School Choice

Everything You Need To Know about School Choice and Why It's Growing

The right to control your kids' education is a terrible thing to be denied.

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For the past seven days, we've been celebrating National School Choice Week (NSCW), an annual week-long event designed to promote and energize efforts to give parents and students more options when it comes to K-12 education. Now in it's seventh year, NSCW coordinated over 20,000 events in every state in the country, a strong showing that mirrors the growth of charter schools, voucher programs, tax credits, and other systems that give more people a way to find a school that's right for their children.

All of our coverage—about 20 articles, videos, and podcasts—can be found under our "school choice" tab but I wanted to flag a few entries for readers who might have missed them during a week that was filled with all sorts of other news.

First up is a video shot at a NSCW rally in Austin, Texas that explains the big new development in choice, Education Savings Accounts (ESAs). These function like Health Savings Accounts or Medical Savings Accounts, with participants being given a debit card preloaded with money that can be spent for tuition, experiences, tutoring, certficiations, and more. It allows parents and students to radically personalize their education.

Next up is an Reason Podcast with Jay P. Greene of the University of Arkansas. Greene explains that successful state-wide experimentation in Arizona have changed the politics of the school choice movement by bringing in middle- and upper-class families who want more options for their kids. While the movement's original focus on low-income students made sense—those kids needed reform, and fast—wealthier parents have more political clout. Greene also discusses the trend away from teaching the liberal arts and toward teaching to state-proficiency and other standardized tests. That's a major loss, he says, as different parents want different things for their kids and the full flowering of educational opportunities is stunted by common yardsticks that don't actually create the sort of engaged, critical, self-directed students who will be able to create their own lives. To my mind, his cornucopic vision of all sorts of radically different types of schools with different structures, curricula, and emphases is inspiring as hell.

As a final sample of what we've offered, check out Robby Soave and Tyler Koteskey's feature from the March print issue of Reason. "Why Are Cops Putting Kids in Cuffs?" looks at how a variety of federal and state laws have transformed K-12 schools into minimum-security prisons. A snippet:

When 14-year-old Ryan Turk cut ahead of the lunch line to grab a milk, he didn't expect to get in trouble. He certainly didn't plan to end up in handcuffs. But Turk, a black student at Graham Park Middle School, was arrested for disorderly conduct and petty larceny for procuring the 65-cent carton. The state of Virginia is actually prosecuting the case, which went to trial in November.

Chief among the many ironies of this story is that Turk didn't actually steal anything: He participates in Virginia's free lunch program, which entitles him to one complimentary carton of milk each day. On the afternoon in question, Turk had forgotten to claim his drink during his first pass through the line, so he went back. That's when the trouble started, for a very specific reason: A police officer spotted him and misunderstood what was happening. A police officer. In the cafeteria.

Graham Park Middle School is among the roughly 43 percent of public schools in the U.S. with a School Resource Officer (SRO): a cop specifically assigned to patrol the school. SROs exist ostensibly to keep students safe and classrooms crime-free. But the staggering increase in their ranks over the last several decades has produced thousands of questionable suspensions and arrests. Many due process advocates and education reformers now wonder if the presence of so many cops is actually undermining school discipline.

You can find all of our school choice offerings here.

For more information on National School Choice Week, go here.

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  1. “School of Hard Knocks” hardest hit?

    1. No doubt followed closely by “School of Rock”.

      1. So what’s the School of Hard Rocks, chopped onion?

          1. Those men sound like they are very much indeed in a tight spot.

  2. Mission creep. It’s so hard to resist the “as long as we’re here, why don’t we also do this” or the “leave bad enough alone” principle. When I was in high school, there were about 450 students and about a dozen staff ran the school, and that’s if you count the two janitors and the three lunch ladies and the part time school nurse. The office was a principal, a vice-principal who was also a teacher, two secretaries and the guidance counselor. The wrestling coach doubled as a guidance counselor for kids who needed a little firmer guidance and he used a paddle to apply the guidance.

    There were three tracks for students, the college-bound, the general and the vo-tech for the kids who all you could hope for was to teach them to read and write and do some simple math and teach them a trade. There was a regional sheltered workshop for the retards – nobody was stupid enough to think you could mainstream the retards in some sort of effort to make sure no child got left behind without screwing up the schooling process for all the rest of the kids so it was “well, sorry you’re a retard but we can’t make your retardation be everybody else’s problem”. I don’t know where the blind and the deaf kids went but there weren’t any at my school.

    1. There weren’t any pre-school or after-school baby-sitting programs, either – it wasn’t the school’s job to watch after your kids. There weren’t any touchy-feely psychosocial bullshit administrations or programs, either. You got problems at home or just with life in general? Don’t bring your problems to school, it ain’t our job to fix your social maladjustment. Unless they need to be fixed by the wrestling coach.

      So was the school the village it took to raise a child? Hell no – but that wasn’t the school’s job. The school’s job was to teach kids some book learning and that’s what it did. That’s all it did, and it still managed to do a pretty shitty job of it. I can’t imagine how bad it would be if it was also trying to do twelve other things besides.

      1. Unless they need to be fixed by the wrestling coach.

        Is this a reference to something or are you advocating that kids should be molested by the wrestling coach?

        1. See the first part – the wrestling coach was a little guy who was built like brick shithouse. He kept a paddle named “The Board Of Education” in his desk and when you gave your teacher too much trouble, she’d write a little note and tell you to go take it to the coach. He wasn’t much for lecturing or trying to get to the bottom of your troubles, he just took you out in the hall and whacked you a few times and told you to grow the hell up and stop being a jackass.

      2. It’s kinda like you want a car that you can drive back and forth to work everyday so you want it cheap and dependable and good gas mileage. But some times you like to cruise out to the country and open her up, feel the wind in your hair, so you want your economy car to be high-performance. And some times you gotta haul around the kid’s soccer team so it should seat eight. And you like camping on the weekends so it should be able to haul a camper and a thousand pounds of camping gear, too.

        That’s your schools – somebody’s attempt to build a high-performance economy car that seats eight and can tow a camper up into the mountains. You’ve either got some kind of a half-million dollar custom racing van or you got a piece of crap that ain’t cheap, ain’t high-performance, doesn’t seat eight and can’t haul a camper.

      3. In California I’ve seen data that only about a third of the current payroll of public schools are actually teachers. There are now tons of vice-principals and a bunch of other administrators whose responsibility is anyone’s guess. The justification for all of these folks are the ‘demanding’ regulations and obligations regarding diversity reporting, compliance with mandates, and on and on.

        Meanwhile, of course, you constantly hear about teachers having to pay for their own crayons and construction paper for their classes.

