Attack in Barcelona Kills 13, Settlement Over CIA Torture Methods, Massive Lottery Jackpot Grows: P.M. Links

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  • Barcelona
    Quique Garcia/EFE/Newscom

    A van driven at high speed crashed into a crowd of people in a tourist-filled part of Barcelona. Police believe it was a terrorist attack. Details remain very sketchy. Casualty numbers vary, but the most recent numbers have an official claiming 13 dead, 50 injured. One suspect is in custody. Police have released a picture of the suspect, who is being identified as Driss Oukabir, in his 20s, born in Morocco, according to local media. The Islamic State (ISIS) is claiming responsibility for the attack.

  • The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has reached a settlement with two psychologists involved in the development of the interrogation/torture techniques the CIA used during the war on terror. The details of the settlement were not released.
  • President Donald Trump this morning decided on Twitter to come to the defense of maintaining Confederate statues and monuments. A poll shows that most citizens actually don't want them to be removed.
  • After insisting on the importance of preserving history, Trump then tweeted this:

But there's no evidence Pershing actually fought Muslim terrorists in the manner that Trump believes.

  • A state court spokesperson in New York was fired after he accidentally butt-dialed a reporter and was recorded admitting on voicemail that he barely shows up for work at his six-figure-salary government job.
  • The family of the young man arrested and accused of a bomb plot in Oklahoma say Jerry Drake Varnell, 23, is schizophrenic and the FBI knew this when they orchestrated a sting to catch him.
  • If all the other news is making you miserable, go buy lottery tickets. Nobody won the last night's Powerball jackpot, so it's up to at least $510 million.

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  1. The Islamic State (ISIS) is claiming responsibility for the attack.

    I guess they know a good PR opportunity?

    1. Hello.

      Re Barca. What? You mean it wasn’t a white supremacist?

      /snaps finger

    2. Why isn’t Trump concerning this attack. It figures that he supports ISIS.

      1. If Obama had a son, he’d look like Driss.

    3. Viserion is dead, killed by the Night King. Then reanimated by him.

      1. Dude, nobody cares anymore. That show went downhill after the third season and to complete shit by season 5.

  2. Study what General Pershing of the United States did to terrorists when caught.

    Oh boy.

    1. He’s probably confusing it with the Mexican expedition that Pershing led against Pancho Villa. Either that or he’s just Trump.

      1. Pancho Villa was Muslim. Fact. So was Hitler.

    2. In the Philippines, Pershing is said to have dipped bullets in pig blood but said in his memoirs that he buried pigs with muslim fighters that were killed. Muslims have a Koran thing about “unclean animals” like pigs, of course.

      1. None of which stopped the Muslim fighters so . . .

  3. But there’s no evidence Pershing actually fought Muslim terrorists in the manner that Trump believes.

    Evidence? When has the Con Man ever needed evidence. To hell with evidence. Evidence is for pointy-headed liberals.

    1. Where’s the evidence that you paid your bet.

      1. Get real, Reality.

        1. I know, I know, evidence is for pointy headed liberals.

    2. Unless it hurts woman programmers’ feelings.

    3. Pershing put the bit about burying pigs with muslim fighters in his memoirs.

      If you called Pershing a liar he probably would have beat to an inch of your life, so its very likely true.

  4. A state court spokesperson in New York was fired after he accidentally butt-dialed a reporter and was recorded admitting on voicemail that he barely shows up for work at his six-figure-salary government job.

    But when he did make a statement it was impactful.

    1. Good work if you can get it.

      1. Unfortunately you have to be buddies with Cuomo or Deblasio.

        1. The kind of buddy that gives them a fat envelope every month or so.

  5. Leave it to old fashioned Islamic terrorism to remind us what “actual problems” look like.

  6. “The Islamic State (ISIS) is claiming responsibility for the attack.”

    We may never know the motive.

