Hillary Clinton Proposes Free College Tuition, Won't Explain How to Pay for It
Bernie Sanders likes it. Will taxpayers?


Presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton is taking a page out of rival Bernie Sanders' playbook, proposing her own plan for "free" college tuition—free for students, that is, but presumably quite costly for someone else.
The new and improved Clinton plan would offer free tuition to students attending public universities whose families make less than $85,000 a year. By 2021, the plan would expand to cover everyone making under $125,000 a year, according to The Wall Street Journal.
Sanders loves the idea. So does Clinton:
"American families are drowning in debt caused by ever-rising college costs and it is imperative that the next president put forward a bold plan to make debt-free college available to all," she said.
It is not clear how many additional families would get free tuition under the modified version compared with the original Clinton plan. The campaign also didn't say how much the new version would cost or how she would pay for it.
There's really only one way to pay for it, of course: pass the cost onto someone else. As with President Obama's community college plan, "free" is an appealing price, to be sure, but nothing is actually free.
I'm also not convinced the plan is as egalitarian as it seems. Keep in mind that wealthy people attend college at much higher rates than poorer people, which means plans to make college cheaper typically subsidize the spending habits of the rich more than the poor. Clinton's plan aims to address that by utilizing a max income figure. But a family living off of $85,000 in New York City, Los Angeles, or Washington, DC might be in much more precarious financial shape than a family living off $85,000 in the suburban Midwest. Does this plan not punish people whose higher incomes are offset by higher living costs?
While it's true that college is much more expensive than it ought to be, the government's continuous efforts to make it more affordable—via subsidized student loans—are an important contributor to the problem. Making college free wouldn't solve the underlying incentive problem: if the government is paying the true cost, universities can raise their prices sky-high without market mechanisms ever kicking in. This cost won't fall on the students, if tuition is free, but it will fall on their families—and the families of people who don't attend college at all—in the form of taxation.
Ultimately, a college education is mostly a benefit for the individual student. Let's let him pay that cost, and expect said cost to be more reasonable the less the government has to do with it.
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Libertarian Moment!
The amazing thing about your mastery of commenting is that it's so complex and nuanced, but you make it look easy.
Sarcasm. How original.
Libertarian Moment!
Well Double Dumbass on you!
No one ever explained why sugar is free at the table at restaurants. Who cares!
It's free!
Why should taxpayers pay for college at all? So the people who choose not to go to college must pay for those that do? Going to college for many increases your earnings, so the poorer subsidize the richer? #Leftism
Also, why should people subsidize your useless fucking fine arts / feminist dance theory / ##### 'studies' degree. The only thing that should be subsidizes are STEM fields.
The correct answer is nothing. Nothing should be subsidized at all.
Including K-12.
Going to college for many increases your earnings
It depends on what you study.
The people demanding free tuition, not surprisingly, want to study subjects that will get them lucrative jobs at Starbucks. They want the rest of society to pay for their four year degree in social justice warfare.
Yes, but Phase II of their plan is a six-figure "living wage" schlepping coffees at Starbucks, so society keeps paying.
No, they want to study subjects that will make them apparatchiks in the Progressive Theocracy, the Biggest Business of all, and the one expanding the fastest.
My thoughts exactly.
Here's my thought on fine arts degrees. If you're so untalented at acting that you need a college degree in order to make yourself employable in that field, you're probably not going to make it and the taxpayers shouldn't waste their money on you. If you want a college degree in a field that has no job opportunities other than teaching other people the courses for that degree, the taxpayers shouldn't waste the money on you. And if you're pursuing a degree that has a high employment rate and teaches you a marketable skill, the taxpayers don't need to spend their money on you because you can pay back your own loans.
This.
The thing that kills me is that you don't need a degree to be a musician, artist, or philosopher. You can just DO those things without the degree. And as you said, if you're talented enough to make it in these fields, you will. If you don't have what it takes, well, a degree isn't going to fix that, and it's idiotic to make the taxpayers pay for that piece of paper.
While I appreciated the liberal arts degree that I had, I have to say that it was utterly useless in teaching me any skills that mattered in the real world aside from giving me a few things to discuss at parties. It was useful only as a certification to check a block, but I could have gone almost as far without it. If I'd had to go into debt to pay for it (my parents paid for me) it would never have been worth it.
I've gradually come to the conclusion that liberal arts programs nothing but welfare programs for people who want to hide in academia and you can get just as much knowledge from a library card and some disciplined reading in your free time. That's also why, when I went back for a graduate degree, I went for a science degree that actually taught me how to do something.
