Maine's Ranked-Choice Initiative's Fate in Hands of Undecided Voters
Today in votes that are actually about future votes


When 20 percent of the voters are undecided about your ballot initiative less than two weeks before the vote, definitely be concerned.
That's what the proponents of Maine's Question 5, which institutes "ranked-choice" voting in statewide and lawmaker elections there, are facing. The most recent poll from the University of New Hampshire Survey Center shows a yes vote ahead at 49 percent. That sounds very good, at first. The problem, though, is that a full 20 percent of polled voters say they're undecided. Compare that to Maine's marijuana legalization ballot initiative, where only nine percent of voters are undecided (and that one may still be a nailbiter).
It's certainly a complex, complicated proposal for voters to consider. Ranked-choice voting asks voters to order their candidates by preference, not just pick a single vote. Who is your first choice? Who is your second choice? And so on, in races where there are more than two candidates. In order to win a ranked choice race, the top candidate must earn a majority of the votes cast. If he or she only has a plurality in the first round, the candidate with the least amount of votes is tossed from the race. The ballots are then counted again, but in situations where voters selected the least popular candidate as their first choice, their second choice is now counted. This all goes on until a candidate gets a majority of the vote, which may not actually be the same person who won the first round.
A handful of cities in the U.S. use ranked choice, but no states, so Maine would be treading new ground. As should be obvious, this ranked-choice system has the potential to benefit both third-party candidates and those who are seen as more "moderate" (for whatever that definition means in the eyes of voters). It should not come as a surprise then to see those who feel left out of the current political environment in Maine supporting it and those who have benefited from the status quo opposing it. Maine Gov. Paul LePage (he with the binder full of drug dealers) is opposed and argues it may be unconstitutional. The state's constitution currently calls for a plurality to be declare the winner. LePage himself did not get a majority vote.
Ranked choice voting itself is far from perfect—one possibly bad outcome is that the ultimate winner himself didn't actually get a majority of votes cast because voters are under no obligation to rank all choices. So the ballot of a voter who selected only a candidate that performed poorly will end up getting tossed. And as some citizens who live in the cities that have ranked-choice local votes can tell you, it's only as good as the candidates. Nevertheless, it's a chance for voters to assert a little more control over their choices. If it wins, it will be interesting to see if it actually improves voter turnout in that state.
I asked Kyle Bailey, campaign manager for the Committee for Ranked Choice Voting, if he was concerned about the extremely high undecided numbers in the last poll. Bailey responded (via email) that the poll was taken only a couple of days after the proponents had started their ad blitz. They've been running television ads for the past three weeks. Bailey also noted that the poll didn't indicate how the undecided voters were currently leaning.
I'll also be keeping an eye on California's race for U.S. Senate to see the ultimate example of how different types of vote systems can go wrong. California voters have been left with two Democrats (and nobody else) to choose from, Attorney General Kamala Harris and Rep. Loretta Sanchez. That's due to California's top-two primary system, enacted (by voters) a few years ago. This is the first Senate race where we've seen it come into play. California has an open primary where voters can choose from a whole slate of Democrats, Republicans, and even third-party possibilities like Libertarians and others. But only the top two choices get on the fall ballot, no matter which party they're from. This means that really the primary vote is actually more important than the November vote. And that's a problem, because primary vote turnout is much lower. There's been reporting that some are saying they're less inclined to actually vote for either candidate in this race. I'll be keeping an eye out to see whether there's a significant difference in the number of Californians who vote for president but not for a senator (full disclosure: that's exactly what I did).
South Dakota, by the way, is considering implementing a top-two election system that would also be non-partisan, stripping party affiliations off the ballot. Such a system has managed to get support even from some independent politicians, who seem to think that this will increase their chances. Given that South Dakota has a much smaller population than California, I imagine it's possible. But South Dakotans should look at California's Senate race right now and see if that's truly what they want.
