Judge Rules American Detainee in Iraq Gets a Lawyer, Flake Says Trump 'Inviting' a 2020 GOP Challenger, Red Crabs Migrate to Christmas Island: A.M. Links

• 

  Peter from Perth/flickr

  In his Christmas homily, Pope Francis said the story of the Nativity was echoed in today's refugee crisis, and that Jesus came to give everyone their "documents of citizenship."

• President Trump is spending the Christmas holiday in Mar-a-lago, where he called troops stationed overseas and also tweeted some junk.
• Real Washington Post headline: "In a pro-Trump town, they never stopped saying 'Merry Christmas'"
• A federal judge ruled an unidentified American the U.S. military is detaining in Iraq as an enemy combatant had to be granted access to a lawyer immediately.
• Sen. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) says Trump is "inviting" a Republican challenger in 2020.
• A package of manure was sent to Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin's house in Bel Air.
• The president of Guatemala announced his country would also be moving its embassy in Israel to Jerusalem.
• Google Street View engineers caught the migration of millions of red crabs to Christmas Island, and will post the video next year.

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Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Links? They didn't even do links for those freed Iranian hostages.

[Fist of Etiquette]

"Ah, they shouldn't have been there in the first place."

(Can't believe I had to do that myself.)

[Rufus The Monocled]

Hello.

170 comments, eh? Fine form. Fine, form.

"In his Christmas homily, Pope Francis said the story of the Nativity was echoed in today's refugee crisis, and that Jesus came to give everyone their "documents of citizenship."

It's hard not to think he's annoying the backbenchers of the Vatican. Dude is making shit up.

[Rhywun]

Our local (NYC) poo-bahs manage to keep politics out of it - I bet they're tired of the Grand Nagus sticking his foot in his mouth all the time too.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The president of Guatemala announced his country would also be moving its embassy in Israel to Jerusalem.

At least Trump is someone's bellwether.

[BestUsedCarSales]

"Like a bridge over troubled waters, I will lay you down." - Trump and Garfunkle

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

Even Trump couldn't revive Garfunkel's career.

[Fist of Etiquette]

...Jesus came to give everyone their "documents of citizenship."

The Messiah did love His paperwork.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Who true gift to the world was filling all the necessary forms to render unto Caesar.

[Tom Bombadil]

What would Jesus do?
Likely he'd personally drop-kick that retard pope into the Lake of Fire.

[Hank Phillips]

The good news is that all 65 million Saracen berserker refugees from God and Allah are welcome in Vatican City. Their Italian passports are already being printed and they should have no trouble democratically voting Sharia Law there once they have full citizenship. Every illiterate urine tester who criticized the libertarian platform for "pushing open borders" can now rest easy. Trumps Mohammedan Exclusion Act is mooted by this best of all Lateran treaties.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Sen. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) says Trump is "inviting" a Republican challenger in 2020.

President Flake?

[SIV]

He's got Matt Welch's vote sewn up...unless Hillary is running again.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

As proud as I was to vote for Hillary in 2016, I don't expect her to run in 2020. After what she's been through? Decades of right-wing smears to create a false impression she's somehow "dishonest." Sexist speculation about whether she's "healthy." A completely manufactured controversy about her e-mails. And worst of all, an election hacked by Russia.

This country doesn't deserve Hillary. She's too good for us.

[Tom Bombadil]

It's how I used to break up with chicks.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Wait.

You're serious?

[Rhywun]

That is an act.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

I admire principled conservatives who have taken a stand against Drumpf. You know, people like Jeff Flake, Jennifer Rubin, and David Frum.

But I think Orange Hitler will be out of office before 2020. If Mueller's investigation somehow fails to uncover the treasonous Russian collusion that obviously occurred, the 2018 midterm election Democratic wave will produce a Congress ready to impeach.

[crufus]

The Democrats will not be able to get to the 67 Senate seats needed to to get a conviction, because only 8 Republican seats are up for re-election.

They would need 11 or more Republican Senators to actually convict him, and that seems unlikely at this point.

I don't see Trump resigning in shame, no matter what they find out about him.

[Palin's Buttplug]

I don't see Trump resigning in shame

He has no capacity for shame based on his daily lies.

[Tom Bombadil]

Said PB gazing into the mirror.

[Palin's Buttplug]

And you're always wrong when you oppose what I say.

Days ago I made this statement of fact, "The ACA was paid for through a tax increase" which you offered as proof that I wasn't a small government liberal.

