Donald Trump

Remember That Time Trump Said 'Get Out of Afghanistan'? Neither Does He.

The president's latest flip-flop is total and appalling. Will it finally alienate his base?

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As Matt Welch and Ed Krayewski have noted, President Donald Trump's plans for a United States military presence in Afghanistan aren't just secretive and undefined.

They represent a total reversal of earlier statements condemning America's longest war for its utter lack of effectiveness and unconscionable loss of life and gigantic waste of money. To date, over 2,400 U.S. military have died in the war in Afghanistan and estimates of the cost run between $840 billion and $2 trillion.

"Let's get with it," Citizen Trump said in 2012 at a video blog he used to promote The Apprentice. "Get out of Afghanistan. We've wasted billions and billions of dollars and, more important, thousands and thousands of lives—not to mention all of these young men and women who come home and they really have problems."

Whether you agree with Antiwar.com's Eric Garris (who dug up the video above) that "the War Party got to him" once he became president or believe that he was never really a non-interventionist, the switch in positions is stunning. Here's a 2013 tweet:

In October 2015, he declared that occupying Afghanistan was a "terrible mistake" but he took it all back last night, saying

My original instinct was to pull out, and historically I like following my instincts. But all my life, I have heard that decisions are much different when you sit behind the desk in the Oval Office. In other words, when you are president of the United States….the consequences of a rapid exit are both predictable and unacceptable. 9/11, the worst terrorist attack in our history, was planned and directed from Afghanistan because that country was ruled by a government that gave comfort and shelter to terrorists. A hasty withdrawal would create a vacuum that terrorists, including ISIS and al Qaeda, would instantly fill, just as happened before September 11. And as we know, in 2011, America hastily and mistakenly withdrew from Iraq.

While Trump explicitly ruled out "nation building," it's unclear what sort of strategy follows from his adamant refusal to beat a "rapid exit" or "hasty withdrawal." Indeed, he seems to be laying the groundwork for a permanent presence. As troubling as that is his characterization of the U.S. withdrawal from Iraq, which was negotiated by George W. Bush and implemented by the Obama administration only after attempts to extend our military presence were rebuffed by the Iraqi government we helped install. The collapse of Iraq after the U.S. exit is a sure sign that the war effort there was a fool's errand, not an argument for our staying there longer.

The president did not lay out any clear markers or guideposts that might conceivable trigger the removal of American troops from Afghanistan. Rather, he stressed an ongoing need for the U.S. military to "stop the resurgence of safe havens" for terrorists everywhere in the world and the need to keep terrorists from obtaining nuclear weapons. Both of those goals suggest not just a permanent presence in Afghanistan but elsewhere throughout the world.

Trump also dished up a familiar mix of self-pity, humblebragging, and good, old-fashioned bullshit to explain (sort of) his strategy in Afghanistan:

I was given a bad and very complex hand, but I fully knew what I was getting into. Big and intricate problems. But one way or another, these problems will be solved. I am a problem solver. And in the end, we will win. We must address the reality of the world as it exists right now, the threats we face, and the confronting of all of the problems of today, an extremely predictable consequences of a hasty withdrawal….

We will not talk about numbers of troops or our plans for further military activities. Conditions on the ground, not arbitrary timetables, will guide our strategy from now on. America's enemies must never know our plans or believe they can wait us out. I will not say when we are going to attack, but attack we will.

Go here for full text and video of Trump's remarks. Reading through the speech, it's hard not to conclude, as Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) did in a statement, that the president "knows this war is over" but that he simply doesn't "have the guts to end it for real, on his watch."

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  1. As long as the left and the media keep acting like 2-year-olds, there are very few things he can do to screw his reputation with his base. Amnesty might do it, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him do it.

    1. Only Nixon could go to China and only Trump could do amnesty.

      Not that the contributors here could ever figure out how to make the best of Trump. Too many allegiances to maintain.

      1. Reagan did amnesty. Didn’t work.

        1. If you think I’m saying amnesty is a good idea then you are grossly missing my point.

  2. Give an anti-gun proggie a free trip to a gun range he will have a blast, despite himself.

    Imagine what happens when someone becomes President.

  3. Too bad he flip flopped. I will give him credit for not doing what a lot of politicians do: pretending that their present stance is the same stance they’ve always held.