        Having worked alongside public hospital administration for many years, I also saw similar growth in ill-defined middle-management types. Though you could never be entirely certain what the job description was for many of these folks, one thing you could always be sure of for all of them — they were never seen in the office prior to Monday afternoons, and never later in the week than Thursday mid-day, and anything you asked of them would always be promised several weeks out.

        I wonder in private schools how many of these positions could be combined into a single administrator, who actually was expected to work, and demonstrate productivity.

        1. The justification for all of these folks are the ‘demanding’ regulations and obligations regarding diversity reporting, compliance with mandates, and on and on.

          I am actually willing to take that at face value. There is a significant amount of regulation to adhere to. It puts non-trivial onerous upon schools to keep up with regulations.

          Let us do away with those regulations, and fire those people.

        2. I’ve got a brother-in-law who took early retirement from the hospital when the “coding” stuff took over. He worked maintenance and it got to be where he was spending more time filling out the paperwork for what he was doing than he was actually doing anything. You couldn’t just go change a lightbulb in the hall, there had to be this big long form documenting that the lightbulb had to be changed and who made the determination that the lightbulb needed changing just to start the job ticket.

          1. I can sort of understand this, all the overhead of a hospital has to be portioned out to the government and the insurance companies and they demand to know to the penny what the costs are so that they know the hospital’s charging a fair price. The problem is, you got a monopoly on one side and a monopsony on the other, so how the hell do you know what a “fair” price is?
            What’s a fair price for a loaf of bread? You don’t have to do any sort of close examination of what’s involved in producing a loaf of bread at all, you just go check at the store and see what they’re charging. If that weren’t a fair price, nobody would be shopping there and the store would be out of business. The store has already found the fair price, it’s whatever people will willingly pay and not a penny more.

            What’s a fair price for fixing a broken leg? Who the hell knows? How do you determine that? It’s not like you got a choice of where you’re going to go for a leg fix and it’s not like there’s a wide variety of leg fixes you can choose from. So you’re stuck with this medieval system of setting a “just” price that Adam Smith kicked to the curb 250 years ago.

          2. “You couldn’t just go change a lightbulb in the hall, there had to be this big long form documenting that the lightbulb had to be changed and who made the determination that the lightbulb needed changing just to start the job ticket.”

            So, how many hospital employees *does* it take to change a light bulb?

            1. If the hospital employee is a pyscologist, only one. But the light bulb has to want to change.

        3. I went to private school. We had teachers, one janitor and a principal. That was it.

          1. Same. Plus a couple of deans and some priests. And that wasn’t too long ago.

            You could buy your way out of detention by giving the janitor a joint – no joke.

        4. and we wonder why schools are expensive and bloated :/

        5. and we wonder why schools are expensive and bloated :/

  3. “It has a cover of Guns and Roses Appetite for Destruction album on the top.”

    Nick, don’t talk down to us, you can just write Appetite For Destruction, we know its GnR.

  4. *

  5. Guess where this story is going…

    A history teacher in California is preparing a class on the American Civil War, so he puts the flags of the opposing sides on the classroom walls….

    I hope Californians save that flag, they may need it for Calexit.

    1. The battle flag, or the Stars and Bars?

      1. According to the video accompanying this article (a few seconds after the one minute mark) it’s the battle flag.

            1. You know what I think? History itself is triggering, filled as it is with famines, disease, wars, massacres, enslavement, racism, and all sorts of other evil isms.

              Just don’t teach history at all, tell the kids never mind, they wouldn’t like it.

              /sarc

  6. When 14-year-old Ryan Turk cut ahead of the lunch line to grab a milk… he was arrested for disorderly conduct and petty larceny for procuring the 65-cent carton. The state of Virginia is actually prosecuting the case

      1. prosecutors said they decided to drop the charges after talking to the boy’s counselor

        I’d prefer that they drop the case based upon the facts.

        He’s already taken actions to remedy his attitude,” Prince William County Commonwealth’s Attorney Paul Ebert told the Post.

        Good, from many reports it seems rare to me that a prosecutor is willing to acknowledge his inappropriate aggression, which many might claim is a prerequisite to remedying one’s attitude.

        Oh wait, Attorney Ebert was talking about Ryan Turk….

      2. A mix of retardation and common sense from the mother:

        “The school tried to defend itself against allegations of racism by pointing out that both the principal and the officer who arrested Ryan are black. But Shamise Turk pointed out that black people can still act in a racist way.

        “‘People don’t understand, it can still be racism and they handled the whole thing wrong,’ she told The Huffington Post in October. “Also their story is not right and the principal should’ve been doing her job, not the [school resource officer].'”

  7. So in other high school news. sloopy’s mom (an RN) rushed to the aid of a kid who had collapsed during a basketball game with an asthma attack. Ref ordered her off the court and the game to continue. She ignored him and treated the kid.

    You know the rest. Tackled by the cops, beaten, and arrested. They’re already trying to put together a cover story. Too bad there’s several hundred witnesses…

    Assume he won’t be in a good mood for the next little while.

    1. Wow. Let’s hope Reason covers that.

      1. I can’t imagine they won’t. He’s telling everyone on staff here that he can. I’m telling the commentariat.

        1. I really hope they don’t farm this out to Robby.

          1. If she were selling it, ENB would be on the beat.

            1. “Yes, referees do have a responsibility to maintain the continuity of play, but let’s also be clear that throwing a 67-year-old woman, spine-first, onto the hardcourt is not okay.”

              1. She apparently forgot to flash her White Privilege card.

          2. This is pretty close to Lenore’s beat. That would be my guess.

              1. Just curious, what’s your beef with Lenore? Just the last couple of fishy articles?

                1. I disliked her from day one. I maintain the worldview expressed in her articles are quite spurious to libertarianism proper and she has the demeanor of a carnie.

                  Even worse, the comments to her articles are always filled with people waxing nostalgic about their parental neglect-filled childhoods where, because because mom, dad, and uncle spent their days passed out on the couch, they wandered unsupervised through the woods at the tender age of 4 with a machete in one hand and a jerrycan of gasoline in the other

                  1. You’re just jealous because your parents took proper care of you.

                  2. they wandered unsupervised through the woods at the tender age of 4 with a machete in one hand and a jerrycan of gasoline in the other

                    halving each other, no doubt!

                    1. That we don’t halve one another is why we have a generation of pussified boy-men.

                      Like Robby Soave.

                    2. If you can’t swing a machete or change a tire, what kind of man are you gonna grow up to be?

                    3. In his new piece in the print Reason, Robby asks “Why Are Cops Putting Kids in Cuffs?”

                      I’m hoping the answer isn’t “Because they go with pleated pants?”

                    4. sloopy,

                      You remain on point despite your recent experiences.

                  3. HM,

                    I’ll wait for any examples you are willing to gather, yet It seems to me that that is quite the exaggeration.

