Immigration

Trump Wants To Deport As Many Undocumented Immigrants As Obama Already Has

The upside: the number of undocumented immigrants with criminal records is less than Trump's stated goal of over two million deportations.

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Meet the new boss..
Sipa USA/Newscom

The moment in President-elect Donald Trump's interview with 60 Minutes' Lesley Stahl this past Sunday which has left the greatest impression on supporters and detractors alike is the following exchange:

Lesley Stahl: What about the pledge to deport millions and millions of undocumented immigrants?

Donald Trump: What we are going to do is get the people that are criminal and have criminal records, gang members, drug dealers, we have a lot of these people, probably two million, it could be even three million, we are getting them out of our country or we are going to incarcerate. But we're getting them out of our country, they're here illegally. After the border is secured and after everything gets normalized, we're going to make a determination on the people that you're talking about who are terrific people, they're terrific people but we are gonna make a determination at that— But before we make that determination— Lesley, it's very important, we want to secure our border.

Much of the protesting of Trump's election has been motivated by his stated plans to deport "two…even three million" people, but as President Obama leaves office with extraordinarily high approval ratings, the legacy of his administration regarding deportations isn't receiving the same kind of scrutiny as Trump's prospective policies.

Put simply, President Obama presided over the deportations of over 2.5 million people—that's more than the previous two administrations combined over a period twice as long—and by far the most of any administration ever.

There are some important distinctions between Trump's plan and Obama's actions. Trump has threatened to withhold federal funds from "sanctuary cities" and police departments which refuse to aid in the federal enforcement of immigration policies. Trump also intends to target those undocumented immigrants charged, but not convicted, of legal offenses, and increase the use of "expedited removals," which bypass immigration courts and grant immigration officers the authority to immediately expel people from the country.

As far as Trump's ambition to deport two or three million "bad hombres," that's more undocumented immigrants with criminal records than are currently in the country, according to the Department of Homeland Security. And even if there were more than the reported 1.9 million "criminal" aliens on this side of the border, there are still laws preventing a mass deportation on the scale Trump proposes.

The Independent explains:

Under the Due Process Clause all illegal immigrants are afforded rights under the US Constitution and are entitled to full removal proceedings in court. The president can't deport by edict and since the courts are operating under a major backlog, they won't be deported immediately in a rerun of Eisenhower's Operation Wetback, when hundreds of Mexicans were illegally deported without being given the chance to prove their citizenship.

As far as the "terrific people"—the undocumented immigrants without criminal records Trump referred to in his 60 Minutes interview—their fate under the next administration will have to wait until "everything gets normalized," which could be a while.

Below you can watch my Reason TV doc "How Obama's War on Drugs Destroys Legal Immigrant Families":

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  1. we are getting them out of our country or we are going to incarcerate

    Um…dear orange leader…isn’t crime in the US at historic lows?

    1. the economy god is angry because the immigrants are sinners. so we need to get rid of them to please the economy god. if only we could put the sins of the immigrants into an animal & sacrifice it to the economy god this would be a lot easier. a goat, for example.

      1. Ah, so that explains the memo detailing Trump’s plan for a trade war with China. It’s a holy war in the name of Deus Economicus!

    2. But rising.

      I’ll bet police abuse is also at “historic lows,” so does that mean we should not try to lower it further?

    3. You and your fucking numbers. It’s how unsafe we feel that’s important.

    4. One problematic use case is immigrant commits crime, turns out he’s undocumented, is let out on bond/bail and disappears. That’s got to stop. People who eligible to be deported aren’t going to show up for trial so they can be deported, win or lose.

    5. *isn’t crime in the US at historic lows?*

      It is if you don’t include the 30 million criminal illegal aliens residing in the US.

  2. The Obama numbers are a sham. Obama changed the definition of “deport” to include everyone who is turned away at the border. So, Obama didn’t deport, at least as it was defined under Bush, anything like the numbers Bush did.

    This fact has been pointed out by myself and others on this comment board many times. Yet, reason continues to ignore it and pretend the Obama deportation numbers mean what they claim to mean. You don’t have to give up your support of open borders to tell the truth. Just tell the truth as it is and you will be a lot more convincing.

    1. Came here to say that.

      1. It’s Reason’s version of the 77 cents on the dollar myth.

        Also, how can anyone reconcile those deportation numbers with the fact that we’re supposedly permanently stuck at just 11 million illegals? Because our border is a sieve it’s reasonable to assume that there are far more making it in than being turned away. Add in the fact that enforcement of overstayed visas and other temporary permits is non-existent, and deporting and/or turning away 2.5 million has got to mean we’ve let in 10 million or so over the same period.

