"Clinton Leads By Double-Digits In New National Poll" BUT IS TIED WITH TRUMP IN ACTUAL RACE…
It's a sad thing when major-party advocates insist that a four-way race only includes two people.

So here's the breathless headline from a post at Talking Points Memo (TPM), the progressive news-and-commentary site that supports Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election: "Clinton Leads By Double-Digits in New National Poll."
Sounds impressive, doesn't it? Just like good old Charlie Brown, Hillary Clinton is finally going to win a game, kick the football held by Lucy, slip free of the kite-eating tree, and all that!
Hillary Clinton comes out ahead by 10 points in a new poll of likely voters nationwide from Fairleigh Dickinson University.
Clinton bests Donald Trump in the ballot, 50-40, in a head-to-head match.
OK, but what happens when you add in Libertarian Gary Johnson and Green Jill Stein, the other two candidates for whom Americans in all 50 states can vote? The former Secretary of State still leads the GOP candidate, but not by double digits. Now Clinton's lead shrinks to single digits, with Clinton at 45 percent, Trump at 36 percent, Johnson at 11 percent, and Stein at 3 percent. Caveat lector and all that: These are small samples with high margins of error, yadda yadda yadda.
Why do we even bother with polls that don't include all national candidates? The only reason is because doing so perpetuates the two-party duopoly that managed to produce candidates that are the most disliked in recorded U.S. history. TPM runs a handy-dandy "poll tracker" that allows users to aggregate various polls. Needless to say, the site's default tracker isn't set to four-way polls. Of course not, because TPM, like so much of the legacy and new media wants this race to be about Hillary and the Donald. It's easier that way, isn't it?
So what happens if you select four-way polls? Here you go:
While Clinton is slumping in both scenarios, the latter one is drearier still, as it shows low but stable support for Johnson, who really is a fly in the ointment, isn't he? A socially liberal yet fiscally conservative two-term former governor whose running mate is the same. Who needs more choices in a race that "feels like a joke" for some and picking between "cholera and gonorrhea" for others?
I'm a regular reader of TPM, which is one of the most-impressive online outlets around. I disagree with most of its analysis, but that's really neither here nor there. But I'm always left wondering why media sites, regardless of their ideological orientation (or professed lack of a political POV) foreground and even commission two-candidate polls. It's so transparently a false way of talking about everyday reality and it's so obviously in the service of shoring up a stultifying binary system of harshly limited choice that has broken down in every other area of our lives.
For me, the situation is reminiscent of what happened when the music industry begrudgingly embraced SoundScan, a service that collected actual point-of-sale data to generate its charts of top-selling albums and singles. Prior to the adoption of SoundScan in the early 1990s, Brian Wawaznek described how Billboard created its charts:
Billboard began publishing a chart of the top albums in 1945. It had gone through many permutations and names over the years, based on the rising popularity of the LP and numerous shifts in the music industry. But before 1991, one thing stayed the same: the method for determining the chart positions. The magazine used a survey method, in which staff members called record stores and retail outlets all over the U.S. and took the managers' word on what had been selling during the past week.
Big record labels were expert at gaming the system in all sorts of ways and because of the amount of power it gave them to push whatever they wanted, they had no real interest in changing things and adopting a new system even (or especially) one that reflected actual consumer taste. Wawaznek notes that best-seller lists tend to generate more sales of whatever is on them. While the labels and large segments of the radio industry were invested heavily in certain types of rock music, once SoundScan started counting what people actually bought, it turned out that country, rap, and heavy metal, genres that suits and mainstream critics tended to disdain, were far more popular than good, old American rock 'n' roll. "Both N.W.A and Skid Row sat atop the Billboard 200 in the first month of the SoundScan era," he writes. "Two albums by [country star Garth] Brooks, and Metallica's Black Album [sat] among records by Natalie Cole and Michael Bolton" at the top of 1991's best-seller charts. And the rock-descended music that listeners really wanted didn't sound like the Bob Seger or The Allman Brothers.
