Election 2016

SNL Hillary Clinton Singing 'Hallelujah,' Or How Political Correctness Gave Us Trump

'It's almost as if the political acumen of Beyonce and Jay-Z counts for nothing!'


Screenshot via SNL

Consider Saturday Night Live's reaction to Donald Trump's improbable victory. A comedy show once known for skewering politicians and celebrities decided the occasion called for a maximally somber note: comedian Kate McKinnon, portraying Hillary Clinton, singing the recently departed Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah."

It was an emotional performance, and a nice tribute to Cohen. But Hillary Clinton isn't some defeated hero—she's an incredibly flawed politician with a track record of duplicity, corruption, and unfathomably bad foreign policy judgment. Trump becoming president is terrifying, but the person most responsible for his victory is Clinton.

The cold opening might have worked better had it been clear that SNL was actually in on the joke, and was making fun of mawkish coastal elites for treating Clinton's loss like it's a second 9/11. Alas, this was not the case. It was the reverse of SNL's recent, brilliant skit about a Trump voter playing Black Jeopardy: confirming expectations, rather than subverting them.

If the McKinnon number brought you to tears, and you didn't see Clinton's loss coming, and you don't want to live on this planet anymore, stop reading. If the first two things apply to you, but not the third—if you actually want to understand the Trump phenomenon so that you can stop it from ever happening again—there's a second video you should watch.

"It's almost as if the political acumen of Beyonce and Jay-Z counts for nothing!" rants British comedian Jonathan Pie in a definite video explaining why Trump won. (Pie is a satirical news reporter played by Tom Walker, but that doesn't make what he's saying any less valid.)

The entire thing is worth watching. Toward the end, Pie hits on something well worth repeating: Leftist overreach on political correctness is partly responsible for the present situation. As Pie says:

"When has anyone ever been persuaded by being insulted or labelled? So now if you're on the right or even against the prevailing view, you are attacked for raising your opinion. That's why people wait until they're in the voting booth. No one's watching anymore. There's no blame, or shame, and you can finally say what you really think and that's a powerful thing. …

All the polls were wrong, all of them, because when asked, people can't admit what they think. They're not allowed to. The left don't allow them to. We've made people unable to articulate their position for fear of being shut down. They're embarrassed to say it. Every time someone on the left has said 'you mustn't say that,' they are contributing to this culture. …

It's time to stop ignoring your opponents or worse trying to silence them, it's time to stop banning people from speaking in universities, it's time to stop thinking that reposting an article on your Facebook page is political engagement, that banning a gymnast from doing what he's good at because he insulted someone's religion somehow achieves something."

It's something Bill Maher seems to understand as well. On his weekend show, "Liberal Redneck" Trae Crowder explained that the Trump voters he interviewed wanted to send a message to politically-correct liberal elites.

Too many liberals respond to such a contention with some version of, well, what's wrong with trying to make people less racist? Nothing, of course. On the contrary: promoting non-racism is a good thing. But Trump's win should give liberals pause about whether shouting racist! at the less-educated white working class is a tactically sound strategy for defeating racism.

That doesn't mean politically-correct liberal elites are wrong about everything. In fact, they're right about a lot of policy matters—that free trade is good, for one thing. But they have utterly failed to explain why they're right to a huge segment of the country that was put-off by outrage-of-the-day culture. Sharing a John Oliver takedown on Facebook, pining for Jon Stewart, and singing "Hallelujah" with SNL is a feel-good exercise for a lot of people, but it isn't changing minds.

NEXT: Democrats Got Wrecked Again in State Legislative Races, and it Matters More Than You Might Think

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      1. Need good news?

        Gwen Ifill dead!!

        1. Do fuck off.

  1. Trump becoming president is terrifying,

    Oh, for fucks sake, go curl up in your safe space with some fruit sushi and take a chill pill.

    1. Hey now, he’s terrified. Go easy on the little guy.

    2. Haven’t you heard? Trumpets are rioting in the streets and … oh wait, that’s crybaby leftists. But wait! Hate crimes on the rise and … oh wait, that was a few already debunked hoaxes. Never mind.

    3. Well, a lot of people do seem terrified at the prospect. I think that by definition that makes it terrifying.

      I think those people are being idiots, but that’s a separate issue.

      1. I do have a real fear that Trump will go all statist on us and completely ruin any hope for ending the WOD and the militarization of police. I’m just not freaking out about it. I mean, we had two choices and they both sucked. So now all we can do is hope that Trump doesn’t turn out too bad. It was a 100% sure thing with Hillary that she would be horrible.

        1. The fascist clown beat the fascist criminal? Don’t blame me, i voted for the stoned idiot.

          1. *Strongly nods in affirmation*

          2. Put that on a goddamn shirt.

          3. Me too. The stoned idiot was smart enough to know that he didn’t want imperial power and would have pushed decisions down to lower levels of govt. Anyone whining about Trump or Hillary who didn’t vote for him deserve the president they got. Enjoy the ride everybody

          4. Hear! Hear!

            1. Team America, Team Libertarian! Fuck Yeah!!!!

          5. I’m with the “Stoned Idiot,” because the other two are just IDIOTS. Why is anyone “terrified” of Donald Trump? The guy wants national day care for young mothers and a three tiered income tax similar to the current system. What’s the difference between Trump and Clinton? What? She has more blacks behind her when she gives speeches, and she talks about inclusiveness? Those same blacks have inner city youth unemployment that’s unacceptably high and Hillary wants to increase the minimum wage and raise the income tax on the folks who might hire them? It’s insanity ….

            Of course! I’m with the Stoned Idiot, ex governor of New Mexico. Yes! I’ll take him over either of these other two idiots ANY day of the week.

            1. As the campaigns wore on, I found that I agreed with Gary Johnson less than I expected but wanted him as president more than I expected because I understood better how unfit are Clinton and Trump for the office.

    4. It doesn’t take a whole lot to terrify Rico. Flyover country, normal women, firearms, drinks stronger than a sarsparilla, an empty shelf at the hair salon….. you know what, it would probably be quicker to just list the things that DON’T terrify the poor little snowflake.

      1. Sarsaparilla? Always pictured him as a Grape Ne-hi man.

      2. Prediction: If the fucking coastal elites don’t put the term Flyover Country out to pasture Right Fucking Now, then this kind of shit will keep happening.

        Telling people, “we hate you and you are fucking awful so vote for us because we’re on the side of light and good, and by the way we fucking hate you” ain’t gonna work anymore….

    5. Giving Robby shit is not only expected, but required of the commentariat.

      That said, let’s focus our brown bombs on the fact that in this case it’s actually just him being a crappy writer.

      I think we all know that the word “terrifying” has essentially lost all meaning, just like “awesome” has. Will our President likely be a useless shitbag and puppet of (nominally different) corporate interests and not give a damn about anyone’s civil liberties? Undoubtedly. That doesn’t imply his opponent was any better.

      The use of the word “terrifying” is particularly retarded in this circumstance because of all the proggy pants-shitting. It’s the widespread mental dysentery that covered all of media (social or otherwise). Some of these people claim to be in fear. Others are so suggestible that they’ve caught the dysentery because they drink from the same well that everyone else cleaning their shit-stained pants in.

      Bad Robby. Smacks Soave with a rolled-up newspaper. Stop shitting on the floor and wait until we let you outside first.

      1. I think if you are a DACA or DAPA protected alien then you have genuine reason to be terrified, give that Trump has explicitly said he intends to have some goons bust down your door, tear you away from your US Citizen spouse and/or children and deport you to a foreign country.

        1. (And of course, you also have legitimate reason to be terrified if you are married to or a child of a DACA or DAPA alien. )

          1. If you find yourself terrified that someone says they’ll enforce a law that you’re guilty of breaking, perhaps you ought not break the law.

            And “terrified” is not even the right way to feel. It’s hyperbole. Terrified that someone might deport you for taking something you weren’t entitled to at the start? It can easily be rectified by leaving and working to attain what it legitimately. That’s not much of a threat.

            1. I didn’t realize the children and spouses of illegal aliens were guilty of breaking a law.

              But it’s good to know that four year olds shouldn’t be terrified at the thought that their mother is going to be kidnapped and dragged away to a foreign country by armed goons.

              1. You’re delusional if you think that’s going to happen.

                Terrifying children over political hot air coming out of the mouth of a demagogue which will never come to fruition is child abuse.

                1. You’re delusional if you think that’s going to happen.

                  Trump explicitly advocated deporting all 11 million illegal aliens during his campaign.
                  About HALF of those people would qualify for DACA or DAPA. (Not all of them applied because they were afraid of just this scenario).

                  Now, he’s taken it back, but it’s not beyond the realm of possibility given that HE ACTUALLY SAID HE WAS GOING TO DO IT at one point.

                  Put yourself in their shoes. Would you consider his political change of tune during the campaign a rock solid guarentee it wasn’t going to happen?

                  Nevermind that DACA/DAPA is set to expire every couple of years. Trump just needs to not renew it and they’re fucked.
                  Blow it off is easy for you. You aren’t the one who has to worry about it happening to you , or your wife, or your mother.

                  1. You neglect the pure logistics of it all because you’re thinking with your emotional head instead of your rational one.

