World War 2

America's Other World War II Internment Camps

The legacy of the German and Japanese prisoners held hostage


The Train to Crystal City: FDR's Secret Prisoner Exchange Program and America's Only Family Internment Camp During World War II, by Jan Jarboe Russell, Scribner, 432 pages, $18


Most Americans are aware of the War Relocation Authority camps established after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. That program rounded up and interned 120,000 people of Japanese ancestry, more than half of them born in the United States. Less well known is the Alien Enemy Control Unit program, which scooped up other Japanese Americans, along with German and Italian Americans that the Justice Department considered national security threats, often on the flimsiest of evidence.

The Alien Enemy Control Unit camp in Crystal City, Texas, was the program's only detention center specifically designed to accommodate families. It is the focus of The Train to Crystal City, the Texas-based journalist Jan Jarboe Russell's painful account of the Americans held in captivity and used as hostages to recover other Americans held abroad during World War II.

Like so much else associated with overweening government, the family relocations were launched with something resembling good intentions: to let family members live with their already detained parents and spouses. But the incarcerations of sons, daughters, and wives simply added to the human toll of what was already an unjust and unjustifiable system.

In the days immediately after Pearl Harbor, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt set in motion a chain of events that would wreck tens of thousands of lives while providing scant return in terms of national security.

Attorney General Francis Biddle later wrote, "I do not think Roosevelt was much concerned with the gravity or implications of this step." In fact, the president had been contemplating such a step for years, long before the United States entered World War II. On September 1, 1939, the day Germany invaded Poland, Roosevelt ordered the creation of a top secret Special Division within the State Department. Its task: to catalog important Americans living in Germany and Japan. A few months later, he authorized the Special War Problems Division to identify Japanese and Germans in the United States and Latin America who could be used as trade bait for those Americans.

The government was therefore able, within days of Pearl Harbor, to take 1,212 Japanese, 620 Germans, and 98 Italians into custody. Many, many more would follow. When FDR asked Biddle how many Germans were in the country, Biddle told him there were about 600,000. "And you're going to intern all of them," Roosevelt replied.

They didn't intern all of them. But on February 19, 1942—just 74 days after Pearl Harbor—FDR signed the notorious Executive Order 9006, condemning Japanese, Germans, and Italians to forced removals from "military zones." The legal underpinning for the human disaster that followed was now in place. The War Relocation Authority, formed on March 18, 1942, operated in regions designated Military Areas 1 and 2, covering California, Oregon, Washington, and Arizona. The Alien Enemy Control Unit, created soon after in the Department of Justice, ran Crystal City and operated branches in each federal judicial district, where Alien Enemy Hearing Boards determined who would be interned.

While tens of thousands of Americans were sent to the camps, the reach of the program extended beyond the U.S. border via the Emergency Advisory Committee for Political Defense, a multi-national arrangement run by the State Department that worked with Latin American nations to find and detain enemy aliens. Peru, for example, deported 1,799 Japanese, 702 Germans, and 49 Italians to the United States. In total, 4,058 Germans, 2,264 Japanese, and 288 Italians from 13 Latin American countries were sent to the U.S.; many ended up at Crystal City.

As was often the case in California and other Western states, there was more at work in the Latin American deportations than a concern for national security, or even overt racism. "In return for delivering Axis nationals to the United States," Russell writes, "the governments seized their homes, businesses and bank accounts." Deportation could be a money-making proposition.

Russell's narrative is framed by the stories of two young women, one German, one Japanese.

Ingrid Eiserloh and Sumi Utsushigawa, who followed their fathers into custody, became part of the "Quiet Passage" prisoner-exchange program, in which prisoners held at Crystal City were traded for Americans held in Germany and Japan. Ostensibly, the program sent enemy aliens "home." In reality, as with both Eiserloh and Utsushigawa, they often were sent to countries they had never seen in their lives.

Until then, they were interned at the 290-acre camp. This settlement stood in a dusty no-man's land, which detainees reached after interminable rides aboard dark trains. The camp itself was no more welcoming. "Guards with long rifles were positioned in six guard towers," Russell writes. "At night, the searchlights from the camp could be seen across the border in Mexico."

Barbed wire rimmed the camp, situated in the trackless South Texas desert with virtually no paved roads, few amenities of civilization, and long stretches of sand and sage.

Sumi Utsushigawa's father, Tokiji, a photographer and owner of the apartment building in which his family lived, was first taken to the Santa Fe Internment Camp. No explanation for his arrest was ever given. Others in his building had been taken away before him. One was a woman who had entertained members of the Japanese navy who were visiting the United States. Others, Russell writes, were arrested "for having feudal dolls or playing Japanese music."

Sumi and her mother were sent to the Heart Mountain camp in Wyoming. Within a year, the two women were selected to be part of a prisoner exchange that would free more than 1,300 Americans being held by Japan. But the numbers didn't match up, and nearly 100 of the Japanese Americans were taken out of line, Sumi and her mother among them.

In a dark irony, they were then sent to Ellis Island, that beacon of hope for immigrants coming to America. After a short stay there, they were brought to Crystal City via train and reunited with Sumi's father, who had been moved there from Santa Fe. After two years, the Utsushigawas were sent to Japan, where the Los Angeles–born Sumi had never lived.

Ingrid Eiserloh was born in New York and lived in Strongsville, Ohio. Her father, a German immigrant named Mathias, was arrested a month after Pearl Harbor. Again, no reason was given. When two FBI agents came to his door, they seized an address book containing the names and addresses of other German legal aliens, a list of shortwave German radio programs, and some personal effects.

He was a legal resident, and he showed the agents his alien ID card. "No charges were filed," Russell recounts, "and he would never be convicted of any crime." Nevertheless, Mathias Eiserloh did not see his family for a year and a half, until they were reunited at Crystal City. They stayed there for another 18 months before they were selected to be part of a prisoner exchange with Germany.

The full story of that exchange is at once so heartbreaking and so uplifting I won't spoil it here. Suffice to say that events transpired that would alter the lives of hundreds of people—including 565 American POWs—even more desperate than the Eiserlohs and the Utsushigawas.

Members of both families got jobs at U.S. military installations in their new countries. Ingrid Eiserloh and Sumi Utsushigawa would eventually make their way back to the United States.

The Crystal City camp remained a going concern for almost three years after the war ended in 1945. Trapped behind barbed wire, with armed guards still standing sentry, the few remaining prisoners were a problem nobody in the government seemed to know how to solve. Some countries, such as Peru, did not want their detainees returned. The children of German-born detainees did not want to be shipped to Germany. The camp finally closed in February 1948, after the final prisoners were released.

Forty years later, President Ronald Reagan issued a formal apology to the Japanese and Japanese Americans sent to detention camps, and $37 million was made available by Congress to pay restitution. But no apology and no payments have come for Germans and Italians placed in the same straits.

While The Train to Crystal City is a marvelous accomplishment, it does contain several small errors of fact. Russell writes that no one read Mathias Eiserloh his rights "because as a legal resident alien…Eiserloh had no rights under US laws." This was 20 years before Miranda v. Arizona; very few people, citizens or not, were getting their rights read to them in 1942. She also refers to the Japanese tea ceremony as a "tea service," calls Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson "Stinson," and describes the robust and newlywed 1916 version of Woodrow Wilson as "a frail elderly man." Taken as a whole, though, such shortcomings are far outweighed by the blistering indictment delivered by Russell's reportage.

Publishers love authors to "bring the story into the present day," and one reviewer wrote of "obvious parallels between Crystal City and today's Guantanamo Bay detention facility." Russell mostly resists this temptation, though an afterword to the paperback edition claims that the "climate of fear" and the "trauma of war" are "as real today as they were in 1942." That's an exaggeration: While some Guantanamo prisoners were not guilty of being enemy combatants, no Japanese American or Japanese national living in the U.S. was ever convicted of espionage or sabotage.

In any event, this story needs no links to the modern day to give it impact. It is the painful tale of government run amok—and of how, against all odds, at least in some small way the human spirit triumphed over the injustice.

NEXT: ACLU Urges Mass. Court to Vacate 24,000 Drug Cases Based on Tainted Lab Evidence

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  1. “In return for delivering Axis nationals to the United States,” Russell writes, “the governments seized their homes, businesses and bank accounts.” Deportation could be a money-making proposition.

    Immigrant Domain.

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    2. My best friend’s sister makes $89 an hour on the internet . She has been out of a job for six months but last month her check was $14750 just working on the internet for a few hours. Go this website and click tech tab to start your work… Now this website…

    1. How dare you get up this early on a Saturday and on top of that make a better comment than mine.

      1. You can never go wrong with a Trump-leftist icon comparison.

        1. *Flips FDR/Trump dime*

          Comes up dickhead every time.

      2. Immigrant Domain was much much better.

    2. Trump has proposed ‘camps for adults’?

    3. I don’t like Trump, but he’s nowhere near as much of an unmitigated power-mad SOB as FDR was. Maybe being elected will change that. It des, sometimes. But FDR seems to ALWAYS have been a swine.

      1. “President Ronald Reagan issued a formal apology to the Japanese and Japanese Americans sent to detention camps, and $37 million was made available by Congress to pay restitution. But no apology and no payments have come for Germans and Italians placed in the same straits.”