It was and is a statement of fact - not an ideological endorsement. On the scale of bad government programs like Medicare Prescription Welfare Part D (GOP 2003) programs that are NOT paid for are worse than those that are paid for.

However both can be bad at the same time.

[chemjeff]

Even if Dems take Congress in 2019, they won't impeach Trump, just like they didn't impeach Bush in 2007 - they just campaign and fundraise off the possibility of it, just as a means to achieve power to do what they actually want to do.

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

Ok, this one is better. This comment actually passes as a true prog comment.

[stuartl]

And it still has subtle humor, in the choice of principled conservatives and "...somehow fails to uncover the treasonous Russian collusion that obviously occurred...". 7 out of 10.

Is this the same commenter as "fruit sushi" from years ago?

[Hank Phillips]

After Ross Perot spoiler votes handed God's Own Prohibitionists' ass to Billy Clinton, all Trump had to do to sew up the GOP nomination was smile at the camera and say "Libertarianism? I like it!" It worked in 2015-16, and it will damn sure work again in 2020, now that the LP has rippled its 4 million spoiler votes. (Gentlemanly wagers accepted where not prohibited by law.)

[Rufus The Monocled]

Give us, do pray tell, ONE thing he's done to impeach.

[Fist of Etiquette]

A federal judge ruled an unidentified American the U.S. military is detaining in Iraq as an enemy combatant had to be granted access to a lawyer immediately.

This judge knows what the military didn't, the job of the criminal justice system is solely to guarantee work for lawyers!

[Hank Phillips]

Hey, no worries. According to the court papers, the Military-Industrial Complex is about to spirit the unnamed infidel prisoner to a special Gitmo inside of Saudi Arabia. I'm confident he'll be protected, all his rights respected...

[Fist of Etiquette]

"In a pro-Trump town, they never stopped saying 'Merry Christmas'"

Making for a very Twilight Zony April.

[Fist of Etiquette]

A package of manure was sent to Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin's house in Bel Air.

And his grass has never been greener.

[Eidde]

Meanwhile, the Agriculture Secretary is pondering the gold bars he got for Christmas.

[Hank Phillips]

Any wagers on whether they're AU 198?

[Libertarian]

It's California, so at least we know it was organic.

[Tom Bombadil]

"A package of manure was sent to Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin's house in Bel Air."

Tony FedEx'd himself.

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

I don't want to know the meaning of this euphemism.

[CE]

Actually, the cops dumped the manure on his neighbor's yard, because they were looking for a bomb.

[Nwallins]

He yelled to the cabbie "Yo homes, smell ya later!"

[Fist of Etiquette]

President Trump is spending the Christmas holiday in Mar-a-lago...

As close to a desert island as he would grant Melania.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Google Street View engineers caught the migration of millions of red crabs to Christmas Island, and will post the video next year.

Although pro-Trump towns will have access to the footage all year round.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Merry Christmas.

[SIV]

Jesus is the Reason for the Season!

[BestUsedCarSales]

Merry Christmas to all y'all commentators. And Merry Christmas to you SIV.

[Eidde]

"tweeted some junk"

Phrasing?

[CE]

You know who else tweeted their junk?

[stuartl]

Brett Favre?

[Nwallins]

Oscar Mayer?

[Hank Phillips]

Lucky for him he's over 18.

[Palin's Buttplug]

"In a pro-Trump town, they never stopped saying 'Merry Christmas'"

Wow. That must be one of the those "job killing regulations" Dotard overturned that I keep hearing about.

That damn Obama FORCED everyone to say 'Happy Holidays'.

[Sevo]

And I see turd is horrified also.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Donald Trump takes credit for making people proud to say 'Merry Christmas' again

http://www.thejournal.ie/donal.....7-Dec2017/

Trump's power has no limitation!

[Eidde]

He's got the power!

No, I won't do that link today.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Merry Christmas to you too Eddie.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Trump's power has no limitation!

Neither does your butthurt.

[Sevo]

"Donald Trump takes credit for making people proud to say 'Merry Christmas' again"

Poor, poor loser turd! It's been a YEAR and he still can't get over he and the hag losing!
Poor, poor turd!
Hey, turd, GROW UP.

[Scarecrow Repair & Chippering]

I'm convinced turd is just an unhappy camper. He's angry all the time; I don't recall any post of his which wasn't angry. But the anger didn't change across the election. He was just as angry before as after.