                    Show me how the state can afford to do it. The INS ain’t shit. Police departments, bloated as they are from the drug war, have nowhere near the expanse necessary, and many won’t have the motivation. They are not beholden to a President, and blind eyes will be everywhere. The National Guard is not under the control of the President, even if the last one thought so.

                    There is one organization big enough to do it: the military. Tell me what you think would happen if that order comes down. I’ll leave you to reason the consequences out.

                    1. The National Guard can be federalized at the order of the President. They are actually in the US Army. Look up Eisenhower and Little Rock. Also review posse comitatus and the enforcement acts.

              2. If you came to the country illegally you should be living in fear of being caught and kicked out. Play by the rules or get fucked by them.

                1. If you came to the country illegally you should be living in fear of being caught and kicked out. Play by the rules or get fucked by them.

                  Spoken like a true libertarian.

              3. She would be dragged away and locked up if she committed any other crime – – – – –
                Who gets to decide that breaking law A is different from breaking law B?
                Do thieves get to stay home instead of going to jail?

            2. I also didn’t realize that people are legally responsible for actions their parents took when they were 3. Or that it’s not terrifying to be deported to a country that you don’t even remember living in.
              Or that being forcibly separated from your children isn’t terrifying.

              You do realize what DAPA and DACA are for , right?

              1. The problem with progs is that they take Trump literally but not seriously. Forgot who said that, but it is true.

                1. Yes, your first thought when someone threatens to kidnap you, your mom, or your wife at gunpoint and transport them to another country, is always “Am I interpreting this statement with the right amount of nuance?”

                  I know your major enemy is “progs” but let’s not treat the actual potential victims of this policy as if they have no place in the conversation.

                  1. Hyperbole is unbecoming. I asked you to work out the logistics of what you’re claiming can and will be done above. I realize that mine’s a harder question to answer, but adding additional hyperbole elsewhere in the thread to avoid answering it tells me plenty about what you actually believe.

        2. Neither Clinton nor Trump were in favor of ignoring illegals and leaving them alone. She is from the administration that has deported more of them than any other in history. She is NOT in favor of leaving the border open.

          Wall vs. “really high fence and armed border patrols” is a ridiculous difference to be terrified of.

          Deporting 2.5 millions vs. 3 milions is just not enough difference to make one rejoice if she won and despair if he won.

          1. Clinton never claimed she was going to round up all 11 million illegal aliens and deport them. Clinton is of the same party as the guy who implemented DACA and DAPA. One could reasonably expect the continuation of those programs if she won.

            1. Correct me if I’m wrong, but DACA and DAPA are executive orders right? Why should be praising the President overstepping the bounds of his office just cause we like what those things do?

              1. If I was a DAPA or DACA alien, I wouldn’t give a fuck whether the thing that lets me live my life without being kidnapped at gunpoint is “legal” or not.

                My point is that there are lots of people, millions, in fact, who have totally legitimate reasons to be afraid of what Trump is going to do to them.

                They’re not all a bunch of douchy white progressive coastal hipsters. They are human beings with families who just want to be free to live their lives and do work in exchange for money.

            2. I still say that if they’ve got you despairing/rejoicing over the difference in how aggressive they will purse a policy they both agree with, you are a useful idiot.

              1. HazelMeade aspires to be a useful idiot, but hasn’t mastered the “useful” part just yet.

        3. If your spouse is a citizen then you qualify to apply for legal status and don’t need DAPA and DACA since that isn’t what they’re for. But what are facts to a histrionic cunt.

    6. YOUR FACE IS TERRIFYING. (I can say that now because with Trump president online bullying is legal again.)

  2. I thought this skit was a slap in Cohen’s face. It wasn’t a heartfelt memorial to him; it was a hijacking of his passing for expressing political butthurt.

    1. As we say in Trumpistan: A-yowmp.


      1. Trumputistan since now Putin and the KGB are going to be jointly running things along with Trump.

        1. But Trump’s gonna hold the line. All KGB agents and Russian governors will be at least as hot as Anna Chapman.

          1. +1 Spy who shagged me

        2. You have mouth too much talk, comrade. Clinton patriot family must not overhear plans.

    2. Honestly, I think it was probably both.

      But also a slap in the face to Cohen’s memory.

      And can we give “Hallelujah” a fucking rest? The man wrote a lot of other good songs too.

      1. Give me back my broken night
        my mirrored room, my secret life
        it’s lonely here,
        there’s no one left to torture

        Give me absolute control
        over every living soul
        And lie beside me, baby,
        that’s an order!

        Give me crack and anal sex
        Take the only tree that’s left
        and stuff it up the hole
        in your culture

        Give me back the Berlin wall
        give me Stalin and St Paul
        I’ve seen the future, brother:
        it is murder.

        1. Ah, man. Wouldn’t it have been great if she sang that instead?

          Destroy another fetus now
          We don’t like children anyhow
          I’ve seen the future, baby:
          it is murder

        2. Bravo, sir. Encore, encore!

            1. Making that connection was fantastic. It’s so much more relevant to what’s going on.

              One even has to admit that Trump’s use of “You Can’t Always Get What You Want” has a lot of lyrical connection to what had actually happened when viewed from a different vantage. It’s a brilliant kick-in-the-teeth to twist it such.

              In this case, though, I think these lyrics being relevant are less of a “written so generically they fit any situation” and more of an admission of “same shit, different day.” It stays relevant because not that much really changes, and especially not for the better.

            2. Thanks that was a fantastic video.

        3. Yes, that’s one of my favorites.

          1. I think Waiting for the Miracle might be my favorite of his. But there are so many good ones.

      2. The funny thing is, most people who cover Hallelujah skip the best verses.

        1. Cohen often did that himself while playing live. Or sang entirely different versions. It seems like he was never satisfied with the song. Before recording it in 1984 it had already been through 80 drafts.

        2. It’s because they’re covering the Jeff Buckley cover of John Cale’s cover. Cale picked the verses he thought sounded dirtiest and people have mostly been doing his version ever since.

    3. Maybe McKinnon can do a Trump character as well as she did a Hillary character. They both appear to have the same hairstylist.

    4. Yes. It might have been a nice touch to end the skit with her dropping the pantsuit and taking a shit on his grave. “Live from New York, it’s Saturday Night!”

    5. I did my best, it wasn’t much
      I couldn’t feel, so I tried to touch
      I’ve told the truth, I didn’t come to fool you

      I thought that this was the punchline but apparently they didn’t light the LAUGH sign to cue the audience. I’ on the other hand, gave a chuckle. I couldn’t believe it when it was evident that she was playing it straight.

    6. My Trump voting, music appreciating father in law swears that that skit was not done in the character of Hillary Clinton, but was simply Kate McKinnon playing the song as a tribute to Leonard Cohen. He watched the whole thing and found it quite heartfelt. I didn’t bother to argue with the guy – whatever makes him happy.

      1. Yes, McKinnon had the pantsuit and wig ready for another skit and figured it would save time to already have them on?

    7. Exactly.

  3. The nervous laughter during Dave’s opening was the highlight.

    “I haven’t seen white people this mad since the O.J. verdict.”

    1. That’s priceless.

      1. There was also this:

        And I don’t even think it’s the most important thing we’re dealing with. Don’t forget. Don’t forget all the things that are going on. Shootings. What you think about that? All these shootings in the last year. The worst mass shootings in the history of the United States. Pulse Nightclub, which they said ISIS did, and it turned out that wasn’t exactly what happened.

        If that is what happened, then ISIS is scarier than I thought, because they have very deep cover operatives. “Look out I’m going out deep for this one, I might have to get a Grindr account, and jerk a few guys off, to throw them off the trail.”

        I don’t think the guy was in ISIS. What happened was he pledged allegiance to ISIS before he did what he did, which is not the same as being in ISIS, you know what I mean? Like, if I was going to have sex with a girl (and) right before I did, I screamed out “Wu-Tang!” ? that don’t mean I’m in the Wu-Tang Clan. I’m just shouting Wu-Tang out.

        1. I miss Chappelle’s Show.

        2. Dave Chapelle continues to be a national treasure.

        3. Did it ever definively come out that the guy was gay? I thought the FBI basically concluded that was not true, I know their were rumors of him being gay and having a grinder account/lovers?

          1. No, nothing definitive, and you’re right that the FBI ruled it out. Who knows.

          2. Too many people involved in spinning the narrative to tell. The gay guys that say they saw him in the club on multiple occasions and on Grindr seemed to have the least amount of reason to lie about it.

            The truth will come out in some report in a couple of years that no one will pay attention to.

          3. Are we fact-checking Dave Chappelle now? Is that where we’re at as a Nation?


            1. Is Wayne Brady gonna hafta fact-check a bitch!?

          4. It came out that the guy was exactly what he said he was.

            A Muslim, inspired by ISIS, killing homosexuals. Because his faith demands it.

            Everything else we heard was put out there with the sole purpose of obscuring those facts.

            1. That doesn’t necessarily mean he wasn’t gay or bi. Turns out that having societies where men at their sexual peak are kept strictly segregated from women isn’t the best strategy to limit homosexual behavior.

    2. Dave admitted to voting for Hillary, but he also pointed out that she was a horribly flawed candidate and that Trump doing shit like openly admitting that he manipulated tax laws to his own advantage was something he’d never seen before.

