Gun Rights

The Cleveland Police Union’s Worrying Contempt for the Second Amendment

A governor cannot and should not simply suspend laws.

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Cleveland Police
Paul Hennessy/Polaris/Newscom

Given the recent string of brutal cop killings across the country, it is perhaps not the best time to criticize American police forces. Nevertheless, Cleveland's police, at the very least, are very worthy of censure, if for no other reason than the head of that city's police union recently declared a dangerous and reprehensible opposition to the American constitutional order.

In the shadow of the Republican National Convention, the president of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association signaled in no uncertain terms that he, and presumably the union of which he the head, was contemptuous of not merely one or two enumerated rights of the American people but of the very foundation of American government itself.

Responding to the perceived threat of "open-carry" gun owners at the Republican National Convention in Cleveland, Stephen Loomis demanded earlier this week that Gov. John Kasich subvert the Constitution by way of executive order.

"I don't care if it's constitutional or not at this point," he said. "They can fight about it after the RNC or they can lift it after the RNC, but I want [Kasich] to absolutely outlaw open-carry in Cuyahoga County until this RNC is over."

"We are constitutional law enforcement," he added, "we love the Constitution, support it and defend it, but you can't go into a crowded theater and scream fire. And that's exactly what they're doing by bringing those guns down there."

This is an intellectually and politically indefensible travesty. Leaving aside the tiresome and inept "fire in a crowded theater" analogy, consider what Loomis proposed: that American citizens exercising their constitutional rights by way of a perfectly legal activity are somehow analogous to criminals. This would be a bad-enough comparison, but Loomis managed to top himself by demanding that Kasich deliberately undermine the Constitution and the constitutional order he swore to uphold.

Governor Kasich, to his credit, refused to do so, correctly noting that he is unable to do so: the code of Ohio thankfully does not permit sedition against the United States government. Nevertheless, the whole episode serves to highlight the troubling authoritarian impulses of a great many police departments across the United States. In many localities, for all intents and purposes, the police no longer work for you.

In Cleveland, the police have apparently abdicated even the mere appearance of subordination to civil authority: It is hard to think of a more perfect example of embryonic American despotism than "I don't care if it's constitutional or not."

None of which is to say that the police had it easy in Cleveland. Police departments across the country are rightfully on edge, and the Republican National Convention was likely to be a high-tension affair, with Trump busy burning down what's left of the Republican Party (and Chris Christie probably throwing sofas through the lobby windows of the Hyatt Regency). Were Cleveland police nervous? Sure. Did they have reason to be? You bet.

None of this justifies scrapping the Constitution, however, even for the briefest of moments. Solely from a practical perspective, there is nothing to fear from openly-carried firearms; anyone in a state with liberal carry laws can tell you as much. More to the point: It is legal for residents of Cleveland to carry their guns out in the open, and even our fraught and high-tension political moment does not justify imposing extraconstitutional martial law on innocent American citizens.

The police should know better. That they do not is deeply troubling, and a sign that the problems between the police and the American public are much deeper than they appear. Thank goodness that Kasich recognized the limits of his authority. Let us hope the police are capable of doing the same.

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69 responses to “The Cleveland Police Union’s Worrying Contempt for the Second Amendment

  1. The police are trying to start a ‘war on guns’ now that the war on drugs is dying down. It’s not hard to understand.

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    2. A war on SOME guns, maybe–certainly not theirs. This is kinda like a war on SOME drugs–the enjoyable ones liquor, cigarette, and Wizened Christian Tea-totalitarian Union lobbyists don’t want non-minions to have.

  2. Governor Kasich, to his credit, refused to do so, correctly noting that he is unable to do so…

    And if he had been able? It’s a small leap to banning guns from trying to ban Fargo.

    1. Really? I would think the next logical step after Fargo would be woodchippers.

      Thanks Stormare.

    2. What would Macy do for residuals?

    3. Just because he was “unable” doesn’t mean he couldn’t have declared a ban anyway. Like Loomis said, “They can fight about it after the RNC.”

  3. but you can’t go into a crowded theater and scream fire

    Come back when I can walk in to a crowded theater and there are glass boxes on the wall with loaded guns inside that say, “Break glass in case of self defense.”, then we’ll talk.

