Marine Corps' Nude Photo Scandal is Actually a U.S. Military-Wide Scandal
A congressional hearing is scheduled, but will anything change?


The scandalous revelation last week that a private Facebook group for U.S. Marines was used to proliferate nude photos of female military service members appears to be just the tip of the iceberg.
Business Insider reports that the originally reported group of nearly 30,000 members — Marines United — was not the only outlet where military members solicited and shared nude and sexual images of their female colleagues without their consent. Another site, AnonIB, is used for the same purpose, only its reach spreads throughout the U.S. military, not just the Marine Corps. Business Insider also notes that AnonIB's members not only share nude photos of female service members, they frequently identify the women "by name or where they are stationed."
The Marines have promised an investigation, the Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS) is considering pursuing felony charges against the perpetrators, and Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) has scheduled a hearing on the matter before the Senate Armed Services Committee next week. But will any of this matter?
Military members and veterans are rightly revered in this country for their willingness to put their lives on the line in service of the nation. Unfortunately, that reverence — and our political leaders desire to cloak themselves in the military's reflected glory — too often leads to a blind eye being turned on systemic problems requiring urgent attention.
A 2014 study by the RAND Corporation found that almost 5 percent of female military service members were sexually assaulted in the year prior to the study, and that "52 percent of active-component women perceived that they experienced professional or social retaliation after reporting a sexual assault." 22 percent of active duty women reported being sexually harassed that year, as well.
Few institutions in American life are more preternaturally macho than the military, and even minor changes to titles are resisted as political correctness run amok. But for the military to maintain the honor they demand and generally deserve, each service branch should willfully engage the prevalent issues with sexism and abuse which are rampant throughout the service.
And while no politician wants to be perceived as disrespecting the troops, every legislator from Congress to President Trump should be willing to use this scandal as a launchpad to make it clear that no one — not even the heroes of our armed services — can engage in a massive ring of ritual sexual humiliation of other service members, and have it be excused as "boys will be boys." The military's honor requires more than that.
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Congress usually does a good job at keeping young stupid people from doing stupid things.
While they are at, they should do something to stop kids from wanting to take drugs.
Sending pictures of someone is not sexual assault. It is gross and scummy, but in no way were these women assaulted.
Also, many of the pictures were of former or current girlfriends in poses, so said two or tree news stories I saw..
A lot of these women made a huge mistake allowing pictures to be taken by dirt bag guys who then disseminated private illicit photos.
Nothing new here and I doubt this was sanctioned by any official marine body. Stupid guys doing stupid stuff.
To be fair, it wasn't all pics that the girls posted on their instagrams or derpbook--some of them were taken without their knowledge and distributed afterwards.
True, that's not necessarily assault, but even though I don't have a lot of sympathy for the ones who posted pics in their underwear or butt-ass naked of their own accord, some of these women didn't consent to having their image taken and splashed all over the internet, either, and that needs to be taken into account.
Like... while they were asleep? It should be easy to identify those.
No, surreptitiously, as in "Imma take this pic of this fine-ass bitch in the base gym and see what my homies think."
How many nude or sexual pics are you going to get at the gym...? Assuming the locker rooms are sex segregated.
From what I understand you see everyone naked a whole lot in the military, especially on deployments, so really why isn't the story here that if you put nude women in close proximity to teenage or early 20's men what did you actually fucking expect to happen?
That doesn't excuse the individuals, but honestly this was an absolutely expected and inevitable result of having women in the military and if we're being honest there isn't a damn thing anyone can do to stop it. You can only drive it deeper underground.
Young men are stupid, and young men willing to sign up for being shot overseas can be expected to have higher than average decision-making issues.
I'm sure some military regulations were violated, but:
shared nude and sexual images of their female colleagues without their consent
This should be perfectly legal so long as the image was made with their consent.
They didn't consent to have their "likeness" shared with the world. WTF dude?
Which is why I've told me nieces, for years, that sending pics of your tits to boys in your school guarantees that the ENTIRE school will see your tits. It is really stupid to do so.
...yet still do it.
Alas.
Can you send them to me? For um... research purposes?
