Government Shutdown

Sorry, Paul Krugman, the Government Shutdown Is No Great Libertarian Experiment

Trump's shutdown is a temporary, political fight that won't save any money or reduce the size of government.

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Jorge Nunez/EFE/Newscom

In The New York Times, columnist Paul Krugman declares that the current government shutdown can be understood as "a big, beautiful libertarian experiment." Government programs have been forced to pause, federal workers aren't being paid, the swamp of Washington is relatively quiet. Isn't this exactly what libertarians want?

Even Krugman understands that it isn't. As he acknowledges in the column, the sudden nature of a shutdown like this means private sector companies that might take over some of the federal government's current activities "don't exist now and can't be conjured up in a matter of weeks. So even true libertarians wouldn't necessarily celebrate a sudden government shutdown." To be clear: A temporary, unplanned shutdown of an undetermined length that probably won't save money is not what most libertarians have in mind when they talk about limited government.

For one thing, shutdowns like this one are shortlived and limited in scope: During the shutdown, much of the government—including automatic spending on the major entitlement programs that make up the bulk of government spending and the biggest drivers of long-term debt—remains open. And although it is at least theoretically possible that the impasse lasts for months, it increasingly looks as if President Donald Trump will declare a state of emergency, continue fighting for a border wall in the courts, and move on to ending the shutdown. So whether it lasts another two days or another two months, the rest of the government will eventually reopen. When it does, no significant long-term progress toward reducing the size of government will have been made.

Federal workers affected by the shutdown are almost certain to eventually receive backpay. That's what happened during previous shutdowns, and given that the Senate has already approved a backpay resolution for after the current shutdown ends, that's what is likely to happen this time as well.

At the same time, the federal government will, by law, owe interest on contract payments and other fiscal obligations it didn't meet during the shutdown. Which means that ultimately, the shutdown won't save taxpayers money. If anything, it might actually cost more than if the government had stayed open.

There's also public opinion to consider: Government shutdowns tend to be unpopular, and, if anything, drive support for expanding government.

Consider what happened in October 2013, when Sen. Ted Cruz (R–Texas) led a push to shut down the government over Obamacare.

The shutdown started the same day that the health law's insurance exchanges opened for business. The federal exchange system, however, crashed on launch and was barely operable for months. But initially, the shutdown drew more attention, and Obamacare, despite its obvious technical problems, actually grew more popular.

It's not too hard to imagine that keeping the government open would have led to even more intense scrutiny and criticism of the exchange failures, and stronger out-of-the-gate public disapproval. Instead, the shutdown served as a distraction. Forcing a shutdown was meant to serve as an impediment to Obamacare, but it probably made no difference, and might have been an own goal.

Which illustrates the biggest problem with shutdowns: As a tool for promoting limited government, they are nearly always tactically ineffective.

That's why I largely agree with Jeff Miron, the director of economic studies at the libertarian Cato Institute, when he writes at Vox that "shutdowns distract from the serious conversations that need to be had about fiscal reform and the size of government."

That's particularly true of this shutdown, which is happening mostly because President Trump is demanding roughly $5 billion for a border wall (sorry, "steel barrier"). The border wall is a pointless boondoggle, premised on lies, that Trump wants mainly to fulfill an insipid campaign promise. The showdown over the wall is a partisan food fight, not a way of drawing attention to the problems with a government that is too expensive and too powerful.

Yes, some libertarians might appreciate shutdowns as form of political theater, but if your goal is to actually reduce the size of government, mere theatrics won't get you very far. As Miron writes, "libertarians will only succeed in reducing the size of government when they convince non-libertarians that smaller government is better. A government shutdown does little to nothing to change minds." If anything, the opposite is true. A shutdown comes across as chaotic, and creates the opportunity for someone like Krugman to declare that this haphazard, partial government closure is a demonstration of an ideal libertarian government.

The government should be smaller on a permanent basis, ideally with public buy-in and plenty of time for everyone to prepare. A shutdown that hijacks the federal government's broken budget process so the president can make a futile attempt to fulfill a foolish and wasteful campaign promise is little more than a cheap political stunt, not a substantive libertarian victory.

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290 responses to “Sorry, Paul Krugman, the Government Shutdown Is No Great Libertarian Experiment

  1. >>>Isn’t this exactly what libertarians want?

    I am singularly enjoying it. Air smells fresher.

    1. Sad to say, though, the parts of Government Almighty that are authorized to shoot you, are NOT being shut down!

      Some of my dearest friends have been shot to death for blowing on cheap plastic flutes, w/o the blessings of The Collective Hive, mind you! So my self-chosen pubic duties call on me yet again…

      To find precise details on what NOT to do, to avoid the flute police, please see http://www.churchofsqrls.com/DONT_DO_THIS/ ? This has been a pubic service, courtesy of the Church of SQRLS!

    2. I’m more optimistic than Suderman. Democrats are choosing to shut down government over an expense that amounts to less than 0.1% of the yearly budget. Given promises from GOP politicians (i.e., the lying RINOs) that they intend to shrink government, and that the Democrats will shut down government for so little, takes away the excuse RINOs use to not use a shutdown to significantly cut government spending.

      I hope this shutdown lasts months, and some politicians start saying we should not pay federal workers for work not done. It’s not fair to taxpayers.

  2. Shutdowns are a libertarian victory. I am libertarian and I am thrilled. First of all because they show we don’t need the government. We won’t get crime and terrorist attacks as the statists always threaten. No one will die from food poisoning. Sure prison guards won’t get paid, but at least this will make people think twice before going into that profession. Secondly, if the border wall is dumped, then that would be a huge libertarian victory for small government. I think it’s great that the dems have to act like libertarians here. It must irk them to no end, which is why Krugman has to satirize the situation. It’s all good. Stay strong my people – and rejoice!

    1. I just got an email today from a major trail map provider with tips on how to care for the parks. The gist was, “without the government everything will be the same, but we need to be decent people.”

      There was an implication (at least to me) that all the government really adds to the National parks is the possibility for people to be self-absorbed scumbags. If that actually resonates with anyone, that’s a positive message.

      1. In other words, to pay money so progtards can go the parks, and be themselves.

      2. Tragedy of the commons.

        1. Goobers are goobering again. From ignorance. As always! Or from brainwashing. Perhaps both.

          Common knowledge to the informed government costs MORE during a shutdown DUH.

          I gave proof. Compare that to any bellowing, screeching and/or WHINING from Trump’s cult of snowflakes.
          The only good news is that Trump is now committing suicide … after TURNING DOWN HIS OWN DEAL of 25 MILLION for a border, in return for Dreamers ,… because Limbaugh OWNS Trump. ALL the bipartisan work now combines DACA with a lot less than $25 million — so Trump cannot avoid losing again, also bigly.

          1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano late-night drunk-posting.

            1. That’s sober Hihn.

              1. That’s why I link PROOF..

                Goobers never check the proof — just attack at will.
                .
                But everyone else can see for themselves that Red Rock and BigT are psychos.
                For any who may still NEED proof! (sneer)

                1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano’s gonna put my name on his Enemies List again.

                  1. That’s why I link PROOF..
                    Goobers prove NOTHING ….. just attack with infantile name-calling … as conservatives have always done.
                    But everyone else can see for themselves that Red Rock and BigT are psychos.
                    For any who may still NEED proof! (sneer)

                    his Enemies List

                    How many times are you listed as a stalking bully and proven a psycho liar?

                    1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano’s pretends he doesn’t have an Enemies List.

    2. insha’allah

      Or is it Im yertzeh hashem

      Same thing right Dajjal?

  3. The essential workers that do show up are unenthusiastic about doing their jobs, because they are not getting paid. A few days ago someone spray painted, “Hackensack, NJ Gay Pride,” followed by a Star of David on the mausoleum in Harlem that contains General Grant’s Tomb, and the federal security guard just stared blankly as the guy waved to him, said, “Hi,” and calmly walked away.

    1. General Grant’s Tomb, you say?

      Who in the blue blazes is buried in General Grant’s Tomb, for Yahweh’s sake?

