Trump Ad-Libbed 'Fire and Fury' Comments, FBI Raided Home of Paul Manafort, Bigfoot Sighting in N.C.: P.M. Links

• 

  NOAA

  Breaking News: President Trump was ad-libbing when he warned North Korea of "fire and fury" like the world had never seen before.

• Trump disagrees with Mitch McConnell, saying expecting Republicans to repeal and replace Obamacare after seven years of campaigning on it was not excessive.
• The FBI raided the home of former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort as part of the Russia investigation.
• The president of Kenya has a strong lead in the presidential vote tally, but the opposition claims the results were hacked.
• Franklin will be the first hurricane of the season; it's expected to make landfall in Mexico tonight.
• Major League Baseball is allowing players to wear custom nickname jerseys the last weekend of August.
• A Bigfoot sighting in western North Carolina.

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

The FBI raided the home of former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort as part of the Russia investigation.

Man the fort! The MRAP's are coming!

[Rufus The Monocled]

Hello.

North Korea PULL DOWN YOUR PANTS!

[Fist of Etiquette]

President Trump was ad-libbing when he warned North Korea of "fire and fury" like the world had never seen before.

Hey, if Reagan can outlaw the USSR and get away with it...

[Unicorn Abattoir]

The linguistics of Trump/Kim are converging, blurring the line between them just a little bit more.

[DenverJ]

The ultimate troll would be Trump getting a Kim haircut.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Trump disagrees with Mitch McConnell, saying expecting Republicans to repeal and replace Obamacare after seven years of campaigning on it was not excessive.

Boom. You been Trumped.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The president of Kenya has a strong lead in the presidential vote tally, but the opposition claims the results were hacked.

All of this sounds vaguely familiar. ALL OF IT.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

But mostly the "president of Kenya" part, right?

[Jerry on the sea]

He wasn't even born in Kenya.

[$park? leftist poser]

Trump disagrees with Mitch McConnell, saying expecting Republicans to repeal and replace Obamacare after seven years of campaigning on it was not excessive.

Ooooh, I'll bet there's some nasty fallout from this. I'll bet McConnell gets extra nothing done now.

[Chipper Morning, Now #1]

Whoa, Crusty is commenting from NC today?

[BestUsedCarSales]

CRUSTY AND STEVE SMITH ARE SEPARATE PEOPLE. STEVE SMITH DOESN'T LIKE PEOPLE GETTING CONFUSED ON THAT POINT.

[Crusty Juggler]

I wouldn't be caught dead in that mosquito-laden garbage state.

[Chipper Morning, Now #1]

Really? If you had a sure thing down there, you sure as hell would make the drive. You know you would.

[Crusty Juggler]

When I'm in the mood for some fresh cold cuts, they hop on a Greyhound and come to me.

[Telcontar the Wanderer]

Not a day goes by that this comment section doesn't suck a little more light and joy out of with unsolicited exploration of what Crusty does with his spare time.

[Charles Easterly]

"Greyhound" - any of a breed of tall slender graceful smooth-coated dogs characterized by swiftness and keen sight and used for coursing game and racing; also: any of several related dogs.

[BestUsedCarSales]

I'm learning I'm one of the few people who feels neutral towards the "Fire and Fury" comment. Seems like everyone is pretty worked up.

[$park? leftist poser]

You're not alone. One blustering braggart responded to another blustering braggart with bluster. Big whoop.

[Chipper Morning, Now #1]

I am drawing the line at a big middle finger, though.

[Tom Bombadil]

Neither Dear Leader has the hand size to produce a big middle finger.

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

Right. This is how testy nations talk to one another. It's not like US officials haven't said worse about NK.

[BestUsedCarSales]

It's the thing I've found most frustrating about the Trump era. Everything is spoken about with such hyperbole that I can genuinely not tell if something big has happened or not.

[colorblindkid]

At least half of the "unprecedented" things Trump has done, like firing all the U.S. attorneys, turn out to be very normal things that happen all the time, and have a lot of precedent. The hyperbole and hysteria very well might give Trump another term.

[Fist of Etiquette]

...it's expected to make landfall in Mexico tonight.

A border wall would have come in handy right about now, keeping that hurricane in Mexico.

[Chipper Morning, Now #1]

Eventually, we will be able to harness all that energy.

