Brickbat: You Dirty Rat

Brian Arbuthnot / Dreamstime.com

The federal Environmental Protection Agency has sent letters to several states and cities ordering them to stop using dry ice to kill urban rats. The dry ice is stuffed into rat burrows, and as it outgasses it suffocates the rats. The EPA says it has not approved dry ice as a pest control measure.

Comments

[Adans smith]

'Dear E.P.A. kiss our collective asses.regards, the states'.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

I have it on good authority that Playa has been stockpiling dry ice. I thought at first it was for semen preservation purposes, but now I fear it may be for more sinister reasons.

[wef]

It's for bigger rats - remember, remember, the fifth of November, the dry ice treason and plot

[neoteny]

the state agency said it "does not support the use of illegal undocumented products or substances, such as dry ice, for rodent control."

[Ted S.]

It's not as if dry ice causes any environmental harm, unless you touch it, I suppose. 🙂

[Groovus Maximus]

It's is known: Warty's greatest phobia is dry ice and liquid nitrogen. Cryotherapy is Warty Hugeman's kryptonite.

[Radioactive]

and here I thought Wart Hugeman's kryptonite was in fact kryptonite...

[Chipper Morning Wood]

Hello????? Climate change!?!!

[Zeb]

If it works well, it's pretty ideal. Pretty small risk of killing things you don't want to kill and no risk at all to humans.

[C. Anacreon]

Have you got it do you get it
If so how often
Which do you choose
A hard or soft option

[Groovus Maximus]

"The Dry Ice Traps and The West End Rats.....West End Rats."

No doubt these vermin are 'furriners and invasive; shouldn't this fall under the purview of ICE? And what of good ole' fashioned, reliable warfarin? Great stuff for filthy rodential vermin.

Amusingly enough, when Primus Maximus was alive and went to pick up his Coumadin RX at the local pharmacy, he would always announce, and loudly too, if there were lots of people in queue, "Hey, you guys back there got my RAT POISON ready? My numbers are up, and we gotta do something 'bout 'em, but quick!" Even louder if Mama Maximus or myself took him to the pharmacy when he his health started declining.

Good times.-)

[Mongo]

I really loved Pet Shop Boys no homo

[The Hyperbole]

the industry association is not calling for the EPA to permit dry ice as a rodenticide. "It's not one of our priorities right now," he said.

Hmm, a cheap,easy, and effective alternative to your business, I wonder why they wouldn't be all for it.

[Agammamon]

Cheap, easy, and with negligible environmental effects - as the stuff is condensed out of the air the net carbon output of this is solely the carbon released by the power plant powering the condenser.

[Radioactive]

and a little heat...GLOBAL WARMING RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!

[Zeb]

I think that most pure CO2 is produced as byproducts of industrial processes, or out of the ground. There isn't enough in the air for it to be efficient to get it that way.

But pretty much all of that would be released to the atmosphere anyway if there was no other use for it.

[Agammamon]

Maybe - I don't know.

In any case - still environmentally neutral as that CO2 was gonna get into the air anyway and no one is burning carbon *just* to make dry ice.

[Suthenboy]

They just cant help themselves. The axe is hovering over them because of this kind of thing and they cant quit. It's compulsive behavior for apparatchiks. It is my great hope that these bastards will all be gone soon.

[The Hyperbole]

Yup, you'd think someone would have told them - "Do you want Trump, because that's how you get Trump."

[Suthenboy]

They still haven't figured it out. They have been practicing cronyism and regulatory capture for so long they think that is just how business is done. They cant compete on a level field and cant shake the feelings of entitlement so they have to fix the game. That mentality gave rise to the 'too big to fail' bullshit. They cant imagine that the world will keep turning without them.

Unfortunately the apparatchiks in the regulatory agencies think their part is to cater to such people.

The lot of them probably think Trump is blowing hot air, and he may be, we will see. For such people as this who cant imagine anything but the status quo I can see how they would think his promise to gut regulations is the same thing as destroying civilization.

[Groovus Maximus]

It's not just the Regulatory Apparats either, Suthen. Seems to me that a lot of that Troompsplanation and Troomplaning is simply resistant to hyperbole and inflated criticism.