      1. Julia Grant (no, really).

        1. OK, man, winner-winner, chicken dinner!!!

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grant‘s_Tomb

            1. Stuff and stuff is stuffy, and stuff; I give up! Out-take from the Wiki-God of All Knowledge…

              Grant’s Tomb, formally known as General Grant National Memorial, is the final resting place of Ulysses S. Grant (1822?1885), the 18th President of the United States, and his wife, Julia Dent Grant (1826?1902). Completed in 1897, the tomb is located in Riverside Park in the Morningside Heights neighborhood of Upper Manhattan in New York City, across Riverside Drive from Riverside Church. It was placed under the management of the National Park Service in 1958.

              1. When I die, I want to be buried in a giant mausoleum in the ‘hood.

                1. I want to be cremated and used to grow weed.

                  1. I want to be put on public transportation and see how many years it takes for someone to notice I’m dead.

              2. They say that Grant rises from his tomb after dusk to slake his unholy thirst on the gangbangers.

    2. There is irony in this. Grant signed the Comstock Laws. These 1873 usurpations used the postal monopoly to ban ALL birth control and censor all information regarding same–with gold bullion fines heavy enough to crush your foot and 10-year terms on a chain gang. The New York Society for the Suppression of Vice used it to ban and burn books its members deemed too candid. Vestiges of these laws still coerced women in 1932, and into the 1960s with prison terms for advising married couples about birth control. Then came the LP plank the Court transcribed into Roe v Wade…

      1. Do you just come here to randomly gibber? I would love to,see a ban on abortion just to piss you off. Baby murder aficionado that you are.

        1. Last of the Shitheads FAILS on “unalienable rights”

          Unalienable rights are absolute … BY DEFINITION. (Am I going too fast for goobers).

          Life is only ONE such right. Others include a package called liberty, another package called pursuit of happiness … plus all the many rights never enumerated in the 9th Amendment.

          If you want to see a goober’s brain EXPLODE. ask them how THEY would resolved a conflict between two right, both of which are absolute.

          The REALLY stoopid ones sneer, then whine, that no such conflicts are possible … stupid because their own abortion babbling is THE most obvious conflict! “But,” they say (in redneck), “if I refuse to see it, the entire universe disappears!”

          They’re serious.
          And they vote

          1. If you want to see a Dumbfuck Hihnsano’s empty skull EXPLODE, ask him how the right to life and the right to keep and bear arms are in conflict.

            1. Here’s proof AGAIN, Guntard. STILL with sources. STILL awaiting your proof. (snort)

              Inconvenient facts (fully documented) (ignore the screeching guntards)

              Intentional Homicide Rates (Latest available, UN) Per 100,000 population.
              5.3 United States
              3.0 Europe and Asia (each)
              1.7 Canada
              0.9 UK

              Have you ever considered that you MIGHT be manipulated? Even a little? How would you even know, deep in a tribal cave?

              FACT: England’s 2nd gun control (1996) saw ONE mass shooting in 22 years
              Adjust for population (5:1) and they had 5 shootings in 22 years … We had 8 in 6 weeks. Do the math.
              Mass Shootings Per year
              UK = 0.2 per year
              US = 69.3 per year = 3,100% higher mass shootings
              Are those YOUR values on “sanctity of life?” (snort)

              Cont’d

              1. Inconvenient questions:

                1) if teachers are thought to be armed, who will be shot first? (DOUBLE-DUH

                2) MIGHT we have so many ARMED bad guys … BECAUSE our citizenry is so highly armed? Might it work like the nuclear arms race did?

                3) In Britain, Ireland, Norway, Iceland and New Zealand, officers are unarmed when they are on patrol. WHY? And HOW?

                4) What happens when two absolute rights are in conflict? Which prevails? Who decides? And why?

                NOT advocating gun grabs, just want HONEST debate ? the difference between libertarians and the bellowing blowhards of the Authoritarian Right.

                “shall not be infringed” They beat their chests and bellow ? nonsense, evasions and bullshit. ? PROVES how they’ve become witless tools of the political elites. The ISSUE is WHICH ARMS shall not be infringed. Why is this rocket science to these people?

                Left – Right = Zero
                Libertarians: speaking Truth to Power, both left and right, for over 50 years.
                Listen now to their death rattle, amidst the shrieking and bellowing.

                1. Hihnfection

                  1. (Boldface in defense of an infantile, stalking bully)

                    Hihnfection

                    Cowardly stalker LOSES on the issue … WHINES with infantile name-calling.
                    (Not ALL right-wingers are such whiney losers)

                    BE A MAN
                    IF YOU CAN

                    P.S, I tracked him down. Hihn’s name is pronounced “Hine” — so you goobers fucked up THAT childishness TOO!

                    P.P.S. I Want This Cap!

                    SINGALONG: “another one bites … another one bites … another one bites THE DUST!”

              2. Even more inconvenient facts:

                Homicide rates per 100,000 (NCHS)
                0 North Dakota
                0 Wyoming
                0 Maine
                0 Vermont
                0 New Hampshire

                And all of these have gun ownership rates above the US average.

                So fuck off.

                1. (boldface in defense of mindless aggression, by a sniveling, cowardly LIAR)

                  COWARDLY DIVERSION … PLUS BULLSHIT.
                  Guntards NEVER link to proof, and ALWAYS change the subject to IRRELEVANCE when they’ve been CRUSHED with DOCUMENTED proof!

                  So fuck off.

                  (snort)
                  Where do I send your trophy. “WHINER of the week?”

                  SHOW OF HANDS. ANY OTHER BRAYING JACKASSES SAYS THERE ARE ZERO HOMICIDES IN THOSE FIVE STATES …. ROFLMAO ….. AND willing to make a public fool of yourself (like Earth Skeptic did)?

                  You are WAY above your class on this, Chump

                  1. HARD PROOF! Earth Skeptic a lying psycho guntard.
                    Actual homicide rates per 100,000 in his 5 states. (FBI data) The rates vary per year, so here’s the range, 2000-2017

                    North Dakota 0.6 – 3.0
                    Wyoming 1.4 – 2.7
                    Maine 1.3 – 1.8
                    Vermont 1.1 – 2.2
                    New Hampshire 0.9 – 1.8

                    Do ANY of those look like zero to YOU?
                    NEVER trust goobers. On the right OR left.

                    1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano still assmad that he can’t get his gun ban.

                    2. Dumbfuck Hihnsano still doesn’t know how the right to bear arms and the right to life conflict.

                    3. One more time for psychos. PROOF vs infantile name-calling

                      Inconvenient facts (fully documented) (ignore the screeching guntards)

                      Intentional Homicide Rates (Latest available, UN) Per 100,000 population.
                      5.3 United States
                      3.0 Europe and Asia (each)
                      1.7 Canada
                      0.9 UK

                      Have you ever considered that you MIGHT be manipulated? Even a little? How would you even know, deep in a tribal cave?

                      FACT: England’s 2nd gun control (1996) saw ONE mass shooting in 22 years
                      Adjust for population (5:1) and they had 5 shootings in 22 years … We had 8 in 6 weeks. Do the math.

                      Mass Shootings Per year
                      UK = 0.2 per year
                      US = 69.3 per year = 3,100% higher mass shootings

                      Are those YOUR values on “sanctity of life?”

                    4. Loser FAILS challenge. MORE Cowardly evasion.

                      Inconvenient questions:

                      1) if teachers are thought to be armed, who will be shot first? (DOUBLE-DUH)

                      2) MIGHT we have so many ARMED bad guys … BECAUSE our citizenry is so highly armed? Might it work like the nuclear arms race did?

                      3) In Britain, Ireland, Norway, Iceland and New Zealand, officers are unarmed when they are on patrol. WHY? And HOW?

                      4) What happens when two absolute rights are in conflict? Which prevails? Who decides? And why?

                      NOT advocating gun grabs, just want HONEST debate ? the difference between libertarians and the bellowing blowhards of the Authoritarian Right.

                      “shall not be infringed” they beat their chests and bellow ? nonsense, evasions and bullshit. ? PROVES how they’ve become witless tools of the political elites. The ISSUE is WHICH ARMS shall not be infringed. Why is this rocket science to these people?