[Tom Bombadil]

Mid-August and the first Hurricane? Gaia is really not helping the AGW crowd.

[Tom Bombadil]

Mid-August and the first Hurricane? Gaia is really not helping the AGW crowd.

[Crusty Juggler]

Conservative Koch Brothers Are Secret Investors in 'Wonder Woman' (Exclusive)

Sources say Charles G. Koch and David H. Koch ? who are worth a combined $96.2 billion and wield enormous power in political circles as major backers of right-wing politicians ? took a significant stake valued at tens of millions of dollars in RatPac-Dune Entertainment. Now-Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin brought the brothers in as investors as part of a $450 million deal struck in 2013 ? a move that was never disclosed because RatPac-Dune is a private company.

Fucking conservative right-wingers, bringing joy to millions.

[BestUsedCarSales]

I saw this earlier, saw someone upset about it, but didn't realize it was important enough to be posted here.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Damn, my comment really sounded like I was shitting on you. Know this was not the intent.

[$park? leftist poser]

Nothing is important enough to be posted here.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Hey, if Crusty posted it, it was important enough to post.

[Charles Easterly]

Hey, if Crusty posted it, it was important enough to post.

Your sarcasm has been noted.
Thus, +1.

Nothing is important enough to be posted here.
Your post has been noted....

[BestUsedCarSales]

No sarcasm. I have only love for Crusty.

[Charles Easterly]

+2?

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

And now the people who made Suicide Squad and King Arthur: Legend of the Sword must feel great shame.

[ChipToBeSquare]

Speaking of the Kochs, the Libertarian Moment is here! They just didn't tell us which America it was gonna be in

Actually a decent read when you screen for the fact that The Intercept is full of socialists who think the unrest in Venezuela is entirely due to a right-wing conspiracy

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

That warms the kochles of my heart.

There are a lot of passionate libertarians in Latin America. I have more hope for them than I do for efforts here.

[ChipToBeSquare]

They do point out one nearly unforgivable aspect of this particular foundation without knowing it: the acceptance of government money. You'd think people reading Mises, Read, and Hayek might have some hangups about that, but I guess when you're fighting the overwhelming resources of governments themselves you can convince yourself to abandon your principles. And shit, they're doing better than we are (then again, they are fighting full-blown socialists while we're fighting socialism-lite)

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

Eh, there's always two sides to that issue. If you are going to play politics, play to win, and taking taxpayer money is a relatively minor infraction justified by the ends. On the other hand, if you give up your principles, what's the point of it all?

One of the reasons I avoid playing politics is to avoid that kind of dilemma.

[Charles Easterly]

On the other hand, if you give up your principles, what's the point of it all?

This is one of many points I attempted to express hours ago, MJGreen.

[Charles Easterly]

I reread my post and I apologize for my lack of clarity.

Earlier today I was in a meeting and attempted to express the value of having consistent principles.

I also tried to address another point - not "forcing" my own principles upon other individuals.

[Tom Bombadil]

Do your principles include focusing on the meeting at hand?
/snark

[Fist of Etiquette]

A Bigfoot sighting in western North Carolina.

Is there anyone left here to reference a certain Mr. Smith?

[Greg Loves His Woodchipper]

STEVE SMITH SO HAPPY TO RAPE HIKER IN NC AGAIN AND NOT PROTEST BATHROOM BILL! ALL HOLES ARE STEVE SMITH HOLES ANYWAY!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Major League Baseball is allowing players to wear custom nickname jerseys the last weekend of August.

All of them Slugger.

[Rufus The Monocled]

If you scroll past Slugger fast enough it can be read as another word.

/raises eyebrow.

[Crusty Juggler]

Implying that you have a...dirty, racist mind?

*raises both eyebrows*

[Rufus The Monocled]

Hey!

I was referring to MUGGER!

[Chipper Morning, Now #1]

Plugger?

[gaoxiaen]

Bugger?

[DenverJ]

Hitler?

[ChipToBeSquare]

Trump ad-libbed a controversial remark? What a shocker

[Crusty Juggler]

Do you have a 'depressed' vagina? This could be why sex is SO painful (and it's nothing to do with an STI)

t's a real and very painful thing, known by its medical name vulvodynia, and it can affect women of all ages.

It causes a burning sensation down there, a stinging pain despite there being no sign of infection or skin condition.