      1. I kinda thought Trump merely admitted to accepting allowable carry-forward tax deductions, and called doing so ‘smart’.

        1. Its not so smart, Im doing it this year (and maybe a bit next year) and its most definitely not from being smart.

        2. Yeah… manipulated.

          As in “typed in the amount of a capital loss in the line labeled “capital loss carryover”.

          You know. That crazy secret stuff only the elites know about.

      2. He voted for Hillary, but he didn’t do it happily, so he got all kinds of shit for it.

      3. I can’t stand this ‘she’s flawed’ thing. She’s more than just ‘flawed’. What she did isn’t a fucking blemish. It’s a pattern of sociopath behaviour; a long history of miscreant behaviour. She’s incorrigible. So knock it off with this ‘flawed’ crap. I’m flawed but I don’t stray off my moral compass. She’s completely off that track.

        1. ZOMG!!#11
          Rufus just admitted he’s EXACTLY like Hillary!!

          1. D’OH!

  4. Toward the end, Pie hits on something well worth repeating: Leftist overreach on political correctness is partly responsible for the present situation. As Pie says:

    Are you sure? Honorary Coastal Goodthinker Steve Chapman is certain that it’s because the media expects too much sensibility from uppity white males in flyover country. The elites didn’t fail white males, white males failed them!

    1. Don’t forget white women, they are traitors too.

      1. Yeah but they vote like their white patriarchal overlords tell them to.

        1. You know this how?

      2. Yeah, married women failed Hillary sooo much.

        My wife feels so guilty about not voting Hillary that I think she just may flip off the fucking progressives and vote Republican in every election from now on.

        Don’t fucking call people inhuman monsters for not obeying you and think that’s going to change their minds.

        Our middle fingers are staying out until you fucking Proggie shits sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up and maybe contemplate the fucking mess you’ve made!!!!

  5. Donald Trump’s improbable victory.

    Conventional Wisdom, FTW!

  6. “Leftist overreach on political correctness”

    So it’s not political correctness, but its “overreach” which is the problem?

    Unfortunately, though, overreach is hard to separate from political correctness. If you’re PC and you try to stop being overreaching, there’s a risk you’ll stop being PC.

    For example, admitting that un-PC people are entitled to take place in civic discourse? So much for the idea of repressive tolerance, so much for non-PC people being wicked racists, or dupes of wicked racists or systemic racism. Don’t you see that by acknowledging that someone who isn’t PC is a legitimate participant in civic discourse, you’re contradicting major parts of the PC agenda?

  7. If the McKinnon number brought you to tears, and you didn’t see Clinton’s loss coming, and you don’t want to live on this planet anymore….

    You might be a sudeman?

    1. I was rolling my eyes — the piano solo was as somber as if someone well loved had just died, not someone widely-hated who just lost a stupid election.

      1. You don’t understand Krabappel. All women died on November 9th. All. Women.

  8. That British comedian rant was fucking awesome.

    I watched the first few minutes of SNL, because I knew exactly what it would be and exactly what would be said about it. But it was dumber than I thought it could possibly be.

    1. Yeah, but I looked up a couple of his other videos, and it looks like this is a case of a stopped clock being right twice a day. His rant about the NHS in the UK for example shows that he’s a true believer in goodies from government’s magic purse.


      1. They all are. I swear to god, there’s some kind of Journolist thing going on, where a bunch of people now (but only now) keep saying “identity politics is bad, this is why we lost, oh wait, also, we need to socialism twice as hard.”

        Compare his rant with this guy’s. Or that Bill Burr thing someone posted on the weekend. Same talking points over and over again. Half I haven’t heard from the left before they lost, and half the usual “we are bringing you vast riches, you poor people, why won’t you understand????”

        1. Ironically these comedians are largely motivated by the same sentiments that turned people to Trump. They have a vague resentment of some ethereal power elite they blame for all the world’s problems and it needs to be smashed by a radical outsider first and foremost.

          It’s basically impossible to dissuade them from that thinking. They’re like a bunch of hungry people who are upset about being squeezed by a handful of entrenched, government-protected cartelized farmers who are price-gouging, and all the angry hungry people want to do is lynch the farmers and burn their crops, then give their land to the nearest demagogue. Try explaining to them that if they do that, there’ll just be even less food, and they’ll just accuse you of being in the pocket of the hypothetical rich farmers. Kind of a lost cause I think.

        2. That first little shit is an idiot. MOAR Socialism, that’ll get it done.

          Hey you flyover shits, have we got something for you MOAR Socialism, how about them apples.

          Fucking idiots….

    2. The rant was fun, but it would have been superb if he had done it before the election. I don’t know what his pre-election stuff was like and don’t really care.

  9. Too many liberals respond to such a contention with some version of, well, what’s wrong with trying to make people less racist?

    The smug assumption that people who disagree with you are racists, for a start.

    1. If you think the only reason someone can disagree with you is that they are racist, evil, or otherwise not acting in good faith, the problem is with you. John Stuart Mill has a remark in On Liberty, something to the effect of “He who knows only his side a case, knows neither.”

      1. It’s gotten out of hand when a white guy says “I don’t see color” and he’s ridiculed and lectured that that statement is a “microagression” against “people of color”. See, we microaggress without even REALIZING it because of our privilege. That’s why we need academicians to enlighten us. That sanctimonious crap was why otherwise decent people voted for Trump.

    2. The smug assumption that people who disagree with you are racists, for a start.

      And that’s if you set aside the evil notion that making other people do things is a somehow, intrinsically, a good thing.

  10. Let’s see here. Trump still Hitler, Hillary to blame, we have to stop it from happening again. Ok, I don’t get this last one. I’m supposed to stop leftists from self destructing by doubling down on PC non-sense and screaming racism at everyone who doesn’t agree with them? Sorry, can’t do it. Can’t be done. They’ll double down now.

    1. We’re better off when each party controls only one of the executive or legislative branch. Bad shit happens when one party controls both. I’d rather Team Blue get their shit together and be there to yell at Team Red and cause gridlock.

      1. That won’t happen for a while, since the 2018 Senate races favor the Republicans. But we can always count on weasels like McConnell and Ryan to “reach across the aisle” and work together with the Democrats to screw us all.

        1. You don’t work with Democrats. That requires cooperation and compromise. You just give Democrats everything they want. That’s what ‘work with’ means in their version of reality.

        2. Worse than that, what if Trump appoints another John Roberts to the court?

          Right-wingers kept tossing off the “hillary court” as a terror that should compel me to vote for the Giant Douche, but I have no reason to believe that Trump’s supreme court picks would be any better than Hillary’s once they were wearing the black dress.


          1. I hope his first SC nom is Janice Rogers Brown.

            Her understanding of the Constitution pretty much squares with most people here, only it’s better (certainly better than mine). Also, she’s black, so the explosion of proggy heads would be amusing.

            1. That would be great. I bet it won’t happen.

            2. A black appointed by a republican is last thing any black person wants now unless they like being black balled by their own race.

            3. Same thing would happen as the last time a Republican nominated a conservative black to the court: they would do everything they could to destroy her and, if she did manage to squeak through they’d still be so butthurt decades later they’d make an HBO movie about the hearings still trying to tear her down.

      2. Yeah, gridlock is always best. Except for that the GOP could really get rid of a lot of the bullshit foisted upon us by the left. Of course they won’t, they,ll be too busy heaping their own bullshit onto the pile.

        1. ^This.

          I’d rather Trump sit in the WH, put his feet up, and do nothing for the next four years.

          1. He should work on his golf game. He, Obama, W. Bush, and Slick Willie could have a nice foursome. Then they could play golf.

            1. Apparently he’s talking about only visiting the White House and living at Trump Tower. That may keep him out of trouble.

  11. For 8 years, people who disagreed with Obama were called racists. For the last years if you disagreed with Hillary you were called sexist of deplorable by pointing out her influence peddling, lies, violations of national security and allowing the Foundation to accept funds form Russia, and Arab states that persecute women and gays. SO liberals are now surprised that after alienating 50% of the population, Clinton loses.

    1. They also alienated the Bernie Bros, so altogether I’d say they pissed off more than 50%.


    2. Add in the fact that “racist”, “sexist”, “homophobic” and “misogynist” are generic insult words to various factions of the left. It means “I’m angry at the fact that you don’t agree with me” and is used to shut down opposition.

      So people on the left no longer have a clue what any of those words mean.

    3. With all the talk of homophobia, I’m amused how Trump is reportedly leaning toward Richard Grinnell (an openly gay man) as Ambassador to the UN. On the one hand, he was US spokesman at the UN under Bush (so, with John Bolton possibly at State, Grinnell would be next in line among Republicans experienced there), but the delicious irony of Trump putting a homosexual in the role of lambasting actual-homophobe foreign powers is simply beautiful…

    4. I read one article where they were also blaming the Koch brothers even though they didn’t support trump

  12. if you actually want to understand the Trump phenomenon so that you can stop it from ever happening again

    What if I want to stop the “Obama Phenomenon” from ever happening again? What if I am in favor of individual freedom and creativity? Maybe I should watch The Wild Bunch again.

    1. “What if I want to stop the “Obama Phenomenon” from ever happening again?”