        My great-grandmother and her children were taken to Crystal City; they were “detained” in the camp. When we wrote my grandmother’s obituary, we included this fact. The newspaper edited it out of the obituary before publication. We asked why. The section editor explained it was a “racist myth” spread by the “supremacists” that European whites were ever detained in US camps.

        mainstream media. i shit you not

        1. This would piss me off to the point of going to the office and letting them have it.

    4. Wilson




  2. FDR LBJ Dubya implemented the New Deal interned the Japanese implemented the Great Society bailed out the banks because of the Great Depression because Hitler because poverty because the banks were too big to fail

    Just copy, paste, and strikethrough as needed, and you too can apologize for terrible presidential decisions.

  3. Yes, another contemptible action by a “liberal” hero of the Left. But I always find it hard to get worked up with these stories in light of conscription (which is less controversial!) which is basically the government enslaving young men and expecting them to *die* (not just live in a camp) for whatever cause is deemed important at the time.

    1. I get outraged about both.

  4. OT:

    St. Paul law still requires liquor stores to close at 8pm on weekdays. I say requires instead of forces because the liquor store owners seem to really like the setup.

    The owners like being able to lock up early and not worry that their competitors might stay open later and get more sales. This is the same argument that they use against the idea of Sunday sales too. I am only linking this article because some of the quotes from the liquor store owners are fantastic.

    “If the general public can’t figure out that they ‘need’ alcohol in the time frame that stores are open, then maybe they aren’t responsible enough to drink in the first place,” said Chad Radenbaugh, also a co-owner of Park Liquor.

    Jim Thomas, of Thomas Liquors and Fine Wines, said he gets a different clientele during later hours on Fridays and Saturdays. “We have learned from experience that being open on Friday and Saturday night ’til 10 only seems to attract the younger crowd,” Thomas said. “The students in particular, and many others who would be better off without a purchase.”

    1. Look, if the general public can’t take time off work to go buy their booze in the middle of the day, they clearly aren’t serious enough about their drinking.

    2. “The students in particular, and many others who would be better off without a purchase.”

      But you notice old dude doesn’t close up shop early – he’s more than willing to make the sales that he says these people would be better off without.

      I’ve learned from long experience that every time someone says something is ‘for your own good’ its really for *their* own good. Any benefit to you is purely coincidental.

    3. They’re not required to stay open until 10 on those nights, are they? If he wants to continue closing at 8, he can. People do have interests other than economic ones.

  5. I still think it’s weird how jewish families always send their kids to camp.

    1. A couple days ago, I learned that among the concentration camp prisoners, the slang term for someone who pussied out and just waited for their own death was Muselmann.

      These Semites and their 1,000+ year old grudges.

      1. But this is unpossible. The Jews and Muslims got along swimmingly before 1948!

        1. Are you kidding? The only reason we know of the East European ‘pograms’ is they left survivors. The Islamisists kill everyone.

  6. Under Mackenzie King, Canada did the same thing including Jews and Ukrainians. But this sort of paranoia and pride went as far back as WWI. For example, the town of Berlin, Ontario was changed to Kitchener.

    I’d like to add, in the U.S., Italians who were not interned were put under strict curfew. Quite a few, anyway, lost contact with their families and as well as their businesses.

    I had the pleasure of interviewing the last surviving Italo-Canadian for a piece about the internment of Italian-Canadians about 15 years ago. He was 92 at the time of the interview and has since passed on. Mr. Capobianco was his name.

    1. “For example, the town of Berlin, Ontario was changed to Kitchener.”

      There’s a town in Ohio called Russia; it was founded by French veterans of the Napoleonic wars. They named it after Russia because the landscape and climate reminded them of the brutal Russian winter. But during the cold war, the pronunciation changed to “ROO-shee”.

      There’s also a town called New Berlin that is pronounced “new BUR-lin”.

      1. This is common in the midwest. It’s because mid-westerners have terrible pronunciation skills and generally lazy speech.

        There’s a town in Ohio named Picquah which the locals pronounce ‘pick’-‘way’. There’s a town in Indiana named La Fontaine which the locals pronounce ‘Luh’-‘Fountin’. Many of them also have serious issues with past tense grammar, where they will either say ‘I seen a deer in the road yesterday’ or ‘I have saw deer in the road here before’.

        1. I’ve noticed there are a lot of unnecessary prepositions on the end of sentences as well:

          “Where’s my coat at?”

          “Where did you get that from?”

  7. St. Cloud Somalis really mad that people have the temerity to start talking about terrorism after Somali guy stabs 9 in mall.

    Halima Aden, a freshman at St. Cloud State who was homecoming queen last year at the high school Mr. Adan attended, said, “As soon as they released the name, it was like ‘Terrorism, terrorism, terrorism’ ” in the comment sections on local news websites.

    “Had his name been James Johnson,” she asked, “would the headline say ‘Terrorism?’ “

    I’ll say it again. I am really impressed at how quickly the Somalis have assimilated. They have learned how to play up their victimhood and how to use govt grants to form “community groups”.

    1. “Had his name been James Johnson,” she asked, “would the headline say ‘Terrorism?’ ”

      No. No we wouldn’t.

      Because the Scots aren’t terrorists. Unless you consider their soccer and cuisine to be a terrorist act.

      Anyway, if James Johnson was the perp, the media would come up with a way to connect him to the GOP, or call him a right-wing extremist.

      1. One word: Haggis

      2. “Had his name been James Johnson,” she asked, “would the headline say ‘Terrorism?’ ”

        Kinda depends on whether James Johnson had been reported as shouting a slogan commonly associated with well known terrorist organizations, eh?

        I’m sorry, sweetheart, but if a violent criminal is reported as shouting “Allahu Akbar!”, the tendency is gonna be to assume he’s a Jihadist, and you are just gonna have to f*cking COPE. ‘Cause some of your co-religionists have plum run us fresh out of sympathy.

        1. The whole problem is this bullshit collective thinking. They want to believe they’re “Somalis” and not just regular Americans like anyone else.

          If they’d get over their chip on the shoulder about being some unified collective group of people with some magical shared qualities which are so especially good and special and must be celebrated and which they need to ensure is immune from criticism…. maybe they’d be less psychotically defensive when one of their own goes all ISIS-stabby.

          If instead he was just “crazy Abdi” down the street… and not “our brother Somali”…. maybe they wouldn’t give a shit about the bad impression it left on the “collective”, and they too would say, “That fucker was always messed in the head” instead of “WHY WHITE MAN ALWAYS BE FUCKING WITH US

          The problem with these collectivists is that they assume everyone else is a collectivist too. Which helps explain the rash of idiotic “HEY WHITE PEOPLE” articles which presume there’s some Team White Folk that’s running shit, instead of people just like themselves who happen to be enforcing the law in a manner encouraged by people they themselves elected.

          Maybe they should watch The Wire in high-school, and take notes about how the ‘black city with the black mayor and black police chief perpetuated the ‘racist police state’

          1. One of the interesting dynamics is that the Somalis and the native black folk hate each other.

            1. In my experience, Africans and African-Americans do *not* get along at all.

            2. Yeah, this has always been the case. The African immigrants in NY have always had a salty relationship with native blacks; in fact many tend to move out entirely, go other places. There’s a small-ish Ghanaian population (30,000 or so) in the Bronx, but otherwise you don’t find large communities of Africans in NYC like you do so many other groups. One place you do find them, (aside from the obvious cab-drivers) is there’s always been a thriving ‘street merchant’ thing; they seem to come straight from the airport to Thompkins Sq and drop a blanket on the ground and start hawking apparel or jewelry or accessories. There were always a few blocks you could find them on, and they generally didn’t speak a word of @*#&@* english. I recall as a teen hearing the “black guy selling weed” making fun of the “african guy selling sandals” in the park all the time. Even during the ‘afrocentric’ boom of the early 1990s, it was sort of an odd relationship, where you’d have some ‘spiritually awakened’ black dude from the Bronx with dreads and a big africa-medallion selling incense, while some dude recently arrived from Cameroon looked at him like he was batshit crazy.

            3. The greatest amount of hatred I have ever heard in regards to African Americans comes from actual Africans who lived in the United States, mostly those from Angola and Nigeria. They’ll openly complain about how they’re lazy and insecure. Most of them seem to blame a lack of Jesus rather than anything else.

          2. I think the closest thing to a true white equivalent to these people is those Italian American groups that piss and moan about the Godfather or the Sopranos and sometimes Everybody Loves Raymond tainting the image of Italians, ad how Italians are oppressed because of it; which of course everyone can safely laugh at and ignore because they don’t have any real clout. Incidentally, I’m fairly certain a higher fraction of Arabs or Somalis are terrorists than the fraction of Italians that are Mafiosi.

            1. Yeah, that’s a fairly recent development. I don’t see them complaining about Italian depictions in Happy Days or Grease I reckon.

              In any event…dumb.

          3. No. Is islam. Grow a brain. A la vez, muslim is the experts at victimhood and entitlement, since the beginning. It’s institutionised as fuck into the ingots of the soul of the faith.

      3. Uffda, Rufus.

        I think James Johnson was supposed to be a reference to our well known Norwegian community here in Minnesoda.

        Well known fact that those Norwegian Lutherans who are always stabbing up pot luck dinners are never called terrorists in the media.

        I don’t think we have any Scots in Minnesoda. Even if they were tough enough to survive the winter wearing a skirt and no grundies, the cold will frostbite their balls so bad, they have no chance of procreating.

