Thomas Massie

Thomas Massie's Unified Theory of Ron Paul, Rand Paul, and Donald Trump

"They weren't voting for libertarian ideas-they were voting for the craziest son of a bitch in the race."

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How does a voter go from supporting a relatively libertarian Republican to enthusiastically backing Donald Trump? Thomas Massie, a Kentucky congressman widely seen as one of the House's more libertarian members, offers a theory to the Washington Examiner:

Firesign Theatre

"I went to Iowa twice and came back with [Ron Paul]. I was with him at every event for the last three days in Iowa," Massie said. "From what I observed, not just in Iowa but also in Kentucky, up close with individuals, was that the people that voted for me in Kentucky, and the people who had voted for [Ron] Paul in Iowa several years before, were now voting for Trump. In fact, the people that voted for Rand in a primary in Kentucky were preferring Trump."

"All this time," Massie explained, "I thought they were voting for libertarian Republicans. But after some soul searching I realized when they voted for Rand and Ron and me in these primaries, they weren't voting for libertarian ideas—they were voting for the craziest son of a bitch in the race. And Donald Trump won best in class, as we had up until he came along."

I should note that Massie himself wound up endorsing Trump over Clinton, though not exactly enthusiastically. "I think you're more likely to get change," he said last August. "I don't know if it's gonna be a good change, but you gotta break eggs to make an omelette." I suppose that's not so far from saying Trump was the craziest son of a bitch in the race.

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  1. I thought that was jill stein

    1. He said “…craziest son of a bitch n the race.” I don’t think Stein’s a tranny. NTTAWWT

      1. Well she was crazy but that son of a bitch part does explain why hillary lost

  2. “He may be a son of a bitch, but he’s our son of a bitch.”

  3. I am not sure “crazy” is right denominator, but rather, the candidate that would most likely send tbe political and pundit classes into fits of pearl clutching.

    Rand Paul is a ratger normal pol by that standard. However, there is some evidence I have that the electorate is sceptical of libertarian policies, especislly on immigration and foreign policy.

    1. It’s incredibly disappointing when you realize that the Pauls’ brief popularity was primarily from a hatred of the establishment rather than an embrace of any particular policy. But the silver lining is that we get to watch the establishment become completely unhinged as they try to cope with a president who despises them all and got elected on that exact platform

      And it’s a bit shocking to see that Massie has reached the conclusion that voters wanted the “craziest” guy. It’s pretty clear they just wanted to burn the establishment to the ground

      1. Rand fucked up — the biggest of the century, when he did these two things in less than a week.
        1) Standing ovation from liberals at Berkeley on non-intervention and civil liberties.
        2) Fucked it up by calling for nationwide tent revivals to fight the “national threat” of … equal rights.

        At least we saw proof — finally — that the Paulista Cult’s liberty coalition — social liberals and extreme socons — is crazy (shoulda been obvious). What kind of retard thinks that Christofascists would not repel Berkeley liberals?
        TENT REVIVALS? Maybe 10% of Americans.

        Over 60% of Americans would self-describe as fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Pissing off the majority is a strategy worthy of General Custer. But it’s not a cult.

        1. How are you doing this?

        2. What kind of retard thinks that Christofascists would not repel Berkeley liberals?

          Who gives a shit what either group thinks? Neither is representative of the country.

          1. Who gives a shit what either group thinks? Neither is representative of the country

            Ummm, do they fit together in ANY coalition? That’s the point.

            1. If they won’t “fit together”, then you have to pick one or the other (or neither). What difference does it make which one you pick?

              1. If they won’t “fit together”, then you have to pick one or the other (or neither).

                Precisely how Rand fucked up. So glad you agree that he was stupid to think he could combine extreme socons and Berkely liberals into the same tent … and in less than a week!

                What difference does it make which one you pick?

                None at all. But he picked both. Sorry if I was unclear.

                1. When dealing with goobers, go VERY slow … and be prepared for MULTIPLE repetitions … like Trump raping the tax system. which can take 20 or more repetitions to one of his hero-worshippers.