In addition, there's a referendum before South Dakotans to decide whether to keep Senate Bill 69. This is a law reforming some election rules in the state. One of the rules this law implements is that a person who is a registered member of a political party may not sign a nominating petition for an independent candidate. That rule strikes me as wholly unconstitutional, but I will admit to not being terribly familiar with court precedents on the intersection of free speech and voting rights and election petition procedures. Voting no would strike the law down.
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Are they using ranked-choice voting to determine how to count the votes on ranked-choice voting? It doesn't matter what method you use, there's a way of reaching a paradoxical conclusion.
Of course, Arrow wins out. But IRV is still better than plurality.
I suppose IRV would have given us a second term of Bush I instead of Clinton which would have prevented us from ever seeing Hillary as the party nominee in 2016.
I'm in.
Not sure, most polling suggests Perot was taking from both evenly. It would have been closer though.
It would be messy. You would apply IRV at each state to determine who carries the delegation of Electors. The national polls results would not come into play.
Besides, don't fuck up my fantasy. I need something to get through the rest of the day 😉
Scotch is working for me.
That reminds me, I have to pick up another 1750 of vodka on the way home.
Thanks for the link.
In addition, there's a referendum before South Dakotans to decide whether to keep Senate Bill 69.
How the shit do you campaign on this without breaking out in laughter?
I probably have an old VHS copy of SB69 sitting around somewhere.
First choice: none of the above.
Second choice: Armageddon.
This is on the ballot only because Dems are angry because they think 3rd party independents cost them the past 2 gubernatorial elections.
I voted against it because making government more complicated is never a good idea.
(on the ballot here in Maine, that is)
Anything that keeps low-information voters away from the polls is a good thing.
BTW, Scott, I never vote for the candidates on the ballot in our judicial elections, so I cast a write-in vote for you and Robby Soave for State Supreme Court (this being NY, it's not the highest court). So if you wake up tomorrow and find you've been elected to the NY Supreme Court, I apologize.
So does anyone actually think that changing election rules to one of these schemes will in any way move towards a system of less government interference in our lives? This is like arguing what color rope the noose should be made out of it, before being hanged.
It makes sure the rope comes from one manufacturer, and one manufacturer only.
And doesn't cause any rope burns either! Because that is cruel and unusual!
No, but it does mean, theoretically, I wider variety of choices. It totally ends the "waste your vote" argument, allowing for 3rd parties to compete on the merits.
I expect it makes third parties more irrelevant. They cannot even play spoiler or deny a major party winner a "mandate".
I don't think that's the effect in Australia and Ireland, which both use forms of ranked-choice/instant runoff voting.
You can, if you choose to only vote minor party it's an even bigger fuck you.
In and of itself? No. But the two party system seems to be baked into the way our government is set up. Changing these types of rules may allow 3rd parties to have more influence. If one of those parties is friendlier towards liberty then it's a good thing. If none of them are, then no amount of institutional rules or roadblocks will prevent the expansion of government power.
It wouldn't usher in libertopia, but it would mean that politicians would have to convince voters to vote for them, rather than against their opponent. Turd Sandwich vs. Giant Douche doesn't work when you have 4 candidates.
I voted yes on question 5, no on question 3, and yes on marijuana legalization. I do live in Maine.
My reasoning is that run off gives the politicians a better idea on how the electorate feels about the issues.
Any feelings about the Black Birch? My friend says it's the shit but I haven't been there yet.
Brick Chicken, and good craft beer, also they keep clean draft lines. =)
You know who else had clean draft lines?
Ted Thompson?
Thanks for the tip, and good to know about the beer lines. A friend of mine swears he always gets sick off old lines and the bottom of the keg. Whatever. I've never been sick off draft beer, but knowing about the potential of lines/equipment possibly being filthy/nasty is another matter. I'm very skeptical of getting espressos off restaurants unless I know they do regular backflush and other cleaning maintenance on their machines. Like more than once a year.