Say what you want, but the man has spent his entire life selling stuff, be it his properties, his name, and his personal brand: He does understand people and marketing, including the illogical and the irrational premises required to sell things to people that they want, but don't need, and the things they may need, but don't want.

Gojira Jimbo has said it best (which is why he occupies a slot on the Top Ten Groovy List of Commenting Excellence):

"People aren't a bunch of Spocks, they respond to their needs first, regardless of it falls into the nice, neat, rational, and mathematical, Libertarian Theory or not. They don't care who sells it to them, just as long as their immediate needs and desires are met, since others ultimately don't care about them either."

[Suthenboy]

That does sum it up nicely.

"...since others ultimately don't care about them either." Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from Clemens:

"You'll Worry Less About What People Think of You When You Realize How Seldom They Do."

and of a t-shirt I bought for my son when he was about 12:

Front - I am special and unique

Back - Just like everyone else

[RBS]

Figured it out? They doubling down. I saw some quote from Elizabeth fucking Warren about the Hardees guy. She claimed it was a slap in the face to working families. Yeah, fuck that guy who signs all those paychecks.

[Suthenboy]

Goddammit RBS. I slept pretty well, feel relaxed and my flu seems to be subsiding. All you had to do to piss me off was say her name.

*goes to refill coffee cup*

[RBS]

It's good to get the blood pumping first thing.

[Radioactive]

not to mention the associated fist pumping...mmmm think I'll go and pump the girlfriend...

[straffinrun]

That dirty Big Brother. He won't kill my rat.

[Radioactive]

My name is Ingio Mantoya, you killed my father...or my fathers rat...anyway prepare to die!

[Rat voted NOTA]

What if it pollutes our ground water?!

[Suthenboy]

Then we will have soda spritzers on tap

[Groovus Maximus]

Huh, that brings me back to my youth. We had this service called Charlie-O, and they delivered soda water each month as per monthly or as needed order. with a special pump mixer prep unit, where one added their own soft drink syrup to taste. It's was pretty neat at first, but then got to be kind of a pain and not really cost effective.

And yes, I am sure some bozo will find a euphemism or two in there...

[Radioactive]

well in fact....oh never mind, no euphemism for you!

[invisible furry hand]

Death by dry ice? How very metal

[nailzer]

I guess if you dump millions of gallons of polluted water into rivers the official EPA statement is "Shit happens".

[Free Society]

Actually I think their story alternated between that and "Damn those property owners that bought the land from the guy who bought the land from the hundred years defunct mining company. Oh yeah and fuck these local politicians too. This is their fault!"

[Drave Robber]

The 'war on rats' (yes, they're using that term) is a futile endeavor - unless food sources disappear, they'll be back.

Plus killing them in one of most cruel ways possible.

And yet, it's still not feds' business.

[Suthenboy]

You are correct. I have been to places where flies were a plague. People complained about them but when I described simple ways to drastically reduce the problem (stop shitting in the street and throwing garbage out in the open) they would look at me like I was crazy.

[Radioactive]

cause you are?

[Drave Robber]

Unlike flies, rats normally avoid people.

Tabloids however dig up on average one story a year about a baby eaten by rats in some remote shithole. Speaking of which stories, Lisbeth is obviously a male. (w: Daily Mail)

I can think of several things that are orders of magnitude more dangerous to babies and people in general.

[Groovus Maximus]

I see, one child but a statistic, yet score of vermin are a tragedy. I'm pretty sure any children didn't ask to be maimed by natures furry cockroaches, regardless of the parents' ability to protect the child. (Rats are adaptive and malevolently clever, admittedly).

When rats can tell me what they want, preferably in writing, I'll listen. Until then, they are vermin, vectors and carriers of disease, and will be killed in my presence with the most extreme of prejudice. Period. Full Stop. End of Story.

[Pompeius the Quant Retard]

I love how they shit and piss everywhere that they walk.

[Cyto]

CO2 wouldn't be one of the most cruel ways possible. They'd suffocate pretty quickly - falling asleep rather rapidly as CO2 levels increase.

As opposed to spring traps, which break their bodies and leave them to slowly die of internal bleeding or dehydration, or poisons that cause them to bleed out internally.... or maybe getting their head gnawed off by a cat, or eaten alive by a black rat snake, as nature intended.....

