Single payer

Kamala Harris: Under Medicare for All, If You Like Your Insurance Plan, You Can't Keep It

The 2020 contender's single-payer pitch is all about disruption.

|

Yichuan Cao/Sipa USA/Newscom

Under Medicare for All, if you like your private insurance plan, you can't keep it.

When President Obama made the case for the Affordable Care Act, he said on dozens of occasions that anyone who likes their doctor or their insurance plan would be able to keep it under the new law. That proved untrue when the law resulted in several million people losing access to their existing plans. But the promise was made because Obama and his advisers believed it was necessary to maintain public support for the law. Two decades earlier, President Bill Clinton's effort to remake the U.S. health care system failed after industry-funded advertisements drove public opposition by warning that some people would lose their existing insurance plans.

Obamacare's backers thus believed that promising to avoid disruption was a key—arguably the key—to ensuring the law's initial political success. Without it, the whole effort would collapse.

Heading into 2020, single-payer proponents appear to be adopting essentially the opposite strategy. The national health care plan put forth by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) would eliminate all current private insurance over a four-year time frame. And at a town hall event last night, Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Ca.), who recently launched her presidential campaign, said she wants to eliminate private insurance entirely, which would mean that about 177 million people would lose their existing plan.

After noting that the Sanders-sponsored Medicare for All legislation that Harris supports would totally eliminate all private insurance, moderator Jake Tapper asked, "So for people out there who like their insurance—they don't get to keep it?"

Harris responded with a somewhat winding answer that amounts to a yes.

"The idea," she said, "is that everyone gets access to medical care and you don't have to go through the process of going through an insurance company, having them give you approval, going through all the paperwork, all of the delay that may require. Who of us have not had that situation where you have to wait for approval and the doctor says, 'I don't know if your insurance company is going to cover this.' Let's eliminate all of that. Let's move on." (Emphasis mine.)

It's worth taking a moment to think about what Harris is saying here, and just how condescending it is.

She is not just saying that dealing with private insurance is sometimes annoying, which most people would agree is true, and that this should be fixed. Nor is she saying that private insurance has limitations or is insufficient, that it sometimes leaves people and conditions untreated. She is not making a case against private health insurance that is dysfunctional or disliked; she is arguing for the complete elimination of insurance plans that people have had positive experiences with—plans that, as Tapper says, people like.

In other words, if you like your private health insurance plan, you can't keep it, because the plan that you like is bad, and politicians like Harris will decide what you really need instead. A majority of Americans with employer-sponsored plans are satisfied with their insurance coverage, according to an industry survey. Harris is starting her 2020 campaign by telling them they are wrong.

Perhaps the politics of health care have changed since Obama made his pledge; I suspect not. Just last week, a survey found that that only 37 percent of the public supported Medicare for All when told it would eliminate private health insurance. The disruption of existing coverage remains broadly unpopular.

Harris is not only promising disruption (and on a far larger scale than what occurred under Obamacare), she is promising to fully eliminate coverage arrangements that millions of people are happy with in order to radically expand political control of the provision of health care. What she is saying is that it doesn't matter if you like your health care plan if she doesn't.

NEXT: Hip Minnesota Legislators Are Calling Their Pot Legalization Bill HF 420

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  1. After noting that the Sanders-sponsored Medicare for All legislation that Harris supports would totally eliminate all private insurance, moderator Jake Tapper asked, “So for people out there who like their insurance?they don’t get to keep it?”

    Harris responded with a somewhat winding answer that amounts to a yes.

    A race to be the most batshit insane is on the cards folks.

    1. I need to start stocking up on popcorn, cause this one’s gonna get interesting real quick

    2. Considering that Suderman starts off the article by noting that Democrats and Obama lied to the voters face about both their motives and the obvious results of their plan, I wonder if Suderman’s only problem here is that Harris isn’t lying and therefore his preferred solution of nationalized healthcare might not become a reality after the Trump Presidency.

      One of the main takeaways from this article would be that lying works and that it’s assumed this is somehow to make us better off over the objections of the Rube Class.

      1. Force and Fraud of the ruling class over the rubes.

        “Libertarian Moment”

    3. She should go to prison for communism.

      1. I think you just hit peak shitlord.

        *high five*

        1. Here’s a towel to wipe the shit off of your hand.

  2. Can most voters be retarded enough to believe that a government-run health system will provide limitless benefits (and probably magic fairy dust)?

    1. Her implication is that one will never be denied for anything. By complaining that Private Insurance does sometimes deny request, and posing hers as a fix to that, she implies that it will be unlimited.

      It’s interesting to me that Medicare is considered such a well run program as well, as everyone I know who has it has a lot of problems with it.

      1. As for Medicare, I also suspect that most voters have no idea of what it covers (and does not cover), and that most retirees still pay monthly premiums, on top of payroll taxes they paid for decades. In other words, not “free”.

        Plus providers are not required to accept Medicare patients, or charge only Medicare rates. Unless Harris has some more plans.

        1. Medicare part B sticks you with 20% of the bill, and does not pay for preventive services. I like to point that out when people say that want Medicare for all.

      2. everyone w/hands in the cookie jar wants to keep it problematic.

      3. The first big surprise people will encounter will be waiting an hour for an ambulance. Medicare pays less than half of the cost of an ambulance call.

        A Medicare call we did recently was BLS/ALS transport to a hospital of the customer’s choice that was 30 miles away. So with the extra mileage and use of paramedics, our charge was $2,000. Medicare gave us $400 and we can’t, by law, balance bill the rest.

        You think an agency can run on receiving just 20-40 percent of the revenue they actually need to cover costs?

        1. Maybe the tippy-top fat-cat multimillionaire paramedics need to take a pay cut to “give back” to those who are not in the top 1%.

          1. The politicians have already decided that they are going to throw the medical professionals (doctors, nurses, paramedics, etc) under the bus in order to make it work. They have a list of groups that need to sacrifice (and be sacrificed) “for the greater good”. All of them, so that they can get re-elected by the people who will benefit from this ponzi scheme.

        2. Obviously you’re charging too much. QED.

        3. $ 2,000? Does that ambulance run on liquid gold? FFS…………

          1. They are trying to catch up on the pension payments.

        4. “The first big surprise people will encounter will be waiting an hour for an ambulance.”

          Helps to cut down on the demand side for medical care.

      4. Medicare is so great that anyone who can possibly afford it has a supplementary plan. That should say everything that needs to be said. Medicaid is so great that most everyone is limiting how many patients they’ll even see with that ‘plan’ since they lose money.

        In fact, you’ll lose money on Medicare as well for a whole host of things. It’s price fixing, but most people pretend it isn’t for some reason.

      5. More importantly the government’s own Trustee report shows Medicare to be 65% short of money needed to pay promised benefits. If it were a private insurer it would be called insurance fraud, shut down and those running it prosecuted.

        Medicare for all sounds like Churchill’s comments on socialism “equal sharing of the misery”

    2. “Can most voters be retarded enough…” Not sure about “most” but certainly enough.

    3. It’s not fairy dust, it’s not money that isn’t already being spent. Govt doesn’t have money, they take ours. So they will take the money we already spend and spend it on the same healthcare, it’s not a new expenditure. That part of their claim adds up.
      The things to point out is Medicare sucks so you still need to buy insurance. Price fixing by Medicare and everything else ends up causing higher prices. Medicare and insurance delaying paying bills, fighting paying bills and billing rules has caused the higher prices we pay.
      We spend more and get less than countries with universal care. That does indeed need to be fixed. Problem is Medicare is part of the problem not the solution.

      1. ‘So they will take the money we already spend and spend it on the same healthcare’
        But that assumes we all spend the same amount on health care which is not reality.

