ICE

Once Again, ICE Detained an American Citizen

The ACLU blames local law enforcement after ICE detains an American-born veteran with the intent to deport him.

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|||Bruce Chambers/ZUMApress/Newscom
Bruce Chambers/ZUMApress/Newscom

Jilmar Ramos-Gomez was born in America. In Michigan, to be exact. By the time he was 27, the Marine veteran had earned awards and other accolades for his service in Afghanistan.

He had also been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder. The Associated Press reports that in late November, Ramos-Gomez was taken to a Kent County jail for trespassing and damaging a fire alarm at a hospital. He was arrested and pleaded guilty. Then Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) took the American citizen from jail and transported him 70 miles with intent to deport him.

Rather than letting him leave the jail to await sentencing, ICE contacted the jail and asked that he be held. Kent officials claim in a letter that they neither had jurisdiction once ICE took Ramos-Gomez nor the authority to verify ICE's intentions.

After three days in federal custody and contact from a lawyer on behalf of Ramos-Gomez's family, the veteran was released.

Now the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) is demanding an investigation into the Kent officials who turned Ramos-Gomez over to ICE. In a letter addressed to Sheriff Michelle LaJoye-Young and the county commissioners, the ACLU lambasts the county for turning "a vulnerable, mentally ill United States citizen over to ICE so that he could be deported from his country."

So how does this happen to an American citizen?

According to the ACLU, part of the blame lies in law enforcement officials willing to subvert the criminal justice process to accommodate federal agents. In a statement, the group says that "the Kent County Sheriff's Department should have immediately released Mr. Ramos-Gomez" in compliance with his sentencing schedule. Instead, Kent law enforcement worked "with ICE agents to enable his transfer."

Another piece of the puzzle might be found in ICE's history of mismanagement. For many years, audits have found chronic mismanagement, misconduct, and a poor reporting and disciplinary system at the agency. ICE's internal and administrative issues have had an impact on external operations. ICE reports that it released Ramos-Gomez three days after receiving proof of citizenship, but it claims that the veteran identified himself as a foreign national. One can only question whether the agency thought to verify this alleged statements before detaining him. (The Washington Post reports that email requests for further information received an automatic reply indicating that communications officials were away due to the government shutdown.)

Miriam Aukerman, senior staff attorney for the ACLU's Michigan office, tells Reason:

We owe combat veterans like Jilmar Ramos-Gomez, who bravely fought for our country in Afghanistan, a tremendous debt of gratitude. Instead of honoring his service, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement tried to deport a U.S. citizen and decorated Marine combat veteran, and local authorities made that possible. This terrible incident is the predictable consequence of two things: ICE's reckless, no-holds-barred approach to immigration enforcement, and local law enforcement's willingness to blindly facilitate ICE's deportation efforts in their communities.

Bonus link: This is not the first time ICE detained an U.S. citizen. A father was kept in ICE detention for nearly two years until a court confirmed that he was an American.

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  1. Ramos-Gomez was taken to a Kent County jail for trespassing and damaging a fire alarm at a hospital. He was arrested and pleaded guilty.

    So a CRIMINAL a broke the law and was punished? Sorry TreasonNN if I don’t have any sympathy for a law breaker.

    1. No one is asking you to be sympathetic over his lawful punishment for his crimes.

      However, after his lawful punishment was complete, ICE attempted to deport a natural born US Citizen. Be a afraid, be very afraid.

      1. Be even more afraid looking at some of the responses to these comments. Even when ICE themselves admitted they were wrong, we still have “libertarian” commenters trying to make excuses and run interference for them.

        1. Hey fella, some of us libertarians believe in the rule of law.

          1. A faux libertarian bigot who can’t comprehend a simple news report or the rule of law.

            Ignorant, intolerant, and authoritarian is no way to go through life, Crusty. Thank goodness America largely ignores your preferences when improving.

          2. There is zero rule of law in ICE attempting to deport a natural born US citizen.

            1. Luckily, Rule of Law prevented him from actually being deported.

              1. Thank God for Due Process.

        2. Be even more afraid looking at some of the responses to these comments. Even when ICE themselves admitted they were wrong, we still have “libertarian” commenters trying to make excuses and run interference for them.

          Can you quote the responses you are referencing here? I ask because i looked at the time stamp, then read through the thread, and I see no responses of that type, with the possible exception of one. You allude to “commenters” so I’m wondering which ones you are alluding to.

          1. He is referring to us smart commenters.

            1. He’s still funny just not ‘HA HA’ funny.

              We want the real Crusty!

      2. But, reading the story, they attempted to deport a natural born US citizen who told them he was an illegal alien.

        This is like complaining that the police jailed somebody who told them he was a bank robber. You expect law enforcement to be suspicious of confessions?

        1. Anti-government yahoos suddenly become avid consumers of government-provided information when that information advances backwardness and intolerance. The government agents claim the man declared he was a foreign national and the government claims it is “unsure” whether the citizen protested when the federal agents grabbed him.

          Conservatives swallow it all. Because they always believe the government and find it to be useful and reliable.

          Carry on, clingers. Until the reign of your Goober King ends, soon enough, that is.