                    1. Examples of what?>

                      Even worse, the comments to her articles are always filled with

                      Yet this other comment of yours is what I am most interested in you trying to qualify: I maintain the worldview expressed in her articles are quite spurious to libertarianism proper

                      I must away and will look back tomorrow to see if you’ve responded.

                      Have a great night.

                    2. Even worse, the comments to her articles are always filled with

                      Hyperbole is one way in which sarcastic humor works.

                      Yet this other comment of yours is what I am most interested in you trying to qualify: I maintain the worldview expressed in her articles are quite spurious to libertarianism proper

                      Libertarianism doesn’t entail a particular philosophy on child-rearing. The helicopter-free range debate is as spurious to libertarian thought as the great deep dish-thin crust debate. There are correct answers to both, but let’s not pretend either of them stem from a priori libertarian axioms like the NAP.

                  4. Back in my day, we’d wander in potato bags…and we didn’t complain none. Kids today are mighty pussies and…..

                    /Squints. Rereads HM’s comment.

                    Never mind.

                  5. the comments to her articles are always filled with people waxing nostalgic about their parental neglect-filled childhoods where, because because mom, dad, and uncle spent their days passed out on the couch, they wandered unsupervised through the woods at the tender age of 4 with a machete in one hand and a jerrycan of gasoline in the other

                    BUILDS CHARACTER

                  6. HM-

                    Jeezus, your childhood must have been boring.

                    Dad spent his days asleep in his bed– because he worked “third-shift”. And nobody gave a shit that my brother and I (11 and 12 at the time) didn’t have an “adult” in the house at night.

                    The “gasoline can” thing was when I was 9 and almost I burned our garage down- but didn’t.

                    I got my “machete” as a 7 yr old Cub Scout- 2nd place in the Pinewood Derby that year!- and carried it every day to school throughout my youth.

                    My brother and I also fondly remember the “roman candle” fights, the three-on-a-bike trip down the hill at Grandma’s house where we literally uprooted a sapling in some guy’s front lawn, and the time I organized a trip to get an ice cream cone at the Dairy Queen a mile away when I was 4 1/2 yrs old, the kid from acoss the street had just turned 4, and my brother was 3 1/2. We all had our 10 cents and not a single adult that saw us thought it was necessary to call the police.

                    And, I kinda wish I was more “parentally neglected”- perhaps dad wouldn’t have broke my jaw when I was 14…

        2. Don’t know if sloopy wants to be “outed”, so to speak. Considering some of the nut cases trolling around here, I wouldn’t want my anonymity destroyed.

          1. He’s never tried to be anonymous.

            1. Fair enough. Let’s go after those sumbitches.

    2. “Let that be a lesson to you, never help anyone.”

    3. Son of a bitch

    4. I would prefer to read more than your analysis in this regard. Do you mind offering me appropriate links or key words with which I could research this matter for myself?

      1. Witness statement:

        I was on the floor seat of the bleachers when this all occurred and I actually helped participate in care of your injured player? My husband and I fully saw the entire incident of the whole debacle and would be more than happy to defend the woman who was so brutally taken down by the Jasper county sheriff

        Note: it was the PD, not the sheriff.

        1. Another witness statement:

          This is complete bull……the older woman who went on the court was NOT arguing a call, she was trying to get the game stopped and play was NOT going on when she did so. I witnessed the entire situation and that is not how it happened at all. Jasper county police so miss handled this woman it was disgusting? There was absolutely no need to throw her to the ground, put a knee in her back, and handcuff her. I was on the bottom bleacher seat, assisting with the injured player, who was on the floor. The refs “dropped the ball” not calling for the game to stop and the opposing coach gave the ultimatum to either forfeit or keep playing….. i’m guessing he would’ve felt differently if it was one of his players that was on the ground practically unconscious. Aside from all kinds of illegal activities happening at that school while we were at the game, it was a disgrace to see how their varsity basketball head coach behaved. Hey players well-being and health is far more important than winning a game .

          Ellipses hers, not mine.

        2. I assume there were people there with cell phones taking videos? The police couldn’t confiscate that many videos, could they?

    5. The cops were.. upset.. with.. her.. interfering.. with.. the.. basketball game.. to.. treat.. a… collapsed.. kid?

      1. Yep.

        I think you’ll see a more extensive recounting by one of the Reason writers. So far, the local “news” is only running statements from the cops.

      1. Basically, she identified herself as a nurse and was treating the kid until EMTs arrived. The SCHSL has rules in place that a game is to be stopped in that situation. The ref told my dad, who is an assistant, that he was restarting the game even though the head coach was out of the coaches box helping tend to the kid. At the next stoppage, she went to tell the refs they needed to stop it so the kid could be treated safely…then Officer Kyle Horton put hands on her from behind. And as she pulled away he picked her up and literally body slammed her. Then he dug his nails into her while putting cuffs on so deep the marks are still there. As are the bruises on her back.

        The principal from the school (it was an away game) begged the cop to stop but he said no. When he called this morning the cops supervisor, Lieutenant Ginn or the police chief, asked if he was threatening him. The chief also told my brother in law, who happens to be a US Army Major (Military Police) and is the provost Marshall at West Point that he was pleased with how it was handled. even after it was pointed out the cop lifted her completely off the ground by the handcuffs, which he told me is a big no-no.

        It’s not pretty.

        1. Do I believe the cop and that article or the witnesses? Not a tough call. I hope you find the guy with the video and that cop gets roasted.

          1. Cops in SC are required to wear body cams. There’s gonna be video. Plus in a gym full of people, I can assure you somebody was filming.

            Fuck, man. This won’t end pretty. My dad has a lot of stroke down there. And he is easygoing. But he will absolutely go after this guy and use every connection at his disposal to make sure he loses,his job or that dept pays out the nose.

            1. I am sorry to hear that Ken. My best to your mother.

              My father had a beef with a houston cop. Sued the shit out of the guy and would have had his balls in a jar on his mantle but the PD pulled some slick shit. He was military reserve so they gave him leave and he got himself shipped off to Afghanistan for two years. The court wouldn’t try the case in his absence nor delay until he returned.

              My father is a real bulldog with shit like that but they fucked him around until he gave up. He eventually got to take it out on another cop, the dumbest human that ever lived, in a small town in south Louisiana over a petty speeding ticket.

              Hoping your mother prevails.

              1. I think it is a safe bet that justice will prevail.

        2. Damn, sloop, I’m really sorry to hear that, though I’m not surprised that article reported the facts from Officer Dipshit’s “perspective.”

          1. Propaganda, not “facts”. And note that the commenters on the newspaper article don’t seem to be grasping that if the police are lying about this, then perhaps they’re lying little shits in general.