      2. Start working at home with Google! It’s by-far the best job I’ve had. Last Wednesday I got a brand new BMW since getting a check for $6474 this – 4 weeks past. I began this 8-months ago and immediately was bringing home at least $77 per hour. I work through this link, go to tech tab for work detail.
        +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+……………… http://www.just4work.com

  3. After noting that the Sanders-sponsored Medicare for All legislation that Harris supports would totally eliminate all private insurance, moderator Jake Tapper asked, “So for people out there who like their insurance?they don’t get to keep it?”

    Harris responded with a somewhat winding answer that amounts to a yes.
    .
    .
    A race to the most batshit insanity is on the cards in the Democrat primaries folks. Even moreso than usual.

    1. Nixon v. McGovern 2020

  4. I find it wildly amusing that Socialist bent Democrats absolutely despise the most Socialist industry in the private sector–insurance companies. Taking money from the whole to pay for the few is the definition of Socialism.

    1. And on top of that some of the leading firms in the sector are “non profits”.

    2. It isn’t socialist. FFS, what an ignorant comment. Please rethink what you wrote so I don’t have to,waste my time explaining just how stupid it is.

  5. That proved untrue when the law resulted in several million people losing access to their existing plans.

    FAKE SCANDAL

    Besides, even if Harris’ position on healthcare isn’t perfect from a Koch / Reason libertarian POV, the Republicans are clearly worse on that issue. Because they literally want to turn this country into The Handmaid’s Tale by completely banning access to the most important healthcare procedure of all ? abortion.

    1. Snarky social conservative who wants full citizenship for zygotes?

      1. As a recovering zygote, I support that.

      2. You’re a raging anti-zygote!

    2. What’s funny is that Koch is one of the biggest contributors to NYC’s Presbyterian hospital.

  6. Trump is definitely gonna get more than 300 Electoral College votes again at this rate.

    1. I so do hope you are right, but seeing how the socialists are getting so much free good press, I’m gettin’ a bit worried.

      1. “but seeing how the socialists are getting so much free good press”

        Didn’t help Hillary win.

        1. No. But someone slightly less awful might have won in her place. Not that Harris is really any less awful.

          1. I feel like you thought you had a point there and then realized you didn’t and cut bait.

            1. Bait ain’t going to cut itself.

            2. And I did have a point. Which I apparently didn’t make very clear.

              What was the point of your comment, by the way?

              1. “Didn’t help Hillary win.”

                It’s right there bro.

                As to the point you think you were making, what was it? That in some hypothetical universe where someone not Hillary was the candidate and was not as awful as her, a person like you can make a completely useless prediction about fantasy?

                Because that’s the only point you actually made.

                1. What a deep insight. The thing that didn’t happen didn’t happen. Good thing for all of us you bothered to make that comment.

          2. You think Trump is only slightly less awful? Really? Other than enforcing the immigration laws, what awful has Trump done? What has he done that makes him only slightly less awful? Not started any new wars? Cut regulations and taxes? What Zeb?

            1. I think he meant slightly less awful than Hillary.

              Harris doesn’t count, by any stretch.

              “Yeah, when I was a prosecutor, I suborned false testimony, but it’s OK because the guy I was using false evidence against was really bad.”

              1. Yes, I meant that in 2016, a slightly less awful Democrat would likely have beaten Trump.

                1. Honestly, fuck your meaningless wishcasting.

                  1. Dude, what the fuck is your problem? Are you suggesting that I wanted a Democrat to win? What have I ever said that would give you that idea?

            2. No, I wasn’t commenting on Trump at all, but the quality of Democrat candidates.

          3. Hillary wasn’t stupid enough to go full commie like this in public.

      2. Trump got a shitload of press but it got progressively anti-Trump toward election time.

        Hillary received good press the entire time (IIRC a typical amount of press time too).

        The media seems to have less and less influence over most voters every election cycle.

        1. He got a shitload of press in the primary. I believe one of the Podesta emails was him talking about having the press give him coverage.

          Hillary wanted Trump to win the primary since she already had a plan to contest the election if he won.

          1. Hillary definitely wanted Trump to win the primary. She and her cult thought he was easy to defeat.

            Plan B was the Deep State coup.

            1. I would love to see a timeline on things Hillary was saying/doing during the campaign compared with what the FBI was doing and the Steele dossier.

            2. And the DNC emails

              1. +100 me too TrickyVic

                1. Well, that sounds like something only a ‘Libertarian’ news outlet would tackle. Wonder if any exist anymore.

        2. Hillary received awful coverage. Remember how the press attempted to make her seem like a commoner by broadcasting her chipotle ordering far and wide? The queen doesn’t deserve that.

          1. She got bad coverage, but it was positive in the sense that an impartial press would have given her much, much worse coverage. A case of praising with faint damns.

      3. Does anyone even know how to respond to a fact-based argument anymore?

        It’s honestly hard. Every time you debunk a piece of BS about how this shit won’t work, they’ll just throw another piece of BS at you. If you don’t like talking out of your ass, eventually they’ll make shit up that you’re not capable of completely debunking on the spot, and they claim they won the argument.

        1. So, they’re all pretty much hihn

        2. It’s probavly going to take some,kind of civil war to out an end to the progs. There are too many of them and they don’t ever stop.

    2. My worry is that as horrendous as the Dems look, Trump may choose to dump his base and go mainstream for the win.

      He’ll give us the amnesty and immigration that Hillary would have, he’ll just take a little longer to do it.

      While some of the hard core Trump supporters like Miller know what’s at stake with immigration and the Deep State, it doesn’t look like Trump does.

      1. I don’t think Trump is stupid enough to think that’s a viable strategy. Since when has it ever worked for a Republican?

        1. Since when have Republicans done anything else but sell out the base on immigration?

          That’s how we got Trump.

  7. Finally, an honest politician!

  8. “…she is promising to fully eliminate coverage arrangements that millions of people are happy with…in order to radically expand political control of the provision of health care. ”

    Talking about putting your head in a lions mouth.

    No insurance, including MCR, just readily agrees to pay for whatever you might think you need whenever you might want it. They authorize hospitalizations and treatments, and apply deductibles and co insurance liabilities. As with any economic activity, there are limitations as to how much of the given resource will be available and expendable for any given person. This proposal puts all of that authority directly into the hands of the government to be RATIONED out as they see fit. You will not be able to decide “Hey, my insurance plan really sucks, so I’m going over to Plan B…” There will be no plan B. The government will have total monopoly over your health and well being. Who the fuck is dumb enough to want that [rhetorical question, by the way]?

    1. “Who the fuck is dumb enough to want that [rhetorical question, by the way]?”

      People stupid enough to think that O-care was going to ‘save money’.

      1. That would be the entire Washington media including the author of this post. Suderman said numerous times that while Obamacare was not good, it was preferable to the old system and would “bend the cost curve”.

        A program that did nothing to increase the supply of healthcare and took great pains to increase the demand for it by forcing people to buy health insurance and thus have the incentive to use it who were not buying it now was going to “bend the cost curve”.

        The scary thing about Obamacare is how many people actually believed it would work. It really was a case of mass hysteria. How could anyone be that stupid much less so many people who claim to be wonks and intellectual superiors?

        1. Of course it worked. Why, after all, it came with a free phone.

        2. Oh, it bent the cost curve. The wrong way, but it bent.

    2. Perhaps they best way to influence the thought process would be to ask ” would you like to have a future Trump type administration in charge of your health care?”

      1. Name one time the Trump administration has abused the powers of government to harm its political enemies.

        1. All that matters is that people believe it.

          1. NO. all that matters is the truth Zeb.

            1. This is clearly not true. Have you ever even met a D voter? If truth actually mattered…

              1. AOC has taken great pains to inform us that morality [aka the magic of good intentions] trumps facts.

                And truth is whatever you believe it to be.

