Jon Haidt Hopes Libertarians Can Save Us From Coddled Campus Culture

The social psychologist openly admits he wants to create a schism in academia.


Jon Haidt at SFLcon
Stephanie Slade

At the International Students for Liberty Conference (ISFLC) in Washington, D.C., this morning, New York University social psychologist and The Righteous Mind author Jonathan Haidt suggested that libertarians have a critical role to play in combatting the victimhood culture that's been exploding on America's college campuses in the last few years.

In 2015, Haidt and Greg Lukianoff of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education teamed up to write a blockbuster Atlantic cover story called "The Coddling of the American Mind." In it, they drew attention to just how spectacularly colleges are failing to prepare students to think critically and deal with adversity.

Since then, things have only gotten more insane. Over the course of an hourlong breakout session, Haidt detailed everything that's going wrong with campus culture and how worried he is about what it means for the future. "For the first time in my life, I think this could continue to escalate to the point that democratic institutions start to break down," he concluded.

Haidt plugged Heterodox Academy, the platform he started to bring together scholars to resist these developments, which features resources students can use to encourage the administrators at their schools "to do three things: adopt the Chicago principles on free expression, implement a non-obstruction policy—meaning you can't shut people down. You can protest, you can wave signs, but you can't stop a person from speaking. And finally, please, university, give us some viewpoint diversity."

The goal of the project is, he openly admits, to create a schism in academia.

"We have a gigantic market failure where almost all of the elite schools are going down this road," he said, "but most parents don't want their kids to go to such a school. Now, the parents are never going to sacrifice prestige, so no matter how far left they go, parents are always going to want their kids to get into the top schools. But if credible alternatives arise," that can shake up the scary status quo. "So at Heterodox Academy what we're trying to do is really praise the schools that say, 'We're going to produce a neutral platform and you guys can argue it out,'" he said. "Chicago and [the University of] Virginia are two of my top hopes, because they have long traditions on free speech. We're trying to create a schism so that Brown and other schools like it just become ever more like viper pits, where even the students are saying, 'This is insane.' And the students at Chicago are saying, 'Oh, it's really cool. We can argue about anything.' My hope is that students and parents will flock to the ones that aren't viper pits."

Haidt then said he thinks classical liberals like those at the conference are particularly suited, and situated, to be effective advocates on these positions. Looking at research on how different groups are viewed on campus, he noted that "conservatives are poison. They're seen as just racists [like] Milo and Trump. But as far as I can tell, libertarians aren't really hated. The left looks at you kind of warily. You confuse them, but that's good. That's an opening."

"At Heterodox Academy we've noticed that there are not a lot of conservatives out there in the academy," he added. "What there are are libertarians and centrists. That's the main kind of diversity we have to work with. And this is not about having conservatives in the academy. What we need is to not have orthodoxy. So the more you guys can raise your voices and question things, the better."

Follow Haidt on Twitter for more on all of this. Follow me on Twitter for more from ISFLC.

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  1. I Heart Haidt

    (tried to put the Heart symbol in there but the comments rejected it, oh well)

    1. Omg you support Haidt speech?!

        1. Shit, I knew I should have asked Swiss to train me.

          1. Now you want the Swiss to *train* you? On time I assume?

            1. I hear they make great watches.

  2. The amount of clicks starting to sting? Unusual amount of Sat posts.

    1. The more you feed it the more it posts. It doesnt argue in good faith. Let it starve

  3. I give Trump a lot of credit for showing that people are resilient in the face of horrible insults, abuse, threats and intimidation. This directly contradicts the leftist mantra that ‘hate speech’ causes mental illness and violence – which is simply a modern day version of witchcraft and leads to witch hunts and wars. Yes, libertarians can definitely take advantage of this opening – assuming we can root out and neutralize the faux-libertarian infiltrators trying to discredit us. (E.g. Tulpa, Weigel, BP, Tony and AddictionMyth.)

    1. Was Weisel ever a “faux-libertaran trying to discredit us”? I think the fairest (and most accurate) reading of his work was that he was and is a liberal with libertarian leanings. On the Fifth Column podcast, Welch expressed surprise that the WaPo ever thought he was a conservative or libertarian when they hired him the first time.

    2. >AddictionMyth

      I thought you got AmSocked until I scrolled down. I literally have no idea what’s going through your head anymore. Congrats, I guess.

  4. “But as far as I can tell, libertarians aren’t really hated.”

    Up until recently, leftists simply ignored libertarians. That changed with the Ron Paul movement. Until the Johnson/Weld campaign self-destructed, libertarians continued to garner unfavorable comment from the left.

    Haidt should consider that, whenever a leftist expressed loathing of neo-liberalism and capitalism, it was an expression of hatred toward libertarians.

    With the self-destruction of the Johnson/Weld campaign and the ascendancy of Trump, the left can once again ignore libertarians. The left’s priority must be to destroy Trump. But make no mistake: the left hates libertarians.

    1. The left hates. Period. Maybe there was a time when that wasn’t true, but it has been the core of Leftist politics since about 1968, if not earlier.

      1. But they can only keep it up for two minutes at a time, because they’re low energy. Sad!

        Well, at least we get to live rent-free in their heads. I hope they have an XBox in there.

      2. Comrade Lenin agrees. In 1923, V.I. Lenin declared to the Soviet Commissars of Education, “We must teach our children to hate. Hatred is the basis of communism.” In his tract Left-Wing Communism, Lenin asserted that hatred was “the basis of every socialist and Communist movement.”

        I used to say that the Democratic Party was a coalition of special interests that was united by envy. It now seems as though that coalition is united by hatred.

        1. Having these people quote Karl Popper on tolerance of intolerance is one of the cringiest aspects of the current moment.

    2. Haidt should consider that, whenever a leftist expressed loathing of neo-liberalism and capitalism, it was an expression of hatred toward libertarians.

      I was continually amazed how the “austerity” budgets in Europe were met with such venom. Who knew that demanding that governments live within their means should form the basis of riots.

      1. The best of those were the ones carrying a huge banner that said “Anarchists Against Austerity” on it.

        Anarchy: You’re doing it wrong.