No. But she also sent them to at least dudes over the age of 40, so they are probably out there somewhere.
But she was 15, so you might want to avoid them.
"At least 3 dudes over 40".
I won't look at them for three years. So should be fine.
The military actually does have an exclusively FYTW law.
Look up article 134 of the UCMJ
"proliferate" = repost the nude pictures the WMs in question posted on their own Instagram pages.
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) has scheduled a hearing on the matter
An 80-year-old talking about ass and titties? Count me in.
These scandals are the only thing that get these guys to come into work.
i'll bet there is a bipartisan congressional bill on Monday - since every single congressman will have viewed the evidence.
And when the grandstanding gets to its most nauseating fevered pitch, who are the retards that listen to politicians at that time?
I mean, how many people listen to skeletor and actually get something out of that canned cliched vitriol?
5%?-seems pretty good compared to what we are supposed to believe happens at colleges. Maybe individuals who take pictures of themselves in the altogether should assume that they are giving up control of those images forever (some of this involves women having their picture taken without their consent, but I suspect that they are a very small minority of those affected).
yeh, really. 5%....isn't that better than the reported rate in the general populace???
That is part of the problem. Women send so many nude photos around that the burden of proof begins to fall on actual victims to demonstrate the pic wasn't consensual.
The scandal of this non-story is that media is making some kind of farce of normal young male behavior. How can it be that there are so many non-journalists who have never been in a locker room and apparently never associated with boys?
Because all men are sexual predators. Didn't you know that?
There has never been a consensual exchange of affection between the sexes. I find that male white college students are exceptionally good at assaulting women. In fact, since I have been on earth for the last 8 years, male white college students seem to be like wild animals roaming the streets raping and pilfering.
Of course if the troops do it, we have to kiss their ass while we call these incidents unfortunate yet OUTRAGEOS.
If a priest does it, press says bad. If a politician does it and he's democrat, we will be told that it is a conspiracy. If a repub does it, he will rightly go to jail.
If someone in Hollywood does it, he will be called a genius.
"""" since I have been on earth for the last 8 years"""
So you are 8 years old or have you been someplace other then Earth prior to 8 years ago?
I once lived on a planet where individual responsibility, accomplishment, and intelligence was looked upon as a virtue and not a privilege.
Also, rational discussion used to happen and outrage did not abound over every single thing that happened.
Also, stupid people suffered the consequences of their actions, privacy was a right and rule of law was applied with consideration.
And guys could call themselves women but they were still just guys because age old science and math used to be indisputable.
I fucking love science.
I am more partial to "because someone said so" science.
I am more partial to "because someone said so" science.
Did that planet also have server squirrels server squirrels?
"There has never been a consensual exchange of affection between the sexes."
Dude, what mid-20th-century decade did you time-warp from?
Are you saying that women don't have the capacity to give consent or be sexually active of their own accord?
Don't get mad Twon.
Twas being sarcastic.
If you read between the lines next wave feminists do actually seem to believe that women don't have agency, which is pretty damn amusing if you think about it.
Young people sext, and then young guys share those sexts with their friends? If NCIS wanted to investigate legitimate crime, they should look at McCain's cozy relationship with the F-35 and all of the contractors.
If someone gives someone else their picture, freely taken and freely given, that person can do whatever they want with the picture.
This is men telling each other how hot the women they've dated/hooked up with are--as they have always done. The difference is that today multimedia is involved. websites, images and films provided freely.
No crime has been committed here. No 'assaults' have taken place.
If someone gives someone else their picture, freely taken and freely given, that person can do whatever they want with the picture.
I think that's the *other* kind of possession. I'm pretty sure they're talking about the demon kind of possession where someone can take a picture of you and, because it's imbued with your spirit, prevent you from doing your job or make your superiors hate you.
Unless it's given on the specific understanding that it is to be kept private. I even think that perhaps, in some circumstances, such an agreement could be inferred even if it were not stated explicitly. But were these pictures freely taken and freely given to anyone? That is not clear at all. The circumstances under which they were taken, and under which they were obtained, is certainly relevant to any investigation. But our society does imbue certain body parts with a greater expectation of privacy than others, so perhaps, in some circumstances, an agreement to keep photographs showing them private can legitimately be inferred, even if not stated explicitly (no pun intended on that last word).