                      Left – Right = Zero
                      Libertarians: speaking Truth to Power, both left and right, for over 50 years,

                    5. Dumbfuck Hihnsano’s pretends he didn’t call for a gun ban.

            2. “If you want to see a Dumbfuck Hihnsano’s empty skull EXPLODE, ask him how the right to life and the right to keep and bear arms are in conflict.”

              C’mon man. Thats just cheating.

      2. Grant isn’t known for how great his presidency was.

    3. I have no sympathy for suffering democrats that normally live very well on the backs of,the rest of us.

      1. (snort) YOU suck off Bill Gates and Warren Buffet.

  4. “The border wall is a pointless boondoggle, premised on lies, that Trump wants mainly to fulfill an insipid campaign promise.”

    Goddam I wish the Reason writers would stop this bullshit. The wall is being SOLD by way of lies, or extreme exaggerations, whichever you prefer, but since our political elite are incapable of having coherent, reasonable conversations (or they think we’re incapable of understanding them), EVERY political idea is sold with lies or extreme exaggerations. “If Kavanaugh is confirmed people will LITERALLY DIE”. “You can keep your doctor”. “Obamacare is socialized medicine”. It’s what they do.

    A lot of people cross our southern border illegally, and a wall will make it more difficult to do so and will probably decrease the amount of people that can cross. That’s the simple premise. Whether you’re for it or against it, that’s the premise. And once everybody admits the premise, it becomes a cost/benefit argument.

    So stop the bullshit. And, oh, fuck Krugman. Liberty is an anathema to assholes like Krugman.

    1. Suderman is a NeverTrumper GOPer.

      1. Yeah. He ruins the Reason podcasts fairly regularly.

    2. Yeah, well, the guys who write the checks said thanks for your advice, but they’d prefer to continue with the Trump-bashing and cheap labor.

      1. That about covers it.

    3. I wish the Reason writers would stop this bullshit.

      It’s Sudermen, he ain’t never gonna stop the bullshit, and you can’t make him if you tried.

      1. Because you’re too fucking stupid to,

        1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano knows all about being fucking stupid.

          1. I don’t know who Hihnsano is, stalking coward …. but I kicked your pathetic ass there (this page)
            And again here!

            1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano links to his idiocy again, still assmad that I made him my bitch on gun control.

    4. “Whether you’re for it or against it, that’s the premise. And once everybody admits the premise, it becomes a cost/benefit argument.”

      Fair enough. Since a 100% effective border barrier would allegedly reduce the influx of illegal aliens by only about a third (the other two thirds allegedly due to overstaying their visas) the barrier attacks the smaller of the two major sub-categories of illegals, which is contrary to any scheme that would attempt an attack the problem based on efficient prioritization. That is, tracking and deporting the visa over-stays may generally be more cost-effective. I believe one colloquial term for such inverted prioritization is “boondoggle”. Of course if the barrier is less than 100% effective, then at some effectiveness rate it might also be tagged “pointless”.

      1. Of course, one needs to look at the difference between people who were granted visas for education and employment vs the illiterate peasants traipsing across the border. Ie, college kids who overstay are not the same as welfare cases waiting to happen.

      2. So…….. you say the border wall works against the intended interlopers? Awesome.

        We can multitask for the VISA abusers. Hunt them down and round them up.

        1. Read it again, retard.

          1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano sockpuppets like the useless retard that he is.

      3. @ Jim – I’m not sure I have a strong position. I’ve lived in Texas for so long and seen so much angst about this stuff that I’m mildly skeptical that it’ll work as effectively as proponents suggest it will. The economic self-interest that drives most of the illegals is strong enough to induce them to be terribly persistent. So I’m inclined to think the wall is probably not money well spent, but it’s only a mild inclination.

        I just wish our fucking political leadership could act like serious adults for once in our lifetime. They seem to prefer to imitate monkeys flinging shit at each other, unfortunately.

        1. Trump publicly humiliated again! Proves himself wrong again!!!

          President Trump Went to a Border Town to Prove They Need a Wall. Residents Say Otherwise.

          McAllen Mayor Jim Darling, who is not affiliated with a political party, tells TIME that even if it was not Trump’s intention, the roundtable appeared to make the case for increased funding at legal ports of entry instead of the wall. … “I understand he’s trying to make a point, I’m a little theatrical myself, most politicians are. I understand why someone would say ‘Okay, those were all confiscated at the point of entry, so what’s that gotta do with people crossing the river?'”

          Meanwhile, Julie Hillrichs, spokeswoman for the Texas Border Coalition, a group of border mayors (including Darling), county judges and border communities focused on issues that impact border quality of life for more than 2.5 million people, tells TIME the Coalition believes the real way to increase security at the border would not be a wall, but increased investment in the legal ports of entry that already exist in their area.

          “We have never supported the wall,” Hillrichs says. “The Border Coalition has consistently over the years stated we believe the wall is a wasted investment.”

          Another MAJOR defeat.
          Read the whole piece to see how totally he screwed up, proving the WRONG point!!

          1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano having another bold-text shitfit.

            1. Boldface is for humiliating goobers like you. (like here)
              A WHINY COWARD who LOSES on the issue, but babbles irrelevancies.

              Did I PROVE he fucked up? And now you?

              Trump publicly humiliated again! Proves himself wrong again!!!
              Another MAJOR defeat.
              Read the whole piece to see how totally Trump screwed up!!

              Will he throw ANOTHER hissy fit?

              (I don’t know who Hihnsano is, so how does he create so much INTENSE rage, in so many goobers?)

              1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano throwing another bitchfit.

                Shriek some more for me, bitch.

      4. People overstaying their visas ipso facto are known. They entered the country though the front door and had a passport of which, I’ll suspect, a complete image is stored by La Migra, and have passed the minor scrutiny of any visitor on their way to see the sights or conduct some business.

        I’m going to make a wild guess that not many heavily tattooed MS-13 gangbangers have been let in on tourist visas after disembarking at O’Hare.

        1. President asshole made a STUPID campaign chant that he IGNORED for two years of TOTAL GOP control … until the pussy got his ass whupped by Limbaugh, Coulter, Ingraham and other bloviators.

          Trumptards are too brainwashed to notice there was NO “border crisis” until AFTER Trump got had sorry ass handed to him in last year’s election.

      5. People overstaying their visas ipso facto are known. They entered the country though the front door and had a passport of which, I’ll suspect, a complete image is stored by La Migra, and have passed the minor scrutiny of any visitor on their way to see the sights or conduct some business.

        I’m going to make a wild guess that not many heavily tattooed MS-13 gangbangers have been let in on tourist visas after disembarking at O’Hare.

    5. Given recent mutilations of our platform, the LP’s objections are now as good a selling point for a wall as the Queens Puerto Rican’s–as far as hardcore Trumpistas are concerned. She at least is entertaining. The LP, however, is again reduced to shame as it was in 1990.

    6. They’ve got freeway interchanges in Dallas that cost more than the wall.

      1. More than 5 billion maybe. But with the way the Feds spend money the 5 billion Trump wants for the wall will probably get us about 30 miles.

    7. Paulie Krugnuts is an avowed enemy of freedom, and also literally fucking retarded.

      1. Says a retard on the opposing team. (Is that the best he’s got — baby talk?)
        Left – right = Zero.

          1. MORE baby talk by the conservatard!!!

            MORE proof: Left – Right = Zero

            Two competing tribes of brainwashed goobers, less than 40% of Americans combined, and still shrinking toward extinction

            But they bellow and bluster a lot, as triggered snowflakes.
            The ONLY way they can feel manly.
            Pity them.

            1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano’s IQ = Zero

            2. What? No, I meant it. You need help. I can point you toward resources if needed. Not even trolling.

  5. Huh. Krugman said something in bad faith? Weird.

    1. Amazing how easy it is lose hard-earned credibility. Even leftists don’t take him seriously.

      1. And I went back and reread the article and it was Paul Krugman. Not some other Krugman. Crazy to think that he would argue in bad faith.

