Donald Trump

No, Replacing NAFTA Doesn't Mean 'MEXICO IS PAYING FOR THE WALL!'

Sorry, Trump.

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|||Polaris/SIPA/Newscom
Polaris/SIPA/Newscom

From the earliest days of his primary campaign, President Trump promised he would build a wall across the southern border and make Mexico pay for it. On Thursday, Trump declared that the United States–Mexico–Canada Agreement (USMCA) would allow him to finally fulfill that promise. The only problem is that this is not true. If the wall gets built, it will still be Americans who foot the bill.

Early talks about the border wall lacked specificity. In January, a payment solution explored by Congressional Republicans had America paying for the wall up front. That wasn't what Trump promised, and so the president tweeted in response that Americans would be reimbursed, perhaps with a 20 percent tax on imports from Mexico. Critics responded that such a tax—and thus the wall itself—would be paid for by American consumers.

On Thursday, Trump announced that the USMCA promises substantial savings over the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), and that means Mexico really is paying for the border wall.

But saving money is not the same as receiving it. Americans will still foot the bill, while possibly watching still more jobs head overseas. Reason's Eric Boehm predicted that certain provisions in the agreement will lead to higher manufacturing costs, which would lead companies to move production outside the U.S.

Unless Trump finds another way to charge Mexico for an American infrastructure project, Americans can fully expect to pay at least $18 billion for the first phase of the wall. They can also expect to pay at least $48.3 billion in repairs throughout the wall's first decade. The actual cost will likely be much higher, as initial estimates rely on "unrealistically cheap construction costs."

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  1. But saving money is not the same as receiving it.

    Yes it is. The same way that not spending as much as you said you would is a cut.

    1. Orange man bad.

    2. Yes it is. The same way that not spending as much as you said you would is a cut.

      No. She doesn’t have a Y chromosome. Spending $90 on a pair of shoes that you don’t need when they would otherwise cost you $110 is saving money.

      1. My friend’s wife came back from a sale at Nordstrom with six bags of items she purchased on sale. Exclaiming “look at all this money I saved you!”

        1. His fault for marrying someone mathematically illiterate.

          1. She does have awfully nice tits though.

            1. Post pics.

        2. See, and you people thought I was joking when I told you about the car dealership in town that advertises “Save $5000 By Buying Now!” and how I stop by there and buy a car every week. (I’m not greedy, I could buy a dozen cars a week and put the poor bastard out of business but I’m happy with a measly quarter-mil a year income.)

    3. It’s the same to saver/receiver, but not to the potential sender who still has his money.

      The whole point of “make Mexico pay for it” is xenophobia, to rub Mexico’s nose in the xenophobe’s rosy red rectum. When Americans save money, that doesn’t insult Mexicans, and not what candidate Trump promised.

      Besides which, USMCA doesn’t save compared to NAFTA. It’s less free tariff-wise and adds bullshit expensive minimum wage restrictions and content sourcing requirements.

    4. Illegal Mexicans pay more in taxes than they receive according to (T)Reason, so they are paying for the wall.

  2. I’d love to believe that you’re against building the wall for purely fiscally conservative reasons, but that isn’t the way this is coming across.

    It sounds more like: “It’s not enough to oppose the wall. We must ensure Trump doesn’t get credit for it!”

    I maintain that we should open legal immigration to far more Mexican citizens–especially those who are willing to come here and work hard for little pay. I also maintain that the support necessary to make such a sweeping change will only materialize when we do a number of other things. One of those may or may not include welfare reform, but one of them necessarily includes getting control of the border. In short, we may never get the kind of open and legal immigration system we’d like until we convince enough of our fellow Americans that our border is secure.

    A system where people are free to come across the border without a visa, simply by showing an ID, would be more open to more people–with a secure border–than our current system is now without a secure border. It’s possible to pay more for a border wall than the border wall is worth, but securing the border shouldn’t be opposed on the basis that it discourages illegal immigration. The way forward to open and legal immigration probably comes at the expense of a secure border and less illegal immigration.

    1. I’m not seeing any opinion on the building of the wall itself. Just criticism of the always ridiculous claim that Mexico is going to pay for it. Which is one of his sillier campaign promises.

      1. You’re not seeing how this is about Trump rather than immigration; it’ss just about how Trump’s campaign promises are silly?

        It’s about immigration to me.

      2. Meh. A 10% tax on all money wired to Mexico and viola!

      3. Illegals pay more in taxes than they receive, supposedly. Voila!

    2. Fact is – he did say Mexico would pay for the wall.

      So why is he insisting that Congress pay for it – or he’ll shut the govt down?

      1. I often stated, “One way or the other, Mexico is going to pay for the Wall.” This has never changed.

        Show of hands here people, who has ever heard the “one way or the other” part come out of Trump’s mouth? He’s always said Mexico is going to pay for the wall, period. Maybe he’s forgotten that everything he says in public gets recorded and there’s actual records of what he’s said.