The slightest touch, during sex or even when putting a tampon in, can cause a surge of pain.

And, for the women who suffer this long-term condition, it can prove so painful sex is firmly off the cards.

Hey ladies, shove a few Prozac into your minge so I can get some of that sweet vitamin P.

[Juice]

Turn that vertical frown upside down!

[DJF]

I blame men.

[Tom Bombadil]

Vulvodynia was the name of the DJ for Salt-N-Pepa.

[BestUsedCarSales]

I know we like to joke around here, but it was DJ Spinderella. This is important and so should not be confused.

[Dillinger]

Trump disagrees with Mitch McConnell

Will Trump Fire McConnell?

[Dillinger]

Trump disagrees with Mitch McConnell

Will Trump Fire McConnell?

[Dillinger]

i did not do that twice.

[Charles Easterly]

I, for one, believe you in this regard.

[Dillinger]

barely funny the first time.

[Crusty Juggler]

Has Tipping Gone Out of Control?

What is the economic rationale behind tipping? Does the usefulness of tipping diminish the more that a certain rate becomes an expectation? At a certain point, would it be better to do without the fuss involved and simply include that portion of a service provider's compensation in the wages paid by the employer?

Finally, a libertarian-minded point of view I can get behind.

[Rhywun]

25-30% is considered the rule in New York City.

B------t. At least amonng the rubes I hang out with.

And the answer to the last question is no, because tipping is for service provided. In countries that don't tip, the service is garbage for a reason.

[Rufus The Monocled]

25-30?

Are you out of your minds?

I'd have to get a hand job for that.

[Ska]

When I tip 20% I feel like I'm fucking myself over. Nobody I know tips 25-30%. That's completely unreasonable.

The only exception is the girl that bartends at my preferred watering hole who buys me back every time. I tip her 25%.

[grrizzly]

20% is maximum. Anybody who tips more is an idiot.

[Animal]

"In countries that don't tip, the service is garbage for a reason."

Eh. Tipping is not done in Japan, and the service even in cheap restaurants is usually very good.

[Wasteland Wanderer]

That may have more to do with Japan's monomaniacal obsession with work ethic, though.

[BestUsedCarSales]

I wouldn't be surprised if the issue is Europe is the alliance being European rather than anything to do with tipping.

[Paloma]

Plus New Yorkers are expected to tip for EVERYTHING.

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

I misread that three times as "Hat Tipping"

[Charles Easterly]

As in hockey?

[Dillinger]

shitty service has gone out of control.

[DenverJ]

Just the tip, baby.

[Jerryskids]

Breaking News: President Trump was ad-libbing when he warned North Korea of "fire and fury" like the world had never seen before.

Shocking that he managed to open his mouth and the random words that fell out formed a coherent thought, isn't it? I'm pretty sure it's just random chance, a statistical fluke.

[Crusty Juggler]

Innocence Is Irrelevant

This is the age of the plea bargain. Most people adjudicated in the criminal-justice system today waive the right to a trial and the host of protections that go along with one, including the right to appeal. Instead, they plead guilty. The vast majority of felony convictions are now the result of plea bargains?some 94 percent at the state level, and some 97 percent at the federal level. Estimates for misdemeanor convictions run even higher. These are astonishing statistics, and they reveal a stark new truth about the American criminal-justice system: Very few cases go to trial. Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy acknowledged this reality in 2012, writing for the majority in Missouri v. Frye, a case that helped establish the right to competent counsel for defendants who are offered a plea bargain. Quoting a law-review article, Kennedy wrote, "?'Horse trading [between prosecutor and defense counsel] determines who goes to jail and for how long. That is what plea bargaining is. It is not some adjunct to the criminal justice system; it is the criminal justice system.'?"

Thanks, lawyers!

[Juice]

the American criminal-justice system

Need to remove the hyphen.

[Jerryskids]

These are astonishing statistics, and they reveal a stark new truth about the American criminal-justice system: Very few cases go to trial.

Unless you dug this story up from a forty-year old source, I'd have to say it's more astonishing that anybody thinks this is astonishing or a new truth.