    After six days of fretting about two hundred wannabe Nazis its going to be fun reading the articles saying “Islamic terrorism is not that big of a threat”

    1. In Europe, Islamic terrorism is a moderatly significant threat. In the US, it’s a pretty small threat. White supremacists in the US are a close to nonexistent threat to anything.

      No, it’s not going to be fun. I may have to tune out from the news for a while. This week has been just too much idiocy.

    2. Remember, Robert E. Lee is utterly intolerable and must be erased, but these barbaric Islamonazis are a precious commodity we can’t keep out of the country according to the Mofobama leftard scum.

      1. Why don’t you go find some leftard scum who actually believe that to bark at?

      2. Get with the Libertarian position, you dumbass. Obama relentlessly droned/killed the Islamo-Fascists.

        1. And a few hundred or thousand or so innocent folk, too.

          1. But his heart was in the right place.

            1. But I thought reptilians have their heart on the other side of their chest.

            2. And boy, did he sound great reading the teleprompter.

              -jcr

          2. Without trial.

        2. Totally irrelevant to my point, Dickface Dave.

          1. Whoa, Mikey has increased his arsenal of insults to three.

            1. is it an insult if i can’t tell where it’s directed?

  7. Varnell “has suffered through countless serious full-blown schizophrenic delusional episodes and he has been put in numerous mental hospitals since he was 16 years old,” the family’s statement said. It added that his parents are his legal guardians and do all they can “to keep him safe and functional.”

    So that’s what happened to Sevo.

    1. A burn so savage it could star as the gay best friend and literary agent to yet another of Keegan-Michael Key’s lovable fumbling artist characters.

      1. This is too detailed to disagree with.

        1. Fred Savage

  8. …Jerry Drake Varnell, 23, is schizophrenic and the FBI knew this when they orchestrated a sting to catch him.

    Barrel fish are the easiest targets.

      1. It may have been the only way they could get him the help he needs.

        1. Perhaps it was a “win-win situation” from the standpoint of the F.B.I. agents involved in the case. Varnell gets 24 hour protection from himself and the agency gets another statistic to show evidence why they need more funding to keep The Homeland ? safe again.

  9. Is it even a real Muslim belief that if someone else kills you and buries you with some pig parts that you can’t get into heaven? I find that hard to believe. But then again, I find people’s belief in a lot of goofy superstitions hard to believe, yet people believe some goofy shit.

    1. people believe some goofy shit

      Boy howdy, do they.

    2. I doubt it. The president does have some bigoted and moronic beliefs. I’m not sure if this is motivated by animus or just ignorance.

      1. Everybody loves that apocryphal story about Black Jack Pershing. It’s like George Washington and the cherry tree only infinitely more bad ass.

        1. I know when my kids ask me to tell them a bedtime story, they always ask for the ones about the American generals who committed the biggest war crimes.

          1. Takes bastards to stop muslim terrorist bastards.

      2. Why choose? Both animus and ignorance are not only possible but likely.

    3. It is believed by some Muslims, but not by all. Sort of like how some Christians (a very, very small minority) believe you will go to Hell if you practice the Sabbath on Sunday instead of Saturday.

      My understanding is that the “mainstream” attitude of Islam is that God is not that big of a dick, and good-faith efforts to comply with the Law are just fine.

    4. I choose to believe that all pigs go to heaven.

      1. Preferably through my GI tract.

      2. Only if they fly out of an ass.

  10. Earth science teacher, 38, arrested on ‘multiple sex charges’ with her underage student

    Bonkoski allegedly became “obsessed” with a 16-year-old student and used a “burner phone,” or a prepaid phone, to talk to him.

    “Whatever you do, please don’t shut me out,” Bonkoski texted the student in March, according to the Daily Local. “I’m begging you.”