  4. Cops are getting dumber by the minute. Stephen Loomis should be fired immediately for complete and utter incompetence.

  5. Cops are getting dumber by the minute. Stephen Loomis should be fired immediately for complete and utter incompetence.

  6. you can’t go into a crowded theater and scream fire. And that’s exactly what they’re doing by bringing those guns down there.

    I don’t think this guy knows how guns work.

    1. Actually, now I agree. Weirding modules really should be banned from theaters.

      1. “weirding modules” were such a distortion of the original Dune book. They were just too lazy to teach their actors some unarmed combat moves,because that IS what the Bene Gesserit “weirding way” was,some form of unarmed combat.

        1. I saw a fan produced stage version at a Con decades back that was better.

  7. Oh thank god, a post that doesn’t contain Trump’s ugly mug.

  8. More breaking news:

    Main train station in Munich being shut down. Cop communication intercepted; “Do not take any pictures. Let’s not let anyone know what is what is going on and what we are seeing.”

    1. I wonder if this won’t be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. Even a brainwashed population of progs like the krauts have their limits. Maybe Merkel will get on television with her smirk and proclaim that more unregulated immigration through open borders is an undiluted good. That more is better.

      Also, more reports of unspecified violence around the city.

      1. Speaking of which, where it Cytotoxic?

        1. Summer school.

        2. He’s been around lately. Was in a thread last night I believe.

          Or maybe I didn’t understand what you meant by “where”.

          “Canada” would be the other possible answer to that question.

    2. Three people killed and killers on the loose.

      Asking for cooperation is not a bad idea – you don’t want the fugitives to know what the cops are doing/planning.

    3. It was in another part of Germany where one of Merkel’s judges convicted a couple for running a blog where non-violent protest was made against muslim immigration. Suspended sentence, with the actual threat that sentence would be carried out if they denigrated muslims again.

  9. Stephen Loomis inspired the meaning of a Cleveland Steamer. True story.

  10. there is nothing to fear from openly-carried firearms; anyone in a state with liberal carry laws can tell you as much.

    The argument I’m getting from people opposed to open-carry is, you can’t tell if the shooter has ill-intent until he starts pulling the trigger. With liberal open-carry, the shooter is able to get himself situated in the best possible place to do the worst possible damage, and you can’t preempt his maneuvering because open-carry forbids the police from interfering.

    1. And gun-free zones do what, precisely? Other than ensure that everyone else in the area is unarmed?

      Also, concealed carry would fall prey to the same “argument”, only you wouldn’t know they had a gun until they, wait for it, start pulling the trigger.

      1. My guess is this.

        With no legal open-carry, it’s much harder to carry a long gun, aka, an “Assault Rifle” under your coat. You can only realistically carry a handgun. Since Assault rifles are responsible for all the really bad mass shootings, you’d make an impact on people killed in mass-shootings by assault rifles.

        As has been previously discussed, the gun-control forces have moved away from the 1980s where banning the small, concealable “saturday night special” and are now actively promoting them.

        1. You carry it in a gun case. One of them large metal or plastic bricks that looks like pretty much any standard carrying case.

        2. Oh, and open carry typically refers to handguns.

          Lots of places allow the open carry of rifles. California did finally outlaw it in cities, 2012.

          1. Someone out there makes a soft case for an AR fifteen that looks shockingly like a large tennis racket bag. I can’t find it online, but it’s specifically designed to look non-tactical and therefore avoid the direct-all-bullets-here problem when you’re carrying it.

            Understand, I’m not making the argument, I’m guessing what the argument is.

            But even in the case, it takes you a few moments to start shooting.

        3. Do you recall whatever happened to the rage about Uzis, Tec-9s, and MP5s? Were they just associated with drive-bys/gangs and relegated to just symptoms of social problems rather than being extra panic-inducing because (more) concealable and assault-y?

          1. Yes, and they don’t have bayonet lugs.

          2. the “firepower” of a TEC-9 is NO different than that of a Glock 9 mm handgun,because both are semi-auto handguns,both can accept a 30 round magazine (33 for the Glock ! ). Pretty much the same barrel length,so the same bullet velocity from either one.
            the TEC-9 was on the AWB list because it LOOKED LIKE a “machine gun”,and had an “evil-looking” barrel shroud. (a cosmetic add-on,made it look like it had a “silencer” on it.)