    2. Then you’re not Rico’s kind of person. Rico is a bog standard Obama/Sanders liberal. If he hates Hildog, it’s mostly because she’s not far enough to the left for his liking.

    3. This^

      It really does show the slant of Reason.com. The fact that the Dems have been mobilizing the populist left FOR YEARS, so that shit is burning in the streets, and it’s only a Trump Phenomenon that is terrifying? I don’t think it should take too much to be EQUALLY fearful of the consequences of the radicalized people in the squiggly blue states just as much as the radicalized people in the red square states.

      1. cont

        Again, when the shit has begun to hit the fan, they show which way they really drift. But there’s formerly libertarian folk that I’ve had use for that have run back to their “safe place” within the right, so I guess it’s even-ish. I’ve mildly joked about doing so/being driven their by what I’ve seen here at reason the last six months, but the reality is I’ve already accepted the fact that I’m bound to be on the wrong side of the razor wire when whichever hardliners ascend. It’s inevitable, there’s no stopping it. I’ll at least have peace that I’ve, for my part, lived by my principles. I’ve spent quite a while sniffing out where Force is used and under what pretext. Left or Right or Moderate, Statism is all the same – it is conceited assholes harassing peaceful and productive people. Forgetting that apparently is easy for some and they balm their fears with ardently believing that there are REALLY Top Men out there. They’ll eventually cave and go pecking at that button connected to nothing, and when the random pellets drop they’ll convince themselves that their beliefs and behaviors had anything to do with it. Talk, and word processed words, are cheap.

      2. Ja – and, historically speaking, the “Left” has killed a lot more people than the “Right” ever has. Stalin and Mao really pumped those numbers up.

  13. I would have thought “Nevermind” would have been a more appropriate song for Hilary’s defeat.

    1. “The Woman Who Sold the Country” ( to the tune of Bowie, natch)

      As long as we’re raping the corpses of recently dead performers with actual talent.

  14. That’s why people wait until they’re in the voting booth. No one’s watching anymore. There’s no blame, or shame, and you can finally say what you really think and that’s a powerful thing. ?

    A kind of “safe space” if you will.

  15. She should’ve dressed like Elvis Hitler and covered ‘Ten Wheels for Jesus.’

    That would have been poignant and humorous.

    1. Actually, the more I think about it, she kind of WAS dressed like Elvis Hitler.

      Or ‘Beasts of Bourbon.’ She could’ve done Beasts of Bourbon. That would’ve been funny.

  16. “That doesn’t mean politically-correct liberal elites are wrong about everything.”

    Politically correct elites are not liberals, that’s been obvious for a long time to most of us. Leftist is the term, not liberal.

    1. I think we should hold a style referendum to decide whether, henceforth, whenever Reason refers to progressives as ‘liberals’, they shall use square quotes around ‘liberal.’

  17. That doesn’t mean politically-correct liberal elites are wrong about everything.

    Sometimes I wonder.

    1. If they are on the right side of an issue, it is usually for a bad reason.

    2. Yes! They are wrong about just about everything. Ask yourself, “What are they pro-choice about?” The answer: “Nothing.” Abortion? They’re not pro-choice about paying for abortion. Fossil fuels? They all want the government to force them (they can’t do it on their own) to drive electric cars. Smoking? Nope. Health care? They want single payer, government run healthcare. Food labeling? Go look for yourself. Education? How ’bout that free college for all, paid for by you. Fuck, they’re not even pro-choice about porn and prostitution like they used to be back in the day. Now, everyone needs protection from herself. Are they pro-choice about retirement? You can answer that one without my help. They even have rules about which races can adopt Native American children because they need to keep the Indians racially; they can’t sell off their share of the reservation, owned by the tribe and not the individual. Try sending your child to a private school …. you still have to pay for the public school … too bad. How ’bout that NPR and the NEA … you guessed it. You have to pay for that too. I could go on, but I don’t have time to write that book.

  18. that doesn’t make what he’s saying any less valid.


    The part where he asserts that Bernie could have won…. well, doesn’t invalidate what he says, but it does provide a giant red-flag that these Clever People who Saw It Coming really aren’t very clever at all.

    1. Yeah, that almost made me roll my eyes and turn it off, but he was spot on later in the video about the left winning the culture war actually hurt them by reducing them from being able to argue to simply spewing insults. A lot of people (mostly morons, to be fair) still think sexist/racist/homophobe/ Islamophobe/deplorable/offensive-person/etc actually is an effective counterargument.

      1. Well, at was effective so long as the average red state “goober” (or rural purple state goober) was willing to say “fuck it” and abstain, figuring if they kept their heads and asses low they could keep their own ass out of the line of fire. Our clarifying economic/monetary/fiscal picture, along with ACA, AND people losing houses over not baking a cake (as well as some activated actual racism here and xenophobia there) shook them out of their torpor. They realized that eventually they would be come for. At least that’s their belief. If certain people want to accentuate one portion (just the pushing of Political Correctness) of the picture above another, to spur on their own fears and rationalize why they went back to the nipple, fine. They should just realize that they are easily seen as not having a broad view.

  19. If keep telling my Prog friends that if I were chairman of the DNC, the first thing I would do is call Comedy Central and ask them to cancel the Daily Show. They all look at me like I am nuts. They cant’ seem to grasp how much dumber that show has made Progressives and what assholes makes them look like to the rest of the country.

    They just can’t see it and likely never will.

    1. Didn’t I see somewhere (here?) that people were saying that if Jon Stewart was still on The Daily Show, Hillary would’ve won?

      They’re that clueless.

      1. I don’t know why they have to keep grasping for boogeymen here. I thought it was already decided this Trumpocalypse is the fault of racist white people? I read an article, well I couldn’t read all of it, that actually claimed that 60% of the country are hopelessly racist.

        1. It’s ~75% of the country. The 25% who voted for a white woman who once called young black men “superpredators” and didn’t come out in favor of gay marriage until it became politically expedient to do so? They ain’t racist.

      2. I hear that too. That is of course completely wrong. It does, however, make me laugh to think of Colbert and Oliver and the rest of the congress of baboons surrounding that show taking the blame for Trump winning. Watching the Progs destroy their own is always fun.

        1. I heard Trevor Noah on NPR putting in his two cents on Trump. That fucker’s from South Africa and he feels entitled to come over here and shit on half this country and the other half applauds him? What other country in the world could you expect to go to and make jokes about how terrible they are and not expect to get the shit kicked out of you? I mean, even if you’re right, you just don’t do that sort of thing. And that’s what the left thinks of as tolerance – letting people shit all over you?

          1. What other country in the world could you expect to go to and make jokes about how terrible they are and not expect to get the shit kicked out of you?

            Pretty sure if he tried that as an American in South Africa, they’d put a tire around his neck and set him on fire.

            1. Which is actually a very positive comment about the US.

          2. I agree. I have spent a lot of time in Germany. I have never once lectured any Germans about their sins relating to World War II. And if I ever did, I would not blame them if they beat the shit out of me.

            1. If they would beat the shit out of you for saying something they don’t like, maybe their country deserves to be badmouthed.

              1. Maybe. Or maybe I am just an asshole, who doesn’t know when to shut up.

                1. You?

                  I just can’t believe that!

      3. There’s a link to an article in this very blog post that makes that claim.

    2. Maybe we should cancel college instead. Maybe then 18-22 year olds can actually grow the fuck up and stop needing puppies and coloring books every time something they don’t like happens.

    3. To be fair, proggies all know in their heart of hearts that the new guy isn’t any good. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen a headline informing me that the Daily Show OBLITERATED some strawman strawperson person of straw.

      Anyone still watching it is only doing so out of fear that it would be racist not to watch the black guy’s show.

      1. It’s now John Oliver who eviscerates people.

        1. He seems to be Stewart’s de facto successor as Pravda’s chief satirist. I suspect they may end up replacing Noah with him next season, unless of course they’re afraid that would be racist.

          On the bright side, none of my facebook friends have posted anything by Samantha Bee.

    4. Over on Jezesmell they’re jerking off John Oliver at this very moment.

      No mention of what will end up as his career-defining performance: daring Trump to run last year. I guess it’s not so funny to them now. It will be the only thing he will ever be remembered for ultimately.

      On Jezzie they’re actually lamenting the fact that they can’t somehow force people to watch such neo-commie pablum.

      It’s funny but of course it’s also….Sad!?

      1. You must really hate yourself. I hit my limit of self-flagellation when I bother to read articles in the New Yorker (and even then I don’t read the comments).

        1. Picture Daniel Plainview at the end of There Will Be Blood, alone in his mansion, shooting at furniture. That’s me when I get near an internet connection.

          Except replace ‘mansion’ with ‘small cold apartment,’ and ‘furniture’ with ‘leftists on the internet.’

          I’m not proud of any of this.

          1. Do you comment or juts lurk? And if you comment, do you end your rebuttals with “I drink your milkshake; I drink it up!”

      2. I only saw that yesterday. It was glorious. And I bet he didn’t send him a check, either.

        Hmm….anyone ever saw Oliver and PB at the same place?

    5. freddie deboer and iowahawk have been relentlessly hammering that point on their twitter feeds.

  20. Hillary would have won if that is what she sounded like. Real Hillary sounds more like someone shreeking Harcourt Fenton Mudd.