Yeah, I do wish there was an edit button, as I wound up including a sentence twice.
Two people can keep a secret--if one of them is dead.
Spoken or unspoken, a picture given freely, belongs to the person it was given to. What they do with it is up to them. No matter what anyone else thinks should be done with it.
Pictures and video not freely given are a whole different situation and fall under a wholly different set of laws. If any of those are in the mix they should be treated accordingly.
Spoken or unspoken, a picture given freely, belongs to the person it was given to. What they do with it is up to them. No matter what anyone else thinks should be done with it.
Any given clothed butt or sideboob pic can get several hundred thousand likes/followers pretty readily. The fact that these celebrities and women who leak (or have leaked, w/e) pics that contain the equivalent photographic evidence to convince Dave Chappelle to convict R. Kelly are idiots and should almost universally have their cases vacated.
Certainly, if I lock my house and you force your way in, you've broken the law. But if I don't lock my house or leave the front door open, I'm not entirely innocent if you find your way in. If I leave the front door open and my birth certificate, driver's license, credit cards, car keys, and mother's maiden name on the credenza, I'm an unequivocal idiot and deserve no help from anyone collecting a dime of taxpayer money. Extrapolate as necessary to paid employees of the state provided a barracks, locks, and instructions on how to use them.
How acceptable would it be to paint some of the WWII bomber mascot pictures on the nose of today's planes?
If you don't want your nude picture on the internet, then don't give out nude pictures. What is shocking is how dumb some people are and do we want such people in our military?
I'll wait until NCIS: Facebook dramatizes the situation for me to digest.
Apparently Reason's chatters don't know what "consent" means.
No, they're just all really into the third-party doctrine.
You told us you'd keep that a secret!
Agreed that they should not be able to send nude pictures of someone around. I believe that to be a violation of someone's privacy.
I do not believe, however, that any form of assault has occurred. Moreover, if these women were dumb enough to allow some dipshit to take a nude photo, they should file a suit for violation of privacy but not defamation or assault and they have little recourse for their stupidity.
I agree that a person should consent to private images, especially nude ones, being shared with anyone.
No different than movie stars being able to sue for private photos being published.
The woman appear to have consented to have their photos taken.
Once a photo is taken it can go anywhere.
Huh, the scale of modern technology and the tendency of Gen-Xers and Millennials to overshare has its downfalls. Who knew?
Funny thing is, 30-40 years ago leftists would be mocking concerns over the decline of personal modesty as prudery. Neoliberals are the new Puritans, apparently.
Hey, don't you lump us in there. Most of us grew up when sharing meant passing a Polaroid around. And we were raised better than that anyway hmph!
""""Marine Corps' Nude Photo Scandal is Actually a U.S. Military-Wide Scandal"""""
Isn't this a world wide internet scandal? Isn't that why the internet was invented to pass around nude photos?
This seems entirely typical of 20 year old men.
Honestly I think it is a fool's errand to try to civilize a group of young men who were self selected for a willingness to kill people.
And I think women are foolish for letting men take pictures of them if they aren't willing to share. What do they expect to happen to these pics after a breakup?
I likewise think it is dumb for college girls to get drink in frat houses.
Yes,I am blaming the victim. These examples are just too predictable.
You know what else is foolish? Trying to get 20-year-old men to wake up at 5:00 AM and keep their rooms clean. But the military keeps rolling that boulder up the hill.
Actually isn't that hard at all Hugh.
Now, I'm unfamiliar with the U.S. military policy on the matter, but military regulations up here have actively ensured that this will be an increasing problem. You know what's a smart idea? Banning pornography on ships as soon as women are allowed to serve on them. That will have no effect on young men in an enclosed environment. Might as well try to ban the use of prostitutes at port and demand sailors be asexual.
Let me know when Republicans truly disavow socialist medical programs. Where is the clamoring among patriotic, free-market Republicans for the repeal of Medicare? Is that off the table because Obama didn't invent it?
I will now move this to the appropriate room whilst blaming squirrelz.