[Crusty Juggler]

Feminism FTW! Mattel Has Released A New Barbie That Gets Rich Selling Her Placenta To Wealthy Chinese Businessmen

According to Mattel, this strong, independent Barbie comes with a realistic placenta that she has chosen to sell to a group of mysterious Chinese executives at a corrupt corporation called GlamCorp Asia for cold, hard cash. It's Mattel's boldest Barbie yet, and it gives budding young feminists the chance to see a female role model who is empowered to make her own choices when it comes to arranging a meeting with an aging Chinese tycoon who she met on the dark web and selling him her afterbirth.

The Women's March is already churning out results.

[Chipper Morning, Now #1]

Placentas are good in olive oil with some garlic and chives.

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

And a nice Chianti. fuh fuh fuh fuh fuh

[MarkLastname]

Eh, I say it's a ripoff. Placentas are only good as sauce for the uncooked fetus. Placenta without fetus is like getting a plate of just ranch dressing. Where's the meal?

[Rebel Scum]

President Trump was ad-libbing

You don't say.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

He's the best ad-libber ever. Biggly!

[Domestic Dissident]

Apparently the official Meme of the Day from the Obama/Sanders demfags in the JournoList and the fake libertarians like Krayewski (but I repeat myself) is that it's Trump's fault that North Korea is a nuclear power.

[Jerryskids]

Trump disagrees with Mitch McConnell, saying expecting Republicans to repeal and replace Obamacare after seven years of campaigning on it was not excessive.

Assuming McConnell does in fact think it's excessive, I'd have to go with McConnell's knowledge of the GOP over Trump's. Heck, I assume I don't know half what McConnell knows about the GOP, and I didn't have any expectations of them repealing Obamacare.

[Tom Bombadil]

A simpler explanation is that Mitch McConnell is in CYA mode.

[Crusty Juggler]

Lawyer finds loophole to spring teacher accused of rape from jail

Sarah Lewis was accused of rape in January after a 17-year-old male student said she plied him with vodka and had sex with him ?which he recorded, KUTV reported.

It's like if Charles Manson and Adolph Hitler had a baby, and then taught that baby how to rape.

The law, amended in 2014, allows teachers or others with "a relationship of special trust," who have been charged with raping a 16 or 17 year-old, to reduce their charge to unlawful sexual conduct, a third-degree felony.

Time to amend that law right back.

[Rebel Scum]

expecting Republicans to repeal and replace Obamacare after seven years of campaigning on it was not excessive.

Agreed. And Team Reds habit of failing to be conservative and failing to do what conservative voters voted them in to do continues.

[Rebel Scum]

The FBI raided the home of former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort as part of the Russia investigation.

They found him dead with a gun shot to the back of the head in an apparent suicide.

[ChipToBeSquare]

"NO FOUL PLAY WHATSOEVER"

[DJF]

Just one gun shot? Political involved suicides have at least 7 shots to the back of the head from a six shot revolver.

[damikesc]

I find it ironic that they raided Manafort --- who is cooperating with the Senate investigation --- but not Fusion GPS who is not cooperating in the slightest.

Certainly makes cooperation seem like a sucker's bet.

[Rebel Scum]

The storm, packing winds of 70 mph, is on a collision course with Mexico's east coast, south of Texas. Riding over warm water, it is expected to make landfall Wednesday night as a hurricane containing peak winds up to 85 mph.

Cue "Super-storm Franklin".

[Tom Bombadil]

Shee-it. I fart stronger than 85 mph.

[Jerry on the sea]

And the Mail delivers: Revealed: Husband 'is standing by' drama teacher, 37, who had sex with convent schoolgirl pupil in a hotel during West End trip to watch Matilda before bragging about it.

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

Definitely British.

[Jerry on the sea]

Eighteen people found guilty over Newcastle sex grooming network.

[Dillinger]

sex grooming network

cinemax?

[damikesc]

I love that they refer to them all as "Asians" and not as "Muslims", which most of them seem to be.

[target]

"The FBI raided the home of former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort as part of the Russia investigation."

please tell me they shot his dog(s), and confiscated any contraband money they found after forcing open his personal safe, before he got a chance to use the fruits of his ill gotten gains.

[Robespierre Josef Stalin]

Trump ad-libbed 'fire and fury'

Jesus Christ! And, now, ladies and gentleman, presenting the King George the Third Award for Kracked-Up Kountry with the Kraziest political leader in the known universe...