  21. I’ll leave the slapping around of Robby to other commenters. The Pie video actually struck me as the big story. The funny thing is, I’ve had this up on my DerpBook page for a few days and have heard nothing but total silence from my progressive acquaintances. I’ve encountered just what he’s talking about in dealing with them. Anything you try to tell them, even in good faith, that doesn’t fit their preconceived narrative automatically meets with a shouting denunciation.

    1. and have heard nothing but total silence from my progressive acquaintances

      Lucky you. I made one post on this election and got progsplained how I was really just a meanie for not letting the hurt people heal. It was full of all the smug condescension that you’d imagine from a bunch of Bay Area New Agers emoting on the topic of the election.

      1. Oh, they already know I’m a meanie. I’m opinionated enough that that’s been established. What surprised me is that I usually get some sort of response. On this one, nothing.

    2. surprisingly a very liberal relative of mine posted the video, maybe they are starting to think about how they treat people with differing view points.

  22. They had a skit where Chris Rock cameo’s where Dave and the cast are watching the election from someones house, presumably in Manhattan somewhere, and of course everyone is a die hard liberal. Dave tries to explain that maybe everyone who votes for Trump isn’t racist and the punchline at the end is kind of funny (shrugs)? Kinda sad to see two of the greatest comedians involved in such a weak sketch that had great potential.

    Election Night – SNL

    1. You know how people used to say that the only man in the world who could hold Michael Jordan under 20 ppg was Dean Smith? Well, the only thing in the world that can make Dave Chappelle not funny is SNL.

      1. Well, he could have, you know, not let them do it. Like Norm MacDonald.

        Full throttle. No compromises.

        I’m not doing that shit because it ain’t funny!

        1. The running joke in his SNL news bits about Bill wanting to kill Hillary was pretty funny.

          1. And the Chinese guy.

    2. I saw that sketch as Chappelle and Rock being condescendingly sarcastic to to their white friends. They knew Hillary would lose, unlike the friends, because they understand how racist America is.

      1. All I saw is that those dudes were going to do some spiking of the wine and get some raping in. The shameful fat broad was signalling it was ok with that six Xanax comment.

        I guess it just depends on your perspective.

        In the end, may have been funnier if every other line wasn’t flubbed.

    3. Yeah, I was very surprised not to see any acknowledgment in this post of the Chappelle/Rock skit, which pretty pointedly skewered white liberals’ view of the election.

  23. That doesn’t mean politically-correct liberal elites are wrong about everything. In fact, they’re right about a lot of policy matters?that free trade is good, for one thing.

    Liberal elites don’t generally strike me a free traders.

    1. Yeah, I thought we were all going to live in communes and make all our own stuff locally?

    2. Clinton passed NAFTA, Obama was working towards TPP…the history is there.

      1. NAFTA even has Free Trade in its name! It therefore HAS to be free trade, because when has a government action ever been undertaken with less than scrupulous honesty?

      2. Bill Clinton signed NAFTA twenty years ago.

        TPP has a little freeer trade in a package that’s mostly shit.

        1. Should I have made that more clear, that I was referring to the Clinton who actually had the power to sign legislation in 1994? Sorry.

          NAFTA and TPP may not be exactly what you want, but certainly it’s a step closer to it than tariffs, no?

          1. NAFTA is a step closer.

            TPP is one step forward and at least two steps back.

            And specifying which Clinton is important, since Hillary wasn’t (as of the last iteration of her “public” positions) too keen on NAFTA despite her husband having signed it.

  24. what’s wrong with trying to make people less racist? Nothing, of course. On the contrary: promoting non-racism is a good thing.

    Never change, man.

  25. Due to technical issues, something was left out of this piece. I just added it. You’re welcome.

    1. I don’t care what anyone else says, Robby. You’re the best.

      1. I don’t care what anyone everyone else says, Robby. You’re the best.

        What Juvie meant to say.

    2. ‘Technical Issues’
      ENB had taken all the purple crayons?

  26. Very good piece by Robby.

    Yeah, the progressives can’t demonize people into liking them.

    I’d like to clarify some things in progressives’ minds about the election, too. For one, non-college educated whites were important to Trump winning, especially in places like Wisconsin and Michigan.

    But (little known fact?), did you know that a majority of college educated whites voted for Trump, too?

    “Trump won whites with a college degree 49% to 45%. In 2012, Romney won college whites by a somewhat wider margin in 2012 (56%-42%). Trump’s advantage among this group is the same as John McCain’s margin in 2008 (51%-47%).”


    1. Hillary might have won Pennsylvania with the support of college educated whites in suburban Pittsburgh.

      1. I meant Philadelphia.

        “Hillary might have won Pennsylvania with the support of college educated whites in suburban [Philadelphia]”.


    2. But, do they like cake?

  27. SNL is announcing to the world that they have no clue why Hillary lost, apparently.

    1. They are screaming from the mountain tops proclaiming their irrelevance.

      1. damn you

    2. They’re communicating to the world that they’re irrelevant.

      1. SNL has been displaying its irrelevance for 35 years, but I guess no one was paying attention.

    3. Of course they don’t know why she lost. They’re actor and writers whose sum of life experience has been living in a left-of-center cocoon. I’d no more expect them to know why Hilary Clinton lost than I would expect them to be able to price a foreign currency swap.

      What they’re signaling is that they’re reliable participants in pop culture goodthink and will celebrate whatever the popular progressive bromide of the day happens to be.

      1. Hey now. I remember all the way back to 2000 how balanced these people were. For every “Bush Eats Black Babies While Clubbing Baby Seals” they’d shoot right back with what a wooden personality Gore had. For every “Bush Snorts Mounds Of Coke While Raping Hispanic Domestic Help” there was Gore was too introverted because he was so smart he was solving four of humanity’s problems at once. Not only were they balanced, they showed just how broad the sweep of their understanding was. Accusing the popular/entertainment MSM of being biased only shows how biased YOU are and live in your own cocoon.

        1. You haven’t been watching the show lately then, since quite a few of their presidential skits specifically made fun of Clinton’s Tracy Flick-like obsession with being president, showed her as being overconfident about winning, etc. To the extent Trump looked worse in the same skits, let’s be blunt: Trump has a far more outrageous personality/mannerisms than Clinton, which makes him a lot easier to make fun of in a visual medium like television. A boring, wonkish person is a lot harder to caricaturize in a funny way.

  28. Didn’t I see somewhere (here?) that people were saying that if Jon Stewart was still on The Daily Show, Hillary would’ve won?

    Good grief.

    They are completely flummoxed by the distinction between causation and co-incidence. There are people out there who seem to be blaming the pollsters for not making people voter for Hillary.

  29. Who is this guy in Video #2? I like him. Even though I suspect I disagree with him on a lot of niggling policy issues.

    1. Holy fucking shit this guy didn’t hit a home run, he’s repeatedly cracking them over the fence, one…after… the other.

  30. In fact, they’re right about a lot of policy matters?that free trade is good, for one thing

    As Dr. Paul pointed out, that’s not what their “free trade” treaties deliver. What they do is micro-manage it.


    1. And since when are the Progs pro free trade? They all loved Sanders and he is more protectionist than Trump. Robby can’t help but give these idiots the benefit of the doubt.

    2. Free Trade deals for progressives are a means to impose environmental regulation and promote the cause of unions around the world.

      The Obama administration renegotiated both the South Korean and Colombian free trade deals so that they were supported by labor unions.

      “The [renegotiated] deal was supported by Ford Motor Company, as well as the United Auto Workers, both of which had previously opposed the agreement. Remarking on the UAW’s support, an Obama administration official was quoted as saying, “It has been a long time since a union supported a trade agreement” and thus the administration hopes for a “big, broad bipartisan vote” in the U.S. Congress in 2011.”

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ United_States?Colombia_Free_Trade_Agreement

  31. I read an article, well I couldn’t read all of it, that actually claimed that 60% of the country are hopelessly racist.

    Speaking of cause and effect- since a big chunk of that group voted for Obama (twice) that obviously means Obama turned them into racists. He created racism where none was before. Talk about change.

  32. “In fact, they’re right about a lot of policy matters?that free trade is good, for one thing. But they have utterly failed to explain why they’re right to a huge segment of the country that was put-off by outrage-of-the-day culture.”

    They don’t explain that because they know their own base would crucify them.

  33. The last thing PC liberals get is free trade. To many of them “freedoms” are goodies and handouts freely given to them by Big Daddy Gov.

    1. The last thing PC liberals get is free trade.

      Uh, yeah. Try and explain the concept that it is good to buy goods and services from a country that can produce them more cheaply to somebody who will literally spend twice as much money to buy something from a store that makes them feel good vs buying the exact same thing at Wal Mart. Why make sensible financial decisions when Wal Mart is icky? Accordingly, why buy something cheaply when you can pay twice as much to buy something made here? It just feels so much better.

      1. Isn’t “voting with your dollars” like a central tenant of libertarianism? That the market doesn’t need to be regulated because people won’t give business to immoral companies? When I chose not to shop at Wal-Mart (or Sam’s Club), that’s exactly what I’m doing.

        1. Your choices aren’t the problem. The problem arises when you start telling other people what choices they can and cannot make.

          Blocking a Walmart from being built is a different animal from choosing not to shop there.