The thing that bothers me about this is that a segment of the anti-military Left is going to carry on as if these were cases of rape. Now, setting aside the pictures that women posed for (having a picture you sent your dirtbag sweetie distributed over the internet like a trophy is the punishment you get for being a dumb twunt), the men who took pictures without consent need to be briskly kicked in the balls. Bit it isn't,rape. Rape is an order of magnitude worse. At LEAST an order of magnitude. And the self-described 'feminists' who use the charge of rape to attack men who were, at worst, assholes, is an insult to every single woman who has ever actually been raped. There is a special place in hell for 'feminists' who conflate taking pictures with rape, bedding a girl who is going to regret it later with rape, unwanted fondling with rape. And that special place involves violent penetration, so they will know the f*cking DIFFERENCE.
"The thing that bothers me about this is that a segment of the anti-military Left is going to carry on as if these were cases of rape."
I understand that carrying on is very bad, but personally, I found this much more bothersome: "52 percent of active-component women perceived that they experienced professional or social retaliation after reporting a sexual assault."
The thing that bothers me about this is that a segment of the anti-military Left is going to carry on as if these were cases of rape.
The whole thing is top-to-bottom, front-to-back idiocy.
It's like a real-world bizzaro version of "The Emporer's New Clothes" where the little kid at the end gets locked in the stockade, labeled a sex offender, and everyone lives happily ever after.
No, it isn't all idiocy. There is a huge problem, and the fuckheads who thought this was OK need to be stockaded. At the same time, there needs to be some sense injected into the whole debate on women in the military. Like, what do the jobs actually require, and can the women do the jobs. Because as long as the girls need the guys to cover for them, the guys are going to resent the PC crap that has them working extra, the girls are going to be regarded as 'splits', and a singnificant culture of mysogyny WILL result.
John McCain is starting to remind me of Grandpa Simpson.
Veterans should be treated just like anyone else by the law. A) they got paid b) by taxpayers, so I'm pretty sure there's no debt. I do think veterans should be treated with some basic amount of respect, but that's only because they're part of the "everyone" category. If you owe someone eternal social and legal deference in addition to college and their (not as in "their fault", as in " for their use) shitty excuse for healthcare in exchange for a couple years of their life, you got, as our president would say, a bad deal.
I joined the Navy in 95, and was in one of the first classes to have women in Naval Nuclear Power. At that time, the Navy was still reeling from Tailhook, so it seemed that many of my male classmates and instructors were hypersensitive to any kind of sexual harassment or appearance of. Doors were left open during meetings if I was the only female, and often times I had to suffer a third party "witness" during things like eval sessions.
The biggest issue I had to face was the occasionally salty senior chief who didn't like they were admitting women "into their nuclear navy".
I didn't even hear whispers of sexual assaults, and I probably would have as you cannot do jack shit in the military without someone knowing. I did see and deal with some of my fellow female sailors acting...unbecoming. On one carrier I was stationed on, I was tasked with counselling another on not playing grab ass with her boyfriend and there were plenty of examples of indiscriminate behavior with shipmates. If the command caught wind of a "relationship" they had ZERO issue with sticking their nose in to make sure all parties were clear on the rules.
Now I am not saying that I condone what is going on here, particularly with violations of privacy for some of them. Sneaking a pic of a shipmate while she is showering should be cause for a smackdown and a boot, IMO.
I joined the Navy in 95, and was in one of the first classes to have women in Naval Nuclear Power. At that time, the Navy was still reeling from Tailhook, so it seemed that many of my male classmates and instructors were hypersensitive to any kind of sexual harassment or appearance of. Doors were left open during meetings if I was the only female, and often times I had to suffer a third party "witness" during things like eval sessions.
The biggest issue I had to face was the occasionally salty senior chief who didn't like they were admitting women "into their nuclear navy".
I didn't even hear whispers of sexual assaults, and I probably would have as you cannot do jack shit in the military without someone knowing. I did see and deal with some of my fellow female sailors acting...unbecoming. On one carrier I was stationed on, I was tasked with counselling another on not playing grab ass with her boyfriend and there were plenty of examples of indiscriminate behavior with shipmates. If the command caught wind of a "relationship" they had ZERO issue with sticking their nose in to make sure all parties were clear on the rules.