Also, as far as other restaurants in that area are concerned, I *really* wanted to like Anju and can tell that their pork broth is cared for, just that the sodium and seasoning balance was low and I didn't care for it, and oddly I didn't think the umami had enough punch either. I'd rather have ramen at most Japanese-owned chain restaurants in Asia; the pork soup base is generally better, maybe because they use MSG and MSG is great. Maybe my expectation was too high. I noticed a lot of their foofy shit is overpriced, like the steamed buns (I'm pretty sure they're just these) are pre-prep, which is fine, but I'd rather stay home and cook that myself.
"LePage himself did not get a majority vote."
Surprise, surprise.
He was a rank enough choice.
+1 pregnant white girl
Ha ha.
A system which would have (probably) rejected LePage has at least something going for it.
I can't imagine a majority of voters, even in Stephen King country, preferring LePage to all rivals, especially if they can vote in ranked order for all the non-LePage candidates.
Eddie the only people who vote against LePage live in Kittery, or maybe Portland, and do not shop at the The Kittery Trading Post. =D
I'm just going by what the article said - he only got a plurality.
The benefit of the California system is that a moderate democrat is more likely to win.
In the old system, a radical democrat wins the primary because of primary voters and then wins the general because democrat.
I suppose the counter argument is that a radical dem is the best scenario for a republican win.
That's how I figure it. The old system would have one extreme Dem, one extreme (for whatever that means in CA) GOP, etc for each party, with the Dem pretty much guaranteed to win. It allowed more protest votes, but that's all they were. This way at least gives voters a practical chance to knock out the extremes.
Libertariansm is considered by most to be on the extremes.
I am under no illusions that run off voting is any better than first past the poll at getting more Libertarians elected. However it may be a good tool to let politicians kow about Libertarian positions among the population.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfjsoTT7AXM
It seems like a better system to me. I also like including "None of the Above"
"None of the Above" FTW!
I wrote it in.
Futile gesture, really. But what the hey.
The more I think of it, the more I think we should have cast our write-in votes for Agile Cyborg.
Isn't he Almanian's pick for Secretary of State?
Nope, Chief of Staff. Shelob is tapped to be Almanian's SoS, because because webspinning females have proven so effective at avoiding conflict.
I imagine our situation would be much better if "None of the above" was a choice, and if no one did well enough the office went unfilled.
Imagine, a year without a President!!!
I just came here to find out how Ken Schultz feels about Hillary disregarding rule of law and getting special treatment from the FBI.
Anyone know?
He's been very quiet about Hillary Clinton getting special treatment from the FBI and accepting money from foreign governments while in office.
Someone should ask him why he's been so quiet about Hillary Clinton getting special treatment from the FBI and accepting money from foreign governments while in office.
Is it because he is willing to accept or even supports Hillary Clinton getting special treatment from the FBI and accepting money from foreign governments while in office?
Or is it because he doesn't think Hillary Clinton getting special treatment from the FBI and accepting money from foreign governments while in office is an issue worthy of his comment?
What the hell is going on?!!
We merely want to know where Ken stands on this vital issue. That's all.
Yes. I probably didn't make that clear earlier.
Then you should write six words, when only one will do. Ken does have an unusual admiration for James Fenimore Cooper's style, no?
Unlike, as Paul. had noted, the terse style of SIV, for example, has been ambiguous at best.
All I want to know is where SIV stands on the Johnson question.
IIRC: Would.
Ken thinks Hillary is a corrupt cunt, Paul.
Paul?
Oh. Never mind.
I like to keep the personal separate from the public. If you know what I mean.
I am blind to parenthesis.
(or am I?)
Just in one eye, since you see only one parenthesis, as opposed to two parentheses.-)
CURSES.
Grammar pwned.
Hillary is a corrupt cunt, while Paul is just a regular ol' everyday cunt.
Honestly I of like mind to Ken on this. Run me out on a rail if you want. =D
For the record, I think her unrepentant influence peddling to anyone renders her unfit for office.