The best example of the changing musical landscape forged by SoundScan is Nirvana and the band's blockbuster album Nevermind. Would it have been a blockbuster before SoundScan? A 1992 article in Spin magazine deemed a No. 1 album by Nirvana "unthinkable" before the new era, suggesting that the "charts don't just report tastes; they amplify and shape them."
Here's how it happened: Nevermind and its accompanying lead single, "Smells Like Teen Spirit," come out a few months after Billboard publishes its first SoundScan chart. Buzz builds on alternative radio, around the Nirvana tour and within the industry, which results in decent album sales, which are now accurately reported on the Billboard chart. Others, like MTV and mainstream rock radio, begin to take notice of the numbers. They start playing Nirvana. More fans hear "Smells Like Teen Spirit." Metalheads come around. Old guys who haven't bought an album in 10 years get interested. Pop fans embrace Nirvana. Requests to radio go way up. Sales take a huge jump. In only a few months, the alt-rock underdogs dethrone the King of Pop on the top of the Billboard 200.
Nevermind has been called a game-changer. It was. It is. But it probably doesn't get close to being a landmark album without the industry game-changer of SoundScan.
Let's return to politics: Like the old record labels and the critical tastemakers who supported it, the media and the two major parties are deeply invested in a political status quo that is crumbling in front of us. Even without polls (charts) that represent our full range of choices, fewer and fewer of us identify as Republicans and Democrats. Eventually we'll get to a point where the cognitive dissonance between what NBC, Fox, The New York Times, and even new-media outlets such as TPM want and what the rest of us actually believe gets so big that they'll have to change the way they think and talk about politics. That moment will likely come sooner if the media followed the race as it actually is rather than how they would like it to be, but it will come eventually.
There's an old saying that you shouldn't confuse the map with the territory it's trying to represent. The way we talk about presidential elections is at best misleading and at worst purposefully mendacious. But it won't be the supporters of Gary Johnson and Jill Stein who will be surprised when they realize their "map" has left them stranded in the wilderness.
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Why do we even bother with polls that don't include all national candidates?
Partly because the reality is that either cholera or gonorrhea is going to win. Third-party numbers may impact the outcome, like Perot and Nader did, but their support did not change the underlying reality.
Third-party numbers may impact the outcome
And the point of polls are, supposedly, to predict an outcome.
Polls announcements tend to be the bat signal to alert the sheeple on how the masses are voting. Unfortunately for liberals, things are not working out like they hoped.
why bother with 2-way or 4-way national polls at all when the election is decided on a state-by-state basis?
#NailedIt
While I appreciate the article, I'll believe it when I see an election where people don't chicken out at the last second and vote R or D regardless of what they told pollsters earlier. It happened in 92', and it may happen again, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. As long as everyone is more terrified of the Other than anything else, it really is only a two way race. Like I said, I'm open and would be happy to be proven wrong, but I need the proof first.
Which means that Clinton will blow out Trump since she stands to benefit more from a flight to security by supposed third-party voters. Trump's only hope is that a huge chunk of people lied to pollsters about their political sympathies, which is plausible given the climate but I wouldn't bet on it. Then again, Hillary isn't exactly commanding passion from huge swathes of the country, so there's that.
I don't get the blowout narrative. Hillary represents the status quo; she embodies everything that is wrong with a system that voters supposedly hate. Plus people don't trust her. Hardly makes Trump a shoo-in but the current climate would seem more helpful than harmful to his chances.
Except that his style turns off a lot of people.
and his style also brings forth a lot of support. Maybe this is crazy, but I think some of the blowback on the SJW stupidity and the anthem kneeling comes from people having seen that not being PC can be done. Hard to imagine a candidate more of a middle finger to the system than Trump, and even people who don't like him have that same sentiment.
Trump has a high floor - and the exact same ceiling. He's gonna get 40% +/- 1%. In theory, he could try to work his unfavorables (around 60%) down and raise his ceiling. But he's incapable of that and incapable of listening to any of his advisors who tell him that. And it really isn't because he is riding an anti-PC wave. It's because he keeps directly insulting the people who are still on the fence and don't like Clinton.
