Is Global Warming a Sign of the End Times?

A new Yale poll finds 14 percent of Americans think so

Philcold/Dreamstime

The folks over at the Yale Program on Climate Change Communication conducted a poll of 1,200 or so Americans regarding their religious and climate beliefs. It turns out that not insignficant percentages of Americans think that global warming is definitely or probably a sign of the approaching End Timeshttp://climatecommunication.yale.edu/publications/global-warming-god-end-times/. Some Christians believe that various Millennarian prophecies are coming true now. Traditionally, the Apocalypse will be brought on by Four Horsemen: Famine, Pestilence, War, and Death. Yale pollsters report that about 14 percent of Americans believe that planetary warming may be a Fifth Horseman.

As the pollsters report:

For a significant number of Americans, the reality, causes and meaning of global warming are seen through the lens of their religious beliefs. Some reject the evidence that humans are causing global warming because they believe God controls the climate. Others believe that global warming is evidence that the world will be ending soon, and that we don't need to worry about global warming in light of the approaching apocalypse.

Yale Climate Change Communications

Go here to see the full report from the Yale program.

H/T Mark Osler.

Comments

[Acosmist]

Atheists are climate deniers? Huh. They'd better get on board before the climate denier camps are set up.

[SkyeTalbot]

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[Heil Hilary]

So the far right-hand side of the bell curve is idiots.

[CE]

And the far left.

[R C Dean]

I think the far left is idiots. Those are the CO2 apocalypse fundies. The far right is probably the best answer, as it correctly identifies the question as a category error ("global warming (or the lack of it) and my religion (or the lack of it) have nothing to do with each other").

[CE]

If you asked people 10,000 years ago about global warming, they would have said it was a sign of God's benevolence.

[neoteny]

They were happy to come in from the cold.

[Adans smith]

The Browns winning the Super Bowl will bring about the end times. On the other had,Hillary could be the serpent of Ragnarok.

[BigT]

"And behold a hag of enormous mendacity will arise from amongst the faithful,
who will bring great hunger and snapping of yoga pants,
wherein their wombs will shrink and shrivel,
and dugs will sag below their knees,
and the masses shall weep until the Great Builder shall appear,
and tear the witch asunder,
freeing the people from her yoke.

[CLM1227]

Christians have a Whore of Babylon...

take it as you will...

[thrakkorzog]

Dogs and cats living together is a sign of the apocalypse. Global warming is a sign I need to crank up the AC.

[Adans smith]

And a sign to buy more beer.

[ATXChappy]

Don't forget frozen Margaritas!

[BYODB]

Apparently, some of these respondents are so read up on biblical lore they have no problem adding in a 5th horseman of the apocalypse just for giggles.

In other words, mostly morons who barely know their own religion let alone having one iota of critical thought.

So what was Yale doing? Trying to link religion to climate denial? Or trying to link Climate Change to terrifying religious people?

Nah, I'm just joshing you bro. It's for grant cash.

[0x90]

Apparently, some of these respondents are so read up on biblical lore they have no problem adding in a 5th horseman of the apocalypse just for giggles.

Fully half of taoists surveyed characterized global warming as representing an emerging third pole in the fundamental oneness of all. Some expressed alarm at the prospect, while others displayed taijitu reconfigured as three-spoked pinwheels.

[C. Anacreon]

I'm guessing it was the Yalies who added the 5th horseman, just because otherwise the response didn't fit nicely into their study design.

I've had more than a few debates with Yale researchers in my field of study over the past decade, about some pretty obvious facts which they couldn't seem to comprehend. Rather than describing them as stunningly idiotic, I choose to believe that they just 'think in a very concrete way.'

And we're not even remotely related to climate studies. Let's just say recent years has shown me how much of pack-followers too many 'scientists' are, especially those at 'top institutions'. They are so often just part of a tow-the-lion, 'we only believe this direction, our department chair's way is our way' at these 'top' schools, that's it's far too often that truly groundbreaking research has to come out of left field.

And to be honest, I doubt this is anything new. Anyone thinking that current-agreement 'consensus' is the way to go in science is truly frightening. Even more, the idea that the government (Hillary) would seek to prosecute any such 'heretics' should scare the crap out of all of us.

[Cloudbuster]

Those guys aren't mavericks enough to drag lions around, but they sure know how to "toe the line."

[JWatts]

Personally, I think tow the lion is an apt description. Not that they'll be successful and eventually the lion will get tired of their antics and stop the 'towing'. But that's what makes it apt.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Does that make Trump or Hillary the Anti-Christ?

[Adans smith]

Hillary [ in her white pants suit ] is Lex(is) Luther, Trump is the Joker.

[Fist of Etiquette]

DC Comics universe? Ugh. Figures.

[Ted S.]

Aren't they both the Antichrist?

[Gojira]

On through the dead of night
With the Four Horsemen ride
Or choose your fate and die

I'd have made the little music note symbol, but I don't know how : (

[The Hyperbole ((Very Tall))]

? Just type (altkey)+14 ?

I thought you tall people were smart and superior.

[Gojira]

I was smart enough to trick you into enacting my labor and explaining it, so that I didn't have to waste precious moments looking it up.

*walks away ?whistling? a jaunty tune*

[The Hyperbole ((Very Tall))]

How did you do that star thingy i front of walk and after tune?

[Gojira]

Oh it's easy, you just...hey, wait a minute!

[Ted S.]

Doesn't work on my Linux box.

[DenverJ]

Or my phone

[pan fried wylie]

Notes

copypasta the ampersand code for the desired symbol.

[Adans smith]

' You tell 'em I'm coming,and hell's coming with me!'

[CraigL]

More than 14% of the public think Elvis is alive and that we didn't go to the moon...probably 14% don't know either what global warming is or what the end times are or both. Polls.

[0x90]

1 In 4 Americans Thinks The Sun Goes Around The Earth, Survey Says

[Gojira]

The comments contain a lot of gems.

Mikey7 Diz Gusting ? 2 years ago
The Christian right is a fascist movement supporting the right wing fascist Corporate State.