        3. And yet that same 60% keeps electing spendthrifts. So much so that 80% of the seats aren’t even contested in a significant way and 90% of incumbents win re-election during a “wave year”.

          Methinks people talk a good game.

          1. Methinks people talk a good game.

            Ummm, you need to offer an alternative. An alternative means an actual campaign platform. That means policy solutions .. not a lot of babbling, slogans and soundbites.

            Johnson/Weld had ZERO policy solutions, in an election when people were clearly eager for MAJOR change. Gary’s only specific solution was to submit a balanced budget – a blatantly clear signal that he had no plan for governing and no real intention of governing.

            I blame the libertarian establishment — which also has NO credible policy proposals — and a few that are totally stupid, like Medicare Vouchers. They’d increase competition … in the wrong market! Involving insurance companies looks like privatization to the tribe, but think it through. Cato would add a useless and costly middle-man between the gummint and providers. Blaming voters for our own fuckups seems rather … like an alibi.

            1. Hey, Hihn, how’s it going?

              Now, let me first say that calling Christians “fascists” is absolutely unnecessary, though I admit far too many do indeed act like it.

              That being said, you are right in that Rand did mess up in how he tried to “combine extreme socons and Berkely liberals into the same tent”. Had he stuck to libertarian fundamentals, he would have likely had more success (and been much more palatable to actual libertarians). I’m pretty sure there would have been no stopping Trump (against almost all predictions in 2015) due to what we now know, but actually being libertarian would have been the way to go.

              You are also right that Johnson/Weld was a major screw up on the big “L” Libertarians’ part. Just, no.

              And:

              Blaming voters for our own fuckups seems rather … like an alibi.

              I couldn’t agree more.

              See, Hihn, even you and I can agree on stuff!

              1. Now, let me first say that calling Christians “fascists” is absolutely unnecessary,

                I didn’t. False assumption.

                though I admit far too many do indeed act like it.

                THOSE are the Christofascists, So we agree

                See, Hihn, even you and I can agree on stuff!

                I’m glad you can now see that, Please avoid false assumptions on what I say. 🙂

        4. Yeah, Randy just can’t cope with the ass-sex, unfortunately.

    2. Paul and Trump are both against the establishment and much of what it does. Paul thinks he can fix it from within. While I’m a big Rand Paul fan, I don’t agree.

      Trump is willing to get in their faces and tear the establishment down with brute force.

      1. Trump is willing to get in their faces and tear the establishment down with brute force.

        That’s why he’s failing so totally. One can be wildly successful in a family business as an autocrat and bully. But nobody with executive management experience, even at the lowest levels, acts like a dictator, a one-man band, a control-freak. Because nobody good would ever work for them.

        That’s why Trump appeals to goobers, who’ve never achieved anything through others,
        He’s precisely like Carter, in his naivete but not his style. The goobers attacked Reagan for not running around getting involved in anything. But his “kitchen cabinet” was all billionaires and multi-multi-millionaire who had started and built their own large businesses. In 35 years as an Entrepreneur Coach/Consultant, I could learned to spot the doers from the screamers in about 15 minutes, Trump is a screamer, who built hos fortune by shifting assets out of businesses then bankrupting them.

  4. “I am not sure “crazy” is right denominator, but rather, the candidate that would most likely send tbe political and pundit classes into fits of pearl clutching.”

    This. I’ve been saying this a lot, and I hope I’m not boring y’all, but what won Trump the Presidency was being branded as an outsider. I think Sanders (who was also branded as an Outsider) would have done better against Trump than Shrillary did (assuming that the Usual Suspects in the Media had gotten behind him in a way that didn’t compromise the Outsider branding).

    And, mind, it isn’t the REALITY of being an Outsider that matters. Neither Sanders nor Trump is really outside of the political establishment. They aren’t in the rather narrow band of people one expects Presidential Candidates to be picked from, but they are both well spelled in in the inner currents of the Political Class (both sides).