          1. I still don’t see how opposing a Wal-Mart being built is at odds with libertarianism. A group of locals banding together to stand against a business’ actions – if the government isn’t allowed to reign in harmful business practices, this is the alternative.

            I’m normally extremely skeptical, even disgusted, by most acts of NIMBY-ism, but protesting against an business that hurts local economies is a good thing to block.

            1. In that case, how are you opposing the Wal-Mart being built other than with the point of a local government’s guns?

              1. It is possibly to protest without violence. If the heat gets high enough, business won’t bother.

            2. If everybody in your local community was opposed to shopping at Walmart, then it couldn’t “hurt [the] local economy” because no one would shop there.

              What you are talking about is a small but vocal group making economic choices for everyone else. “No, you can’t have affordable goods. You may not understand, but there are more important things at play than your well being!” You say, in a nicer house with fancier things than your neighbors have.

              That is not what libertarianism is about.

              1. Who said anything about small? A small group would probably fail. I’m saying every single person should have some kind of veto power of what happens in the community. But if a significant chunk of a local population said “No, go away WalMart,” and WalMart did, that would be a completely valid expression of will from the people, no?

                1. As I said, if that is the will of the people, then Walmart will go away, because it will fail to do enough business.

                  Why does the government have to intervene to enforce the alleged opinion of the community? Don’t like Walmart, don’t shop there. If enough people agree, then the opinion will be self-enforcing.

                  1. I have not once said that the government should stop Wal-Mart from building in a particular area. I was responding to the idea that it’s somehow idiotic for a community to rise up and protest an incoming Wal-Mart – that somehow, that is inherently “leftist” and only about making progressives feel good about themselves.

                    1. You two are talking past each other.

                      kbolino is talking about “blocking” a Walmart, mortiscrum about “opposing” a Walmart. Very, very different things from a libertarian POV. The former involves force, the latter persuasion.

        2. Sure, but so is the option of voting with your dollars. Restricting free trade, shutting down a Wal Mart, etc, are not libertarian.

  34. First off, “liberal” elites aren’t trying to make people less racist; they’re trying to substitute old racism for new racism; people who approve of calls for the extinction of white males or who support systematic and overt discrimination against certain races in education and employment decisions are not anti-racists; they are racists, and while some of the people they criticize are racists in the opposite direction, let’s face it: most of the people they criticize as being racist they are actually criticizing for being *non*-racist (e.g., Eric Holder condemning ‘colorblindness’).

    Long story short: when the people purporting to be the anti-racists are the most overtly and unabashedly racist people in the public sphere, they tend to not have a lot of credibility to the general public.

    Secondly, since when to ‘liberal’ elites support free trade? Conservative elites support free trade, but even Paul Krugman is now t best lukewarm to free trade. Much of the ‘liberal elite’ sympathized with Bernie precisely because of his protectionism, and they love Warren for the same reason. Don’t give credit where it isn’t due, Robby.

    1. “Don’t give credit where it isn’t due, Robby.”

      But if he didn’t do that, his articles wouldn’t be as fun!

    2. Where US/Canada trade is concerned, it’s complicated.


    3. Some college took down a plaque with a MLK quote because he explicitly promoted colorblindness.

      1. It turns out that wasn’t true.

  35. Want to defeat racism?

    Do what Branch Rickey did.

    Of course, he hired a black republican, so that might not count.

    1. How about judging people based on the content of their character instead of what victim group they belong too?

      1. You’re clearly suffering from a severe case of false consciousness.

      2. Or how well they turn a double play.

      3. having content in your character only comes from being privileged.

      4. Come one, everyone know “content of their character” is just a dog whistle for “pasty white hue.”

  36. To expand on what Gilmore and others have said, these “self-critical” analyses of the Left are often from Bernie supporters who think that the American people would have chosen an *avowed* socialist over a rich (if not uniformly successful) businessman.

    At the very least, the “avowed” part would stick in many Americans’ craw, even those who might perhaps be coaxed into supporting certain parts of socialism under a different label. There’s still a lot of voters who may have taken the New Deal/Great Society Kool-Aid but who also know about relatives, or people in their communities, who fought and sometimes died in wars against avowed socialist regimes.

    1. I know – “he’s a *democratic* socialist, you un-nuanced moron!”

      Problem is Bernie himself blurred the distinction by cozying up to the Soviets and Sandinistas.

      1. He likes bread lines. That makes him a fuckstick socialist.

      2. Hillary’s camp never attacked Bernie on his support of murderous and corrupt Latin American governments because the insult quite simply would not have resonated with that base and might have provoked infighting about the “good” we could learn from the Sandinistas. Openly debating socialism, rather than calling it “democratic” socialism or saying “We’re so behind the rest of the world!”, would undoubtedly have weakened the Dems before the general
        Then I feel like the RNC would have eviscerated Bernie’s socialism even worse. Bernie never faced enough scrutiny for anyone to really know how he would have done, so I’m really tired of this BS from my fellow millenials saying he could have easily won

    2. When up against Trump… it’s not crazy. Especially since Bernie would actually challenge Donnie for the white working class vote.

      1. Bernie would actually challenge Donnie for the white working class vote.


        Where’s the evidence of that?

        sure, there’s a fraction that will swallow it, but the vast majority of ‘working class’ people have a lower opinion of outright socialism than do right-wing rich-folk.

        And what good would that fraction be when he’d also lose most of the black vote as well?

        Bernie did well with primary voters because primary voters are a tiny slice of the electorate. The “head to head” polling stuff you read in the spring was meaningless garbage. He would have been slaughtered.

        1. Agreed. The Sanders voters screaming “I told you so” are probably the most annoying in the post-election pontificating. Reality check, he’d be competing with Trump’s core voting bloc much more directly than Clinton did, and he’d be starting from a place of historical non-support. Meanwhile, the groups that Clinton really needed to turn out to win, and didn’t, favored her heavily in the primary.

        2. The evidence is that Bernie talked a whole lot about “good jobs,” stopping companies from moving overseas, restricting immigration, etc. All that blue collar shit. I said he’d actually challenge Trump for that, instead of running totally on gender and race.

          I wonder how much of the black vote would have stayed home; I also wonder how many young voters would have gone to the polls for him.

          1. I wonder how much of the black vote would have stayed home;

            Wondering and $3.50 might get you a small soy Mochaccino .

            1. I think there is actually a case to be made that Bernie or someone like him might’ve wiped the floor with Trump *if* he weren’t a self-identified socialist. Paradoxically, among the wealthy professional leftists there may be a decent number of self-identified socialists who aren’t really socialists and don’t even know what it is, among the working classes, including on the right, there are a decent number of people who favor socialist policies even though they loathe the word socialism. Minimum wages, tariffs, price controls, salary caps for CEOs, etc. enjoy more popularity among rank and file conservatives and ‘moderates’ than among conservative elites. Bernie’s socialist style policies wouldn’t handicap his appeal to the conservative/populist working class types near as much as the S-word itself would.

      2. Related to Gilmore’s point, Sanders lacks the cultural markers and attitudes to have appeal across the “working class” (white or otherwise). He comes off as a mooch (because he is a mooch) and has a very “ivory tower” persona, despite the fact that he talks about the poor and the workers a lot.

    3. It’s funny how much stock democrats will put in democracy, while explaining how another outcome was really supposed to Haarlem.

      The best part of this week is the cognitive dissonance cluster bomb.

        1. I like how she added the extra “a” – because she’s racist and thinks some place in the Netherlands is better than a black neighborhood in the USA.

      1. If the US were a pure democracy, Hillary would have won.

    4. I’m not convinced Bernie would have won.

      Very easy to connect him to Venezuela and his commie past.

      At least, I hope so. Because the idea he could be president is TERRIFYING to steal a word from Robby.

      /runs fingers through hair.

      1. I wonder if Bernie would have inspired a lefty version of Egg McMuffin.

  37. “the less-educated white working class” – WTF?

    1. From the perspective of a media pollster it’s very easy to categorize voters. Blacks are a category, Hispanics are a category, Asians are a category and then you have two categories for whites; smart whites that vote Democrat and stupid whites that don’t. As a Democrat you own all the votes but the latter, which you must tirelessly degrade and demean.

      1. I assumed it meant “people too stupid to know that when we said ‘you should vote your own self-interest’ we didn’t mean you“.

  38. I just watched the SNL video. I don’t get it.

    1. That’s just because you’re not hip. I thought it was far out, man.

    2. Despite being a Montrealer French-Canadians are like ‘qui?’

    3. Well, you see, Jane is in fact an ignorant slut…

  39. Trump becoming president is terrifying,

    Somehow he’s bright enough to grasp that SNL’s moral-posturing is retarded, but not his own.

  40. But Trump’s win should give liberals pause about whether shouting racist! at the less-educated white working class is a tactically sound strategy for defeating racism.

    I don’t even know where to begin on that one. But what makes you think they’re interested in defeating racism rather than just attacking white people? What does “racism” even mean these days? And who the hell died and left them in charge of diagnosing and treating all the troubles in the world? How about Trump’s win giving them pause to wonder if maybe, just maybe, since so many people seem to believe otherwise, maybe they’re mistaken in their belief that they know everything? Can we just for once get a “well, I could be mistaken”?

    1. And who the hell died and left them in charge of diagnosing and treating all the troubles in the world?

      Classical liberals.