        1. I recall him saying something similar and all of us laughing at his stupidity then, but I’m too lazy to look for it.

        2. Or maybe he is such a narcissist that he doesn’t actually need a memory. Whenever something is brought up, it’s just a chance for him to talk about him. If something doesn’t reconcile, that’s OK. Bring it up – and he’ll see an opportunity for him to talk about him.

      2. “Fact is – he did say Mexico would pay for the wall.”

        Why does that matter?

        What Donald Trump says and whether he should be reelected isn’t the central issue to anyone unaffected by TDS.

        The issue is immigration and whether we should build a wall.

        If you have arguments in favor or against either one, I suppose I might be interested.

        If everything that happens on every issue is only interesting to you to the extent that it reflects badly on Donald Trump personally, then try to understand that it’s impossible for other people to tell the difference between you and someone with TDS.

        TDS is all about being unable to see the issues clearly because Donald Trump is standing somewhere near them.

        Would you like to talk about Iran, is that all about Donald Trump to you, too? After all, Donald Trump did say something stupid about Iran at some point, I’m sure. But what difference should that make to anyone in regards to our security policy?

        1. Serious Sam is not interested in holding presidents accountable for things they say.

          1. What did Ken do to trigger you? You’ve been crying about him a lot recently.

              1. Sorry, I don’t click youtube links.

                Could you just tell me what he did to trigger you? And why you have been crying about him so much?

          2. If you’re obsessed with whether politicians are telling the truth at the expense of whatever issue they’re talking about, then that’s about you–not me.

        2. Calm down there, bud. Writing an article about the lie of does not constitute any derangement syndrome.

          1. Fuck. Reason, the way you parse posts is naive. What I mean to say is that writing an article about the lie of [current president] does not constitute any derangement syndrome.

            1. If Trump lied about who’s ultimately paying for the wall, does that change your mind one way or the other in regards to whether we should build it?

              If we shouldn’t build it, it’s for reasons that are the same regardless of whether Trump told a fib, was wrong, or right.

              If we should build it, guess what? It’s still for the same reasons regardless of whether Trump lied or should be reelected.

              Trump is a red herring. And it’s amazing that people are so obsessed with the red herring that they can’t even address the issue without referring to it.

              1. This article isn’t asserting the wall is bad because “orange man bad.” It’s mostly about [current president] being caught in a lie. Hell, the last paragraph talks about the cost and potential effects of the wall, which is independent from the person advocating for its construction.

                1. I appreciate what you’re saying, Yellow Tony.

                  I hope you appreciate that whether Trump lied isn’t really important in the big scheme of things. You know how to tell when a politician is lying, right?

                  The important question is whether we should build a wall, what the benefits and costs are, etc.

                  Making it about Trump is a losing argument.

                  1. I hope you appreciate that whether Trump lied isn’t really important in the big scheme of things. You know how to tell when a politician is lying, right?
                    I do appreciate it; however, one can enjoy bringing attention to a government chucklefuck’s lie while also discussing the actual matters. They can be mutually exclusive, and this article is mostly about the former, but it also touches on the latter.

              2. You’re embarrassing yourself Ken.

                1. You’re a shithead, Tony.

                  1. Says the person with his head shoved up President Cheeseburger’s butthole.

        3. What if he is currently involved in delicate – but obviously highly skilled because Trump is the greatest negotiator of all time – negotiations with Mexico to pay for the wall. And Congress just rushes in to pay for the wall and undermines all that negotiation with a near treasonous funding of that wall by Americans instead of Mexicans.

          THAT would be TDS. Refusing to pick up the tab when Mexico has agreed to pick up the tab is supporting Trump.

        4. Alrighty.

          About the Wall : We are reliving the grand’ol days of the nineteenth century No Nothing Party. Then the existential horror was Catholics, Irish, and Italians. These were animals, brutes, sub-humans. They rape our women and savage our towns and villages. Now, there may been some minor adjustments needed in Irish immigration at the time, but that wasn’t the point, was it? Instead, you had loathsome sleazy politicians trying to convince dupes all their problems were caused by some OTHER. The wall is a demagogue’s playtoy, nothing more.

          About Iran : We were told Iran’s nuclear programs was an existential threat. We were told they would never negotiate, but they did. Then we were told no agreement would ever come from it, but one did. Then we were told the agreement wouldn’t be serious, but it was. Then we were told the agreement wouldn’t permit verification, but it did. Then we were told the Iranians would cheat, but they didn’t.

          Then – after all that – we suddenly hear the agreement is BAD because it doesn’t cover missiles, or because Iran isn’t suddenly our friend, or because Iran misbehaves in the region. So much for the danger of Iran’s nuclear program, huh? Neither Trump or anyone else has the slightest clue what to do if Iran restarts their A-bomb program tomorrow. This whole mess was never anything more than nuzzling up to the Saudis, who are barely less contemptible than the Iranians. Can you say “short-sighted” ???

  3. Unless Trump finds another way to charge Mexico for an American infrastructure project, Americans can fully expect to pay at least $18 billion for the first phase of the wall. They can also expect to pay at least $48.3 billion in repairs throughout the wall’s first decade. The actual cost will likely be much higher, as initial estimates rely on “unrealistically cheap construction costs.”