      2. Yes, it really is easy to throw away hard-earned credibility.

      3. Even leftists don’t take him seriously.

        Even wingers can be as fucking psycho as Krugman

    2. The same Paul Krugman who thinks a 4 trillion dollar federal budget is out of hand because of too much austerity?

      1. The same CE who DEFENDS Trump being the ABSOLUTE worst President on the debt EVER? Trump’s REPUBLICAN New Deal!

        Left – Right = Zero

  6. Photo caption:
    “So I lifted his scrotum, and there it was, the missing babysitting coupon, stuck to his perineum. And I was able to slosh the coupon through the babysitting sluices, revitalizing the economic juices.”

  7. Nobelworthy hot take, if you ask me.

  8. So achieving a real libertarian society would require a sort of democratic and institutional scaffolding to make sure the system all comes down in an orderly fashion without pissing too many people off. Step 1: convince the oldies to give up their Medicare. A small task, but a good signifier of how easy or difficult this will be. Go!

    1. “So you’ll have to pay for your medical treatment out of pocket again, BUT because you’ll now have a larger range of doctors, you can price-shop for the most affordable. You’ll even be able to guilt-trip your kids into paying for the expenses up front!”

      1. And unicorns will fart rainbows.

        I can make up some nonsense utopia with absolutely no evidence supporting it too.

        1. Tony, when I did t see you around here for awhile, I thought you might have seen the light and drank that Drano.

          Oh well.

          1. ‘Didn’t’

        2. Tony|1.11.19 @ 5:24PM|#
          “I can make up some nonsense utopia with absolutely no evidence supporting it too.”

          Sure you can, shitbag You often do; claiming that your theft of my skills won’t hurt anything.
          Maybe you ought to, well, READ something before you claim what you see here is nonsense. But as a fucking lefty shitbag, that’s entire too much like work; mommy didn’t do it for you, did she?
          BTW, I found your photo:

          So Morales was ‘inaugurated’ yesterday, ushering in more grief for Venezuelans, some of which they so richly deserve, but not all.
          I get a bunch of links as a result, and it’s interesting to find the definitive image of the evil in which that country is awash. Well, here’s a good one:
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-0Zy7yqAUw
          34:20
          Nope, not a Stalin figure or a one of the hired torturers; it’s that millennial asshole with the spray can. He and his ilk are firm believers that they are ‘owed’ something by those who work to produce those things. He is willing to use guns to take it away from them or support the government to do it for him.
          HE is the evil which makes such hell-holes like Venezuela and Cuba possible.

        3. “YOU GUYS CANT COME UP WITH ANY ARGUMENTS!”
          “Here’s an argument”
          “YOU GUYS CANT COME UP WITH ANY ARGUMENTS THAT WILL GIVE PEOPLE FREE SHIT!”

          Tony’s hicklib stupidity rears its head again. Must be all the semen he swallowed from his cousins.

          1. Liberals borrow trillions for free shit
            Conservatives and (some) libertarians borrow trillions for free tax cuts.

            1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano’s pretends that a tax cut is borrowing.

      2. No no no. The cost of medical care is in no way affected by the government helping to limit the supply of medical professionals or forcing everyone into a type of insurance that covers everything under the sun.

        Also, is it any surprise that Tony is such a piece of shit human that he assumes the rest of the country would behave as horribly as he would if the government wasn’t telling him not to?

        1. Designate is as stupid as progressives on Medicare.

          Too STUPID to know
          1) Medicare is subsidized by over $200 billion from private insurers. (He doesn’t even know HOW and WHY!)

          2) Medicare is also subsidized by over $300 billion — over 20% of the entire personal income tax — FROM HIS OWN BUSH2 REPUBLICANS! (How they “paid for” Medicare Prescriptions.)

          3) Bush2 is thus the ONLY President EVER … to keep adding hundreds of billions to debt … every year … FOREVER.

          4) The Medicare Trust Fund balance is $290 billion, LESS than CURRENT deficits paid from INCOME TAXES instead of the Trust Fund …. bailed out by REPUBLICANS!

          5) Now add the Bush tax cuts — 85% to taxpayers under $250,000 income, who were paying only 46% of the tax … ad Republicans spent TRILLIONS of dollars to buy middle-class votes … and lost the White House and both houses of congress, How fucking stupid is THAT?

          DesigNate, when IGNORANT of the facts … launches a STUPID tribal assault on the left … exactly like ignorant goobers ON the left, who also babble mindlessly..

          The goobers would be funny, if not so severe a threat to the MAJORITY of us who reject BOTH tribes as manipulated losers.

          1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano’s wants the government to keep their hands off his Medicare.

        2. Also, is it any surprise that Tony is such a piece of shit human that he assumes the rest of the country would behave as horribly as he would if the government wasn’t telling him not to?

          In hist defense, I’d say it’s a mixture of the government preventing him from acting like a shitbag and preventing private citizens from correcting him appropriately when he acts like a shitbag.

      3. except old people vote.
        and live in FLorida, a swing state.

        1. Any of YOU retards have anything more than WHINING about Medicare?
          Libertarians have NOTHING. And we know conservatards are even dumber — screech and whine, but NEVER any solutions.

          1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano has nothing, either.

            1. Lose AGAIN, CHUMP It’s EASY if one knows what the fuck they’re talking about (smirk)
              WE LIBERTARIANS CALL IT “SKIN IN THE GAME!” MANY possibilities. Pay attention, goober

              GIVE seniors a percentage of any savings they get from shopping around.
              OPTIONAL — MEDICARE Savings Accounts would allow seniors to save 30-50% with providers who offer huge discounts for cash.

              We already do local competitive bidding on medical EQUIPMENT. Do the same for a dozen or so PROCEDURES where local prices can vary as much as 500% or more. This will likely also force prices down in the private market.

              For anyone who signs a Living Will, while still relatively healthy, give $25,000 cash to their estate at death — OR allow them to change their mind at the end, and their heirs lose the 25 grand. (We’re the ONLY country that spends $250,000 or more for as little as 6 months more life. Also half of ALL our healthcare spending is in the final 18 months of life)

              There’s more, And I have AGAIN exposed you as a foul-mouth asshole THUG.
              (sneer)

              1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano’s been losing his whole life.

                1. Just made a TOTAL ass out of you …. CALLED OUT your stupid attack … PROVEN loser

                2. Just made a TOTAL ass out of you …. CALLED OUT your stupid attack … PROVEN loser

                3. Just made a TOTAL ass out of you …. CALLED OUT your stupid attack … PROVEN loser

                  1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano stroke-posts his bitchy crying.

    2. That’s like saying “so, achieving a better user experience would require all these old codgers to give up their flip phones and get a smart phone.”

    3. Hi Krugscum!!

      You just can’t resist showing up in a piece that talks about you by name, can you?

    4. Easier than you think.

      If govt pays for medical, govt must deliver it too. 20% of hospitals are govt-owned (mostly municipal, state university, and VA). Deem those ‘in-network’ where Medicare pays everything – they are fully open to Medicare/aid patients – govt runs everything – and Medicare pays nothing for private sector care. Recipients are of course free to go anywhere else but they pay for it. Some hospitals may sell themselves to govt. But basically that system and whatever it becomes remains an entirely political thang (capacity, doctor hiring/training, management boards, rationing, etc) Comparable to NHS/UK model (or Kaiser – or technically even Mayo but I’m 100% certain none of it will really be Mayo caliber) really – and kind of comparable to how schools used to be run before district consolidation. No debt may be issued for anything beyond local facilities (which could like muni bonds or schools in the old days be secured by local prop taxes) – all operating costs must be paid for with current taxes.

      2. A multi-year medical savings system akin to Singapore for younger. That would have three elements (in Sing they are called Medisave, Medishield, Medifund) and insurance companies or local hospital/provider networks would offer plans to public. With legislation to create interstate compact for reinsurance, pooling, case mgmt, and tertiary referral to those providers.

      1. VA, no thanks. Med savings accounts, ok. But drop the intense government micromanaging.

      2. Do you have anything that a high-school, student cannot disprove?
        Anything that’s not babbling impossibly to enact?
        Anything more than Ivory Tower masturbating?

        1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano talking to himself in the mirror.

          1. Trash-mouth bully FAILS on the issue AGAIN!

            Was called out as a TOTAL fool just above.

            NO CHALLENGE (smirk)

            1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano links to his own idiocy.