No Bozos colt call ? 2 years ago
Oh my God - almost lost my coffee through my nose at that one... you can BANK on the fact that every one of these hopelessly ignorant people vote Republican... not even a question! Good try though you dope.... Next time do the math, you'll slowly come to the conclusion that a majority of voters elected Obama - it'll be slow, but you'll get there if you use addition.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Progressive comments are a sign of the end of times.

[Gene]

End times sure are taking their sweet fucking time then.

[Gene]

*its*

[thrakkorzog]

"Are you saying that 1/4 of people are retarded?"

"Let's take a test sample. There are four of us, and you're a retard, that's 1/4."

[Not an Economist]

It depends upon the coordinate system. A coordinate system based on the Earth revolving around the Sun yields a much simpler equation, but you could convert the equations to a system based on the Sun revolving around the Sun.

[0x90]

However, the choice of coordinate system carries with it physical implications that make one preferable to another, even leaving aside Occam's Razor.

For instance, we can readily estimate the size of the earth, and therefore the size of, and distance to the moon. Though we are free to choose the geocentric frame, geometrically speaking, physically, our doing so forces us to calculate the orbital speed of the moon as being somewhere around 65,000 mph. And since we are changing nothing but the reference frame, the sun is still 93 million miles away, and we must calculate for it an orbital speed of over 24 million mph. We then consider that Jupiter's distance from earth is around 4 astronomical units, and so forth for Neptune, etc, and conclude that, even ignoring that we can't explain why they should move as they appear to do, the speeds at which they must be moving are becoming ludicrous. And that is before we consider the apparent movement of stars.

In other words, in addition to choosing a different frame, we must also construct a new orbital mechanics, which allows us to accept both the relatively easy-to-calculate size and distance to the moon, while simultaneously allowing for other bodies to be much smaller and closer.

[stuartl]

No matter what coordinate system you choose, the earth and sun will rotate around a common point that is inside the sun. Pretty much at the center of the sun in fact.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Everything is a sign of the end of times these days.

Even when ole Rufus...

[Crusty Juggler]

Ban air conditioning now so that we have a chance to survive!

[AlmightyJB]

You wouldn't like me without air conditioning.

[Adans smith]

You assume we like you now?

[AlmightyJB]

I meant REALLY not like me, not just agnostic towards my existence.

[AlmightyJB]

The United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit and the president of the North Carolina branch of the N.A.A.C.P. and a lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union as well as Attorney General Loretta Lynch all claim that black people are dumber than everyone else.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07......html?_r=1

[prolefeed]

You might want to reread the article, which was about how the court ruled that the voter ID laws in NC were set up to impose barriers, allegedly on everyone equally, but which would result in a much bigger barrier to voting for blacks versus whites, with the outcome of depressing turnout among black voters.

Not sure how you got "people think blacks are stupid" out of that.

[AlmightyJB]

Green lives matter

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016.....g-red.html

[Rhywun]

Hi ho!

[Microaggressor]

Climate Change Communication

You had to remind me that this is a thing that exists.

[__Warren__]

The sun is flat, the Earth is a pyramid and Uranus is infested with Klingons!

[Hyperion]

And below all that, it's just turtles all the way down.

[__Warren__]

What about after the last turtle?

[Hyperion]

It's just turtles. *runs away*

[neoteny]

What about after the last turtle?

Aleph 0.

[JWatts]

"What about after the last turtle?"

That turtle is standing on an elephant.

[John Titor]

Traditionally, the Apocalypse will be brought on by Four Horsemen: Famine, Pestilence, War, and Death.

Actually, it's Famine, Conquest, War (as in civil war) and Death. Pestilence is a more 'pop culture' interpretation based on historically messy translation. Other early theologians identify the white horse with 'Victory' rather than 'Conquest' (because Greek is weird), and the rider being Jesus.

Either way, in regards to the article, Michael Crichton is laughing from beyond the grave.

[kinnath]

Famine, Pollution, War, and Death. Pestilence got depressed with the advent of anti-biotics and then retired. Pollution took his place. This occurred before the rise of HIV & Ebola, so Pestilence retired a bit too early.

Paraphrased from the gospels of Gaiman and Pratchett.

[BigT]

Pornography, guns, homosexuality, and drugs.

WTF bible are you reading?

[Dennis, Constitutional Peasant]

14 percent of Americans believe

there should be a term for the "margin of stupid".

i.e. - Certain kinds of beliefs, if they fall below a certain threshold, should be considered "within the margin of stupid" and therefore ignored.

I believe this threshold is in fact just around 15%

examples =

30% of Americans don't know what year 9/11 happened; 15% totally unsure, other 15% just wrong
20% are pretty sure there are aliens at Roswell
14% believe the CIA created Crack cocaine
15% not sure who US declared independence from
15% think sun revolves around earth
20% believe in witches (*which means 5% of them are *right*)

[The Hyperbole ((Very Tall))]

9/11 happens every year.
Roswell is in NM so yeah, aliens!
They may not have created it but they put it in the 'hood.
I got nothing here.
Depending on your reference point it does.
all women is witches, evil-magical-misery-machines.(just ask Agile)

[The Fusionist]

He doesn't have to be asked.

[Derpetologist]

I will add that a fair number of Harvard grads can't explain why seasons exist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0wk4qG2mIg

And a fair number of MIT grads cannot figure out how to get light a bulb with a battery and a wire:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIhk9eKOLzQ

[waffles]

Wow. I am stunned.

[PapayaSF]

Oh lordy, we are doomed.

[Trigger Hippie]

I've beaten a Harvard graduate at a game of Trivial Pursuit and I'm not exactly the sharpest peanut in the turd.

As has been stated numerous times here, knowledge has become amazingly compartmentalized. This doesn't surprise me much at all.

[Atanarjuat]

sharpest peanut in the turd

Ow.

[BigT]

Preparation H is your friend

[BigT]

14% believe...

He didn't have sex with that woman
He didn't inhale
She couldn't remember
She didn't send classified documents
OJ was innocent
The grassy knoll shooter exists
Reason is a libertarian publication

[Rich]

Is Global Warming a Sign of the End Times?