My own prediction - If Trump sees polls in the last couple weeks that actually show him with a chance to win, he will deliberately sabotage himself. He doesn't want to be President for four years. He wants to make money off his brand - and that value declines the second he actually gets elected and ends up making deals as Prez.
The more the liberal media and progressive elites say Hillary is ahead, the more that I know that she is not ahead and will not win. For me its simply the overcompensation of Ra-Ra for Hillary tells me that they know she will not win. It reeks of desperation.
If Johnson's 8% breaks 4/2/2% for Clinton/Trump/Johnson and Green's goes 2/0.5% for Clinton/Green, Clinton is going to blow out Trump. I'm pulling numbers out of my ass, but the point is Johnson's pulled more from Clinton all along and a breakdown in which she inherits the bulk of his and Green's supporters means she's up on Trump by 8+%, assuming she holds her current lead, which I suspect she'll cement after Saturday. She'd end up with a higher margin than McCain in 2008.
Maybe, maybe not. Since Herself generates no enthusiasm, it's a good guess that the black turnout will be far less than it was the last two cycles. I've seen more than a few blacks, lifelong Dems, on the Trump train. The gender card is not working, either, as women can see the reality of who Hillary is as well as anyone else can. The only people even remotely energized are the Trumpkins. Doesn't mean he wins, but I'm just not seeing the runaway.
I'm steeling myself for what at this point seems inevitable, so you wouldn't be wrong to call me a pessimist.
Its a long way from inevitable. Still basically a toss-up. Hell, both the poll aggregates above are statistical ties.
It comes down to whether Trump can exercise impulse control for the next month v whether Hillary's doctor can manage her meds for the next month, IMO.
Although, I do believe that the margin of fraud, which always favors the Dem, has gotten bigger over the last cycle or two. To the extent Hillary has a hole card, that's it.
trump reps the white privilege old skool status quo, too. it cuts both ways with both of them
Hillary isn't exactly commanding passion.
I just got back from a week long driving trip through the Northeast: New York, Massachusetts, and Vermont. Beautiful countryside, really terrific this time of year.
Drove about 600 miles, mostly from one small city to another large town. We were on the lookout for political signage as we drove about, and saw a grand total of four Clinton yard signs and one bumper sticker. All four yard signs were posted in front of multimillion dollar estates: I surmise they were posted by Dem Party officials.
Yet in the reportedly solid Democratic Northeast, we saw hundreds of Trump yard signs and quite a few bumper stickers.
I don't doubt that Clinton is going to sweep these states, but there doesn't appear to be any enthusiasm about it.
Drove about 600 miles, mostly from one small city to another large town.
To clarify: they were different small cities and large towns on each day. The point is that most of the driving was outside of large cities like NYC and Boston.
But even in NYC and Albany we saw no signs of support for Clinton. None.
If you didn't go near the cities, that's why you didn't see Hillary plastered everywhere. In small hickville, people don't care so much for her. Unfortunately city folk far outnumber everyone else.
It's all those white deplorables we keep hearing about.
Hillary doesn't need passion. Democrats have a huge electoral edge anyway. She needs to drum up a few fearful votes here and there to drag her campaign carcass the last few feet over the finish line. Trump is the one who needs to be doing the heavy lifting, and passion and turnout alone may not be enough to swing it. He needed to have built a coalition, not just disaffected white voters but college-educated whites and maybe even shaving off more than a token few ethnic votes. Which means he needed comport himself well during the debate. He performed abysmally even by the low expectations on him, and I expect no better Saturday. He has to swing for the fence and instead he's going to repeatedly bash himself in the nuts.
^ This. It's just further evidence that he's simply riding a wave without any clear plan.
It didn't really happen in 1992 though. Perot's vote percentage matched quite closely to his poll numbers at the end of the race. If he hadn't dropped out of like three months (during which time his poll number dropped from the 30s to the single digits), he could have won, or at least placed second in the popular vote and won a bunch of states.
