Rape

USC Campus Rape Lawsuit: This Title IX Official's Vulgar Response Is Unbelievable

Male student was essentially found guilty of rape because he submitted his text messages in the wrong order.

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USC
Dreamstime

A male University of Southern California student expelled for sexual assault appealed the decision on grounds that the adjudication process was wholly inadequate and stacked against him from the start. USC's Title IX coordinator responded with shocking hostility—bureaucrats don't like when their authority is questioned, it seems.

"Does that college motherfucker know who I am?" USC Title IX Director Gretchen Dahlinger Means asked Title IX Investigator Patrick Noonan, after a conference call during which the student, "John Doe," had explained his intention to appeal. It was a hot mic moment: Dahlinger and Noonan thought the student and his lawyer had already exited the call.

That was not the only outburst. Means also said, "Who do those motherfuckers think they are?" in reference to the student and his lawyer, who had asked for USC to release the identities of the panel members who had voted to expel Doe. The administrators did not merely refuse this request; they were apparently incredulous that such a request had been made at all—that a student could possibly have the gall to ask for some basic transparency with respect to the Kafka-esque procedure that ruined his life.

The venomous statements of USC's Title IX team give this case a unique flavor, though the rest of the details make for a textbook Title IX dispute: spurned female student, bad breakup, after-the-fact accusation, total absence of due process, predetermined finding of responsibility. Doe recently filed suit against USC, and a state court issued a stay preventing his expulsion from going into effect. As KC Johnson writes, "On this record, it's not hard to see why." (Special thanks to Johnson for providing the relevant court documents.)

Doe began dating a female student, "Jane Roe," in the fall of 2015. According to his lawsuit, Doe told her that he did not want an exclusive relationship. They tried to have sex several times, but were "unable to complete sexual intercourse" the first two times. The third time, on October 14, they used lubricant, but the experience was still painful for Roe, who said "ouch" and asked Doe to stop—at which point all sexual activity ceased. Their relationship continued for several more weeks: they kept having sex, eventually with greater success, according to the lawsuit.

In November, Roe broke up with Doe because she suspected he was sleeping with another woman. (Given that he had repeatedly stated he did not want to be in an exclusive relationship with Roe, her suspicion seems well-founded.) In December, she told Doe that she was considering reporting him to the campus Title IX authorities—she now claimed their sex on October 14 was nonconsensual. In February, she told Doe and the president of his fraternity that she wanted him kicked out of the house. She stated that this outcome was all she required: if he left the house, she would not file a Title IX complaint against him. Doe had heard the Title IX process was stacked against accused males, and preferred to leave the fraternity rather than take his chances, and so he complied with Roe's demand, according to the lawsuit.

On March 22, the university informed Doe that he was the subject of a Title IX investigation.

Many universities maintain Title IX investigatory procedures that are unfair to accused students. USC is no exception, though its own process is unfair in novel and creative ways. While some universities employ adjudicatory panels, and others empower a sole administrator to investigate and weigh the charges, USC does both. A single person is given the task of investigating the dispute, interviewing the accuser and the accused, and gathering testimony from witnesses. This person then writes a report about the dispute and makes a judgment call as to whether the accused student should be found responsible. The report is then given to a panel, the Student Equity Review Panel, which renders a final verdict. The identities of the panel members are kept secret, and they never interact with the relevant players: they only read the report.

It's easy to see why this might be the worst of all ways to sort out a sexual assault dispute. The accused must not only rely upon the investigator to do a competent job—he must also rely upon them to write a good report about the investigation, and then trust that a bunch of people he has never met and has no way to contact will reach the correct conclusion. (The same is theoretically true for the accuser—it's not hard to imagine a case where an administrator is rightly convinced the accused is guilty but does a poor job explaining why, and the accuser has no recourse because the panel is a mystery.)

The investigator in this case was the Office of Equity and Diversity's Patrick Noonan. His report can be found here. Roe recalls the night of October 14 much differently. She says she never intended to have sex with Doe. He forced himself on her, and tried to penetrate her even though she had clearly said no several times. He held her down until she was finally able to push him off. She left in tears, writing on his white board, "You better have a great apology for this." Over the next few weeks, she eventually came to see the encounter as rape.

Noonan interviewed 18 other people, at Roe's request. None had witnessed the alleged activity, though they were able to confirm that Roe had given them the details of the story.

Roe also provided Noonan with screenshots of texts between her and Doe—only the texts she deemed relevant to her accusation.

Doe, on the other hand, gave Noonan an Excel file containing all text messages between him and Roe.

It's clear from reading the texts that they don't agree on what happened. Roe repeatedly told Doe that "your actions are equivalent to Bill Cosby's." Doe consistently denies committing rape, though he apologizes for hurting her and having unwanted sex with her.

Their statements to the investigator are also in conflict. Roe claimed she said no a dozen times or more, and Doe was so rough with her that he bruised her. She said the same thing to a whole host of other people. Noonan took this as evidence that the bruises were real—Roe told a lot of people about them—though no one but Roe actually saw the bruises, as best I can tell from the report.

Noonan asked Doe what steps he had taken to insure that he had obtained affirmative consent from Roe. He explained that he had reached for lubricant and said, "this should make things feel better." Roe had responded, "I hope so." He said they had had a conversation about how they were going to have sex, and they took each other's clothes off. He described it as "the least aggressive sexual encounter I've ever had. It was just the two of us barely moving." When she told him to stop, he did. He noted that this was their third sexual encounter—they had no disagreements during their first, second, or fourth sexual encounters.