    2. On top of that, the article is flat wrong about the numbers, as illustrated by the chart. 2 million (GWB) plus 800,000 (Clinton) is more than Obama’s claimed 2.4 million. Anthony Fisher should be ashamed.

    3. John you pull the most random “facts” straight out of your ass. citation needed. bonus points if you post a link to breaitbart or a PAC run by an ex-klan member.

      1. http://www.latimes.com/nation/…..story.html

        You mean like the LA Times? This is well known. Learn how to use google and stop priding yourself on being ignorant.

        1. LA Times is team Red all the way! /Derp

        2. If someone demands a source, and mocks you while doing it, it’s only fair and just that they don’t run away like a little bitch after and come back to own their stupidity.

          This has been mentioned every time Reason has made their bogus claim about Obama’s deportation numbers. Reason has even mentioned it sporadically in their own coverage, but then chooses to ignore it when convenient.

    4. On top of that, the article is flat wrong about the numbers, as illustrated by the chart. 2 million (GWB) plus 800,000 (Clinton) is more than Obama’s claimed 2.4 million. Anthony Fisher should be ashamed.

      1. Sigh. Some sort of submission bug caused my comment to come through too many times. My apologies.

        1. isall good. good catch on the numbers. I think that Fisher has a point that Obama has acted as though he is some sort of immigration reformer while deporting more people than any other president ever. straightup bullshit was the hallmark of the BO presidency. remember when his drug czar announced that they “ended the drug war”? Despite that you’ve got to check your addition before hitting that submit button.

    5. On top of that, the article is flat wrong about the numbers, as illustrated by the chart. 2 million (GWB) plus 800,000 (Clinton) is more than Obama’s claimed 2.4 million. Anthony Fisher should be ashamed.

    6. On top of that, the article is flat wrong about the numbers, as illustrated by the chart. 2 million (GWB) plus 800,000 (Clinton) is more than Obama’s claimed 2.4 million. Anthony Fisher should be ashamed.

    7. On top of that, the article is flat wrong about the numbers, as illustrated by the chart. 2 million (GWB) plus 800,000 (Clinton) is more than Obama’s claimed 2.4 million. Anthony Fisher should be ashamed.

      1. I didnt get that the first eight times could you post it again for me mike p?

    8. On top of that, the article is flat wrong about the numbers, as illustrated by the chart. 2 million (GWB) plus 800,000 (Clinton) is more than Obama’s claimed 2.4 million. Anthony Fisher should be ashamed.

    9. On top of that, the article is flat wrong about the numbers, as illustrated by the chart. 2 million (GWB) plus 800,000 (Clinton) is more than Obama’s claimed 2.4 million. Anthony Fisher should be ashamed.

      1. “STOP POKING MEEEEEE!”

        (Ha ha, I love Warcraft. DOS version, of course.)

        1. [clicks on sheep until it explodes] [no euphemism]

    10. On top of that, the article is flat wrong about the numbers, as illustrated by the chart. 2 million (GWB) plus 800,000 (Clinton) is more than Obama’s claimed 2.4 million. Anthony Fisher should be ashamed.

      1. Is or is not the article flat wrong about the numbers?

        1. He’s being coy.

      2. Dude, the server squirrels hate you.

        1. They don’t want to be deported back to Mexico.

  3. The difference is that Trump is trying to instigate violence, complete with door-to-door urban warfare. Also it’s funny how he can’t decide if he wants them to stay or let them go. He once said, “We are so stupid. We put them over the border and they come right back in. We need to send them further away so it will take longer for them to return.” (And the Trumpkins cheer.)

    1. He once said, “We are so stupid.”

      So, friend of yours, eh?

        1. Honey is the current flavor of prog tears. Delicious. Salty last week. Honeyed this week. Who knows the huuuuuuuuge number of flavor combinations over the next 4 years?

          1. We don’t need 23 different flavors of prog tears.

      1. Watch out. When AM calls you “honey,” that means he’s almost to the “copy and paste replies” stage. Then you’re REALLY in for it.

    2. Maybe the NASA Muslim outreach program can be retasked under President Trump to send Mexicans to live on Mars.

      1. Who do you think is going to build that Mars Base?

        1. What is Newt’s Moon Colony, chopped liver?

  4. Much of the protesting of Trump’s election has been motivated by his stated plans to deport “two…even three million” people,

    He was on 60 mins Sunday night.

    The protests started last Wednesday

    How do you figure that?