        1. Yeh well someone should explain Johnson is Scottish (anyway, the ones I’ve worked or hung out with in the past) and if he wanted to single out Norwegians he could, you know, use an actual Norwegian name. Shit, even the least imaginative person could come up with something like Larry Leif or Leif Hansen or something.

          Or EPSEN KNUTSEN!

          1. Obscure Blue Jackets reference FTW !

          2. Espen, retart, “God-bear”. What the dickens are “Epsen”? Like Epsen salts? That’s not American. It’s not even Norwegian.

      4. Bagpipes. Nobody else has a ‘musical’ instrument who came into existence to scare the shit out the player’s enemies.

        1. Read somewhere that nearly every culture invented bagpipes. Scots were the ones that kept them.

          1. Vrangt. All the Celts had bagpipes. And some folk that traded a lot with them does, like Italians and Germans. The various Celts still employ bagpipes in abundance, from Galicia till Escotland.

          2. Vrangt. All the Celts had bagpipes. And some folk that traded a lot with them does, like Italians and Germans. The various Celts still employ bagpipes in abundance, from Galicia till Escotland.

      5. One word: Bagpipes!

        The only musical instrument banned as a weapon in a peace treaty.

        And Jameson is IRISH! Erin go Braugh!

    2. If they’re still calling themselves Somalis… are they just on a really long vacation or something? Seems to me that’s part of the problem.

      1. It’s not too unusual for members even of well assimilated ethnic groups to identify with their ethnic origins. If the next generation doesn’t primarily identify as American, that might be a problem.

        1. It’s not too unusual for members even of well assimilated ethnic groups to identify with their ethnic origins.

          My grandfather (right off the boat) settled in a Russian Orthodox community in NEPA. The area is still referred to as “The Russian Settlement.” People go where they are comfortable and things are familiar. Look at ethnic communities in the big cities. The Irish and the Italians and the Chinese…all banded together with their own. Why would it be any different now?

          I find it interesting, that the same fear/prejudice/xenophobic attitudes still exist today among the “natives.” The Irish, Italians, Chinese… were despised, derided with claims that their cultures/religions “were not compatible with American values.” And today, the very people who would denounce such past derisions as baseless bigotry will stand there, without an inkling of their hypocrisy, do the same to Muslims.

          This time, it’s different!

          1. Of course it’s different. Those other groups weren’t members of a religion that teaches its destiny is to take over the world, by force if needed, and establish a theocratic dictatorship.

              1. It sure was awful that time those Chinese people highjacked airliners and flew them into skyscrapers.

                Or the time that Irishman shot up a gay night club while screaming Erin Go Bragh!

                Or that time an Italian shot up Fort Hood because someone made fun of the pope.

                Yep, no pattern in the violence at all. It’s equally distributed among all ethnic groups and religions.

                1. Something that always surprises me about Francisco and others: They defend Islam as “just another religion like all the others” and Muslims as “just more immigrants like earlier ones,” and then criticize people for “collectivizing” and generalizing. But it seems increasingly obvious that Muslim immigrants and Islam itself are not “just like all the others,” so he’s making the exact error he accuses others of.

                2. Yeah, D, there were no Irish or Italian crime bosses that justified the bigotry back then.

                  Your argument is EXACTLY the same as theirs.

                  Why can’t you see that?

                  Equating all muslims to terrorists is the same as equating all Italians to mobsters. Why is one acceptable and the other not?

                  1. Yeah, D, there were no Irish or Italian crime bosses that justified the bigotry back then.

                    Your argument is EXACTLY the same as theirs.

                    Why can’t you see that?

                    Equating all muslims to terrorists is the same as equating all Italians to mobsters. Why is one acceptable and the other not?

                    Let’s say with the mobster analogy. It’s 1940 and the two of us are talking in old-timey, newsreel voice while smoking unfiltered Chesterfields and periodically adjusting our fedoras.

                    I say to you “there sure are a lot of Italian mobsters. Maybe the Mafia is an Italian thing.”

                    Would your response be to call me a an bigot who thinks all Italians are mobsters?

                    1. To put it another way, if it’s not prejudice to notice that mobsters are often Italian, why is it prejudice to notice that terrorists are often Muslims?

                      Noticing that terrorists tend to be Muslims does not mean you think all Muslims are terrorists just as noticing that most mobsters are Italian does not mean you think all Italians are mobsters.

                      If someone says “most A are B” they are not saying “all B are A”.

                    2. Would your response be to call me a an bigot who thinks all Italians are mobsters?

                      My response to you is that there are bad people in ALL social structures and it’s wrong to punish/discriminate against an entire group for the actions of a tiny few within that group. And that attempting to justify doing so is the very definition of bigotry.

                      To put it another way, if it’s not prejudice to notice that mobsters are often Italian, why is it prejudice to notice that terrorists are often Muslims?

                      There is nothing wrong with doing either, so long as you take no action against the innocent in a group because of the guilty within that group.

                      There are many here that would happily make laws, regulations and policy based simply upon one’s religion.

                    3. But a lot of people ARE thinking that all Muslims are terrorists, that they are all scheming to “take over the world, by force if needed, and establish a theocratic dictatorship”. There is nothing wrong with noticing that much terrorism is Muslim, in fact it would be ridiculous not to do so, or to pretend not to. Also nothing wrong with pointing out that the distinction in your last sentence is one that should be made.

                    4. The above was meant as a reply to Derpetologist. I was referring to his last sentence about “most A are B” vs. “all B are A”.

                  2. Equating all muslims to terrorists is the same as equating all Italians to mobsters.

                    Do you really not see the difference? “Mobster” is an occupation, not an ideology. “Muslim” is an ideology. Of course not every Muslim is a terrorist, but large percentages of Muslims support many of the same things the terrorists do, because Islamic terror is deeply rooted in the ideology.

                  3. The difference is this. One is an ethnic group, people from the same place, with the same culture.

                    The others are believers in an ideology that says they must fight, and convert or kill until their ideology controls the world.

                    The people who believe this can be of any ethnicity.

                    See the difference?

                3. And those Amish that are throwing gays off towers and beheading school kids.

                  Ann was right. Invade their countries and force them to become Christians or kill them…in oil tanker lots.

              2. Just ignore these people, Francisco. I’m sure you can explain to them how they are misinterpreting their own religion.

                Muslim Beliefs About Sharia: Pew Research

                1. It sure is fascinating how the guys from 80 different countries fighting for ISIS are all “perverting” Islam in exactly the same way.

          2. They even came up with a sciency thing like eugenics to explain why those communities were ‘defective’ and threatened the “superior” Anglo-Saxon race.

            1. If you define opposition to immigration as prejudice, you’re basically saying there are no good reasons to restrict immigration.

              1. I’m pretty sure that’s not Rufus’ argument, Rufus’ argument is that eugenics was a thing that was used to justify discriminatory attitudes towards the Irish and Italians. Which is true. ‘Guinea’ is a reference to the supposed black heritage of Italians.

                1. Yes, this is what I meant. Not just Irish and Italians. They went after everyone from Eastern Europeans, Jews, Chinese and of course, blacks.

                  The reasons for restriction used by eugenics were obviously the wrong ones.

        2. Vrangt. My grandfather purposely took the name “Harry” so he’d seem more American. It was blooming commonplace amongst European immigrants. Go read a book, or talk to somebody, and spend less time dithering por la Red.

      2. And why’s it still called Chinatown?

    3. As far as ‘James Johnson’, yeah, yeah they would. Because until it came out that he was actually a progressive they’d spin him as a skinhead nazi Trump-supporter.

    4. If Johnson screamed something like “Denmark and Norway are the property of the holy Swedes! Death to Catholics!” was founded to have connections to/supports the Gustavus Adolphus Liberation of Scandinavia Organization, probably.

    5. Didn’t he ask them if they were Muslim before stabbing them? Is it wrong to stab Infidels?

      There’s a video on Youtube in which a person is walking around a Somali neighborhood interviewing people on the streets… I can’t remember if it was Michigan or Minnesota, but it was up north. The residents on the street are asked if they would rather live under American law or Shariah and every single one of them said “Shariah of course, I’m Muslim” or some close variation of that. I don’t know if the film was put sliced up to only show the responses like that, but it was a lot of people saying this.

      Why do so called ‘liberals’ in this country feel aligned with people who would like for women to have the same rights as dogs and who would put to death gays?

      1. Another question is why libertarians like Francisco d’Anconia insist that Muslims are just another group of immigrants like the Irish were, and that anyone who points out the differences is “xenophobic.”

          1. The Irish were seeking their independence from an empire ruling over them. Islam, I’m not saying all of them, but a really large number of them want to take us out and install Shariah law over the entire planet. So in light of that, Islam is more like the British empire than like the Irish seeking independence.

            1. The Irish ‘seeked’ independence by attacking and murdering people who had nothing to do with their occupation, tried to hold entire colonies independent of British policy hostage, and assassinated Irishman who dared to reject their authority on Irish nationalism. You do not get drum up some horror story about ‘these people will ‘take us out’ to achieve their political goals’ and then excuse Irish assholery of the same nature under some ‘but…but really they’re the victims!’ argument. The pro-shariah people tend to think they’re living under an empire too, that doesn’t excuse mindless violence from them and it doesn’t excuse mindless violence from the Irish.

              1. Nobody is excusing Irish assholery, but the Irish terrorists were not following a divine instruction to take over the world and subject everyone to their religious beliefs.