Now I am not saying that I condone what is going on here, particularly with violations of privacy for some of them. Sneaking a pic of a shipmate while she is showering should be cause for a smackdown and a boot, IMO.
Yep. Co-ed military as a whole has some complicated issues that need to be worked out. This is just a symptom of a much larger problem, and it should be corrected through discipline, but stuff like this isn't going to go away until we address the bigger picture.
"but stuff like this isn't going to go away until we address the bigger picture."
The 'bigger picture?' He means the Rape Culture.
I know our solution to this problem up here, radical feminist lectures about 'rape culture' to the troops, have been overwhelmingly successful.
Oh wait, they've done nothing.
I'm still of the opinion that modern militaries need an equivalent of the old French method if you want to see problems like this decline.
Yes, (/Sarcasm On) because making sexually transmitted diseases rampant throughout the battalions (so they can be spread to the home front) and a locus for enemy females to infiltrate are both just wonderful ideas!
military sex assault 5%
college sex assault 20%*
your point being?
*i know, i know.. just throwing the stat back at em
That's largely due to segregation and military particularly Marines being held on a tight leash.
Our combat unit flipped a shit about 2DMARDIV trying to temporarily house females in our barrack. BN made them send them to Recon or Engineer school because they likely would have been raped/assaulted/battered.
" they likely would have been raped/assaulted/battered."
Why stop there? Killing a girl shouldn't be too much to ask of a combat unit.
Squirrels!!
BTW, I was one of those folks who did get irked with the proposed change in ratings. I worked my ass off for EM various ranks (SW). Nuke school was no fucking joke back then.
These are largely the same people who were sexting in high school within four to eight years ago and it is not something that could be dealt with. Now that they have joined the military they were just going to stop? Now it is "systematic problem requiring urgent attention". Why? Because they are military?
Especially with news reports on this burying his a good chunk of this stuff was extant, even professional civilian porn.
No, they shouldn't be. They do a job for money and get told of the "glory" of "protecting their country" when in reality they are just a mechanism to increase the power of a certain government. Most of them should be pitied, not revered.
-Ex-Marine NCO, Haditha 2007-08
Most should be loathed for being such power hungry psycho path POS but whatever.
-Belligerent "Retired DOD Contractor"
FYI I coined that...its technically accurate.
Most I knew weren't power hungry psychos, they were the ones who suffered under them and left the "service".
BTW, the retention rate for first term Marines was right around 25% in 2008.
The few good ones i knew never reenlisted. I think i can recall maybe 10-20 decent human beings that were marines out of the 5000 I met over my 4.4 years before retiring. And most of those were retirees lol. I think from the 2000 people I met in my MOS maybe 5 were decent human beings.
oh and maybe 2 were my MOS and the other 3 or so were admin/intel lol
Yeah, my unit was so jacked up and we were so mistreated that the ONLY first termers who reenlisted did so because they had a family and didn't want to risk being without a paycheck.
for US it was either people who couldnt make it in the real world or loved the douche baggery.
@ ex-marine-
THANK YOU (and NOT 'for your service (to Empire)') for your pushback on that nausea-inducing warrior-worship bullshit... that 'reason' of all places should engage in that kneejerk sophistry pretty much decimates any bona fides on the subject... just another suckup to Empire, after all, huh reasonites...
really disgusting, totally unnecessary and simply reflexive veneration of a cohort who should not be venerated, but excoriated...
like ex-marine said, I have pity for the desperate whose -practically speaking- ONLY 'job' they can get is as part of the killing machine of Empire; BUT, at some point, I have to say: how fucking stupid are you, desperate jobless person, that you don't realize your 'service' has NOTHING to do with 'protecting 'murika' or 'spreading democracy', but is ALL about 'defending' the profits of the .1% ? ? ?
at what point do I call members of the military compliant and complicit quislings, not heroes ? ? ?
While I was in the Marine Corps, I was in a (somewhat self-induced) information vacuum. I was only interested in surviving the jerks in my unit (first), keeping my sanity (second), and trying not to let any enemy shoot me (third). Yes, in that order.