    But the nomination of either was going to give the Usual Suspects the yips. And the yips were certainly had. The Democrat establishment got so scared they pretty brazenly jiggered the nomination process to keep Sanders out … for all the good it did them. I’m convinced that at least half the ‘Trump had the Russians hack the election’ narrative is a desperate effort to keep the Democrat rank and file from realizing that Trump didn’t steal the election, but Shrillary sure stole the nomination.

    Will they succeed in distracting their rank and file? I guess we’ll see, in about four years.

    1. I think the DNC definitely titled the playing field in Hillary’s favor for sure, but I think she would have beaten Sanders regardless. I just don’t think his appeal was broad enough. He consistently did poorly among minority voters, Southern whites, as well as older white voters in a lot of states.

      There was clearly a lot of anti-establishment sentiment on both sides in this election, but I think the fact that Obama was the incumbent president tempered it on the left. You saw this dynamic where Hillary would fall back on defending Obama’s legacy when Bernie’s criticism of the status quo got too harsh, and he’d often have to walk a fine line in his responses to that.

    2. Hillary definitely did not play fair with Bernie, but to say she wouldn’t have won anyway is a stretch in my opinion. She destroyed him by such a wide margin that leaked debate questions probably didn’t make much difference. Media coverage didn’t matter much either because Bernie’s support flatlined for quite a while once he became a known quantity. The majority of Democratic voters really did want Hillary. The real story is that the DNC wanted to discredit and minimize the anti-establishment voice within the party. Perez beating Ellison is evidence that they’ll continue their business as usual

      1. Hillary won the popular vote and lost the Electoral vote by fewer than 100,000 votes in thee states,
        What if Johnson/Weld had had a platform of actual policy solutions. Or just ONE actual policy?.
        He ran a campaign of the anti-gummint faction, libertarian ideas (slogans and soundbites), and NO solutions..
        His only explicit plank was to submit a balanced budget, which said — loudly — that he had no plan for governing, and not no clue how to. (Though his opponents for the LP nomination were even worse)

        Trump won because he was the ONLY candidate talking actual solutions for the matters of most concern to voters.

        1. That comment you replied to was entirely about the Democratic primary, wtf does Trump or Johnson/Weld have to do with that?

          1. Forget it he’s rolling

          2. I was supporting him. Perhaps not. Hillary did incredibly well in the general, but part of that was the failure of Johnson Weld to offer anything at all. And Bernie would not have done near as well — my opinion, We’d have Trump haters vs Bernie haters, instead of Trump’s versus Hillary’s haters.

          3. Terminal autism.

            1. Terminal autism.

              Great minds discuss ideas.
              Average minds discuss events.
              Small Minds discuss people.
              Haters gotta hate
              Blowhards gotta bellow.

              And 12-year-olds gotta call names.
              To them it’s manly.
              Makes up for their tiny penises.
              and tiny hands.

              Others stand up, in self-defense, defiant toward aggression,

        2. Yes, but John Galt is a fairy tale and wasn’t running this election cycle.

          And given that the choices were between Johnson, a guy wanted for murder, and some dude running around in his underwear, I think the LP made the right choice.

          1. Agree. But I’m amazed that Johnson/Weld ran a campaign so totally devoid of content. Gary for sure, Weld maybe, are NOT libertarian establishment, but they ran an establishment campaign, “Ideas” This movement is in deeper trouble than I thought, The libertarian brand is rejected by 91% of libertarians — that 60% majority Johnson/Weld kept talking ABOUT, (per Cato) but the candidates had nothing FOR them.

      2. The funny thing is that Perez and Ellison have really similar views on issues. I recall Perez’s name being thrown out a lot during the VP speculation as someone who could appeal to disaffected progressives. While there tend to be some ideological differences between the two camps, in many cases it seems more about who’s inside and outside “the circle” regardless of views.

  5. WOW! Massie has BALLS. Speak the truth. Ron/Rand Paul was indeed “the craziest son of a bitch in the race.”
    All he missed is that the Paulista Cult fueled the alt-right for over a decade.