Clarification: There was a 20 year gap, spent working, between finishing my undergrad and starting grad school. None of the jobs I had in that period actually required a degree (although simply having a degree did help a bit with salary negotiation) and most of the jobs I had immediately after college barely required a high school education.
It's the same as for any schooling.
So, you are saying that like most progressive policies, its stated intention is to help the poor at the expense of the rich, but it really ends up being middle class welfare? Color me shocked.
Well, I guess I shouldn't bother paying my (small) student loan debt off if everyone else going forward is going to get in for free or have in forgiven.
Not middle class welfare.Subsidy to Progressive Power.
More "free stuff" from the statists. Just wait until you see how expensive it will be when it's free.
I have a prog roommate who went to college, is doing nothing with his degree, and wants the government to pay for him to go back to college and get another one because it will be a 'benefit to society'.
Why haven't you slaughtered and consumed him yet? Surely you're not expecting his nutritive value to increase.
Winner for the most Libertarian comment of the Day!
What's he planning to study this time?
Activism 101?
The dream of the Left has always been to get the government to pay them to hold protest marches. Obviously, such things are a "benefit to society" - they further the goal of the glorious socialist future.
I'm sorry, but if you're making 85k a year you should be able to send a kid or two to college. Even an upper end one.
I mean FFS, you have 18 years to save up the money for each kid.
It just means that you might have to plan for the future and prioritize your kid's future over the big house, new care every couple of years, and that boat you've always wanted. But those are all lifestyle choices - just like having kids is.
Be careful, those claiming that 125k is poverty level in parts of the country are going to come after you now.
Yeah, pointing out that this is a massive subsidy to the not-coasts goes down like a lead balloon around here.
I'm sorry, but if you're making 85k a year you should be able to send a kid or two to college. Even an upper end one.
I mean FFS, you have 18 years to save up the money for each kid.
Not... quite.
$85k a year under what circumstances? Single-earner, head-of-household? You might save enough to send one kid to college at a top university, but possibly not two or more. And few people have kids 18 years apart, so you'd have to save up enough for all the kids kind of at the same time. I'm not disagreeing with your central thesis, just pointing out it isn't as easy-peasey as you make it look.
It's difficult enough for people to save for their own retirement, let alone their own retirement and college for multiple (more than one) children, even if you don't go to a top-tier college.
Its difficult to save for your own retirement because you lose upwards of 25% of your income to taxes.
And sure, its not easy - but if you're going to have kids then you need to plan for this beforehand. Its not 'have all the kids you want and someone else will take care of the details'.
If you can't afford to send them to college *before* they're born, then why am I on the hook for making sure they can go with no say in the matter?
And somehow people are befuddled by the declining birthrate among higher IQ people.
If you can't afford to send them to college *before* they're born, then why am I on the hook for making sure they can go with no say in the matter?
Because it takes a village [to burn you at the stake for witchcraft].
You do have a say: vote and work against any candidate that promises this or any other free shit.
Its difficult to save for your own retirement because you lose upwards of 25% of your income to taxes.
"Upwards of 25%"... you lucky Americans.
I'm an American and I pay way more than 25%.
Now if we weren't being raped in taxes, that would be a different story. Middle class pays too much in taxes to send their own kids then their tax dollars pays for other people's kids to go. And with the government involved that makes the cost even further out of reach for them. And makes loans for their kids ridicules.Fucked up is what it is.
Careful, you'll summon Hihn.
I just ignore him
You are the 7%
Best approach.
Most people aren't making that kind of money until their kids are grown, and no college shouldn't be subsidized. It would be a lot cheaper if the government were not involved at all.
I was allowing Ag the assumption that they're making $85k at the time the first kid is born.
If most people aren't making that kind of money 'until their kids are grown' then why would the initial cap need to be 85K? Seems it should then be in the 50k range.
If you're making 85k while raising kids then you're on track for making more once they're gone. Sacrifice current spending to get them in college and then rake in the cash of your debt-free lifestyle once they're out of the house.
Or just make a decision to cap earnings or get a divorce until your kids are through college.
Or live in Southern New England where 85K family earnings is "crappy small house in bad need of repairs" levels of rich.
Or kids can just take out loans to pay for it. I roll my eyes when I hear kids bitching about the $30K in loans that they took out to finance an education that should pay hefty returns for the rest of their lives and then have absolutely no problem borrowing $30K for a new car.