            2. You’re both right. Belief is truth to a lot of people, and subjective truth is largely considered false by most modern philosophers. It dovetails right into moral subjectivity and a rejection of rationality.

              I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, frankly there’s something to be said about moral subjectivity. It’s not really a way to live one’s life, though. I find it’s really only ‘useful’ as a foil.

            3. I think you misunderstand me (again). Truth is important. The problem is figuring out what is true and what isn’t. Almost everyone considers their beliefs to be the truth, at least for practical purposes.

    3. Anyone dumb enough to believe that a government of people will (1) really, really, really care about them and (2) have the collective competencies to provide everything forever.

  9. “When President Obama made the case for the Affordable Care Act, he said on dozens of occasions that anyone who likes their doctor or their insurance plan would be able to keep it under the new law.”

    You misspelled “lied”

    1. He can’t bring himself to say it.

  10. Two decades earlier, President Bill Clinton’s effort to remake the U.S. health care system failed after industry-funded advertisements drove public opposition by warning that some people would lose their existing insurance plans.

    Uhh, sure, someone too young to remember it might read a wikipedia article and believe that. For those of us that were in the healthcare industry at the time HillaryCare was being passed, I can tell you it was way, WAY more complicated than that.

    1. I remember it. The Harry & Louise ads were very effective.

  11. Democrats love buying votes with other people’s money.

    1. Democrats Politicians love buying votes with other people’s money.

      1. Yeah, but most Democrats do it retail while Republicans do it wholesale.

      2. As the democrat party platform is based in part on having no morality, it attracts a larger share of sociopaths.

  12. How can anyone who watched the budget shenanigans of this past month possibly think it’s a good idea to put ALL healthcare decisions in the hands of the politicians? They have all of the competence of a monkey trying to fuck a football and the moral authority of a child molester.

    1. +everything. You win the internet

    2. How could anyone not understand the horrific civil rights abuses that would occur if the government had complete control over the distribution of and access to healthcare.

      1. I’m sure patients who wear MAGA hats would get the finest care.

        1. He says as he smirks.

          1. You know, Hihnfaggot smirks in his posts………

        2. Perhaps they would, just to piss you off.

      2. The Democrats consider that a plus, not a minus since they expect to control that apparatus.

    3. I see no problems at all with all healthcare just being suspended for a month while the government fights with itself over the budget. /snark

      1. Think of the money that would save; de facto rationing and budget reconciliation in one fell swoop.

  13. The problem is that people can’t afford medical care. Her sollution is to eliminate the primary means by which people pay for the medical care they get right now.

    Yeah, that makes sense. The bottom line here is that she wants a two tiered system. There will be a very top tier that will include people like her and a small number of rich, powerful and connected. They will get all of the healthcare they want and need whenever they want it or need it and it will be of the absolute best quality. Then there will be everyone else. And everyone else will get whatever healthcare the government deems them worthy of regardless of whether they worked all of their lives and paid into the system or are a complete bum who just showed up to the country yesterday for the single purpose of getting free healthcare. There won’t be much healthcare but what there is will be strictly rationed and limited to those who do not engage in any anti-social activities such as owning a gun or smoking or drinking or doing anything else Harriss finds objectionable.

    Behold the glorious socialist future!!

    1. In fairness, Mexico has a pretty good health care system along the lines you describe. There is a public system, where the hospitals are filthy. You bring your own sheets if you want them. The doctors are indentured recent college grads.

      In the public system, boy oh boy. A bed is $150/night. Everything is sparkling clean. The doctors are responsive and knowledgeable. They don’t have the FDA cartel telling them that effective drugs approved all over western Europe aren’t allowed.

      My wife being treated for a week during a difficult pregnancy in a private Mexican hospital was a far better experience and less expensive than me being treated for two hours in the ER for an asthma attack in the US.

      If that’s what a two-tiered system looks like, bring it on. Fund the public tier at preposterously low levels and set the top tier free. MARKETS!

      But I think Harris is serious about keeping this as a one-tiered system. We can’t have those iniquitous Kulaks receiving better treatment than the Proletariat.

      1. If we would get rid of the FDA, make it easier to become a doctor or a healthcare provider and allow them to do more than they are now, and make it easier to set up medical practices and clinics, it would go a very long ways towards solving our problems. But where is the opportunity for graft and corruption in that?

        1. And the AMA.

        2. Where is Reason calling for actual consumer freedom to self treat, instead of corporate freedom to engage in government enabled rent seeking to shake down consumers?

          It’s almost as if Reason is all about corporate profits, and not about freedom at all.

          “Libertarian Moment”

          1. I could deal with a lot of intermittent problems more easily with Web MD and the ability to self medicate.

            1. Ask your doctor if Damnitall is right for you!

            2. Doctors do whatever they’re comfortable with. The variation between what they’re comfortable with is huge. Anything you’re going to want to do would fall into that variation.

              But because they rule, and not serve, you’d have to doctor shop until you found the guy whose preferences lined up with yours.

              There’s no protecting you with better treatment going on. It’s all rent seeking.

      2. The thing with single-payer is like you and me and Bill Gates going to dinner and deciding we’ll split the tab based on our ability to pay – it don’t work if Bill Gates is free to decline the offer to go to dinner. If it’s just you and me, we’re going to Wendy’s, if we can force Bill Gates to go along and pay 99% of the bill, we’re flying to Paris. It’s why Obamacare was intended to force everybody – including relatively young and healthy adults with a relatively low probability of needing expensive health care – to buy expensive health insurance, it was simply subsidizing the health insurance of the elderly and those with chronic conditions. There were too many loopholes in the Obamacare net that let the little fishies escape, Harris is just taking it one step further and doing away with the charade of insurance companies. Everybody’s going to have to pony up for collective health care regardless of whether or not you personally need any health care.

    2. Minor correction: The bottom tier will deliver whatever care can be afforded.

      And because the budget will be fixed in stone by Congress a year in advance, managers and staff will have every incentive to reduce care to the minimum they can get away with, because good care would bring more patients who will demand resources that are not in the budget.

      New Mexico or Arizona, I forget which, privatized their state parks, and the public was happier, visited more often, and paid less. The article pointed out why: when the state ran the parks, the budget was set in advance by politicians, and the park staff had every incentive to reduce the number of visitors and definitely could not afford to lure extra visitors. But the private managers had every incentive to improve facilities and bring in extra visitors, because then their budget went up.

      Supply and demand, Econ 101.

    3. John is describing Canada’s system perfectly accurately.

  14. Let’s ignore the millions of people who’ll lose the insurance they like, and the fact that a forced government-run health insurance would be a train wreck… She’s saying she wants to put about half a million people out of work (google search is showing me there were 467k people in the health insurance industry in 2013, that’s probably gone up a bit since).

    Seriously, any competent politician (yes I know that’s an oxymoron) just got a hammer to smack Harris around with for as long as she runs. She wants to put half a million people out of work, and have a repeat of Obama’s shitshow, only even WORSE. Play that as attack ads 24/7 and profit from it

    1. She’s saying she wants to put about half a million people out of work (google search is showing me there were 467k people in the health insurance industry in 2013, that’s probably gone up a bit since).

      they’re not journalists, so they can learn to code like coal miners in Appalachia.

      1. Well, I uhh, I guess the coding thing didn’t work out, so we’re pivoting to beekeeping.

        1. What about food trucks? Or is that reserved for immigrants?

        2. You just touched on one of the reasons why I find a lot of modern economics preposterous. They treat humans as if they are interchangeable cogs in a machine instead of, you know, human fucking beings. People don’t work that way, and never have.

          If you eliminate all the low skilled labor jobs, or fill them with immigrants, than there is nowhere to go except public assistance. Which is, of course, the plan.