  4. OMG, a criticism of The Donald that’s based on actual facts and a comparison of campaign promises to policy changes made by the commander in chief. Good job, Reason, keep it up. See, there’s plenty to criticize without letting TDS get the better of you. I knew you had it in ya’.

    1. Follow the link about the October 15 speech during the campaign. Nick is mischaracterizing it. Trump actually said

      that U.S. troops would likely have to stay because “that thing will collapse in about two seconds after they leave.”

      TDS, still going strong.

      1. That collapse is going to happen now irrespective of whether the US stays in Afghanistan or goes. All he can do is delay that outcome. Afghanistan is not called the graveyard of empires for nothing!

        If the US could not win the war with over 100,000 troops in the place how can Trump expect to win with less?

        What Trump is effectively doing is throwing MORE billions of US taxpayer $$$ at Afghanistan and setting fire to it.

        What he SHOULD have done was get out and let the place collapse. That would have forced the Afghanis to do something themselves instead of relying upon others.

        1. “What he SHOULD have done was get out and let the place collapse. ”

          What? And let somebody else pocket his share of the heroin takings?

        2. That may all turn out to be true. That doesn’t change the fact that Nick is Fake News.

          1. This screed from Nick is starting to sound more like Don Lemon…

            I was very pleased to hear Trump say that he’s NOT going to set “a firm date for withdrawal” like the previous Asshole-In-Chief did. Obama committed one of the gravest sins in military strategy with that fucking stupid “plan” and it seems that Nick’s forgotten it or run it through his selective anti-Trump filter.

            I’m not a conservative OR a liberal OR democrat OR republican, and I (and even my liberal wife) found little to complain about in Trump’s Afghanistan (… etc.,) speech. To me, the funniest part was when Don Lemon came on the screen immediately after Trump blessed us all and finished and ran through his complete Thesaurus of anti-Trump insulting labels and insults. Stupidity meets hilarious. A parody of himself.

            ah, whatever… Nick is Always Right, right? What I consider the mark of a Cult Member….

  5. Somehow Obama is responsible for all this after he reduced troop levels by 93% in Iraq and Afghanistan from those of his predecessors.

    1. “all this”

      All what, exactly?

      1. The Con Man said so himself. By Obama pulling out of Iraq in 2011 tribal factions began fighting each other again (just like they have for centuries).

        Therefore the Con Man HAD to put 4000 more troops in Afghanistan.

        Its Trump/Wingnut logic, you fool. You can’t doubt him.

        1. Relax, dickhead. No one is talking to you. Robes made a comment about a multi-faceted article by referencing “all this”.
          I was hoping he’d reply and don’t give a fuck about your interpretation.

          By the way, what are your thoughts on the antifa movement? I’ve asked you several times. Interested in what a pure libertarian thinks.

          1. I’m Bill of Rights/ACLU all the way. The Neo-Nazis and antifa have full Constitutional rights to free speech and assembly.

            I won’t be there for either cause.

            1. You don’t know I’m referring to Antifa’s tactics of initiating violence against persons and property to intimidate and stifle? You really don’t?
              You support Antifa?

              1. Never heard that. Please cite reputable source – NY Times, WaPost, Wall St Journal, etc.

                Not Wingnut.com.

                1. Lying shithead disrobes in public. Puke freely.

                2. Mr. Team Blue libertarian purist can’t bring himself to condemn a group that explicitly calls for violence to silence free speech. Claims to have never heard of ‘bash the fash’ and is unaware of riots to shut down speakers at various colleges.

                3. The first two as credible sources is hanging by a thread.

                4. @ PB

                  I think an NYT reporter tweeted from Charlottesville that she had seen a couple of Antifa thugs charging and beating one of the UTR thugs without provocation.

                  And the events at Middlebury are well documented.

                  1. Once again (about 5 days running), Shreek will exit the forum without condemning Antifa. *poof*.

                    Gosh, he’s such a libertarian purist. I heard he’s the only one here. *poof*

                    1. without condemning Antifa

                      For what? Where is that link or proof?

                      Trump lies don’t count.

                    2. without condemning Antifa

                      Did one of your Neo-Nazi pals get pushed by a tranny?

                    3. “For what? ”

                      Everything you need to know about Shreek. Pretends Antifa was born 5 minutes before C-ville.
                      100% liar.
                      Cannot denounce violence against free speech.
                      Pure Team Progressive.