                1. the Irish terrorists were not following a divine instruction to take over the world and subject everyone to their religious beliefs.

                  Yep, nothing of that nature in Christianity, particularly in America.

                  And plenty of them were.

                  Actually, Hyperion was specifically trying to excuse Irish assholery by trying to frame it as them being poor victims.

                    1. Wait–are you actually comparing manifest destiny to jihad?

                      Are you actually doing that?

                      Because that’s nuts.

                2. I’m less concerned about what the Irish did and more concerned about what the Muslims are doing.

                  1. Then the Irish shouldn’t be used as some idiotic ‘gotcha!’ in regards to immigration. I used to live in Ottawa, where there was a forty year active gang war between the French Canadians and the Irish over jobs in the lumber industry. But the Irish were ‘just another group of immigrants’. Right.

                    1. Oh yeah. All the cocksucking lynchings of Irish men of strength and vigour was because they was arsking for it. Bloody hell, then the Chink must hae been twiced as bad then.

            2. An empire enslaving and crushing them to death at least an eight as bad as your blessed Muslim was doing to al kuffar in most their milder enclaves.

              1. Your blessed Muslim


                Stunningly brilliant commentary there. I point out violent behaviour of past immigrants that people just seem to accept for some reason (and then ironically accuse me of victim blaming for pointing out said violent behaviour towards innocents).

                Do me a favour Limpee, next call me an Irishophobe, since you’ve got the whole ‘shitheel apologia for violence from groups I like’ down pat.

      2. Got a question for you H.

        If someone came up to you on the street and asked you whether you’d rather live under American law or libertarian law, how would you respond?

        1. You already know how I would respond. But leaving people alone is a hell of a lot different than forcing someone to worship an invisible sky god and to live in a 7th century barbaric society where women are forced into silence and gays are murdered.

          1. Not to them it isn’t.

            You and I live for liberty. They live for their skydaddy. Republicans would choose republican law and Ds would choose D law.

            We are, of course, correct if being free is what you value. They obviously value something different.

  8. Just from a Montreal angle to show the U.S. wasn’t alone:

    For a while, I accepted the ‘it was war’ part of the argument (in Canada historian Jack Granatstein was a proponent of it) but obviously I grew out of it and I fear we’re still capable of such actions. It was, erm, complex. During my research, I discovered while people did join Mussolini groups (Casa d’Italia in Montreal was partially funded by Mussolini while the land was bestowed to the community by the Mayor at the time who was a colorful dictator), it wasn’t because they believed in fascism per se but to be a part of a group or even find ways to get money for start ups. Perhaps it was foolish but to the point of being interned? Not sure.

    Just for reading pleasure:…..cle551227/

      1. Of course. Deep dish wasn’t invented yet.


      2. Canadian-Italians probably make the blandest Italian food on the planet. Big ole wet sloppy plastic bag full of spaghetti in thin tomato sauce. Brown Gravy on the side.

        1. Not the Montreal-Italians.

          We never eat like that. Whatever it is you just described!

          1. Brown gravy on the side.

            Where the heck did you eat? Northern Manitoba?

            1. I wanted to come up with a topping besides parma dust that would be uniquely and disgustingly Canadian but drew a blank, so I just went with gravy because of poutine.

              Maple syrup, maybe?

            2. But the plastic bag is spot on.

          2. I am gonna have to back up Rufus here. There really is no such thing as bad Montreal food. Except for poutine.

        2. Canadian-Italians probably make the blandest Italian food on the planet.

          I’m pretty sure there’s places in the UK that might take you up on that challenge.

          When i was in Nashville, i made a rule = Never eat in a sushi bar run by Mexicans. (again) The same should go for “Italian restaurant in Manchester run by Pakistanis”

          1. “Italian restaurant in Manchester run by Pakistanis”
            Ha. I must be pretty lucky in my town as far as ethnic authenticity goes. My Indian friends complain incessantly about the ‘fraud’ of a nearby Indian restaurant that is actually run by…. Bangladeshis. The horror. I had to explain to him that they don’t really have a choice since most Americans don’t know what Bangladesh is.

          2. But in NY it would work.

          3. Is opposite in West Coast from my XP. Find place with Mexican running kitchen, and it generally better at making whatever kind of etnic foot he sell than if it run by other kind of Man. Further inland, less true, especially for East Asian like the Chinese or the Thai. Evenso, most of this hellhole make shit food American etnic food and serve daily whilst at the same time willing as you please to make even enthusiastic real food of that country if a person arsk for it. No is difficult.

  9. OT
    “UNITED NATIONS ? With the Paris Agreement on climate change poised to take effect, diplomats now head to Morocco to hammer out the difficult details of how to make it work and raise the $100 billion needed each year to meet its ambitious goals.”…..rocco.html

    Hey, guys! How about Marrakesh in November?

  10. Why are FDR’s concentration camps referred to as internment camps? Because they didn’t have showers and ovens? More verbal slight of hand.

    I was too busy yesterday to read and comment on Soave’s “My Pronouns are They!” article. Comedy gold from the SJWs.

    Here is my advice to Robby and a short essay from T. Sowell:

    Fruit Sushi ? We give you a fair amount of grief over your granting concessions to the left’s language demands but I would like to know if your tactic is making any inroads. I suspect it is not because the people you are trying to reach, unlike you, are not operating in good faith.

    Dr. Thomas Sowell, an African-American black man of color and national treasure, from ‘The Thomas Sowell Reader’, page 137:

    1. The Left’s Vocabulary

      A recent angry email from a reader said that certain issues should not be determined by “the dictates of the market”. With a mere turn of a phrase, he had turned reality upside down.

      Decisions by people free to make their mutual accommodations with other free people were called “dictates” while having third parties tell all of them what they could and couldn’t do was not.

      Verbal coups have long been a specialty of the left. Totalitarian countries on the left have called themselves “people’s democracies” and used the egalitarian greeting “comrade” ? even though some comrades had the arbitrary power of life and death over other comrades.

    2. In democratic countries, where public opinion matters, the left has used its verbal talents to change the whole meaning of words and to substitute new words, so that issues would be debated in terms of their redefined vocabulary, instead of the real substance of the issues.

      Words which have acquired connotations from the actual experience of millions of human beings over generations, or even centuries, have been replaced by new words that wipe out those connotations and substitute more fashionable notions of the left.

      The word “swamp” for example, has been all but erased from the language. Swamps were messy, sometimes smelly, places where mosquitoes bred and sometimes snakes lurked. The left has replaced the word “swamp” with “wetlands”, a word spoken in pious tones usually reserved for sacred things.

    3. The point of this verbal slight-of-hand is to impose the left’s notions of how other people can use their own land. Restrictive laws about “wetlands” have imposed huge costs on farmers and other owners of land that happened to have a certain amount of water on it.

      Another word that the left has virtually banished from the language is “bum”. Centuries of experience with idlers who refused to work and who hung around on the streets making a nuisance ? and sometimes a menace ? of themselves were erased from our memories as the left verbally transformed those same people into the sacred icon “the homeless”.

      As with “swamps”, what was once messy and smelly was now turned into something we had a duty to protect. It was now our duty to support people who refused to support themselves.

      Crimes committed by bums are covered up by the media, by verbally transforming “the homeless” into “transients” or “drifters” whenever they commit crimes. Thus “the homeless” are the only group you never hear of committing any crimes.

      1. Another word that the left has virtually banished from the language is “bum”. Centuries of experience with idlers who refused to work and who hung around on the streets making a nuisance ? and sometimes a menace ? of themselves were erased from our memories as the left verbally transformed those same people into the sacred icon “the homeless”.

        There are no “bums” any more. Only people who haven’t been given enough “opportunity” (= other people’s money). It’s hilarious to me because every communist regime has to spend a significant amount of effort dealing with the lumpenproletariat, or in other words, bums. That shitstain american socialist will come around here praising Castro’s Cuba–where bums are shipped off to work camps and treated terribly–while decrying the fact that the government here isn’t handing out enough free shit to our bums.

    4. More to the point, third party’s notions are imposed by the power of government to raise our taxes to support people who are raising hell on our streets and in parks where it has often become too dangerous for our children to play.

      The left has a whole vocabulary devoted to depicting people who do not meet standards as people who have been “denied access”. Whether it is academic standards, job qualifications or credit requirements, those who do not measure up are said to have been deprived of “opportunity”, “rights” or “social justice”.

      The word games of the left ? from the mantra of “diversity” to the pieties of “compassion” ? are not just games. They are ways of imposing power by evading issues through the use of seductive rhetoric.

      “Rights”, for example, have become an all purpose term used both for evading facts and logic by saying that people have a “right” to whatever the left wants to give them by taking from others.

      For centuries, rights were exemptions from government power, as in the Bill of Rights. Now the left has redefined rights as things that can be demanded from the taxpayers, or from private employers or others, on behalf of people who accept no mutual obligations, even for common decency.

    5. At one time, educators tried to teach students to carefully define words and systematically define arguments. They said “We are here to teach you how to think, not what to think.”

      Today they are teaching students what to think ? political correctness. Instead of knowledge students are given “self-esteem”, so that they can vent their ignorance with confidence.

      You will never win by debating anything on their terms or granting them any concessions. Sowell, an African American black man of color, is a heavy hitter because he is plain spoken and goes right to the issue of substance.