[sarcasmic]

Spring traps tend kill pretty quickly. Assuming things to as planned, the bar snaps their back or neck. Death comes quickly after that. Glue traps on the other hand. Those kill by dehydration. That's pretty damn cruel.

[UnCivilServant]

There are some forms of creature for which my sympathy cannot be garnered. Uninvited guests in my house are pretty high on that list.

[Radioactive]

commenters on this thread just made my list...

[sarcasmic]

Sympathy is a word in the dictionary between shit and syphilis. Speaking of traps, I have some rat traps set to catch flying squirrels. Need to check them.
.
.
.
Things are snapped and licked clean. Fuckers are sneaky.

Will rebait and reset later.

[Rat voted NOTA]

Trapped in glue and forced to watch the View.

[Cyto]

I have disposed of rats killed in spring traps. Many get their necks snapped and die quickly. Some get caught lower down and lie there with broken bodies for hours before dying.

But it is eleven orders of magnitude better than many of the deaths available in the natural world. When nature shows stopped showing the sanitized version of lion kills and the like, we got to see them starting to feed on the gnu before it was dead... poor, terrified animal screaming as a group of lions eat his entrails and hindquarters. Wow, nature really doesn't give a flying....

[Drave Robber]

See 1.2.3. (w: pdf)

Of course, glue traps are worse, and so are some poisons.

[Rat voted NOTA]

Do rats sense blood CO2 like humans? If not even a slow depletion of O2 wouldn't be cruel. Nitrogen is less noticeable for humans, but more difficult to use against burrows.

[sarcasmic]

A while back my wife was raising rats for snake food. At the time I was brewing my homebrewing hobby gave me access to a constant supply of CO2. So when it came time to kill a batch, we'd put them in a trash bag and then I'd fill the bag with gas. Judging by the kicking and squirming I think they indeed sensed it. That went on for about thirty seconds before they passed out. Another minute or so and they were dead.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

Your wife sounds pretty cool. What snakes were you keeping?

[sarcasmic]

My wife is an adulterous cunt who killed all her snakes when she walked out on me.

[Radioactive]

lucky she stopped with the snakes....

[sarcasmic]

Actually, she didn't. She killed a couple dozen baby chicks, a couple dozen baby quail, a pair of tree frogs, and a legless lizard. I'm glad I told her I wanted to take care of the cats or she probably would have killed them too. Fucking woman is psycho. I was with her for twelve years and I have no idea of who she is.

[Cyto]

Yeah, CO2 is going to trigger the "I'm suffocating" response, briefly.

Better would be a heavy, inert gas like Sulfur Hexaflouride would work great.... it wouldn't trigger the suffocation response and would asphyxiate quickly as it is much heavier than air and should fill up the burrows. But it is expensive as all get-out.

[CatoTheChipper]

CO2 is heavier than air. N2 is not.

[Radioactive]

is that cause N2 is air? or most of it anyway?

[Zeb]

It is most of air and it's lighter than oxygen as well, so it's a bit less dense than air.

[pan fried wylie]

Seeing how air is mostly nitrogen, it would be hard to be heavier than itself 😉

[pan fried wylie]

dammit, refresh

[Agammamon]

How is this a cruel way to kill? Its simple anoxia - Do it to a full-sized human and its a grand total of 30-60 seconds of 'whaaa?', then unconsiousness then death. No pain whatsoever. In fact, most of the people who die from anoxia don't even know there's a problem until they pass out.

Nerve gas has more distressing symptoms than this.

[Radioactive]

can we do a randomized, double blind experiment? first we get the DNC to sign teh waivers, and then...

[Rat voted NOTA]

There is some distress if you can't expel enough CO2 as would happen with dry ice saturation. If you replace the oxygen with an inert gas there is no sense of trouble until the sudden unconsciousness.

I agree that anti-cholinesterase is a nasty way to die. CO2 is humane in comparison.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The EPA would rather cities kill rats with subliminal messaging.

[Groovus Maximus]

I'm thoroughly convinced that Denial, The Angry Prostate, could absorb them just as efficiently as an amoeba-like blob, Fist of Amorphous. Perhaps that overgrown, temperamental, sac of displaced rage could actually benefit society and snuff out rodential vectors of disease.