      2. woman was arrested for yelling at officials and police officers.

        Arrested for yelling?

        Obscenities were directed toward the officers who restrained her, arrested her, and escorted her out.

        Well yeah, no shit.

        1. sloopy comes by it honestly.

        2. Arrested for yelling?

          Well, we just can’t have civilians raising their voice to peace officers during times of stress! What are you, one of those anarchist BLM-types?

      3. It’s kinda amazing how almost everyone there was arrested for the “crime” of driving without a license, or “disorderly conduct” or drug offenses. It’s almost like if you removed victimless crimes like the above, the police wouldn’t have enough work to justify their continued existence and budget…

        1. And most of them look like they’ve been roughed up a little.

      4. Jesus, sloop. Hope she gets justice.

        1. I’d be willing to bet everybody involved will get justice.

        2. And thank you.

          Thank all of you. Hopefully this gets some publicity. It sounds like every person involved, except the cop, knew he was taking it way too far. And they’ve all voiced that to the police today.

          1. That really sucks, bro. Keep us updated, I hope justice happens.

          2. Hopefully this gets some publicity.

            A shame your family isn’t black. Of course, in that case, you’d have even more cop-fellators claiming your mom deserved it.

            (Apologies in advance if you find this offensive, Sloopy.)

          3. Man that is some bullshit.

            Sorry sloop, hope the fucker gets what’s coming.

      5. Oh, yeah. And as an added “fuck you” they made her stay in jail overnight for a misdemeanor disorderly conduct charge which carries a max penalty of a $150 fine. And the only reason they’re supposed to do that is if somebody needs to detox.

      6. Fuck these cunts. Burn the town to the ground and salt the earth.

      7. January is a big month for Officer Kyle Horton. This year he got to beat up a 67 year old woman. Last year he won a fucking award.

        Fuck.

        1. “Always dependable”.

          Well yeah, I guess if you make sure your opponents are elderly, female and helpless before your legal immunity, I guess one could depend on him.

          Wow. Does his wife know he made it home safe, or is he still sexually assaulting the homeless somewhere until his raging authority boner goes away?

          1. Don’t hold back. Tell us what you think.

      8. Don’t want to be a thug, don’t be 67 and interrupt a high school basketball game to help an injured kid.

      9. Apropos of nothing at all, here’s a suggestion:

        If a cop files a BS charge, hold everyone’s feet to the fire (not literally, Preet).

        If the prosecutor doesn’t promptly seek a dismissal, make him guilty of filing false accusations and abuse of office.

        If the proescutor *does* seek a dismissal, give the arresting officer 30 days to file an ethics complaint against the prosecutor for letting a guilty criminal go free. If the cop doesn’t do this, he’s admitting that the dismissal of the charge was proper, and that admission will be given to the jury in the false-arrest lawsuit.

        1. But if the cop *does* file an ethics complaint, and the complaint is false, the cop will be punished.

          1. As long as I’m indulging pie in the sky dreams:

            If the jury acquits the defendant, it will then decide if it’s just a case of reasonable doubt or if the defendant actually showed his/her innocence by preponderance of evidence. If it’s just reasonable doubt of guilty, just let the defendant go. If it’s innocent by preponderance of evidence, then the jury must assess damages against the prosecutors and cops. No taxpayer funds may be used to pay these damages.

      10. Jesus. Good on your mom for trying to help a person in need. I hope against hope that the cop is punished.

      11. Man, some people just love yellow Izods.

      12. This is awful. My sympathies to you and your mother. I hope there’s a happy ending to this story.

    6. Holy shit. Let me know if he needs bail. Stupid question. How much is his bail?

      1. They let her out today. The max fine is $150. But they kept her overnight just to,fuck with her.

        1. I bet they did, fucksticks that they are.

          I’m sorry this happened, Sloopy.

    7. Any link to the story?

      When I first read it I thought to myself if there were numerous witnesses there’s no way they could spin their story if what they did was excessive.

      Here’s hoping the good citizens will step up and let the cops have it.

        1. Read the comments. Hopefully the anger spills over but…wow.

          Sorry Sloop. Nothing worse than a person helping another person go through this. It’s outfuckenrageous.

          Cops who act this way lack humanity and pragmatic judgment.

          Asshole.

          Also, is the kid alright despite the stupid cop?

    8. How selfish could the referee be, to think his basketball game was more important than someone’s health & safety? How crazy could the cops be, to go along w that, even superseding the school’s principal?

      1. The ref has been suspended for the rest of the season by the SCHSL. I’d be willing to bet he’s called his last game. He refused to start the games on time because he said his contract said 6:30 even though the first game was scheduled for 6 (the crews call girls varsity and boys varsity both). So he was the reason they were running late anyway.

    1. “Mommy and daddy cut off part of your dong because we go along with nonsensical fashions that are ostensibly about cleanliness but are really about sexophobia and descend from a nonsense story about a symbolic human sacrifice to a non-existent and merciless desert war god. Sorry, kiddo, lolz.”

      1. Mountain. El Shaddai is a mountain god. That’s why you have to climb a mountain to speak to him directly.

        1. They can never be the god of the Tropical Nudist Beach Filled with Hot Chicks can they? Always have to climb up the big fuck-off mountain or get part of your dick cut off.

          1. the god of the Tropical Nudist Beach Filled with Hot Chicks

            I’m pretty sure that’s Ishtar.

            1. Promoting the Annunaki? I got my eye on you HM.

        2. That’s where the mushrooms grow?

        3. Conan: What gods do you pray to?
          Subotai: I pray to the four winds… and you?
          Conan: To Crom… but I seldom pray to him, he doesn’t listen.
          Subotai: [chuckles] What good is he then? Ah, it’s just as I’ve always said.
          Conan: He is strong! If I die, I have to go before him, and he will ask me, “What is the riddle of steel?” If I don’t know it, he will cast me out of Valhalla and laugh at me. That’s Crom, strong on his mountain!
          Subotai: Ah, my god is greater.
          Conan: [chuckles] Crom laughs at your four winds. He laughs from his mountain.
          Subotai: My god is stronger. He is the everlasting sky! Your god lives underneath him

            1. Have Conan cut red tape.

        4. Conan: What gods do you pray to?
          Subotai: I pray to the four winds… and you?
          Conan: To Crom… but I seldom pray to him, he doesn’t listen.
          Subotai: [chuckles] What good is he then? Ah, it’s just as I’ve always said.
          Conan: He is strong! If I die, I have to go before him, and he will ask me, “What is the riddle of steel?” If I don’t know it, he will cast me out of Valhalla and laugh at me. That’s Crom, strong on his mountain!
          Subotai: Ah, my god is greater.
          Conan: [chuckles] Crom laughs at your four winds. He laughs from his mountain.
          Subotai: My god is stronger. He is the everlasting sky! Your god lives underneath him.