      *As usual I highly recommend anything by Sowell. In this case it is The Thomas Sowell Reader, a collection of ninety seven one and two page essays, every one of which is pure gold. Buy his book.

      1. Amen.

        /short pause.

        Are you gonna post your recipe for dirty rice or not?

        1. Dirty Rice to make you slap your mama:

          acquire a microwave rice cooker. Put one cup of (I prefer Basmati) uncooked rice, two cups of water, two chicken bullion cubes, a tablespoon of butter, and one to one a half teaspoons of basil. Fresh basil is better, but dried will do.

          Microwave on high for 15 minutes. Make two batches of this and put aside in a large bowl.

          *caution: Just the rice cooked this way is so freaking delicious you may end up eating it before you prepare the meats. Cover it and put it out of sight and smell.

          Brown one pound of ground beef and drain liquid. Add in one pound of Richard’s dressing mix (chicken giblets already cooked) or cook one pound of your own giblets. I have also been known to substitute chicken livers for the giblets. I like it but some find it a bit too livery tasting.

          Finely chop one medium sweet onion and one medium bell pepper (I prefer yellow) . Finer is better. Cook until soft. It can be done quickly in the microwave…one to two minutes depending on your microwave.

          1. Add all of this into the rice and stir until homogenous. Sprinkle one tablespoon of Cayenne pepper and one cup of chopped chives or fresh chopped green onion tops over the rice mixture and stir well. (You cant add too many green onions)

            My wife likes to add in jalepenos sometimes. I like to melt cheddar over the top of my bowl. There are a lot of variations on this recipe. Try this link for ideas on how to make yours the way you like –


            Scroll down the alphabetic list to Dirty Rice. You can use chicken, beef, pork or whatever you like.

            1. This doesnt have to be just a side dish, we have been known to eat it as a main course. Just serve up a big bowl and plop down in front of the TV. Be careful, it is easy to keep eating until you cant get up.

              1. Note: I forgot…I am kind of a low salt guy. If you like you can sprinkle the cayenne and a little salt on your beef after you drain the meat and stir it in before mixing with the rice. Some may find sticking to my recipe strictly won’t be salty enough.

    6. “Why are FDR’s concentration camps referred to as internment camps? Because they didn’t have showers and ovens? More verbal slight of hand.”

      I’m not excusing FDR. Like a lot of Heroes of the Left, the man was an appalling racist and general swine. But, thanks to a certain Austrian Corporal, the term ‘Concentration Camp’ has connotations of starvation, rampant disease, and brutal work regimes. And as bad as the Internment Cams were from a civil rights – or just plain moral – perspective they weren’t that. This isn’t verbal slight of hand, it’s a distinction. We wronged the Japanese-Americans and German-Americans, but we didn’t stuff them into death camps, starve them, beat them, and leave them to rot. FDR was an swine, but not a monster.

      1. “The Train…” makes that clear; the inmates were locked in, but there were serious efforts to make that as comfortable as possible; a swimming pool, for example.

      2. I’ve met a lot of state loving Japanese people(can’t call them leftists or progs) over the years who point out the relocation of Japanese during the war as if it is on par with what happened in Nanking or Bataan. Even the Memorial in Hiroshima reads “Never Again”. “Never Again” what? Getting N bombed again? The left in the U.S. will pump out the propaganda about how evil the U.S. was and that in turn gets regurgitated here. If your going to go after FDR, go after him for turning a recession into a depression and prolonging it at least 8 years.

        1. I lived in Washington DC for several years, and every year (usually during summer) somebody would proceed to have a very public cow about the Enola Gay exhibit at the Air And Space Museum. I always thought that the right thing to do was put up a banner in Japanese, saying “You rape Nanking again, we bomb you again, capisce?”.

        2. I’ve met a lot of state loving Japanese people(can’t call them leftists or progs) over the years who point out the relocation of Japanese during the war as if it is on par with what happened in Nanking or Bataan.

          If 10-15% of the relocated Japanese had died en-route from abuse/execution for failing to keep up pace during forced marches…. and then 100,000 or so were raped/beheaded for entertainment purposes by bored American officers… i suppose they might have a point.

          The book Koba the Dread is a very good read in general; but its especially good in its very long preamble which discusses people’s habit of constantly putting historical sins in the same moral bucket – sort of a epic-historical “Boys Will Be Boys” sort of thinking – which applies a “well, X did it *too*” weight to any judgement of Y’s historical behavior, offsetting and excusing what they’d prefer to write off as ‘excesses’. “These sorts of things happened”. It allows people to avoid really thinking about the specifics… the types & manner of inhumanity that they’re excusing… avoids focusing on what made them *different*, rather than ‘the same’ as everyone else’s sins. In the case of Stalinism, it was that it wasn’t just an oppressor state like the Japs in China, or Nazis in Poland doing all these nasty things to people – it was that people did it to each other; that the “Denunciations” were neighbor against neighbor, child against parent, etc.

          1. Japan, as with much of East Asia, is all about saving face. You surrender, you may as well have not even fought in the first place. Post war Japan had to psychologically adjust and this tu quoque was simply a coping mechanism for dealing with the unbearable. Of course they should just own up to what the Imperial Army did in China and Korea, but I’d argue that the cultural attitudes they had embraced over centuries made apologizing much more difficult psychologically than it would, for example, America in a similar situation. Not justifying their obvious dismissal of historical facts, just trying to explain why they act the way they do.

            1. the cultural attitudes they had embraced over centuries made apologizing much more difficult psychologically than it would, for example, America

              We on the other hand, have made historical self-flagellation into a National Pastime.

              i continue to think one of the few good jokes i’ve ever made off the top of my head was, when discussing the Rape of Nanking, i said,

              “The Japanese see it like this:

              – First off, it never really happened
              – Second, they deserved it.

              That’s probably not exactly right, as i’ve only ever read secondhand versions of Japanese self-exculpation / their continued stubbornness about … what’s it called, the tomb where the war criminals are buried, which the PM always has to visit? etc. that sort of thing. But i still think its funny.

              1. Yasukuni shrine. Never actually set foot inside myself. Creepy mix of xenophobia and nationalism. Also, there is something to be said for a culture that prefers death to dishonor. (Not the dishonor of your daughter being raped and her being killed). Imagine if the Japanese ever took liberty and the motto, “Live Free or Die” to heart. That would be a libertarian moment.

          2. Gilmore-

            When I was in 6th grade in Westerville, Ohio in the mid 70’s, I got a paper route. I had one old dude that subscribed who asked me to put his paper on the rack below his mailbox instead of just tossing it on his porch because he had bad hips. Good old guy, always had a funny/slightly dirty joke to tell, and he also tipped well. I always thought of him as “Professor John” (his name in my collection book was “John Rowland”) because he had two walls of bookshelves from floor to ceiling right off the front room, and there were always 2 or 3 books lying open on different tables when I went to collect.

            Then in 8th grade History, we had a guest speaker about a historic event… and it was “Prof. John”.

            I then found out he was this John Rowland.

      3. You have a point but ‘Death camps’ vs ‘concentration camps’ is enough distinction for me. The same form of imprisonment but with different goals in mind.

        As far as I am concerned FDR stripped the US of moral authority. I get pretty pissed thinking about it. There really is no good case for drag netting and putting natural born citizens in concentration camps based on their ancestry. If you find a spy, try them and hang ’em.

        As far as I can remember there were less than half a dozen japs that acted against the US and none of them were native born. The only germans were nazi agents inserted into the country by submarine and none of these were able to inflict any serious damage.

        1. And a few Saudis. Turns out we’re at greater risk these days from our own law enforcement and private security industries.

          1. Except that none of the terrorists who worked for private security firms received any endorsement or legal support from their employers for their acts of terrorism. There is no “threat” from the private security industry.

        2. Quibbles about language aside, I think we can all agree that FDR was a dictatorial bastard who pushed the country in a lot of bad directions and put a bunch of nails in the coffin of constitutional government.

        3. The food they served half Japanese, half African Americans in those camps was awful.

          1. *snort* I laughed

        4. Didn’t William Shirer write something about the Nazis having the terms Konzentrationslager for the early camps like Dachau and Vernichtungslager for Auschwitz et al.?

        5. The thing that, to my mind, really stripped us of any moral authority was the Neuremburg trials. The idea of having a high-minded trial of the Nazis with representatives of Stalin sitting in the court is revolting. We would have done better to shoor everybody we wanted to and inscribe “when you lose a war, bad things happen to you” on the mass grave.

      4. Yeah, “internment” isn’t exactly full of positive connotations. For the reasons you state, I think making the distinction is appropriate. Whether or not it’s reasonable, most people are going to associate “concentration camps” with the Holocaust.

      5. I’d say he was a monster, just not of the same caliber. Keep in mind that we’re not usually talking about FDR compared to Hitler and Mussolini; we’re talking about him in comparison to other US presidents. And as far has human rights against American citizens goes, among presidents, he has no equal.

        It’s not just the internment camps either. If ever I doubt how bad FDR was, I imagine a rereading of The Grapes of Wrath would adequately remind me.

    7. Why are FDR’s concentration camps referred to as internment camps? Because they didn’t have showers and ovens? More verbal slight of hand.

      Because they were internment camps, not concentration camps? Concentration camps are intended to use forced labour and extreme torture to slowly grind down and wipe out a population, or murder them very rapidly via mass executions. That was not the intention of the American or Canadian governments, containment was, and it should be discussed in that context.