          1. The ACLU claims this fellow had his passport with him when he was arrrested. But clingers don’t believe the ACLU, preferring to swallow the sweet, sweet truths declared by the government — but only if the government is trying to kill someone or is engaged in bigoted and authoritarian conduct, of course.

    2. “So a CRIMINAL a broke the law and was punished? Sorry TreasonNN if I don’t have any sympathy for a law breaker.”

      Yeah, it’s not like they tried to deport him or anything like that.

      Did we miss a sarcasm tag here?

  2. So a brown guy broke the law. Who cares. Cops were right to just assume he was an illegal immigrant. Amirite?

    1. Broken eggs, omelettes, etc., etc.

    2. “but it claims that the veteran identified himself as a foreign national”

      If he did that then why is it anyone else’s fault? You’re mad that law enforcement believed him?

      1. Gee I don’t know, maybe the authorities should perform a bit of due diligence on the claims made by suspects in their custody?

        I’d bet $100 that if the same guy had said “I’m an American” that they would have tried to verify that claim. But “I’m a foreigner”? Oh, AND he’s a brown person? Too good to check! Deport his ass!

        1. Gee I don’t know, maybe the authorities should perform a bit of due diligence on the claims made by suspects in their custody?

          Papiere Bitte!

          1. This case is the complete opposite of the “Papieren Bitte” trope. The authorities did not hassle an innocent person in order to try to find some excuse to punish him. They deliberately REFUSED to look at his papers because it was more convenient not to.

            But you know that, of course.

            1. This case is the complete opposite of the “Papieren Bitte” trope. The authorities did not hassle an innocent person in order to try to find some excuse to punish him.

              Who are you arguing with?

              They deliberately REFUSED to look at his papers because it was more convenient not to.

              I can’t confess to understanding the mind of someone possibly mentally disturbed, but as a one-time exceedingly low-level petty criminal at least a basally not-stupid person I know enough *not* to carry my ID on me when intentionally committing a crime.

              1. My experience has been that people in trouble rarely say or do things to cause themselves more trouble for no reason. If he claimed to be a foreign national, he’s signing up for way more trouble, so it wouldn’t be something he’d say lightly.

                1. My experience has been that people in trouble rarely say or do things to cause themselves more trouble for no reason.

                  It’s OK, we are all born with no experience. You’ll get some eventually.

              2. From the ACLU statement:

                “The police report shows that Mr. Ramos-Gomez had his passport on him when he was arrested.”

                1. So you got me thinking and I busted out my passport. It is 7 years old at this point and has a picture of me 30 pounds ago, sans facial hair. It doesn’t actually look like me too much, but could be my younger less fat brother.

                  I’m not sure how it would be of any use in a situation like this.

                2. Can you see him? His raped, beaten, broken body soaked in their urine, soaked in their semen, soaked in their blood, left to die. Can you see him? I want you to picture that poor veteran. Now imagine his last name is Ivanov!

                  I’m gonna be honest. Even if you find someone else to take Spacey’s place, I just don’t think the reboot going to sell.

            2. If only people in America illegally would tell the truth and admit that they are non-Americans.

              If only….

        2. “”I’d bet $100 that if the same guy had said “I’m an American” that they would have tried to verify that claim. But “I’m a foreigner”? Oh, AND he’s a brown person? Too good to check! Deport his ass!”‘

          Not defending anything but just pointing out that government routinely accepts information of guilt by a person without further investigation.

          1. ^this.

            The open border people see all the example of government incompetence and then expect the government to check out the story of a defendant who says that they are in the USA illegally.

            This would make a great movie about the “attempted wrongful deportation”, like the movie The Life of David Gale.

            1. To get rid of the death penalty, trick the state into executing an innocent person.

              To get rid of border security policy, trick the state into almost deporting an American.

              That movie would NOT be a box office flop.

            2. The Life of David Gale sucked balls.

              It sucked so many balls, that Kevin Spacey had to go out and fondle a teenager’s balls just to reassure himself of his masculinity

              1. I need to make The Life of David Gale fit. But yeah I saw it once and never saw it again.

                The premise seemed to fit this tricked the state into an “attempted deportation” narrative.

      2. “ICE reports that it released Ramos-Gomez three days after receiving proof of citizenship”

        Yeah, once they found out the truth they hopped right on making things right. Sort of.

      3. The guy’s mentally ill, so I don’t think it’s good habit to operate purely off of his claims regardless of what they are.
        Also, it says that’s what he told its officers, but it begs the question of why was ICE there in the first place? The story isn’t clear about why ICE contacted the jail.

        1. The ACLU blames local law enforcement after ICE detains an American-born veteran with the intent to deport him.

          It’s pretty clear to me that he was trespassing and fucking with a fire alarm, which he later pleaded guilty to doing but, while in police custody, claimed to be a foreign national and was transferred to ICE. Once somebody could confirm who the fuck he was, they let him go (to face trial for the crimes to which he pleaded guilty).

          There really is no libertarian story here.

          1. Yes you’re right. Police incompetence and racist assumptions are to be ignored and even justified if it means serving the border restrictionist cause.