  5. The main criticism of libertarianism from the left is “You guys are principled but crazy”. They definitely don’t hate us. So how about we stop pretending that they do? Trump opened up a tremendous opportunity for us to find common ground – the progs can now appreciate that if they give government a lot of power it can be easily used against them. The feds are now as likely to give you food stamps as arrest you for protesting or teach your children creationism or shut down your favorite local taco shop. It’s really a great opportunity – let’s not waste it, mkay?

    1. That would be nice, but if it were true we wouldn’t be seeing proggy hitpieces about the great libertarian menace on every shitty clickbait site all the time. I have heard the “principled but crazy” version maybe once in my life, the rest doesn’t bear repeating. And as has been reported here, now they think they can justify actual violence against us.

      As far as “allies” goes, libertarians don’t have allies, only interests. If you want to help, great. If not, don’t expect shit.

      To be perfectly fair, you might not want to expect shit anyway.

      1. Don’t speak to it

        1. Calling me ‘it’ is a Nazi technique intended to dehumanize me. Thanks for the demonstration, please continue:

        2. Sorry, I mostly do this for my own amusement. Not seriously expecting to change his mind on anything, sadly.

          It’s the weekend, it’s a very nice day out, and I’ve been shitposting since I got up, which was before sunrise.

          I’m beginning to think I have a problem.

          1. If you would call him out for referring to me as ‘it’ you might have more success. Go ahead and give it a try:

          2. The more you feed it the more it posts. It doesnt argue in good faith. Let it starve

            1. Thanks again for demonstrating that insults and bullying do not hurt me – only make me stronger. Please, proceed:

      2. Wow you libertarians are really angry. Maybe time for a nap?

      3. Please don’t feed the vermin. They carry diseases and we’d rather their encouraged to wonder off and dies somewhere else.

    2. For several decades I have worked on local non-partisan issues many times with leftists. In talking and debating with them over those years what I have found is that libertarians confuse them because we do not fit in the current left-right paradigm. This has led some to think that we are not sincere. I have actually been told that. They just can’t wrap their heads around the fact that I can support same-sex marriage but not support the ‘Free Mumia’ cause; that I was against the local city using eminent domain to benefit some big corporation but the same time not support the local school bond initiative.

      1. I hate it when people call Milo a libertarian. Also Peter Theil. They take some libertarian positions but they completely mess them up with things like “And then we should round up all the women/muslims and kill them.” Well that’s a simplification of course, but you get the idea.

        1. Well, to be fair….. if you are a gay guy, a religious group that has established many theocracies across the globe where being gay is not only illegal, but is punishable by death might make you a bit skeptical of that religion.

          And if you a a politically active, libertarian leaning gay man you might end up at odds with modern feminists, since they have a tendency to hold up all things male as the enemy. Remember, this group of feminists are the ones who actually took the time to call out transgender women as being “not real women” and as such not being welcome in the feminist tent as full speaking members – a position only open to “real women” who share modern feminist values.

          You’ll note that the left tends to burn their apostates. The left “owns” minorities like women, african-americans, gays, lesbians, etc. So a black conservative is anathema and must be destroyed. See Clarence Thomas et. al. And conservative women are not just dismissed, they are spit upon. An LGBTQAI libertarian? Unpossible! They all must join the progressive collective or they must be destroyed.

          At this moment in history, a straight, white man can be a conservative or libertarian. Because they are already the source of the problem to the Progressive mind, and have been loudly excluded from having a voice by the ladder of victimhood. Anyone else who dares to join them must be made an example of. This is how they maintain their power base.

          1. I still do not understand how any man can be a “progressive”–it’s so unmanly! You need someone else to support you and make decisions for you? Your logical brain doesn’t tell you XYZ is a better solution to a problem government swallows up (healthcare, “safety mandates”, “environmentalism” etc). I understand there exists some unique barriers culturally to exploring libertarian/conservativism in certain communities but how does the logical brain not see the bullshit seriously? I have all the raging irrationality and emotions of most everyone with a vagina but an extremely logical brain which overpowers them in the political arena. A man who does not, really isn’t a man in my mind. Even self described liberal men are almost always easy to convert to the logical side in my experience, and the few who aren’t are such “victims” (of rich ppl, of corporations, of classism) and usually TERRIBLE at math. They probably go hand and hand.

          2. This is not an exaggeration. I’m a black lesbian living in the bay area. All of my social identities are the property of the left. If I try to assert any libertarian principles in debate, I am promptly shut down or, with a look off pity, told that I just don’t understand because I’m too privileged.

            1. Nice story, but that was a dead giveaway. Two people on a single libertarian comment thread professing to have vaginas? Clearly a pile of sock-puppetry.

              Everyone knows that only unmarried, basement-dwelling dudes are libertarians.

    3. I think there’s 3 major criticisms of libertarians from the left.

      1) You are actually on Team Red.

      2) You are selfish.

      3) You are naive.

      1. Funny, those are exactly what the rest of the world has been hypothesizing about them lately.

  6. LOL – we have on this page some nice examples of anarch0-frankentrumpkencuck faux-libertarians.

    1. Yeah, then there a Progtarians faux-libertarians like you…

      1. it’s not a faux-libertarian; it’s a troll … and a boring, dimwitted one at that

        1. It’s a prog. All 3 of it.

          1. You guys call anyone that is not a conservative a troll.

            1. The guy who thiinks dajal is something other than a prog troll. Yeah, another concern troll outs himself.

  7. We also have a nice demonstration of hate speech and bullying – but note how the victim is only strengthened by it. This is a big reason for why speech codes won’t work – they deprive people of the opportunity to learn and grow and become more resilient.

  8. So anyway, how is letting the rest of the institutions rot away into even worse “viper pits” by drawing all the dissenting students away magically supposed to change anything? And he’s assuming people don’t keep sending their kids to these schools *because* they’re viper pits, as long as it’s the correct kind of vipers. This would surprise me greatly.

    And then if the progs ever want to pull some kind of lawfare attack on private academies, they’ll have all their enemies neatly segregated into one big fat easy target, which will leave only the system they completely control.