  8. How is it that Gillespie and Trump apparently agree on something, Trump has a libertarian moment, and Gillespie won’t even give him props for the National School Choice Week 2017 Proclamation?

    Oh, and is there an FAQ on how to post here? Hyperlink text, bold, italics, etc? Can’t even post URLs linking to stuff if it’s over 50 characters…

    1. I know this guy Hihn that can help you. *snicker*

      1. After yanking his chain for years, I don’t even warrant a by-name call out?

        Hihn is such a fucking racist.

        1. He told me he was adding me to the list, then he didn’t. BULLY! But I still enjoy the relaxing sound of the blood vessels in his brain cracking.

        2. Oh, he’s got something planned for you. You just wait. Ooooh, you’re not gonna like it. At all.

          1. Nonsense. He only acts in self-defense against aggression!

        3. I haven’t talked to Hihn in over a year, and I still got Top 5 ranking. But somehow Tonio beat me. Tonio.

          I’m starting to feel that the data collection on the Hihn Approved Fascist List may be faulty.

          1. I didn’t even make the list.

            1. You know you’ll always be on my list, sloopy.

          2. It’s Hihn’s anti-Canadian bias. Or, he just refuses to admit we can be as aggressiony as Americans.

            Don’t worry, in my eyes you’re #3. No one can beat Crusty, except John.

      2. More aggression from the “so-called” Reason commenters!

        Ron Paul is a fascist who supported DOMA!

        (*laughs*)

        BULLY!

        1. Honestly though, I feel bad for the guy.

          Some of his old writings aren’t bad and he really does seem to believe in libertarianism, at least his bio claims that he’s been involved with the party quite a bit.

          I don’t know if he’s really just out of touch or straight up senile or has always been as crazy and belligerent as he seems*, but it’s kinda sad.

          *If this is the case, then I really don’t care.

          1. it’s kinda sad.

            I find all of the regular trolls here pretty sad. The way the commentariate here interacts with them can’t really be what they’re looking for… can it? If it is, how pathetic must their real lives be to crave.. this?

            1. Meh. Some of the trolls have pretty obvious insecurities, and seem to actively revel in having everyone shit on them. Tony’s all about how he’s a true intellectual compared to all the dumb posters here, Amsoc’s all about his sense of moral superiority over us, and Palin’s Buttplug has his issues with Dogdick, where everyone here who disagrees with him is a stupid Biblethumping Republican redneck failure who bullied him as a kid. They are really blatant about how much this drives them to post here, and I think having people here tear them apart is a cheap way to validate themselves.

              “These people are human garbage, but they hate me, so I must be doing something right.”

          2. Mental illness tends to get worse with age. By tends I mean it always does. It usually begins to manifest in late teens/early twenties and gradually gets worse until 40’s then the gradual stops. By 50 they are usually in prison or an institution.

            I have also noticed that Hihn seems to be markedly more incoherent and belligerent.

            1. He has always been on the edge of coherence, but I think his rants are getting more and more non-sequitur. He is less able to engage in a conversation than in the past. He was always a bit of a narcissistic asshole who argued in bad faith, but now it’s like he’s mentally incapable of understanding the comments he replies to.

            2. By 50 they are usually in prison or an institution.

              Not always. Mom was only put on drugs for bipolar disorder when she was already in the nursing home with her dementia. And trust me, from growing up with it, it wasn’t the dementia that brought on whatever mental problems she had. 🙁

              1. Unfortunately, many with severe mental illness don’t even survive their 50s. The average life expectancy of someone with schizophrenia is about 20 years less than the rest of our population.

    2. Install the browser plugin “reasonable” and formatting suddenly gets a lot easier. Also you get slightly visually better threading and “most recent comments” in a sidebar. I can’t imagine how anyone uses these POS comments without it.

      Reasonable

      1. Reasonable is Chrome only; somebody has the URL for fascr for Firefox.

        (How do you unblock somebody in fascr? I meant to mute somebody but hit block, and couldn’t find the commenter to unblock and mute.)

        1. https://bitbucket.org/bdhr/fascr/wiki/Home

          How do you unblock somebody in fascr?

          Click on your usename (“you are logged in as __________”) at the top of the page, underneath the place you change your pword are a list of names you have blocked with an “x” next to them. Click the X and they rejoin society, unrehabilitated and ready to brain-rape you again.

    3. Standard HTML for bold, italics, and hyperlinks.

      Don’t post too much in a non-Latin alphabet or the site gets pissy for some reason. You can, however, post some as long as there’s enough English, for some reason.

      Gillespie ??????? ???.

      1. Thx

    4. Gillespie won’t even give him props for the National School Choice Week 2017 Proclamation?


      they sort of did already

      naturally they prefaced it with some throat-clearing “Ugh”, but what do you want? *unconditional love*?

      Whatever negative you can say about President Donald Trump (which is plenty!), he has been unwavering and full-throated in his support for increasing school choice for K-12 students and their parents….

      His controversial Education Secretary pick, Betsy DeVos, is an activist in the school-choice movement and now Trump has issued the first-ever presidential proclamation recognizing National School Choice Week (NSCW)….

      Trump’s proclamation begins by noting “too many of our children are stuck in schools that do not provide…[a great education].” “By expanding school choice and providing more educational opportunities for every American family,” it continues, “we can help make sure every child has an equal shot at achieving the American Dream.”

  9. This has become a popular meme on my FB feed. I shared it with the Bastiat quote: “Socialism, like the ancient idea from which it springs…”. People are commenting that they agree with the meme but not the Bastiat quote. Whooooosh.

    1. Oh, what a *total burn* against all those people who don’t want children fed or educated!

      1. That’s what I said. “Go ahead and show me that person that wants kids born and then thrown to the curb and I’ll join you in condemning them. Oh, you don’t have an example? Fuck off then.”

        1. I’m sure there are some Moloch worshipers still bouncing around in some secret cabals somewhere.

          1. Hell, even they don’t just throw away perfectly sacrificable infants.

            Neo-Spartans, maybe?

    1. I fully expect the black one to murder the white one. Or did Cain turn black after the act?

      1. The mark was after.

        I think, though, it had more to do with naming your kid “metal-bladesmith” and marrying him off to his sister named “iniquity”.

      2. I think these are the two kids, all grown up.

      1. Oh, I get it, you were punning on the term “kids.”

    2. Were they named Salt and Pepper? Cause if not, someone missed one hell of an opportunity.

      1. I believe they were named “today’s dinner” and “tomorrow’s dinner”.

        1. Portlandians hardest hit.

      2. Because those goats push it real good?

    3. I feel like a goat after clicking that link.

      1. Goat Simulator was even worse than I thought it’d be.

  10. OT because I don’t like posting in dead threads

    I really like the way these guys say it.