    1. Trump is so evil that his evil extends backwards in time!!

    2. Uh, because he talked about his deportation plans all through the election? Like, you know, the entire time.

      1. i try googling Jan-Oct to discover his history of Deportation-Planning, and the best i get is Infowars, which i think, according to internet-rules, never counts.

        Is this like his gay-hatred? “common knowledge”

        1. #3 on his 10 Point Plan to put America First

          3. Move criminal aliens out day one, in joint operations with local, state, and federal law enforcement. We will terminate the Obama administration’s deadly, non-enforcement policies that allow thousands of criminal aliens to freely roam our streets.

          https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/immigration/

          1. It was outlined in a speech on Aug 31st.

          2. “” he talked about”” “” Like, you know, the entire time.”” “”his stated plans to deport “two…even three million” “”

            (cites website pablum)

            Clearly #3 was the reason people in portland decided to go play in traffic. I guess its obvious.

            1. What i find funniest about his chosen ‘specific number’ is that he clearly picked it to match Obama’s career-record.

              Its obviously a rhetorical gimmick to force people to talk about it – and when criticized, he can simply say, “Obama did it”…

              In the debate, however, Trump also claimed these millions of deportations have not been spoken about.

              “Nobody knows about it, nobody talks about it,” Trump said.

              Its not about facts – its about attitudes. He basically says he’ll do the same thing Obama has done, only *he’ll be proud about it*…. which enthuses the yokels and infuriates the snowflakes. Even though he himself acknowledges there’s no actual ‘new policy’ being proposed.

            2. So Trump did mention his deportation plans before the 60 minutes interview? It was possible to find him talking about deportations before Sunday? It was possible to find him mentioning deportations Jan-Oct somewhere other that Infowars?

              1. ….maybe.

                *resumes whittling*

  5. Under the Due Process Clause all illegal immigrants are afforded rights under the US Constitution and are entitled to full removal proceedings in court.

    That is technically true but doesn’t mean what the author thinks it does. Everyone is entitled to some due process but the amount of that varies depending on your status. LPRs, people with green cards, get a lot of due process before being deported. Illegal aliens, people with no status, get very little due process. There is a process known as expedited removal where the alien gets a single appearance before a judge and has very little grounds to object to his removal. Moreover, since they are in detention and won’t get out while their case is pending, most sign what is known as a stipulated removal order which waves their due process in return for getting to go home.

    So there really are not many or any significant due process barriers to deporting illegal aliens, let alone ones who have been convicted of crimes. Anyone who pretends there is and doing so is not practical either doesn’t know how immigration law works or is lying or both.

    1. John, Why does someone like you who is licking their chops at the prospect of a massive police roundup spend so much time on a libertarian website? I can guarantee you that here in the great nation of California we’re going to spend a great deal of time telling whatever Nazi-wannabe running the INS to get fuck himself or herself.

      I mean, don’t you have some place better to go on the internet besides hectoring people who really are interested in limited government about how equal protection doesn’t apply to Beaners and Muzzies?

      1. That is one hell of a way to score an own goal, broheim.

        1. He imagines himself playing 3D chess with us, his intellectual inferiors, while we watch him finger paint on the walls with his own feces.

          Maybe we can have him deported to Venezuela where he’ll fit right in.

      2. I thought he was here for the smart and zappy conversation.

      3. The INS has not existed for many years. Perhaps you could keep up with the times and get your Nazi agencies correct?

    2. “… either doesn’t know how immigration law works or is lying or both.”

      Since this is the Independent, we can safely say both.

  6. Trump’s policies will create violence and strife. This witch hunt against illegals will be very bloody and inhumane. It will be the opposite of ‘law and order’. And in fact, this is why the Trumpkins love him. He is a genius at instigation and incitement. He is the master baiter.

    1. He is the master baiter.

      Yes, and you are the first one to catch the emanations of his master baiting. I hope it gives you some warm stickies.

  7. “We must deport or imprison 3 million people (not sure yet which). But here’s what I’m sure of: This is a crisis situation so we need to act immediately but we can’t decide what to do with the remaining 8 million until we build the wall. But don’t worry it will all be very humane.”

  8. “Under the Due Process Clause all illegal immigrants are afforded rights under the US Constitution and are entitled to full removal proceedings in court. The president can’t deport by edict and since the courts are operating under a major backlog, they won’t be deported immediately”

    In fact, as I we repeatedly said before Trump was elected, Trump is not especially differentiated from Hillary (or Obama) on this issue.

    Progressives give a disproportionate weight to what people say and how people say them, and Trump just said things that Hillary and Obama would never say on camera.