Either he wants a Stalin or Hitler or Mao, and nothing less will satisfy him, or it just doesn't matter to him. He just likes to be angry, and he's found that coming here satisfies his anger lust better than elsewhere. HuffPo, Salon -- no joy, they are way too easy to bait.

[Tom Bombadil]

It's not that Obama forced anything. It's just that he's such a raging pussy, he couldn't bring himself to refer to a holiday by the name that everyone knows is the holiday. No doubt that kind of timidity is what you look for in a boyfriend.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Proof you're an idiot that doesn't know what he is talking about:

http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/wa.....6457667627

[Tom Bombadil]

Never sent out a Christmas card that said "Merry Christmas". Instead: "Season's Greetings". WTF is a greeting of a season? or "Happy Holidays". What holiday is that? The one where you don't have to go to work on December 25? Such weak sauce. His entire career is weak sauce.

[Palin's Buttplug]

"Season's Greetings" covers everyone and saves money and time.

Smart choice in fact.

[Tom Bombadil]

No, the smart choice is don't send out any cards. That saves the most time and money.

The weak sauce choice is to send out cards at Christmas and Hanukkah time that say "Season's Greetings".

Not surprised you are a fan of weak sauce.

[CE]

Plus you can send it 4 times a year.

[Nwallins]

'tis the reason to be sorry

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

Real libertarians don't get offended by how other people word their holiday wishes.

[Hank Phillips]

Wasn't the 18th Amendment a Christmas wish?

[Sevo]

"Real Washington Post headline: "In a pro-Trump town, they never stopped saying 'Merry Christmas'"

And they all wear tight wrist-watch bands and eat fired chicken with a fork and the Wa Po is *horrified*!

[Red Tony]

Hey.

Hey chicken.

Chicken, hey.

YOU'RE FIRED!

[Sevo]

Singer thinks her opinion is worth a shit:

"Lorde cancels Tel Aviv concert amid calls to boycott Israel"
[...]
"Her decision came shortly after two writers from New Zealand?Nadia Abu-Shanab and Justine Sachs?wrote the artist an open letter titled "Dear Lorde, here's why we're urging you not to play Israel."
http://www.sfgate.com/music/ar.....453496.php

[Eidde]

Here's one Lorde they can do without.

[Libertarian]

Oh dear lord.

[Palin's Buttplug]

I'm boycotting Israel and Palestine.

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

That's exactly what Randy Marsh would do.

[Eidde]

In the Pope's homily I saw, not a focus on voluntary immigrants, but on people forced out of their homes, like Mary and Joseph forced out of Nazareth to register for the census, and by implication in their fleeing to Egypt (in each case the Holy Family went back to Nazareth when the compulsion was over).

"So many other footsteps are hidden in the footsteps of Joseph and Mary. We see the tracks of entire families forced to set out in our own day. We see the tracks of millions of persons who do not choose to go away but, driven from their land, leave behind their dear ones. In many cases this departure is filled with hope, hope for the future; yet for many others this departure can only have one name: survival. Surviving the Herods of today, who, to impose their power and increase their wealth, see no problem in shedding innocent blood."

According to the article, the "document of citizenship" remark, though strictly referring to the Kingdom of Heaven, was probably an allusion to a Church-backed bill in the Italian Parliament which would have put Italian citizenship on jus soli principles. Like in the U.S.

[Deflator Mouse]

And if Joseph had gone to Egypt alone, leaving Mary and Jesus behind to deal with the supposed threat to their lives, and demanded welfare from the Pharaoh and lit chariots on fire when he didn't get it, that would be a good analogy.

[Eidde]

I don't think this is what William Blake meant by "Bring me my Chariot of fire!"

[Deflator Mouse]

So seriously, are you defending the Pope's statement here? It's like if Pius XII had come out in the middle of WW2 and said that it was good that Hitler wasn't putting black people in concentration camps. Not untrue in itself, but completely missing the elephant in the room.

You know you don't have to defend everything he excretes from his mouth. The Borgia popes had sex with animals, and I hope you don't defend them. The pope can be a horrible person with a lot of wrong opinions, and that doesn't impact the legitimacy of his office.

[Eidde]

I think the Pope is naive about immigration, but much of the homily is taken up with people forced from their homes.

If the Pope wanted to write his naivete into the Catechism, then we could discuss it then, but for now, the Catechism, while mentioning the duty of rich countries to take their fair share of poor migrants, also emphasizes the duty of the migrants to respect the institutions of the countries they're in.

[JoeBlow123]

+1 for burning chariots imagery, good stuff.