    A few highlights

    Islam is an ideology – a set of ideas. It is not defined by what any Muslim wants it to be, but by what it is. No ideology is above critique – particularly one that explicitly seeks political and social dominance over every person on the planet. Neither is it entitled to human rights, which apply to individuals.

    As an ideology, Islam is not necessarily entitled to equal respect and acceptance. Ideas do not carry equal moral weight. The feelings or number of those who believe does not make the idea true or good. Bad ideas can and should be challenged before they have bad consequences

    Since we don’t live in a Muslim country – where censorship, intimidation and brute force are shamelessly employed to protect Islam from intellectual analysis – we are still free to openly exercise our right to debate the merits of the Islamic value system against Western Liberalism.

    1. If our years of dialogue with literally hundreds of Muslims have taught us anything, it is that, irrespective of their confidence, most have only a superficial understanding of their religion. Some are secular, and very few made the choice to even be Muslim. As with all religion, there are widely varying degrees of seriousness with which the teachings of Islam are taken.

      As Ayaan Hirsi Ali put it, “Muslims, as individuals, can choose how much of their religion they practice.” For example, many Muslims in the West do not agree with amputating limbs over theft, even though it is plainly mandated in the Quran. Most simply choose to disregard (or explain away) what is inconvenient to their moral preference.

      1. many Muslims in the West do not agree with amputating limbs over theft, even though it is plainly mandated in the Quran

        I have been assured that this is impossible. 100% of Muslims believe the Quran is the inerrant word of god and obey it robotically.

        Source: People who have never met a Muslim in real life.

        1. To be fair, there’s also the contrary example, that 100% of Muslims are just good ol’ sorts who would never believe anything counter to Western values, and the ones who do aren’t real Muslims.

          If only there was some kind of middle ground…

          1. No, no, you both have it wrong. They’re savage barbarians, but once they get their official Democratic party carrying card and cast that first vote, they magically transform into saints. Ya’ll don’t do history at all?

          2. The muslims who live in countries where explaining away the Quran is a high crime probably are not comparable to the American Muslims who wouldn’t know the Quran from a phone book. In the context of importing them what difference does it make what some Muslim who would be burned as a heretic believes?

            Even the peaceful ones would gladly import Islamic thought into American culture and government with little thought that such an endeavor would create a authority that wouldn’t let them express peaceful heresy. Therefore even the super duper good ones are dangerous lunatics that we should not want more of.

            1. Therefore even the super duper good ones are dangerous lunatics that we should not want more of.

              And here we get to the “People who have never met a Muslim in real life” examples.

              gladly import Islamic thought into American culture and government with little thought that such an endeavor would create a authority that wouldn’t let them express peaceful heresy.

              My god, it’s too late, Muhammad is already present on the ‘lawgiver’ Supreme Court building mural!!!!

              1. The problem with making claims about “you can only believe this because x” is you’ve made the premise dependent on x. Another words, if I do know a Muslim, and I do, then you’re retort just increased your idiotic position, it didn’t solidify it. Now I’m supposed to believe that even though you’re wrong about that claim, I should consider your opinion more valuable.

                Perhaps you can address whether peaceful muslims want shariah law, and how compatible that is with the Constitution. Or just deflect about a mural.

        2. CZmacure,

          Do you think that it is possible that Derpetologist has immersed hinself so frequently and so deeply that he himself has changed?

          1. I’m sure if I knew what in the world you were asking, I’d have something clever to say in return.

            1. You don’t H&R OR history much? Tsk tsk, such a shame it is.

          2. Charles,

            Maybe that question should be directed at Derpetologist…?

            1. Ya’ll are on drugs.

            2. Sumio Mondo, Jr.,

              I am of the opinion that Derpetologist is a clever individual, and in addition, an individual who reads the comments which are posted following his or her original posts.

              CZmacure ended his or her post with this sentence in response to Derp’s post: “Source: People who have never met a Muslim in real life.”

              1. Huh? I still am unable to parse you. Not trying to be difficult, sincerely do not comprehend.

                I don’t believe Derp holds the view I am lampooning, if that’s what you’re asking?

                I have, however, encountered it in the comments here…

    2. I think the idea that there is One True Islam contained in the Koran is itself an Islamic concept.

      Let each group of Muslims give their version, and we’ll deal with them accordingly. If their version involves waging war against the U.S., or imposing sharia here, then we can oppose it. If their version means illiberalism in Muslim countries while living at peace with Western countries, without any takeover plans, that’s cool.

      As to liberal versions of Islam, I don’t think those versions have really gotten off the ground in a big way, so I’m not going to pin a bunch of hope on it.

      The key is the attitude to the U.S. peace with the U.S. and no imposition of sharia? Fine, and maybe let’s even talk about allying against the jihadist, anti-U.S. types of Muslims.

      1. Peace with the U.S. and no imposition of sharia – if your version of Islam goes for that, then I’m not going to insist you become a hippie liberal.

        1. No imposition of sharia *in the U.S.* – but if you want it elsewhere, you’ll have to explain how you have more than purely temporary tactical reasons not to want it here, too.

          1. you’ll have to explain how you have more than purely temporary tactical reasons not to want it here, too.

            Exactly this. There have been a bunch of calls for a parallel Sharia court system in England, with some unofficial implementation (Mirror; take it for what it’s worth). I’m sure the early Muslim immigrants to the UK weren’t openly talking about imposing Sharia when they first arrived.

            1. 40% of Muslims in UK want Shariah?

              Didn’t they have some recent protests/marches by Muslims in London calling for exactly that?

              1. 40% is an absolutely huge number. And there are likely ‘pockets’ where that number is even larger.

                Wonder why the UK decided it didn’t want the EU telling it how to control its borders… Among other things (regs and so forth).

                1. Well, it’s working out so well in France and Germany, I can’t figure out what’s wrong with those crazy Brits.

      2. Well the Sunnis and Shiites have been killing each other for two thousand years to prove what is the One True Islam. I guess it’s not decided yet.

        1. Not even 1400 years.

          I thought Americans though 40 years was a significant amount of time (like Europeans think 40 kilometers is a significant distance)…

          1. Oh damnit, there you go getting all pedantic again! 2000 years, 1300, what’s 700 years?!

    3. All H&R threads are dead threads. Some threads are just deader than others. There’s the living dead threads though.

  11. “The right to control your kids’ education your own life is a terrible thing to be denied.”

    But denying that is what government does best.

    1. It’s not just the parents of the kids in these schools, it’s that everyone has to pay for it.

      I can honestly see how a reasonably well educated populace (literacy and some arithmetic) is in the common interest of everyone under some sort of social contract, and could be argued for. Forcing that as a semi-monopoly with its own political interests (teachers unions, etc.) is completely unjustifiable.