            1. Yes you’re right. Police incompetence and racist assumptions are to be ignored and even justified if it means serving the border restrictionist cause.

              the authorities should perform a bit of due diligence on the claims made by suspects in their custody?

              Due diligence took 3 days by the proper authorities following your instructions to a ‘T’. Don’t want to get inconveniently tangled up in the system like a thug? Don’t trespass at a hospital, destroy a fire alarm, and maybe/maybe not claim to be a foreign national like thug.

              1. The local authorities did NOT perform due diligence when they just accepted his claim at face value and handed him over to ICE without bothering to check.

                “Hey look, here’s a brown guy who says he’s a foreigner. That’s enough proof for me – hand him over to ICE!”

                1. The local authorities did NOT perform due diligence when they just accepted his claim at face value and handed him over to ICE without bothering to check.

                  “Hey look, here’s a brown guy who says he’s a foreigner. That’s enough proof for me – hand him over to ICE!”

                  The role of the Kent County Sheriff’s Office in this very unfortunate situation was that of a holding facility. We do not possess the authority to verify the investigative justification for detaining a person. We regret any circumstance in which an individual is detained needlessly regardless of whether the person is being held by local or federal authorities, and we believe this case underscores the need for immigration policy reform.

                  Are you on their side or are they on yours? Wait… I don’t care!

                  1. We do not possess the authority to verify the investigative justification for detaining a person.

                    So they didn’t possess the authority to take a look at the passport that he was carrying?

                    From the ACLU statement:

                    “The police report shows that Mr. Ramos-Gomez had his passport on him when he was arrested.”

                    1. To be fair, passports can be faked. Easily. And they would, at least by their own assertion, not have the ability to check that. Whether their assertion is true or not… yeah I dunno that I buy it.

                    2. To be fair, passports can be faked.

                      Um, no. They put a lot of stuff in passports to verify the document is legit. I would think it’s possible to fake a US passport, but certainly not by or for some what-a-doodle fucking with a fire alarm

                    3. Um, no. They put a lot of stuff in passports to verify the document is legit. I would think it’s possible to fake a US passport, but certainly not by or for some what-a-doodle fucking with a fire alarm

                      There’s also a bit of backwards aspect to this. In my experience (as an American) Americans are notorious for three things when it comes to passports: a) not having it with them when travelling domestically, b) not having it with them generally, and c) not having one at all. A and B aren’t uniquely American, but A, B, and C are pretty distinctly American.

                      Moreover, in my superficial understanding of various legal systems worldwide, your passport doesn’t automatically buy your way out of police custody as much as point the police in whatever direction to start the verification process (however long that may take). Get arrested and provide only your passport in the EU and any one of a dozen international agencies can potentially detain you further. Not to say that our system is good, but it’s not unique, nor is it uniquely bad, and/or nor is it strictly an immigration issue.

                    4. Um, no. They put a lot of stuff in passports to verify the document is legit

                      I’m sorry but you’re flat wrong. Passports are faked all day, every day.

                      However, that wasn’t the point. The “stuff” only works if the person checking the passport can verify it using said “stuff.” The claim was that thr local PD could not. So all the “stuff” in the wprld2 means bupkis.

                    5. To be fair, passports can be faked. Easily. And they would, at least by their own assertion, not have the ability to check that. Whether their assertion is true or not… yeah I dunno that I buy it.

                      At this point, completely ignoring the ‘American’ or ‘foreign national’ aspect, pick any country in the world and: “Someone was apprehended trespassing on the helipad after setting a fire in a local hospital. His identity was confirmed by the fact that he was carrying his passport.” sounds like the opening of the next Mission Impossible or Bourne film. And… throwing in the military service history, PTSD, and any claim that may or may not have taken place, it’s totally believable that Ramos-Gomez believes it.

                      It’s probably how he got out of an arson charge.

                    6. So Chemjeff points out the County jail’s mistake.

                2. Look, not a lot of diligence is due when somebody claims to be guilty of a crime.

          2. Agreed – the government plan worked.

            Try to turn over another rock, TreasonNN.

            1. These charges stemmed from a situation in which Mr. Ramos-Gomez allegedly
              gained access to a secure area at Spectrum Butterworth Hospital, set a fire, pulled the fire alarm,
              and gained access to the helipad.

              “Man who set hospital on fire is held for 3 days while ICE investigates identity. Libertarians weep over miscarriage of justice.”

              What is the normal stay for arson and attempted helicopter-jacking?

              1. What is the normal stay for arson and attempted helicopter-jacking?

                You mean after a conviction, right?

                1. IT DOESN’T SAY TOXIC MASCULINITY HERP DERP!!!

                  1. Oh good, I can’t wait for you to follow me around and let everyone know that when I make a mistake, I accept responsibility and apologize for it. We all know that’s the wrong thing to do.

                    1. “Cathy L|1.15.19 @ 5:14PM|#

                      You are right. My bad.”

                      Some apology.

                      Eat crow and stop whining about it bitch. You sure didn’t have that type of economy of words when you were stupidly insisting toxic masculinity was never mentioned.

                    2. Eat crow and stop whining about it bitch.

                      Lol. I did, and looks like you’re the one who can’t stop whining.