    Google to see how often Ron was on InfoWars.com. (Need to Google Ron with both Infowars and Alex Jones)
    Also wacky expectations, like repeal the income tax … run the entire federal government on (mostly) FICA taxes (which are $250 BILLION LESS than annual spending on Medicare alone.) YEAH! Goobers swallow anything!!!!

    1. How….how is this possible? It is still light outside.

      1. How many humans have you fed into wood chippers this week? Head first or feet first.

    2. Do us a favor, Michael. Please don’t ever change.

      1. It’s a simple matter of using Google. And straying outside the tribal cave now and then.
        And having been a political writer for over 30 years. And elected in two different states. And launching a successful tax revolt. And being the first (only?) PAID Director of a state LP. And managing or advising over 100 candidate campaigns. And doing candidate websites since 1993 (or 4).
        It kinda gets instinctive after a while, and most pro-liberty candidates and activists report the same or close to it.

  6. “They were voting for the craziest son of a bitch in the race. And Donald Trump won best in class, as we had up until he came along.”

    Says more about Massie than any of Trump’s supporters. Looks to me like he’s getting an elitist perspective–he better check himself quick.

    To whatever extent people supported Trump for being a “crazy son of a bitch”, it was to reject political correctness and the elitism that has come to represent.

    You know what qualifies as “crazy” right now?

    Repealing the individual mandate and suspending immigration from countries that rife with anti-American terrorism pending a review of screening procedures.

    Better find your way back to “crazy”, Mr. Massie.

    I want to do away with the income tax, Medicaid, and Medicare, defund the NSA, and lay off everyone at the Department of Education, too–and that’s just getting started.

    1. I think you’re taking the “crazy” label a little too literally. Lighten up and stop being so sensitive. Massie included himself, as well as the Pauls (his closest allies, along with Amash, among recent members of Congress) in the category of “craziest son of a bitch.”

      1. And it took welch to point out the irony of massie’s whining. Then again he is a tesla owner.

        1. I didn’t really see it as whining, more of an epiphany that a lot of support for him and the Pauls was not driven strictly by policy or ideology.

        2. ..With a Friend of Coal license plate.

    2. You know what qualifies as “crazy” right now? Repealing the individual mandate

      MIND-fucking crazy … if they keep guaranteed issue. DUH.

      The mandate was the price demanded by the insurance industry, to ignore pre-existing conditions, with the losses offset my forcing younger, healthier ones into the pool. Ever hear of the “death spiral?” Remove the offset (mandate) and premiums are guaranteed higher than Obamacare (for equivalent coverage).

      At that stage. The new “offset” is a MASSIVE premium increase on age 40-65. They aren’t the highest risks, like the pre-existing ones, but they are the absolute highest risk in the “normal” pool,

  7. Anybody who talks about making omelettes should be the first egg that gets broken.

    1. Yeah, isn’t that a Stalin quote?

      1. “I like salad” -Hitler

        1. I knew Hitler was a vegetarian who shunned a nice jewsy steak, but did nobody ever tell him leafy green vegetables are considered rabbi food?

  8. In a just world, Massie’s thoughts and theories would be front page news.

  9. I’m on record (not that anyone cares) before 11/8/16, as saying that a Trump victory would be good for two good reasons: it would shake up the Democrat party (because they lost) and the Republican party (because Trump beat all the other GOPers). If another GOP candidate had won, it would have strengthened the GOP. If Hillary had won, it would have consolidated the Democrats. With a Trump win, it would shake up (and has) both parties. My fear now is that Trump does not realize that the Republican establishment is as big a foe as the Democrats.

    1. I’m not convinced either of those things will be good. The GOP doesn’t seem to be shifting in a more libertarian direction, and the Democrats seem poised to go further left in response to Clinton’s loss, as a very popular narrative for why she lost is that she was too moderate and corporate-friendly and that resulted in progressive voters staying home.