No. Next question.

[The Fusionist]

Hey, Hollywood, this would make a great road-trip movie:

"Nine decades after his death, Maine Civil War veteran Jewett B. Williams returns home next week.

"Williams died in July 1922 at age 78 while he was a patient at Oregon State Hospital in Salem. His unclaimed cremated remains were among thousands of corroded copper canisters stored at the hospital for decades.

"On Monday, Aug. 1, a ceremony at the state hospital will hand his remains to the Patriot Guard Riders, who will escort Williams on a cross-country motorcycle ride to his resting place at the Togus National Cemetery in Chelsea, Maine."

[The Fusionist]

Interesting...the Patriot Guard Riders are the people who try to peacefully counteract the Westboro protesters at military funerals.

[Hyperion]

Guarantee you at least half of that 14% are evangelical doomsday folks. Been around them all my life. Not so much now, I've managed to escape. There is nothing they won't use as proof of their fantasies. The other half are warmer cultist. Nothing that group won't use as proof of their fantasies.

It's a safe bet to ignore all of the loony toons.

By the way, the world is ending today, polar flip. Drink!

[The Fusionist]

I'm from Chicago -- here's why Chicago deep dish pizza is the best

[Rufus The Monocled]

Well, as an Italian who has spent quite a lot of time in his life learning about his culture, I generally stay clear from these debates because...whatever. Things evolve but I do thing there's something to be said for what the Italians think.

BUT. To me (and no one asked), *technically* it's not pizza. It's a type of pizza. It's a thick dough with a bunch of stuff they happen to put on a pizza. Sorta like how a calzone or pignolata (and if you've never tried it you're a barbarian) or focaccia are not pizza. It's delicious and I enjoyed in Chicago but it's not pizza to a purist. It's an Italian-American spin on it. Which is to be appreciated on its own merit.

"There's actually a specific reason for this unconventional order. Because deep dish is larger than most pizza, it requires more time in the oven. If the cheese and other toppings weren't placed under the sauce, they would burn, so it's a protective measure.

Plus, because there's more emphasis on it, I find that deep dish uses fresher, better quality sauce than a lot of other pizza does."

Oh, fucking bull shit. It doesn't use 'fresher' ingredients. I make pizza all the time and frequent top notch pizza spots. Fresh Italian ingredients is the key to any Italian dish and deep dish doesn't have a monopoly on that.

Questo e una pizza! A bello!

http://tastefoodblog.com/2013/.....age-pizza/

[The Fusionist]

Well, if anyone can make broccoli taste good, it would be the Italians.

[Rufus The Monocled]

By the way, I say this not to spark a debate but to make my peace here...on Reason...a place I love...I think.

[Dilligaf]

Rufus, I think you should have just played the "Well, as an Italian..(Canadian).....*technically* it's not pizza" card. Stopping all possibility of the 700 comment flame wars which have been known to erupt these types of innocent comments. Privilege; after all what is the point of having such a thing if it can't be invoked to nip this kind of pointless debate and warfare in the bud, before it can go thermonuclear ?

[Rufus The Monocled]

Heh. As I was typing I was 'well, is this a good idea?'

BUT. I *could* be swayed if someone around here puts me in my place with a great rebuttal! There are plenty of knowledgeable people around these parts; and pizza lovers specifically.

[Dilligaf]

Yeah, tell me about aboot it buddy. (Canadien/Canadian autocorrect save). Trust me, I've been around these parts here long enough to have seen the elephant on that topic. Should I just call Mohammed a fag and throw in a pro 13th trimester abobo position while I am up for a trifecta? Curling season over up there already? Around 105 degrees down here. Somewhere below 54? 40' on the banks of the sweltering and sagebrush smoke scented Snake. I am just going to go ahead and go off of the reservation here and say it. The thing we call "pizza" is not so much a precisely definable thing so much as a general concept. Like stew or BBQ or authentic Thai stir fry or burritos or homemade bread. There are some outside parameters of course, but even the stuff the puristas aqui seem to love debating is all the product of culinary evolution. Even the most straight out an illegal-tuscan-basement anarcho-capitalist black market pizzeria/grappa distillery stuff. I haven't ever been there yet but.. I digress...

[Dilligaf]

Having never been to the city that gave us Obama or that other one that gave us Schumer, Bloomie, Hillary and company can't say I have had an honest to god best sampling of whatever the old rusty side of the continent has for this item. I have been to excellent places on the NW coast and I have made my own from scratch and I only will say. They were all good, but try as you may to keep a recipe "authentic" nothing will ever beat fresh,local and fresh ingredients. Tomatoes=still alive 5 hours ago, wheat=harvested by neighbor last month,basil,oregano=5 minutes old. Wine/=there are some really good local reds (Cabs,Pinots,Syrahs etc) but I usually skimp on this and go with Paisano. Also local cheese is good but not developed to the high art of the continent by virtue of USDA food regs in part. But what the fuck do I really know about this stuff? Barely even Italian all so I will concede the point. (8-12% +/-? 23 and me)

[Rufus The Monocled]

I hear ya. Good points all round.

[Dilligaf]

I am not one of those religious locavore hipster types BTW. There is just no substitute for fresh and in season is all.

[Pompey (91% LOLLOLZ)]

Appeal to authority foul! *blows whistle*

[Mr.Krinkle]

My vote for Best Pizza Ever generally goes to whatever happens to be on my plate at the time :p

[Rufus The Monocled]

I think that's probably the best way to approach it if you don't want to get caught up in such debates.

Go with the flow.

My friend from Boston is a pizza nut and considers deep dish to be pizza.

[BigT]

"Go with the flow."

And you are commenting on pizza sauce...

Phrasing!

[GamerFromJump]

I really liked Maxwell Street Pizza in San Bernardino when I was a kid. My brother and I would collect cans and turn them in, going there with the proceeds. They had a particularly spicy sauce, requiring cold drinks as accompaniment.

It was a rewarding way to end the summer.