                    3. “Oh good, I can’t wait for you to follow me around and let everyone know that when I make a mistake”

                      Look harder, stop whining and stop lying about apologizing.

                      Now shut the fuck up and eat the crow you earned.

                2. You mean after a conviction, right?

                  I’ll accept the stay for arson prior to a conviction.

              2. What is the normal stay for arson and attempted helicopter-jacking?

                Whatever the law says it is.

          3. Here’s the relevant part from the AP story:

            “ICE released a statement Wednesday evening saying Ramos-Gomez told its officers he was “a foreign national illegally present in the U.S,” and the agency took him into custody on Dec. 14. ICE said it released him three days later after receiving documentation suggesting he was a U.S. citizen.

            Ramos-Gomez was in the Kent County jail after being accused of trespassing and damaging a fire alarm at a Grand Rapids hospital on Nov. 21. The ACLU said he pleaded guilty and was supposed to be released on Dec. 14 while awaiting a sentence.

            But ICE contacted the jail and requested that Ramos-Gomez be held for pickup. Kent County Undersheriff Chuck DeWitt said ICE, like other law enforcement agencies, has access to fingerprint records.”

            It says that ICE contacted the jail, and that he told ICE officers he was a foreign national. It doesn’t say that he told local law enforcement that, and it does not say that local law enforcement contacted ICE to have him deported. The Undersheriff’s quote about fingerprint records also does not imply this. So that leaves the question of why ICE wanted him in the first place. The ACLU is blaming local law enforcement for handing him over, they’re not claiming that they initiated the deportation proceedings.

            Also, ICE’s claim here is highly convenient and self-serving, so I think at least a little bit of skepticism is warranted.

            1. Ramos-Gomez was in the Kent County jail after being accused of trespassing and damaging a fire alarm at a Grand Rapids hospital on Nov. 21. The ACLU said he pleaded guilty and was supposed to be released on Dec. 14 while awaiting a sentence.

              Read the police letter of what, more fully/allegedly happened. I certainly wouldn’t go so far as to say or try to discern whether they were downplaying his actions out of sensitivity to a service member, objective impartiality under the rule of law, or progressive SJWing their way around or out of a brown-skinned domestic terrorist narrative or whatever, but “trespassed and damaged a fire alarm” is a rather… minimized description of “set a hospital on fire in an attempt to gain access to a helicopter”.

              1. WTF does that have to do with ICE?

                1. He was still in state custody, on O.R. bond, pending sentencing hearing for those crimes.

                  1. Again – what does any of this have to do with why ICE detained him in the first place? It’s not SOP for ICE to detain anyone who gets arrested.

                    1. “ICE released a statement Wednesday evening saying Ramos-Gomez told its officers he was “a foreign national illegally present in the U.S,”

                      Its evidently SOP to initiate deportation proceedings against someone who admits that they are a non-American here illegally.

                      Most Americans dont know what ICE S.O.P. is since immigration laws were not fully enforced during the last president.

                    2. Its like Tony admitting that he an ISIS terrorist.

                      The FBI might initiate legal proceedings against him.

                      That’s the thing about admissions, sometimes they’re acted upon.

                    3. False confessions are common. Indeed, in cases where cops actually want the real culprit (as opposed to a scapegoat or an easy “win”), they typically don’t pay much attention to confessions. It turns out the notion that nobody ever confesses against their “self-interest” is a legal myth.

                      Which is not to say that confessions are a big part of our legal system, merely that their primary function is as a “put into jail free” card for LE rather than the pursuit of actual justice.

                    4. aren’t*

        2. Where is the evidence that this guy is “mentally ill” to be excused for his actions?

          We should not let ICE off if they messed up.

          We should not let the local jail off if they messed up.

          There are all sorts of veterans from many different wars that got messed up in the head and they never broke the law.

          1. “Where is the evidence that this guy is “mentally ill” to be excused for his actions?”

            What actions do you imagine that the veteran is being excused for? He served the full sentence for the crime he committed.

            1. Liar. Look below and at the ACLU letter.

              The judge released him on O.R. bond pending sentencing hearing.

              HE WAS STILL IN STATE CUSTODY….in case you can’t read.

        3. All I know is that this is unnecessarily complicated because the guy lied. Should policemen and ICE to be trained in determining mental illnesses on the spot?

          I bet the authorities Jeff is so mad at are white, black, brown, all kinds of races. But somehow this is about race because feelings.

          1. Chemjeff does not like our Constitutional Democratic Republic, so anything that tears that down is good to him.

          2. Racists are super-sensitive about race, e.g. Nazis badgering Jews.

            Jeff is showing his true colors.

      4. One can only question whether the agency thought to verify this alleged statements before detaining him.

        Check his papers! Unless he claims to be a foreign national then you’re a statist fuck for wanting to check his papers in the first place. Also, shut up and charge the tax payers to fix that fire alarm that was broken when he got here.

      5. That ICE claims that the veteran identified himself as a foreign national, doesn’t make it true. Why should ICE be believed on a self-serving CYA claim made without evidence?

        1. Why should anyone crossing the border be believed about their intentions in this country?

          CLOSE THE BORDER!!!!!