    Bonkoski told a Pennsylvania State Trooper that she “thought she was being smart” to use a burner phone so officials could not trace it back to her

    1. We need much more legislation against burner phones.

    2. Sounds more like something that should have been left up to the life science teacher.

      1. I was really disappointed when I found out what sex-ed was really all about. Talk about false advertising.

    3. Bonkoski

      Seems to me she had no choice.

    4. Not up to par for the usual Crusty horny female teacher banging teenage boys story.

    5. Bonkoski? I’m guessing her nickname with the kids was “Ms. Bonk.”

    6. I thought the age of consent in Pennsylvania is 16. Unless you are related, in which case it is 13.

      1. Lots of states have different rules for teachers when it comes to sex with students.

        1. knowing for a friend.

  11. If all the other news is making you miserable, go buy lottery tickets. Nobody won the last night’s Powerball jackpot, so it’s up to at least $510 million.

    I keep spending that money on booze instead. I think I have a drinking problem.

    1. After reading that Scott had written go buy lottery tickets I expected the first response to be “Don’t you tell me what to do” (or the equivalent).

      I think the $1 booze is not good for you. Go buy a lottery ticket.

      *snickers*

      Or go buy a snickers bar.

      *snickers*

      What is NLP again?

      1. Natural Language Processing?

      2. Power Ball is two dollars.

      3. Neuro-linguistic programming?

    2. My drinking isn’t a problem; it’s a solution

      1. Someday I’ll go to Bisbee and stalk Doug.

      2. It is an investment. Bottles and cans can be redeemed for cash.

        1. Plus, your family can your other organs on the black market after you die of cirrhosis of the liver.

  12. The details of the settlement were not released.

    I bit a little waterboarding will get those deets.

    1. bit

      All or nothing I take it?

        1. Fist never goes for the but.

          1. Can you shake fist at but?

  13. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has reached a settlement with two psychologists involved in the development of the interrogation/torture techniques the CIA used during the war on terror. The details of the settlement were not released.

    This seems… vague. Like it’s not entirely clear that the ACLU wasn’t developing torture techniques for the CIA.

    1. We can only assume that means that they were.

  14. Sex doll fans keep asking for ‘bots that look just like this one iconic celebrity

    “Marilyn comes up quite often. The caveat is we need the approval of the person or family.

    “If you wanted a robot that looked like Marilyn Monroe, you would have to have her estate approve it.”

    Get on that, Monroe family.

    1. Fuck Marilyn Monroe right in her rubbery ass.

      1. Crusty asked for a Lena doll, of course.

        1. She cost extra, because of, you know, the extra material.

        2. Future Linx post:

          H&R commenter Crusty Juggler was crushed to death by the dead weight of his incredibly realistic Lena Dunham Real Doll while apparently attempting to 69 with it. Our condolences go out to his mom who found him like that in the small cramped bedroom in her basement that he lived in.”

          1. In lieu of flowers, the family has asked people to make donations to his mom’s Richard Simmons rubbery doll GoFundMe account.

    2. Is that true?

      If so, do people’s likenesses ever enter the public domain?

      In any case, how would they know it’s not a sex doll of someone else named Marilyn Monroe who looked a lot like the famous one?

      1. Yeah, this seemed like there are lots of easy loopholes.

        Zombie Marilyn Monroe and Marilyn Monroe DD version seem pretty straight forward and un-owned/ownable.

      2. I linked to it, Zeb, so of course it’s true, you dumb shit.

        Get it together.

      3. It may not be a legal mandate, but rather an internal policy designed to avoid the headache of litigation.

        1. That seems likely.

    3. The estate would make billions right off the bat.

    4. just like this one iconic celebrity

      Don’t click on it. Crusty clickbait is the worst, you just get never-ending spam for pet food fetish sites

      1. I did ‘bait the dickens out of these links.

        1. these euphemisms…

      2. I am still getting ads for Kim Jong-Un rompers.

    5. It will just come with the head of Armin Shimerman.

    6. Lucy Liubot.

    7. Did they get Chrissie Hynde’s permission for Roxxxie?

    8. Libertarian author F. Paul Wilson wrote a novel about a clone of Marilyn Monroe. It seems in the future, famous celebrities were cloned to be used in brothels and such. .