1999 Winner: North Korea
2000 Winner: North Korea
2001 Winner: Turkmenistan
2002 Winner: North Korea
2003 Winner: North Korea
2004 Winner: North Korea
2005 Winner: North Korea
2006 Winner: North Korea
2007 Winner: North Korea
2008 Winner: North Korea
2009 Winner: North Korea
2010 Winner: North Korea
2011 Winner: North Korea
2012 Winner: North Korea
2013 Winner: North Korea
2014 Winner: North Korea
2015 Winner: North Korea
2016 Winner: North Korea
2017 Winner: USA

USA! USA!

[ChipToBeSquare]

I'm offended more by the North Korean victories than the USA's victory

I'm not sure how you reconcile being against war with North Korea with the idea that North Korea is not a rational actor

[Robespierre Josef Stalin]

Don't you find it a bit ironic that Trump is drawing nuclear red lines in the sand on the anniversary of the Nagasaki bombing, where the US dropped a bomb that killed 95% civilians against An impoverished Asian country? We seem to have a thing for killing impoverished Asians. Maybe that's why they don't like us much.

[Dillinger]

it's not ironic it's just what happened.

[ChipToBeSquare]

Blowback is Ron Paul 101, but if you think North Korea is run by insane people who don't act rationally, which your first post implies, why wouldn't you support war against them?

[Robespierre Josef Stalin]

is this a rhetorical question? Even if it's not, I'm not against burning millions of people alive even if the country were run by a crackpot.

Shouldn't the lesson here be-- in part-- that if we're so threatened by nuclear weapons we should endeavor to get rid of such things ourselves?

[Telcontar the Wanderer]

I believe the customary response is "you first".

[Robespierre Josef Stalin]

Why?

[Telcontar the Wanderer]

In a game of Nuclear Disarmament, whoever goes second, wins.

[notJoe]

Shouldn't the lesson here be-- in part-- that if we're so threatened by nuclear weapons we should endeavor to get rid of such things ourselves?

Ummm, no. Kinda like I'm not going to throw my guns in the trash if there's a crazy guy with a pistol in the street threatening to shoot everyone.

Really stupid lesson there commie-kid. You learn that one in public school?

[ChipToBeSquare]

Nuclear disarmament is a fever dream. Good luck with your New Socialist Man but we're over here in the real world where you can't uninvent the nuclear bomb

My point is that you have bought into war propaganda and you don't even know it. If you believe Kim Jong-un is irrational, then it's not much of a leap to think he could strike at any moment. If I believed Kim Jong-un was irrational, I would more closely consider an armed intervention myself. This is why the interventionists work so hard to make you think that other countries are run by people who are dangerous and mentally unstable: it makes you feel as though you might be in danger from this person's very existence

However, the Kim dynasty is not irrational or else they would have been wiped off the map already. Everything they do is with the desire to stay in power, and they fully realize their military inferiority. They know a conflict would wipe them off the map and not one person from the current regime would survive the transition. They also know their enemies would find it unacceptable for Seoul to be burned to the ground. They know they can leverage this threat for things like economic concessions. The greater the threat, the greater the concessions. We should be hoping that Trump considers "making a deal" to look like a hero rather than listening to the warmongers in the media

[Robespierre Josef Stalin]

Did you see how I put USA in the 2017 winner column? That's because its political leader just threatened North Korea with nuclear war. It wasn't a comment on the suicidal nature of the Kim regime. It's a comment on the stupidity of the US President and on the continued bellicosity of the American regime.

[ChipToBeSquare]

In comparison to a regime that's actually not that crazy or stupid, just straight evil. You even call Trump "Dear Leader" in these comments because you're trying to imply that he's insane and stupid just like the North Koreans' leaders are

Just pointing out that if you believe the Kims are just crazy, psychopathic, unstable liars, which your comments indicate, you would be stupid to still be antiwar

[Paloma]

Trump kind of threatened BACK. And if they dare use a nuclear weapon, someone needs to retaliate. That's the Non Aggression Principle. AKA don't start nothin' ain't gonna be nothin'.

[damikesc]

Did you see how I put USA in the 2017 winner column? That's because its political leader just threatened North Korea with nuclear war.

...after N Korea has done the same, repeatedly.

[Sevo]

Robespierre Josef Stalin|8.9.17 @ 6:38PM|#
"Shouldn't the lesson here be-- in part-- that if we're so threatened by nuclear weapons we should endeavor to get rid of such things ourselves?"