  6. We have no end game there. GTFO. STFO. Leave them alone. Leave us alone.

    1. Who will guard the opium crops if US soldiers don’t?

      1. We don’t even get that heroin here. The rest of the world gets high quality Afghani heroin and they’re not all dying from fentanyl overdoses.

        1. Afghan Heroin. Afghani is a unit of currency, as in ‘that truck load of goat dung must have set you back a couple hundred afghani.’

  7. In October 2015, he declared that occupying Afghanistan was a “terrible mistake” but he took it all back last night

    #FakeNews

    Reason is increasingly embarrassing for anything about Trump. They just lie. It’s like reading CNN.com

    Follow the link that The Jacket put in that sentence, and you find:

    And it was one that Trump continued on the campaign trail once he decided to run for the White House, saying in October 2015 that invading Afghanistan was a “terrible mistake” ? while also saying that “it’s a mess” and that U.S. troops would likely have to stay because “that thing will collapse in about two seconds after they leave.”

    So, what he said here, in the campaign, is his policy – can’t leave or it will be a disaster, which The Jacket instead characterizes as “took it all back last night”.

    As someone who actually supports Trump, instead of Trump haters and their crocodile tears over Trump supporters being betrayed, I wasn’t surprised at all by the decision to stay.

    Trump talked about destroying ISIS during the campaign. He doesn’t have an aversion to military force to destroy our enemies. But we’re not nation building. We’re not bringing the sword to the world for a democratic revolution.

    ISIS, Syrian chemical weapons, Taliban, all predictable and consistent with his policy positions during the campaign. I’m sorry that TDS makes you unable to comprehend that, but that isn’t Trump’s fault.

    1. How can a failed state collapse though?

      1. Libya is currently terrible, but still a far cry from Somalia.

    2. ” I wasn’t surprised at all by the decision to stay.”

      ‘The’ decision to stay? Not Trump’s decision to stay. I think you are correct. Trump probably has as much say in what the military does as Obama did. ie not much.

  8. I don’t really have a problem with us staying in Afghanistan as long as the Mexicans are paying for it. The Mexicans *are* paying for the war, aren’t they? I know the Mexicans are paying for something.

    1. Overpriced phone service mainly.

  9. No one ever doubted Trump was a card-carrying pragmatist, did they? What they may have forgotten is the defining trait of pragmatists is fluidity, usually based in subjectivism.

    What surprised me was how Trump so willingly admitted to being awed and changed by the responsibilities of the Oval Office. He effectively admitted that Obama, et al. were right all along: walk a mile in my shoes before you pound your chest.

    Trump was always given a pass for being loud, showy, uncouth, whatever, because the things he pushed hard on during the campaign made sense to a vast number of people. Now his mercurial personality is chipping away at even those positions. He’s made virtue out of necessity. and it ain’t pretty.

    But the GOP old guard, the Never Trumpers are smiling again. They know they’ve got partial capture on this guy.

  10. One hour countdown to the Unite the Right Rally in Nuremberg/Phoenix!

    1. The President of Team Blue is in da house.

      Did Howard Dean text you that verbatim?

    2. Hey, since you’re here, what are your thoughts on Antifa? Pro or Con?

  11. Invading and occupying a Muslim-majority nation is the second-fastest way to create a terrorist safe haven.

    Withdrawing from one you already invaded is the fastest.

    We have a responsibility, to our citizens and to the people of these countries, to not leave failed-state vacuums that Al Qaeda, ISIS, and the rest can fill. The idea that they won’t immediately begin using them as bases for new attacks on the West is absurd at this point: argue that we “provoked” the Muslim world into launching attacks against us if you want, it doesn’t change the fact that they are not going to stop now. It is equally absurd to argue that Taliban hegemony is preferable to NATO occupation for the citizens of these countries, even if the difference in quality of life is marginal.

    That Gillespie can bring up Iraq as (an attempt at) a counteragument is truly hilarious: it was a classic example of two wrongs *not* making a right. Trump is a douche, but he is a perceptive and well-informed douche on this issue, and I support his decision 100%.

    My view of our foreign policy is very simple:

    Let’s not invade any more Muslim countries. Let’s ALSO not abandon the ones we already did.

    1. Telcontar the Wanderer: “Let’s ALSO not abandon the ones we already did.

      So just how many more years should the US stay? 10? 20? 50? 100?

      Am I getting close?

      1. 69. It’s always 69.