    It’s kind of like the misconception that a “marketplace of ideas” naturally rewards objectivity and open debate, where in practice it’s been the exact opposite, people flock to extreme narrowcasters who confirm their worldview. Not that a marketplace of ideas isn’t a praiseworthy principle in and of itself, but if you expect it to fix this you’ll be disappointed.

    I wish them well, and what they’re doing seems well-intentioned, but we all know how that goes.

    1. Everything is terrible. Just terrible. Why do I even bother.

  9. We have a gigantic market failure

    There’s a market in higher education?!?!

    1. You guys aren’t all over this? Why is this not a market failure? I thought the dogma is that’s impossible! C’mon! Sic’m!

      1. I think it might have been Don Boudreaux that said most things described as market failures are actually examples of markets not being allowed to operate.

        Regardless, there is a market in higher education, but the “customers” aren’t exclusively the students and parents, because they aren’t paying the full price of their education. And it’s hardly what we would call a free market.

        1. If we can call a heavily government subsidized and regulated system that focuses on giving everybody but the students what they want is a “market” then I guess it’s a market failure. And when good teachers and students are consistently getting driven out of the system by political cliques, maybe the real purpose isn’t education.

          1. That’s more like it. I was blanking on a good answer.

  10. I offer my hand to all in good faith. If you are interested – you know where to start.

  11. We interrupt this comment thread for an important public service announcement.

    Every day, millions of trolls in America traverse dangerous sex traffic, through ten feet of snow, uphill both ways, five miles there and ten miles back, to go to work without the food, clothing, or medicine. Not even clean socks to make more sockpuppets out of. Or they get their sockpuppets banned because their rickety fingers couldn’t find the capslock key, forcing them to use the same disease-ridden pixels the spammers bathe in. But for just 0.0001 bitcoin a day, you can adopt a troll and give them the livesaving energy drinks, clean underwear, and non-semen-encrusted keyboard they need to support themselves and their families, and mildly annoy everybody else. Call today, or we’ll keep playing that fucking Sarah MacLachlan song until it gets stuck deep within your mind, like a horrifyingly detailed silicone dildo that an under-sexually-trafficked troll “accidentally sat on” while waiting for his free-range organic microwave burrito to cool. It’s not too late. Call today.

    In the aaarrrmmmsss ooofff the aaangeeels, wah ho wah how ah, i dunnooo the words but something something….

    1. And while they may not be as strong as apes, don’t lock eyes with them. Don’t do it. It puts them on edge. They might go into berzerker mode, come at you like a whirling dervish, all fists and elbows. You might be screaming, ‘No! No! No!” but all they hear is ‘Who wants cake?

  12. These “liberals” on campus who supposedly aren’t taken aback by libertarians, aren’t they the same ones who think it’s okay to punch “white male libertarians who wanna talk about free speech”?


    If there are any honest liberals left on campus, they better save themselves. Don’t depend on libertarians to save you from your own monsters.

    And I wouldn’t expect taxpayers to keep underwriting life on campus with their tax dollars much longer either. Did you know that Berkeley used to not charge tuition? That changed quickly! Why would the voters want to pay taxes for kids to organize all day and protest against . . . taxpayers? It didn’t take Reagan long to figure out that average working people don’t want to pay for privileged kids that openly hate them.

    Get a job and pay your tuition yourself!

    I’d rather they burned my tax money than spent it on teaching elitist kids to hate half the country for being Republican, white, Christian, blue collar, etc. Incidentally, I’d rather they burned my tax dollars than spent it teaching kids to hate Democrat, black, Muslim, wealthy, etc. too–but that’s really beside the point.

    Average people won’t put up with this forever.

    1. Ken, are you not aware of the other site?

      I’m actually sad that things deteriorated this quickly.

      1. Yo Beach boy! Please shoot it to me, email in my handle.
        Unless its G*********, I know about that one. But yeah, this place is kinda a shell of its former self.
        Kinda wierd.

          1. How do we go about proving we’re not Tulpa and gaining access to said “other site”?

      2. What are you guys even going on about?

        1. We’re not invited because we’re Tulpa.

    2. We hate you because you’re morons who control the country and whose entire politics consists of shitting on us even if you have to destroy the planet in the process.

      1. Well, we hate you because you’re a smelly poopy head.
        Also, fuck off slaver.

      2. Scott Pruitt is going to dismantle the EPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA and dump barrels of mercury in all rivers!!!!! Muh climate.

      3. We hate

        We know.

      4. You’re right. I have Mattis on speed dial. Texting him as I speak to suggest he should have earth nuked from orbit. How’d you catch on to our plan?

      5. We control the country now? Fuck yeah! Now we can leave everybody alone!

        My first order as Geek-Emperor for Life or Until I Get Bored Whichever Comes First:

        “Be excellent to each other.”

        Or not, I ain’t judgin’ you.

        If I think of anything else I’ll announce it later.

        1. I keep telling the GF, when the libertarians take over you won’t even notice.

  13. “libertarians have a critical role to play in combatting the victimhood culture that’s been exploding on America’s college campuses in the last few years”

    To be sure

    1. I guess it depends on what kind of schism they want to create. I’m not a big fan of ray schism, fay schism, comma schism, or even social schism. I think an ore schism would be much more pleasant overall for everybody involved.

      1. is this just “weekend gibberish”, or should you be added to the Mute-Society?

        1. It’s the weekend. Sorry, just trying to cheer everybody up. Or at least cheer myself up. Holy shit this year sucks.

          I hope you’re doing well this weekend, regardless of any difference of opinion we might have about anything.

  14. You misspelled “principles” in “Chicago Principals”.

  15. You could always teach yourself.

  16. I think this could continue to escalate to the point that democratic institutions start to break down,

    Every cloud has a silver lining.

    “Hey hey, ho ho! non-voluntary institutions have got to go ” !

  17. Sometimes you have to think that there’s no reason to give a fuck about these snowflakes. But really, there is. We should try to save them. They’re actually the future of American, which is now looking very scary. Just imagine 1984 for real.