Or, the kids can work during college.
Which, you know, gets them skills too.
Either way, but the idea that parents are supposed to pay for their grown children to go to school to study something that will then pay them returns their entire lives doesn't really make sense to me. It's nice if you're able to do it without much sacrifice, but it's an otherwise easily financed endeavor.
Or, the kids can work during college.
I went to college when it was much cheaper and worked 30-35 hours a week delivering pizza making ~$10/hr back when that wasn't too bad. There was no way the money I made was going to cover the cost of college. Ok, it put a dent in it, but still...
I don't know about when you went to college, but when I did (mid 2000s), your choices was either work that pays crap but gives you no real skills, or work that doesn't pay you at all but gives you skills.
The mythical "paid internship" died pretty hard. Maybe if I had been in a big city instead of a small college town (town population: 10k. Student population: 2k. Annual tuition: $3-4k.), I could have stripped my way through college or something, but being able to work a job teaches you useful skills has been a privilege of having connected parents for a good while now.
It was pretty rough in many parts of the country in the early 90's. Trying to get minimum wage jobs as a part timer or seasonal full time college student when you have a factory full of laid off factory workers going after the same job and willing to work full time permanent was a challenge. I had to cobble together multiple jobs because nobody was paying overtime for about 2 years.
It's not the kids taking out $30k in loans that get covered on NPR. It's the kids who took out $200,000 in loans for an utterly useless degree.
Now, they won't have to take out the loan.
This. They'll still get useless degrees. Only it will now be at public expense. yay, socialism!
My roommate has about 110k. Or did when he graduated. He's a programmer, and is on schedule to be debt free in 4 years.
Majors matter, people.
But those kids don't want free college, they just want other people to subsidize their carefree and fun lifestyle in New York or San Francisco for four years. The point is, they will never be happy and will always demand more. They think they want free college, but when they get it they'll bitch and whine when they finish their free college, and then they'll demand free apartments and unrealistic minimum wages. It doesn't really make sense to pander to those people.
$200k for a useless degree really isn't representative though. Sure, it makes a great sob story, but most students with that much debt do just fine with paying it off. It's the kids that have four (maybe low-five) digit debt that dropped out that have a hard time paying their debt back.
$200k for a useless degree really isn't representative though. Sure, it makes a great sob story, but most students with that much debt do just fine with paying it off.
That may be true, but that's now who's writing the editorials and getting covered on NPR.
It's the guy with six figures in student loan debt with a photography and printmaking degree, claiming he was 'duped' by the system, and that's why he's voting for Bernie Hillary.
Hillary Clinton Proposes Free College Tuition, Won't Explain How to Pay for It
Bernie Sanders likes it. Will taxpayers?
Have taxpayers ever once complained about getting free stuff?
There will always be more taxpayers than there are students.
If it ever gets implemented, it will be the usual deal: the taxes are onerous, but the benefits are too important to cut.
Sure. Normally when they see those other people also getting free stuff. It's how you get people on welfare arguing against welfare because while sure, they're just good people hit with bad luck and a hard time and will be back on their feet, it's those other people that are abusing the system, don't-cha-know.
It's not a hard trick to pull off.
we complain about the macro, not the micro. phrase it as the country is swimming in debt, and people think the government should cut spending yesterday. put it in terms of a single program, and they find a way to defend it.
Swimming in debt? More like they poured debt around our ankles and we're tottering on the edge of the bridge before they send us to swim with the fishes.
Can we dispense with the meme that says the middle class let alone the poor pay taxes to support rich kids going to college? The only net payers in this country are the top 40% and it's really only the top 20% that have a meaningful contribution. So this is 'rich' people subsidizing college students. Still bad but let's get rid of the bleeding heart bs please.
I find it hard to believe I'm not a net payer in this country, and I'm probably about 1000 miles from being in the top 40%.
Honestly, I think there are very few people who arent net payers.
But I dont count most government services as a positive in my column.
Much less the ones you utilize because the government has effectively monopolized the production of those goods and services.
If I'm generous with the government services I receive (and I admit I'm not counting the services I receive that everyone receives, such as roads, police and fire protection), I'm coming out way behind. that will change when I retire and I go on SS, but it's going to take years before I'm playing on the house's money.
For households, the top 40% starts around $70,000 a year. (2014 numbers)
For single-earners, it's around $35,000 a year. (2010 numbers)
Know your percentile. It's often a reality check for people.
You'd be better off knowing your tax bracket. Your income percentile is useless information.