      2. It took 50 years to defeat the FARC in Colombia.

        Same with the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka.

        50 – 16 = 34

        So, 12,000 US troops, plus some NATO tag-alongs and air support, for 34 years. 25 to 50 deaths and 40 billion a year. I’m willing to say it.

        And why? To keep Afghanistan from going to Somalia level terrorist-haven status, *slowly* (very slowly) inculcating (some semblance of) liberal democratic norms in the populace, and- perhaps more importantly- denying Russia or China the chance to seize that trillion-with-a-T in mineral wealth. Because if you think China couldn’t extract those minerals in spite of insurgent resistance, you don’t know the CCP very well.

        Like I said: if you think Afghanistan is a terrorist haven now, just wait until you see how bad it gets if/when we bug out.

        Oh, and PS: my dad deployed to the Middle East 5 times. I saw my mom crying when she thought I wasn’t looking more times than I can count, and he was barely around when I was a kid. So don’t go thinking I’m somehow casual about what continuing the war means. But it is the best of a panoply of bad options.

    2. “Let’s not invade any more Muslim countries. ”

      What about Iran? That’s a Muslim country and the number one source of terrorism on the planet today. They would welcome imperial occupation with the same enthusiasm that the US troops in Afghanistan have met with. They will sleep soundly at night knowing like the Germans and Brits, the empire will never abandon them.

      1. US Out Of Strawmanland

  12. Trump on the drug war 27 years ago

    http://www.ocregister.com/arti…..-joke.html

  13. Meet the old boss, etc, etc. I’d argue we won in Afghanistan a long time ago, but we keep using a definition of victory that keeps delaying our departure indefinitely. It’s never been a lynchpin of winning the “War on Terror”, but just the most visible symbol of it. No one wants to leave for fear of that country reverting back to what it’s always been. Afghanistan is a corrupt, tribal, and unstable nation, and just maybe you can’t change who you really are. But real change, if it ever happens, can only come from within. No one wants to be Mikhail Gorbachev, who finally had to admit that the USSR had been there too long, and they all learned the same wrong lessons from history. So we use the same metrics, the same tricks, and say to anyone who still believes that this time will be different. Symbols mixed with fear, ignorance, and politics usually leads us down the wrong road until it’s benefits someone to say enough. Since wisdom and courage are in short supply, the last person to die in Afghanistan will likely be someone who wasn’t even born on 9/11, and only learned about it in history class.

    1. Punitive expedition and get out. How did we screw that up?

      1. “Punitive expedition and get out. How did we screw that up?”

        Getting out was never part of the plan. You do know, I hope, that there are US troops still in Germany, Japan, and even Britain. US gets out when it’s thrown out, like the good folks of Vietnam showed us.

  14. Nick’s rhetorical question headline doesn’t make sense.

    Saying “neither does he” implies we the audience answered “no” to the “Remember when…” portion.

    If the general population answers “no”, that implies Trump never actually said it.

  15. Libertarian magician Penn Jillette, appearing on HBO’s Real Time With Bill Maher tonight, had nothing good to say about his old TV near-boss Donald Trump. “I know Donald Trump,” said Jillette, a 2012 Celebrity Apprentice contestant, “and whatever you think about Donald Trump, he’s worse than that.”

    http://deadline.com/2017/08/re…..202151984/

    1. Says exactly what I have been saying:

      “The only good thing about Donald Trump is he’s getting really nothing done,” Jillette offered. “He’s said horrible things and filling people with hate, but he’s not getting much done and that is actually good news. If he knew what he was doing he’d be terrible.”

      Luckily, the Con Man is completely inept.

      1. If only other politicians were so blessed with incompetence.

    2. Is this supposed to be earth-shaking? Keep in mind that the only person more pathetic than Trump is you. A Team Blue hack who claims to not be on a team. A so-called libertarian purist who worships statists. Don’t crawl back to your mother’s basement, she’s suffered enough.

      1. Uh, can you keep Jr. busy for a bit longer? The basement is still in use.

  16. How can Trump alienate his base so long as the media keeps condemning him for being just as magnificently unsophisticated and unacceptable as his base?

    As soon as the left and their cheerleaders in the media stop hating on the white, blue collar, middle class–for being white, blue collar, and middle class–then maybe his base will stop thinking he’s their champion. It’s hard to get to that point, however, when the media is constantly blasting Trump in the same terms they use to smear middle America.