^ This. Perot starting tanking long before the election, and his sitting out for three months convinced he couldn't win did him as much harm as anything.
OK, but what happens when you add in Libertarian Gary Johnson and Green Jill Stein, the other two candidates for whom Americans in all 50 states can vote?
There's no Jill Stein on my GA ballot.
According to this, she's a write-in candidate.
Technically, so am I.
There's a write-in blank for every race on my ballot but only 3 named candidates for POTUS. 19 races total on the ballot. 15 of those are republicans running unopposed. Only two races have democrats running at all. There are three libertarian candidates.
Write-ins dont really count.
In some odd circumstances, they do, but not this one.
I got my CA sample ballot yesterday and was pleasantly surprised to find Johnson/Weld as the top line in the POTUS column. People who are just randomly saying "anyone but" are most likely to go with the first name they see, so this could give him some unignorable numbers come election day. Not victory numbers, but I could see him getting more votes than Trump in CA.
Garth Brooks sucks. Chris Gaines would kick his ass.
Aww you're gonna break his achy breaky heart
You know what you get when you play Garth Brook's music backwards?
Your truck, your dog, and your girlfriend back?
a redemption story?
A headache, still?
Except, of course, time and time again, people tell pollsters they are going to vote for Bob Barr, then lose their nerve and vote for McCain or Obama.
Which in effect means that the two person matchup polls have utility in predicting.
Minor correction needed. Jill Stein is on the ballot in 44 states plus DC. So 89.4% of voters will see her name on their ballots. (Source: October 1, 2016 edition of Ballot Access News published by Richard Winger.)
When Weld drops out to take down Donald Trump then Hillary is going to take it in a walk.
"Why do we even bother with polls that don't include all national candidates? The only reason is because doing so perpetuates the two-party duopoly that managed to produce candidates that are the most disliked in recorded U.S. history."
The polls are meant to discourage dissent.
"Americans love a winner and will not tolerate a loser. Americans play to win all the time . . . . The very thought of losing is hateful to Americans."
----General George S. Patton
http://tinyurl.com/j4ufmu3
Americans love winning. Americans hate losing. We can't even abide sports with a lot of ties where there are no winners or losers. That's why soccer isn't as popular as it would be. They had to change the rules in the NHL so there wouldn't be so many ties.
Every year for the Super Bowl, tens of millions of Americans tune in to watch who didn't watch a game all season. Only two cities are represented, but all across the nation at Super Bowl parties everywhere the question is the same: "Who are you rooting for"?
Some people try to fudge. "Well, I think that team wins, but I want this team to win" because they know what's coming after the game. Joy for the winners and taunting of the losers--as if they had actually won the game themselves.
They emphasize the polls because they want Trump supporters to feel like losers before the game is played. They want Trump supporters to fear the shame of losing--so Trump supporters won't tell other people who they're rooting for. Americans hate losers, and they hate being losers.
They make a big deal of the polls because they want undecided voters to feel like voting for Trump will make them losers.
They emphasize the polls because they want Trump supporters to feel like losers before the game is played.
there is a lot of truth in this. I know Donnie is making a lot of noise about a rigged process but there is some backing for that. Numerous local news outlets have reported instances of fraud, each traceable to the Dems. People saw what the DNC did to Bernie and they know all about Hillary's being the standard-bearer of a status quo folks say they hate.
I doubt this dynamic would be any different had any of the others GOP candidates won. We might spend less time on a beauty queen gaining weight, but that would be replaced by something equally nonsensical, anything that would distract from the creature that Herself is.
They emphasize the polls because they want Trump supporters to feel like losers before the game is played
Wasted effort. If just being a Trump supporter isn't enough to make you feel like a loser, nothing will.
Americans have short attention spans. Winners and losers are calculated at the end of the year.
Oooh, nifty.
A couple of months ago, I was convinced that Trump would win. I really did not expect him to be so incredibly bad at running for president. So now I think it is a toss up.