Noonan ultimately decided that a preponderance of the evidence suggested Doe had not received affirmative consent to have penetrative sex with Roe. In other words, he took two conflicting accounts, and believed Roe's.

Noonan had a very specific reason for disbelieving Doe: by submitting all his text messages, he had actually doomed himself. That's because he submitted the texts out of order. Two of the most important texts—ones in which he apologizes for bad behavior, and comes off looking worst—were submitted out of order, and appeared last in the submitted file. Noonan took this as evidence that Doe was trying to cover his tracks. In his report, he said this action "severely diminishes [Doe's] credibility."

Well, Doe has an explanation for this, and it's a pretty good one. In his appeal, he wrote that Noonan never asked him to explain why some of the texts appeared out of order—Noonan merely presumed the worst. But Doe said he never manipulated the order of the texts at all: the application he used to download the texts, SMS Backup and Restore, did that. The out-of-order texts were the two longest messages exchanged between Doe and Roe, and according to Doe, the application converted these messages into a different format because they were too large. This caused them to appear last, since they were of a different file type. The same thing happened to two picture messages, which also appeared out of order, according to Doe. Noonan apparently missed this.

Other miscellaneous due process abridgements: Doe was never permitted to cross-examine Roe, or even appear in the same room with her. His lawyer was not permitted to speak when he met with Noonan. And he was not permitted to address the panel, directly—or even indirectly, given that he was not present when it convened and has no idea who comprises it.

Based on the evidence submitted, it's impossible to tell whether Doe committed rape. But the university's process for uncovering the truth clearly wasn't up to the task. Keep in mind that Noonan, the person whose judgment is most relevant to the outcome, has a background in labor law. He's a member of the Office of Diversity and Equity. According to Doe's lawsuit, Noonan didn't even record or transcribe his interviews: he merely took notes. His final report represents his recollection of the facts—a recollection that seems almost certainly mistaken when it comes to the all-important out-of-order text messages.

USC administrators are not equipped to judge the merits of Roe's claims. That's clear from their actions, and it's clear form the statements they made when they thought no one was listening. Doe and Roe should settle this dispute—a very serious dispute, concerning a violent crime of a sexual nature—in a court of law, not a Title IX office.

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  1. “Does that college motherfucker know who I am?” USC Title IX Director Gretchen Dahlinger Means asked

    Why would he? You’re nobody. You’re a bureaucrat, easily replaced by another faceless drone.

    1. He knows enough of who you are to recognize that you are a pretty, vindictive cunt and tyrant over whatever minuscule enclave of power you are ever able to seize.

      1. My last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week.
        I can’t believe how easy it was once I tried it out. This is what I do… http://www.trends88.com

      2. My last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week.
        I can’t believe how easy it was once I tried it out. This is what I do… http://www.trends88.com

    2. Never underestimate a bureaucrat’s overestimate of themselves.

      1. I still would expect a degree of professionalism from an administrator, regardless of how massive their god complex grows.

        But “Title IX Director” is a new one. If the cream rises to the top, then whatever the opposite is, sinks to this job.

    3. It’s not who, it’s what. And that what is something very unpleasant and worthless. Just like too many colleges today at least when not teaching science.

  2. Breaking: College students can no longer figure out how to have sexual intercourse.

    1. Any male on campus is out of his fucking mind if he has sex with a coed under any circumstances. The pussy ain’t worth ruining your life.

      1. This. All it takes is hooking up one crazy, vindictive bitch and it’s all over. And since there’s a lot of crazy vindictive bitches out there, it’s simply not worth the risk. Better to live by yourself and jerk off.

        1. That’s why the most powerful skill these days is to have a strong crazy detector. Some girls are really skilled at hiding the crazy, especially in the pre-coitus stage. But there usually are signs, sometimes very subtle. I look for that crazy eyes microexpression in certain situations.

          1. All women are crazy. You can’t bleed for three days every month and not end up crazy.

    2. And if they do somehow manage to accomplish intercourse, the girls can’t figure out how to deal with the morning after.

      1. Any reasonable guy would be long gone by then

        1. Dumping them is what gets the rape accusation.

      2. Certainly some adult should’ve explained to her that holding out for an apology from a guy who’s got women on the side is like putting your cards on the table and then deciding to bluff.

        1. I’m sure if there were any adults on campus, they would have. Unfortunately…

  3. “…has a background in labor law. He’s a member of the Office of Equity and Diversity. He is not formally trained in the rules of evidence or investigatory procedures. According to Doe’s lawsuit, Noonan didn’t even record or transcribe his interviews: he merely took notes….”

    Even in labor law, you make a transcript of the deposition. If he didn’t, it was on purpose.

    1. ^^^ This a hundred times. Also, labor lawyers don’t know about the rules of evidence? They may not use it every day, but I’m sure he had a pretty good familiarity with it.

      1. Actually, I wouldn’t expect anyone but a litigator to know the rules of evidence. Just to pick a random lawyer example, I don’t, not really.

      2. The article says they had a “background in labor law”. Don’t assume they are a Labor Lawyer – they might have had an internship at a law firm or maybe read a book about labor law at some point in their past.

  4. That was not the only outburst. Means also said, “Who do those motherfuckers think they are?” in reference to the student and his lawyer, who had asked for USC to release the identities of the panel members who had voted to expel Doe.

    Take note, these are the people who run things. Not your Hillarys, not your Donalds, these are the faceless, appointed career bureaucrats who can change your lives with the speed of scribbling something on a Post-It note.