It would certainly give your chronically F5ing self some demonstrable value.-)

[Fist of Etiquette]

Solid analysis.

[Groovus Maximus]

I thought it was rather sublime, myself.

[sarcasmic]

That which is not permitted is forbidden. Freedom means asking permission and obeying commands.

[Mr Drew]

^Exactly this

[Pompeius the Quant Retard]

Yup. This is pretty much du jour. Guess what: even FIFRA 25(b)-exempt "pesticides" such as - yes - white pepper, need to be paired with a FIFRA 25(b)-exempt compliant disclosure label if and only if the product is presented as being used for the purpose of insect control. White pepper you buy at the Asian grocery store as a raw material? Magic safeness.

[Jerryskids]

It seems to me if dry ice ain't an Approved Method for killing rats then they ain't killing rats with dry ice, are they? They're just stuffing dry ice in the rat's burrows and if any rats happen to die in the process.....oh, well.

[sarcasmic]

CO2 is heavier than air. So as the dry ice melts, the CO2 fills the burrows. This kills the rats. Science is cool.

[UnCivilServant]

It's a temperature mitigation project. Those burrows were clearly too warm and they were reducing the temperature

[Radioactive]

HVAC for rats?

[Eman]

Temperature equality

[Suthenboy]

Last story this morning...

I had a damned mouse in the house. I tried poison. I tried traps. The damned thing was too smart to fall for any of that. Every now and then I would see it zip across the floor from one place to another. I looked and looked for its lair but never could find it. I kept finding my food stores pilfered.

Last night my dog acted like he was trying to climb the living room curtain. I figured it was a gecko or anole that came in the house to escape the cold. I peeled back the outer curtain and there, atop the inner curtain, was the mouse. I quickly grabbed my BB gun, held the outer curtain back with one hand and pointed the BB gun pistol style with my other. One shot right through the brain, instant death. He didn't even twitch. Good grief, all that trouble gone in an instant. Between politics, finances, little irritations, and family affairs everything is just coming up roses. Every day is like Christmas. I am getting worried.

[sarcasmic]

That's why I have cats.

[Suthenboy]

My cats lived 20 years. I had two Russian Blues. I loved those guys but that meant 20 years having a box of shit in my house.

Those are the last two cats I will ever have.

[Pompeius the Quant Retard]

Just make sure you don't make a neighbourly or commercial enterprise out of recommending BB guns to control rodents, because that may not be an approved rodent control apparatus or method - better check with an environmental lawyer on that one. Even if mea culpa applies, you still face theoretical monetary sanctions, for which unelected EPA bureaucrats computed out of their assholes.

[Longtobefree]

We all trust that the BB gun was registered with the feds, and all appropriate license and taxes were paid, you passed all the necessary safety and training courses and that your name is correct so this did not happen in NY or CA. Otherwise you are a bad person.

[Zeb]

I'm thinking that attempting to register a BB gun with the feds would go something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1RGwaCUjm0

[Cyto]

I dunno... Eric the 'alf a bee was not recognized as a pet by the bureaucracy.

The ATF definitely thinks much less than half of a machine gun is still a machine gun.

[Suthenboy]

I guess I will stick around. Seems wife is getting what I have and cancelled our plan this morning.

In case anyone was skeptical of my claim that all of the agitator groups we have are some aspect of the commie front, I found this:

"Fidel ascends to the realm of the ancestors, we summon his guidance, strength, and power as we recommit ourselves to the struggle for universal freedom. Fidel Vive!" - Black Lives Matter official page.

[Longtobefree]

At first, I thought this was off topic

[Radioactive]

CIA should have tried CO2?

[I can't even]

Trump has already chosen the form of their destroyer - the last gasp of the regulators before they are ordered to spend the next 4 to 8 years reversing everything they've done.

[Robert]

I believe dry ice qualifies as a General Use article under FIFRA. As long as it's not being sold for that specific use, it's not illegal.

[Eman]

But innocent rats could be hurt by unapproved dry ice! What about that? Wait..

[CraigL]

My friend worked at a paper mill which had big problems with starlings. EPA said they could kill them, but could not harass them (like with fireworks). Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Dry ice is the most benign chemical in existence. It would be like EPA saying you can't use water to drown roaches. Idiots.