No, we should all hope for unicorns to fart in our direction!
What a fucking imbecile...

[Paloma]

Nothing wrong with the US getting rid of the North Korean's nuclear weapons.

[Telcontar the Wanderer]

Yep, totally random impoverished Asian nation. No backstory there at all.

Like, say, the fact they were *still heavily engaged* in trying to "pacify" the *actual* random impoverished Asian nations of China, Korea, Vietnam, etc... And were killing a hundred thousand civilians in those areas *per month* in the doing.

[Square = Circle]

Yeah - I was gonna say the same thing.

Calling 1945 Japan "impoverished" is like calling a guy who just murdered his parents "an orphan."

[DenverJ]

Yes, Imperial Japan was "impoverished". Which is how they managed to take over China and most of the Pacific, fight against Russia, and have the greatest naval fleet in history up to that time. Dumbass.

[Sevo]

Robespierre Josef Stalin|8.9.17 @ 6:12PM|#
"Don't you find it a bit ironic th"

See below, you lying piece of shit.

[Telcontar the Wanderer]

No love for Venezuela and Zimbabwe, tovarisch?

[Telcontar the Wanderer]

Also, what'd Turkmenistan do, anyway?

[Robespierre Josef Stalin]

Everyone knows that Turkmenistan is the crazy Stan.

[Agammamon]

Trump disagrees with Mitch McConnell, saying expecting Republicans to repeal and replace Obamacare after seven years of campaigning on it was not excessive.

Hey-hey! Trump and I agree on something.

Sad Turtle is just hurt and confused - he expected to be able to *campaign* on the issue, now his feelings are hurt that people would actually expect Cecil and company to try to pull it off. After all, those were just words. The GoP was just 'ad-libbing'.

[Robespierre Josef Stalin]

Don't worry everyone. We're in the stage of international diplomacy where Dear Leader's subordinates assure us that their screaming, angry boss shouldn't be taken seriously. What? There's never been this processing before with political leaders who were actually qualified for the job? Well, there is now-- just so you know. Everyone calm the fuck down. Dear Leader was just having a bad day.

[damikesc]

Well, Kennedy begged the Soviets to help the Democrats in 1984 because of how mean Reagan was to the Soviets.

And Obama did have his "red line" speech about Syria.

I guess the moral is nobody takes it seriously when Democrats say shit.

[Praveen R.]

As much as I despise Trump, I actually think his rantings here has a chance at provoking Fat Kim in doing something stupid and bring about his downfall. When Fat Kim came into power, I thought he would be the type who would put his luxury and perks at the top of the priority list and would do whatever it took to not be at the center of world attention. Now, it looks like the guy has developed a major complex growing up and he is set out to prove to others he is a "man" or something like that.

My dream scenario is Fat Kim gives the order to attack Guam but US has enough time to obliterate him and his surrounding city to rubble. Yes, some innocent N Koreans will die too, but they probably woudl have grown up to be little monsters under Fat Kim's rule.

[BestUsedCarSales]

My guess is it doesn't change anything either way.

[DenverJ]

North Korea already has nukes. Plus the conventional arms and artillery to reduce Seoul to rubble and overrun hundreds of American and South Korean soldiers posted at the border. At which point America would destroy the Kim regime. Neither side is crazy enough to start a shooting war on the Korean peninsula.

[Telcontar the Wanderer]

They ain't reducing anything to rubble, and they ain't overunnin' shit, or at least not for very long.

You assume that A, all those guns are functional and crewed by decently-trained men, B, the ROK and US militaries don't already have plans to counter-attack and silence the guns extremely quickly, and C, that all those millions of untrained peasants with 75-year-old PPSh-41s would actually maintain formation and not break and run after the B-1s, B-2s, B-52s, Tomahawks, carrier-launched F/A-18E/Fs, AC-130s, F-16s, A-10s, M777s and whatever the South Koreans have open up on them.

But they aren't, they do, and they won't.

Jong-Un's nukes are the only thing he can threaten us with. Everything else he has is just so much cannon fodder (and JDAM-fodder, and Hellfire fodder, etc.).

[Sevo]

"They ain't reducing anything to rubble, and they ain't overunnin' shit, or at least not for very long."