    1. And protected by an impenetrable labyrinth of bureaucracy

    2. Which is why administrators are almost universally hated, especially on college campuses. I work with these shitsticks, and a more ignorant and authoritarian group of people cannot be found. Most college administrators are shitty teachers and failed scholars who get into administration because it offers a more satisfying (and lucrative) career track. But their academic training makes most of them idealistic in their thinking and utopian by reflex. When you combine this with a grand title, real power, and an aggrieved reformist mentality, it’s like we’re back in Cambodia during the 1970s.

  5. I don’t know who Gretchen Dahlinger Means is, but I *do* know that the letters in her name can be rearranged to spell “A Changed Enmesh Rent Girl” or “A Changed Regret Hen Limns.”

    1. Also, “The Mrs. Channeled a [racial slur omitted].”

    2. A Changed Enmesh Rent Girl – so, she just put on some fishnets? I can dig it.

    3. “I don’t know who Gretchen Dahlinger Means is”

      Google the name. First hit is her bio page at USC HR. Still there as of now…

      Page still there as of right now…

      1. You see, she asked does he know who I am, so I was kind of trying to tell a joke…ah, well…

        1. I know. I’m pedantic like that.

      2. Wow, she looks pretty much like what I expected.

        1. You expected her to look like dude in a wig, too?

        1. Note to self: reload comments before posting.

      3. History as prosecuting sexual assault cases. Her MO seems clear.

  6. Over the next few weeks, she eventually came to see the encounter as rape.

    After speaking to her women’s studies professor no doubt.

    1. If you didn’t think you were raped at the time, you weren’t raped.

      1. That’s an extremely common route to rape charges.

        Helpless Victim: “I didn’t enjoy the sex. I didn’t consent to sex that was not enjoyable. Therefore I was raped.”

        Prosecutor, School Administrator et al: “Sounds like rape to me.”

      2. If you didn’t think you were raped at the time, you weren’t raped.

        What about the, “if you continue to date the person for weeks afterward, and only get upset enough to dump the person when *they stop being monogamous with you*“-part?

        The hyper-detailed accounting of the Kafka-trial seems to breeze by the fact that Jane didn’t decide to worry about her “rape” until after weeks of additional-sex and then a breakup.

        I know the sex-politics-pedants will note that *of course* rape is possible within relationships and victims need time to determine their own minds etc. blah blah blah.

        but there’s also that this scenario seems to be increasingly the norm, e.g. ‘any unpleasant-sex= rape’ after breakup.

        1. He didn’t even have to stop being monogamous since he told her up front that he wasn’t going to be exclusive with her.

          I pray to god I raise my daughters right and they never pull this kind of shit.

  7. I called. They have no idea what is going on.

    Contact Information
    (213) 740-5086
    GDahlingerMeans@hr.usc.edu

    1. *prepares collection of tasteful nudes*

    2. I want to email her and say, “Does this bureaucrat MOTHERFUCKER know who I am?” but I’m worried I’ll just get pegged by the vicious Feds who lurk on this site.

      1. Wait til one of your colleagues leaves their desk, then use their computer and email account.

        Geez.

        1. Just send it from Hillary Clinton’s e-mail server. Ten minutes of research will show you how to break in.

          -jcr

  8. What a coincidence. One of my study groups in college murdered a guy once. We were arguing about what to do with the body when he disappeared. The next night, we decided we should get together to study so as not to arouse suspicions. When we got there, on the dry erase board, were the words… “You better have a great apology for this.”

    Normally, the ensuing days would be filled with students being murdered but, turns out, we really did have a good apology.

    1. +1 Jennifer Love Hewitt movie

    2. Nicely done.

    3. Congratulations! You are now officially under investigation for every college campus cold case homicide.

      Fed/Prosc/lurkers/Sarc…

  9. USC administrators are not equipped to judge the merits of Roe’s claims.

    It wouldn’t help if they were equipped to judge the merits. I strongly suspect that they don’t care about the merits of the claims, and are thus making no effort whatsoever to judge said merits. Social Justice don’t need no stinkin’ merits!

  10. Rape is a crime. It’s one of the worst crimes a person can commit. And if somebody is a rapist, and they’re convicted by a court of law, sure. Go ahead and throw them out of school. That’s the least they would deserve.

    But that requires evidence, and evidence is rape culture. So I do understand why colleges do this, it’s just fucking ridiculous. Hell, actually sticking to FedGov’s idea that “preponderance of the evidence”, in an actual process constituting something resembling due process, which would be better than this, in which the process is “He’s guilty, we’ll twist the evidence however we need to to make that so.”

    1. Rape is a heinous offense that should be punished severely. But justice requires that to punish someone severely for a heinous crime, you must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person actually committed that crime.

      Social justice, on the other hand, requires that men be punished always. Wanting proof that they committed a crime is, as you said, rape culture.

    2. I think one of the most terrifying aspects of today’s progressives is the disregard for due process. We have always maintained that crimes must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in open court, with the right to counsel and to confront your accuser.

      While that may result in guilty parties going free at times, it was once widely accepted that a guilty man avoid punishment than an innocent man pay for a crime he didn’t commit. Proggies are over that. I recall a fairly recent article from one of the Vox-tards, likely Klein or Yglesias, arguing that we should reevaluate that view, that these new campus-rape procedures might over-punish, but that’s okay.

