"You Libertarians Sure Are a Contentious People." "You've Just Made an Enemy for Life!"

More truth than any person or movement should ever face.

So this showed up in my Twitter feed from Roaming Millennial and seemed to speak a deep truth, at least at 4:20 P.M. on Friday afternoon. Deny, disagree, debate…

Twitter

Via Roaming Millennial.

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Whose life? Theirs or yours?

[tarran]

I think Nick is having a stroke. Someone should look into his office to check on him.

[esteve7]

Libertarians --- plotting to take the world over, and leave you alone

[loveconstitution1789]

Libertarians --- plotting to have low taxes, insist that we ALL follow the same laws, shrink government to do as little as possible and only use violence in self-defense.

[Rufus The Monocled]

I don't get it.

Then again. I don't get a lot of things.

[Johnny Hit n Run Paulene]

I'm with you, Count.

[Johnny Hit n Run Paulene]

Now I see that the post got fixed and makes moar sense.

[AlmightyJB]

I still don't get it

[Jerryskids]

Look, I'm not gonna lie to you about it.

[Caput Lupinum]

In case the picture I believe Nick was trying to reference isn't showing up for anyone else either.

[tarran]

I see he fixed it.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Not for those whose browsers are wisely blocking social media plugins.

[T.F.G.]

I disagree with that comic vehemently.

[Jerryskids]

Your comment has made me vomit with rage.

[T.F.G.]

Sorry, but this sounds like a suspicious claim. Do you have a link for this?

[DOOMco]

Whatever, tulpa.

[R C Dean]

I'm having a hard time arguing against "libertarians ruined libertarianism" these days.

[A frilly pink thing]

Looking at you Bill Weld.

[Ken Shultz]

The great thing about being libertarian is that once we agree that people should be free to make choices for themselves, we don't have to agree on anything else.

[T.F.G.]

Or do we?

[Tony]

You don't agree that people should be free to choose to pool resources on a national scale to enact a universal healthcare scheme. That freedom is off the table.

[FreeToFear]

Nope, they're totally free to do that... they are not, however, free to rob me in support of that scheme.

[Tony]

Any collective decision making requires enforcement of some kind. Even if it's just ten people.

[Sir Digby Chicken Caesar]

No, it doesn't.

[Tony]

Really? Does libertarianism only work if we assume that all people agree about everything and never dispute anything?

[Sir Digby Chicken Caesar]

No.

NEXT!

[FreeToFear]

I see. So my 5 neighbors are free to enact a "Universal Home scheme", where they put all of the homeless people in local houses, including mine. I didn't ask for or opt in to this scheme, and their collective decision making gives them the freedom to enforce this mechanism on me.

#freedom

[Sir Digby Chicken Caesar]

He really is an authoritarian shit stain. He actually thinks feels that majority rule is just fine and dandy (until it no longer works for him), and any force used to make it happen is just fine and dandy (until it doesn't work for him).

[Tony]

No I actually just believe in the run-of-the-mill order of every free society on earth in contrast to your self-contradicting utopian bullshit.

[Sir Digby Chicken Caesar]

Your definition of "free society" is the bullshit one. I've never claimed Utopia, and you're the one who thinks threat of pain/imprisonment/death is the virtuous way to go.

[DesigNate]

Don't sell yourself short there Tony, you believe in the summary execution of your political enemies, like all those real life self-contradictory utopia's the democrats like you support.

[Bodica Slayer of Woodchip]

Tony, Tony, Tony - still posting and still as stupid today as his first post.

He really thinks tyranny of the majority makes a "free society".

[Tony]

If you didn't get to participate in the voting, it's not democracy.

[Sir Digby Chicken Caesar]

"Fine, let's take a vote. Who wants fish for dinner?...Yeah, democracy ain't so fun when it fucks you, huh?"

It's all wine and roses for your pet cause, until people start balking at it. Then, it's all, "How dare you?!? You're so evil for not wanting what I want!"

[John Titor]

"So you vote for television, and everyone, as far as your eye can see, votes to fuck you with switchblades. That's voting. You're welcome."

[Agammamon]

If you didn't get to participate in the voting, it's not democracy.

Ah I see - 'but we all *voted*, said the two wolves to the sheep.'

[Eman]

I think he/she/it is right about the definition of the word. I don't think the process is the point though. And all anyone (that i take seriously, at least) has ever claimed about democracy/republicanism is that its the least bad system anyone's come up with so far. Thinking free marketeers are utopian is, well, "thinking" is the wrong word.

[John Titor]

Any collective decision making requires enforcement of some kind. Even if it's just ten people.

Jesus Christ you're either profoundly stupid or extremely lonely. The very existence of thousands, if not millions of voluntary clubs and groups disproves your statement. I better tell the local Badminton club that they need to beat the shit out of those who don't comply instead of just letting them leave.

[Stormy Dragon]

Suppose a member of the local Badminton club stop paying his membership fee, but still keeps coming to hang out at the weekly meeting. Does the rest of the club have to just put up with his presence, or do they have the power to forbid him to keep coming?