    1. Yeah, if I had any fucks remaining in my inventory, and/or if I had any future, that would be quite a moral dilemma.

  18. I see Faux News is reporting the Blind Sheik, Omar Abdel-Rahman, the one the (((intelligence agencies))) want you to believe was behind the 1993 WTC bombing, has died. I have no idea why they want us to believe this fake news, but we know they lie all the time and you can’t believe a word they say so I’m not assuming he’s dead. I’m also sure Bush was behind the WTC bombing just like he was the one behind the bigger, more successful attack on 9/11, so I’m sure he’s involved in this somehow.

    1. The WTC never actually existed to begin with. It was holograms the whole time. Prove me wrong.

    2. You mean the Jew intelligence agencies? Yes?

      1. You know who else was obsessed by the jews? Thats right, folks, Tony is Hitler. Literally.

        1. Is that real Tony or fake Tony? Or real Tony trying to be ironic? Or fake Tony pretending to be real Tony being ironic?

          Who am I?

  19. “Young men need this”


    1. Hey, send me an email…

  20. OT: Hitler reacts to the H&R commentariat revolution. (For you newbies and sometime lurkers, a bunch of long-time commenters have recently moved to the Glibertarians site and to a private Google group.)

    1. Well, this place is ruined! How can the occasional poster who only comes to Reason for the comments get the official invite?

      1. The official invite to all has been posted in the AM and PM links. I’m not sure from this point forward.

        1. Thanks, Rufus. I just spotted the invite on last night’s lynx.

    2. Heh. EXCELLENT.

      1. It’s excellent. To know where the idea actually came from, read upthread in that post! I want a fucking HT!

        1. Here’s your hat tip. (Or should I say: “I’ve got your hat tip right here”?) I’d have up voted your comment but the capability is not there.

      1. The next minute is amazing.

      2. Fantastic!

    3. *Very* well done. 8-(

    4. LMAO, for reals. Great stuff. Though I wish he’d called him the “Jackenf?hrer”.

    5. Okay, that’s pretty funny.

    6. That downfall parody is a pretty accurate assessment of why some of the most interesting commenters left.

      Too bad. Taking one day with another, the commenters here were among the very best informed and lively debaters on the internet.

    7. I just saw this. Jesus surfboarding Christ, was it funny.

    8. If you’re invited I think I’ll just go read a book instead. “Libertarian nationalism” still has me laughing though.

      1. That’s fine with me. And I think libertarian nationalism can (and should and will) be a thing.

    9. So Reason is too mean to Trump and not pro republican enough? Got it.

      1. I think you are missing some subtleties.

        1. I am stealing this extremely lovely response for future use.

  21. Speaking of “The Coddling of the American Mind”:
    Publishers are hiring ‘sensitivity readers’ to flag potentially offensive content

    Meh. Just preface everything with: “The story, all names, characters, and incidents portrayed in this production are fictitious. No identification with actual persons (living or deceased), places, buildings, and products is intended or should be inferred.”

    Anyway, AI can do it better, faster, and cheaper.

    1. That’s not enough for SJWs. They need all fiction (and non-fiction) to always have the correct messages.

  22. The amount of naivete (sorry, too lazy to type accents) on display here is impressive.

    My politics are really the politics of anti-politics, and I think ‘activism’ a very dirty word.

    That said, our politics, these days, are just a sophisticated form of tribal warfare. Chait speaks as if he thinks people care about ideas. Unfortunately, politics is not about ideas. It is about fucking the other guy.

    The worst thing that ever happened to the University is that it became a matter of politics. Having done so, it inevitably became less about ideas than about fucking the other guy, because that is what politics is about, and a bit of shit in your food eventually makes it unpalatable.

    “conservatives are poison. They’re seen as just racists [like] Milo,” says Haight. Ok, stop right there- I might not agree with Milo much, or even like him, but he hardly seems a racist to me (he has other problems, but that’s not one of them.) Haidt is complaining that the well is poisoned, and poisoning the well as he’s doing so.

    I don’t like Trump much but if Haidt is the reasonable opposition I’m not particularly surprised by Trump.

    1. No, Haidt says people care about values. That’s what makes politics what it is.

  23. They’re seen as just racists [like] Milo and Trump. But as far as I can tell, libertarians aren’t really hated.

    Anyone notice the pattern? Hint: who is effective at opposing the Left, and who is irrelevant?

    1. who is effective at opposing the Left


  24. Got a link for the Glibertarians site?

      1. I’ll bring the cetaphil.

        1. No, you won’t.

          I personally guarantee it.

          1. LOL – don’t worry PM I know you like it rough. 🙂

      2. Thanks Playa! Even Eddie’s there…

    1. John Philip Sousa was not a one-hit wonder.

      While minstrel songs are well-represented they are under-represented as well.

      1. John Philip Sousa was not a one-hit wonder.

        Oh yeah? how many platinum records does he have, huh? None. Case closed.

        Speaking of “minstrel songs”, i came across this bizarrely-titled record by an italian jazz guy today

      2. Washington ComPost March and Semper Fi don’t get much airplay.

      3. Actually that reminds me of an experience at the Marine Corps Museum last year.

        I got to the exhibit about Sousa, where they had a big screen TV with buttons underneath labeled with the names of four Sousa marches, so you can request that a little music video of the piece be played on the TV. When I walked up to it it was playing Stars and Stripes Forever. I pushed the button for The Washington comPost March, which I prefer to SASF, but it kept playing SASF — I realized that it let the current selection finish before playing the next one.

        So I waited a couple of minutes for SASF to finish, but once TWPM started, a gigantic guy with a Marine Corps t-shirt on came up to the display and pushed the button for Semper Fidelis. And kept pushing it, over and over. Then his wife caught up and started pushing the button too. They were incredulous that TWPM was still playing. Finally TWPM ended and Semper Fidelis began — two seconds later they walked away. I guess they didn’t want to listen to it after all.

  25. Good lord you people are busybodies. We don’t come to your bumfuck community colleges and knock the copies of Atlas Shrugged out of your hands.

    The only whining about the pollution of our fragile little minds I’ve been hearing lately is coming from the president of the United States and his wannabe butt boy Milo, who do little else but cry about the things the meanie news media says about them.