          /s

        2. Its what official investigations are for.

          If they are done properly, a recommendation should be made to verify all citizenship info before deportation proceedings begin.

      6. I actually doubt that he said that very much, except perhaps sarcastically.

    3. They are just preparing for a Latin American equivalent to Liberia.

    4. If only open border people made this big of a deal on anecdotes about illegals who harm Americans and are crimes that are 100% preventable.

  3. We owe combat veterans like Jilmar Ramos-Gomez, who bravely fought for our country in Afghanistan, a tremendous debt of gratitude.

    “Like all United States citizens we at the ACLU want any firearms he might possess taken away from him by armed state agents regardless of established civil liberties, but we do owe him a debt of gratitude.”

  4. As a fellow bad hombre whose ‘homeland‘ is Israel, this story makes me shudder. Because I too could be deported. Even worse, they could detain me indefinitely: “We can’t send him back – the wall isn’t built yet you idiot!” (As if I would cross back across the Mexican border.) Well this is why we must fight funding for the wall. (And end PTSD ‘treatment’, which causes episodes like this, but that’s a whole nother story.)

  5. Ideally, if state prison authorities have a foreign national in their custody, they could contact ICE *after* he’s served his sentence. The state needs to exercise its 10th Amendment prerogative to punish lawbreakers, including illegals.

    Once they learn that a convicted foreign national is going to be released, ICE should then be able to have their people hang out at the prison gates to make their arrest. But I’d say let the state get its bite at the apple first.

    Also, let’s allow personal liability for any law enforcement person who mistakes a citizen for an alien. Otherwise they’re going to be careless in making the distinction – only the possibility of having to pay for their mistakes will make them double-check the paperwork and double-check it again.

  6. You have to love the consistency of Reason. If a Katie Steinle or Mollie Tibbits gets murdered, those are outliers to be ignored, but if one single American is inconvenienced in the course of enforcing immigration law, by god, THAT’S AN INJUSTICE THAT CANNOT STAND, SIR! THAT CANNOT STAND!

    1. That’s right! Hassle the brownz so that the cute white blond coeds aren’t murdered by the dusky illegals. What, you say that there are some brownz who are citizens too? WHO REALLY GIVES A FUCK, THEY’RE NOT CUTE WHITE COEDS!

      1. Jeff, how empty would your life be if all people who disagreed with you on open borders weren’t fearful racists?
        Never mind. Probably best not to think about.

    2. but if one single American is inconvenienced in the course of enforcing immigration law

      Not even immigration law. He was trespassing and he did damage property. If, in the process of being booked, he’d said “I know where there are a half dozen bodies buried.” or “I can give you the ins and outs of every chop shop in the city.” or “I’m a Russian national who colluded with the Trump campaign!” Passing him up the chain and/or detaining him in order to sort out the details is SOP.

    3. if one single American is inconvenienced in the course of enforcing immigration law, by god, THAT’S AN INJUSTICE THAT CANNOT STAND, SIR! THAT CANNOT STAND!

      The brother said something there.

    4. Yup. That is why Reason is a propaganda outlet.

      Reason’s official un-Libertarian position is that that the USA should open borders and they will print any lie, manufactured event, and narrative to get their way.

      Luckily, nobody wants Reason staff in charge of the USA.

      1. Reason’s official un-Libertarian position is that that the USA should open borders and they will print any lie, manufactured event, and narrative to get their way.

        It’s more like their official position. In fact, I trust ICE more than I trust the garbage TreasonNN prints.

        1. I certainly trust ICE to adhere to it’s statist principles more than I trust Reason not to.

    5. An illegal immigrant murdered Mollie Tibbits.

      Davis (from the article):

      “So how does this happen to an American citizen?

      According to the ACLU, part of the blame lies in law enforcement officials willing to subvert the criminal justice process to accommodate undermine federal agents.”

  7. >>>For many years, audits have found chronic mismanagement, misconduct, and a poor reporting and disciplinary system at the agency

    every. every agency.

  8. Does it matter where his custody for his plead offense was served?

    If it does, I am sure that Reason will do a plethora of stories on the unconstitutionality of private prisons.

    Otherwise, this guy served his sentence in a federal facility and on the road between facilities.

    Reason always picks bad actors for their stories.

    1. “Does it matter where his custody for his plead offense was served?”

      They tried to deport an American citizen. That noise you just heard was the entire point whizzing over your head.

      1. More accurately, they tried to deport someone who claimed to be foreign and here illegally until they found out he was an American.

      2. They tried to deport an American citizen.

        Show me. They turned an American citizen who was going to prison anyway over to ICE. If I ever set a hospital on fire I *hope* they offer me the option of prison or a one-way ticket to Mexico.

      3. We get it Bevis, you want open borders.

        You will never convince those of us who dont want open borders when you take one of a few cases of “almost deporting an American” and base your position on emotion.

        This is one of millions of deportations that have taken place.

        Its like people arrested when they didnt do it. The Constitution requires probable cause before someone can be arrested. The Constitution does not require an absolute proving of guilt before an arrest can be made.

        Determine the causes of arrests of innocent persons and try to eliminate or minimize them.