[__Warren__]

And they wonder why people hate them...

[Suthenboy]

I guarantee that the average IQ of those cops is between 85 and 90.

[Rufus The Monocled]

What is this crap about police denying people access to their fucking medicine?

What's wrong with cops from a humanist perspective?

[DenverJ]

They are sociopaths?

[Gene]

Yep, fuck them.

[Pay up, Palin's Buttplug!]

It turns out that not insignficant percentages of Americans think that global warming is definitely or probably a sign of the approaching End Timeshttp://climatecommunication.yale.edu/[..]

Wanna try that again, Ron?

[Hyperion]

A few months ago, just for larfs, I went on the flat earth society site and talked with them. Yes, they really exist. They have warnings all over their site in all caps that if you come there to mock them, they will ban you from the forum straight away, so I had to be nice to them. They seriously believe that the earth is flat, and the sun is 3000 miles from the earth. What I asked them is if the earth is flat, how is it that we don't fall off? They say that once you reach the edge, you are really just going around in a circle or something and they have complex mathematical equations to prove how this works. Seriously. So that 14% of people think that doomsday is imminent via man made climate change is not too shocking.

[John Titor]

When people say they're smarter than the people of the past, just remember, some guy used shadows and math to figure out the circumference of the Earth over two millennia ago. We have morons on the internet who don't believe photo evidence of the Earth's curvature.

[Hyperion]

Makes you wonder how long people can go on believing in socialism and the benevolence of big government.

[PapayaSF]

Ah, but those beliefs are rooted in values and emotions, which are not correlated with brains or education.

[Suthenboy]

"They say that once you reach the edge, you are really just going around in a circle..."

Well...uh...actually that is how it works.

[Hyperion]

Yeah, only there's not an edge and the earth is actually a sphere and not a flat disk.

[0x90]

Ugh. I know a guy who has got caught up with that. It started with 9/11 is an inside job, then sandy hook, then just about everything -- NASA is a hoax, the moon landings, chemtrails, the whole ball of wax, leading up to the flat earth crap. It's both frustrating and fascinating, because you're looking at a person who has no trouble functioning day-to-day, but who simultaneously has a complete logical disconnect when it comes to certain topics.

If you think it's frustrating to try and convince some bleeding heart why central planning fails, and so forth, just imagine yourself in a place where you have to try and convince someone that the validity of the pythagorean theorem has nothing to do with whether pythagoras was the founder of the illuminati, or some similar bullshit.

[The Fusionist]

Male circumcision: the issue that ended my marriage
When her [Muslim] husband talked about having their two young sons circumcised, Mireille Thornton was horrified. It soon became an issue bigger than their love ?

[Akira]

I don't understand the difference between female circumcision (omg barbaric!!) and male circumcision (totally moar sanitary lol). Why not cut off children's ears? It's more sanitary, right? Why not rip out their fingernails with pliers at birth? It's more sanitary!

If the benefits of circumcision are so great, let the kid decide for himself when he's 18. He can make the doctor's appointment himself and get the foreskin hacked off if he wants.

[Jackand Ace]

I'm not sure what significance any of that has, Ronald, for the science department. So I will post science in regard to a warming planet. Greenland last a staggering 1trillion tons of ice in just a 4 year period.

"A satellite study, published last week in the journal Geophysical Research Letters, suggests that the Greenland ice sheet lost a whopping 1 trillion tons of ice between the years 2011 and 2014 alone. And a big portion of it came from just five glaciers, about which scientists now have more cause to worry than ever...It's the latest story in a long series of increasingly worrisome studies on ice loss in Greenland. Research already suggests that the ice sheet has lost at least 9 trillion tons of ice in the past century and that the rate of loss has increased over time."

And since scientists estimate that loss of Greenland ice might contribute to a 20 foot rise in sea level, scientists are concerned.

Seems like a more pertinent science article than what 14% of the public thinks, no?

[Jackand Ace]

Link

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....our-years/

[Jackand Ace]

By the way, note it was data from satellites. The only source acceptable to libertarians.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Right, which means that NOW the satellites are correct.

Also, if you read the actual study, instead of the filter provided by people with english lit degrees, you'll find the picture much more complex.

The CryoSat-2 measurements show that losses during the exceptionally warm summer of 2012 produced an annual ice deficit of 439???62 Gt, which dominated the total 4 year period. In contrast, 2013 saw only moderate losses of 116???65 Gt, which were approximately half the 2000?2011 mean [Shepherd et al., 2012].

What this means is that 2012 may have been an anomaly year, since it was the single year driving the entire four year period.

shorter: Don't hang your entire GW theory on a four year study.

[Jackand Ace]

Thanks Diane for what I guess you thought was some sort of cogent point. Let's quote the study.

"Comparing our mass loss and velocity measurements, we find that each of the five glaciers identified above has undergone a significant increase in velocity during the preceding decade (Figure 3b), suggesting that deficits in mass associated with these flow accelerations have continued throughout the duration of this study."

So it's a 10 year period that they are finding increased ice loss. Oh, and they make a point that 2012 was an exceptionally high temperature period. Guess what, smart guy?

Each year since then has been even warmer. I guess you think there will be a decrease in ice loss. Maybe you ought to let the authors now how they can't interpret data. Have a great weekend!

[CZmacure]

Guess what, smart guy?

I'm not sure if I'm smart, but I'm guessing that you're a douchebag of a troll.

[Jackand Ace]

By the way, note how the article says 9 trillion tons of ice have been lost in the last century. So much for your one year anomaly. What an idiot.

[DesigNate]

So now man made climate change has existed for a hundred years?

[PapayaSF]

116???65 G

Heck of an error bar you've got there.

[Jackand Ace]

Diane won't want to see this, but here is National Snow and Ice Data Center on 2016 ice loss in Greenland

"Greenland's Ice Sheet proceeded at a brisk pace, with three spikes in the melt extent in late spring. At this point, the pace rivals but is slightly behind the record surface melt and runoff year of 2012 (record since 1979), although ahead of the three preceding seasons."