      Can we just for once get a “well, I could be mistaken”?

      Well to be fair, I didn’t think I was mistaken about my views on human nature, economics and politics when Obama handily won two elections. But given how their empirical wrongness is mirrored by the their stunning electoral wrongness and more importantly since they’re the moral relativists in this contest, they ought to be considering the possibility that they’ve made some mistakes.

  41. “That doesn’t mean politically-correct liberal elites are wrong about everything. In fact, they’re right about a lot of policy matters?that free trade is good, for one thing.”

    You mean 2,000 page “free trade” agreements, free trade not so much.

    1. 2,000 page “free trade” agreements negotiated in secret and kept hidden from public review afterwards

      1. Keeping in mind that which is not seen.

        You tax imported cash crops unfairly in your country and I tax imported steel products too heavily in mine. Let’s each only tax the other half as much and say we’re doing it for the little guy!

        It’s not like these ‘Free Trade’ agreements are physically making it easier/cheaper to traverse the oceans.

    2. Ask ’em if they’re in favor of me being able to trade an hour’s worth of labor for 5 bucks. Or a pint of Roundup for a battery-raised chicken.

    3. You mean 2,000 page “free trade” agreements, free trade not so much.

      And Robby’s big mistake here is referring to free trade policy, not free trade theory. I believe free trade theory is pretty darn sound. I think free trade policy has been a shitshow. The liberal elites are completely wrong on policy.

  42. I don’t get it.


  43. Too many liberals respond to such a contention with some version of, well, what’s wrong with trying to make people less racist? Nothing, of course. On the contrary: promoting non-racism is a good thing. But Trump’s win should give liberals pause about whether shouting racist! at the less-educated white working class is a tactically sound strategy for defeating racism.


    Just fucking No.

    How about maybe they aren’t racist in the first place? How about that?

    How about maybe the racists are the people who endlessly harp on race–who treat whole races and ethnicities as if they’re morons that can’t do anything right unless they’ve got a white liberals help?

    How about that?

    Why do we just accept so many of their premises?

    And it’s bad–so bad that people are being told that they can’t discuss the election because it might upset people. It might upset people? What the hell?

    Trump won–and people are STILL not admitting they voted for him. Why? Because they could lose their jobs.

    1. The used to be hard working, union loving, salt-of-the-earth types when they voted Democrat.

      When they vote for Trump they are uneducated, backward, unabashed racists.

  44. I just see that Jonathan Pie as another leftist blowhard who thinks he’s above it all. I can tell in six minutes that he wants to control all aspects of my life and views Marxism as a good end. Anyone who drools over Bernie Sanders is not your friend.

    1. Yes, he probably disagrees with a lot, if not nearly everything about libertarianism. But if you listen to what he was actually saying, he rails against the reactionary principles that have consumed the left, gives political correctness an overhand right, and defends the people who voted for Trump (or Brexit) as not being racist– and criticizes the left’s smug use of social networking as stupid an ineffective.

      I have no doubt I disagree with him on a lot of issues, but at least he wants to debate, express and exchange ideas- which as he said “is a lost art” with the left.

  45. BTW, in case your thirst for progtears STILL hasn’t been sated, I give you Margaret Sullivan at WaPo: http://tinyurl.com/zg38dfz .

    The First Amendment is in grave danger because the woman who declared definitively that she would do everything in her power to overturn Citizens United lost an election. Oh, and she consoles herself with a quote from Gramsci. No, really, she does.

    1. Yet another positive development of a Trump victory, the press has discovered this First Amendment thingy and wow, it sure is important and stuff.

      Everything we have ? everything that makes us unlike any other nation ? flows from those words and the protections they offer for free expression.

      First Amendment rights are not just for journalists but for everyone ? they are so core to our democracy, so much a part of everyday America, that we take them for granted.

      Trump, making Journalism great again since 5 minutes ago.

    2. I love when they do shit like that. Then they act all indignant when you call them out for the commies they really are.

      Out with it. Trump is in power now. Be honest. You don’t get to hide behind all this non-commie stuff!

  46. I saw a video this weekend that made me throw up in my mouth that I think fits right in with this article. The video was of a mother packing the suitcase and kicking her 5(ish) year old out of the house for “voting” for Trump. Oh, how cute. NOT. To me, it shows exactly what is wrong (as depicted in this article). A mother would be willing to abandon/disown their own child for having a different political view. If a mother would do that, how do we expect her to be able to interact and have intelligent discourse with a stranger that holds different views from her.

    1. What on earth, in the last 20 years, makes you think we’re heading toward intelligent discourse?

  47. That doesn’t mean politically-correct liberal elites are wrong about everything. In fact, they’re right about a lot of policy matters?that free trade is good

    When have any politically correct liberal elites ever argued that “free trade is good”? Clinton was no more free trade than Trump, and for that matter neither was Sanders. So where are all these politically correct liberal elites that are in favor of free trade?

    1. Well, they used to pay it lip service, at least. Of course, their version of free trade comes with lots of extra rules and paperwork.

  48. RE: SNL Hillary Clinton Singing ‘Hallelujah,’ Or How Political Correctness Gave Us Trump
    ‘It’s almost as if the political acumen of Beyonce and Jay-Z counts for nothing!’

    Political correctness is the proper approach for State censorship.
    How else are the ruling elitist turds going to eliminate free speech in this country?

    1. Because they know what is best, and it’s for your own good so don’t question it hateful, racist, xeno/homo/isalmo/pick your righteous victim phobe!

  49. Leftist overreach on PC might very well have played a part in this election.

    If that’s the case, it is also true that conservatives have entirely too much time on their hands if their biggest problem in life is a Youtube video or Drudge headline that rubbed them the wrong way. Obama must have made them so incredibly economically secure that they actually have time to get upset over things that can’t possibly harm them beyond mild annoyance.

    But, you can vote for whatever reason you want, I suppose.

    1. Yeah, keep ignorning the midwest and coal country. It’s working out so well for you this far.

      1. ^this

      2. What government solution do you propose to help out people who decided to work in dying industries?

        1. Missing the point, also a proven strategy.

          1. I don’t recall either party offering a government solution to coal country people. There was lip service from Democrats and white supremacy from Republicans.

            (God forbid anyone tell them to pull themselves up from their bootstraps.)

            This being the case, my theory is that the only way for Democrats to appeal to the so-called white working class is to openly ditch their efforts on behalf of minorities, since apparently the biggest grievance of the former is that the latter are getting too much attention. And I just don’t think that would be strategically sound, since they’d vote Republican anyway.

            But do get back to me when you have a plan for welfare for coal people.

            1. While I’m sure that army of strawmen and false dichotomies would impress your echo chamber, it has nothing to do with the issues at play in recent election.

              Policy moves like blocking the Keystone pipeline or making coal power more expensive through emissions regulations have a greater impact than whatever racial grievance mongering you think is at play.

              But please, do keep telling yourself that white supremacy is what this is all about. I’d like to see the Democratic Party, which has strayed so far from the government-skeptical populism of men like Jackson and Garfield, relegated to the dustbin of history.

              1. So false promises to a dying industry from Republicans impresses you more?

                I can’t help but wonder if there might be a racial component considering “white working class” people tend to balk at welfare when they perceive it directed toward people who don’t look like them.

                Coal was dying anyway but it’s a good thing if its death is hastened by environmental regulation. It’s a triumph of policy over pandering if we didn’t send welfare money their way in order to secure their votes, don’t you think?

                Of course I’m all for trying out some government investment to make these areas of the country more economically prosperous. You’re the ones who insist on telling the down-on-their-luck that life ain’t fair.

                1. It isn’t. That’s just life.

                  1. As in, sorry you chose to work in a dying industry… but you also voted against social safety net programs, so… sorry.

                    1. No. Just life. It isn’t fair.

                      No amount of retarded progressive false narratives can ever change this fact.

                      I respect coal miners much more than I do people living off the climate change subsidy dole. I feel for their plight but coal need not be a dying industry. That’s the evil environmental movement (and that cunt Hillary) who purposely looked to destroy it permanently.

                    2. But why do the coal industry and coal customers get to pollute my air without paying to clean it up?

                      All that’s being talked about when we talk about coal country is what form of welfare we think they should get.

                      I say life isn’t fair. Sorry you were born in West Virginia. Try voting a different way for a change and see what happens.

                    3. West Viriginia was a Democrat stronghold up until very recently. It’s laughable to suggest their problems came from voting against Democrats.

                      Do you have any knowledge of actual politics, or is it all just spoon-fed to you by other idiots?

                    4. The midwest and coal country isn’t suffering from a lack of social safety net programs. They’re suffering from a lack of jobs and economic prospects. A welfare check and a paycheck are not the same thing, your elitist condescension notwithstanding.

                      You kill their jobs and dance on their graves. The loss was well deserved, but obviously you are not interested in learning from the experience.

                    5. I don’t expect Tony to understand that going on welfare is not dignity. These people have pride and want to live a life of purpose I reckon.

                      Only progressives think they should just shut up and take their welfare and they’d better appreciate it.

                    6. Let us recall that Tony said libertarians are wrong because people don’t vote for us or our policies. That we are arrogant, disconnected, unrepresentative, sexist, racist, etc.