              1. (boldface in response to repeated assaults by a PROVEN psycho stalker

                Trash-mouth bully FAILS on the issue AGAIN!
                Was called out as a TOTAL fool Just above.
                NO CHALLENGE (smirk)

                Dumbfuck Hihnsano links to his own idiocy

                (snort) The link PROVES you a psycho liar … and one sick fuck. … stalking me down the page, consumed by raging hatred.
                Another pathetic conservatard.

                1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano links to his lying loser shitposts again.

    5. It’s like you didn’t even read your own premise.

      You convince elderly to gradually transition off of taxed pay-as-you-go-but-only-medicine to opt-in health investment accounts your children can inherit if you decide, with a fallback to Medicaid for the poor elderly.

      At the point, the only next question is: why do you want to only be able to spend this on medicine?

      1. HOW, goober. (smirk)

    6. They’ll want to give it up when they see how much better a free market in healthcare is.

      1. Tell us how much better, chump.

          1. You also flunked NAP.

            1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano flunked success at life.

              1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano flunked success at life.

                By making a TOTAL fool of you just above???

                Thus, now here! As you AGAIN fail at being a stalking bully.
                (snort)

                1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano links to his own idiocy.
                  (snarf)

            2. You also flunked NAP.

              This from the self-proclaimed libertarian who thinks that a majority vote for aggressive force justifies the use of aggressive force. Because obviously, telling a majority group that they aren’t allowed to enact their preference for aggression is itself a form of aggression against them.

    7. BTW step 1 is prohibit the government from initiating force.

      1. Relevance? Or memorized goober slogans?

        1. Libertarianism is the idea that the government must be prohibited from initiating force.

          1. FAILS to show relevance here. And WRONG anywhere. (You’re no libertarian. I’ve been one from the very beginning)

            “Governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed.”
            That’s Jefferson and our Founders. Also Ayn Rand.
            Mt assumption is correct. Thanks.

            1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano brags about his non-existent libertarian bonafides.

              1. Do YOU fuckup what NAP means also? (LOL)

                1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano fucks up his own shitposts. (LOL)

                  1. Coward REFUSES challenge on NAP. (smirk)

                    1. What does Scalia’s Heller decision say about the NAP? I mean since you just pretty much make up what it states, Im sure that thats in there too.

                    2. Dumbfuck Hihnsano REFUSES to stop shitting pants.
                      (Chortle)

    8. Difficulty inherent in convincing bank robbers to voluntarily give up their loot is hardly a solid argument in defense of legal bank robbery.

      1. I had forgotten how daffy your “arguments” are. 🙁

  9. Paul Krugman might misunderstand some aspects of libertarian thought. But remember he correctly predicted Drumpf’s election would cause a global recession with no end in sight. Like most NYTimes writers, he’s absolutely worth reading.

    1. Like most NYTimes writers, he’s absolutely worth reading.
      Two thumbs up

    2. And do the opposite.

  10. Strange article by Reason. Some significant portion of government is shut down and everyone is going about their daily lives, getting fed, getting to work, enjoying their lives. In fact from a public perception standpoint it helps that most people think that most of government is shut down, even though that’s not the case. I don’t know what Reason is reading but I haven’t read any story about how the shutdown is causing a major hardship. That is a libertarian moment. All of us reading this page should step out of their bubble for a moment. Probably 50% of the people in this country believe that the government is why the grocery stores stay filled and the lights stay on. They are now seeing very explicitly that life goes on fine without the government and that it’s really the local grocery store or power company that services them.

    1. Government Almighty provides the very oxygen we breathe, and the gravity which holds us down to the Earth.

      Or at least, so I have been told…

    2. Federal employees are starting to feel the pinch. I have no sympathy for them. They never share in the pain that their progressive democrat voting causes. So they deserve some suffering.

      1. NPR this morning had a tear-jerker of a story, a woman working for the BLM in AZ whose finances are so stretched she’s resorted to GoFundMe so she could give her son lunch money and pay her mortgage.

        At this time her paycheck has been delayed what, a day or two? And no one is expecting any federal employee to lose a penny whether they were “essential” or not?

        1. At this time her paycheck has been delayed what, a day or two?

          PAY ATTENTION.
          STOP MAKING AN ASS OF YOURSELF IN PUBLIC
          EVEN TRUMP SAYS YOU’RE FULL OF SHIT!

    3. True dat! The Kleptocracy can’t be manacled long enough to suit me. Pity the prohibitionists and First Responder ? dog-shooters are still loose though.

    4. Can’t they just put the SS checks and the Medicare reimbursements on AI autopilot and shut down the rest forever?

      1. That takes a vote in Congress, not the ranting of some anti-gummint wacko.

        1. So… yes!

    5. “I don’t know what Reason is reading but I haven’t read any story about how the shutdown is causing a major hardship. That is a libertarian moment.”

      What?? You missed that traffic jam in a Harlem that’s backed up to Jackson Heaghts??

    6. everyone is going about their daily lives,

      You fucked it all at the very beginning.
      Also ignorant that gummint spends MORE during a shutdown.
      Typical Trumpster.

  11. Walls don’t work!

    Has to be the dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever heard.

    I’m not sure why so many people insist on showing their ass with that tripe.

    1. There’s a reason people stopped building castles (we invented stuff that could breach walls). And even when they did build castles, walls didn’t work that great. And now it’s a thousand years later and wall technology has not improved all that much.

      1. You see a lot of guatemalans dragging trebuchets around, Tony?

        1. Guatemalans can dig tunnels under the walls, they can over-stay their visas, they can go by boat or by air, they can bribe the border guards, they can be good-looking models or porn stars and fuck the POTUS or the POTUS-to-be, and on and on…

          To fight back against this, we need to up our game!

          Anyone recall the Iran-Iraq wars of the 1980s? Lots of it was fought in low-laying salt-water marshes. Very tough terrain for Iraqi military vehicles… And it is expensive to bring in bunches of rocks or logs to raise up the mud to make roads. But there were BUTTLOADS of Iranian corpses just laying around for free! So the Iraqis just limed ’em up (for rot-proofing), and lined ’em up and laid ’em down to make roads! Lime ’em up, line ’em up, lay ’em down!

          So we can soon expect Der TrumpfenFuhrer to steal a page from the Iran-Iraq war! The Mexicans won’t pay for His Walls?!? Make raids on Mexican peasant villages, round up conscript wall-building labor, and build the wall out of the limed-up corpses of illegal sub-humans!!! (Or at least the top-rim of the wall, for max psychological intimidation). For every American soldier killed in the effort, there will be reprisal shootings of 200 more illegal un-Americans!

          Don’t say no one warned you of what is coming! Trump wants to “win” at any costs!

          1. OBL has competition!!

      2. Also, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Taking a well defended castle/city/keep took a lot of time and men. And if you don’t think we have better materials than whatever rock is laying around, well, again, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

        1. Small, defensible walls work just fine.

          Large walls with giant swaths undefended don’t work as well. See: Hadrian’s Wall and Great Wall of China.

          (Not that I necessarily want them to build the damn thing.)

          1. And the drones, sensors, etc., are to summon defenders to the point of incursion, so that the entire length doesn’t need the same manpower to defend as those earlier walls.

      3. “wall technology has not improved all that much.”

        Yes Tony, it has. You stupid bitch. Maybe if you spent less time to fuck young boys, you might learn something. The wall systems proposed and are high tech. Not some tenth century caricature like you imagine in your dull little pea brain.

        Now go drink your Drano.

      4. Good fences make good neighbors.

      5. “…dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever heard.”

        Tony: “Hold my beer.”

    2. Yeah, some wit wrote a column the other day calling walls medieval, and how many archers, etc, were going to be needed. Now every progtard on the internet is talking about how walls are obsolete. They also wore hats in medieval times, I suppose hats no longer keep your head warm or the sun out of your eyes, because, you know, they used hats in medieval Europe.

    3. Radar is obsolete. It’s WWII technology, easily circumvented by radar detectors. Therefore, we shouldn’t even try to enforce the speed limit (the apparent position of every city in the denver- metro area).

      1. It’s not hard to enforce the speed limit when traffic and the population’s aversion to building and fixing roads keeps everyone moving at a nice, safe 25 miles per hour.