See, Diane thinks 2012 was an anomaly, when it's just a foreshadowing of what is now normal.

[Jackand Ace]

Link

http://nsidc.org/greenland-today/

[Threedoor]

Good. It will be easier to salvage what left of the b17s that are under 250 feet of ice from the 40s.

[Hyperion]

So I will post science

I seriously doubt it.

[Jackand Ace]

Thanks. Note it was a study published in Geophysical Letters. I'm sure you think it's a political organization, but it's not. Have a great weekend!

[Hyperion]

Like I said...

[Jackand Ace]

...it was ignorance.

[Hyperion]

Nice to see you admit it, finally, have a nice recovery.

[Greg F]

I'm not sure what significance any of that has, Ronald, for the science department. So I will post science in regard to a warming planet. Greenland last a staggering 1trillion tons of ice in just a 4 year period.

You didn't post science, you posted crap from a newspaper.

http://www.nature.com/ngeo/jou.....o2689.html

[Jackand Ace]

No. It's a newspaper quoting a study in Geophysical Letters, a well known and respected science journal. But good try.

[PapayaSF]

Greenland has 2,850,000 cubic kilometers of ice. That's 2.6 ? 10^15 tons. Your assignment: assuming a loss rate of 250 billion tons a year, how long until Greenland has no ice?

[Jackand Ace]

Your assignment. Assuming a loss rate of just the ice in Greenland of 250 billion tons per year (but increasing rapidly in the last 10), mean you shouldn't be concerned about man changing the climate?

[Jackand Ace]

Assignment #2. Would all the ice in Greenland have to melt before you thought we were heading to a problem?

[Not an Economist]

I just find it interesting that Jackand Ace thinks that -- to put it into something maybe even he can understand -- a 165 lb person should panic over losing a little more than a 1/4 of an ounce a year in body weight.

[PapayaSF]

So then, not very "staggering"....

[Jackand Ace]

Yikes. Your comment says it all.

[Greg F]

No. It's a newspaper quoting a study in Geophysical Letters, a well known and respected science journal. But good try.

So your so stupid that you believe a journalist "quoting" a study is science. Idiot.

[Suthenboy]

"Greenland last a staggering 1trillion tons of ice in just a 4 year period."

Have you ever wondered why it is called Greenland?

[AlmightyJB]

I feel bad for them. I'm going to mail them some ice cubes.

[Dilligaf]

Iceland is greener by far and with a ton of hot springs to help compensate for the long winters. Timeless real estate speculation techniques never go out of style. I mostly blame Eric the Red for this. Much harder to find investors or colonists if your sales pitch is for a place called "Desolation Island","Starvation Mountain"or "Death Valley".

[BigT]

Antarctica is gaining ice faster than the Arctic is losing ice, of course. And the sea level is rising more slowly than it has in thousands of years. Not completely understood, but not in agreement with AGW.

[Jackand Ace]

"Sea ice surrounding Antarctica reached a new record high extent this year, covering more of the southern oceans than it has since scientists began a long-term satellite record to map sea ice extent in the late 1970s. The upward trend in the Antarctic, however, is only about a third of the magnitude of the rapid loss of sea ice in the Arctic Ocean."

Oops. Of course, you're wrong. But why not join your fellow commenters here on being uniformed.

[Jackand Ace]

Link

http://www.nasa.gov/content/go.....rd-maximum

[BigT]

NASA. Haha.

[DesigNate]

Wait, there's a uniform now? Nobody told me!

Man you guys suck.

[Brian]

The old "lost ice" story?

We've heard all that before.

Old news.

Fake scandal.

Big nothing burger.

Move on.org.

The hot thing this year is free college and paid maternity leave.

The whole lost ice thing is so 1990's.

[The Fusionist]

Strange things afoot in Roswell...Roswell, Georgia

The police department fired a cop for flying a Confederate flag in her yard.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Can't get a cop fired when they shoot an unarmed person in the back, but the confederate flag? That goes too far.

[Hyperion]

Yeah, she should have stuck to shooting puppies. I mean she could have shot black puppies, or even black men and nothing else would have happened.

[__Warren__]

How come we never talk about the dangers of Catastrophic Klimt Change?

[The Fusionist]

"She was just showing us her Klimt."

[Slammer]

"Everyone's see me wife's Klimt but me!"

[0x90]

Author bios:

- Connie Roser-Renouf is an Associate Research Professor at the Center for Climate Change Communication at George Mason University. Her research focuses on understanding how diverse publics interpret and respond to information on the issue of climate change. The objective of this research is the identification of effective communication strategies to inform and engage audiences.

Connie earned her PhD in Communication Research at Stanford University in 1986. Prior to joining the Center at George Mason, she taught and conducted research at the University of California at Santa Barbara; the University of Denver; the University of Pittsburgh; and Humboldt State University.

- Edward Maibach is a University Professor at George Mason University, and the Director of Mason's Center for Climate Change Communication. Ed's research ? funded by NSF, NASA and private foundations ? focuses on public engagement in climate change. Ed recently co-chaired the Engagement & Communication Working Group for the 3rd National Climate Assessment, and previously served as Associate Director of the National Cancer Institute, Worldwide Director of Social Marketing at Porter Novelli, and Chairman of the Board for Kidsave International. Ed earned his PhD in communication science at Stanford University and his MPH at San Diego State University.

[0x90]

(continued)

- Anthony Leiserowitz is an expert on American and international public opinion on global warming, including public perception of climate change risks, support and opposition for climate policies, and willingness to make individual behavioral change. His research investigates the psychological, cultural, political, and geographic factors that drive public environmental perception and behavior. He has conducted survey, experimental, and field research at scales ranging from the global to the local, including international studies, the United States, individual states (Alaska and Florida), municipalities (New York City), and with the Inupiaq Eskimo of Northwest Alaska. He also conducted the first empirical assessment of worldwide public values, attitudes, and behaviors regarding global sustainability, including environmental protection, economic growth, and human development. He has served as a consultant to the John F. Kennedy School of Government (Harvard University), the United Nations Development Program, the Gallup World Poll, the Global Roundtable on Climate Change at the Earth Institute (Columbia University), and the World Economic Forum. For a CV and more info, please visit his faculty page.