    1. Yea you are right if you just bury your head in sand the past 4 months of liberals melting down.

      Why dont you help me out as part of the social contract?

    2. Yea you lefties will just burn and destroy property, block highways

      Totally cool!

      1. By lefties you mean black people don’t you?

        Pay attention to the lunatic with the nuclear codes, why don’t you?

        1. Tony|2.18.17 @ 8:42PM|#
          “By lefties you mean black people don’t you?”

          No, Tony, we mean slimy fucking liars like you:
          “Leftists Riot At UC Berkeley, Violently Assault Trump Supporters Attending Milo Speech”

        2. Just because Tyrone hit it and quit it on you doesn’t mean you have to slander an entire race.

    3. Tony|2.18.17 @ 6:43PM|#
      “We don’t come to your bumfuck community colleges and knock the copies of Atlas Shrugged out of your hands”

      Fucking liar:
      “Leftists Riot At UC Berkeley, Violently Assault Trump Supporters Attending Milo Speech”

      1. Is the joke that Berkeley is a community college, or is the joke that Trump supporters are Rand devotees?

        1. The joke’s on Tony’s hyperbole.

    4. How can you possibly know what Milo says when you burn shit to the ground to prevent him from speaking?

    5. This is fake Tony right? I want to be charitable and assume so. Is he being deliberately satirical or trying to mimic real Tony. It’s getting pretty meta around here.

      1. No, it’s still Paul Krugman.

    6. We don’t come to your bumfuck community colleges and knock the copies of Atlas Shrugged out of your hands.

      The fuck you going on about? There’s more of your mentally diseased ilk in community colleges because it’s all poor Democrats can afford.

    7. “We don’t come to your bumfuck community colleges and knock the copies of Atlas Shrugged out of your hands.”

      Congratulations, you picked the worst possible week to make this argument.


  26. “Coddled College Culture”
    Say that 5 times real fast.

  27. Norma McCorvey, aka “Jane Roe”, has passed away.

    She was kind of the Elizabeth Nolan Brown of her time (a pathological liar), but at least she repented, changed her mind, and tried to atone later on.

    1. Repent now, DD. The convergence is nigh.

    2. Storma PrickScurvy, aka “Bane Foe”, has passed away.

      She was kind of the Jellizabeth Rollin Down of her time (a pathological liar), but at least she repented, changed her mind, and tried to atone later on.

  28. “conservatives are poison. They’re seen as just racists [like] Milo and Trump.”

    Oh my! Guess who’s gonna be the keynote speaker at CPAC!

    Hint: Not Ron Paul!

    1. Thank God, those newsletters are so racist.

  29. Here’s my advice to the rug rats coming up: learn a trade.

  30. “What may be more worrisome to consumers are the kinds of smart meters that will be using the LTE-M technology. Capstone Metering CEO Scott Williamson showed how one of his company’s smart water meters could allow a utility company or customer to tell when a toilet flapper wasn’t working correctly and causing the commode to flush regularly. The data collected from such smart meters could even potentially show whether people washed their hands after they flushed.”

    With moonbeam in charge in CA, you can bet you’ll get a fine for flushing twice.

  31. Did the hour commute and rolled into the office before realizing this cold is a hell of a lot worse than I thought. Tons of paper work to catch up on, so shoganai. I could use a little Agile to ease me through the day. AC, where you been?

    1. BTW, there’s been a commenters’ migration to Glibertarians. Add .com and you’re good to go if you please.

      1. I’ve been over there. See you there.

        1. Not sure; looks like a chat room.

          1. Some of the articles are really good. I think the chat feel of the comments will go away as newness fades.

            1. “Some of the articles are really good”
              Got a link to those? Not sure how to navigate it yet.

              “I think the chat feel of the comments will go away as newness fades.”
              Possibly. I’ll watch.
              As when I worked in an office, the assumption that those with whom I worked with were friends was mistaken. They were co-workers; we were here to accomplish an agreed goal. Yes, among them I had friends and others were compatriots interested in the same goal.
              “Who is taking care of the kids?” is one of the many discussions I avoided. TMI is not a fantasy.

  32. “We have a gigantic market failure where almost all of the elite schools are going down this road,”

    How is this a failure? We have record numbers of students enrolling in colleges today. A coddled campus culture is perfect preparation for the coddled corporate culture that the overwhelming number of graduates hope to join. The last thing they need is some lunatic chicago principal telling them they are free.

  33. Oh boy.

    Trump supporters rally downtown [Atlanta] with semi-automatic firearms

    The headline is of course misleading — most did not appear to have firearms, but a few guys claiming to be from the 3% group stood around the perimeter with open-carried AR-15s.

    I understand what they’re doing but this could probably be better done with concealed carry. The black bloc cowards seem to concentrate their activities in places that severely restrict concealed carry; it would be very surprising to see them attacking people in someplace like Georgia that respects the 2nd amendment.

    1. most did not appear to have firearms

      Appearances can be deceiving.

  34. AP, caught peddling lies, tries like hell to spin it into something:

    “Despite the AP’s public release of the document, White House spokesman Sean Spicer said there was “no effort at all to utilize the National Guard to round up unauthorized immigrants.” A DHS official described the document as a very early draft that was not seriously considered and never brought to Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly for approval.
    However, DHS staffers said Thursday that they had been told by colleagues in two DHS departments that the proposal was still being considered as recently as Feb. 10. DHS spokeswoman Gillian Christensen declined to say who wrote the memo, how long it had been under consideration or when it had been rejected.”

    I’d guess they “considered” the plans until someone pointed out it’s against the laws as now written. And you can doggone well bet there are plans for blockading Japan, nuking China, invading Russia, taking over Canada and Mexico, etc, and every one of them has been “considered”.
    Fucking lying press.

    1. Why would we take over Canada? There isn’t even any Canadian food. Have you ever heard someone say, “Hey honey, let’s stay in tonight and order some Canadian food.”

      1. Well, do they have the hockey trophy this year? As good a reason as any. And that poutine stuff, whatever it is. At least it’s not haggis.