          1. It is Marxism BYOB. Marx famously called religion the opium of the people. What he meant was that things like culture and values and religion were just distractions that kept people from realizing their true self which was entirely based on their economic class. The sort of thinking you are talkning about is no different. It is saying everyone should act by their real nature, which is to do everything that the market requires. Instead of becoming the new Soviet man who sheds his old beliefs and works for the collective, modern economics expects all of us to become Homo economicus, interchangeable units of labor in the great Utopian market future.

          2. Exactly. The Left also wants to make barista jobs not starter jobs but “careers”. Jobs like that are intended to starter jobs that teach high school kids and young adults about important job basics like showing up on time, calling the boss if there is a problem, and other menial aspects of the working world.

            If you need your job at Starbucks to be a full time job and high pay, something is seriously wrong.

            1. Enter the Juggalos.

    2. Yes, it will put 467K people out of work. But with government inefficiencies, she’ll have to hire twice as many people.

    3. Who do you think is going to run and maintain that new government insurance?

      It’s a win win for her: 500k new federal employees plus anytime Republicans threaten a shutdown she just reminds the idiots (looking at you Tony) that the Reps want to literally see you die.

    4. Those insurance people can learn to code. Because there is an unlimited aptitude for everyone to learn to code, and an inexhaustible appetite for coding jobs,

  15. “”The national health care plan put forth by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) would eliminate all current private insurance over a four-year time frame.”‘

    Learn to code!

  16. Remember there is more. In addition to this, the Democrats want a Green New Deal that woudl ban all gasoline powered cars, make most air travel impossible, and ban nearly all forms of power generated using fossile fuels. So, you could walk to wait in line for whatever medical care was available at the government clinic, provided that the wind was blowing or the sun was shinning that day allowing it to have power and be open.

    I don’t want to hear another fucking word about how reckless Trump is. This shit is full on insane. And they actually would do it if they ever got the power to do so.

    1. Maybe we need to give them an island, and some seeds and windmills, and let them play their little fantasy out.

      1. Oh, I forgot: a bunch of immigrants, too.

        1. Just spit balling here, but we could call it ‘Puerto Rico’ or something cool like that.

  17. She wants to take away your health insurance. In the same townhall she (of course) was proud to talk about how she wants to diminish your 2nd Amendment rights. She also said she’s in favor of the loony Green New Deal, so she’s going to effectively take away your car, or at least take away your right to own the car that you choose. In her time as a prosecutor she demonstrated pretty effectively her disdain for the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendments.

    Her media events would be a lot shorter if they focused on what she’d allow us to keep.

    1. She is going to take away our car, your ability to defend yourself, your ability to buy healthcare, all of your civil rights in any criminal proceeding, but you will have a right to a government funded abortion and you will have a right to shower with women if you claim to be one.

      That is what freedom looks like Bevis.

      1. Libertarians and conservatives must decide what their freedom is worth to them. It may become necessary to bleed, and make progtards bleed, to protect our freedom.

    2. The loony Green New Deal will not take your cars away and such. It’s more about redistribution of wealth to green companies.

      1. “The loony Green New Deal will not take your cars away and such”

        I don’t buy that for a second.

        1. They won’t take them away, they plan on making driving too expensive for the proles.

      2. “The loony Green New Deal will not take your cars away and such.”

        Zero carbon emissions and internal combustion engines are as incompatible as two things can be.

        1. Sure. But I have yet to hear that as part of their plan. They can’t reap the benefit of congestion pricing without them.

          They have proposed carbon tax scheme which will do little to reduce emissions, but will transfer wealth.

          1. It will also, obviously, mean that some people who could afford to own and operate a motor vehicle will no longer be able to do so. RE: France

            1. And this is, obviously, ignoring the fact that gasoline is a basic economic output and raising the price of fuel automatically raises the prices of anything shipped using it. Which, notably, is most of our modern economy.

          2. You haven’t read the Green Manifesto, which was signed by over 600 environmental groups.

            Check it out here.

            Key points:
            1) Immediately ban extraction of fossil fuels from federal land and territorial waters.
            2) Ban all new combustion-based power generation, nuclear, biomass energy, large scale hydro and waste-to-energy technologies. 100% renewable power generation by 2035.
            3) 100% carbon-free by 2040 in transportation system, which includes land, air, and sea modes of transportation.
            4) Use the Clean Air Act full regulatory power to reduce and eliminate GHG because GHG are just like criteria pollutants.
            5) Vigorously oppose any market-based mechanisms and technology options such as carbon and emissions trading and offsets, carbon capture and storage, nuclear power, waste-to-energy and biomass energy.
            6) Do all of this without putting a burden on impacted communities and workers.

            1. Fucking insane.

    3. You know, it used to be politicians would say crazy stuff and the voter would say ‘yeh but they just say that to get elected. That won’t happen!’

      Except, I submit this is no longer a safe way to approach things. They said the same things about Trudeau and he’s not only brought in horrific laws (Bills, 16 69, 103) but is in the process of making Canada – a nation dependent on primary resources – into a second-rate green energy dystopia. He said he was going to ‘change’ things and boy is he ever – for the worse. Just like his commie daddy did.

      Yet, Canadians didn’t believe he would be so retarded.

      So with Harris. I’d be very careful with her if I were an American. At some point you just have to go ‘no way I’m taking a chance’.

      1. If there is one thing Obama taught America it is that yes, sometimes people are that stupid.

        1. Like all of the people who were stupid enough to vote him into a second term in office?

          1. Well yeah, the alternative was that NAZI sexist Romney that thought that the USSR was still a threat somehow. Duh!

        2. “You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.” – Abraham Lincoln

          “But I only need to fool enough of the people enough of the time.” Any modern politician.

      2. You know who else said a lot of crazy shit about the things he’d like to do if he had the chance and still shocked people when it turned out he really did mean to do those crazy things when he got the chance? When somebody tells you they’d like to kill you if they had the chance, you should believe them.

        1. Which is why the progs got to go.

      3. Rufus is exactly right. Many Canadians remembered what a disaster Fidel Elliot Trudeau was and were appalled that his spawn might become PM. Others, younger and maybe less, um, western Canadian, voted for his flashy hair.
        Trudeau fil is now in the process of finishing what Trudeau pere start – fucking Canadians good and hard.
        A lot of what I see out of Kamala Harris, Occasional Cortex, Crazy Uncle Bernie, et al has already been implemented up here. We’re going broke just as fast as you guys are. Maybe quicker.

  18. Under Medicare for All, if you like your private insurance plan, you can’t keep it.

    Perhaps the politics of health care have changed since Obama made his pledge; I suspect not. Just last week, a survey found that that only 37 percent of the public supported Medicare for All when told it would eliminate private health insurance. The disruption of existing coverage remains broadly unpopular.

    Bold strategy…

    I hope nobody points this out to her. Never interrupt a moron when they’re about to do something stupid, instead just pop some popcorn, sit back, and enjoy the show.

  19. So many leftist politicians who thing government can actually do something more efficiently and effectively have never worked for government so they have no clue how wrong they are.

  20. …she is arguing for the complete elimination of insurance plans that people have had positive experiences with?plans that, as Tapper says, people like.

    She just wants a level playing field. Just don’t look too closely to what that level is.

    1. “She just wants a level playing field.”

      Everybody is equal DMV.

      1. *at the*

      2. “everyone is equal in my eye.”

  21. It wasn’t exactly a secret that the real goal of the ACA wasn’t to fix the private health care insurance system, but rather to screw it up so badly that the public would be willing to submit to a government run system.

    It’s rather like, your spouse won’t agree to remodel the house, so you set it on fire. Problem solved, you have to remodel now!

    The problem is that the ACA IS an entitlement program, and once those kick in, the costs are diffuse, and the benefits concentrated, so they’re politically impossible to kill off. The last real opportunity to kill off the ACA before the private health care system went down in flames was when the Supreme court reviewed its constitutionality, and Roberts decided to twist logic into pretzels to save it, instead.