    The media will come to see themselves as the hideous monsters Trump’s base see them as before Trump alienates his base.

    If the media stopped demonizing Trump for a few weeks, Trump’s approval might drop like a rock with his base. Remember, however, Trump’s base laughed off allegations of rape and apparent confessions of pussy grabbing. Why would Afghanistan make any difference?

    I should restate that. Trump didn’t win in spite of being accused by the media of everything from brownshirt tactics at his rallies to pussy grabbing. Trump won because of being accused by the media of everything from . . .

    See if the media can find a way not to call him a Nazi for a few weeks, and then maybe his base will start thinking about Afghanistan.

    1. Why is it so important what his base thinks, so important that the media has to walk on egg shells? What is this obsession? Trump promises to send 1000s more Americans to get their balls blown off and all you can do is wring your hands over what CNN says about Trump. Media and presidents love a good war, and those Afghans haven’t let us down yet.

      1. “Why is it so important what his base thinks”

        Ok, that’s just plain funny.

        1. I really don’t think the folks who made this Afghan position gives a toss about the feelings of Trump’s base. Why do you care? If you don’t like what CNN says about Trump, don’t watch it.

  17. Oh for fuck sake-I have a bridge to sell the next person who believes it when a president from either party promises to de-escalate any military conflict.

    1. I tend to agree with the assessment that Afghanistan will ‘collapse’ (ie. go from worse to worser) as soon as we leave.

      Which, practically speaking, means that Afghanistan will get worse at a time of ‘our’ (ie. POTUS’) choosing.

      Which effectively means that every POTUS will decide that Afghanistan will get worse when the next guy takes over.

      Much like when the Korean reunification will occur.

  18. Look at the Team Red Trump shills. Back when Obama flew a couple F-16s over Libya you couldn’t get a word in edgewise between whether Obama was a warmongering fascist or a totalitarian ISIS supporter of radical Islam. Now that Trump is sending more troops to Afghanistan you don’t hear a peep from supposed libertarians.

    I’ve been against having US troops in Afghanistan from Day 1. I didn’t like the war when Bush started it, when Obama escalated it, or when Dear Leader continued it. For fuck’s sake take note from my example and get a fucking clue, first, and then principles that aren’t related to who is in the WH.

    1. Plenty of criticism of Trump in these comments and every day here.

      What you think is defense of Trump is not defense of him, it is criticism of REASON’s fake libertarianism and ridicule of pants-shitting.

      1. I don’t see opposing a 16-year old war as “fake libertarianism”

        Why is it every time Trump does something appalling the only thing you can do is criticize the perfectly appropriate reactions that his policies would engender as “pants shitting”

        1. 1. Very few people here support Trump’s new A-stan policy, so put your red herring away.

          2. The disdain for REASON is wide-spread, long-growing, and well justified. Did you think it just appeared today?

          3. Trump is appalling. The hyper-offended reactions and dishonest reporting is also appalling.

          4. My problem with Buttplug has nothing to do with you. He claims to be a pure libertarian but cannot codemn an organization (Antifa) that explicitly endorses and uses violence to deny free speech to others. Do you want to climb into Shreek’s bed?

          1. Tom Bombadil: “The disdain for REASON is wide-spread, long-growing, and well justified.”

            Then why are you here reading it if you disdain it so much?

            1. I remember a better time and hope it will return. It’s possible I will eventually fly to Galt’s Gulch.
              Any more questions? I do feel it’s important that I answer to you.

            2. Love it or leave it, eh Stephen?

      2. BTW, what is your sick obsession with antifa upthread. You look ridiculous.

  19. So, less libertarian than Rand Paul, Mike Lee, Lyin’ Ted?, and some jackalope to be named later?

  20. Nick is under the delusion that the average Trump voter wants a pullout from Afghanistan. Maybe *Nick* does, and maybe he’s right to want it, but the issues during the campaign were, in no particular order:

    1. We hate Hillary.
    2. Stop illegal immigration.
    3. We hate Hillary.
    4. Put up trade barriers.
    5. We hate Hillary.
    6. Stop kissing up to the Social Justice folks.
    7. By the way, we hate Hillary.

    1. The “average Trump voter” likes a pullout from Afghanistan. The problem is a large subset of that average is fine with a “let’s quit fucking around and finally kill all the bad motherfuckers in Afghanistan before we leave”. What they don’t understand is that path isn’t the option on offer.