      1. We’re all in this together. Social contract, etc. Anyway, paying for strangers snot nosed smelly little undisciplined brats to be daily kidnapped and sent to a building in a big ugly yellow bus, to be made dumber than they could ever possibly be otherwise, so that we can then pay to support them forever because they’re now retarded, is such a noble cause. And we all agree to agree about that. Or else.

        1. I agree with that. But some basal level of literacy is a good hedge against oppression.

          If the population can read the BoR, that’s plus for liberty. That’s about where it stops for me.

          1. I think it’s an actual real fact and not fake news that home schooled kids and kids who’ve went to private schools consistently outperform kids from public schools. But that’s also probably racism or something like that and should be outlawed.

            1. I think it’s an actual real fact and not fake news that home schooled kids and kids who’ve went to private schools consistently outperform kids from public schools.

              No doubt. And it would be better if more kids’ parents homeschooled, but a lot of folks really don’t have that option (let alone private schools, which are very expensive). The right (at least a *better*) answer is probably something like charter schools, where there is some competition. One wrong answer is something like what we have now, a tremendous money-sink with really no educational improvement over hooked-on-phonics and *light* parental involvement.

              1. but a lot of folks really don’t have that option (let alone private schools, which are very expensive)

                The number of people who really don’t have that option is a lot smaller than most folks think. [begin personal finance rant] I’m a Dave Ramsey fan and listen to his show on and off. The people that call into his show expose the lie that “not having that option” is. If single moms making $32k a year can raise 3 kids while paying off $10k in credit card debt in 4 years, then Joe and Sally TwoIncome can use some of their $75k salary to send Joe Jr. and Sally Jr. to private school. Heck, they could live off one income and homeschool if only they sold the Lexus, traded the McMansion in for a more reasonable house, only ate out once a week, and cut down from 4 vacations a year to 1. The reality is that having nice things is more important to the TwoIncomes than whether their kids get a public education or a private education. [end personal finance rant]

                1. I just get Clark Howard where I am. I heard Ramsey a lot when I was a kid, though.

                  Anyway, I’d like to know the actual percentages. As you imply, if there really is only a tiny percentage of the population who “can’t” do it, then there is no point wasting a huge amount of resources fixing the problem.

                  1. As you imply, if there really is only a tiny percentage of the population who “can’t” do it, then there is no point wasting a huge amount of resources fixing the problem.

                    It would be really hard to measure without doing crosstabs on census data. It also depends on our definition of “can’t.” I envision a much more primitive lifestyle than some people can even fathom (“no cable? you barbarian!”).

                    Of course, I should mention my bias. I think two income families with children absolutely disrupt the proper balance of influence between government and family in favor of government. Anything that allows children to spend less time with a government indoctrinator teacher and more time with their parents is a good thing in my book.

              2. You know, back when I was still going through the penal system of K-12, that was in the 70s, so yeah, I’m really old. But anyway, I knew some home schooled kids and they were just really strange and socially awkward. But I think the reason is that like most kids who were homeschooled back then, it was primarily really fanatically religious parents who were doing it. But now that it’s become so much more mainstream, it seems to be for the most part, a good thing. I’m also one of those wacky futurists who believes that some really creepy fuzzy AI stuffy is going to be your children’s teacher in the near future. I mean it’s a WIN/WIN. No more public school, ton’s of money saved, no more worry about school shootings, and if the AI bear does’t work out, you just punch the stuffings out of it, throw it in the fireplace and buy a competitor’s model.

                1. True. And with a growing homeschool population come more options for socialization.

                  An educated parent, teaching one-on-one or one-on-two, can accomplish an entire day’s worth of education in a couple of hours. That leaves a ton of time for constructive hobbies or other interests or sports with friends or whatever. There’s no reason homeschool kids should be weird (I’ve personally never known any, actually).

                  1. My first granddaughter is being home schooled.

                  2. Adding onto this, I have some cousins who were being homeschooled (they’re both college age now), and they seem by and large both better educated and more socially well-adjusted than I am, not that the latter is a high bar.

                    Usually there are like homeschool support groups and stuff where the kids can meet and interact with each other.

                2. Not also the hippie freaks?

                3. I knew some home schooled kids and they were just really strange and socially awkward

                  Yup, and some of them still exist. I know 7 people my age or younger that were/are homeschooled. My wife and her sisters were homeschooled until middle of high school, and they’re socially fine (if not a bit more socially absorbed than I care for, in the case of her sisters). One of my friends from college was homeschooled and is one of the smartest and nicest guys I’ve ever met. He was no more or less awkward than the other engineers.

                  My cousins are the strange, socially awkward ones. Their parents aren’t very social anymore and are devoutly religious. As a result, the 16 year old has the emotional maturity of maybe a 12 year old. She’s not very interested in other people her age, and spends all her time with older folks (her parents’ age) or with younger children (her siblings’ age). She’s very smart and talented in certain specific areas, but she’s going to be in for a culture shock when she steps out into the real world. My wife has forbidden our children from being homeschooled because she didn’t like feeling isolated from other kids, but my cousins are another order of magnitude isolated from society.

                  I’m enamored with the idea of university style schooling. It’s a combo of homeschooling and private school where kids attend class on campus 2 or 3 days a week.

                  1. Right, but the reason kids were for the most part home schooled back then was ‘because da debil!’. But now it’s more out of concern for the child getting a quality education and preventing them from being indoctrinated by out of control leftist propaganda. So what I’m saying, is that today, the devil is real and it’s name is the left.

                  2. Is there a secular equivalent?

            2. “I think it’s an actual real fact and not fake news that home schooled kids and kids who’ve went to private schools consistently outperform kids from public schools”

              “15 Key Facts About Homeschooled Kids in College”
              http://www.onlinecollege.org/2…..n-college/

              After some Robby-style hand wringing, it’s all good.

  12. California mulls going back to Articles of Confederation

    Turns out we were so worried about Trump starting WWIII that we didn’t keep an eye out for Civil War II

    1. Are you saying that Trump has turned Cali into some sort of libertarian paradise?

      1. California ad on Reason, circa 2020:

        Start a new life in New Somalia! Libertarian paradise awaits!

        1. No roads or bridges, because we done spent all of everyone else’s money!

    2. If I were President and they tried this, I’d simply have all airspace in California declared closed; I think Fedgov can do that. I’d also think about shutting down electric trasmission lines from other states, but I don’t think Fedgov has that power.

    3. They could recommend non-compliance with the federal tax code.

      That will go well.