      Dydee Town it was called.

      Back when the future seen to be more open about sex, rather than the likely SJW dystopia

    9. “Earlier this week, we revealed how grieving customers have been flocking to order a version of the $9,995.00 (?7,700) doll styled after their dead wives.”

      I read to this point and had to stop because I got too bummed out.

      1. Especially if the wife died in a horrible way. Imagine having a mangled doll to remind you.

  15. Varnell allegedly claimed to embrace the “Three Percenter” ideology, referring to a far-right anti-government group that has rallied against gun control efforts and pledges resistance to the federal government over the infringement of constitutional rights.

    https://goo.gl/BX8BgM

    BUT THERE AIN’T NO RIGHT WING VIOLENCE!

    1. If you read about the case it sounds like federal abuse of someone with a severe mental illness. It’s disgusting.

      1. pledges resistance to the federal government over the infringement of constitutional rights

        Sounds like a far-right wingnut position to me.

        1. Sure, but it sounds like its a guy with a severe mental illness who came on the FBIs radar, so they hooked him up and goaded him to attempt an attack so they could arrest him.

          1. En*sneeze*trapment.

    2. Christ, you even fuck this up.

      1. – signed, Mary Magdalene

  16. From lyrics to legislation: Common comes rapping on California’s Capitol

    In addition to the meeting with Brown aide Nancy McFadden at the Southern California prison in March, Common met with Democratic lawmakers at the Capitol in May to talk about bills that would change California’s bail system and juvenile justice procedures. He’ll be back in Sacramento on Monday, when legislators return from summer recess, holding a free concert outside the Capitol and lobbying politicians inside.

    In Sacramento, Common will be lobbying for two juvenile justice bills. Senate Bill 394 would give juvenile offenders a shot at parole after 25 years in prison, even if they were sentenced to life without the possibility of parole. Senate Bill 395 would require that juveniles consult with an attorney before waiving their Miranda rights and answering questions from authorities.

    1. Assemblyman Jim Cooper, who spent 30 years in law enforcement before politics, said he’s not convinced the bill makes sense. Investigators want to interview suspects as soon as possible, he said, while the details of a crime are still fresh.

      “To actually have an attorney there takes time,” said Cooper, a Democrat from Elk Grove.

      It seems to me that an individual’s rights are secondary to the desires of investigators in Mr. Cooper’s opinion.

  17. A Gary Cohn resignation would ‘crash the markets,’ management guru Jeffrey Sonnenfeld says

    https://www.cnbc.com

    the one person who is not an idiot in the Trump administration

    1. The Goldman Sachs guy is the only one in the administration that you like? Man, the Republicans really are benefiting from how horribly bad the Left is

      1. Cohn is a very bright guy.

        I know, over at Bratfart he is considered a “Soros loving globalist Jew” or something like that. Those fucktards get most everything wrong.

        1. Bratfart Man, I’m just in awe of how you professional writer-types manage your words. Yes sir, your book must be literature!

          Said no one, ever. You’re a shitty hack with an eight year old boy’s imagination.

          1. What does that even mean? Bratfart? At least rethuglican means something. This one is like Drumpf; not even sure why it’s supposed to be insulting. Because it has ‘fart’ in it?

            1. Dipshit’s supposed to be a professional writer and “Bratfart”s the best that he can come up with. Oh, and “con-man” — he loves that one. Uses it repetitively.

              Like I said, 8 year-old boy. Must be migraine-inducing to read a couple of pages’ worth of his writing.

  18. Was Trump confusing Pancho Villa and his gang for Muslims?.

    1. I am sure Trump meant Pershing in the P.I. and the media is sabotaging at every turn.

      I saw the tweet and Trump never said Mexico.