Most people live in little bubbles. Social, economic, religious, and so-on. Any information that helps remind people how little (or big) they are, and have a more realistic idea of where they actually stand, is useful.
That said, I don't disagree with knowing your tax-bracket, though knowing the actual bracket isn't as important as knowing what your W-2 exemption should be, and how much beyond that you should make sure is ready come April. Unless you're self-employed, then the bits of practical information shift around, but you get the idea.
If you are "1000 miles from the top 40"...then Casey Kasem has no time for you!
Seriously, the bottom 50% or so pay no little or no federal taxes, or at least shouldn't. We all know SS is just a tax, but I am going to leave that out since I don't think SS is included in the stats when looking at federal taxes. IIRC, the top 30% are paying most fed taxes.
Only if we can dispense with the meme that bundles in everything the government does into one bill and labels it all 'justified' and assumes that I use all those 'services'.
I'm pretty sure I at least break even in paying for all the stuff that the government *should* be doing and DGAF if my tax bill is not enough to cover cowboy poetry festivals in Wyoming that I've never and never will attend.
Hrm... are your numbers counting single-earner or household income? 'cause I'm in the top 40% by either measure, but only make top 20% if we're counting single-earner. But hey, we're still planning on getting the hubby to grad school, so check in a few years from now.
Free college: government's way of taking 16 years instead of 8 to fail to teach you how to read or do math.
What's 9.5% on $100,000 over 30 years?
$302707.51
treating it as a mortgage payment.
By which I mean, that is the total amount paid to pay off $100k in 30 years with equal monthly payments, like a mortgage.
The fact that you answered my question suggests you weren't the type to take out $100,000 in student loans.
$0, in fact.
I have done plenty of other stupid things with money over the years, but not that one.
Not really. The students who take out the most student loans reliably pay them back on time (which is not typically 30 years). The students who default the most are often the ones that dropped out with relatively small amounts, but couldn't pay them back because they didn't have the shiny pieces of paper that give them access to good jobs.
It's the people with shiny pieces of paper who complain they aren't getting them access to good jobs that I keep hearing about.
Which is why numbers are nice. They help you figure out what's noise, and what's an actual problem.
"Free College" - A thinly veiled mechanism for the government to funnel money to social justice warriors on college campuses.
Why work when you can loaf around and hold stupid protest rallies for four years - all paid for by the taxpayer dime?
Considering it was the government trying to defray college costs that let profits (!) In that industry go through the roof in the first place, I don't really see how doing the same thing even harder is going to help
This time it'll work!
Why do you hate children, you racist TEATHUGLIKKAN shitlord?
Maybe the Clinton Foundation can chip in to pay for it.
...debt-free to whom?
Only Teahadists care about government debt.
Because we need our universities to be exactly as over-priced and under-delivered as the k-12 school system.
As an added bonus, the extra 4 years of progressive indoctrination will secure more Democrat voters for the foreseeable future. What's not to like?
Needs some polls to prove otherwise....
Now, fixing the problem will never get college kids to for for her or her party and you know it.
In a world where older generations defer the cost of their lifestyles to the young and the young rebel then insist on their own deferred cost programs how does one "fix" the system?
The same way one "fixes" every other ponzi scheme.
Napalm?
Just what this country needs, is more incentives for poverty. Something like this will result in more housewives (and househusbands?) deciding not to work so that their kids can go to college. Bug or a feature?
If college is available to all who's going to fix our plumbing and electricity and dig our ditches? Immigrants? Illegal immigrants? BTW, my plumber and electrician charge a hundred bucks just to show up.
I went to a trade. I'm 4 years in now, I was able to move across the country with no job and find one within a week. I'm not paid at electrician wages, but for a smaller shop I do just fine. I'm planning on starting my own shop at some point.
I told everyone I know not to go to school unless they really knew what they wanted. Defer a year, be a ski bum, and realize why you want to make money.
It's good advice. I work with military personnel and I see a lot of them leave after their enlistment is up to "go back to school". I stay in touch with a lot of them after that, and overwhelmingly if they don't have a clear plan for what work they actually want to do they end up regretting leaving the military.
College is useful as a supplement to your professional career, but if you're going there to "find" yourself and figure out what you want to do with your life, you're just wasting time and money that could better be spent working.
The problem, of course, is that while many people will agree with you in the abstract, when you start talking about their children, suddenly they're far too good for trade school or apprenticeships or manual labor like that.