      1. I’ll just say that the current state of the GOP is a lot more fluid than it would have been if a more conservative (not Paul and possibly not Cruz) had won. And the Dem’s moving to the left rather than the center is a shake-up.

        1. It is, I’m just saying that I don’t really view it as a positive.

    2. The Dems’ response to Trump so far is terrifying for a libertarian. They think the popular vote vindicated their approach last year

    3. I’m on record as saying – repeatedly – that a Trump win would be a disaster because it wouldn’t shake up the GOP. It’d just consolidate them behind a liberal New York Rockefeller Republican and allow them to abandon the charade they’ve been playing at for most of my lifetime that they actually give a rat’s ass about smaller, cheaper, less-intrusive government. Trump’s got big ideas about what he wants to use the power of government to accomplish, the GOP’s got big ideas too. Paul, Lee, Amash, Massie, Flake, the old TEA Party faction including Ted Cruz – they’re at the top of the GOP hit list now.

  10. Then there would be a lot more Lyndom Larouche followers

  11. So are we thinking Gary Busey or Charlie Sheen as John McAfee’s running mate in 2020? Is Charlie Manson eligible to run?

    1. How old will Belle Knox be in 2020?

    2. Doesn’t matter. McAfee is bat-shit crazy.

    3. Sheen. Versus Henry Rollins and Shia Lebouf as the D ticket.

  12. How does a voter go from supporting a relatively libertarian Republican to enthusiastically backing Donald Trump?

    She’s anti-government?

    1. WOW! You knocked that one out of the park.

      Anti-government libs have never been liberty lovers — which is why they’ve always been outliers to all of American society. HATING government means looking to destroy it. It requires rejecting “consent of the governed” and “will of the people.” They don’t build. They tear down.

      Loving liberty means looking to expand it, one inch at a time if needed. And “will of the people” means what should be obvious, getting elected.

    2. How does a voter go from supporting a relatively libertarian Republican to enthusiastically backing Donald Trump?

      She’s anti-Hillary? When it came down to Election Tuesday there were a whole lot of folks who voted for Trump only because he was the second-worst option.

  13. As someone who’s from TX-14, I can say we didn’t vote for Dr Paul because he was crazy. Myself, and everyone I know that voted for him did so because they were proud to be electing “Doctor No” the man who was willing to buck the establishment and reign in spending and unnecessary regulation.

  14. They were voting for the destruction of the ruling political class.

    They will vote for a surgeon or an engineer to do this.

    They will also vote for a wrecking ball.

  15. Maybe in a rigged system where only a Democrat or Republican they were voting for Hitler or Satan

  16. OT: The Amazon product bar that appears at the bottom of every article, which always shows products related in some way to the article, is displaying a book entitled “Ron Paul: America’s most Dangerous Nazi”, complete with a cover showing Ron photo shopped in front of a Nazi flag. Had to mention it, since it’s so weird.

  17. It’s not crazy, it’s just that too many “libertarians” have no clue about liberty. I’ve seen current Trump enthusiasts in libertarian meetups, LP central committee meetings, RLC gatherings, Ron Paul campaign leadership, etc.

    Here’s the problem: These same people are the ones who claim the U.S. was a libertarian nation back before Lincoln. Who thought we once had a golden age that we lost. That we had an actual free market gold standard before 1911. They yearn for the day when liberty was only available to the white male landowner.

    They aren’t libertarian, they are conservative in the classic sense of the word. Libertarians are classic liberals, not classic conservatives. These people want the restoration of the old institutions because they mythologize them. Some of those old institutions are good, but there are plenty of them that are down right nasty, and it’s a good thing we got rid of them.

    1. Deep bow of appreciation.

      I love how they get all pious and self-righteous, whispering “What the founders intended” — which they don’t understand, and it failed, and Jefferson knew we’d need a revolution every generation or so.

      Or … watch their heads EXPLODE on the hypothetical extreme, “A President and every member of Congress is elected under a promise to ignore the Constitution entirely, whenever they feel it necessary” …. which the founders clearly intended. I’ve done it. They go ape-shit.

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