  19. Re Pershing: let’s dig a concentric circle of trenches – starting at Omaha and finishing at our borders – so we can bring the fight to ISIS, the Mexicans, Antifa, the alt-right, and worst of all the Canadians.

    Come get some, pussies.

    1. Come get some, pussies.

      Please tell me that comma was a mistake.

  20. Has Taylor Swift denounced the Barca attackers yet? I hear she’s pretty famous in Spain.

    1. I want to know what Common thinks about it.

    1. The link links to this: Cast And Crew Recall The Making Of Maximum Overdrive

      Actress Laura Harrington recalled being an unlikely lead with star Emilio Estevez. King initially envisioned the character as something of an androgynous tomboy. De Laurentiis put the breaks on that. “He called me into his office and he looked at me and seemed very perplexed about early footage. And then he said, ‘you’re not wearing pants any more in this movie,'” she said. “And the next day, they put me in a short skirt and that was that.”

      #alpha

    2. It’s too bad King’s best stuff was all written when he was in an alcohol/cocaine-fueled daze. I’m glad he got sober, but it says something about an author when he has to be high as a damn kite or piss-drunk to produce interesting writing.

      1. His memoir is really good and I’m pretty sure he was sober when he wrote it

      2. Hey, whatever works.

    3. It has Emilio Estevez, AC/DC, and Stephen King can’t remember making it because he was on so much cocaine at the time. That makes it objectively the best movie by any standard.

      And why isn’t Dreamcatcher on this list?

    4. I haven’t seen most of those, but I’d still put Dreamcatcher in that list. It wasn’t just a bad movie, it was a bad experience, like watching someone kill a beloved pet

      1. Jonesy, Beaver, Henry and Pete reunite for their annual hunting trip at the Hole-in-the-Wall, an isolated lodge in the Jefferson Tract. There, they become caught between an alien invasion and an insane US Army Colonel, Abraham Kurtz. Jonesy and Beaver, who remain at the cabin while Henry and Pete go out for supplies, encounter a disoriented and delirious stranger wandering near the lodge during a blizzard talking about lights in the sky. The victim of an alien abduction, the man grows sicker and dies while sitting on the toilet. An extraterrestrial parasite eats its way out of his body and attacks the two men, killing Beaver. Jonesy inhales the spores of the strange reddish fungus that the stranger and his parasite have spread around the cabin, and an alien entity (“Mr. Gray”) takes over his mind.

        Sheesh.

        1. That summary leaves out the best part: the parasites are called “shitweasels”.

        2. Well that does explain the Tulpa phenomenon…

        3. that book was pretty spectacular.

      2. like watching someone kill a beloved pet

        So… I recommend against Cujo or Pet Semetary on a couple of levels.

    5. 2. Maximum Overdrive

      something needs to burn in protest.

  21. Sad to see the history and culture of our great country being ripped apart with the removal of our beautiful statues and monuments. You…..

    ? Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 17, 2017

    Hey, remember that time Donald Trump destroyed a bunch of historic Art Deco friezes because he didn’t want to wait two weeks for MOMA to remove them from a building in the way of Trump Tower?

    1. Stormy, that has to be the weakest attempt at “whataboutism” ever

      MOMA should have planned ahead. Of course you really can’t equate “failure to delay an expensive construction project so someone else can salvage a decorative architectural feature that doesn’t belong to them” with “Hurr…Durr let my minority of communist assholes desecrate your sacred memorials”

      1. Agreed.

        1. Well, except for the part where allowing the friezes to be salvaged was a part of the deal that allowed Trump to go forward with the project. Not that Trump signing a contract means a damn thing.

            1. Mother Jones, Huh?

              Never cared for tabloids.