[John Titor]

You know Stormy, it's never come up. Every person who has stopped paying their membership fee has left voluntarily without enforcement, in a club of dozens. Almost like that validates my argument towards his statement of collective decisions needing to be enforced. Now, that does not negate the possibility of the need for enforcement, and nor do I suggest that anywhere. But it's almost like some people are able to negotiate, in large groups even, and follow terms based on archaic concepts like 'your word' and 'honour'.

[Stormy Dragon]

Every person who has stopped paying their membership fee has left voluntarily without enforcement

In most muggings, the victim turns over their wallet without actually having to get beat up by the mugger. That doesn't mean they're turning it over voluntarily. Likewise with the badminton club, the threat of enforcement was always there even if you didn't have to use it. If you had actually been powerless to make them leave, would they all have gone voluntarily? Who knows.

Tony was correct that even libertarians ultimately have to rely enforcement in order to be able to form collective agreements. The difference between libertarians and collectivists, like the difference between the badminton club and the mugger, is that libertarians enforce exclusion while collectivists enforce inclusion.

[Agammamon]

They don't *enforce* inclusion, they *force* it.

[Whahappan?]

Suppose a member of the local Badminton club wanted to quit, but the club threatens him with violence and death if he stops paying his membership fee.

[Scarecrow & WoodChipper Repair]

No wonder they like Islam so much. It's not some pansy faux-religion like Christianity or (gasp!) Buddhism which doesn't care if you switch sects or switch your entire religion or even desert religion altogether.

[Deli-bro]

"desert religion"

I see what you did there

[Agammamon]

And the *collective* that made that decision is allowed to use any method to bind *its members* that the members have agreed to.

I however, am not in that collective.

The 'United States of America' is not a collective.

[Bodica Slayer of Woodchip]

Your decision-making is ONLY achieved through force and coercion.

It's like the Hotel California. The only way to end the collective is to kill yourself.

[Col. Chestbridge]

"Free". "Choose".

Words, how do they work?

[Sir Digby Chicken Caesar]

You don't agree that people should be free to choose to force all other citizens, under pain of imprisonment and/or death, to pool resources on a national scale to enact a universal healthcare scheme

FIFY, you cheap, lying fuck-hole

[El Oso]

What the fuck is a 'universal heathcare scheme'? Will it apply to the citizens of Alpha Centauri?

[Tony]

Refer to the entire civilized world.

[Scarecrow & WoodChipper Repair]

Wlel that lets you out. Explains why Congress exempts itself from so many laws too.

[A frilly pink thing]

The US isn't civilized?

What kind of idiot thinks that?

[Bodica Slayer of Woodchip]

You don't get to define the "civilized world".

[DesigNate]

Medical care is not a fucking right, no matter how many times you insist otherwise.

[Mickey Rat]

No, because the "universal" goal negates the right anyone who thinks it is pie in sky stupidity to not participate.

[Bodica Slayer of Woodchip]

"Pool resources on a national scale" . . . You mean - through force and coercion?

[DOOMco]

OH YEAH?!

[Spartacus]

Looks spot on to me. Needs a few more true Scotsmen though.

[Pan Zagloba]

Via Roaming Millennial.

Shoulda saved that for Robby Links.

[End Child Unemployment]

I'll kill every one of you bastages for what you've done to libertopia.

[John Titor]

Holy shit Nick make a pop culture reference from within this decade, is he ok?

Oh wait...*imdbs, realizes that episode from 2004* Was worried there for a minute.

[Chipwooder]

It's precisely those constant squabbles that I like most about libertarianism. I find mass, lockstep political beliefs to be unsettling.

[deepspeed]

It's almost as if libertarians have principles to which they adhere, regardless of whom they're debating.

[Ornithorhynchus]

' ...and seemed to speak a deep truth, at least at 4:20 P. M..... '

Yeah. I bet a lot of things seem to speak a deep truth around that time.

[Jay Dubya]

im glad im not the only one that noticed the tine

[Pat (PM)]

Haha, Nick with the youthful and rebellious references. It's no wonder he connects so well with the Millennials!

[Uncle Jay]

RE: "You Libertarians Sure Are a Contentious People." "You've Just Made an Enemy for Life!"

This is nothing new.
Libertarians always make enemies of slavers and those who want to be slaves everywhere.

[livertarian]

Nah... for the most part, I've been the one building the goddamn bridges with family and friends. No enemies for life here.
But I have often thought that if libertarianism suddenly became popular enough to win highest office, I might get a little suspicious.

[Half-Virtue, Half-Vice]

It's kind of funny. But I reckon it was sent only under the pretense of humor and it's true purpose can be nothing other than a barb cast to be hurtful by a very pretty individual.

[This Machine Chips Fascists]

*fires up wood chipper, tosses in an orphan as function check*
You talkin' to me?

[Johnny Hit n Run Paulene]

Nick, do you feel othered?

[SIV]

Libertarianism is just a lower calorie, artificially sweetened, cannabis-infused form of statism.

[The Bearded Hobbit]

I've been to a World's Fair, two picnics and a rodeo and that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

SIV: "White is a form of black"

... Hobbit

[juris imprudent]

Worst alt-text evah!

[AlmightyJB]

I don't have enemies, I have a shovel.

[Stormy Dragon]

I'm reminded of the old joke that libertarian concentration camps wouldn't need guards because the inmates would be too busy arguing over who was most to blame for getting everyone sent there to escape.

[lukashik]

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