[0x90]

(continued)

- Seth [Rosenthal] serves as research methodologist at YPCCC, with a particular focus on survey methodology. Before joining YPCCC in August 2013, he was Director of Opinion Research at Merriman River Group, where he specialized in election and issues-based opinion polling. Seth has also been the lead author of the annual National Leadership Index report published by the Center for Public Leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School. Seth holds a B.A. in psychology from Wesleyan University, and an A.M. and Ph.D. in experimental psychopathology from the Department of Psychology at Harvard. He was also a post-doctoral research fellow at the Center for Public Leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School. Seth has published research on narcissism, self-esteem, positive intergroup attitudes, and leadership.

[This Machine Chips Fascists]

They seem qualified to run a propaganda operation.

[Dennis, Constitutional Peasant]

Climate Change Communication

In other words, these people aren't interested in the actual stuff of "climate science" ....

....so much as "opinions, perceptions, values, attitudes, and behaviors " about it...

.and consequently how to shape them.

"Climate change" often seems to me just a very-convenient bottomless pit into which which publicly-funded research dollars will be thrown

Its the perpetual-motion-machine of academic funding. It can't ever be studied enough, and then we need to study the studies, and then study people's opinions of the study. At a certain point, the underlying reality of the issue becomes irrelevant. The amount of time and resources devoted to the topic becomes so overwhelming that it *requires* the underlying problem to be immense and immeasurable.

[This Machine]

Well said.

[SIV]

If only there was a political candidate, running for the highest office in the land, who believes all that climate "science" is nothing more than a crock of shit.

[DenverJ]

Hitler?

[PapayaSF]

I would not go that far, because I think the science has more to it than that. There is a basis for much of the science. But much is not known, and the alarmists have been proven wrong time and again. I think there's something to it (I'm a "luke-warmist"), but it's undeniable that the cause has been latched onto by the socialist/world government types as the latest excuse for what they have always wanted to do. And for modern secular types, it plays the same psychological role that original sin plays for Christians.

[SIV]

I totally reject untestable and unrepeatable science and I'm highly skeptical of the other kind.

[PapayaSF]

There are different kinds of testability. Nobody doubts that astronomy is a science, even though were can't toss planets and stars around for experiments.

[This Machine Chips Fascists]

Someone doesn't fucking love science.

[NoVaNick]

But think of the jobs Climate Change Communications will create for lit majors, who may otherwise be forced to work as baristas, soon to be replaced by robots.

[Threedoor]

I welcome the new robot baristas, they won't kill my shots.

[Ken Shultz]

There are so many people who believe that the world will be destroyed by human greed and global warming, and even among those who think that can be avoided, most of them believe that the only solution is to willingly sacrifice our standard of living.

When people believe that the problem is real and the only solution is to destroy our own prosperity, then it's only natural to see nothing but doom.

The climate change deniers are even worse in their own way--because they put the emphasis on opposing the science rather than emphasizing that sacrificing our standard of living isn't the long term solution to anything.

I always point out that they disbelieve the science because they want to avoid authoritarian and socialist solutions, but there's probably actually more to it than that. I suspect many of them don't really believe in the problem solving capabilities of freedom and capitalism--they secretly think the only solutions are authoritarianism and socialism, too.

[Suthenboy]

I dont oppose science its just that there is very little of it regarding this issue, and the precious little there is shows no climate change that is statistically abnormal. Whatever amount humans are influencing it is insignificant and certainly not worth the great evils that would result in our destroying our prosperity.

Maybe the squirrels won't eat this one.

[Ken Shultz]

If you say so.

But if new data becomes available tomorrow showing that the problem is real, are you suddenly going to start backing authoritarian and socialist solutions?

I mean, the threat of authoritarian and socialist solutions to your standard of living must have some impact on your thinking about the science--subconsciously or otherwise.

Do you have a strong feeling one way or the other about string theory?

[thrakkorzog]

I'm not an expert on string theory, but from what I've read it is a nice idea, but it's not falsifiable, at least at the moment. So far the climate predictions have been wrong time and again, so I don't have a high degree of respect for such predictions.

And I will admit that a large amount of my suspicions are due to the statist nature of most the people complaining about climate change. After all, if a bunch of socons argued that porn causes rapes, so we shouldban porn, then I would be extra suspicious of their data.

[Ken Shultz]

"And I will admit that a large amount of my suspicions are due to the statist nature of most the people complaining about climate change."

Yeah, that's my problem, too.

And if the left were advocating authoritarian and socialist solutions to problems associated with the possibility of string theory, it's the authoritarian and socialist solutions that would really bother me.

Regardless of what the scientific consensus said about string theory.

So why are we worried about the scientific consensus if our positions don't change regardless of what the scientific consensus says?

If we're against invading Iraq regardless of whether Saddam Hussein has WMD, whether Saddam Hussein has WMD doesn't really make a difference. However, given the way the statists sell things, if we base our primary objections to what they're selling on the contention that they haven't found any WMD climate change yet, aren't people likely to dismiss our objections if and when they find something?

If someone wants to use climate change as an excuse to slash government spending, slash taxes, etc., I'm certainly not about to object because of the science. We expend a lot of effort fighting them over a red herring.

[Suthenboy]

If new data becomes available showing it is a real problem then I will admit that it is a real problem. After a half century of these political activists masquerading as scientists and being wrong every single time I see little chance of that happening.

No, I will not advocate authoritarian measures.

I have strong feelings about the authoritarian measures they are cramming down our throats but none about the science.

[Ken Shultz]

"I have strong feelings about the authoritarian measures they are cramming down our throats but none about the science."

That's the way it is for me, too.

It's like everything else. I have a qualitative preference for capitalism and freedom.

If the honest to god truth is that the Second Amendment does make for more violent crime, I want to keep the Second Amendment anyway. The solutions they're proposing to climate change are riddled with qualitative considerations, too.