  22. as much as I bash Trump and the right on many issues, and not comfortable with the extent to which they bash immigrants, I still think the left panders too much to muslim and latino immigration as if those two demographics comprise all of immigration concerns. Europe took in more refugees and immigrants than those societies are capable of handling responsibly. It is no different from a cat lady who takes in all kinds of stray cats only to find herself overwhelmed and a mess of a house. Add in troublemakers like ISIS and then you got a major problem on hand.

  23. Amazing that lazy bastard court reporter got fired for admitting he just likes to cash government paychecks and not work hard. Wish more government employees got the shaft like that.

    1. No one left to cut.

  24. Let’s Get Rid Of Mount Rushmore

    It’s actually fairly well thought out for what it is.

    Editor’s note: The headline and URL of this story have been updated. We do not condone violence in any shape or form, and the use of “blow up” in the original headline as a rhetorical device was misguided and insensitive. We apologize for the error.

    Crusty’s note: Can we at least built James Mason’s awesome house from North By Northwest on Mt. Rushmore? I mean, it had an air strip and everything.

    1. How would you demolish Mount Rushmore if not by blowing it up? And if you are gonna destroy such a sight, it ought to be a spectacle.

      1. Use morters. Put it on PPV.

      2. Farm it out to the NorKs.

    2. How about the FDR monument. A man who actually did round up a group of people and put them in camps. Let’s get rid of that and the FDR library. It could rename both after Jack Soo.

  25. Contra yesterday’s Williamson piece:

    Long before he marched alongside neo-Nazis and white supremacists in Charlottesville, Ted Landrum wanted to change his name ahead of his approaching nuptials.

    It was 2012 and his friends kept telling him he shared a strong resemblance to action-video-game star Duke Nukem: A cigar-smoking ladies man with guns and muscles.

    So he changed his name to Ted Von Nukem. The “Von” an ode to his German heritage and “Nukem” to the video game character. It was a joint-decision with his now-wife of nearly four years, who also carries the last name. His given “Landrum” name, he said, had no importance to him because it borrowed from a past boyfriend of his mom.

    When asked if he identifies with the character, he said, “In that I’m a badass,” before adding, “I need to get more swole so that I can further identify with him. But I style my hair differently than he does and I don’t like cigars.”

    DOESN’T SOUND LIKE A LOSER TO ME

    1. There is a definite nerd problem in this country.

      1. Not with SJWs. Some of those husky women must wear underwear with dickholes in them.

    2. When asked if he identifies with the character, he said, “In that I’m a badass,” before adding, “I need to get more swole so that I can further identify with him. But I style my hair differently than he does and I don’t like cigars.”

      SMH

      If you need to tell someone you’re a badass, then you’re not a badass. Also, don’t talk about getting more “swole,” it just makes you sound like a douchebag.

      1. If you need to tell someone you’re a badass, then you’re not a badass.

        Also, identifying as a badass by declaring your only similarity the eponymous badass is in name only means you’re not a badass.

        I mean alien invasion, your name is Nukem, and you can’t even muster up the cojones to pretend that you would enjoy a cigar?

      2. “If you need to tell someone you’re a badass, then you’re not a badass.”

        Exactly, and you don’t need to change your name to Nukem or get more “swole” (which I just learned the meaning of below) if you’re a badass. You do those things to pretend your a badass

    3. I need to get more swole

      swole?

      1. I think that’s slang for that overmuscular gym rat look.

        1. Correct.

          Also, as stated above, use of the word “swole,” (along with “woke” and “bae”) is also a sign that one is a total douchebag.

    4. Landrum, a self-described “Trump Republican,” said he’s more of a libertarian, but both he and his wife are registered Republicans. He added he doesn’t identify with neo-Nazis and white supremacists, but won’t “counter-signal against them.”

      Could it be that we’ve identified Simple Mikey’s real identity?

      1. Proof positive that libertarians are crypto-Nazis. They’re on to us, guys!

        1. Unfortunately that’s exactly what the progs are going to take away from that: “See! We told you you were a bunch of redneck crypto-Nazi fascists!” Idiots.