Hillary should lose because:
Obama beat Romney by a large margin, but that was driven by record turn out of blacks and young people. Blacks are still pissed at the Clintons for Bill's policies in the 90s that put so many black men in prison (there are a plenty of articles discussing this). Young people hate Hillary and love Bernie. They will either stay home or vote third party.
Parties rarely hold the presidency for three straight terms. I really doubt that democrats can hold the office three straight terms this time.
The economy is supposedly doing OK, but in reality blue-collar labor is hurting badly. The Obama administration broke the balance between solidarity politics (labor support) and grievance politics (minorities, women, immigrants, etc). Blue-collar labor were a big chunk of the voters that pushed Trump into the nomination in open primaries. They are not going back to Hillary.
The dynamics are totally against Clinton. Her only saving grace is Trump himself.
Trump has the same Duck Dynasty demographic that Republicans always get minus a few people who have managed to get their faces out of their cousins' snatches long enough to rationally fear for the safety of the human species.
Clinton has the same (majority) coalition Democrats always get minus a few fat, hairy 22 year-old Cheeto munchers who can't get over the fact that their boyfriend Bernie dumped them. She'll win.
It's always refreshing when liberals show up to share their love and benevolence with the unfeeling haters.
Tony aren't you one that claims to be tolerant loving and inclusive?
Lol that she has the same coalition
When did I ever claim that?
Lovely. Classy as fuck.
Romney won a majority of congressional districts, just not enough, or by enough, to carry the states.
If every state had the ME/NE system, Romney would be running for reelection this year.
But isn't it a good thing that the EC vote aligns with the popular vote more often than not.
Oh, sure, throw your vote away on Hillary, Mister Monkey See, Monkey Do.
who are these mystery people participating in polls? do you have to have a vintage phone landline?? wtf?
I get probably 4 polling calls a day on my landline (my house is in a total dead spot for cell coverage for some reason, and I never turn on my cellphone anyway because I don't want people to call me).
I've started to tell them that I'm not responding to polls or surveys any more, in progressively ruder ways, in the hope that they will stop calling.
YouGov polled me this week (first time ever).
So I get my vote totaled twice this election.
Wow, you're a Democrat?
My special lady friend has a pink Princess phone. She gets calls for Mary Kay products but no polls.
I'm predicting 10 million votes for Johnson.
As an alternative to looking at polls, there are real money prediction markets:
http://predictwise.com
"PredictWise reflects David Rothschild's academic, peer-reviewed, research into prediction markets, along with polling and online/social media data. The backbone of predictions on this site are market-based, generated from real-money markets that trade contracts on upcoming events."
The electoral map based on PredictWise shows a very comfortable lead for Clinton:
http://www.270towin.com/maps/p.....ctoral-map
It is missing 2 candidates too.
It's not based on polls, so maybe no one is betting on them.
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The reference to "the map is not the territory" is a dead giveaway that Gillespie is an acolyte of the "General Semantics" cult that was popularized by 1950's science fiction writers and is currently being bankrolled by the Koch plutocrap dynasty. Leaked memos indicate that Koch Industries will soon require all employees and contractors to communicate in Speedtalk, a constructed language that makes illogical statements impossible. Speedtalk is inherently logophallocentric and misogynist, in addition to being transphobic and Islamophobic.
How are we supposed to fight patriarchy if we're not free to say things that are self-contradictory and batshit insane? Like this article, for instance. http://www.hivplusmag.com/stig.....lling-them
So here's the breathless headline from a post at Talking Points Memo (TPM), the progressive news-and-commentary site that supports Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election: "Clinton Leads By Double-Digits in New National Poll."
No TPM - I won't hold my nose and waste my vote on your candidate Hillary Clinton, who is a bigger war monger than Dick Cheney, who counts the international war criminal Henry Kissinger as a pal and inspiration , and who supports the racist and un Constitutional war on drugs.
No TPM - I won't hold my nose and waste my vote on your candidate the racist war monger and sworn enemy of individual liberty, Hillary Clinton!!!
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