In the '50s, the Norks were armed by the Russkis with equipment shipped east to fight the Japanese and no longer required. They overran the south until the south got US (UN, riiiiiiiight) help, when they got a flank hit at Inchon, chasing them back north of the 38th. They ended up forcing the issue back to 38N with the help of the Chi Coms.
So, in a divided world at the time, the Norks advanced twice with the more than generous assistance of two countries which aren't about to help them again. Maybe Cuba or Venezuela will send over some divisions this time, if they can feed them on the way.
Supposedly, they do have nukes now, and it is possible they would use them and thereby become the first country in history to use them in aggression. If so, I doubt any nation would retaliate with nukes; the target is too small and the danger of fall-out spread too great.. We (and I do mean WE in this case) would simply start from 38N and move north until there was no longer any threat.
Whether Jong Un is bright enough to understand is open to question, but I'm pretty sure he's getting some tutoring from the Chi Coms as we type.

[Agammamon]

. . . first country in history to use them in aggression.

I think you mean 'second'. Because whether or not you consider Hiroshima and Nagasaki *necessary* or *justified*, they certainly weren't *defensive* uses.

[Sevo]

"I think you mean 'second'. Because whether or not you consider Hiroshima and Nagasaki *necessary* or *justified*, they certainly weren't *defensive* uses."

Bull
.
.
.
.
shit.
You do not know what you are talking about. I'd suggest you STFU before you prove you are dumber than you appear now.

[Agammamon]

Ah, I forgot - you're very 'rah-rah, America can do no wrong'.

But the use of nuclear weapons on Japan was not a defensive act.

[Sevo]

Agammamon|8.10.17 @ 12:34AM|#
"Ah, I forgot - you're very 'rah-rah, America can do no wrong'."
No, assghole, I'm a very careful student of history willing to call ignoramuses on bullshit, ignoramus.

"But the use of nuclear weapons on Japan was not a defensive act."
You've now made a claim twice, with no evidence at all. Try again or STFU, ignoramus.

[Agammamon]

You've made the claim that it was defensive - despite the rest of the world and most of the US not agreeing with that - and have provided no evidence to support that at all.

Try again or STFU, ignoramus.

[Sevo]

Agammamon|8.10.17 @ 2:49AM|#
"You've made the claim that it was defensive - despite the rest of the world and most of the US not agreeing with that - and have provided no evidence to support that at all."
So you've taken a vote and outvoted eveuyone who was involved.
Interesting I'd never heard of that vote, nor any justification for deciding the issue by a vote.
I'll simply have to conclude that, as a fucking imbecile, you're trying to weasel out of a hole you dug for yourself.
You don't get to redefine words as your widdle heart desires, asshole

"Try again or STFU, ignoramus."
Take your own advice.

[Telcontar the Wanderer]

@Agammamon

While Sevo's responses may be... "impolitic", he is nonetheless correct. The Japanese Empire was still fighting on the Chinese and Korean mainlands, and the Japanese regime that had attacked us was still in power and was in no way considering surrender until the 1-2 punch of the nukes and the Soviet invasion of Manchuria. The bombing was in self-defense of both the various nations of East Asia that were still under attack, and ourselves by extension.

[Agammamon]

None of that equals *defensive* use. And it wasn't to 'defend' a bunch of nations that we couldn't care less about at the time and certainly wasn't in defense of ourselves since we had all but effectively already won - the invasion would have just been icing on the cake.

Its not like we've ever just walked away from a conflict - isn't the Korean War, technically, still on?

[Telcontar the Wanderer]

The entire Pacific War was a defensive action. Its purpose: see to the utter dissolution of the Japanese Empire, so it could never initiate aggression against us ever again. There were only 4 options for bringing this about:

1. Conventional invasion, predicted to produce 100,000+ US casualties and easily a million(+) dead IJ soldiers and civilians, judging by Iwo and Okinawa.
2. Continued conventional bombing and/or submarine blockade, which would definitely have led to hundreds of thousands of mostly-civilian deaths.
3. Allowing the Soviet Union, still under Stalin at the time, to occupy half or all of the Japanese Home Islands. Arguably the worst fate imaginable.
4. Nuclear strikes, producing approx. 250,000 casualties.

The idea that we could have just "let Japan go" at that point is ludicrous: numerous examples exist of "defeated" empires rebuilding and coming back for revenge, and we had at that time a very recent and terrible example in mind: Imperial Germany, 1918, defeated but not broken in fighting spirit even with its wartime leadership removed. With Hideki Tojo's government still in power, a Second Pacific War between a resurgent Imperial Japan and the US would've been inevitable.