I couldn't tell you the Ds won the 2006 election. I had no idea. I had no idea about anything other than what I needed in order to survive, until I got out.
I tested about as high as you could on the military intelligence test, I graduated Summa Cum Laude in Economics 4 years later. I was homeschooled and taught to not trust politicians, and not even I understood these things until after I got out.
So, yes, I may have been an idiot, but I'm fairly certain I wasn't, and I just got duped. So it's very difficult for me to blame others for missing what I couldn't see.
Tell me why would anyone want to see a wooggie monster (Female Marines..IIRC West coast thing) naked?
Here is a shocking solution to this problem. Destigmitize nudity and sexuality. Then no one will care if nude or sexual photos of someone is released.
Yeah, let's unilaterally change a huge chunk of the mores of Western culture. Should be easy, right?
Yeah we should. Raise your kids not to be prude morons and if something like this happens they won't care. Very simple.
Yeah we should. Raise your kids not to be prude morons and if something like this happens they won't care. Very simple.
^This!^ Is the perfect example what you should say if you ever want to prove you don't know dick about parenting (or anything really).
This one weird trick will solve all your body and identity issues!
Not necessarily as hard as you think actually.
It has been succcessfully done intentionally at least twice in our lifetimes with smoking and with drunk driving and the more against nudity while probably more deeply ingrained and been around longer it doesn't have any greater logical backing
RE: Marine Corps' Nude Photo Scandal is Actually a U.S. Military-Wide Scandal
A congressional hearing is scheduled, but will anything change?
Umm...don't we have enough problems in the country without worrying about something as chickenshit as a bunch of naked jarheads?
No.
OK.
I stand corrected.
Yea this reminds me of the CNN video from remy....bad priorities.
Hell we had people drink themselves to death beccause the place was so shitty.....but 2DMARDIV did its best to appease people and cover it up with a bullshit funeral in mainside.
People didn't drink themselves to death because 2dMarDiv is shitty. They drank themselves to death because they had a drinking problem or succumbed to peer pressure.
Trust me, they drank themselves to death because (in very large part) to their unit being dicks (pardon my French).
I watch someone go from drinking a normal amount (for a Marine), to eventually drinking themselves to death simply due to being assigned a new unit (mine). Every first term Marine who got assigned to my unit got quite depressed immediately afterwards, ending with several on suicide watch and one dead.
I assume you mean well, but this is one thing you likely don't know about. This isn't "idiot drank too much while partying", this is "guy couldn't take it anymore and the human liver can only do so much for so long a time".
This is a fork of a recent Marine tradition referred to as "making her famous." Your girlfriend or wife dumps you, you forward every nude picture you have of her to every Marine you know, and they do the same, etc etc, ad infinitum. And for revenge purposes, it never bothered me. But this is violating the privacy of your sisters in arms for nno good reason than they are there, and that is intolerable. I hope the court martial boards make liberal use of the general article, and conduct unbecoming.
Apparently young men aged 18-25 like looking at naked women. Scandalous.
Too much press on this, Marines are going down on this one. Even if no specific laws were broken the military always has Art 134 UCMJ, a catch all where they can charge about anything under this. On another note, as a whole women Marines are not very good looking. Don't know where they found these naked WM's that one would want to see naked.
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The law of unintended consequences is obeyed. Bambi, you hit the proverbial nail on the head in the final three paragraphs of your comment.
This sounds fine, in principle. The problem is that when the military first faced the issue they poisoned the well by establishing fitness standards that they knew a) few if any women could meet and b) were entirely unrealistic. I used to know this in detail, becuase I knew a bunch of military people in SF fandom who talked to me abiut it, but a lot of it has gone hazy. The one I still remember was the assertion that women couldn't throw fragmentation grenades far enough to be outside their kill radiud. My military contacts remarks? "We call people who throw grenades and don't get behind hard cover 'casualties'".
So, the military started out by undermining the whole concept of gender neutral standards, and from that point the Feminsts had a very effective argument for not accepting such.
Which doesn't make the Feminists right, mind.