        Determine the cause of this incorrect deportation attempt and minimize it.

        We are not stopping deportation of illegals and securing the border. Your side losses.

        1. This is not an open borders issue. ICE attempted to deport a natural born US citizen.

          1. Key word “attempted”.

            Attempted to deport an American in state custody for crimes.

            The 13th Amendment provides for slavery as punishment for crimes.

            Slavery vs “attempted deportation”.

        2. We get it Bevis, you want open borders.

          Yep – that’s obvious. Bevis repeats the open-borders talking points he gets from TreasonNN.

          Bevis? More like a Butthead, am I right or am I right?

          1. I am Cornholio!

            1. Lake Titicaca

            2. Blue-Footed… BOOBY!

        3. “We get it Bevis, you want open borders.”

          No, no I don’t. I’ve said so explicitly several times in response to Reason stories. Of course, it’s hard to be explicit enough to accommodate someone that has reading and comprehension skills that are equivalent to the average 3 year-old.

          And ICE claimed the guy said he was a foreign national. Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. There’s no rational reason for an American-born veteran to claim to be a foreigner, but who knows? I mean, they’d have no reason to lie about that to cover their asses, right?

          The philosophy of the typical rightist Reason commenter – “The government is awful. They lie to us all the time. They are lying liars who lie. Except for ICE and law enforcement – when they say something it’s the fucking gospel”.

          1. Great… investigate this one of a few incidents of “attempted deportation” and verify defendant info next time.

            Problem solved.

            I think that I will convince Tony to yell bomb on an airplane so police will arrest him. I will testify that there was no bomb and Tony was just kidding.

            Then we can have the ACLU represent Tony because the police fucked up.

          2. And ICE claimed the guy said he was a foreign national. Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. There’s no rational reason for an American-born veteran to claim to be a foreigner, but who knows? I mean, they’d have no reason to lie about that to cover their asses, right?

            And the ACLU is the one true source of God’s honest truth. As I said above, I know that wherever I go, if I set a hospital on fire and need to beat a hasty retreat, my passport is the one document I can’t live without.

          3. The philosophy of the typical rightist Reason commenter – “The government is awful. They lie to us all the time. They are lying liars who lie. Except for ICE and law enforcement – when they say something it’s the fucking gospel”.

            Couldn’t have said it better myself.

            This thread is a rampant orgy of biases on display.

    2. The crime he was being held on was NOT a federal offense.

      He served his full sentence in a state facility.

      He was detained by ICE and held in a federal facility AFTER his sentence was Completed.

      1. Your citation fell off. He was in state custody on O.R. bond, you liar.

        “Rather than letting him leave the jail to await sentencing, ICE contacted the jail and asked that he be held.”

        From the ACLU letter to the Sheriff: The police report shows that Mr. Ramos-Gomez had his
        passport on him when he was arrested. He pled guilty to a trespassing charge, and the
        judge ordered him released on a personal recognizance bond on Friday, December 14,
        2018, pending a pre-sentence investigation.

  9. ICE might do a better job if it had less chaos to manage. Maybe if we had a secure border, good immigration policy, and a smaller number of people in the country illegally, then ICE could be smaller and function better.

    1. +1000

    2. There we go. Running interference for ICE again. “It’s everyone else’s fault that ICE is incompetent!”

      1. There we go. Running interference for AnarchyLand again, Chemjeff.

        “It’s everyone else’s fault that Chemjeff is incompetent!”

    3. Well, since border security is impossible (certainly while prohibition of some drugs exists, though the experience of the UK tends to argue in favor of the notion that scofflaws are way more creative and efficacious than government), I guess the ICE gets a free pass forever, huh?

  10. I honestly see nothing wrong with this. He was arrested for committing a crime. I don’t care if he was investigated for possible deportation. He wasn’t deported. How are we supposed to know 100% which people need to be deported before they’re even investigated?

    1. ^this

      Its like people that are “almost arrested” but were not arrested. There is no constitutional violation of the 4A about the right of the people to be secure in their persons, if that person is never arrested.

    2. “How are we supposed to know 100% which people need to be deported before they’re even investigated?”

      Fuckin’ A, man. Deport ’em first and let God sort it out.

      1. Or…. dont say your non-American to ICE, since its their job to deport non-Americans.

      2. He didn’t get deported, but thanks for playing.

  11. Bonus link: This is not the first time ICE detained an U.S. citizen. A father was kept in ICE detention for nearly two years until a court confirmed that he was an American.

    Yeah…

    “ICE disagreed. After Jaen finished serving time for his second drug conviction in April 2016…”>/i>

    Kudos for ICE trying to find a way to get this guy out of the country.

    1. From the bonus link:

      For much of his life, Jaen had no reason to doubt his citizenship. The 46-year-old was born in Panama, but his parents moved to New York in the 1950s, and his father eventually became a U.S. citizen. Jaen came to New York in 1988 on a visa and made a life for himself in the U.S., fathering four children, one of whom is autistic.

      (BTW: The fact that it was a drug conviction that got this ball rolling does bother me, but the rest doesn’t).
      Jaen was born in Panama. His mother apparently not a US citizen. His biological father not a US citizen (based on his birth certificate). The man who raised him became a US citizen. But Jaen came to the US on a visa? Why would he need a visa if he was a US citizen?