      2. You shut your whore mouth! Poutine, Tim Horton’s coffee, and whale blubber are jointly the nectar of the gods!

      1. I didn’t look; Plan Orange?
        Looked: All of them.
        BTW, the headline is a lie by innuendo; as far as anyone (including AP, trying to save it’s sorry ass) there really was “no effort at all to utilize the National Guard to round up unauthorized immigrants.”.
        It was one of the contingency plans drawn up by a staffer, and that process will get 5 bad for 1 good.

        1. “… and that process will get 5 bad for 1 good.”
          You’ve been talking to my girlfriend, again, haven’t you?

          1. Hey, if I catch her number on the phone before I answer, I won’t. But sometimes I’m not looking.
            Assume you’re familiar with the Gliberterians site also.

    2. Okay, so what should AP have done in this case? Not published the leaked memo? The memo seems to be authentic, i.e. not a forgery or a fraud, even if it wasn’t a serious proposal.

      1. chemjeff|2.18.17 @ 10:32PM|#
        “Okay, so what should AP have done in this case? Not published the leaked memo? The memo seems to be authentic, i.e. not a forgery or a fraud, even if it wasn’t a serious proposal.”

        I knew you wouldn’t get it.
        They should admit it was one of who-knows-how-many memos that had no force of action whatsoever. IOWs, they should publish a retraction, rather than an attempt (once more) to spin it into what it isn’t and never was.
        Is that hard to grasp?

    3. If the administration has two brain cells to rub together, this is exactly how they will fuck with the MSM. If they’re asking for anonymous leaks from within the executive branch, flood them with fake leaks until their reputation is in the sewer.

      1. This is what it looks like to me. They may be running the dye through the lines to find the leaks.

        1. What happens when quantum computers go mainstream so that any quantum computer can come up with an encryption that is unbreakable while at the same time any quantum computer can break any encryption? First and most important, we need a new name for this paradox.

          1. God’s unliftable rock.

  35. “Education Secretary DeVos criticized teachers at DC school she visited – and they are not having it”
    “DeVos, who has no professional experience in public education, is an avowed proponent of voucher schools, charter schools, online schools and other alternatives to traditional public schools. Teachers across the country have been galled by what they see as her lack of faith in — and understanding of — the public schools that educate nearly nine in 10 of the nation’s children.”

    When you don’t have an argument, wave your arms.

    1. Why should anyone have faith in the public schools when the results have (at best) flat-lined compared to the rest of the world while the costs to run them have skyrocketed?

      1. “Why should anyone have faith in the public schools when the results have (at best) flat-lined compared to the rest of the world while the costs to run them have skyrocketed?”

        That’s a WaPo feed to the Chron (about as good as you get from the Chron). WaPo is interested in attracting the ad dollars from those who sell to those who live in DC. I’m guessing that includes a pretty hefty plurality of those elected courtesy of union contributions.
        Pretty much covers it, I think. Newspapers are for-profit businesses; they try to deliver a product which helps their top and bottom lines.

    2. “… public schools that educate nearly nine in 10 of the nation’s children.”

      PURPORT to educate. Of course, what they really do is *school* nearly nine in ten of the nation’s children.

      1. And those kids are there since their parents are paying for it whether they like it or not.
        Some ‘testimonial’.

  36. OT: Watch Planet Earth 2!!!

      1. Dude, Galapagos Iguanas running the gauntlet past hundreds of large snakes to reach the saftey of the shoreline was worth watching alone. It was like something out a horror movie. I’ve never seen the like.

        1. My kids call it nightmare island.

    1. How many factions were there fighting the Spanish civil war?

      1. “How many factions were there fighting the Spanish civil war?”

        Not sure, but Spencer seems beyond ‘not a true Scotsman’:
        “Spencer has stated that he rejects the description of white supremacist, and describes himself as an identitarian.[4][5] He advocates for a white homeland for a “dispossessed white race” and calls for “peaceful ethnic cleansing” to halt the “deconstruction” of European culture.[6]
        Spencer and others have said that he created the term “alt-right”,[7] a term he considers a movement about white identity.[8][9][10]
        Spencer has repeatedly quoted from Nazi propaganda and denounced Jews,[10][11] and has on several occasions refused to denounce Adolf Hitler.[12]”

        BTW, HM referred me to a book (now being carefully read): “English: Meaning and Culture”
        Pretty much makes it clear that a “European culture” is a fantasy.

        1. Ideas binding people together seems a lot more moral.

          1. “Ideas binding people together seems a lot more moral.”

            Agreed, but that binding had better include a lot of agreement, or it’s just ‘he’s OK until he stabs me in the back’. Tony posts here; I wouldn’t trust that lying sack of shit without keeping him it full view.
            I’m sure your Japanese is “Japanese”. Mine was always “non-native-speaker trying”. And it worked; I taught that English grammar class, was able to hustle honeys in the bars, converse with the Okinawans who were also racing the dirt bikes, but I was never a Japanese thinker. I thought in English and selected Japanese words from a limited vocabulary. Ditto my German, French, Italian.
            As Anna Wierzbicka makes clear (and HM agrees), that means I didn’t get it. Language is not simply interchangeable nouns, verbs, modifiers; it is an indication of the cultural ‘scripts’ of the speakers.
            Right now, it has marginal notes all over, and I’m looking for a book with an opposing view (no luck yet).

            1. Sounds like the weak form of Sapir Whorf, with which I agree. My favorite example of this is when they went to some tribe in Africa that doesn’t have different words for blue and green. When they gave them a set of color squares with 11 blue squares and 1 green square, they could not pick out which square is different.

              1. Colloquially in Cantonese, brown is ??, derived from (?)?? – (ga) f? s?k, i.e. coffee colour. Some “brown” objects still have particular colour designations, like a brown cow is a “yellow cow”, I have a textbook that indicates tan shoes are “dark red shoes,” brown sugar can be either “red sugar” or “yellow sugar.”