            Uzis sold in the US were mostly all semi-auto copies,and the MP-5 is an expensive machine gun that wasn’t sold to civilians. FBI has had a few stolen from them,though.
            the old MAC-10/11 machine pistols were ones used by gangs.
            There was a guy in Australia who made a few hundred of them from scratch in his home shop (complete with suppressors),was selling them to Aussie gangs before the police caught him. they were VERY good copies,precision-made.

        4. Many Gun Control advocates are willing to concede the good points of guns they aren’t actually talking about banning right this minute. Such good points vanish the moment the conversation turns to a strategy to get THOSE guns banned.

          It’s kind of like the way that “Environmental Activists” are always talking about alternative energy. You know; any means of generating electricity that is nowhere near being economically practical.

        5. you can fit a 33 round magazine in a Glock 9 mm pistol. that’s as much “firepower” as an AR-15 or other “assault weapon”. or you can use a FN FiveSeven pistol that has 20 round magazines,like the Ft. Hood killer used. If you really wanted to beat their “assault weapon” law,you could make an illegal shoulder stock for your Glock or FiveSeven,to turn it into a very effective short-barreled carbine.(and better control it’s recoil and muzzle flip.) And still fit the gun under your coat.

  11. It raises the more important question: If they’ve got so much contempt for one amendment to the Constitution, how much of the rest of it do they support?

    The Law Enforcement Oath of Honor, according to this site includes the line “I will always uphold the constitution.” Do Cleveland police take this oath? What about their union reps?

    How much push-back can the officers themselves engage in if their union reps act like this? Can an officer say “no, I will not do this because I swore to uphold the Constitution.” Would the union protect their job then, like they do in practically every other case? If the Nuremberg defense is unacceptable for uniformed services, why would it be acceptable for our increasingly militarized police forces? “I violated your constitutional and civil rights because I was ordered to do so” is unacceptable, but how much of the public thinks so?

    1. Listen, Zero, sometimes you have to destroy the Constitution in order to save the Constitution.

    2. Serpico.

    3. Simple solution:

      – FIre the police chief. No golden parachute, boot prints on ass.
      – De-certify the police union.
      – Cancel the current contract.
      – 50% pay cut across the board for police officers.
      – Tell them “when you learn to respect the Constitution, you’ll get your pay back.”

      If they persist, RICO what’s left of the union.

      1. Ah, but that would require a Politician with guts, and Teddy Roosevelt is dead.

  12. Something something NOT A SUICIDE PACT.

  13. Also, “embryonic American despotism” is a lovely turn of phrase for a really ugly problem.

  14. It’s a small leap to banning guns from trying to ban Fargo.

    You misspelled FAYGO.

    I wants my purple drank!

    1. Sizzurp is a hell of a drug. Also, RAAAAASCIST.

    2. Obviously you weren’t around for the great woodchipper censoring.

  15. You carry it in a gun case. One of them large metal or plastic bricks that looks like pretty much any standard carrying case.

    Or- looks exactly like a gun case.

    I use a canvas “rigger’s [tool] bag” to carry my pistols, instead of something that screams, “Gun case.”

    1. Exactly. People are beginning to move away from the everything-tacticool gear. Because people are beginning to realize it screams “shoot me first!”.

      1. Police officer: “It’s a gun case until proven otherwise. Open it up, or I shoot you in self defense.”

    2. My hard cases for rifles look exactly like hard cases for guitars.

      1. I add to that effect by putting band stickers on it. I’ve carried mine on the bus in Philly and no body blinked.

        1. A word to the wise… avoid Grateful Dead and Jimi Hendrix stickers…

  16. It should be noted that Loomis is a longtime gigantic asshole and representative of the just-recently-federally-beat-down Cleveland Police.

    The Cleveland Police that presided over the short-notice million+ parade and the much longer-lead RNC really did a pretty damn good job. The chief has been front-and-center personally trying to keep the peace between huge groups of total assholes screaming at one another. Hopefully, this is the Cleveland Police we see going forward – Cleveland Police who don’t shit themselves because people can open-carry and Cleveland Police who seem to be repairing their relationship with the citizens.