The questions we should be asking are things like: How much we will need to sacrifice in GDP per capita to fix the problem according to your model?

Will your solution destroy our standard of living?

According to your model, how long will we need to keep making those sacrifices before we see the very first impact of our sacrifices on the climate?

Will it happen in our lifetime? In our grandchildren's lifetime? Hundreds of years from now?

They have round estimates to some of these questions, but they don't talk about them a great deal because if the public knew the answers, they'd turn their backs on the left's solutions. If we want to crush authoritarian and socialist thinking on climate change, those are the questions we should be focusing on--maybe not dickering so much over the science of climate change, the verdict on which could come in either way in the future.

[Ken Shultz]

In fact, even if there were no evidence for climate change, I'm not sure that alone would justify doing nothing.

I can't prove that my house will burn down sometime in the future, but that doesn't mean I'm irrational to buy fire insurance.

An important factor in that rational choice is cost. The low cost of fire insurance is what makes buying insurance reasonable relative to the risk--even if the risk of fire is very low.

It isn't just about whether the risk is 100%. Even if you think there is no evidence of climate change now, certainly there is some level of risk in the future.

But you don't just look at the risk in rational risk analysis. It's also about cost.

How much do the authoritarian and socialist solutions to this risk cost?

If we're not thinking about the risk in terms of the cost of mitigation for it, then we're being irrational.

If they're charging me more for a fire insurance policy than it would cost me to finance the rebuilding of my house, then buying that insurance policy is irrational.

The average person you meet has no idea how much it would cost us to fix climate change, and they've never even considered the fact that the worst possible scenario is the one where we make giant sacrifices in our standard of living but it isn't enough to prevent the worst case scenario in the climate change models.

[NoVaNick]

Problem is that ANY sacrifice we make will never be enough, and ANY cost we pay will be too low according to the doomsayers. The Paris conference was centered around keeping it below 2 degrees C in by 2050 and even then, the "experts" said the emissions targets would not get us there. Basically, all CO2 emissions would have to end tomorrow, and even that would not stop the warming because there is so much CO2 already in the atmosphere, and it will take hundreds of years to get back to pre-industrial levels. No way you can insure against this.

At the other end of the spectrum, farmers do insure against crop losses from "climate change" because they know droughts or flooding will occur at some point (microscale climate change), but this is very different.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

14 percent doesn't seem that high actually.

That tells you that the 14 percent have a pretty big voice in the debate.

[The Fusionist]

Leaked emails show DNC meetings with anti-religious freedom project

"Two May 16 emails from DNC lead staffers, titled "Who do you want at the religious exemption research meeting?", discuss a presentation from the Movement Advancement Project, an LGBT advocacy group which has challenged religious freedom protections as harmful.

"The emails follow up on an April 11 email from Mike Gehrke, vice president of the Benenson Strategy Group consulting firm, to DNC communications director Luis Miranda and Mark Paustenbach, the DNC's deputy communications director and national press secretary....

"Gehrke's April 11 message said that the research to be presented to the DNC leaders was a 501c3 project "independent of any of the message work we have done on campaigns." He said no candidate or specific situation would be presented."

[The Fusionist]

"Gehrke said his colleague Amy Levin has been working with the Movement Advancement Project "over the past couple years" to develop "messaging and creative executions around religious exemptions laws" such as Religious Freedom Restoration Acts....

"Levin followed up in an April 12 message to Miranda, the DNC's communication director: "glad to hear you are interested. We've been able to do a really deep dive with this research which, once all synthesized [and] boiled down, led to very clear (if sometimes surprising!) message and target imperatives.""

[The Fusionist]

File this story under "what if Donald Trump was getting briefings on messaging strategy from a 501(c)(3)?"

[The Fusionist]

I bet the Libertarian candidate will be all over this scandal, it's a perfect opportunity to pick up the votes of conservatives!

/sarc

[Derpetologist]

Spot the Not: Hillary's nom speech

1. And you know what, if fighting for affordable child care and paid family leave is playing the "woman card," then Deal Me In!

2. I'm not here to repeal the 2nd Amendment. I'm not here to take away your guns.

3. And though "we may not live to see the glory," as the song from the musical Hamilton goes, "let us gladly join the fight."

4. Bernie Sanders and I will work together to make college tuition-free for the middle class and debt-free for all! We will also liberate millions of people who already have student debt.

5. Unlike Donald Trump, I care about the middle class and will make sure the rich pay their fair share.

6. We have the most tolerant and generous young people we've ever had.

[AlmightyJB]

2

[Rhywun]

LOL that's the one line I remember, due to the vodka that sprayed out of my nose.

[The Fusionist]

5

[Derpetologist]

You win! Your choice of a date with Lena Dunham or being hit in the lips with a dead rat while you sleep.

[The Fusionist]

Dare I ask what the losers get?

[Trigger Warning]

Sex with Dunham. She will be dressed in a rat costume.

[Dennis, Constitutional Peasant]

this is a rerun from last night.

I presume i was wrong then. I will go with 2.

[Derpetologist]

No one played the first time.

[Derpetologist]

Bonus quotes:

America is stronger because of President Obama's leadership, and I'm better because of his friendship.

We will not build a wall. Instead, we will build an economy where everyone who wants a good paying job can get one.

We will not ban a religion.

I get it that some people just don't know what to make of me.

Look at my record. I've worked across the aisle to pass laws and treaties and to launch new programs that help millions of people.

[The Fusionist]

"We will not ban a religion."

Of course not, people can believe whatever they want, so long as they don't act on their beliefs.

[Pay up, Palin's Buttplug!]

#2 is circulating all over Facebook...

[Derpetologist]

I didn't watch the speech, but I presume she waved her hand through air like she was doing a Jedi mind trick when she said that.

[commodious so caught up in you]

Derp, would you mind dropping me a line? Address is in the handle. I have a few questions for you.

[Derpetologist]

line dropped.