                1. Pompey:? Class Mothersmucker|2.18.17 @ 11:16PM|#
                  “Colloquially in Cantonese, brown is ??, derived from (?)?? – (ga) f? s?k, i.e. coffee colour. ”

                  When HM first recommended it, I also assumed it had to do with some variation of ‘Eskimos have 30 names for snow’.
                  The ‘cultural scripts’ are not about how we might name colors, but how we (as a culture) might decide if we had enough data to be able to name them.
                  For instance, German has no words directly corresponding to the English words “right” and “wrong”.
                  I was AMAZED!

            2. I’m getting interested in semiotics just to supplement my learning. Also, the advice columns in the newspapers are great. Murakami Haruki studied English the same way. If you enjoy it, then you’ll continue. If you don’t, you won’t.

              1. “Murakami Haruki studied English the same way.”

                Pretty sure he’s mentioned (from old fart memory). She gets props for pointing out others disagree.
                Problem is I enjoy entirely too much stuff and this is slow reading as I have no context; If it was history, I’d breeze through it, thinking ‘oh, yeah, that’s about the War of the Roses or the Crusades’ or something. Not here.
                I’ll need to finish this and get on with several other books on the pile.

                1. Funny, because I can read the financial section of the Yomiuri much faster and easier than, say, the food section. (Wife works for one of the monster investment banks and gets me to translate docs sometimes). I’ll never be fluent across all topics, but my kanji concerning economics or finance is stronger than the average Japanese person. So, yeah, I’m missing the “Japanesey” way of communicating, but I don’t really care.

                  1. “So, yeah, I’m missing the “Japanesey” way of communicating, but I don’t really care.”

                    I don’t blame you, and I’d do the same.
                    The issue here is my lack of knowledge that there WAS such a gulf between cultural “scripts”. And it’s not the difference between English and Japanese; they might be closer on some “scripts’ than the difference between English and Latin languages, or German (which is a pretty strong English root), not to mention Russian, Chinese, et al ———-.
                    Again, a slow but fascinating read. Thanks, HM!

                    1. That helps explain why Japanese people often say to me, “I understand what you’re saying, but we don’t say that.” Mix some Jungian collective unconscious into the conversation and shit gets weird real quick.

                    2. Pretty sure Jungian views don’t translate, either.
                      I would say it is one of those books which changes my view of the world equivalent to “Post War”, “World at Arms”, “Wages of Destruction”, “Russia Under the Bolshevik Regime”, and at least for all the whiners who have yet to offer an alternative, “Downfall”
                      Yes, you slimy piece of shit, the last is for you, Tony

              2. I don’t think they have Japanese, but I use the Readlang Web reader when reading foreign papers.

    2. My first visit that the linked site. Hooboy, the comment section on that article…full of not so many (((people))). 😐

      1. Yeah, I am thinking someone linked the article on stormfront or some other Nazi site, otherwise I have no idea where those commenters came from.

      2. Wow. The comments are a sewer.

    3. Moar liek Jeffrey Cucker, amirite?

  37. International Students for Liberty … Foundation for Individual Rights in Education


    Southern Poverty Law Center

  38. “McCain says a free press is essential to a healthy democracy”
    “McCain says he isn’t saying Trump is trying to be a dictator but “we need to learn the lessons of history.”‘

    I’m saying there is no proof that McCain fucks chicken carcasses, but we need to learn from history!

    1. You know who needs to learn the lessons of history? Idiot AZ voters who keep sending this senile douche back to the senate.

  39. The Communists through brazen save-the-human programs lofted by ‘compassioned’ government progress programs have murdered millions upon millions to outright fucking slaughter for these silly flesh robots not adhering to shit Kantian/Marxist dick juice and sacrificed umpteen fucking millions upon millions on top of the massive pile of previous man, woman, child bodies to mere starvation in just the last one hundred goddamn years… and you think a few fucking eclectics can save your fucking asses?

    Communism is built on the last holdout to intellectual winged release: the altruistic and mystic nature of humanity. This sordid cave creature can be induced to burn, rape, and torture even hordes of children on the simple table of, “I am doing this to make things better for my fellow man.”

    Perhaps, the enlightenment of dissecting the Hegelian madness is on the future curvature of our understandings. Perhaps, the next societies will truly ascend into states the crushed skulls of our multitudinous progenitors only screamed about on the torture wheels of past political philosophies and divine crazies.

  40. If you wish to save a coddler from being coddled you fucking get rid of the goddamn coddler.

    1. Fuck my face with a goddamn hamster.

      The first coddler is lowercase ‘c’ the second Coddler is uppercase ‘C’.

      Fuck language and its special hellacious spittle dragons.

  41. If you wish to break a nation over the knee of your angry philosophy you entreat its children through mass cleverness who can then be released like the wind carrying the passions of your collective stews.

  42. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to, but I think I broke your glibitarian.

  43. A planet richly floated on a sea
    of stars. Thick and round and full.
    I spun the globe and it skittered
    and twittered on my desk in front
    of that dust you see everywhere
    floating when the mind is out there
    and the light flecks with glints.

    I was God because the stars were lint
    and dog hair scattered atoms through it.
    my globe I could spin and skitter. I was god.
    The little planet was alone in the nest of forever,
    like the dust odd suns gathered through
    windows. The globe I noticed vibrated like
    knots in the stomach. It held magical mysteries
    and I took to tending the planet and through
    microscope my soft fingers guided the
    tribe animals and glaciers.

    After a while I grew bored of the globe and hit
    it creating a great darkness so I placed small twinkling lights
    in the closet where the globe grew distracted under the weight
    of its massive smallness. foibles magnified the
    weird ball flummoxed and groaned

    1. Geographical lines appeared scattered and wracking,
      towers as shiney surfaces spread and grew
      and screams bubbled up oddly from the planet
      underneath the globe I placed a bucket to catch
      a long line of streaming red that never seemed to dissipate
      end even though my special globe was once blue.

      After a while the bucket below had to be emptied
      -often my fingers curled with burgundy stains
      and this process seemed to repeat abnormally
      until my entire fucking odd globe was red
      except for a single fractal shape- an area etched with
      a golden flickering ‘America’ stamped on its surface.
      I guess from some
      old wizard…?