      And it’s not like internment camps were fun places that were run efficiently or morally.

      Though I get the point about not engaging the left on their terms, but being overly emotional and hyperbolic doesn’t help your argument either. Then everyone just turns into Hitler and no one cares anymore, Chicken Little.

    8. Why are FDR’s concentration camps referred to as internment camps? Because they didn’t have showers and ovens?

      Yeah! They were dirty & the food was cold!

    9. Why are FDR’s concentration camps referred to as internment camps? Because they didn’t have showers and ovens? More verbal slight of hand.

      Because they represent yet another heinous sin of the Left we must downplay the similarities.

      With slavery, eugenics and the KKK hung around their necks, they’re growing weary with the guilt they carry.

      But one day, it will be over. One day, they’ll find a way to pin the whole thing on white republicans. They’re already trying to turn an executive order and a law passed by a Democrat controlled Congress into a ‘bipartisan law’

  11. On topic:
    When I was in the service in Japan, I met a re-pat Japanese who spoke Spanish. He was from Peru, and if you read the book, you’ll know how he got to Japan.
    He didn’t seem to be anti-American, but I sure would have been if I’d been in his shoes.
    The book is recommended.

    1. The Japanese in general never seem anywhere near as anti-American as they have a right to be. I’ve always foudn that a little curious. maybe it’s just because they’re just that nice. Maybe General MacArthur really left a great impression of us during the occupation, or they save their apprehension for China or something, idk. It’s fascinating that they have such a positive image of America compared to some countries that hate the US that the US never even did anything to.

      1. A right to be?!

        Pearl Harbor, fuckers.

  12. Dr. Thomas Sowell, an African-American black man of color and national treasure, from ‘The Thomas Sowell Reader’, page 137:

    I clicked the link and it said “comment reported as spam”. That’s a rather succinct Sowell essay, but as usual nails it with regards to whatever the Left is saying.

    1. Which link?

  13. “The full story of that exchange is at once so heartbreaking and so uplifting I won’t spoil it here…”
    He means he never finished reading the book.

  14. And don’t send your children to North Africa to battle or rebuild if you’re going to cry when we don’t trade them for cash or internees (Guantanamo or otherwise).

  15. ‘While The Train to Crystal City is a marvelous accomplishment, it does contain several small errors of fact. […] Taken as a whole, though, such shortcomings are far outweighed by the blistering indictment delivered by Russell’s reportage.’

    Yeah. The message is what’s important. Fuck facts. Some of those are pretty astonishingly severe pinkadilloes.

  16. Everything is so politicized these days.

    Can you not even bring up how pathetic the internment camps were without the Islamophobes coming out of the woodwork claiming that you’re being unfair to the righteous cause of Islamophobia?

    On the other hand, social justice lumbersexuals want to point to internment as further evidence that America is inherently racist, capitalist, and evil–and shouldn’t patriotic people everywhere be ashamed of themselves?

    I’m tempted to say that Islamophobes and social justice warriors deserve each other, but I guess the truth is that we’ve actually progressed from the way things used to be.

    The reason Darth Cheney and company didn’t intern Muslims by the thousands wasn’t because of the warmness in their hearts; it’s presumably because they surmised that the American people wouldn’t put up with it. Meanwhile, patriotic Americans everywhere became as patriotic as they’ve ever been in response to 9/11–and to plenty of Americans, patriotism meant rallying around things like the Bill of Rights . . . much to the chagrin of social justice warriors.

    1. “On the other hand, social justice lumbersexuals want to point to internment as further evidence that America is inherently racist, capitalist, and evil–and shouldn’t patriotic people everywhere be ashamed of themselves?”

      That is what I meant by FDR stripping us of our moral authority. It was unnecessary and It gives ammo to those dumbasses.

      1. If they didn’t have this, they’d have the Trail of Tears, the American occupation of the Philippines and the various atrocities of the Indian Wars to use. FDR didn’t strip you of your moral authority, your government did that a long time ago.

  17. It’s sort of like the argument on gay marriage. You’d think it was a battle between Christians, on the one hand, and religious rights violating social justice warriors, on the other, but the truth is that a majority of both Catholics and mainline Protestants support gay marriage.

    There’s some kind of cognitive bias that focuses our attention on the loudest voices and makes it seem as though the loudest voices are representative of the whole. It’s so tempting to think that half of America hates the First Amendment like an Islamophobe and the other half hate the First Amendment like a social justice warrior. The truth is that most Americans are neither cowards nor unpatriotic. They’re just neither as obsessed nor as vocal about it.

  18. So, the FBI did another document dump last night. I’m sure like before they’ll claim they just released when everything was done, and no political shenanigans were involved. No siree – to even suggest the FBI is politically motivated is insulting to them!

    But the big takeaway from it all is that Obama was using a pseudonym to message Hillary on her private server. The State Department refuses to release any emails sent by Obama to Hillary, but this was referenced in a message to Huma. Why would Obama be using a pseudonym? Hm…I wonder.

    I’m sure we’ll hear plenty over the next week on how Obama lied to the country! Hahaha. I crack myself up here…

    1. Maybe his pseudonym was “The Mufti”.

      If everything’s just speculation now, my first guess is that Obama is too smart to have emailed anything to Hillary that she might have been able to use to blackmail him.

      He was smart enough to cover his ass with that ethics agreement on foreign donations to the Clinton Foundation.

      It’d be surprising if Obama were smart enough to cover his ass with that ethics agreement but dumb enough to email her something she could potentially use against him.

      1. He was using a pseudonym to email his Secretary of State on her not-so-secret private server. Was he using a secure device? Was his device hacked by those pesky Russians? Do the Russians know everything?

        1. What difference, at this point, does it make?

          . . . unless it was about Clinton Foundation business.

    2. This guy and his lack of a link:

      In an April 5, 2016 interview with the FBI, Abedin was shown an email exchange between Clinton and Obama, but the longtime Clinton aide did not recognize the name of the sender.

      “Once informed that the sender’s name is believed to be pseudonym used by the president, Abedin exclaimed: ‘How is this not classified?'” the report says. “Abedin then expressed her amazement at the president’s use of a pseudonym and asked if she could have a copy of the email.”

      The State Department has refused to make public that and other emails Clinton exchanged with Obama. Lawyers have cited the “presidential communications privilege,” a variation of executive privilege, in order to withhold the messages under the Freedom of Information Act.

      The report doesn’t provide more details on the contents of that particular email exchange, but says it took place on June 28, 2012, and had the subject line: “Re: Congratulations.” It may refer to the Supreme Court’s ruling that day upholding a key portion of the Obamacare law.

    3. Whoa there Brochett…Obama only found out about Cankles private server when we did…when it was announced on the news.

  19. I read that book and I *totally* recommend it – it’s a well-told human drama.

    As to Miranda rights, those apply when the police are questioning you about a *crime.* Being an enemy alien, or a citizen related to an enemy alien, is a *status* – when you got picked up for it you weren’t being charged with a crime. Hence the controversy.

    The internment controversy raises two problems: the internment of citizens without trial – which IMHO is unconstitutional unless there’s been a legitimate suspension of habeas corpus – and the internment of the citizens of enemy countries without trial – more justifiable legally IMHO (though less relevant today when the aliens who get interned are citizens of *friendly* countries).

    And here is an interesting tidbit: “Since at least the mid-1940s, [FBI director J. Edgar Hoover] had required FBI agents to advise suspects of their privilege to remain silent and to have an attorney present during any questioning.” The FBI even filed a brief in the Miranda case talking about their agency’s ability to fight crime will still giving what would soon be called Miranda warnings.

    1. Likewise, if Mom and Dad are enemy aliens and the underage kid is a citizen, then the kid living with Mom and Dad doesn’t *add* to the alleged badness of internment, but perhaps ameliorates things a bit.

    2. The Founders, while disagreeing as to the nationals of *friendly* countries, agreed that it was constitutional to expel the nationals of an enemy country.

      In his Report on the Virginia Resolutions, Madison said the law for expelling, without trial, the nationals of friendly countries, violated the Constitution. Madison also said that the law for expelling, without trial, the nationals of *enemy* countries, was totally constitutional.

      “the act of Congress, for the removal of alien enemies, being conformable to the law of nations, is justified by the Constitution: and the “act,” for the removal of alien friends, being repugnant to the constitutional principles of municipal law, is unjustifiable.” (p. 206)

      “friends” and “enemies” in this context refers to the countries of which the person is a national. So if we’re at war with a country, that countries nationals are alien enemies and can constitutionally be expelled without trial.

      1. Vattel, the Founders’ favorite writer on the Law of Nations, said:

        “When the sovereign or ruler of the state declares war against another sovereign…these two nations are enemies, and all the subjects of the one are enemies to all the subjects of the other….Whilst a man continues a citizen of his own country, he is the enemy of all those with whom his nation is at war.”

  20. The media keep calling the mall shooter in Seattle “Hispanic”.

    How do they know he’s Hispanic?

    Are they saying he looks Hispanic?

    Did he drive off in a lowered El Camino?

    Was there a lawnmower in the back?

    Does he have a tattoo of the Virgin of Guadalupe?

    Calling him “Hispanic” on the basis of a grainy photo seems kind of racist.