    4. because tunnels? and boats? and ladders? and helicopters?

    5. Walls don’t work! Has to be the dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever heard.

      (smirk)

      Trump publicly humiliated again!

      President Trump Went to a Border Town to Prove They Need a Wall. Residents Say Otherwise.

      McAllen Mayor Jim Darling … tells TIME that even if it was not Trump’s intention, the roundtable appeared to make the case for increased funding at legal ports of entry instead of the wall. … “I understand he’s trying to make a point, I’m a little theatrical myself, most politicians are. I understand why someone would say ‘Okay, those were all confiscated at the point of entry, so what’s that gotta do with people crossing the river?'”

      Meanwhile, Julie Hillrichs, spokeswoman for the Texas Border Coalition, a group of border mayors (including Darling), county judges and border communities focused on issues that impact border quality of life for more than 2.5 million people, tells TIME the Coalition believes the real way to increase security at the border would not be a wall, but increased investment in the legal ports of entry that already exist in their area.

      “We have never supported the wall,” Hillrichs says. “The Border Coalition has consistently over the years stated we believe the wall is a wasted investment.”

      Another MAJOR defeat.
      Read the whole piece to see how totally Trump fucked up, proving HIMSELF wrong!!

  12. There’s no government shutdown if I’m still paying taxes.

    1. Why would you overpay in taxes?

      1. One thread. Two idjits
        So far.

        1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano the biggest idiot of all.

          1. Now THREE

            1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano self-identifies.

  13. Much as I am enjoying the shut-down, even I know it is not actually reducing the size of government even temporarily. Two examples that I have noticed:

    1. the ATF is not reviewing new beer labels. You’d think that would be an improvement ? except they are still requiring new beer labels be reviewed, they just are not performing the reviews. Presumably, if you just go ahead and endanger the Republic by selling beer with an unapproved label, as soon as they are funded again, they’ll go all Waco on your ass.
    2. TSA is working without pay. If they give up, you’d think you could just do their job for them ? you know, fondle your own crotch and then steal your own iPad ? but no, they’ll just shut down airports.

    1. I have actionable intel that hot models and actresses are trying to bring contraband on airlines. I volunteer to give them all thorough searches to ensure the safety of our airline flights.

      I even have my own probe!

      1. Your probe is too tiny for the task.

        1. No one ever asked for Dumbfuck Hihnsano’s probe, which is why he’ll die alone in a pool of his own shit.

          1. Well, goober, the FDA has announced they are forced to cancel screenings and inspections for salmonella, e. coli and norovirus.
            So … once again … you Trumptards are as fucked up as Trump himself.
            But nobody will DIE from your bullshit, right? (sneer)

            1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano admits he’s a virus, links to proof.

    2. 1. the ATF is not reviewing new beer labels. You’d think that would be an improvement ? except they are still requiring new beer labels be reviewed, they just are not performing the reviews. Presumably, if you just go ahead and endanger the Republic by selling beer with an unapproved label, as soon as they are funded again, they’ll go all Waco on your ass.

      This was what I was going to comment on. Government shutdowns don’t suspend permission culture, they just suspend the granting of permission. The bureaucracy makes itself indispensable by erecting barriers to everyday activities through which only it can grant passage. It’s no different in principle than the mobster demanding protection money, or the highwayman collecting tolls on a road that isn’t his.

  14. Paul Krugman has the mental equivalency of a dried dog turd.

    1. But you’re merely infantile.

      1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano self-diagnoses.

  15. Trump’s shutdown is a temporary, political fight that won’t save any money or reduce the size of government.

    It’s “Trump’s shutdown” even if Congress can override any veto by voting 2/3 in both Houses of Congress?

    A government shutdown WILL save tens of billions of dollars. Thousands of federal employees are quitting. That means they are only owed back pay for time worked. No overtime pay for those that didnt work during the shutdown and their open positions will save taxpayers tens of billions.

    Operating costs for government vehicles, buildings, and other misc costs associated with millions of federal employees actually working will not be there. After 30 days of shutdown, the savings for taxpayers will likely be a lot higher. 30 days is 1/12 of a fiscal year worth of savings and the federal government spends billions per hour.

    Poor Suderman. This has been a tough 2 years for him since Trump has been kicking ass and not falling for Lefty threats.

    1. When the President is an R, it’s “President X’s shutdown.”

      When the President is a D, it’s “the Speaker Y’s shutdown.”

    2. lovefascism1789 loses AGAIN!

      A government shutdown WILL save tens of billions of dollars.

      Puppet dancing on a string.
      And full of crazy shit here:

      Thousands of federal employees are quitting.

      Nobody should EVER hold their breath waiting for a source from this Trumptard.

      1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano has been losing his whole life.

      2. Poor Hihn. He needed another sock handle.

        1. Those with a functioning brain will check the PROOF I linked. (SNORT)
          Pussies will whine.

          GUMMINT SPENDS MORE IN A SHUTDOWN. Check the link for why and where.

          LOVEFASCISM1789 — CALLED OUT AS A LIAR — FAILS TO PROVIDE A SOURCE (a liar or a coward?)

          (smirk)

          1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano throws his bitchfit, still assmad that he’s a lying loser.

              1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano links to his own idiocy. (snarf)

  16. If Peter wants readers to believe that shutting down much of the looter kleptocracy is not saving us a penny, more accounting and less arm-waving would be in order.

    1. Pete’s not writing for anybody who doesn’t already agree with him.

      1. Educate yourselves. Shutdowns INCREASE government spending. duh

  17. Why is it that 99% of Reason’s Hit and Run Blogs posted are articles about politics?

    What happened to your logo: Free Minds and Free Markets?

    The politicians want to control everyone and everything – as a rough generalization.

    Real life is, in large part, what happens when and where the politicians and their enforcers are not involved.

    Can’t you find some non-political topics to write about?

    1. Try Zero Hedge.
      Much less progressive than Reason, but not conservative. I’d say the perspective is generally anarcho-capitalist.
      A lot of their stuff is batshit crazy (but they gather a ton of content), the commentors are a bit… coarse (and quite often anti-semitic), and they predict the economic apocalypse… multiple times, literally. every. single. day.
      But they have a wide variety of articles from a wide variety of sources on a multitude of topics. Some interesting stuff there.
      But… maybe stay away from the comments at first

      1. I do not go much for conspiracy theories but I think Zero Hedge is Russian agitprop disguised by some reasonable financial analysis.

          1. I made one person laugh today. I have done at least one good thing 😉

      2. Zero Hedge is a crazy wacko site, for conservatards and conspiracy nuts. In the same league as Alex Jones, Breitbart, Stormfront, Slate and Daily Kos.

        Left – Right = Zero.

    2. Why is it that 99% of Reason’s Hit and Run Blogs posted are articles about politics? Why did you make a total freaking fool of yourself? IN PUBLIC?

      Just look at the goobers who “responded.”

      1. Why did you make a total freaking fool of yourself? IN PUBLIC?

        For the same reason Dumbfuck Hihnsano does it every day.

      2. I find nothing foolish in the OP.

        Of course there is nothing but foolishness in a response by the hihnsane.

        1. Just look at the goobers who “responded.”

          Umm, since the goobers INSIST …. Reason is a political publication and website!!! Has been for 50 years. Just as libertarians have been fiscally conservative and socially liberal for 50 years.

          How many MORE decades before you catch on to the obvious?

          1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano copypasting his lunacy since Reason memory-holed his other sockpuppets.

  18. Please don’t reference Krugman, ever. He is simply a non performer and full of shit!

    1. In the same league as Trump.

      1. And Dumbfuck Hihnsano.

  19. Here’s all you need to know about Krugman:

    “New York Times opinion writer and economist Paul Krugman predicted early Wednesday morning that the stock market will “never” recover from Donald Trump’s presidential victory, only to be proven spectacularly wrong in less than a day. Instead of collapsing, the Dow Jones Industrial Average surged to an all-time high shortly before the closing bell.”
    https://dailycaller.com/2016/11/09/paul-
    krugman-says-markets-will-never-
    recover-from-trump-dow-hits-record-high/

    The man has the cred of Paul Ehrlich and Michael Mann and all three of them continue to get ink for reasons unknown to those of us who prefer evidence.