  26. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has reached a settlement with two psychologists involved in the development of the interrogation/torture techniques the CIA used during the war on terror. The details of the settlement were not released.

    Emphasis added. SEE?! Waterboarding is NOT effective!

  27. President Donald Trump this morning decided on Twitter to come to the defense of maintaining Confederate statues and monuments. A poll shows that most citizens actually don’t want them to be removed.

    Looks like you cosmo cunts are doing a pretty piss-poor job of selling “the cultural-marxist case for desecrating memorials to our war dead”. Better luck next time, cucks!

    1. You believe a poll? Like the polls that said Trump would lose?

      1. I assume NPR did a push poll weighted heavily for the outcome they wanted yet still couldn’t get more than 30% to say confederate monuments are bad. I’m not in the least bit surprised by the outcome or the demographic breakdown.

        1. If NPR does something, it is heavily biased.

    2. Confederate monuments are the Obamabots new gay wedding cakes. Look for this shit to be the pet issue for the next six months.

      1. Doubt it. The budget is due soon.

        It will be the end of the World when cuts to parts of the government are speculated.

    1. They tried that one on election night too.

      1. I first pass guess is that the markets will never recover.

    2. I’ll take cheap stocks.

  28. You gotta love CNN trying to connect this so Charlottesville …

    Completely not like the terror attacks in London, or France, or…

  29. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has reached a settlement with two psychologists

    does Farmers cover that?

  30. Just call them IS (or Daesh).

    The extra letters are either ‘in Syria’ or ‘in Levant’.

    * picks teeth *

    1. *hands you corn cob pipe

  31. After reading hundreds if not thousands of comments and never posting, is there anything that all of you supposed “libertarians” actually agree upon? It appears you all just come to various event related threads and get into meaningless arguments. Is there a platform of any kind still on this website? I have a hard time finding any actual proposition about changes that should occur that more than a few of you agree upon. I thought the libertarian philosophy had a pretty simple philosophy, but I guess not. This isn’t as much of an indictment upon the commentators as the general flavor of libertarian media. Where are the sites that you all go to that you actually believe represents your point of view? I would love to know. I grew up as a democrat/liberal and went the “hard route” toward libertarianism despite being a minority voice in my family and group of friends to libertarianism but yet have found any place where it seems anyone supports each other in the basic principles of the ideology.

    1. I’d say the things we agree on the most are least likely to be on any politician’s radar, like getting rid of entitlements. So they don’t come up very much in the news.

      Also, agreements and finding common ground is for women. Libertarians do manly things like yelling at people to get off their lawn, even if no one is anywhere near their lawn. You can never be too careful.

    2. Libertarians agree on lots of stuff.

      The stuff actual libertarians discuss here are tweeks of those fundamental.

      Stuff that Michael Hihn, Buttplug, and a few others write about is not Libertarianism. They are our resident socialist punching bags.

      Rule of law is a libertarian theme but we also want a lot fewer laws.

    3. Libertarians believe in individuality and oppose groupthink.

      That’s a good starting point for the kind of vigorous debate you find here.

      Libertarians here agree on a lot, and disagreements about pizza (while important) are secondary.

      Also, as you’ve noticed I’m sure, this place is the Wild West and there are plenty of “others” posting here, most glaringly the REASON staff.

      1. Libertarians believe in individuality and oppose groupthink.

        Which has come to dominate the content just above the comments

      2. the REASON staff

        Ever since most of the better commenters bailed it’s like a sock drawer down here.

    4. When I first got here in 2004, I considered myself a libertarian. Thirteen years of exposure to other “libertarians” strangled that baby in it’s crib though. I describe myself as politically alienated now.

      To answer your question, I don’t know any sites that actually reflect my views. So I’m still here mostly out of a combination of inertia and obsessive-compulsive tendencies that compel me to waste my time trying to reason with the unreasonable, even though I know it to be an ultimately futile endeavor.