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

Where did this idea of immigrants demanding welfare come from? I don't know a single immigrant on welfare. I only know many that are working their asses off, though.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Pope Hippie's "Surviving the Herods" remark shows that he doesn't understand much about the geo-political dynamics of the post-WW1 Middle East.

[Hank Phillips]

The Republican US? The one where D.M. Bennett was indicted, tried convicted, fined and imprisoned in 1879 for sending "An Open Letter to Jesus Christ" through the Postal Monopoly in violation of the Comstock Law? That letter is only online because force and faith are being replaced by freedom and reason.

[Azathoth!!]

Mary and Joseph weren't 'forced out of their homes' They had to travel to Bethlehem like everyone else for whom Bethlehem was their census point. They went home afterwards. Again, like everyone else.

We have a distorted view of what was going on because of inspirational artwork getting everything wrong. Like those images of Mary on a donkey and Joseph leading it as they wander, all alone, towards Bethlehem. Except all the other people headed in for the census.

One would expect the Pope to know stuff like this--well, a REAL Pope anyway. Commie pope's an atheist.

[Rockabilly]

Retired Navy pilot sharing nerve-racking story of unexplained UFO encounter

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/n.....lr9IXvXeL/

Comrade MoonBeam welcomes all illegal aliens.

[CE]

Trained observer, unexplained video, yeah, another nut case.

[Palin's Buttplug]

More than 4 in 5 enrolled in 'Obamacare' are in Trump states

https://goo.gl/5RLJM8

[Libertarian]

Easy explanation. It's well known that people in red states are less likely to break the law, and are therefore are being coerced into participating in Obamacare.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Seriously, in red states the Affordable Care Act is wildly popular but if you call it Obamacare even the participants don't approve of it.

Red State idiocy at play.

[Libertarian]

That's the beauty of coercion. It doesn't matter if you "approve" of it or not.

[BestUsedCarSales]

It says the total enrollment is about 9 million too, so 3% of the US only. It also correlates with states with less Medicare benefits.

[Palin's Buttplug]

so 3% of the US only

A GUVMENT TAKEOVER OF THE HEALTH CARE BUSINESS!

[Sevo]

"A GUVMENT TAKEOVER OF THE HEALTH CARE BUSINESS!"

Keep changing the subject, turd. You wouldn't want to break your record for mendacity!

[stuartl]

Only 9 million/3%? So it is a failure after all.

[Paloma]

So it's totally worth everyone else's insurance premiums tripling.

[Tom Bombadil]

"Seriously, in red states the Affordable Care Act is wildly popular"

One of Trump's main campaign mantras was "repeal Obamacare", and then he went out and won all those states where Obamacare was wildly popular.
Interesting.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Notice he called it Obamacare and not the Affordable Care Act.

[Tom Bombadil]

Everyone calls it Obamacare. It's been called Obamacare for years. There is nothing affordable about it. To quote Shakespeare: "What's in a name? A pile of shit by any other name would stink just as bad."

If Obamacare was "wildly popular", Trump would not have won the election.

[Paloma]

There's really nothing Affordable about it anyway.

[chemjeff]

Oh please. I don't think it is some ideological statement. I think instead it is just a matter of red states being generally poorer and therefore its recipients having more need of the ObamaCare subsidies.

I submit that most people aren't ideologues, they are just looking for what will best benefit them, and if that means taking a government handout, they will do it.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Yes, right on.

Why are red states poorer?

[Tom Bombadil]

One reason might be that a million dollar house near Seattle sells for $300,000 in Alabama. And everything else is Seattle is more expensive, including labor. Someone earning 100K in Seattle might have the same standard of living as a 50K earner in Alabama. Thus, the Alabama homeowners is way poorer on paper only.

[BestUsedCarSales]

I make 100,000 dollars in Seattle area and live in a 1 bedroom condo. If I lived in Seattle proper it would be a Studio.

[Hank Phillips]

"The" law? as in The One True Law? I want to know what percentage of Bluish States send First Responders? with guns to serve and protect people from the wrong kind of plant leaves.

[Deflator Mouse]

1. That doesn't translate to 4 in 5 Obamacare enrollees being Trump supporters, which is obviously the conclusion you want the reader to draw.

2. States with higher inherent rates of poverty are more likely to be red states, as leftism cannot exist without a fat, healthy host to parasite off of. If you tried to implement SF or NYC leftism in South Dakota everyone would starve.