      1. I remember that article… The justification was some “social justice payback” bullshit. White men caused women and POC to live in fear so it was time to turn the tables and make an example of some white men to “return the favor.” Absolutely disgusting and dehumanizing. Progressives don’t care. At all. The ends justify the means. Steamrolling innocents is just collateral damage.

        1. What was your old nickname?

          1. Anarcho-Engineer. ColonelEngineer before that. HyR creeper and occasional commenter for a little over 3 years now. Someone else is usually able to better articulate what I’m thinking so I end up observing most of the time.

            1. This a good handle, though. You’ll have to explain it in a few years after Robby leaves to run the Twitter account for Vice, but that’s OK.

      2. It was Klein

      3. It was Ezra Klein- his “argument” was if men were scared of this happening to them, there would be less rape.

    3. A colleague of mind suggested the rape investigation process is acceptable because “preponderance of the evidence” is, in fact, the civil lawsuit standard. The problem, of course, is that a university expelling a student is not really a civil lawsuit. If the woman wanted to sue the dude, then that would make sense.

      Having said that, I have problems with civil lawsuits being used when a criminal prosecution has failed (e.g. O.J.).

      1. I don’t understand the mindset of turning a rapist loose on the general public. It’s not like a serial rapist would never visit campus again after being expelled. The whole procedure is fucked if you’re actually trying to prevent real rape.

        1. I think they see themselves as an outpost of decency i.e. men are raping women all over the country but the patriarchy protects, nay, encourages, rapists. We don’t control the country (yet), but we control this campus and we will punish these barbarians. Once enough of our people get into power, we will really punish these barbarians.

        2. And if 1 in 5 women gets raped in college, then those rapists are continuing to rape after college.

        3. They aren’t trying to prevent real rape.

      2. So, rape – preponderance; false accusation – preponderance?

  11. His lawyer was not permitted to speak when he met with Noonan.

    Which is why I’d advise any male in college, if you ever find yourself in this sort of predicament, make sure that your lawyer in the room isn’t a defense attorney, but an attorney specializing in suing colleges.

    1. “His lawyer was not permitted to speak …”

      Did this lawyer have duct tape over their mouth? I cant recall a time when I spoke only when someone permitted me to.

      1. Last time I was told to not talk until the bureaucrat got done reading something, her little buttbuddy from the AG’s office muttered something that sure sounded to me like “So these hospitals just pick and choose who lives and who dies.”

        I felt no hesitation in interrupting the bureaucrat and asking “Pardon me, my hearing isn’t good on my right side, could you repeat that?”

        I won’t say hilarity ensued, but I sure enjoyed myself, and nobody ever said a word about me interrupting.

    2. You want to point out what the lawyer specializes in, once there.

      1. “Oh, no. He’s not a defense lawyer. He’s a plaintiff’s lawyer. He’s not here to defend me, he’s here to size up my case against you.”

        1. Exactly. Although I don’t know if I’d be so kind as to even point that out to them ahead of time. I’d leave it up to him (or her).

  12. Reading the lawsuit, the was a more interesting statement from the “investigators” while the line was still open.

    “Mr. Means and Ms. Noonan then described Ms. Roe as ‘a catch’ and ‘so cute and intelligent’. Ms. Means further remarked, ‘what was she doing with that?'”

    1. That sounds sexist and demeaning.

      1. Talk about objectifying too, to the guy. Not ‘him,’ but ‘that.’ Nice to know what title ix investigators think of males.

  13. I almost wish I were back in school. Trolling these stupid motherfuckers and baiting them into a lawsuit that would pay me enough to retire would be childs play.

    One cant say too often that this is Obumble’s doing. His reinterpretation of Title IX is what did this. This is the world of unaccountable petty tyrants he would have us all live in.

    1. One could only hope that one of his daughter’s awkward sexual escapades turns into a media circus in the near future.

      And, yes, I’m aware that, by some standards, it could be interpreted that I said that I hope one of the President’s daughters gets raped.

      1. Leave the childrens out of it.

        1. Care to wager as to whether my children will pay the penaltax?

      2. As much as i hate that motherfucker some small part of me feels sorry for him. He never really had a chance. His mother was a borderline personality disorder who hated America and everything it stands for. He was raised entirely by pinkos, brainwashed all the way through college.

        I wouldn’t be surprised if his daughters flipped and became conservatives. I cant wish any harm on them.

        1. I wouldn’t be surprised if his daughters flipped and became conservatives. I cant wish any harm on them.

          Sure, I’d hope they become upstanding and productive citizens as well. However, if they decided to lash out, I would derive considerable amounts of joy if one of them found a nice community organizer from Chicago and Title IX’ed the shit out of the guy.

        2. I saw the stupid NY Post article on Malia at a concert during the DNC. Just leave his kids alone. They’ve got enough problems being daughters of a President, let alone having those two as parents. Can you imagine dealing with those narcissists for your entire life? I can try, since my grandfather is somewhat narcissistic and incredibly stubborn, but I think my imagination fails.

          1. Can you imagine dealing with those narcissists for your entire life?

            Uhhh… you mean like Jack, Bobbie, and Teddie Kennedy? Or Jeb and W (not that H.W. was much of a narcissist)? Or Chelsea Clinton?

            It’s possible, but exceedingly unlikely, that the Obama’s will stray from their father’s footsteps. They may not actually end up pandering the same political pablum, but they’ll live a charmed life and it *is* likely that they will found a political dynasty. I certainly don’t wish explicit harm to come to them but I have nothing but crocodile tears for any ills they may suffer. Doubly so if awkward social/sexual situations are be considered an ill.