    1. ANOTHER massive screwup by Sevo!
      Cites stock prices from EARLY NOVEMBER ….. when the rest of the year saw the biggest market collapse since 1939! (OMFG)

      THIS is why 95% of his “responses” are “FUCK OFF, … infantile and devoid of any substance. Because EVERY attempt at substance is a MASSIVE fuckuo like this one.

      (Guess how he “responds” to THIS!)

      1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano’s worried there won’t be enough Medicare-funded pills to stave off his growing dementia.

      2. Hihn’s memory is so shot he forgot 2016!

        1. BigT’s brain is so tiny he cannot even read. (Even makes TOTALLY STUPID comments.

          How did Hihn manage to create such massive rage … among every goober in this commentariat?
          Did he enjoy it as much as I do?

          1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano still raging that I own him like Kunta Kinte.

  20. libertarians will only succeed in reducing the size of government when they convince non-libertarians that the government initiating force is immoral and should be prohibited.

    FIFY.

    1. IceTrey, like so many others, is TOTALLY ignorant on WHAT initiation of force is. — since the average high school student is INFINITELY smarter than him …. Governments derive their JUST powers by consent of the governed. DUH.

      IceTray is WHY the libertarian label and ideology is REJECTED by 91% of … LIBERTARIANS! (per Cato)

      NEVER confuse the authoritarian mentality of an IceTrey with libertarians.

      1. NEVER confuse the addled mentality of a Dumbfuck Hihnsano with reality or intelligence.

        1. ALSO ignorant on what Initiation of Force is!
          Thugs be stoopid

          1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano the sorriest thug of all.

            1. Hihn: Ive been a Libertarian since the dawn of time, and even though I am highly antisocial, I managed to get elected as a libertarian.

              Also Hihn: 91% of the population rejects libertarians.

              Also Hihn, once more: *Never considers that these might be related, never wonders why everyone seems to hate him. Surely not because of his personality.*

      2. Ad hominem. You lose.

        1. Ice Trey ALSO fucks up what ad hominem means …. AS THE RETARD LAUNCHES ONE!

          For any other right-wing psychos … an ad hominem is an unsupported attack on a person, not on their argument.

          I included a SUPPORTING ARGUMENT … proving my point! (Boldface for retarded goobers)

          IceTrey, like so many others, is TOTALLY ignorant on WHAT initiation of force is. — since the average high school student is INFINITELY smarter than him …. Governments derive their JUST powers by consent of the governed. DUH.

          I have NOW proven you a SNIVELING COWARD … FAILING to defend your IGNORANT claim on initiation of force ,….. AS YOU COMMIT VERBAL AGGRESSION!

          The Authoritarian Right be thugs, liars and hypocrites, as just PROVEN. (smirk)

          BE A MAN. DEFEND YOUR CRAZY ASSERTION

          1. Ad hominem.

  21. Oh look. Krugman is a disingenuous misleading windbag.

    Why I never!

    Didn’t he say the economy was going to collapse once Trump took over?

  22. Joe Setyon seems ok with the experiment. https://bit.ly/2VLCqsZ

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  24. The shutdown would be a great libertarian victory if they would just ditch the back pay and permanently lay off every single government worker that was found to be inessential.

    1. And if pigs could fly, you would not look so crazy now, you and your fellow authoritarians

      1. If Dumbfuck Hihsano posted something intelligent, it would be the first time.

        1. To a snarling, bullying conservatard, “intelligence” means government WILL refuse back pay and WILL lay off every non-essential government worker. The mind of a typical Trump voter.

          Libertarians and independents are not so stupid. Even proggies aren’t THAT crazy!

          1. To a simpering, impotent Dumbfuck Hihnsano, “intelligence” means shrieking like a bitch a comparing himself to a Holocaust victim.

            Libertarians and independents are not so stupid. That’s why Dumbfuck Hihnsano isn’t one.

            Dumbfuck Hihnsano’s IQ = Zero.

            1. COWARDLY EVASION.. And the Holocaust lie — even MORE fucking stupid.

              1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano outs himself as a Nazi, believes Holocaust is a lie

              2. Dumbfuck Hihnsano cowardly evading his worthless existence, will die alone and unloved.

    2. I think Trump is trying to make them quit.

  25. Real libertarians never talk about limiting government. We talk about enriching people’s lives ? expanding opportunities ? empowerment.

    It’s not about government. It’s about people. That’s why progressives have been kicking our ass for decades – obvious to anyone who can function outside a tribal echo chamber.

    Elementary salesmanship. “Sell the sizzle. Not the steak.” Or THE most obvious, “Sell benefits, not features.” What’s in it for THEM. Progressives NEVER talk government, ALWAYS talk benefits to people, Enriching their lives.

    When I ran Sales Training for a billion-dollar division, these words were front and center in every classroom.

    You’re not there to prove your prospect wrong. You’re there to agree with your prospect. To show how your product or services will best deliver what he or she already wants.

    DUH.
    People want 90% of what government provides … 90% of which was first provided without government. How long since libertarians have promoted a better way to do … anything?

    Instead of policy solutions, we snarl and whine about the ebils of gummint. Preaching to the choir, NOT to the audience. Never HOW anything can be done better.

    You’ll see it here, IF any replies. Bellowing or whining. Imagine that same person, using the same words, to sell liberty on TV or the radio. THAT is a bigger threat to liberty than Sanders, Warren and Ortasio-Cortez, or even Trump.

    1. Trump publicly humiliated again! Proves himself wrong again!!!

      President Trump Went to a Border Town to Prove They Need a Wall. Residents Say Otherwise.

      McAllen Mayor Jim Darling, who is not affiliated with a political party, tells TIME that even if it was not Trump’s intention, the roundtable appeared to make the case for increased funding at legal ports of entry instead of the wall. … “I understand he’s trying to make a point, I’m a little theatrical myself, most politicians are. I understand why someone would say ‘Okay, those were all confiscated at the point of entry, so what’s that gotta do with people crossing the river?'”

      Meanwhile, Julie Hillrichs, spokeswoman for the Texas Border Coalition, a group of border mayors (including Darling), county judges and border communities focused on issues that impact border quality of life for more than 2.5 million people, tells TIME the Coalition believes the real way to increase security at the border would not be a wall, but increased investment in the legal ports of entry that already exist in their area.

      “We have never supported the wall,” Hillrichs says. “The Border Coalition has consistently over the years stated we believe the wall is a wasted investment.”

      Another MAJOR defeat.
      Read the whole piece to see how totally he screwed up, proving the WRONG point!!

      1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano responding to his own sockpuppets again.

        1. Goober LOSES on the facts. Again.
          Goes delusional. Again.
          (snort)

          1. Dunbfuck Hihnsano loses at life. Again.
            Got owned like Kunta Kinte. Again.
            (chortle)

    2. You are largely correct Jr. People respond to emotional and self-interest pleas. Libertarianism is not rich with those. We appeal to the cerebrum, not the brain stem. Human nature is not our friend.

      1. We

        (smirk) How would you know,

        Human nature is not our friend.

        Not you authoritarians, who SHIT on human

        We libertarians empower human nature. From your hatred-driven abuses of liberty.

    3. “People want 90% of what government provides”

      So? People want bigger dicks and slimmer thighs and hair that curls/straightens itself and to eat and drink like they see on TV (and have the bodies they see on TV) and EVERYTHING FOR FREE.

      Fuck them and anyone who claims they can meet these delusional demands.

      1. Earth Skeptic = fucking psycho liar

        LIES about what I said …

        “People want 90% of what government provides”

        Eat shit, psycho

        People want 90% of what government provides … 90% of which was first provided without government. How long since libertarians have promoted a better way to do … anything?
        Instead of policy solutions, we snarl and whine about the ebils of gummint. Preaching to the choir, NOT to the audience. Never HOW anything can be done better.

        FOR ANY OTHER RETARDED ASSHOLES
        1) 90% of it was done in a free market, before government.
        2) Other than dummies like Earth Skeptic, and the libertarian establishment …. anyone eLse too FUCKING STUPID to know how to do it better

        EVEN CRAZIER!

