which is used interchangeably with right wing terrorism, I suppose) killed 50 Americans in 2018, which is supposed to be a terrifying new high. But ADL says more than half those killings probably was probably not ideologically motivated.

    For the sake of perspective – The 2017 attack on the North Sinai Mosque killed 300 plus and injured over a hundred people.

    Not even Trump can stop blue states from wasting time and resources to stop nonexistent right wing threats. All you need is some fake tip (possibly drug related) and the cops will thunder down on some loner who likes to read alt right blogs all day. Corey Booker advocated for some anti lynching law the days after Smollett faked a hate crime.

    This site, which urges for calm and perspective after tragedies, is a minority in American journalism.

  33. I’m having trouble with “Alleged ‘Eco-Fascist’ Attack”

    That there was an attack is not alleged. It happened.

    That the alleged murderer’s motives were allegedly “eco-fascist”? Well, I hadn’t heard that. His manifesto said a lot about white-supremacy, apparently. From your story I can glean no hint of either ecology or fascism, though.

    Why (in my mind) does this matter? Because Rush Limbaugh is alleging that this act of terrorism is in reality a “false flag.”

    Your headline makes it sound like an Alleged ‘Eco-Fascist’ Attack.

    So? Write better headlines, please.

    1. He specifically mentions being an eco-fascist in his manifesto. It doesn’t need to be alleged at all. It’s his own description of his beliefs.

  34. LC79 and LastoftheShitferbrains have almost single-handedly wrecked the Reason comment threads since they showed up with their rabid RWNJ shit-posting.

    1. Poor troll. His sock spam trolls get no luvin.

  35. I am very sad and I pray god blessing on all people family.

  36. my buddy’s mother-in-law makes $72/hr on the . She has been without a job for ten months but last month her paycheck was $21863 just working on the for a few hours. Read more on this site

  37. Why was this column published when it was incomplete and apparently unedited? The opening paragraph states, for example: “the alleged gunman, who livestreamed his assaults on Facebook and is apparently the author of a racist, anti-immigrant, and “eco-fascist” manifesto”. Nowhere in the piece is there any justification for the claim of eco-fascism.

    I don’t donate to Reason to support poor quality articles like this one. Yes, I know the title says “Alleged ‘Eco-Fascist'”. But, there are no references to who’s alleging or why they’re alleging. Or, what eco-fascism means.

    I’m not claiming the shooter isn’t an eco-fascist, whatever that is. Only that the article is incomplete. And below what I expect from Reason.

  38. There is kind of a poetic symmetry, especially considering the name of the place. But both the Calico Cat and the Gingham Dog worshippers are for “peace”, by which they mean the initiation of deadly force.

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