      1. I’ve never been completely sure what you’re doing, but please keep doing it.

  44. AC! Baby! What’s up!?!
    All your friends are hanging at glibertarians.com. they’ve been asking about you.

    1. Wow, a stagnant secret echo chamber free from kids playing on the lawn. Sounds like fun.

  45. just before I saw the receipt that said $7527 , I accept that my mom in-law wiz like actually making money in there spare time from there pretty old laptop. . there aunt had bean doing this for less than twenty months and at present cleared the dept on there apartment and bout a great new Citroen CV . look here…….
    ________________________ http://www.4dayjobs.com

  46. House Dem Calls for Review of 25th Amendment on Removing the President

    The 25th Amendment relates to the procedures for removing a president or vice president “in the event of death, removal, resignation, or incapacitation.”

    Blumenauer cautioned that the amendment – ratified after the JFK assassination – would “fail” in the case of a president who is “mentally unstable, paranoid or delusional.”

    Speaking on the House floor Wednesday, Blumenauer argued that Trump has repeatedly made statements that are “demonstrably wrong,” including about the crowd size for his inauguration and the weather on that day.

    Earlier this week, Sen. Al Franken (D-MN) claimed that GOP senators have privately expressed concerns about Trump’s mental state.

    “We all have this suspicion that – you know, that he’s not – he lies a lot,” said Franken.

    Ah, so Congress should be able to remove the president for lying. 8 years too late.

    1. I would like to apply lying as a standard for removal for ALL politicians. Not sure what we’ll do with all those nice empty buildings in Washington? Sell the whole thing to Disney?.

    2. “Speaking on the House floor Wednesday, Blumenauer argued that Trump has repeatedly made statements that are “demonstrably wrong,””

      Like “you can keep your doctor”. Oh, wait, that wasn’t Trump.

    3. Wow, they finally found an Amendment they actually care about. (Temporarily and conditionally, of course.)

  47. I see Michael Novak has kicked the bucket.

    I agreed with his moral arguments for free markets up to a point but he runs over the line in assuming that government has some sort of duty to shape a moral society in a particular way beyond “keep your hands to yourself”. You’re free to argue all you want that “good” people in a “good” society should do “good” things, but if society wants to go to Hell, a good government doesn’t throw up roadblocks, it gives them directions on how to get there. If you can’t persuade people that Hell’s a bad destination without using force, maybe they deserve to go to Hell.

    1. Notwithstanding what happens in China, the sad fact is that almost everywhere in the world today, systems properly called capitalist and democratic are facing grave difficulties. It cannot be supposed that human beings always love liberty. Free persons must meet the burdens of personal responsibility, and for some, that responsibility is too onerous. If I may paraphrase Dostoevsky: “When people cry out for liberty, give it to them?in fifteen minutes they will give it back.” For most of history, humans have been remarkably un-rebellious under tyranny. If their simplest appetites are met, why should they take up irksome responsibilities?

      So it is today. Not all human beings desire to be economically free. If they are free, they are obligated to bear responsibility for their own welfare.

      1. Many want to be free to not work. They don’t want me to be free to choose not to support them.

        1. One of my main complaints about the Libertarian message is that they emphasize liberty to such an extent that they leave themselves open to the common quick-glance criticism of being libertines. There’s too little emphasis, IMO, on the flip-side of the liberty coin, responsibility. If you want to be free to make your own choices, you have to take responsibility for the consequences.

          You’ve got the nanny-state arguments about “healthy” laws predicated on the idea that if society has to help pay for your healthcare they have the right to demand you don’t do drugs, quit smoking, stop eating so much sugar and junk food, start exercising and lose some weight, lardass. How about we get rid of the socialized medicine instead? I’m free to shoot up as much heroin as I want, when I OD you let my carcass rot in whatever back alley I collapse in?

          1. I’m also free to help you. I don’t see how putting you in a cage and giving you a criminal record so that you can never get a decent job (so you have no good reason not to keep using drugs) is helping you.

          2. IME, the majority of the people who make the ‘you’re just a libertine’ argument *are themselves wannabe libertines*.

            They just want the support and imprimpateur of the state (which is their proxy for ‘society’).

            Look at the sort of people who lump in welfare expansion payments for children, drug and drug paraphenalia programs ‘for addicts’, and birth control as ‘essential’ things the government needs to provide.

            1. I’m not really that much a “libertine” in real life, but I’ve been known to play one in the comments.

              I think some of it is people projecting their own lack of self-control on others. “I know the State is the only thing discouraging me from, like, snorting all the bath salts, so that must be true of everybody.”

              Ending the drug war was probably the last libertarian position I accepted, I’ve had bad experiences with people on drugs, and it seemed extreme at the time. But I’ve come to learn the hard way that you can’t really save people from themselves, and you can do a lot of harm to others attempting to do so.

              Figuring this out when I was a lot younger would probably have saved me a great deal of trouble.

  48. I don’t remember if I posted this before, fake news about the war on cops that I’m sure Trump’s working on putting an end to. Putting an end to the fake news and the war on cops, of course.

  49. Haidt has a point. A Libertarian friend of mine discussed this with me over the years. He determined to fund a “Chair of Skeptical Thinking” at his alma mater Austin College. His motto is “I doubt that.”

    1. Good luck dealing with what’s become of the “skeptic” community these days.

    1. Someone said they moved it.

    2. I’m finding the lack of trolls interesting as well. They usually are quite productive on Sundays. Maybe they’re lurking elsewhere:)

      1. Or perhaps a certain video was watched and they got 86’d:)

    3. Or you can troll me on a Wednesday
      A Thursday, a Friday and Saturday is best
      But never, never on a Sunday
      A Sunday, a Sunday, ’cause that’s my day of rest


  50. What year was it when the state of Texass tried and or succeeded in killing critical thinking in the classroom? I found it. A 20 second search found a 2012 Washington Post article titled “Texas GOP rejects ‘critical thinking’ skills. Really.” Really. However they are really big on critical thinking when it comes to evolution. It seems like it’s called ” Intelligent Design.”?

  51. Oops, It seems I misspelled Texas in my last post. It’s not Texass, but just Texas. So Sorry.

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