[chemjeff]

It wasn't all that long ago that the Midwest was a bastion of New Deal Liberalism.

[BestUsedCarSales]

On Friday, Christian died and didn't even get us his crappy PM links. 4 days later, Ed rose early on Christmas morning to bring us a new post, a new covenant, on which we shitpost.

Bless you, Ed.

[Libertarian]

I'm confused. Is it Easter already?

[BestUsedCarSales]

TReasonnn (get it?) Writers don't bother to figure out the difference between any of these "Conservative witchcults" as Soave calls it.

[Scarecrow Repair & Chippering]

He did call us all crabs. I think it was in the jesty spirit of the season.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Alleged neo-Nazi teen suspected of killing Virginia couple

"My daughter and her husband found out about a lot of the Nazi stuff just this past week, and they forbid their daughter to see him again," Janet Kuhn, the mother of Buckley Kuhn-Fricker, told NBC Washington. But she did not confirm that the boyfriend was the suspect in the investigation.

https://goo.gl/XypPqm

[Palin's Buttplug]

A friend who spoke on condition of anonymity to the Post recalled Kuhn-Fricker fretting over her daughter's relationship and saying, "We can't allow her to see someone associated with Nazis ... We don't associate with hate groups in our house."

Snowflakey lib.

[Eidde]

They don't like the nationalist kind of socialism?

What was wrong with Edward Bellamy?

[Palin's Buttplug]

Only in Wing-Nut World do some people associate racist genocide NAZIs with equal stuff for all peoples.

Because killing millions of people is just like giving them free stuff!

[Eidde]

Why do you use the acronym? It's "national socialist" - in contradistinction to "international socialist."

The American Nationalist Clubs were in favor of government control of industry. The "giving people free stuff" part of the program was preceded by "stealing people's stuff" - not that this would have any effect on the incentives which causes stuff to be produced in the first place!

[Sevo]

Palin's Buttplug|12.25.17 @ 10:22AM|#
"Only in Wing-Nut World do some people associate racist genocide NAZIs with equal stuff for all peoples."

Only poorly-read ignoramuses make statements like this.
Hey, you pathetic excuse for humanity, try "The Wages of Destruction" (Tooze), and "World at Arms" (Weinberg).
Perhaps if you learn to read and do so, you wan't make an ass of yourself so often.

[NYC2AZ]

"Palin's Buttplug|12.25.17 @ 10:22AM|#

Only in Wing-Nut World do some people associate racist genocide NAZIs with equal stuff for all peoples.

Because killing millions of people is just like giving them free stuff!"

You're right, the Nazi's only accounted for a small fraction of the total socialist body count in the 20th Century.

[Scarecrow Repair & Chippering]

For the record

[Palin's Buttplug]

Anyway, Trump said Neo-Nazis were "good people".

His "base" in other words.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Anyway, you completely shifted the subject. Merry Christmas regardless.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Anyway, you completely shifted the subject. Merry Christmas regardless.

[Sevo]

"Anyway, Trump said Neo-Nazis were "good people"."
No, you lying piece of shit, he did not.

[Tom Bombadil]

"Neo-Nazis are good people"

Can you cite that quote?

[Palin's Buttplug]

Trump Defends White-Nationalist Protesters: 'Some Very Fine People on Both Sides'

https://goo.gl/Fzpx7m

[Sevo]

Keep lying, turd:

"Trump Defends White-Nationalist Protesters: 'Some Very Fine People on Both Sides'"
=/=
"Trump said Neo-Nazis were "good people"."

If you aren't lying, turd, you arren't posting

[Tom Bombadil]

Shithead. You know very well he was referring to people who are trying to preserve historical statues and monuments, some of whom are very fine people. Some of whom are racists. Some people opposing them are racists and anti-free speech. Some of the people opposing are fine people. Is this controversial to you based on what you've seen and heard?

[Hank Phillips]

Edward Bellamy--especially "Equality," his eloquent disquisition on Christian Socialism--was translated into German, and his brother's cool ideas for oaths of allegiance and salutes became really popular over there even before 1933. This is not brought up by the religious "right" as often as it used to be.

[Libertarian]

I think the current pic of the Pope at Drudge is problematic. But that's just me.

http://drudgereport.com

[Palin's Buttplug]

Not so Innocent.

[Deflator Mouse]

Gives a whole new meaning to "Maranatha".

[Ken Shultz]

"In his Christmas homily, Pope Francis said the story of the Nativity was echoed in today's refugee crisis, and that Jesus came to give everyone their "documents of citizenship."