[Sevo]

"4. Nuclear strikes, producing approx. 250,000 casualties."

"The actual total of deaths due to the atomic bombs will never be known. The best approximation is that the number is huge and falls between 100,000 and 200,000."
If you wish to be considered educated in the matter, you had best read "Downfall", Richard B. Frank. The above is from pg. 287.
If you haven't, you are really missing the best available data. Unless YOU can offer a better alternative,

[Telcontar the Wanderer]

I did say "approximately", didn't I? I was going by memory. I've heard various different estimates of the total death toll, ranging from low-ball of 150,000 to maximum of 250,000; I try to be in the habit of loading my numbers in my opponent's favor (to undercut their potential retorts), so I used the highest number I had heard.

Anyway: "Downfall", Richard Frank. Duly noted. If I ever have the time...

[Sevo]

"Its not like we've ever just walked away from a conflict - isn't the Korean War, technically, still on?"
Spoken like the uneducated imbecile you are.
Of course, we just load up all that stuff, tell our allies we're going home, and find Truman strung up under the front porch of the WH.
There are stupid claims about what we could have done to end WWII, but this has to put the bar too low to be beaten.
What a fucking imbecile!

[damikesc]

It was humanitarian.

Invasion would've killed measures more people.

[Sevo]

"It was humanitarian.
Invasion would've killed measures more people."

Which is the utilitarian argument in favor, perfectly valid but ignoring the principled argument which Agammamon is trying to 'define away' by changing the meanings of words.
And failing.

[Telcontar the Wanderer]

Right, they were able to advance the first time because we only had a "tripwire" force in place, and the South Koreans had absolutely no idea what they were doing. And the second time because Mao donated a bunch of hand-me-down Kuomintang troops he happened to have lying around.

THIS time, we have a good deal more assets in place (still a tripwire force, yes, but a *steel* tripwire), and the South Koreans are very much ready. More importantly, air power has advanced significantly since then: B-52s and such can actually contribute to conventional battles now, thanks to guided munitions. All we have to do is send in the F-22s and B-2s to take out their forward SAM launchers and radars, and it's open season. If they try to overrun us, that's gonna be a real short adventure for them.

The only thing we have to fear are the nukes, and I don't think there's much chance of a conventional response to a nuclear attack by them. If they press the red button, so do we: the Chinese and ROK will just have to deal with their kids having a few extra eyes and arms for a few generations.

[Sevo]

"If they press the red button, so do we: the Chinese and ROK will just have to deal with their kids having a few extra eyes and arms for a few generations."

You left out part of Russia and Japan.
I doubt it; what remains of NK will be forever known as the only country to use nukes as an aggressive weapon, and there is no reasons to respond in kind.

[Troy muy grande boner]

Don't forget MLRS. Gridsmashers. HUAHHH!!!!!

[Sevo]

WIH is this?

[Agammamon]

Multiple Launch Rocket System.

A full barrage can effectively kill all infantry in a square kilometer - the standard grid markings on a MGRS map are squares 1km on a side.

It does require some work to piece together routes that go over multiple maps since the grids are *true* squares that don't take curvature into account, but on the scale of several kilometers that most maps cover it make things easier. Tradeoffs in reference systems.

[Sevo]

Of course it's not realistic to expect consistency of North Korea, but now Jong Un is whining about the sanctions after years of pitching 'self-sufficiency' under the banner of "Juche".
Similarly, the left whines about how international trade is the absolute 'colonization' of smaller countries by large businesses while claiming the US embargo of Cuba is the cause of poverty there.

[Sevo]

Robespierre Josef Stalin|8.9.17 @ 6:12PM|#
"Don't you find it a bit ironic that Trump is drawing nuclear red lines in the sand on the anniversary of the Nagasaki bombing, where the US dropped a bomb that killed 95% civilians against An impoverished Asian country?"

Gee, I'd missed this slimy piece of shit once again trying to justify his stupidity.
Don't you find it idiotic to claim the use of nukes to save millions of lives was a problem?
Just wondering, since lefty shitbags like you are all for mass murder.

[IceTrey]

I think it's obvious Trump is the Father of Dragons.

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