    The current system is unsustainable. And the Republicans frittered away their only window to propose a real free market fix, because they’re not actually in love with a free market. Now the Democrats are ideally placed to keep anybody from fixing things while a relatively acceptable system goes down in flames.

    We’re screwed.

    1. Nope, a goal of the ACA was to perpetuate the UAW and New Deal Democrat designed group market. So the ACA was designed to not disrupt the group market and it has greatly succeeded at that goal. Someone has been feeding you bad information…probably Zeke Emanuel.

      1. Well except that rates are going up across the board. Just because you’re in a group it doesn’t insulate you from price signals always and forever, it just means you’ll be the last one up against the wall.

        Their only way out is nationalization or deregulation, so it’s pretty safe to conclude that was their goal when nationalization has been added to their party platform.

        Is it weird that Democrats are running against themselves from a decade ago? Yes, yes it is. Note how no one has noticed!

        1. Medicare for All is a sign of desperation. Basically Obamacare has been so successful that now Democrats have nothing popular to run on. They can’t run on open borders because that is not popular and Justice Kennedy took the same sex marriage issue from them. And that boils down Schultz’ platform?focus on little things and the debt.

  22. Welcome to Canada folks. You’re done.

    The fact you let Obamacare happen sealed your fate.

    Harris: She slept her way to the top, has been accused of sexual harassment, lies about having been a progressive prosecutor and now just told you how she’s gonna run America.

    She’s a shoe in for the DNC and probably Presidency because people will fall for whatever positive narrative they’ll create for her. We saw this with Obama, we saw it with Trudeau in Canada and now Harris.

    1. Obamacare is the only thing standing between you and Medicare for All! Republicans in Congress are on record as supporting 90% of Obamacare, and they know it is a shield against Medicare for All regardless of the lies they told their gullible supporters.

      1. Republicans already repealed the mandate, the part that was intended to slow down how fast Obamacare destroyed the health insurance industry, (So that it would happen on somebody else’s watch.) by forcing people to buy health insurance. I expect the death spiral to turn into a death vertical power dive as a result.

        It took about 4 years in Washington state for the repeal of the mandate to crash their health insurance market, back in the 90’s. That suggests the national health insurance market should be crashing about 2022-3.

        1. Washington’s market had guaranteed issue, but no subsidies (or mandate, of course). The subsidies alone will protect the individual market from crashing. Let’s check back in 2023, shall we?

  23. Democrats had an easy path to victory in Florida running on the Medicaid expansion, instead they nominated Gillum and his far left agenda cost them the governorship and senate seat.

    1. Gillum lost by less than a mere 34,000 votes which is far from being an overwhelming rejection of that far left agenda.

      1. The Democrats would have won focusing on the Medicaid expansion.

        1. Of course, because more free money tends to sell well to the people you happen to be promising free money to. It’s just obvious enough to work!

        2. You do realize that Medicaid is the primary driver behind the $1 trillion-plus cost for the Medicare and Medicaid Services division, right?

          1. No, nobody “realizes that”, because it isn’t true. In 2017, Medicare accounted for 20% of the NHE ($705.9B), while Medicaid accounted for 17.1% ($581.9B). And more than half of Medicaid spending was for the disabled and long-term care for elderly indigent – the Medicaid expansion group is quite cheap by comparison.

  24. Kamala Harris has an extreme idea to get gun control legislation passed

    She said: “I think somebody should have required all those members of Congress to go in a room, in a locked room, no press, nobody else, and look at the autopsy photographs of those babies. And then you vote your conscience.”

    Nothing like Kidnapping, False Imprisonment, Assaulting Congressmen, and torture to hold Congressmen’s eyes open to get elected to President of the United States of America.

    Lefties are the enemy of a free America.

    1. Ok. Now do the same for Planned Parenthood.

      What a fucken cunt.

      1. It seems we’re on the same wavelength, Rufus.

      2. I was kind of worried that Democrats could find a presidential candidate that is almost Libertarian, so that person could compete with Trump.

        The Lefties are clearly doubling down on crazed women who think Socialism is not TOP WOMEN heavy enough.

        1. Most of the the dem potentials are either non starters or batshit crazy communists. A real near libertarian would have to come out of left field, amd I have major doubts that the progtarded party base would provide enough support for that individual to get the nomination.

          It’s a nice idea, but more likely those idiots will nominate some version of Hugo Chavez.

      3. “Ok. Now do the same for Planned Parenthood.”

        Did you see the signing ceremony on NY for the new law that allows abortions even up to the point of labor? They were cheering gleefully. These people are soulless monsters.

        They need to go.

    2. She said: “I think somebody should have required all those members of Congress to go in a room, in a locked room, no press, nobody else, and look at the autopsy photographs of those babies. And then you vote your conscience.”

      “But, enough about aborted fetuses.”

    3. “”Nothing like Kidnapping, False Imprisonment, Assaulting Congressmen, and torture to hold Congressmen’s eyes open to get elected to President of the United States of America.”‘

      They are not going voluntarily so it would be done at the point of a gun.

    4. And Oregon has a wonderful new bill drafted by high school students. They define an “assault” weapon as pretty much anything that goes bang more than once. This continuing dialogue from those quarters has convinced me that we will lose much of our liberty; it is just a matter of time.

      Or we will end up with what a Civil War could not produce; two separate nations.

      1. Fuck that two nation nonsense.

        We evidently need to fuck these Democrats up with violence every 160 years or so.

      2. A civil war on gun control would be kinda ironic being that both sides need guns.

        1. Progtards don’t think things through.

  25. It is so simple to fix our healthcare. Remove the employer-provided healthcare tax advantage and give everyone private health savings accounts. Let them buy whatever coverage they want- including High Deductible and subsidize the truly poor so that they can buy HD plans as well.

    All that fucking administration, and legal wrangling all over the place? Billions of wasted dollars gone.

    1. Yup.

      Everyone pay cash for minor medical stuff and have catastrophic health insurance for the major medical stuff.

      1. There is a lot of difference between “minor” and “catastrphofic”. Usually enough room to cause a whole lot of harm.

        1. Minor being more like annual physicals and a broken leg.

          Major being more like heart attacks, cancer, and transplant surgery.

          1. There is a lot in between those; appendectomies, ectopic pregnancies, fractured limbs*, gall bladders..; none of which meet any ones definition of cheap or affordable. Better have at least a three or four or five tier plan.

            *Broken legs are not simply reset; they require surgery and fixation

            1. Anyway. Insurance companies define what is minor and what is major and you shop accordingly.

              It could also be set based on total cost exceeding say $10,000.

              All medical costs would drop drastically with no Medicare, no Medicaid, and no ObamaCare.

            2. That’s why you have health savings, to cover the stuff in the mid range.

        2. John is right again.
          Canada’s govt health care plan was proposed and adopted as: you pay for the simple stuff; govt pays for the catastrophic shit.
          But before long the people – wanting more free shit – demanded that everything be free.
          And that’s how we get rationing and a system that is bankrupting us.

      2. > Everyone pay cash for minor medical stuff and have catastrophic health insurance for the major medical stuff.

        Progressives will never hear of paying cash. They want to flash a card that draws from someone else’s savings.

    2. HD plans are not a good idea for most people. It is like paying for health insurance that won’t pay most of the time when you need it. If you think HD plans are so great, why don’t people get them on other things like their house or their car? Hey, just get a home owners insurance plan with a $50,0000 decductable. They are really cheap. Or a car insurance plan with a $10,000 deductable. The reasons why that sounds absurd are the same reasons why it is absurd for health insurance.

      1. I have high deductible for my auto insurance policy. I pay less than $500 per year per vehicle in rates.

        I pay cash for broken windshields and minor vehicle damage or the person who did it pays.