    The big difference between Trump and Hillary (or Obama) on this is that Trump wants to build a wall. Regardless, when we’re judging people, what they do is always more important than what they say.

    P.S. Hillary wasn’t about to push for amnesty ahead of a reelection campaign either.

    1. Progressives give a disproportionate rate to who says it, and care little for the what or the how.

      1. Progressives would never say on camera that Obama bombs ISIS members regardless of whether there will be civilian casualties.

        Progressives would never say on camera that illegal aliens should be deported.

        Obama has done those things and Hillary would have actually done those things, but neither Obama nor Hillary would ever say those things–and that is VERY important to progressives.

        That Trump would SAY those things is far more important to progressives than Obama actually does those things.

        The signaling is far more important to them than the policy.

        On policy, Hillary and Trump are virtually indistinguishable to average people.

        The difference is just between what they’ll say on camera.

    2. For elections they have boiler-plate forms where they just fill in some blanks for candidate name and horrible anecdotes to explain why he’s a racist/sexist/fascist/Islamophobe/LGBT-ophobe.

    3. Re: Ken Shultz,

      The big difference between Trump and Hillary (or Obama) on this is that Trump wants to build a wall.

      It’s now going to be a fence. No, wait, an electronic border security system.

      Wait, no. It’s going to be a chalk line. Or something. It’s not the first time a politician fails to keep the promises he made during the campaign.

  9. “Trump Wants To Deport As Many Undocumented Immigrants As Obama Already Has”

    I know Anthony. I don’t know exactly what I was getting upset about (maybe it was the casual racism, the lying with impunity, the misogyny) on Election Day. TRUMP is going to make America great by doing pretty much what Obama did over the last 4 years. Godspeed Mr. Trump… don’t let your political party get in the way of that mission.

    1. “In related news, Amsoc’s tears are still delicious, news at 11:00.” – Real journalist(there’s a few left)

    2. Re: American Stultified,

      TRUMP is going to make America great by doing pretty much what Obama did over the last 4 years.

      Actions speak louder than words.

  10. Text of Trump’s immigration speech:
    http://dailycaller.com/2016/08…..mmigration

    Take a few minutes to read it directly without having the media spin it for you.

    Excerpts:

    The time has come for a new immigration commission to develop a new set of reforms to our legal immigration system in order to achieve the following goals:

    To keep immigration levels, measured by population share, within historical norms.
    To select immigrants based on their likelihood of success in U.S. society, and their ability to be financially self-sufficient. We need a system that serves our needs ? remember, it’s America First.
    To choose immigrants based on merit, skill and proficiency.
    And to establish new immigration controls to boost wages and to ensure that open jobs are offered to American workers first.
    We want people to come into our country, but they have to come in legally and properly-vetted, and in a manner that serves the national interest.

    1. Re: KevinP,

      Take a few minutes to read it directly without having the media spin it for you.

      What the fuck is there to spin? The speech is HORRIBLE!

      “To keep immigration levels, measured by population share, within historical norms.”

      What is that supposed to mean? What historical levels? From which source?

      “And to establish new immigration controls to boost wages and to ensure that open jobs are offered to American workers first.”

      What if, as an American business owner, I DON”T want to hire an “American”? The notion implies the job opening belongs to government and not to ME whose money is on the line. That reeks of SOCIALISM.

      And how are these controls supposed to boot wages? What does that mean? Boosting whose wages? Does whoever wrote that speech know anything about wages? About the price of labor?

      1. We get it Mexican. You don’t believe in borders or that there is any such thing as a nation state or the authority to control a national border. Other people don’t share that assumption. All you are doing is begging the larger question and then talking past them.

      2. And how are these controls supposed to boot wages? What does that mean?

        Well, there’s this thing called “supply and demand,” which libertarians normally grasp, except when it comes to the commodity known as “labor.” So, if you flood the country with low-skilled people, the supply of low-wage workers goes up, and that depresses wages at the low end.

        1. I think they realize it, they just see that a plus.

          Cheap low skill labor benefits those with secure jobs

  11. “… that’s more undocumented immigrants with criminal records than are currently in the country, according to the Department of Homeland Security.”

    The key here is how DHS determines its count. As the DHS has been acting as an open borders advocate it has a vested interest in minimizing the number listed as criminal. As the DHS has shown itself to be untrustworthy in the past I see no reason to trust it now.

  12. Fox News repeats the same old media/politician lie of 11-12 illegal aliens in the USA!!

    Univision boasts 50 million
    Retired INS M. Cutler talks 40-50 million
    Debbie Schlussel writes of 40 million
    CAPS Study 2007 talks of 38 million…

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