    I’ve been very, very critical of the Cleveland Police, and obviously the Tamir Rice shooting (and the East Cleveland chase-and-shootout) have been prime examples of why they could not be trusted. When I went downtown with my wife for the Cavs parade, I was actually a bit worried about how the cops would react. What I saw was very encouraging.

    Loomis is a relic and a leftover. He can go fuck himself.

    1. Then why haven’t they pulled his badge and gun? You don’t have to be an active cop to be president of the union.

  17. I don’t disagree with your premise. However, anyone who did open carry in the convention environs was a fool. On the news, I saw a biker with a long gun. He may have made a point but that was even stupider. The gun was in his hands and his finger was close to the trigger. That’s having the drop without reason. Who would willingly stand in front of him?

  18. “We are constitutional law enforcement,” he added, “we love the Constitution, support it and defend it

    Um…

    “I don’t care if it’s constitutional or not at this point,”

    He doesn’t know what words mean. I blame public schooling…and Bush.

    1. Most the time it seems to me the “can’t yell fire in a crowded theater” line is accompanied by a ridiculous argument or assertion. He should have added people who disagree with him are racist and homophobic. And then added “some of (his) best friends are black.” There would be no way to disagree with him after that.

      1. You forgot that he also needs to self-identify as a transsexual wom*not.

        There’s always room to deride someone if your a progtard. You just have to look (aka pulling shit out of your ass) hard enough.

        1. Damn auto correct. Wom*not should just be wom*n.

          1. Yeah, that makes things SO much clearer.

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  20. George Waffen Bush enticed those cops with promises of easy asset-forfeiture looting on “good faith” assertions that they thought they smelled hemp, or their doggie barked, or whutevah… stand and deliver or we kill you. So OF COURSE this included confiscating mortgaged homes and bank accounts. So, OF COURSE money fled the banks and securities markets and the economy collapsed–as in 1929, 1933, 1987… Realization dawned, and States hurried to repeal more of prohibition, but the damage was done and the DemoGOP is lying about how. This further postpones true understanding of the mechanism whereby unproductive looter hands bring about the ruin of nations as explained in 1775.
    The police, like the citizenry, were manipulated by venal, rent-seeking, bipartisan kleptocracy politicians. Karma is catching up.

  21. Were Cleveland police nervous? Sure. Did they have reason to be? You bet Not at all.

    The last number I saw was 25 arrests over 4 days at the RNC- and the biggest incident I saw was Westboro Baptist and BLM (both non-Republicans!) throwing bottles of piss at each other.

    How many “open-carry” people were arrested? How many shot somebody? How many did the cops find it necessary to shoot?

    I’m thinking the DNC is going to be much more contentious…

  22. Marxists and Islamists who infect our federal government plus the media prostitutes who protect them will gleefully lie, falsify, fabricate, slander, libel, deceive, delude, bribe, and treasonably betray the free citizens of the United States into becoming an unarmed population. Unarmed populations have been treated as slaves and chattel since the dawn of history.

    The Second Amendment foes lying about gun control – Firearms are our constitutionally mandated safeguard against tyranny by a powerful federal government.

    Only dictators, tyrants, despots, totalitarians, and those who want to control and ultimately to enslave you support gun control.

    No matter what any president, senator, congressman, or hard-left mainstream media hookers tell you concerning the statist utopian fantasy of safety and security through further gun control: They are lying. If their lips are moving, they are lying about gun control. These despots truly hate America..

    American Thinker

    1. These tyrants hate freedom, liberty, personal responsibility, and private property. But the reality is that our citizens’ ownership of firearms serves as a concrete deterrent against despotism. They are demanding to hold the absolute power of life and death over you and your family. Ask the six million Jews, and the other five million murdered martyrs who perished in the Nazi death camps, how being disarmed by a powerful tyranny ended any chances of fighting back. Ask the murdered martyrs of the Warsaw Ghetto about gun control.

      Their single agenda is to control you after you are disarmed. When the people who want to control you hold the absolute power of life and death over your family, you have been enslaved.

      Will we stand our ground, maintaining our constitutionally guaranteed Second Amendment rights, fighting those who would enslave us?

  23. Yes, pretty much the same barrel length,so the same bullet velocity from either one.


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