        1. Hmm. For me to add no deductible glass replacement, it only added like $10 every six months.

          1. $10 added onto a Comprehensive plan, perhaps?

            I have liability insurance with uninsured driver coverage. I dont have comprehensive since I dont cause damage to other people’s vehicles and I own my cars outright.

            1. I had. $7k comp claim last year on my BMW. I ran afoul of some road construction that should have been blocked off in a poorly lit area near Gonzaga Univsristy at night. The city wouldn’t pay, and I was advised a lawsuit would be an uphill battle, as they stack the deck against those sorts of claims. So I turned it into my insurance.

              So it can come in handy at times.

          2. If $10 is added to liability, that’s a good deal.

      2. I live in a pre-WWII suburb where it is easy to live without a car for days. A high deductible car insurance plan works for me. A high deductible health insurance plan works for young adults in good health. Buying Charlie down the block a free lunch once in a while, provides you with insurance against … ’nuff said.

        1. Actually, the HD plan works great for me (40s) and my family (3 kids). We have been accumulating money in our health savings account for the better part of a decade now. And our companies give us $2500k in money every year. When added up with our own deposits, we have built up around $50k in these medical savings accounts- even after heart attack scares, 3 pregnancies, two broken bones and an appendectomy over that time frame. That is enough to pay our family maximum for another 10 years- assuming we don’t continue depositing money.

          The benefit of a HD plan with a savings account is that it accumulates value UNTIL you use it. When you blow $6k a year on a standard plan, that money is gone as soon as the year is over. At the same time, I was paying $2k into a policy, and saving $4k. Yeah, it was a shock when we had a conflaguration of events one year, but we easily absorbed it.

          Even if you are older, you should be looking at HD plans (though they are much less attractive under ACA). People in their 40s and 50s tend to earn more, and so get more tax value from their deposits. The HD plans also grow tax free in a brokerage account (if you want). It is basically another way to squirl money away for retirement.

      3. How does a person run up a 300k bill for auto bodywork?

        1. Wreck your McLaren. 😀

      4. John- You can save up enough to pay for the family maximum on HD plans in about 2 years. The High Deductible plans, even before ACA, had individual maximums of like $5000. Not great, but not catastrophic. We got hit with a bad set of events one year, when I went to the hospital, my wife had a baby, and our daughter had a bad flu. We ended up paying some $6k out of pocket which was still less than we had saved in premiums + deposits for the previous 3 years.

      5. And yet, John, people do sign up for high-deductible plans for their house and car all the time. Not everyone and not at every point in their lives but lots and lots of people in lots of different circumstances.

        The reasons why it makes sense are the same reasons why people voluntarily choose that same option for health insurance.

      6. It depends.

        When choosing an insurance plan it is important to add up your premiums and the max out of pocket to get a sense of your total exposure.

        HDHP are often cheaper. This was especially true when the copays didn’t count toward the out of pocket limit. Or if you use out of network providers.

    3. ^ this +100

  26. , going through all the paperwork,

    Because government bureaucracy is really is known for cutting down on paperwork. Now you’ll have to excuse me as I fill out form WH-347, for prevailing wages on a HUD job. I need to concentrate because if I use the wrong color pen ink they will kick it back.

  27. “The idea,” she said, “is that everyone gets access to medical care and you don’t have to go through the process of going through an insurance company, having them give you approval, going through all the paperwork, all of the delay that may require. Who of us have not had that situation where you have to wait for approval and the doctor says, ‘I don’t know if your insurance company is going to cover this.’ Let’s eliminate all of that. Let’s move on.” (Emphasis mine.)

    In other words, it would give Americans equal access to healthcare the way they have equal access to education in government run schools. Think about which Americans like their schools and which Americans want to move to a school district in a more expensive neighborhood. This program has the potential to gentrify neighborhoods much more quickly than Clinton’s tough on crime approach did. Who needs to bother arresting people when you can simply cure their anxiety with a pill that saps their wills?

  28. “The idea,” she said, “is that everyone gets access to medical care”

    “, unlike the way it is now, where everyone might as well be on fucking Mars!”

  29. After Obamacare, who the fuck likes their current insurance plan?

  30. Journalist discovers economic reality, postscripts his story to assure his readers he doesn’t really really believe the free market is superior to the government controlling everything.

    Dockless bikeshares are great for getting around Seattle but they also seem to be effective tools for illustrating economic theory.
    When we replaced our failing publicly-supported docked bike shares with the yellow, orange, and green bicycles of private companies, services became cheaper and used more widely.

    Riders took more trips in their first three months of private operations than the city-funded program carried in its entire 2.5 year life, according to SDOT data reported by the Seattle Bike Blog. Perhaps this was the private industry showing its superior efficiency over public programs?*

    *I am of course not comparing completely identical situations?the city’s program was fundamentally different from the private programs because the bikes were docked to specific stations which were far less convenient than the dockless situation. So do not take this sentence to indicate that I think private business is universally better at providing services than the government. MEDICARE FOR ALL.

    1. Cognitive dissonance on full display.

    2. The “docking” situation depended on who was running the program. So obviously it wasn’t an identical situation. The writer saw the point, reported on it, and then didn’t get it?

      1. The writer saw the point, reported on it, and then didn’t get it?

        Essentially, yes. He points out the terrible failures of centrally planned systems with no competition, then points out that those centrally planned systems didn’t work like the non-centrally planned ones– and that’s why they failed. Not because they were centrally planned.

        This is why journalism is so deep in the shitter.

  31. It would really be a complete tragedy if Harris had a fall and tripped into a woodchipper.

    1. [adds woodchipper GIF]

  32. So…at least part of that reasoning is good. The insurance market IS bad. It’s a terrible way to pay for health care. Let the free market reign and have insurance for catastrophic events…like in every other industry.

    1. +100

    2. The insurance market IS bad. It’s a terrible way to pay for health care.

      Ah, but a *great* way to (further) track your personal life.

    3. Insurance is the quintessential free market instrument. If you tell people and businesses what kind of insurance they are allowed to buy or sell, you do not have a free market.

  33. Apart from the money issues, a big concern with a single-payer system is that people want to decide who gets treated and who does not. You know, out of fairness, they’ll say. Oh? You’re a chubby person? No healthcare for you. Lose weight first, and then you can get treatment. Smoker? Nope. Sorry. You’re an unnecessary burden on the healthcare system. Whatever the government gives, it will also take it away when it decides that certain people do not deserve healthcare.

    1. You will be mandated to do exercises every morning in front of your TV screen (with camera), just like Winston Smith did.

    2. I’m sure that the folks promoting Medicare for All are already looking into how it will incorporate a Chinese-style social credit system.

      One thing for sure is that Medicare for All will improve infant mortality stats. Pre-natal care will be mandatory and, if there is the slightest risk in the pregnancy an abortion will be ordered: it’s a human right, after all, and a civic duty.

      1. Scary. But probably accurate.

  34. Not to mention that she’s putting 350,000 to 500,000 (depending on who you ask) health insurance workers out of a job, unless she decides to nationalize the health insurance industry and draft them to run it.

    1. Throw in a few thousand eligibility specialists.

  35. Well, she is lying, just not about imposing Top Men’s will on the population. MediCare as it exists right now denies coverage for certain treatments and medications, does not pay full costs and requires a lot of paperwork. Harris appears to be making a claim that putting health care payments under the government will resullt in no bureaucratic snafus and no denial to pay for care. This is laughable.

    1. Within 45 days of enrolling in Medicare I had already gotten two medical bills from a scam operation. I have no idea whether Medicare paid them.

      Medicare is a woefully awful program. Better than ObamaCare, it is, but still awful. And, contrary to popular misinformed opinion, it is not free.

  36. More proof that the Democrats don’t have the first fucking clue why the lost in 2018. They just keep doubling down on stupid.