            1. What about Amy Carter? Is she chopped liver?

              Yeah, actually she is. She was running around protesting shit when I was going to Memphis State and she did NOT grow out of her awkward phase into a beauty.

              1. Thanks, Pope. Amy predates me. I do remember Jenna and Barbara (and even W) catching all manner of flack for underage drinking and all the larger implications any reporter could fabricate.

                If we were talking about the 9 and 10 yr. olds that came into the White House, I might agree that attacking/criticizing them may be off limits. Now however, the rules for the taboo need to be enforced because ‘security through obscurity’, ‘for the children’, and ‘Republicans are worse!’.

  14. I have one caveat about the “prosecute in criminal court” meme – I agree that rape is serious enough that allegations of rape need to be criminally investigated and, if verified, prosecuted.

    However, the suggestion that the criminal process is always fairer than the campus process omits a key detail – criminal charges are mostly resolved by plea-bargains, and the incentives are such that even for an innocent defendant, it sometimes makes more sense to plead to a lesser charge and less harsh sentence rather than take the risk of being convicted on perjured testimony.

    So if the case goes to trial in criminal court it will be fairer than what the campuses have on offer, but with most rape cases, the “trial” consists largely of negotiations based on what each side believes the other has. Discovery helps, of course, in giving defendants a taste of what they’ll get if they go to trial, but there’s still enough uncertainty that even innocent defendants may choose to plead guilty in exchange for “leniency.”

    1. In what scenario would pleading guilty to rape be considered a wise move? Genuinely curious.

      1. I haven’t experienced it, but I would imagine that if the complaining witness lies plausibly about a consensual encounter, and it’s simply a he-said she-said contest, and the prosecutor breathes fire and smoke about how many years the guy might get if convicted, maybe copping to a lesser charge and getting probation might start seeming like a good thing.

        Myself, I’d fight it.

      2. Plead to rape of course not, but generally there is a lesser offence such as sexual battery that comes with a much shorter prison term. Sure you’re still on the sex offender registry for life but 2 years behind bars is a hell of a lot better than 12 years.

        1. It’s not uncommon for the disparity between the plea sentence and the conviction sentence to be even worse than that. Prosecutors get pissed when you exercise your right to a trial, and they make it very clear they’ll throw everything at you if you make them prove their case. It could be 2 years probation versus 15 years in jail.

          So yeah, even if you’re 100% innocent you’ve got a very hard choice in front of you. You willing to bet 15 years that the jury realizes she’s a lying psycho?

    2. Preponderance is from civil trials, where they also only require a majority I believe.

      Criminal convictions are (supposed to be) much harder to get. Criminal trials require a unanimous decision to convict, and it must be beyond a reasonable doubt.

    3. In truth, I think prosecutors already try rape cases avidly enough; sure there’s the whole rape kit backlog, by that’s more due to bureaucratic ineptitude than sexism.

      The truth, which will make any feminist’s head explode and so no one dare utter it, is that there isn’t a rape crisis and we don’t need to ‘do more’ to or make changes to make accused rapist so easier to put away. As with any other crime we should stick to the same strategy of trying only cases with sufficient evidence to the best of the prosrcutor’s honest ability. Nothing more is either needed or warranted.

      Also ‘politically incorrect’, if feminists really want to see better prosecution of rapists, the one thing they should be doing us telling victims to go to the police immediately and cooperate fully. The biggest reason rapists get acquitted is lack of evidence, and the biggest reason for lack of evidence arguably is the passage of time and the lack of victim cooperation.

  15. Wood.

  16. Look, it’s unreasonable to expect any woman to equal a man. Therefore we need the most lax policies in place that we can possibly imagine because, lets face it men, we’re just wiser and better. That’s why it’s only just and fair that we are guilty until proven innocent, or really just guilty period. After all, the onus falls on the only party with agency and women plainly do not qualify.

    I mean, look at how frail and emotionally unstable they all are. Even if they think they consented, it’s obvious at face value that women don’t know their own minds therefore they are plainly incapable of consent. Even if they do consent, they are allowed to later change their minds because of this detail. Expecting women to equal a man? Pfft, what are you smoking?

    Protect us from ourselves, or go to jail. Your choice, since you’re the man!

    /modern feminism

  17. So why does Gretchen Dahlinger Means presume incest?

  18. Gretchen Dahlinger Means in a photo listed on her official USC bio, which reads exactly the way you’d think it would.

    In 2000 Gretchen joined the San Diego District Attorney’s Office, where for more than seven years she handled sexual assaults, Sexually Violent Predator commitments, sex-based homicides, and criminal sexual exploitation while assigned to the Sex Crimes Unit. Gretchen pioneered a new approach to prosecuting gang pimping and authored legislation on the topic. She also participated on a variety of state and federal task forces dedicated to combating criminal sexual exploitation and helped form a county-wide, multi-disciplinary group on the topic. Gretchen provided 24-hour support to law enforcement in the region, and she developed and facilitated annual training on sexual assault prosecution. Gretchen also taught internationally on sexual assault and criminal sexual exploitation.

    Who is more qualified than her? AMERICA!

    1. I first read it as ‘she developed and facilitated anal training’.

      Those who say she looks just like you’d expect are correct. I literally got a chill down my spine.

    2. ‘When you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail’ has never been more applicable.