      It took the court 2 years to figure this out, so it isn’t like this was open and shut.

      And WTF difference does it make if he has an autistic son? This was either an unfortunate accident, or a miscarriage of justice.

      1. I remember that story which reason latched onto.

        It didnt get the desired effect, so they move to stories like this.

        Its more evidence that Reason is a propaganda machine. Not the comment section though.

  12. Here is a fun thought experiment: who makes more mistakes, the media or ICE?

    1. Chemjeff.

        1. You don’t have to tell me.

          These clowns make it so easy.

          Speaking of fire:
          What do you call Stephen Hawking on fire?
          -Hot wheels.

          1. What is black and sits at the top of the stairs?
            ? Steven Hawking after a house fire.

            1. This is mine now

          2. When Chuck Norris wants to burn calories, he throws fat children into the fire.

          3. What do you call a retard in a house fire?
            -Flame Retardant

          4. You don’t have to tell me.

            These clowns make it so easy.

            Pretty sure you’re being trolled. I’m only telling you because you won’t listen anyway.

  13. . . . but it claims that the veteran identified himself as a foreign national.

    ‘What sort of spic are you Gomez? Puerto Rican?

    ‘I’m Mexican.’

    ‘Gotcha! Deport him boys.’

    1. Didn’t you get the memo? Today is “Circle The Wagons Around ICE” Day. It’s everyone else’s fault that they screwed up!

      I actually blame more of the local law enforcement than ICE on this one. All the local authorities had to do was look at the passport that he had on him when he was arrested. But nope, they couldn’t even have been bothered to do that.

      1. All the local authorities had to do was look at the passport that he had on him when he was arrested

        Without being able to verify it ( as they claim they can’t do) how does looking at it help?

        1. Chemjeff is okay with papers as long as its a passport that clears the subject of his anecdote.

          When its papers to verify citizenship, the outrage fills the comments section.

          When its papers to verify citizenship to vote… outrage.

        2. Does the same question apply to showing credentials and claiming to be an ICE agent?

          1. Yes. If you set a hospital on fire, are apprehended on the helipad, and, while in custody, claim to be an ICE agent, I fully expect them to take 3 days to figure out WTF is going on.

            This is what chemjeff originally wanted. Then he discovered that they ID’ed him by his passport prior to releasing him. Then he wanted us to believe the passport and ignore the fact that he claimed he’s a foreign national (and that despite having a military ID and, presumably, a driver’s license he chose a passport as his preferred form of ID).

            Selectively pay attention to the evidence chemjeff wants paid attention to and do just enough detective work to come to his conclusion that everyone involved at ICE and the Sheriff’s department is anti-immigrant/racist and then stop investigating. Shit for all we know the arresting officer’s name is Gonzalez and he’s 5th generation and the ICE or county’s transport driver’s name was Sanchez and he’s off-the-boat and been a citizen for a whole 10 yrs.

            1. Liar. That is not what I said.

              I said that they should do some due diligence. And the local law enforcement DID NOT. They arrested this guy, who claimed to be a foreigner, and they just took him at his word and shuffled him off to ICE. Then they claimed that they didn’t have the authority to check. Oh bullshit. They didn’t WANT to devote any resources to checking. His story seemed too good to check, so send him away so that he’s someone else’s problem!

              I actually blame local law enforcement more than ICE. But still. It shouldn’t take 3 days for ICE to figure out if someone is a citizen or not, especially when you’ve got his fucking passport number right in front of you. Do you REALLY think it is acceptable that it takes so long to make these kinds of checks? Maybe instead of running interference for thugs with guns, you should be demanding better from the government that you pay for, irrespective of anyone’s views on immigration. But no, it’s more important to circle the wagons in tribal defense against the Evil Open Borders Cult, isn’t it?

              God you really are a statist fuck.

              And BY THE WAY. The belief that “real Americans” correspond to white people is not just a belief shared by bigots and racists. It occurs among lots of ethnic groups based on an implicit belief that “American-ness” is more associated with white skin simply because whites are the majority. See:

              http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com…../jpr.12232

    2. ‘What sort of spic are you Gomez? Puerto Rican?

      ‘I’m Mexican.’

      ‘Gotcha! Deport him boys.’

      Check his papers! Release him! Believe his passport while investigating further! I’ve got a lot of American and European friends and we all carry our passports when travelling domestically. It just makes sense, you never know when you might have to leave the country in a hurry after setting a hospital on fire.

  14. Some of you really need to read more carefully (or bother to read the source documents in the first place):

    1. ICE said it released him three days later after receiving documentation suggesting he was a U.S. citizen.
    It doesn’t say it took 3 days to release him. At some indeterminate period after he was taken by ICE, they received documentation. Maybe they received the documentation 4 hours before releasing him. If he was picked up on a Friday, 3 days could easily happen.
    2. It was the ACLU who indicated PTSD played a part. The AP article states he is receiving mental health care and was not available for comment. For all we know, he started the treatment after this happened.
    3. The article states he told officers he was a foreign national here illegally.
    4. As others have pointed out, he didn’t “complete his sentence” and then was released. He was released on his own recognizance awaiting a pre-sentencing investigation.
    5. Lee Harvey Oswald was a US Marine too. That by itself doesn’t make this particular case better or worse.