The Pope is terribly confused on a number of issues. The nature of God's government being a big one:

"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

----Luke 17: 20-21

God's government only exists in people's hearts. It wasn't in Jerusalem or Rome, and it isn't in Washington DC.

God's will isn't reflected in any government. Citizenship in God's government is granted to anyone who does God's will. Don't look for God's will to manifest itself in any government. God insists that we respect each others' rights regardless of what the government wants.

[Ken Shultz]

That's why LGBTQI+, atheists, minorities, progressives, Muslims, and Jews should all be glad that Jesus was born. He commanded Christians to treat every one of you individually as if you were worthy of his sacrifice. "If you have done so unto the least of these, you have done so unto me". If Christians have fallen short of this command in the past, I shudder to think how badly these people might have been treated if Jesus had never been born. If you're not a Christian, you should definitely wish your Christian friends a merry Christmas.

When Christians have fallen short of this in the past, it's often been because they conflated the government with God's will. Pope Francis should spend more time reading his Bible and less time pontificating on things he doesn't understand. Maybe it's hard to understand that God's kingdom is a heavenly government--when you're the head of a theocratic state like Pope Francis.

[Eidde]

The Pope's theocratic state is a very small district taken from the City of Rome. Outside that state, he does not pass laws, hire and fire officials, etc.

The homily suggested that we should be more welcoming of people *forced from their homes* like the Holy Family - first by Caesar, then by Herod. Caesar ordered them to St. Joseph's ancestral city to register for the census. This was obviously a crowded event, for which the Bethlehemites were not prepared, hence no room at the inn. After registering, the Holy Family returned to Nazareth.

Then King Herod ordered the killing of the firstborn and the Holy Family fled as refugees to Egypt. When Herod died, they came back home.

Notice that it's government oppression in each case which drives people from their homes, where they would prefer to remain.

Nowadays, many people (e.g., Mideastern Christians) are being driven from their homes, contrary to their preferences, by state persecution and terrorist persecution.

[Ken Shultz]

It doesn't matter to God whether the refugees are Mideastern Christians. God makes the rain fall on the good and the evil alike.

Matthew 5:44-48

The question is whether God's will should be conflated with government, and the answer is no.

Jesus didn't come to give everyone "documents of citizenship" in any earthly kingdom. "The kingdom of God is within you". We're governed by God's laws when we choose them for ourselves.

Anyone who suggests using the government to do God's will is ignoring what Jesus said in the Bible. Jesus fundamentally rejected that proposition.

[Eidde]

I'm simply suggesting that the Pope, whatever his views in general, put a lot of focus on what *bad* governments to do drive people from their homes - eg, Caesar and Herod. There were the only specific governmental entities mentioned in the homily.

Like I said above, I think the Pope is naive about immigration, but he has yet to delete the part of the Catechism about migrants respecting the institutions of the countries they're in.

As a practical matter, many migrants have *not* observed this restriction.

[Ken Shultz]

You seem to want to divorce his statements today from everything else he's said and done.

He's anti-capitalist, insists that government be used to combat climate change, and by both his words and actions, doesn't appear to think much of the argument that people shouldn't be forced to both abandon capitalism and effectuate climate change--against their will.

Now, he's telling us that God's will and the government are one on refugees--because of Mary and Joseph? Inflicting God's will by way of government contradicts what Jesus said and did. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong, and anyone who condones God's will and government as the same--in the name of Christianity--doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Looks to me like he's hostile to Jesus' central message. I wouldn't take this man's word for anything about Jesus or Christianity, and if Pope Francis' intentions are good, that just makes it worse.

[Sevo]

"Jesus fundamentally rejected that proposition."
Ain't no junior, Ken. Fail.
Might just as well argue about what Santa said.

[Ken Shultz]

The text says what it says regardless of whether you believe Jesus of Nazareth was divine.

And what it says, repeatedly, is that God's only true government is within you.

Certainly, Jesus' libertarianism isn't false because it comes from texts about Jesus.

[Paloma]

Pontiffs gonna pontificate.

[Ken Shultz]

And that isn't the worst of it.

[Hank Phillips]

Isn't every government a monopoly in the forcible restraint of men within a specific jurisdiction?

[Deflator Mouse]

IIRC Catholic doctrine still states that Muslims who are exposed to the Gospel and do not convert are condemned to hell. And very, very few Muslim immigrants convert.