    Wrong tense throughout. The likelihood a wall is to be built resembles the likelihood that Pres. Trump is going to rework economic fundamentals to enable downscale, uneducated, unskilled, rural white males to prosper at the expense of educated “elites” with marketable skills residing in successful, modern communities.

    1. Your one note bullshit is unoriginal, repetitive, unimaginative, weak, and the hallmark of a stunting. I d with stunted dreams.

      1. ‘Tiny mind with stunted dreams’.

      2. Ironic

      3. You’re not getting a wall, you authoritarian bigot. Mexico is not paying for any wall, you half-educated rube. Anyone who believed a Mexico-funded wall would be built is a gullible yahoo who deserves no respect..

        That’s three notes.

  4. Why do we need to shut down the government to build the wall if Mexico is paying for it?

    1. Because first Congress has to pay for the wall, then Trump will somehow force Mexico to reimburse us for the wall building expenses.

      1. You just don’t get it. Trump is going to sign an executive order to hire all the unemployed incels and true AMERICAN men, who BLEED stripes and SHIT stars, that lost their jobs to those dammed chinks and browns, and then He will have them prostitute themselves south of the border to earn money for the wall! It’s so fucking simple, but you plebs will never understand the prodigious genius of our Leader.
        God Bless, MAGA!

        1. LC1789??

          1. Poor trolls. Theyre Very upset that Mexicans are paying for the extension of the border wall.

      2. Illegals pay more in taxes than they receive.

        Mexicans pay for wall.

  5. At this point in time it’s hard to argue that Trump is merely economically illiterate. He’s been president for almost two years. It’s enough time to figure out which way is up.

    A tariff is a tax on domestic consumption no matter how you slice it. Mexico doesn’t pay a tariff on Mexican good, Americans who buy Mexican goods play the tariff.

    Continuing to tweet that Mexico is going to pay for the wall is an outright lie. Not a mistaken falsehood, but a deliberate destruction of the truth. And his enablers in his administration know it. That the press does not call him on it is because the press is itself willfully ignorant of economics.

    1. Ya, that tweet is packed with so much retard. I don’t know what would be sadder. If he actually believed what he just said, if any of his die-hard cuck fanboys actually believe it, or the fact that the President is either blatantly disingenuous (lying) or convinced of his own bizarre reasoning that wouldn’t pass muster in a class of 5th graders.

    2. That’s the heart of TDS right there – this article is just #4,381,442 in the never-ending series of “Trump Lies Like A Motherfucking Rug About Absolutely Everything And Nobody Gives A Shit”. The progressives have won, we’re now living in a post-truth society. Whatever you feel to be true is just as validly true as whatever anybody else feels to be true and it’s just a matter of who gets to shove their truth down the other side’s throat. Hillary’s the most qualified Presidential candidate in history, Bernie’s well-respected for his economic policy chops, Obama was the smartest man ever to be President, Trump’s the world’s foremost expert on Article XII of the US Constitution. It’s all true if you just feel it hard enough.

      1. Bernie’s well-respected for his economic policy chops
        Is he not?

    3. That the press does not call him on it is because the press is itself willfully ignorant of economics.

      I think this is an excellent assessment. However, I’m not convinced Trump doesn’t have any clue about these economic principals because very few college educated members of the press seem to know these things so… if we accept that the larger establishment press corps are educated and “smart people” and their knowledge of economics is as bad as they’ve demonstrated, then why would we believe that Trump would have better insight than they?

      And again, this isn’t an apology for Trump, it’s merely an observation about the state of economic knowledge in modern times. When two opposing sides have the same, dumb economic views, you’re not going to see that as a source of conflict.

      1. The press at least has the excuse that they don’t actually have to understand the news that they report. If Trump says the Mexicans will pay for the wall, then just report that without asking him if it will be the Mexicans in Mexico paying it, or Americans of Mexican descent who will be paying it along with Americans of every other descent and ethnicity.

        Trump, however, is sitting in the desk where buck stops. He has no excuse.

  6. He’s the only one who needs to be convinced, so why not just let him believe it? Also, just photoshop a fucking wall tweet it to him or whatever.

  7. How about fining the dreamers $1,000 or $2,000 for their immigration violations in exchange for permanent resident visas and use the $5-10B to pay for the wall? Dreamers get legal status without amnesty and they(mostly Mexicans) pay for the wall.

  8. The only problem is that this is not true

    Trump rarely is. Except before or after a flip, or two. Or three.

    1. Lick my bleached asshole, faggot.

  9. I thought Russia was paying for the wall.

  10. The actual cost will likely be much higher, as initial estimates rely on “unrealistically cheap construction costs.”

    Nah, he’ll just stiff the contractors.

  11. I have been assured that illegals pay more in taxes than they receive.

    That money to the US Treasury goes to building MORE of the border wall that is already there.

    Thanks Mexicans.

  12. please come to the conclusion you won’t beat T on rationalizing who’s paying for the wall it will clear your mind

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