    1. Being a raging Islamophobe the first thing that pops in my head is that they are desperate not to say the unsayable.

      How about this? We don’t know who he is at this point. Let’s just call him ‘an unidentified man’.

      I think we all know how it will probably shake out. Cankles poll numbers are going to go into free-fall at some point.

      1. They have to protect the ethnicity most hostile to the traditional West. Sorry Hispanics, it’s your turn to get thrown under the greivance bus.

    2. They did the same thing in the CA terrorists attack. In the one picture I see of the shooter, the guy looks middle eastern to me, not Hispanic. The media are shameless.

    3. I’m surprised they tried to call him Hispanic. They should’ve said he looked ‘Sicilian.’ That way he’s technically white. And you can always use that one because Sicilians are basically just Arabs with better food anyway.

  21. Ok, typing out that dirty rice recipe made me hungry. I mentioned to my wife that I might like to have that for supper.

    “Last night I dreamed about eating tacos and woke up craving them. Can we have tacos instead?”

    Now I am craving them as well so I will be making my black bean dip later for the tacos.

    Black Bean Dip recipe:

    One 15 oz can of unseasoned black beans
    1/4 or so chopped sweet onion
    one chicken bullion cube
    2 or 3 thick slices of bacon microwaved until cooked but still soft plus the bacon grease
    optional: 2 oz can of green chiles
    one teaspoon of cayenne pepper

    Put all ingredients in blender and blend to re-fried bean consistency. Place in small baking dish. cover and bake in oven until top is firm and bubbling around the edges (30-40 minutes at 400 degrees).

    Blend grated cheddar or Mexican blend cheese with generous amount of chopped black olives. Sprinkle cheese over the top of the bean dip until you have a solid layer of cheese. Let it melt.

    After the cheese is melted put fresh chopped onion, chopped tomato, and chopped jalepeno on top.

    You can just use corn chips to dip from the bowl. You can also not dress it and just put the bean dip as a base layer in your taco, taco salad, burrito or whatever.

    1. *Black beans are much heartier than other beans in both substance and taste. This is truly a case of ‘once you go black…’.

  22. US military fires two top generals – one of whom was having an extramarital affair and living rent-free in home of businessman with ties to arms firms

    Brig. Gen. Michael Bobeck, an Army National Guard general on the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was fired after an internal investigation found that he had been having an affair, according to USA Today.

    Engaging in an extramarital affair is a violation of military rules.

    Bobeck was also found to have lived rent-free in an apartment owned by an executive from a company that has links to arms contractors who conduct business with the Department of Defense.

    Meanwhile, the Army also announced on Friday that Maj. Gen. Wayne Grigsby, the commander of the 1st Infantry Division at Fort Riley, Kansas, was dismissed, according to USA Today.

    The military, however, did not specify the reason for the dismissal.

    Last month, US Army Maj. Gen. David Haight was fired after leading a decade-long double life including an affair and a ‘swinger lifestyle’ with multiple partners and sex parties, leaving him at risk of blackmail.

    The Army has a new official song.

  23. All right, I’m just gonna say it: you know who else put people in camps?

    1. Lavrentiy Beria?

    2. Deer season?

      1. ”Baden-Powell”
        Fk me, that’s funny.

    3. My mom, when she needed my brother and I out of the house?

    4. Lord Kitchener?

  24. Hey, guys, are you psyched for Hillary’s charm offensive

    “The real Hillary Clinton ? the funny, kind, passionate woman her friends and colleagues insist actually exists ? has been missing from public view for so long that even some of her most admiring defenders wonder whether she will ever emerge again.

    “On the eve of the first presidential debate, Clinton’s campaign is launching a drive to convince voters that she is, well, human. The move, coming just six weeks before the election, is a frank admission that whether it traces to her embarrassingly public marital traumas, or to the arrows aimed at her during the White House years by conservative activists and news reports, or to a lifetime playing the role of the serious, responsible daughter, sister and wife, Hillary Clinton still struggles to be even “likable enough,” as candidate Barack Obama put it during the 2008 campaign.”

    Yes, the reason people don’t like her is that conservatives have been mean to her and she’s spent a lifetime handling serious responsibilities.

    1. Oh, and Bill’s fault for being a cheating little tramp.

    2. I love the Joe Biden commercial for Hillary where he talks about how much he’s looking forward to the nation seeing her.

      Every time I see her ads I think of that Nietzsche quote: ‘A nation is just a detour to six or seven great men.’ Hillary seems to share this sort of attitude that the country exists to aggrandize her. I wonder how she’s respond if someone tried to tell her the president is there for the sake of the country, not the other way around.

      1. How about Obumbles? I bet he would turn red in the face, grind his teeth and throw a punch at you.I bet his punching skills are on par with his pitching skills. It would be hilarious watching someone duck and back out of every punch while they laughed at him.

  25. Has this been discussed?

    “Hillary Clinton Vows 65% Estate Tax To Donald Trump’s Repeal”…..b71b3e5bf7

    This is, of course, signaling to the Bernibros and will collect zero additional revenue from ‘the rich’. Instead it will be a hell of a blow to the middle class.

    1. The Donald tweeted something about that position being the one that will make him win. He said all the never trumps, the moderates, the elderly. All will flock!

      I think he might have a point on that one.

      1. I would think so. The rates are lower for lower income people but if you have a family business or own land you are fucked six ways from sunday.

    2. That caused Scott Adams to switch his endorsement to Trump.

      1. Adams was always clear that his “endorsement” of Hillary was purely for his own personal safety, living as he does in CA.

        1. I realize that his earlier “endorsement” was tongue-in-cheek.

  26. Gary Johnson’s Surprising Stands On Social Security And Health Care

    “…probe a little deeper into Johnson’s positions and the proposals verge on the radical, compared to our current health care system. He’d essentially abolish most health insurance and would eliminate any government involvement in health care….

    “Critics of the proposal to let people buy health insurance across state lines ? such as Frank Lalli, author of Your Best Health Care Now ? say that it would likely lead health insurers to simply sell policies nationwide from the state allowing the worst policies. Lalli says they’d be “Swiss cheese plans full of holes.””

    1. As if the Bronze plans aren’t Swiss cheese?

    2. And everyone would be forced to buy that bad insurance, because reasons.

    3. So you are supporting him now?

      1. No, just bashing the media.

        Don’t send me you “Feel the Johnson” T-shirt yet.

  27. I was just leafing through the National Socialist Program, and I found a few interesting tidbits:

    – We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens.
    – Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.
    – … personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore, we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
    – We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.
    – We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
    -We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation
    -Common national criminals, usurers, profiteers and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of -confession or race.
    – The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions.

    Remind me again why Nazis are considered right wing?

    1. -because they bamboozled many people into thinking they were the best antidote to communism

      -because the Communists made a major propaganda campaign about how the Nazis were simply the shock troops of the capitalist oppressors

    2. In university I managed to convince people to support 90% of the 1932 NSDAP platform by replacing every ‘Germans’ with ‘the people’ and every ‘Jew’ with ‘the 1%’.

    3. Because leftists here don’t want to be associated with the guilt of nazism, even though they are fellow travelers. Just like they are all sticking their heads in the sand now over Venezuela and how many of them try to disassociate leftism from Maoism and Stalinism.

      This is where the ‘its wasn’t real socialism’ meme comes from.

    4. Mainly because of the militarism and the racism thing. To a classical anti-segregation, anti-war 1920s/1930s liberal they probably looked ‘right wing.’ But between Obama/Clinton militarism and race/gender collectivism of the SJWs, getting kinda hard to tell the difference anymore.

      1. On a related note, classical liberalism and laissez-faire capitalism weren’t always seen as “right-wing” positions. Moreover, when the vast majority of a population accepts some nontrivial degree of socialism as an innate good, then the nationalist-internationalist split is no longer an internecine battle but instead becomes the totality of the political spectrum.

      2. The anti-segregation movements were comprised of Republicans. Not Democrats. The Klan was big with Democrats in the 20s.

    5. Well they aren’t called National Socialists for nothing. An intellectually honest defense of why they aren’t quite left-wing, if such a thing is possible, might hinge on the fact that, in practice, they emphasized the nationalism, racism, and warmongering more than the socialism.

      1. they emphasized the nationalism, racism, and warmongering more than the socialism.

        So they were just like Woodrow Wilson and FDR? Very right-wing…

    6. Right wing means religious–especially as socialists go. This was the reason Orwell admitted nobody would own to a definition of fascism. But look at as many cases as you like and what glares back at you is that the NSDAP Program and Mein Kampf both dripped Christian propaganda (see as did Goebbels’ and most other nationalsocialists’ screed. Republicans were butthurt because the bad American Liberal party taught the Dems how to draft a repeal plank and elect FDR. So God’s Own Prohibitionists continued to support the Hitler regime against the competing communist religion, as they had when Herb Hoover was pushing the Moratorium on War Debts and Reparations. Reading the GOP Platform today is just like leafing through Mein Kampf.
      Perhaps the Dems will learn from the LP how to write a repeal plank…

  28. “As Charlotte descended into chaos, Robin Roberts of “Good Morning America” described the riots as “young people rising up and showing their frustrations” as she interviewed President Barack Obama.