Agreed. =D
Nah, she is the most qualified person in the history of time and space. I know because it says so in the Huffington Post.
And facebook! And Twitter! And 99 year old "smart women" on NPR!
That's fine if YOU think that, tarran, but what does Ken think?
I laughed.
Yeah, yeah. Give Ken some grief. He is not wrong though and the more he says it the better. Hillary belongs in prison.
I'm not convinced she should be in prison. Lay it out for me.
i think the simple case is "equality under the law"
many people have been prosecuted and convicted of mishandling intelligence via the "gross negligence" standard, and gone to jail for it.
What Hillary did vastly exceeded the negligence standard and was designed from the start to evade federal security & transparency requirements. the charges she should have faced should have been comprehensive of the entire scheme she tried to get away with - not merely focused on any single isolated example of compromised intel.
When you then throw "destruction of evidence under subpoena" during the investigation of the above on top of the original-wrongdoing, you're easily into Orange Jumpsuit territory.
Everything above here is substantially documented and doesn't require any particular stretch of the imagination.
You don't even need to get into the issues of 'influence peddling' via Clinton Foundation, or using the office of state for personal gain, etc. Those things occupy an entirely secondary category... one which is probably going to be the subject of lots of "new" scandals in the coming year or so, whether she wins or not.
I think the influence peddling almost certainly happened, but I can't imagine how difficult that would be to prove in court. So many moving parts that need to be scrutinized.
What is the penalty for "destruction of evidence under subpoena" precisely? Because we do know for a fact she did that, right?
The problem is that most of the evidence is circumstantial (at least that I have seen). That's just not going to cut it given who she is and how much people are willing to make excuses for her.
Zactly.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1519
18 U.S. Code ? 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy
Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under title 11, or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.
(Added Pub. L. 107?204, title VIII, ??802(a), July 30, 2002, 116 Stat. 800.)
A fine or 20 years seems like a wide range to a layperson such as myself. Where would this fall?
Depends on whether evidence destruction was seen as being incidental, intentional, and what the crime being evaded was.
The reason for the wide latitude is to give prosecutors the leverage needed to prevent evidence destruction. Because usually the guideline is that the punishment pursued for evidence-destruction is worse than the crime you're trying to hide.
So take whatever the worst "mishandling of classified intel" penalties there are, and tack a few years onto those.
with the intent
No reasonable prosecutor would presume to know what she intended.
This outlines exactly when orders to destroy documents were made, and when that destruction actually happened.
the most important stuff happened when ALL records on the server (*not just benghazi) were subpoenaed, and then the IT staff rushed to purge things which Mills had previously requested be destroyed. (*Sometime between March 25 and March 31 2015)
Just like a thorough review of the 650K emails on Weiner's laptop is beside the point. The fact that one official State Department email is on Weiner's laptop is criminal wrongdoing by itself.
Who's Ken Schultz?
He's the guy behind the guy, behind a wall of text that liberally features the word "cunt."
Alongside the coprophelia pasted in the margins.
I think it's the jism keeping it stuck to the pages....
Creator of beloved comic, Peanuts.
Like i said.
As.
Who cares all that matters is whether Cali legalizes cannabis.
And then taxes the hell out of it, defeating the entire purpose.
yeah but then the progs will have BAD people in prison.
Going to jail because you smoked some weed - that's bad
Going to jail because you didn't follow government taxes and regulations on weed - that's good!
A Trips mention in the alt text? Scaklord's all about the game.
D-generation alt text?
Slackensniffle is crotch chopping your way even as we speak, Monte Crusto...X
I'm glad someone appreciated that reference, Groovy. You just hopped into my top ten favorite commenters list.
Zeb, you didn't make the cut.
Brutal. Savage. Rekt.
Oh, Redeye...
Pls don't disabuse me sir, I want to believe I added that clip to your (awe-inspiring) arsenal.
You know who else didn't make the cut?
A mohel undergoing a crisis of faith?
A beautician with carpal tunnel syndrome?