                      What happens when people don’t vote for Tony’s party and policies? He slings insults, condescends to them, and says they deserve everything that happens to them, even if his own party and policies were part of the cause.

                      This would be the punchline to a bad joke in a sane world.

                    7. You’re missing my point that you are calling for politicians to offer welfare to white West Virginians–welfare in the form of a jobs program. I’m all for that, and Democrats proposed it.

                      You can blame progressive government policy for all the economic woes of the region, but that’s awfully convenient, and there’s government policy everywhere. Shit happens. California seems to make a go of things (talk about progressive policy).

                      Furthermore like every dough-faced pundit in the country you’re also arguing that the key to winning is to pander especially to these people. Which might very well be true, but you’d probably call it ugly race baiting if someone suggested pandering to anyone but white country people.

                      Let’s not forget that there was practically no real policy discussion in this election. Trump put his cards on the table, and anyone who voted for him did so for reasons that have nothing to do with policy.

                    8. No, you are missing the point. I call for nothing of the sort.

                      People voted. Your ideas were rejected. Own up to it.

                    9. Oh I blame progressivism for a whole lot of evils it has hurled upon North America.

                      That shit going down at UofV about Jefferson is just another example upon numerous examples of the bankrupted intellectual cess pool of shit known as progressivism.

                    10. I’m willing to get on board with the idea that overreaching progressives with their taking offense at everything they can find is a political sinkhole for them.

                      I reserve the right to point out that people whining about such anecdotes are actually being even more hypersensitive, but that’s beside the point when it comes down to getting votes.

                      And also that when you’re a party whose economic philosophy is a failure and you’ve stopped having real policy ideas altogether, you have a lot of time on your hands to drum up culture-war outrage.

                      But it’s hard to argue that progressivism is responsible for West Virginia, where no progressives hold any power, while all the economically successful states are run by progressives (or are sitting on oil).

                    11. West Virginia, where no progressives hold any power

                      … as of what, four years ago?

                      Right, West Virginia was the light of the country until those stupid redneck inbreds kicked all the smart people out.

                      Again, please do keep telling yourself this. I’m absolutely tickled that this bullshit narrative is becoming not only what high-status idiots tell themselves, but now are saying in public, too.

                    12. I’m the one making an economic argument while you started by blaming progressive policies. All those burdensome progressive laws in the South and Midwest. No doubt you’d attribute the success of New York and California to something in an altogether different category, something that happened despite the most progressive policies in the country.

                      More politicians should have been attuned to the fact that if your region relies on coal and coal alone, it’s obviously not diversified enough. But instead we got their own politicians sticking their heads in the sand and lobbying for as much welfare for coal as they could get, including allowances to pollute without having to pay for the mess they cause.

                    13. How many people has the EPA poisoned lately? Where is the accountability for that? Oh, right, you don’t give a fuck about pollution.

                      And it’s still entirely beside the point, because some people would rather have some pollution and jobs than do what know-it-all liberals hundreds or thousands of miles away say is best for them.

                      Wake up and smell the sulfur.

                    14. How can they be more hyper-sensitive? Methinks stuff like this deserve the full scorn it deserves. And how is it an anecdote when it’s happening across North America?

                    15. The precious snowflakes are asking for safe spaces from bigotry. The conservatives are asking for safe spaces from the people asking for safe spaces.

                      There’s a sort of deep-rooted genderedness to it all. Conservative pants-wetting is perceived as more macho and acceptable, even if it is just as pathetic.

                    16. safe spaces from bigotry

                      College, well known bastion of bigotry…

    2. Yeah, I mean, it’s not like the government is threatening to prosecute wrongthinkers (including the Reason foundation) on racketeering charges, or prosecute people for using the wrong non-binary gender pronouns or anything. Nor like employers and educational institutions systematically discriminate against certain groups in the name of ‘affirmative action’ including, ironically groups that are under-represented (e.g., men in undergraduate programs). It’s not like the media didn’t foment race hatred and rioting by convincing Americans that police were wantonly murdering black people en masse when in fact all statistics in evidence (including a Harvard study by a progressive black academic) have found that black people are not disproportionately likely to be killed by police when one accounts for disproportionate rates of criminality, and it’s not like the attorney general himself condemned non-racism (‘colorblindness’) in favor “reverse” racism.

      None of that happened. It’s all about some youtube video. You stick to that line of thinking and you may just be able to salvage your insipid opinions within the confines your head just yet.

  50. Hey Robbie.

    Exactly which member of the politically correct liberal elite supported free trade in this recent election?

    I seem to recall both Clinton and Sanders falling over themselves to condemn NAFTA, and Clinton abandoning support for a free trade deal that she herself helped negotiate.

    And how many colleges and universities have hosted “safe spaces” to protect students from the trauma of tariffs and the microaggression of Europe’s Common Agricultural Policy?

    1. Came here to post this. Since when have SJWs or the Progs been in favor of free trade?

      1. Robby basically seems to be engaged in a never ending game of that “I say something nice about you then yous say something nice about me” game for troubled relationships. Only he basically has to make up nice stuff to say about progs and they never have anything nice to say about him. I’m starting to think the Left’s relationship with Robby is an abusive one, emotionally at least, maybe physically too. Ann Merlan didn’t spank you, Robby, did she? You can tell us anything, just know that.

  51. My favorite trump comment from the memez land on the intertubez:

    “Liberals are acting like Trump is going to ban women from getting education, murder and torture political enemies, execute gay people, and plunge us back in to the middle ages. Almost like he’s a Muslim or something.”

    1. “At least we’re not as bad as ISIS.”

      –Trump on gays

      1. Trump is better on gays than Obama was when he came into office.

  52. Free trade is great when booth side get treated equally and our government has handed its ass to every country and screwed its own citizens

  53. With regard to the second video, he’s correct, up to a point. But what he fails to understand that everything he apparently adores about the left usually has to be implemented by Force. The left has tried to persuade in the past, but the ensuing sacrifices weren’t at the proper pace or the proper type (probably came with conditions). And so they had to simply default to using highly imperfect and blunt means of Force to get their way. And the right fights back, and the race for the controlling of Force ratchets up and up. Neither side is in this to DISCUSS anymore. And so long as he endorses the defaulting to government as providing solutions by attacking peaceful and productive people, then he’s not really learned much at all. If he first said that we need to take the piss out of the collective planning and control as we know it, and THEN work on improving debate skills instead of the inexact science of government control, then I might listen. In short, would he have ranted this way when Hillary WON, everything else being equal? No, he’s mad because the use of Force is now in the “wrong hands”. That is the unforgivable crime.

    Put another way, Goebbels was foaming at the mouth that the Strassers were being too timid in wresting complete party control from Hitler. Then he went in person and fell in love and was a rabid devotee to Hitler from then on. An enemy of an enemy is not a friend, just might be the internals of internecine squabbles of fascists.

  54. Regarding Hillary Clinton as a hero tells me horrible things about that person’s character. They’re either hopelessly naive or deeply flawed, which is a nice way of saying evil, cynical narcissists.

    1. Leftists tend to be Goffmanists. The role matters, not the person. Hillary’s role was the First Woman President, Savior of the Children, Bringer of Peace, Champion of the Oppressed. As a person she was qualified to be none of those things, but the narrative was rewritten. Progs are morning the saint that never existed but that they would have made her into if she’d won

  55. Egrigious misuse of the most overrated Leonard Cohen song. The right one for Hillary would probably be “the future” or “democracy”, and it shouldn’t be as an afterthought to failing at being funny. He was writing psalms; dragging them down in the mud for Hilary’s sake? Problematic.

  56. It reminds me of when Mother Teresa died, Princess Di died right afterward and MT got co-opted by comparisons to Lady Di (or vice-versa)

  57. Gotta love how even the people that voted for Trump feel the need to find someone to blame for him.

  58. Credit where credit’s due: Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party “gave” us Trump.

  59. “Terrifying”? How much of a pussy are you? I am no Trump supporter, but I sure as hell am not terrified.

  60. until I looked at the paycheck saying $4730 , I did not believe that…my… brother woz like actualy bringing in money part time from there computar. . there friend brother started doing this for less than 7 months and resently paid for the morgage on there home and bought a new Cadillac …….


  61. until I looked at the paycheck saying $4730 , I did not believe that…my… brother woz like actualy bringing in money part time from there computar. . there friend brother started doing this for less than 7 months and resently paid for the morgage on there home and bought a new Cadillac …….


  62. until I looked at the paycheck saying $4730 , I did not believe that…my… brother woz like actualy bringing in money part time from there computar. . there friend brother started doing this for less than 7 months and resently paid for the morgage on there home and bought a new Cadillac …….


  63. until I looked at the paycheck saying $4730 , I did not believe that…my… brother woz like actualy bringing in money part time from there computar. . there friend brother started doing this for less than 7 months and resently paid for the morgage on there home and bought a new Cadillac …….

    >>>>>>>>> http://www.centerpay70.com

  64. It is amazing that “Jonathan Pie” got so much dead on when it comes to the left marginalizing, insulting, shutting down, )insulting, race baiting and ignoring their opponents. How could he (the writers” so clearly understand that problem and yet not see that the reason the left has had to resort to such tactics is that the facts are almost always against them and it is the only option they have when it comes to winning?!

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