      1. “The “average Trump voter” likes a pullout from Afghanistan.”

        The fact is that most Trump voters are below average, and it doesn’t matter a toss what they like or dislike. Afghanistan is a fine place for these troops.

  21. Trump is a perfect post-modernist, constructing reality on the wing.

  22. or believe that he was never really a non-interventionist,

    Simply saying that a particular war is stupid, has no strategic value, and should be ended, does not make one a “Non-interventionist”, any more than occasionally ordering a salad makes one a vegan. constantly reducing foreign policy decisions to this “interventionist/non-interventionist” false-choice makes libertarians sound stupid and naive.

    I am disappointed trump hasn’t been consistent delivering on his FP campaign rhetoric, but i’m not going to assume this current move is necessarily one-dimensional.

    analysis offered elsewhere suggested that the Afghan opposition (they’re not all “Taliban”; more a coalition of pashtun rebels) has assumed that US presence has been winding down since 2014 and all they need to do is wait to retake the country. the recent return of Gulbeddin Hekmatyar is significant because it basically shows the opposition that “one of theirs” can be legitimized and make peace with the current govt. They may (*unlikely, but possibly) see a reversal of US drawdowns/threat of renewed military action as a prod to negotiate some sort of power-sharing agreement with that govt.

    I’m being less cynical when maybe i shouldn’t be, but its probably more useful than just moaning that Trump is fulfilling worst expectations.

    1. constantly reducing foreign policy decisions to this “interventionist/non-interventionist” false-choice makes libertarians sound stupid and naive

      This needs to be said more often. Most people are neither pro- or anti-intervention in a general sense. They decide on a case by case basis whether a given proposed intervention is morally justified and worth the risk and cost, with the threshold varying from person to person. But in the eyes of some libertarians, you’re either a mental Xerox of Sheldon Richman, or you’re a “warmonger.”

    2. I think you put too much stock in the current government of Afghanistan. As I understand, it is a puppet of the US and would collapse without the billions of $US and troops etc.

  23. Wow, Reason has a legit hate Trump article !!! For a while I just thought they went full whacko lib. Yes, this is a bad choice. If the men of Afghanistan don’t want to fight for their country, neither should we. Just ban immigration from the country and be done with it.

  24. While Trump explicitly ruled out “nation building”…

    If someone with an army isn’t in the nation BUILDING business that suggests they must be in the nation DEMOLITION business.

    1. How many nations have armies? Gosh you’re so clever.

      1. There are around 20+ nations without an army, admittedly all of them small or mostly small ones like Iceland, Costa Rica, Haiti, and Grenada.

  25. Trump vs Trump.

    There can only be one winner.

  26. If you consult with generals, are you going to be advised against the use of force?

    1. You think that attorneys always advise filing suit as well, don’t you?

  27. What’s up, Nick? Can’t you get anything right about what happened on the past?

    “As troubling as that is his characterization of the U.S. withdrawal from Iraq, which was negotiated by George W. Bush and implemented by the Obama administration only after attempts to extend our military presence were rebuffed by the Iraqi government we helped install.”

    What George Bush negotiaged with President Maliki was a PHASED WITHDRAWL and a STATUS OF FORCES AGREEMENT that CANDIDATE OBAMA torpoeded in 2008 when he met with Maliki and proceeded to violate the Logan Act by imploring Maliki to not make any agreements with Bush because he was leaving office and Obama was going to be the next President (as if anyone doubted it).

    Obama was 100% responsible for the vacuum created in Iraq when, to ensure his re-election in 2012, he promised to “Bring home all of the troops in Afghanistan by Christmas” in an October 2011 speech to the nation.

    And when ISIS was beginning its rampage across Iraq, who can forget how Obama dismissed them as the “JV team.”

    It was also Obama who kept the Afghan War going by sending in more troops but severely handicapping them with insane and deadly “Rules of Engagement” like not being able to shoot at the enemy until he shoots first, avoiding engaging the enemy if they were holed up in mosques and, my favorite, not to risk killing any civilians.

    Ovomit killed thousands of civilians by way of his secret drone war which tallied civilian deaths as enemy casualties.

    1. I made a typo,. “Bring home all of the troops in Afghanistan by Christmas” should have been,

      “Bring home all of the troops in IRAQ by Christmas”

      Sorry for the confusion.

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