So wouldn't it be better for their eternal souls to leave them in Muslim countries where they might have a shot at salvation by leading a good life while unaware of the Gospel?

[Palin's Buttplug]

This Pope says even non-believers go to Heaven.

So I got that going for me.

[Deflator Mouse]

"Some" non-believers, who through no fault of their own were unaware of the gospel.

If he said "all", he's a heretic and gets buried upside down in ice in the lowest circle of hell.

[BestUsedCarSales]

I'm so sick of the Unitarian sect of the Catholic Church.

[Palin's Buttplug]

I'm so sick of the Unitarian sect of the Catholic Church.

Why?

Why not dispense with all the ridiculous dogma?

[chemjeff]

Well, PB, the dogma is the defining characteristic of any church, Catholic or otherwise.

[Palin's Buttplug]

dogma is the defining characteristic of any church

Yes, and that is the fun part.

Martin Luther rejected the dogma of the RCC. So good for him. But he replaced it with other absurd dogma.

So lets just try dogma-free for once.

[Sevo]

You might try that, turd, and if you had any ethics whatsoever, you might try posting without a lie once in your pathetic life.

[chemjeff]

"Dogma-free" is called no religion at all.

Which is fine, for atheists & co.

But for churches, well, there has to be some dogma. They are free to have whatever dogma they like.

[Paloma]

Okay, then maybe we can go light on the dogma?

[BestUsedCarSales]

'tis a joke my dear. It's valuable to have a little bit of knowledge of a subject you're shitting on. Not knowing and showing some discretion is not a bad thing in anyway.

[Paloma]

Well you don't recall correctly. Catholicism teaches that anyone who repents of sin because he's remorseful he offended God gets into heaven. Eventually. It's much more humanistic and rational than the Bible worshipping Protestants who think anyone, no matter how good a life they've lived, if they don't acknowledge Jesus as their savior, they go to hell. Forever. And even worse, the nutcases who believe in predestination.

[chemjeff]

I don't get this obsession with "War On Christmas" nonsense. If you want to say "Merry Christmas", then fine. If you want to say "Happy Holidays", then fine. If you want to say "Happy Hanukkah" or "Feliz Navidad" or "Happy Festivus" or whatever then go right ahead. There is no "War on Christmas". There is however a greater understanding that not everyone in America is a practicing Christian and may not celebrate Christmas in the same way that a devout religious Christian might. So just saying "Happy Holidays" seems more polite and less assumptive about what your interlocutor might believe. Is it the right-wing critique that everyone ought to say "Merry Christmas" when encountering strangers because... Murica? Even to those whom you know aren't Christians? This "War on Christmas" nonsense seems to be a way for the right to enforce its own type of political correctness.

[Palin's Buttplug]

HEY! TRUMP DECLARED THE USA A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY!

[Sevo]

Hey! turd lied one more time!
"Trump Pronounces America a 'Judeo-Christian Nation' Because 'That's The Way It Is'"
http://www.politicususa.com/20.....ts-is.html

[Palin's Buttplug]

Yes. Your own link goes on to say:

Donald Trump once again displayed that six-year-old's depth of understanding by proclaiming that America is a Judeo-Christian nation, because "that's just the way it's been."

Dotard = six year old depth.

You got it right for once Sevo.

[Sevo]

Turd, keep lying.

"Donald Trump once again displayed that six-year-old's depth of understanding by proclaiming that America is a Judeo-Christian nation, because "that's just the way it's been.""
=/=
"TRUMP DECLARED THE USA A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY!"

Keep it up, turd. If you aren't lying, you aren't posting

[Hank Phillips]

The State Department and Senate said otherwise in the 1796 treaty with Tripoli: Article XI. As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. (page 1786 of the 4-Vol Treaties collection)

[Tom Bombadil]

"There is however a greater understanding that not everyone in America is a practicing Christian and may not celebrate Christmas in the same way that a devout religious Christian might. "

That doesn't change the fact that it is Christmas. I'm not a Muslim but I'm aware that Eid al-Fitr is called Eid al-Fitr and not "Happy Holidays".

[Paloma]

#MeToo

[Stormy Dragon]

I don't care if you say "Happy Holiday", "Merry Christmas", "Seasons Greetings", whatever as long as it's sincere.

The only thing that bothers me is the people who say them so it's clear they really mean "Fuck You".

[chemjeff]

I know, right? That seems to be a type of sacrilege rather than actually wishing someone to have a happy holiday. Using the phrase "Merry Christmas" as a rhetorical or political weapon against "unbelievers".