    “Here are some ways these “young people” in Charlotte demonstrated their “frustrations”:

    “1.) Damaging Businesses…

    “2.) Assaulting A Reporter…

    “3.) Trying To Set A Reporter On Fire…

    “4.) Injuring Police Officers…

    “5.) Injuring Each Other…

    “6.) Damaging Police Property…

    “7.) Ruining Fundraising Event [for a health-care charity]…

    “8.) Assaulting White Bystanders…”

  29. OT: file under “how not to get your ass kicked by the police”

    Short version: minor accident between black teen on bike and old white guy in car. Police called to take report. Black teen refuses to show ID and attempts to flee. Cops cuff teen who screams and fights them. Teen eventually stuffed in cop car but won’t move legs so door can be closed. Cops pepper spray teen. Of course, the newspaper story is all about how racist cops harassed a poor black girl for no reason at all.

    There are plenty of examples of clear-cut police abuse. However, I think the more common situation is that police resort to force when dealing with drunk, violent, crazy, and/or stupid people. I think the main reason cops get so much leeway in the use of force is that people recognize that the police deal with unpleasant and dangerous people so everyone else doesn’t have to.

    1. The problem to me, and it’s not really being addressed by the “racism” narrative, is that the police often seem to be utterly incapable of de-escalating a situation. It doesn’t usually get to lethal force, and no doubt this incident would have played out differently if the girl had just calmed the fuck down and cooperated, but it is also blatantly obvious that the police don’t give a fuck about you, they only care about compliance. Either you comply immediately or they escalate force until you do.

      Unfortunately, the “racism” narrative is only going to make this worse. The message being sent to the “black community” is increasingly “the police are out to get you” and not “if you just STFU for half a goddamn minute, things will work out a lot better for you”. One can criticize the brutishness of the police while also pointing out that having a bad attitude is not going to help the situation.

      Unless and until the incentives behind these two linked issues starts to change, there won’t be any improvement.

      1. It seems that arrestees know that they can play to the crowd – screaming and saying you’re being oppressed – and sympathizers will collect around you, commiserating about how this poor black girl is being hounded for being black.

        1. Let’s see how CNN portrays it

          They manage to describe the girl’s combative behavior, and even push back against the victimization narrative:

          “When asked by a reporter if the teen acted appropriately in dealing with the police, the girl’s mother suggested that the situation “could have been handled better (by her daughter),” but added: “I don’t know that she was even in the right frame of mind.””

          I guess the good news is the girl finally (if belatedly) agreed to contact her parents!

          1. And speaking of leaving the scene of an accident, guess which famous auto accident will have its own Hollywood movie?

            “[Jim] Gaffigan will play District Attorney Paul Markham and [Olivia] Thirlby will portray a member of the so called “boiler room girls” ? a group of single women who attended the party preceding the accident on Chappaquiddick Island.”

            1. Coulter’s best quip: Ted Kennedy is the only politician with a confirmed kill in the war on women.

        2. The police do the exact same thing, oddly enough. “Stop resisting!” gets chanted like a totem of protection.

      2. It’s hard to calm down someone who’s pissed off or crazy, even if you actually know how. The only hope I see is to reduce the number of encounters people have with police, and the only way to do that is to reduce the number of laws. There is very little public support for repealing laws unfortunately.

        What a lot of people don’t get is that every law, no matter how minor, is a reason for the police to arrest, beat up, or kill somebody. They also fail to realize that a lot of people don’t care about things like missing a plate sticker or selling loose cigarettes. Most laws boil down to enforcing the preferences of soccer moms and geezers.

        1. In this case, the law has to do with collisions on the public roadway – which laws should only be repealed when roadways are privatized – if then.

          1. I’ve raised plenty of eyebrows by suggesting the repeal of traffic laws and signs. I like to show this picture of this intersection in Ethiopia:


            People aren’t ramming into each other. They’re paying attention and taking turns. It’s not hard.

            I like Stossel’s analogy of the skating rink. He puts Brian Boitano in charge:


            One time, I was talking to some guy in Chicago who was gathering signatures to run for alderman or something. His pitch was he wanted to ban guns in bars. I told him that’s already illegal in Chicago and in any case, Chicago has enough gun laws already. He then sneered that I must be one of those awful libertarians who would repeal traffic laws and then there’d be flaming wrecks everywhere from all the potheads driving around at 100 mph.

            1. Dude, you can’t do that in Murika because people will shit their pants and call on the government to DO SOMETHING!

              In MD, no one obeys traffic laws, period. Except for people out of state. If you see someone obeying traffic laws, you know they are from out of state.

              In Brazil, it’s sort of like that video, only with traffic lights. But there are a LOT of accidents.

              1. I think the main factor in traffic accidents are cultural attitudes. The reason there are so many accidents in Russia is because people there drive like nuts. And the reason they drive like nuts is because there was so little freedom during the Soviet era that everyone sort of went berserk when they finally got a little freedom. It’s like a bunch of college freshmen drinking until they pass out their first weekend at college.

                1. “And the reason they drive like nuts is”

                  …that they’re nuts?

                  1. Or maybe the reason rhymes with “mod car.”

                2. I thought they drove like nuts because of all the drinking, the shitty cars not worth maintaining, the shittier poverty-stricken lives also not really worth maintaining, and the concomitant apathetic nihilism?

                  Not to mention that the traffic cops over there probably just assign fault to whoever gives the smaller bribe.

            2. In this case it wasn’t a question of traffic signs – there was a collision between a bike and a truck. There would presumably be laws against that sort of thing even if there weren’t any road signs.

            3. Italy is a lot like that. The best analogy I can come up with is that driving in Rome (or any other large Italian city) is like being in a school of fish.

        2. What a lot of people don’t get is that every law, no matter how minor, is a reason for the police to arrest, beat up, or kill somebody.

          I wish we could pound this through people’s thick skulls. There was a story awhile back about a woman killed for unpaid parking tickets. Parking. Tickets.

          Unpaid tickets eventually generate an arrest warrant, etc.

          Every law, no matter how minor, has an implied “failure to obey” clause. The penalty for failure to obey is the same for every law – assault, imprisonment, and/or death.

          1. You don’t have to even break a law to be legally murdered. All you have to do is be in close vicinity of cops on any given day.

            1. That’s just what we need on this commentarium: more paranoia.

      3. Infusing race into the issue completely ruined any possibility of improvement. Police can now (fairly accurately) claim innocence of the problem because it’s not really racism (as most studies confirm, just black people being more likely to interact with police, due to disproportionately committing crimes and whatnot), but rather some of them just being indiscriminately assholes.

        Meanwhile, more black people get convinced that cops are waging a war on them and decide to be less cooperative and more belligerent, thereby ensuring more ‘incidents.’

        Which is basically a win/win for the grievance industry as it is essentially a self-perpetuating grievance.

  30. High school teacher shoehorns Trump criticism and other political views into lesson about rhetoric:

  31. OT:

    Do you think that flying or levitating vehicles will ever obviate the need for those precious ROADZZ?

    1. No. Not without some near-magical, cheap and efficient anti-gravity breakthrough.

    2. Larry Niven did a short story about a time when teleportation portals replaced other forms of transportation.

    3. Flying and levitating vehicles, no because flying vehicles are prohibitively expensive from an energy cost standpoint and if levitation were possible without some sort of road surface track below it, it would also be cost prohibitive from an energy cost standpoint.

      The threat to roads would come from vehicles traveling through pneumatic tubes. Such a system obviating the need for surface level real estate has been touted as one of its advantages since pneumatic tube transportation systems were first designed and built–before the Wright brothers took flight at Kitty Hawk.

      1. Pneumatic_tube#In_public_transportation

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  33. Angry protesters in Chicago try to shut down gas station owned by immigrants. It must be a bunch of racist Trump supporters. The media will love this!

    It’s black people doing it? Oh, well maybe not then.

    DEY TUCK ERR JERBS- Not just for rednecks anymore!

  34. Progressive hero FDR, he was the good guy,… RIGHT?

    At all costs, as most progressive agemda are, has extreme human costs.

    1. But he meant well, isn’t that what counts for the prog?

  35. My housemate’s father was a missionary in Japan, and one of those exchanged internees/prisoners. He later ministered to Japanese Christians in an Arkansas camp, and at one point they lived inside the camp (where her sister was born). As it happens, the school he taught at in Japan (which my housemate later taught in as well) was in Kokura and became an army HQ during the war; it may have been the intended target of the second bomb (Nagasaki was the alternate target, bombed because of the cloudy weather over Kokura).

  36. “Not that we shouldn’t lock up or better yet deport American Muslims, amiright? All right-thinking people recognize the clear and present danger of having an alien religion in our midst, one that wants to subvert the Constitution and force our womenfolk to wear unflattering bathing attire on America’s Hard-Working Beaches. If Muslims want to be Americans they must renounce…”

    I demand a better quality of troll! Who’s with me here?

  37. FDR = a hero to Cheney & Trump!

  38. FDR = a hero to Cheney & Trump!

  39. This asset-forfeiture bidness goes way back to before the Crash of 1929 heralded the Great Depression of Herbert Hooverville Hoover. Things got hot after the US v. Sullivan case in 1927 did away with 4th, 5th and 6th Amendment protections. They had to go if the 16th and 18th Amendments were to remain in the Constitution. Indeed, the flash crash of May 6, 2010 was a reaction to DEA/IRS seizures of bank accounts belonging to Colombian citizens, not long after similar seizures caused the 2007 asset forfeiture Crash and Depression. Attempts to explain it away never mention looting narcs and kleptocracy agents at all.

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