    “I know why we lost! We didn’t promise enough free shit! Let’s promise even more free shit! That will be sure to get the couch potato base away from Oprah long enough to pull a lever!!!”

  37. Who of us have not had that situation where you have to wait for approval and the doctor says, ‘I don’t know if your insurance company is going to cover this.’

    /raises hand

    1. I have, and my response was “what it the correct course of action?” That was what we did. Did I pay out of pocket or not? I don’t think so. Was the paperwork a pain? probably. Did I get a good result? Yes.

  38. Can we at least acknowledge the reality that our health insurance situation is a mess. People that complain about universal health care have never been without coverage. It works in every other country, yet here it will never work. Bullshit.

    1. I ask this honestly. In countries where it works, how much can you sue the doctor for if they screw you up?

      I’m guessing very little if any at all. But I don’t know.

    2. It is absolutely a mess. A mix of socialism, bureaucracy, cronyism and plain incompetence have conspired to make it this way. This toxic mix has infected every part of the healthcare chain. It doesn’t /work/ in every other country – and where implemented here in the US – it doesn’t work (VA health care) – it’s rife with waste, abuse, and most importantly – the incentive for good strong research based results is hampered in single payer.

    3. Yes, our current situation is a mess. And having lived in other countries that had “universal health care”, that was worse. It was in my experience inefficient, unfair and rampantly corrupt. To call that “working” requires some very rosy glasses.

  39. What a c**t.

  40. So instead, you’ll “have to go through the process of going through [a government agency], having them give you approval, going through all the paperwork, all of the delay that may require.”

    In what universe is that less bad than going through an insurance company?

  41. Medicare for all.
    Bankruptcy for all.
    Misery for all.
    Excuses by the ruling elites for all.
    Aren’t the ideas by our ruling elitist turds wonderful?

  42. “When President Obama made the case for the Affordable Care Act, he said on dozens of occasions that anyone who likes their doctor or their insurance plan would be able to keep it under the new law. That proved untrue when the law resulted in several million people losing access to their existing plans. But the promise was made because Obama and his advisers believed it was necessary to maintain public support for the law.

    Obamacare’s backers thus believed that promising to avoid disruption was a key?arguably the key?to ensuring the law’s initial political success. Without it, the whole effort would collapse.”

    “He said”
    “That proved untrue”
    “the promise was made”
    “believed that promising”

    I love how Suderman tortures the language to avoid clearly expressing the facts: Obama lied to get Obamacare passed.

  43. That 37% being OK with losing private insurance is a disturbingly high number.

    1. That was my first thought as well

    2. I’m skeptical that is a real number.

  44. I’m relatively indifferent to the government ending the medical mafia’s government enabled rent seeking.

    Unless you’re rich and can buy into the concierge practices where you’re paying for a doctor who will actually treat you according to *your* wishes instead of theirs, the insurance company’s, and the government’s, you have no healthcare freedom now.

    It’s not like the “private” companies aren’t controlled by the government now. We’ve just got two bureaucracies instead of one ruling us. Is that really supposed to be better?

    Notice how Reason endlessly fights for the freedom of the government enabled rent seeking corporate medical mafia , but never *your* medical freedom?

  45. Harris admits that a lot of doctors will just quit under her plan but not to worry. She’s already made arrangements with Cuba to send up some more.

    1. Is the flight to Cuba free?

    2. Why would doctors quit?

  46. She gives a bj along with the communist salute.

  47. I ran the annual enrollment crap for employers for a long time back in the day.

    Employees constantly had questions/concerns about any and every change to those plans (and we usually changed stuff every year). They may even have phrased those concerns as about ‘insurance’. But not ONE concern was EVER actually about insurance plans. It was ALWAYS about:

    1. Will I get to keep seeing the doctor I’m already seeing for whatever?

    2. Will I pay more for that?

    That’s IT. People don’t give a rat’s fuck about ‘insurance plans’. Pols being pols – they don’t get how to respond to that generic question now. Because they’ve not been asked the question 100 times. But they’ll learn.

    So unless whatever plan they are proposing is intended to a)drive doctors out of the profession or b)cost-shift so that patients pay more; then they WILL ultimately be able to give an answer that gets votes. That answer won’t solve the bigger problem of lowering the cost-curve. But with $22 trillion in debt – and no one giving a shit about that either – worrying about the cost-curve is a loser.

    1. But with $22 trillion in debt – and no one giving a shit about that either – worrying about the cost-curve is a loser.

      Except if there’s anything that has the potential to blow up the budget, it’s healthcare costs for the government, which have gone up at about an 8% annual clip every year since the early 80s. The fact that healthcare has taken on the properties of an exponential function is something that should concern everyone, $22 trillion debt or no, because eventually the debt service is going to catch up and really fuck things over.

      1. Healthcare being a private industry is why healthcare costs keep increasing exponentially. We have a whole industry whose profits are driven by extracting as much money as possible out of patients.

    2. “Will I get to keep seeing the doctor I’m already seeing for whatever?”

      Because treatment is all about what doctors are comfortable with, not patients.

      Lose your doctor, and you’re likely forced into new treatment because the new guy is “not comfortable” with your old treatment, no matter how comfortable you are.

  48. One of these days, a very brave journalist is going to have to ask:
    “What exactly does healthcare mean?”

    I don’t expect an answer

  49. Where the hell in this socialist BS is there going to be an exception for conscience? For the Little Sister of whatever who believe that birth control is an immorality that they are being forced to support, for a Christian Science practicioner who will accept no medical intervention and thus should not be required to pay for it, or a man (or Lady) of Reason who clearly, logically believes that this entire socialist claptrap is simply an impossibility?

    How the hell do we “opt out” of this short of suicide?

    This crap is wrong, evil and will be as much the death of humanity as any “singularity”, asteroid, or climatic shift.

  50. I don’t know what shady operation provided your healthcare; I kept mine no problem. Obama over-promised sure, but how many were actually affected? This is called making a mountain out of a molehill.

    Under single payer, most countries also allow supplemental health insurance to tailor service to you preference. Basic care will be cheaper, allowing more room for such options.

    1. Under single payer, most countries also allow supplemental health insurance to tailor service to you preference.

      Were you not paying attention? Harris said she wants to get rid of ALL private health insurance plans.

      1. Again, I don’t understand this. Why would you need to abolish private health care plans to obtain a government run health care system.
        This makes absolutely no logical sense.
        There will always be those who can afford private health care and are more than willing to pay for it. TBH, allowing people to go private would reduce the numbers using the government health system. It’s a win-win for both.
        Abolishing private systems just appears to be done out of pure spite in an attempt to prevent those who can afford to from being able to in order to make everyone have to use one system. It is done purely to make everyone the same.
        It is the socialist attempt at their version of ‘fairness’.
        They cannot increase wealth for everyone so they can afford to go private, so they have to bring down the wealthy who can afford to go private.

        1. “This makes absolutely no logical sense.”

          It’s not about logic. It’s about forcing people to bend to your will.

  51. This isn’t just going to hurt her, but all Democrats, since they will have to answer this question. Eventually, one will come up with a good, queasily answer for it.

    1. *weasely, but queasily works, too.

  52. You could probably nip this in the bud by insisting that all the House and the Senate would have to live under whatever plan develops. (The fact that this is as it should be isn’t the point here.) Clearly, the goal is to make healthcare into a source of government fake revenue just as they’ve already done with Social Security.
    Has anyone done an analysis on how many jobs would be lost in the insurance sector when it’s all taken under the public sector? I suspect that would be a really hard sell.

  53. The fact is that our current Medicare program covering 40-45 million Americans is headed for bankruptcy. So either these politicians are ignorant of facts, or they are aware and are, therefore, exceedingly unintelligent or exceedingly duplicitous. Either way, they are utterly unfit to represent American citizens (although they certainly fit right in with most of the rest who do).