[RT]

I'm not that into the whole, "War on Christmas" thing (I am a practicing Catholic), but I think it is more of a sense that people aren't "permitted" to say Merry Christmas in mixed company, in which saying "Merry Christmas" to a non-Christian is taken as an insult or at least some kind of lower order offense. So, if there's a sense that people saying "Seasons Greetings" and "Happy Holidays" to a stranger is fine, then so should saying "Merry Christmas". This is not to discount those that say "Merry Christmas" to those they know aren't Christian to make a point, although I can see a distinction even there between those being a jerk (which is counter to what they profess to be celebrating) and just sharing good will.

I will say I grow tired of the whole thing, to be honest, when in fact Americans generally bend over backwards not to cause offense and be inclusive - more so than most countries, I'd wager.

[chemjeff]

"but I think it is more of a sense that people aren't "permitted" to say Merry Christmas in mixed company, in which saying "Merry Christmas" to a non-Christian is taken as an insult or at least some kind of lower order offense."

Some people are overly sensitive. What are you going to do.

It doesn't illustrate a broader "war on Christmas", just that some people are too touchy.

If I said "Merry Christmas" to someone, and that person said, "well, I don't celebrate Christmas, I'm actually a Jew" or something, then I'd say "oh I'm sorry, then Happy Hannukah to you". But to hear some people talk, the correct response should be "oh yeah? well, you're living in America so you will accept MERRY FKN CHRISTMAS and like it!"

[RT]

Yeah, people should just lighten up all around. Most people just want to be civil to each other, most of the time.

[wareagle]

When people are either directed or cowed into not saying 'Merry Christmas,' something is afoot. Whether 'war' is the right term or not is beside the point. December 25th is not an aritrary day; no one is fooled as to what it is. Even the non-Christians are aware.

[wareagle]

arbitrary

[Sevo]

"December 25th is not an aritrary day;"

It is arbitrary.
There is no evidence of a Jesus at all, so there is no evidence of a birth on 12/25.
There is a TON of evidence of xian bleevers co-opting the solstice celebrations in order to gain converts to the 'new' religion.

[Tony]

The only people who give a shit about this are people who want to flaunt their Alpha Religion in front of Jews and Muslims. You people have gone far beyond caring about PC overreach to endorsing appalling rudeness.

[Hank Phillips]

I have had several judges try to cow me into adding "so help me Ghawd" at work in courts. The point is that the Constitution forbids a religious test for office--even for an officer of the court. A slightly different version of trendy volkish camaraderie became stylish in Christian National Socialist Germany's "People's Courts." But that can't happen here, right?

[Incomprehensible Bitching]

Fuck you.

There is a War on Christmas.

Which side are you on, buddy?

The SJWs, or the Shitlordz?

If you're not with us, you're against us, Christian Shariah.

[chemjeff]

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Merry Festivus, Happy Kwanzaa, and Happy Holidays to all of the Reason crew!

[Palin's Buttplug]

Seconded. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Merry Festivus, Happy Kwanzaa, and Happy Holidays to all the Peanuts!

[Sevo]

Fuck you, turd.

[Hank Phillips]

To all the Reason crew, Boas Festas! (Party Hardy, as is said in Brazil)

[DajjaI]

Blessed and Bright Christmas Wishes to my Darling Drumpfenc?cken.

[Red Tony]

Merry Christmas, y'all.

[Incomprehensible Bitching]

May all your Christmases be white cisgendered heterosexual, SHITLORDZ!!!!!111!!!!!

SHIT FUCK BALLZZZZ!

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[Domestic Dissident]

No morning links thread on the Friday before Christmas and a perfectly on time morning links thread on Christmas day just so that our resident Saul Alinsky army can tell normal Americans how much they suck is like the most perfect D.C. Reason-y thing ever.

[Conchfritters]

What in the hell is going on down there?

[Domestic Dissident]

No links today either.

This is so obviously Welch's little gang of Alinsky/Obama lovers' way of giving the middle finger to the normies. I'm sure they think it's absolutely hilarious, but all it does is just expose them for what they really are even more.

[Rhywun]

Enlighten us - what does the lack of a Tuesday morning links posted at their leisure "expose them as"?

[Rufus The Monocled]

I just realized that. I started making some comments and then noticed it was the 25th!

[Rhywun]

Looks like this is it. C'mon guys, I'm sitting here at work with nothing to do.