  19. tl;dr

    is there a good ‘robby equivocation’ here? Let me express my outrage. = boooooo

    done and done

    In February, she told Doe and the president of his fraternity that she wanted him kicked out of the house. She stated that this outcome was all she required: if he left the house, she would not file a Title IX complaint against him.

    isn’t that called “blackmail”?

    so he complied with Roe’s demand, according to the lawsuit.

    On March 22, the university informed Doe that he was the subject of a Title IX investigation.

    Ha ha. Silly rabbit.

    I do think its sort of crazy that Reason devotes this degree of postmortem analysis to things like “2 college kids having a fuck-spat” and yet they’ll skip past things like DNC emails with nothing but a yawn.

    1. Based on the evidence submitted, it’s impossible …..But the university’s process for uncovering the truth clearly wasn’t up to the task. Keep in mind…..

      there we go. god i was worried.

  20. Actually, it’s really easy to tell that, according to the understanding of rape everybody had prior to about 5 years ago, no rape occurred. If we take this girl at her word in its entirety then what happened was she got bruised while attempting to have sex with a guy because he was a little rough. That’s not rape. That’s not even a crime or unsavory behavior. It’s more ‘clumsy’ than anything else.

  21. Reason is the best place to come to when one desires to build up a blackout thirst.

  22. Well I’m glad nothing like this happened to me while I was there.

    Does anyone have text of the “apologetic” texts? How bad do they look?

    1. There are some mentions in the report from the investigator.

    2. I hear one included “grab it’s motherfucking leg”…

  23. Bitch-moan #2

    that the headline suggests that the “unbelievable” thing is the bureaucrat’s ‘vulgarity’.

    its actually completely fucking irrelevant other than as pearl-clutching. it certainly doesn’t help highlight what seems to be the widespread misconduct in Title IX investigations.

    1. its actually completely fucking irrelevant

      I don’t agree, it is if nothing else, strong evidence of a lack of professionalism, that can be applied to her other responsibilities.

      1. Ok, fine – but as the headline & lede?

        1. That’s totally fair.

  24. Letter to my Alma Mater. (I copied Gretchen Means)
    Dear President Nikias,

    There have been a number of articles regarding alleged non-consensual sex between USC students. Just today, I read a few articles about one and I am shocked and disgusted. The behavior of Gretchen Means is appalling but very educational. In fact, I showed it to my 2 sons: One is a student at Cal Poly SLO and the other will be entering Cal this fall. Alas, my son at Cal was admitted to UCLA, Cal, UVA and a number of other world class institutions, but not USC…and for this, I must thank you. My Alma Mater is no longer a place I call home or understand.

    “Rape” in quotes in the subject line is deliberate on my part, since it is not at all clear that rape occurred. It certainly is legitimate to question USC’s decision and I am heartened to see a judge has placed a stay on the matter.

    As 1 of 12 children, 11 of whom attended USC, it’s a shame to see what USC has become.

    James Quigley
    USC ’88

    1. http://www.usc.edu/dept/pubrel…..igleys.jpg

      JIMBO!

      1. That’s us!

    2. I’ll need to send one too – MBA ’94.

    3. “Rape” in quotes in the subject line is deliberate on my part, since it is not at all clear that rape occurred.

      Probably the best way to word it, but still, “it is quite clear no rape occurred” is more accurate.

      If you really want to get their attention, tell them you won’t be donating to the school anytime soon. That only works if you’ve donated in the past, though.

      1. Donations? Not so much. Although once my kids graduate, I would be able to do so. After my wife (a Cal grad) saw the letter from USC declining her baby (he has no flaws, of course!), she said she would castrate me if I ever gave USC another penny.
        I’m glad he’s going to Cal: Less expensive and a better school.

        1. My daughter got into Purdue’s Engineering School, Lafayette and RPI, wait-listed at USC. So not like she would have gone there, but no way are they getting more of my money.

          1. Engineering, huh? She must be smart. My Cal son could have done STEM but isn’t into it, unfortunately. He is doing Air Force ROTC and getting tuition paid for, but unless you are STEM or a foreign language of interest to the military (Mandarin, etc), they won’t pay for everything else.

    4. as a UVA alum, we’re not exactly covering ourselves with glory on this front either

      1. Welcome to the Shit Party! We are a welcome and diverse club.

    5. Jimbo,

      I applaud your honor.

  25. Would this have gone differently, if Doe had filed a complaint regarding Roe blackmailing him (to leave the fraternity)? Do false accusations fall under the preponderance of the evidence standard? Ist “affirmative consent” designed to circumvent that? Does disparate impact matter? — This area of the “law” is in a remarkably pathetic state.

    Is there any agreed-upon standard as to how to evaluate claims of people who continue to have sex and a “romantic” relationship with “their” alleged rapist? In so finely tuned evidentiary standards as “preponderance”, it seems this would play a major role. Is this supposed to be a caricature of “battered wife syndrome?” If ridiculous behavior is given the rank of convincing proof, is rational behavior deemed unconvincing? Is any of pre-pondering based on an analysis of what women normally do? Do they normally continue to have sex with someone who raped and harmed them? (Perhaps it is necessary to split rape and harm, or to distinguish kinds of harm: physical, emotional, and “autonomy harm”. Harm usually partially determines the proportional reaction.) Any deviation from normal behavior would – objectively – have to be counted as evidence in favor of the defendant. Otherwise there is no semblance of a rational basis. Among the standard of preponderance, shouldn’t criteria be more objective rather than more subjective?

    1. “Is any of [the] pre-pondering…”

  26. Hilary’s “free college” plan is simply a war against men.

    1. “College free of men for all”.