The cast of Nip/Tuck?
Rapunzel?
Michael Sam?
well played*
(or, in his case, not so much)
Michael Palin?
Megan Fox?
CNN?
South Park?
I say we vote in a dynasty to rule as absolute monarchs with the caveat that we can publicly execute the king and his family if he raises taxes above 3%.
You know there was this old Conan the Barbarian comic where there was a King that always had to make two choices on everything. If he made the wrong choice about what to eat, what door to enter/leave ect. he would be killed somehow.
Not to downplay your idea, but I find this appealing. =D
that rule always exists. It just takes enough people to enforce it is all.
I'm using it now and it's awesome! I've signed up for my account and have been bringing in fat paychecks. For real, my first week I made $305 and the second week I doubled it and then it kind a snowballed to $120 a day! just follow the course.. they will help you out.........
................>>>>> http://www.NetNote20.Com
While I appreciate the modesty of your numbers, $120 a day is $15 an hour, which presumably I should be able to get doing any number of jobs, with only a high school diploma. So...
1st - Johnson
2nd - Trump
3rd - McMuffin
4th - Stein
5th - FYTW
But I could only vote for one so I chose the Donald.
What a sad tableau.
My thoughts and prayers are with us all.
How about a system where no one wins.
We have a system where Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump wins and everybody else in the country loses. Is that close enough?
Damn. I was too slow.
We already have that.
*rimshot*
The most recent post on Hit'n'Run is almost three hours old? I know it's election day, but come on. It's gotten so that Tony's dead-thread-fucking has almost caught up.
They're giving us a breather before the drunken thousand-comment post that's coming this evening.
I'm sure I'm behind on this, but: Jurors Award $3 Million In Damages In Defamation Suit Against Rolling Stone
Prediction: Erdely's comeback tour begins in the middle of next year.
How much do the frat brothers get?
Their suit is next. They are asking for $25M.
That seems like a substantial amount.
I was a Phi Psi can we could barely afford good beer.
Not after the next round of qualitative easing after Hillary is inaugurated.
I wonder how many loaves of bread I'll be able to buy with my retirement savings.
One and a half.
She has a cushy teaching gig lined up at Columbia Journalism School.
Press secretary for President Clinton?
Three hours without a post? Is everyone at the Reason offices too busy pre-gaming for the election night returns?
They are harvesting PM Links. Top links, best you've ever seen. And the alt-text is gonna be yuuuuge!
Somehow I have a feeling Fruit Sushi is on lynx duty today.
It's amazing, you can grab those links by the f*king pussy and they just let you because you've got the hair.
Best part? He'll make Vox pay for them!
My thoughts are that everyone is resting up since they're all going to be expected to stay up till the wee hours of the morning posting stories about election results reactions, implications, etc.
They should do a youtube channel of "Election Reactions" filming people seeing the election results.
They could just repost a bunch of these.
Good timing!
Nevada judge denies Trump request to separate early voting ballots
Veep was a documentary.
So what ever happened with Trump's secret server for communicating with Vladimir Putin?
I have a vague memory of people being very-excited that the "proof" of the Trump/Putin nexus had finally been uncovered. But then crickets.
Wasn't it debunked immediately?
I talso seemed to presuppose that Trump is capable of an unlikely sort of cleverness.
Is there no post editing?
*it also
Its still on the front of Slate's Politics page
If it were 'debunked', would there be a "Never Mind!"-update note somewhere?
Oh they have a follow-up story
Funny, tho... that the OG story is still featured prominently on their site, while this Not-Really-A-Retraction-Thing is hidden via link at the bottom of that.
He wiped it with a cloth.
I get so frustrated that we don't have Ranked choice an option. I made the white board annimation video below trying to illustrate how a single vote corners third party voters into a difficult choice of:
a) Vote for a lesser evil candidate they don't like
b) Vote third party which helps the candidate the LEAST prefer.
White Board video:
https://youtu.be/5DiEf4ZZqBw