[The Fusionist]

Protectionist writes in WND that Lincoln supported high tariffs while Karl Marx was a free-trader

[Stoic]

If the fundamentalist Christians in my family are any indicator -- EVERYTHING is a sign of the end times. My brother-in-law's facebook is full of links to news stories about "natural disasters," including stuff like 4.3 magnitude earthquakes. He also got interested in bitcoin because he believes it is the "one world currency" that is supposedly a sign of the end times.

[commodious so caught up in you]

What about the mark of the beast? It's tramp stramps, isn't it?

[PapayaSF]

In the '70s it was UPC codes.

[Akira]

In 2006, I was dating a girl who was nonreligious but pretended to be Christian to appease her religious wackjob parents. When her father found out I wasn't Christian, he forbade me from seeing her again with the reasoning that "the end times are too near, and I can't risk my daughter being thrown into hell for associating with nonbelievers."

Seems that his estimations were a bit off, huh? I could have been banging his daughter for at least another ten years. (of course, we kept seeing each other behind his back for a while).

[Sevo]

"Hillary Clinton Campaign Hacked as Part of DNC Cyber Attacks"
[...]
"A computer data program used by Hillary Clinton's campaign was hacked, the campaign said Friday in the latest revelation in a series of cyber-attacks on Democratic Party properties...."
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us.....rt-n620051

Of course this one wasn't nearly as secure as that one in the hall closet maintained by the kid from down the street.

[Dennis, Constitutional Peasant]

A computer data program used by Hillary Clinton's campaign was hacked

a 'computer data program'

not to be confused with 'software application systems', or 'information cloud technology' or other very high-important machine-tech which we adults use down at the business factory

serious stuff

[Sevo]

G, that was written by someone whose knowledge of computers amounts to 'turn it off and back on'.

[But Enough About Me]

In other words, most help-desk staff.

[PapayaSF]

LOL. You can be a very funny guy.

[Brian]

See, what happened is these Russian guys walked in to Hillary's campaign headquarters to use the bathroom.

After they left, the party cock suckers realized all their toilet paper and the bathroom data servers were completely missing.

[Hyperion]

World to end in less than 5 hours, EST. Everyone drank!

World Ends Today!

BTW, if any of you want someone to take your stuff, I mean, if it's good stuff, I'll take a look at it.

[Rhywun]

I'm drank and woke.

[Suthenboy]

Of course it is a sign of the end times...the end times for the latest ice age.

[The Fusionist]

2nd Circuit federal court reinstates male Columbia student's sex-discrimination lawsuit: He can go to trial on his claim that they discriminated against him as a male in conducting its rape "trial" against him

[The Fusionist]

Well, instead of "go to trial" I should say "go to further hearings and then perhaps to trial."

[Stormy Dragon]

Deep down, many people secretly believe that the whole of human civilization has been leading up to their life and they are really the most important person to ever exist. Naturally this means the apocalypse must occur during their lives, because what would be the point of existence continuing after they're gone?

[Dennis, Constitutional Peasant]

We believe in nothing, lebowski

[Wasteland Wanderer]

Nihilists! Fuck me. I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.

[SQRLSY One]

The Very Universe exists as my toy play-thing, and when I am gone, it all goes ****POOOOFFF!!!!****

DEAL with it, Storm Unt Drangon!!!

[Suthenboy]

Of course, otherwise why would I be at the center of the universe everywhere I go. No matter where I stand I see the edges of the universe around me in 360 degrees. If I move towards one of the edges it moves away from me, keeping me at its center always. I must be pretty damned important.

[Suthenboy]

What I should have said is + 1 cemetery filled with indispensable men.

[BigT]

"WEWS reports that Jones, a black Vietnam War veteran and avid Donald Trump supporter, was having a conversation with his friend about the presidential candidate when an unknown male butted in. Cleveland police then say that the argument got so tense that the male went to his car, came back with a gun and shot Jones."

Another tolerant leftist.

http://m.clevescene.com/scene-.....veland-bar

[PapayaSF]

You see how Trump inspires violence?? See??

[NoVaNick]

In 1000 years, if not far sooner, I predict that the new testament will have been revised with Rachel Carson replacing Jesus, and Al Gore replacing Peter. The Vatican will have relocated to New Haven or Cambridge.

[Dilligaf]

You surely don't mean New Haven Ct and Cambridge Ma (at 60 and 40 feet above MSL respectively) do you? Unless this is some sort of futuristic underwater sea-lab type Vatican. We should assume that by then very little of the collective wisdom compiled at these places will be available for perusal by our descendants. Possibly in as little as 400 years to as many as 12,000 on the outside. Good luck touring historic New Haven and Cambridge when you have down to dive down to 1000+ feet to see them, future neo-neo-lithic-cave-dwelling peeps. I don't know a whole lot about all this, since Al Gor just discovered this stuff pretty recently, but I FEEL that the answer is for everyone to just to stop all this partisan climate denial stuff, and let the government finally take care of things from here on out. It has to be the only solution. The one thing we do know about the political class is that are less likely to be distracted by short term distractions like debt or over-regulation or executive power grabs. Because those things will never happen in our lifetime.

[karleenasherrill]

I've made $64,000 so far this year working online and I'm a full time student. Im using an online business opportunity I heard about and I've made such great money. It's really user friendly and I'm just so happy that I found out about it. Heres what I do,

???????? http://UsatodayJobs.Nypost55.com

[justinenhendley]

$89 an hour! Seriously I don't know why more people haven't tried this, I work two shifts, 2 hours in the day and 2 in the evening?And i get surly a chek of $1260......0 whats awesome is Im working from home so I get more time with my kids.
Here is what i did

?????? http://UsatodayJobs.Nypost55.com

[But Enough About Me]

Is Global Warming a Sign of the End Times?

God, I hope so. Otherwise I'll have to go back to praying for the extinction-level asteroid strike.

[Cloudbuster]

14% of people believe that most social science is reliable, methodologically sound, and predictive.

[sjohnsonvirginia]

I've made $64,000 so far this year working online and I'm a full time student. Im using an online business opportunity I heard about and I've made such great money. It's really user friendly and I'm just so happy that I found out about it. Heres what I do,

--------------- http://UsatodayJobs.Nypost55.com