  27. The solution is simple. Video all sexual encounters.

    1. Be sure and do it secretly so they won’t start acting.

  28. I i get paid over $87 per hour working from home with 3 kids at home. I never thought I’d be able to do it but my best friend earns over 10k a month doing this and she convinced me to try. The potential with this is endless.

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  29. Here’s a crazy idea. If you’re raped report it to the police. If the person is arrested they are suspended. If they are convicted they are expelled. Done and done.

    1. There will be probable cause, and both people being allowed to talk, and evidence, and a fair trial, if it gets that far (maybe), and other icky stuff like that.

    2. 2 things: They have been countless times told, “going to the police does nothing”, while now they have this tool that cannot be found anywhere else in society that gives them the answers and results they want at little to no cost, and begins completely slanted in their favour.
      Decisions, decisions….

  30. From now on all male college students having sex should make a video of the encounter and immediately post it on You Tube so that there will be no doubt as to whether the sex was consensual.

    1. And promptly be arrested for posting revenge porn.

  31. “USC administrators are not equipped to judge the merits of Roe’s claims. That’s clear from their actions, and it’s clear form the statements they made when they thought no one was listening.”

    Actually, USC is a private university, and if they want to expel students for having blonde hair, wearing silly hats, being accused of rape, or for any other reason, then they should be free to do so.

    If there was a reference to USC being a private institution anywhere in this article, I missed it.

    Can anybody tell if Robby is against Title IX as a means for the government to impose itself on association rights, or if he’s in favor of Title IX because so long as it imposes on people’s association rights “fairly”? Because he seems to go back and forth, not only from article to article but also within the same article, too.

    1. Not if they get one penny of government money.

      1. ^Exactly^

        Name a big name college that does not?

        There is no such thing as a “private university. They’re all on the dole.

        1. If it were impossible for them to avoid taking government money, then how could they be sanctioned for taking it?

        2. Hillsdale

      2. You didn’t build that!

        The government paid for the roads, educated your employees, etc., etc. That’s also why fundamentalist bakers must be compelled to cater gay weddings, too, right?

        Bullshit.

        There’s a big difference between private and public, and it should be incumbent on the government to avoid violating people’s association rights–not the other way around.

        Are people not allowed free speech, religion, assembly, etc. if they take one penny from the government, too, or is the First Amendment a restriction against government interference?

      3. Also, these rules aren’t adopted voluntarily, but rather imposed by the dept of education. I’m not sure what legal recourse the state would take against a truly private college that refused to enforce title ix, but in so far as even a private university could be punished somehow even by the process, It is still a violation of someone’s rights. If the state bans the sale of apples, my right to buy apples has been infringed. If the state tacitly bans universities that don’t abide by its ostensible anti discrimination rules, it would thereby infringe on one’s right to attend a college that doesn’t have kangaroo courts.

    2. Except these days of politically and sociallly “correct”, if I have a private entity and choose to shoose whom I will/will not deal with on certain defined bases, I can and often will be abused for discrimination”. Hair colour, whilst not on the list, is a trait over which few have much control (natural colour, that is). How about a penchant for silly hats> Being ACCUSED of rape could easily be considered as some sort of sexual discrimination…. and thus “illegal”. These days, a private entity no longer have the liberty to choose with whom and how to associate with others…. a liberty guaranteed in our Constitution. Its all smoke and mirrors, non-elected hooh hahs with predetermined agendae tossing about their weight at will so s to promote that agenda.

  32. Rome did not fall because of barbarians beating at the gates, Rome fell from the political rot within. It took Rome approximately 800 years from beginning to end to fall. America has sped up that process dramatically. This type of star chamber adjudication shows that the end is near.

    1. Then there is the Schadenfreude effect the mohammedans refer to as “the enemy of my enemy is my friend…”
      Mystical bigots who lied abt hemp when repeal of prohibition (leaving the communist income tax standing) failed to restore beer sales in a ruined economy. Their intellectual heirs lied about LSD–and now their chickens are coming home to roost. Pissed-off presstitutes and ex-scientists work with communists and econazis to ban nuclear energy and sacrifice industry on the altars of bozone layers and water-vapor global warming by the exact same package-dealing documendacity approach used to jail hippies and tan people.
      Moral: initiation of force and fraud breeds retaliation in kind. Libertarians need to stand well clear of the christianofascists so as to not get caught in the flash and concussion wave when they get the radioactive rapture uplift they sooooo deserve.

  33. Ah, Yes, who can argue with the tried and true “Don’t you know who I am”.

    1. I work in local government. We hear this all the time from mayors and city council members from podunksville.

      Talk about a Godlike complex.

      “Do you know who you’re talking to?”

      You can turn this to your favor though. Without having to be an elected official.

      More than once, my overzealous uncle has taken us somewhere that was closed or for some other reason, we wouldn’t be allowed in. He tells the guard/bouncer/whatever that he is with the Chamber of Commerce from such and such a city and we just want to check the place out for possible venue for a future event.

      You wouldn’t believe how often this actually works. People are that stupid!

      1. Kevin Spacey used to pretend to be Johnny Carson’s son to get into clubs and events.

  34. I am so sick to fucking death of hearing about this shit. Don’t take that wrong, I’m very happy with Reason for writing about it, I’m just sick of it ‘happening’.

    Listen up, all young men. If you want to go to a college campus and get an education, stay the fuck away from female students. All of them. ALL of them. Do not even talk to them unless it’s part of a class project and there are other people around. Don’t joke with them. Don’t even fucking look at them. You want sex? Go to a neighborhood bar or go to a dating site, or go to whatever mobile sex app and find a MILF to take care of you. Not taking that advice is like playing Russian Roulette.