      1. What happens if the fedgov recommends non-compliance with the California tax code?

    4. California is among a handful of so-called “donor states,” which pay more in taxes to the federal Treasury than they receive in government funding.

      Citation needed.

      They should read the Constitution instead of the Articles of Confederation. Sorry, but Congress sets immigration law not the states. Enumerated powers and all that silliness.

    5. “California mulls going back to Articles of Confederation”

      Supposedly, CA is a net contributor to the Fed budget, although that sort of calc is easily gamed.
      I’m pretty sure that the cities are net receivers, given the choo-choos and other lefty nonsense; the SF gov’t is very concerned about the loss of Fed money.
      If there are net positives to CA, they are probably are probably driven by the ag. subsidies. And Elon Musk.

      1. Corrected:
        Net positives to CA are also driven by the ag. subsidies. And Elon Musk.
        If there are net negatives, I presume those are driven by the high-income taxes collected.

      2. Shouldn’t be hard to break it down by county.

        I’d imagine that Silly Con Valley is a big contributor to the fedgov.

  13. As predicted, the Zoolander Preen has begun

    US refugee ban: Canada’s Justin Trudeau takes a stand

    Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has taken a stand on social media against the temporary US ban on refugees and immigration from designated countries.
    In a series of tweets, Mr Trudeau underscored his government’s commitment to bringing in “those fleeing persecution, terror & war”.
    Within hours, Mr Trudeau’s tweets had been shared more than 150,000 times.

    Literally greatest thing this country has ever done. Vimy Ridge? D-Day? Trailer Park Boys? Utter nothing compared to PM Zoolander’s latest.

    But the joke’s on him, I have Glenlivet! Take me away, reasonably-priced scotch!

    1. Tweets? How courageous.

      1. To be fair, he’s fighting on Trump’s ground. That is very ballsy!

    2. I have Glenlivet! Take me away, reasonably-priced scotch!

      *lifts glass of Bulleit to Pan and the Trailer Park Boys. (not a scotch drinker)

    3. You want to get Canadian Trump? Because this is how we get Canadian Trump (less protectionism, more ‘fuck you Quebec’).

      1. Kevin O’Leary is looking good for a bet here. Or it’s the scotch making him look good.

  14. Jesus Christ, Hihn is still going after that thread.

    Michael Hihn|1.28.17 @ 7:12PM|#

    Password:pode$ta …. champion BULLY of the week!!!!

    Kind of the junior-varsity of ‘the list,’ if you ask me…

    1. Do you have some moral principle against blacklisting him?

      i was tempted for about 5 seconds to turn it off and go find this oft-mentioned “list”, but then i remembered what a terrible idea that was.

      unless you find his thing *funny*… i could sort of see that. I am not above the occasional “poke with a stick and watch them shriek” thing. just for the lulz. when he changed his handle i did that.

      1. I’m not sure funny is the right word. As I mentioned above, I’m kinda torn. Maybe it’s sad, maybe it isn’t. Maybe I’ll get to the point where I just block that shit. But for now, I want to fight the good fight. Meaningless though it is, it bugs me to have some lunatic raping my comments after everyone leaves the room.

  15. OT, mostly *(it involves a school?) =

    I presume Robby covered this back when it was a thing, but the Weekly Standard mentioned it in passing…., and this was the sentence that made me facepalm hard enough to leave a mark =

    [A] UWS graduate student and student program manager at the UWS Gender Equity Resource Center, states in her grievance that the April 1 edition [of the school’s daily paper] didn’t have a disclaimer that it was satire.”

    the edition in question

    1. They could have added Dan Rather as a third candidate, but that sure wouldn’t have lit up her malfunctioning sarc meter.

    2. They voluntarily admit to being that stupid huh

      1. I wonder if she also responds to Trick or Treaters as home-invaders demanding ransom

        1. And then brags about doing so.

    3. The author of the article is “Tater Tot” and that did not tip off this future masters recipient?

      Gender Equity Resource Center? Never mind. Carry on.

  16. Judge stays part of executive order

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/…..index.html

    1. Fundamentally changes nothing. If you have a valid Visa and were on the way here prior to the order being signed you won’t be denied entry.

    2. How does a Brooklyn district court judge issue a nationwide injunction? Seems like a rancid case of forum shopping.

    3. President Donald Trump’s seismic move to ban more than 130 million people from the United States

      Indeed.

      1. And here I thought over 5 billion people were banned from the US.

    4. I got the same bait-and-switch from SF Gate, but The Hill seems to have it:

      “A federal judge in New York has issued an emergency stay temporarily halting the removal of individuals detained after President Trump’s order banned immigrants from seven Muslim-majority countries from entering the U.S.
      The move appears to mark the first successful legal challenge to the Trump administration and affects those who have arrived in the U.S. or were in transit with valid visas, according to CNN.
      The court ruled on a habeas corpus petition filed by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) on behalf of two Iraqi men who were detained at John F. Kennedy International Airport on Friday after Trump’s ban, The Verge reported Saturday night.
      Since then both men, Hameed Khalid Darweesh and Sameer Abdulkhaleq Alshaw, have been granted entry to the U.S.”
      http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-…..nationwide

    5. CNN Headline in video @ that link

      Trump Order Strands Refugees In Iraq

      (eats memberberries)

      the State Department stopped processing Iraq refugees for six months in 2011, federal officials told ABC News ? even for many who had heroically helped U.S. forces as interpreters and intelligence assets. One Iraqi who had aided American troops was assassinated before his refugee application could be processed, because of the immigration delays, two U.S. officials said. In 2011, fewer than 10,000 Iraqis were resettled as refugees in the U.S., half the number from the year before, State Department statistics show.

      Of course, they had an excuse = there was news that terrorists REALLY WERE sneaking in as refugees.

      Now we’re supposed to forget all that – both the ‘actual threat existing’ and the response by the govt, and say, “My god, this is unheard of! Who could possibly do such horrible things!? ONLY LITERALLY HITLER IS WHO”

    6. BTW, the Chron continues to suffer from TDS:

      “Countries where Trump does biz not hit by restrictions”
      http://www.sfgate.com/national…..891317.php

      I’m sure that’s true, but it says more about the Chron than anything else.

  17. Hey Shikha, I found some actual fascists for you.

    MASSIVE TW: Unz. And Peter Lee tends to be a little… nutty at times… So +1 grain of salt.

    1. She hated Modi way before it was cool! In fact, in many ways, her Modi articles are precursor to her Trump stuff.

      1. Fair! Still felt like doing that.

    2. Yeah, the whole Unz website can be nutty quite often.

  18. Guys (and gals), feel free to flood the comments on that story about my mom getting beaten by that fucking cop. The more the merrier.

    I’ll work on getting something together tomorrow with a few people.

    1. They look like Facebook comments, so I can’t help you.

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