      1. You were never a Libertarian. You are a socialist and your comments reinforce that every time.

        1. On right wing sites everyone calls me a commie; on left wing sites everyone calls me nazi. I’m not with any of you because you’re all full of shit.

          1. They mean you’re a socialist and most Commies are socialists not Communists. Nazis are socialists too.

            You are full of it because you know you are a lefty and not a Libertarian.

            1. Yeah, I just said I’m not a libertarian. The idea I’d stand with you losers is insulting.

              1. Yup being pro-Liberty, pro-constitution, pro-property, pro-civil rights is not your cup of tea.

                Knew that already.

                1. pro-Liberty, pro-constitution, pro-property, pro-civil rights is not your cup of tea

                  Hmm, interesting metaphor. Libertarianism as the political equivalent of a little girl’s pretend teaparty.

              2. I don’t think you get it, Stormy: you’re a lefty Nazi communist. Get that through your thick antifa skull.

                1. They can’t be antifa if they are fascist.

    5. Where are the sites that you all go to that you actually believe represents your point of view?

      My blog.

      By “proposition,” I assume you mean a practical political step, and that’s tricky business. There are the simple broad strokes, but actual legislation or reforms aren’t simple, and reasonable people can disagree about the trade-offs. Then the unreasonable people get involved, too. And for people who like to see themselves as super-principled, and whose ideal reforms are comparatively radical, dealing with trade-offs is tough.

      And then there’s culture war bullshit, which is probably the majority of the bickering you saw.

    6. I can’t really tell if you are looking for a serious answer or not. I will assume you are for the benefit of the doubt.

      As with any group of people there will be variations in people’s political foundations, values, experiences and philosophical disposition. Among libertarians (generally speaking) you will tend to find people that tend to process their beliefs in a more individualistic way. This will lead to wide branches of the same tree or a “big tent” as they say. Some libertarians are strict, some are squishy. Some are more left, some more right.

      This is not uncommon for people who do not buy into the “team sports” of politics that is prevalent In the mainstream. If you talk to people that are not voracious cheerleaders for their teams (the kinds of people that watch Sean hannity or Rachel maddow) and ask people honestly what they think you will get answers all over the board. People are just different, and that is a good thing for the most part as long as they are logical and reasonable and they can readjust their philosophy to match facts and not the other way around.

      Dogmatism is bad even for libertarians (some times especially for libertarians). If you find a libertarian site that all posters and all editors agree on everything, run away.

    7. That said there are some core values that most libertarians will agree with:

      -Equal freedom: You should be free to make choices for your life as long as you do not infringe on the equal freedom of others.
      -Individual responsibility: groups are made up of individuals, and have no will of their own beyond the will of the individuals. It is a rejection of collectivism, infavor of individual liberty as well as responsibility.
      -civil rights: libertarians believe that humans have inate rights and if there is to be a government, it should exist to protect your rights to life, liberty and property. There is some wiggle room on natural rights but the sentiment that people have rights that are not granted by the government, they existed all along.
      -rule of law: the law should be concise and evenly applied. It should not be discretionary at the whim of the rulers. Without rule of law you are opening your society up to corruption.
      -Voluntary trade: free markets are nothing but individuals being allowed to free exchange goods, services, ideas and labor. There may be some variation in the exact level of involvement the government should have in the market but the tendency is toward less regulation and less distortion in the market as possible.

      There may be some that label themselves libertarian or are within the spectrum of libertarian thought that disagree with some of those but and that is to be expected.

      1. hat said there are some core values that most libertarians will say they agree with:

        FTFY

        1. As with anything: stated and revealed preferences are at times incongruent. The universality of such a phenomenon can’t really be a directed critique of libertarianism unless you are saying that libertarians break from principle more often than others.

          Nonetheless, I appreciate the semantic correction because I think it does make the statement technically more correct, as a person’s true beliefs are unknowable.

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