    1. I hear you.

      So, what will you tell all the young women? They need love too.

    2. I was just reading something yesterday that suggested the Millennial generation is in fact less sexually active than previous generations. I guess shit like this would be one of the theories as to why.

      Although honestly I am a little doubtful about the findings. Less sex certainly doesn’t seem to be the case. Then again, it’s kind of impossible to say because you can only be a part of one generation so I have no frame of reference to compare.

    3. Or have a pre-made contract.

  35. So, Noonan has no more of a contemporaneous record of his investigation than does the FBI of the Clinton E-mail investigation?
    Doe gets fried, and Hillary is nominated for President.
    Whatacountry!

  36. I feel like Robby forgives rape in this article. Very upsetting.

    1. I feel like Trumptard, goes full Trump, throws out due process and Coffin v. United States because “momentary whimsy”. Very upsetting.

  37. Can someone who gets expelled and blacklisted for something like this when they didn’t actually do it just sue the school for defamation already?

    Damages are pretty fucking clear when a kid can’t complete their college education anymore and the colleges wouldn’t be able to deny access to the records on the case after they had been subpoenaed. If all the schools did was kick the kids out, they couldn’t really do anything. But the permanent record blackmark that prevents them from transferring to other schools is clearly something worth going to court for.

  38. Gretchen Dahlinger should be raped to death then beheaded then set on fire but that’s just me.

  39. Gretchen Dahlinger should be raped to death

  40. I left my office-job and now I am getting paid 98 usd hourly. How? I work over internet! My old work was making me miserable, so I was forced to try something different, 2 years after…I can say my life is changed-completely for the better! Check it out what i do…

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  41. Something something power. Something something absolutely.

    –Lord Acton

  42. “Does that college motherfucker know who I am?”

    that’s sort of the point. he’d like to know who you are.

  43. How does the lack of affirmative consent enter into this case? There was a (questionable) finding that Roe said no to sex several times, and Doe forced himself on her regardless. That’s rape, whether or not she had given consent previously.

  44. In a “he said/she said”situation, “she said” always wins. Remember that fellas, and don’t stick your dick in crazy!

  45. “Does that college motherfucker know who I am?” USC Title IX Director Gretchen Dahlinger Means

    He does know who she is! She is a vain bimbo who spent two decades getting educated so that she now has the glorious position of sitting in judgment over the first sexual relations of college students. It’s hardly surprising that a law school graduate who can’t find any more meaningful employment than that is perpetually angry.

  46. I added Gretchen Dahlinger Means to my list in:

    “Would the World be Better If Women Ran It?” http://malemattersusa.wordpres…..en-ran-it/

    1. Women will run and get elected until the last male mystical bigot eager to force them to bear their rapist’s child is beaten and run out of office. Two can play at this single-minded fanaticism, and I’m betting on the women winning this one no matter what it takes.

  47. Does anyone find it odd that the same feminist/proggy blocs and organizations that ushered them in, under the slogan ” stay out of the bedroom” are now the same ones championing and taking a leading role in doing exactly that in order to further the former’s agenda?

    1. Whenever someone says “down with the king,” usually it just means they want to take the place of the king they mean to overthrow.

    2. Welcome to Schadenfreude. Please stand behind the yellow line and have your passport ready to show your visa.

  48. I read the texts in the report. It doesn’t look good for John Doe. There’s no clear admission of rape, but he does act as if he has a guilty conscience. My impression of what happened is that he knew she really wasn’t into it but continued and she protested weakly. Is that horrible, traumatizing rape that should send him to prison? No, probably not, but it is poor behavior and in today’s social climate everyone should know better. It sounds like he did know better and regretted his actions.

    1. But the texts in the report did not contain a transcription of Doe’s testimony…derp toad.

    2. or maybe he’s just trying to be complaint by “apologising” and moving out of the frat brat trap house….. sort of a due diligence act of appeasement to put paid to it all. I refuse to slog through all the texts, but it seems to me she was pretty fine with the encounter, notwithstanding her discomfort, even coming back for more multiple times. I believe her turn of “heart” (she does not seem to really have much of one) is more to assuage her own guilt at acting like trash. Don’t like to be used? Don’t let the boys in and let them abuse you. WHO was the real rapist here? A guy taking advantage of the willingness of a slut to bed him multiple times gets himself raped for something he did not do… life ruined, or at least pretty messed up for a while.

      Best advice? Heep yer pecker in yer pants until you are married. It IS possible. And WHOLE lot safer. On multiple levels.

  49. Ignoring for a moment the nausea that accompanies reading the pathetic, misogynistic, infantile rants of some of you…I will address those with half a brain.

    What appears on the surface to be a well-researched article is, in fact, leaving out some relevant context:
    1. Doe was the subject of a Title IX *complaint*, not a lawsuit, as far as I can tell from Soave and other sources. A complaint can be filed on behalf of “victims” and is not necessarily something that Roe did. She may in fact have been true to her word, that after he moved out she was satisfied.
    2. USC was under federal investigation for mishandling Title IX cases in 2013. They have every incentive to side with the “victim” and, in fact, to make sure as hell that every possible complaint is fully investigated. If they are overboard, add past mistakes and federal pressure to the people you need to blame.

  50. In Morocco, where the State Religion is islamic, it’s OK for athletes to grope chambermaids, apparently…

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