    1. As a vet myself, I have sympathy for veterans and especially those that served in combat. That shit can fuck you up.

      With that being said, hundreds of thousands of vets who endured far worse than this guy ever could have, obeyed Rule of Law and didn’t commit crimes or lie to police about being a non-American.

      I fuck with police all the time and I would never give them a power play on me by saying that I was in the USA illegally.

      As a sailor, I wont bash the USMC but … Department of the Navy, U.S. Marine Corps.

      🙂

      1. I also was a sailor (both Navy and merchant engineering officer). I love my Marine friends (gods bless em!)

        I was merely pointing out that based on the facts of this case, I don’t think his service is necessarily relevant.

        I fuck with police all the time and I would never give them a power play on me by saying that I was in the USA illegally. THIS!

    2. Maybe they received the documentation 4 hours before releasing him. If he was picked up on a Friday, 3 days could easily happen.

      … Which justifies the arbitrary nature of the detention and being held in a way contrary to his gawddamned Constitutional rights HOW, EXACTLY?

      I just want to know. I don’t go around insinuating to people that I kiss and lick the ass of the State, so I don’t know what it takes to justify such.

      1. It’s possible that someone fucking with a fire alarm in a hospital posed a more serious potential danger than someone caught jaywalking. The incident has the earmarks of a terrorist act. I can understand an extra note of caution dealing with this guy, particularly if he said he was not a US citizen.

      2. … Which justifies the arbitrary nature of the detention and being held in a way contrary to his gawddamned Constitutional rights HOW, EXACTLY?

        I have a few friends that would love for you to show what constitutional right was violated. The right not to be arrested twice in the same day? The right not to be arrested by two separate agencies? The right not to be arrested multiple times for multiple crimes? I ask because we do this to hundreds of people, immigrant and native, daily.

  15. Is this a first? I found no table or bar chart of ICE or Communist Border Police seizures/deportations of U.S. veterans in their 2018 ICE Enforcement and Removal Operations Report. Already the Transport Sozialist Arbeiterpartei has quit busting people for having a District of Columbia driver’s license. But with Alexandria Ocasio Cortez urging defunding, more deportations of Puerto Ricans ought to surprise nobody.

  16. A father was kept in ICE detention for nearly two years until a court confirmed that he was an American.

    Yes but this is exactly why “we” should end birthright citizenship and instead let Omnipotent state decide who is a citizen worthy of respect and who isn’t, so that such embarrassments (due to the basic incompetence of overzealous ICE officials) are avoided. The State simply pronounces an individual a non-Citizen and that’s it! Cased closed!

    1. “Service guarantees citizenship!”
      – Starship Troopers

      1. Would You Like To Know More?

        [click here]

  17. Jilmar Ramos-Gomez was born in America. In East L.A. Michigan, to be exact.

    Thanks, Cheech & Chong.

  18. God bless all those ICE agents who detain American citizens.
    Hopefully, all the other law enforcement agencies in our beloved socialist slave state will take note and follow ICE’s example.
    This way, our prisons can swell, our leaders can make more money from the incarceration businesses, and more of the masses will get their proper re-education in our comfortable, clean and relaxing gulags as they are beaten, starved, tortured and shot randomly to ensure they go down the right path toward socialism.
    Keep up the good work, ICE.
    You’re a bright and shining beacon of hope to all socialist slavers everywhere.

  19. For every American accidentally detained by ICE how many Americans are raped or murdered (or both) by deportable aliens? 50? 80?

    When that ratio gets close to one a reasonable person could then argue the harm is getting close to the benefit of enforcement.

    1. For every American accidentally detained by ICE how many Americans are raped or murdered (or both) by deportable aliens? 50? 80?

      “For jaywalker accidentally detained by law enforcement, how many Americans are raped or murdered by rapists and murderers?”

      The fact that you don’t realize the complete non-sequiturial nature of your comment says way more about you than it does about anything else.

      There is no suggestion that this man was being investigated for rape or murder.

      1. For every*

  20. My two cents if i had any, the guy may have claimed to be Illegal so he could be deported on purpose to get out of further trouble it wouldn’t be the first time

    1. Wow, you mean I can get off scott-free for any crime simple by getting myself deported? Why isn’t this a more popular strategy!? It’s almost like you are completely detached from reality or something!

  21. “After three days in federal custody and contact from a lawyer on behalf of Ramos-Gomez’s family, the veteran was released.”

    Innocent Americans get held by law enforcement for things they’re innocent of all the time. That’s part of the price for our lack of omniscience.

    They’re only bitching in this case because they don’t want immigration laws enforced at all.

    1. Hey gee, maybe some of us don’t think innocent Americans, or innocent anyone, should be detained or arrested at all. But hey you do you. Pretend that your opponents lack principles if that makes you feel better about your own lack thereof.

      1. When you get that omniscience thing working, be sure to let us know, racebaiterjeff.

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