        So?

        (snort)

        People want bigger dicks and slimmer thighs and hair that curls/straightens itself and to eat and drink like they see on TV

        GOVERNMENT PROVIDES NONE OF THAT, YOU DROOLING IMBECILE.
        Yes, Virginia, conservatards ARE that stupid.

        Left – Right = Zero
        Be libertarian, NOT a loser.

        P.S, If you cannot do it better. shut the fuck up and sit down … YOU are the threat.

        1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano = lying soreass loser.

          1. NOW we have TWO goobers who claim government provides ” bigger dicks and slimmer thighs and hair that curls/straightens itself and to eat and drink like they see on TV”

            Trumptards be as crazy as Donald.

            1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano admits he has a tiny dick, wants a big one like the government who pays for his in-home nursing care.

        2. Trigger much?

    4. I talk about liberty and how it can be achieved simply by prohibiting the government from initiating force.

      1. But you REPEATEDLY fuck up what “initiation of force” MEANS … and REFUSE to defend your TOTALLY IGNORANT assertion.

        THIRD TIME: “Governments derive their JUST powers from the consent of the governed”
        I have Thomas Jefferson and Ayn Rand … you have NOBODY and NOTHING

        And like EVERY AUTHORITARIAN THUG — you DEMAND the power to OVERRULE “the consent of the governed.”
        And you DARE to lecture libertarians on aggression!!!!

        Well? MORE sniveling cowardice from you?

        1. Government is the means by which we place the retaliatory use of force under objective law. – Ayn Rand

  26. I thought Somalia was the Great Libertarian Experiment. [Guess I’ve been away too long]

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  28. Does Klugman ever get anything right.
    Just look at the outlandish predictions he made about Trump winning the election.
    The exact opposite happened.
    The NYT has become little more than a propaganda rag.
    Real journalism in America only seems to exist on alternative media.

    1. WHICH earth? In the popular vote, nearly 10 million voted against Trump. He got the highest number of anti votes EVER. Means people were voted against Hillary, NOT for Trump. And he won the Electoral College with a mere 38,000 voters — so how much influence was NEEDED by Russia, Wikileaks and Comey?

      He and Hillary were the least-trusted candidates of all time and he’s the least popular President ever.

      Does Klugman ever get anything right.

      Do you? Fox Pravda? Limbaugh? Infowars?

      Right and left are both now dominated by liars and psychos, though amount to less than 40% of Americans, combined.

      1. There’s no such thing as the popular vote. Only electors vote for the POTUS the rest of us vote for electors.

        1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano understands the Electoral College as well as he does gun control.

        2. There’s no such thing as the popular vote. Only electors vote for the POTUS the rest of us vote for electors.

          THAT’S WHAT THE POPULAR VOTE MEANS, GOOBER
          THIS IS CRAZIER THAN YOUR IGNORANCE OF WHAT IS MEANT BY ….
          a) initiation of force
          b) consent of the governed.

          When and if you reach high school … and IF you pass US History …

          1. No it doesn’t.

  29. Look, Krugman is, first, a fucking statist. Second, he is an entrenched academic (but then I repeat myself). Anything he sees in opposition is the enemy, so especially libertarians.

    1. Look, if you knew jack shit about libertarians, you would not have made such a TOTAL ass of yourself just above!

      Left – Right = Zero = You’re no better than Krugman, as PROVEN.

      1. Ad hominem.

        1. Ice Trey repeats his FUCKING IGNORANCE … AD HOMINEM VS A SUPPORTED ARGUMENT … AS HE COMMITS REPEATED AD HOMINEMS.

          The proof is at the link, LOSER.

          I’ve PROVEN you a moral hypocrite … on top of liar and ignorant … and a childish windbag.

          1. “I’ve PROVEN you a moral hypocrite … on top of liar and ignorant … and a childish windbag.”

            Ad hominem.

  30. MORE PROOF! Trump a bat-shit crazy liar (for any who still NEED proof)

    From FBI data … the 100 most dangerous cities in America … NO border city in the top 60, SUCKERS!
    The “crisis” is not at the border. It’s in Trump’s total lack of moral values … and the limitless gullibility of his obedient cult.

    1. MORE PROOF! Dumbfuck Hihnsano’s a pants shitting drama queen. (for any who still NEED proof)

      This whole comment section.

      1. (yawn) The proof is linked immediately above. PROOF that you’re full of shit, stalking bully,

        1. (stretch) Dumbfuck Hihnsano likes linking to his own idiocy, will put me on his Enemies List for the third time.

          1. The link is to FBI data … LYING THUG.

            1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano’s idiocy = government data

              1. Once again, the link PROVES you a psycho liar!

                From FBI data … the 100 most dangerous cities in America … NO border city in the top 60, SUCKERS!
                The “crisis” is not at the border. It’s in Trump’s total lack of moral values … and the limitless gullibility of his obedient cult.

                How to ENRAGE a Trumptard: PROVE they are bat-cshit crazy.
                SEE the authoritarian thugs punish TruthTellers.

                Documented proof? Or a WHINEY PUSSY?
                (snort)

                1. How to ENRAGE Dumbfuck Hihnsano–point out what a useless whiny pussy he is.

  31. Could be a victory for anarchists, certainly not libertarians if you have any sense of seeing past the bridge of your nose.

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  34. The El Chapo Trial Shows Trump Is All Wrong About Drugs
    … no matter what the president says, the southern border is not how drugs come to America.

    For eight weeks, a jury in Brooklyn federal court has been listening to witnesses recount how Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman moved tons of cocaine and heroin from Mexico to the United States, almost none of it?if any at all?across an unsecured stretch of border.

    The makings of tens of thousands of overdoses was not backpacked across the desert by undocumented aliens. Much of it was smuggled by licensed drivers in vehicles through official points of entry, hidden in jalapeno pepper cans or frozen seafood or hidden compartments or wherever else might elude the searchers and their canines.

    El Chapo also brought drugs in via trains and ships and submarines, none of which would be hampered by a wall. And he did not use tunnels just to break out of a Mexican prison. He constructed more than 100 that ran under border barriers, often from a warehouse in Mexico to one in the U.S., in an industrial area where trucks could come and go without drawing particular attention.

    Listen closely for the screams of anguish, “FAKE NEWS!”
    (lol)

    1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano makes argument to amp up border security at ECPs.

      1. That’s where the problem is.
        Reality cannot be shouted down.
        Deal with it,

        1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano can’t handle the reality that he’s going to die old and alone, and forever wrong on gun control.

          1. Challenge him again on gun control. I LOVE seeing you humiliated!

  35. ANOTHER ass-whupping on Trump … this one by a GURL!

    Border Agent Debunks Trump’s Case For A Wall To His Face: This Is A Tunnel Built Under Existing Wall (video at source)

    U.S. Customs and Border Protection Agent Melissa Lucio showed President Trump how enterprising border crossers have dug elaborate tunnels under walled off sections of the U.S.-Mexico border, “Here, this is just a couple of miles from where we stand. This is a tunnel,” she said, pointing to a photograph of the tunnel. “This is the second tunnel recently that we have located. This is an area that we actually have wall.”

    She’s not being paid, and a woman, but she IS protecting the borders
    a) on the job, and
    b) by whupping Trump’s sorry ass.

    Clearly, his border visit was HUMILIATING.

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  37. Fuck you buddy! I’m fine with the shutdown. If nothing else we can use it as a “Yeah, remember that government shutdown? The one that you completely didn’t notice shit all had happened, because every one of those departments is useless? And you say there’s nothing to trim… Pshhh.”

    And having shutdowns over important issues is fine by me. I’m in favor of the wall, for whatever little practical value it may have… But I’d LOVE to see a shutdown go on as long as it took, until a BALANCED BUDGET was passed. THAT would be a proper use of a shutdown.

  38. Get back to me when the Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid payments stop.

    1. NEVER challenge a goober.

  39. As the platitude goes, capitalism is better than socialism – but crony capitalism is worse.

    Similarly, a small, effective government is better than a big one – but one in disarray, whether big or small, is worse than both.

    Besides, no sane person would expect any cuts resulting from the chaos we see today to be based on anything resembling efficiency or economic rationalism…

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