    1. That isn’t a fact at all. It’s a lie that the right has been telling for decades as part of their agenda to abolish Medicare.

  54. Has anyone else noticed the the resident prog clowns (Tony, Kirkland, OBL, and Hihn) are never anywhere to be found on these articles about the unicorn government programs leftist Democrats are peddling? They must know the pile-on will be especially bad when people stand to lose good health plans because a scratch-n-sniff twat like Harris hates them.

    1. It’s just too much bullshit to wade through. You offer literally nothing as a universal healthcare plan and expect us to lick your boots for your policy’s pristine beauty.

      If I were Kamala I would have said “Who likes their fucking insurance plan? How do they even know if there is something better if there are no fucking options besides the expensive terrible for-profit employer-based insurance they’ve been force-fed?” Except without the fucks.

      1. It’ll never pass anyway. Even if they manage to get something through the legislature and signed by a Democrat president, it’ll be watered down. And, I’ll spend the $3,000/year for each of my family members to have concierge health care, where each doctor only takes 1,000 patients, the offices are elegant, and the full annual physical and blood panel is included.

        And I REALLY don’t give two rotting fucks whether it pisses off progressives. It’s the same reason we’re making annual legal transfers of my dad’s fortune to my kids and my sister’s kids – so we’ll be below the threshold for estate tax.

        It’s nice doing business with you, a Tony.

      2. By the way, if you want to know the future of whatever ghetto government healthcare Harris will try to force on everyone, google the following:

        “canada’s private clinics surge”

        Read the 2006 NY Times article that comes up.

  55. To me, the weirdest thing about Harris’ remarks is that she seems to assume that there will no pressure by the government on doctors and patients to keep fees within government expectations. What, the government isn’t going to require paperwork or be particular about procedures and fees? The unspoken message is that, unlike private insurance, all you have to do is ask for it, and–boom–you get it free. Nobody”s going to believe that.

    1. > The unspoken message is that, unlike private insurance, all you have to do is ask for it, and–boom–you get it free. Nobody”s going to believe that.

      I wouldn’t say that message is unspoken. That is the message that gullible progs, and unfortunately liberals too, want to hear. So, the aging communists like Sanders and Harris make that claim openly. And, young people and kool-aid drinkers believe it because the universities and media reinforce the lie. Young leftists support it because they believe the rich will pay for it, and old leftist support it because they know their taxes will shrink with age and benefits will increase…unless the rationing kills then, but the media would never divulge that little tidbit.

  56. I am at a loss as to why you must eliminate private health insurance to obtain single payer health care. In the UK we have the NHS (National Health Service) but we also have private insurance companies such as BUPA. The two run ok and tbh, those people who can afford to go private obviously reduce the burden on the NHS as they do not use up the NHS resources.

    It makes no sense to me.

    1. Google the following:

      “canada’s private clinics surge”

      Read the 2006 NY Times article that comes up. It explains why the left will never accept the existence of private healthcare, with or without a public system.

    2. “I am at a loss as to why you must eliminate private health insurance to obtain single payer health care.”

      Leftists get a sexual thrill out of forcing others to bend to their will.

  57. More Government?

    “An error lurking in the roots of a system of thought does not become truth simply by being evolved.” -John Frederick Peifer

    Medicare offers its recipients playing without paying ? at least not paying the full costs. As Ronald Reagan opined in 1965, it’s socialism pure and simple. Medicare sealed the economic doom of this nation and lit one of the matches setting it on fire.

    Science says, “Behavior has its consequences.”

    What have been the consequences of Medicare? Has the nation gained or lost? If corruption, debt, inefficiency, governmental control, and Sovietization of medicine are gains, the nation has gained.

    Instead, consider a detailed plan for delivery of universal, competitive medical care by the private sector characterized by the following attributes:
    1) Simple;
    2) Straightforward;
    3) Free from special taxes;
    4) Minimal regulations;
    5) Minimal bureaucracy;
    6) Free of fraud at taxpayers’ expense; and
    7) Acceptable to insurance companies.

    Is such a plan available now? Yes, it has been waiting silently since 1994.* It is based upon the Science of Human Behavior.

    *See Moss, GR: Healthcare Reform D.O.A. Beverly Hills, Calif.: LifeMAX Press (1994); now out-of-print but revised in Retribution Fever (2018). Nominated for two, national awards by the American Risk & Insurance Association, academic arm of the American insurance-industry. The author, a physician, was a consultant to the government in Sweden on “healthcare” reform.

  58. I essentially started about a month and a 1/2 agone and i have gotten a couple of test for a whole of $2,200…this is the bestcall I made amidst pretty some time! “grateful to you for giving Maine this incredible possibility to profit from home. This similarly cash has changed my existence in such an excellent measure of courses, to the point that, bypass on you!”…….GOOD LUCK Click this Below
    connect ………. http://www.Mesalary.com

  59. So instead of the doctor asking, “I’m not sure if the insurance company will cover this”, doctors will be asking, “I’m not sure if the government will cover this.”

    By jove it’s BRILLIANT!

    Did she win the “Are you smarter than a Democrat” contest?

    1. “I’m sure the government won’t cover this.”
      “I don’t really give a damn. I can’t be fired for incompetence. “

  60. Let’s hope she and Bernie get to run together as a team. Their political careers shall die like Norman Thomas’. Norman who?

  61. Start working at home with Google. It’s the most-financially rewarding I’ve ever done. On tuesday I got a gorgeous BMW after having earned $8699 this last month. I actually started five months/ago and practically straight away was bringin in at least $96, per-hour. visit this site right here…….2citypays.com

  62. This may sound wonderful to leftists but the majority of Americans will never simply cede all their decision making power to the Feds. Right now, mandatory spending on programs like medicaid is almost 1/2 of then amount allocated which in 2015 was 2.45 trillion. Obamacare was supposed to lower costs and instead made healthcare not only unaffordable but unusable. Many people today have the money to cover a financial emergency for a month ($1000). The cheapest Obamacare plan has a deductible of $2000. Many found although they pay for “heathcare” for all practical purposes, they have none. The intent of Obamacare was to move the US in this direction so the fact Democrats are now pushing it is no real surprise

    1. “This may sound wonderful to leftists but the majority of Americans will never simply cede all their decision making power to the Feds. ”

      We have ceded the right to self treat. We have ceded the right to purchase health care advice from any but the government deputized health care gate keepers. We have ceded what must be covered in our plans, and hidden taxation through forced insurance pools.

      We have next to no decision making power *left* to cede to the Feds.

  63. I’m all for this if, and only if, for the next 18 months, everyone in Congress drops their current medical coverage and signs up with the VA. No sneaking around to a private doctor either. Then, if they are alive and/or believe that is the best way to go, we hang them from the flagpole. Win-win.

  64. I commend Harris for a rare moment of candor.

  65. “The idea,” she said, “is that everyone gets access to medical care and you don’t have to go through the process of going through an insurance company, having them give you approval, going through all the paperwork, all of the delay that may require. Who of us have not had that situation where you have to wait for approval and the doctor says, ‘I don’t know if your insurance company is going to cover this.’ Let’s eliminate all of that. Let’s move on.”

    I think all lawmakers who want Medicare for All should have to be on a Medicare plan for at least 4 years. Because all the problems she lists exist in Medicare and Medicaid too

  66. Just last week, a survey found that that only 37 percent of the public supported Medicare for All when told it would eliminate private health insurance.

  67. It seems that the sweet spot would be a system where there is a Public Option (whatever MediSomething that turns out to be) and folks are put there by default, making the competing ObamaRomneyHeritageCare plans be opt-in. If folks think that the private plans are better, they can go through the hassles of signing up for them.

Please to post comments

Comments are closed.