So once again... as much as folks want to blame "kids these days" for screwing things up, the real culprit is the man in the mirror. And of course, as "kids these days" screw up, and end up in the careers and lives they didn't want, when they get around to telling their kids what to do in life they'll say "go to college, don't end up like me."
I've spent a lot of breath over the last 2 years trying to tell my daughter that she doesn't need college to do well. And that her lack of desire to work for other people makes the degree track even less attractive for her. I just haven't quite managed to spark her entrepreneurial spirit.
Congratulations. Your medal is (not) in the mail. You are (not) representative.
God, my parents wish my sister had a useful trade...
She can't become a prostitute?
/ducking
There's some commenter here who says he can show people how to make $12842 from the laptop in just one week... Maybe drop him a line?
To be fair, the kinds of education she has in mind not only will be free to attend, she insists...
I once made the mistake of attempting to engage a progressive I went to college with in a conversation about this. I simply asked "Do you understand, that if the future personal cost of a BA/BS goes to $0, then the value of your degree, that was valued at $80-100K, also reverts to $0, despite the student loan payments you continue to make?"
She said that she wasn't going to have this conversation with me, and that everyone is entitled to the level of education they desire.
This won't stop with undergraduate degrees.
No. They will forgive the debts, making sure that the only people who get screwed are the ones who worked hard to pay off their debts.
The really pathetic thing is that once that degree is "free", those idiots assume that universities won't give you the worst possible product they can for the "free" stuff and then charge you higher rates for grad school, which you'll need to actually learn something. While, of course, gouging the taxpayers for every cent they can for the "free" undergrad education.
The residential-college model needs to become a lot more limited and less normative.
Some things may require a lengthy period of training at a particular location - I wouldn't want a physician who got an Internet degree - and other things can be learned at home with proctored examinations in meatspace to make sure you're mastering the material - and the proctors in one community could hire themselves out to lots of online universities so that the local students can just swing by a local public library where the exams are being administered.
And with online education you can have a flexible schedule which will accommodate the job you get which pays the (reduced) college bills.
Not to mention apprenticeships and...
Oh, heck, never mind, just give colleges loads of free money so they can educate more social justice majors.
"Not to mention apprenticeships and..."
I can't help but think that regulations requiring a college degree for things like flower arranging and hair cutting have contributed to the unavailability of good career opportunities.
With pixie dust and unicorn farts?
Jesus, can't you people read?! She said it was FREE. You don't need money for free stuff. Geez!
Apparently, the Democrats decided that they might as well go full retard too.
It's the latest trend.
"American families are drowning in debt caused by ever-rising college costs
So we'll put everyone else further in debt instead.
"Ultimately, a college education is mostly a benefit for the individual student. Let's let him pay that cost, and expect said cost to be more reasonable the less the government has to do with it."
This is about making it so people need the government more, not less.
More and more candidates just promise anything knowing enough voters are complete morons and will believe it.
She has no intention of giving "free" college. She knows it'll be shot down by repubs and she can use that in '20. if they demand free colleges we should demand the colleges give out scholarships for free. Just show up. I love how gov't creates a problem then says they will try to fix the problem they created. Tell your senator you want the colleges to pay for it all.
Republicans should just go along with the free college thing. There's no way to come out of opposing it looking good, and it might have near-term enough consequences more people would connect the dots
Instead they'll water it down just enough the inevitable disaster can be blamed on obstructionism
Listen, we are all missing the biggest flaw in this article. Rico Suave used the gendered term, "him" at the end of the article. That white male, cis-gendered asshole! /sarc
Well, the entire staff from teachers, Admin, janitors, etc will work for free. OK?
I'd be OK with making all administrators in the university work for $15/hr. If it is good enough for the hard working fast food worker, it should be fine for someone who sits behind a desk.
I'd let profs get paid more, but would tie it to actual hours lectured.
And don't fuck with the janitors. They are the only honest workers at a university and deserve what they can get. I always was able to get into computer labs after hours because I was nice to the janitors in my college. Simply refraining from walking straight down the middle of their freshly mopped floor and apologizing for having to walk across it got you on their good side.
"American families are drowning in debt caused by ever-rising college costs extortion rates (taxation), inflation, lack of choice in services forced on people through the state, regulations designed to protect political donors from competition and it is imperative that the next president put forward a bold plan to make debt-free college free markets, allodial titles to their land, choice currency, and liberty available to all,"
Holy shit are we going to need a lot more colleges if tuition is free. There won't be enough slots for all the kids who will suddenly want to go to college once it is free.
Basically we will need almost a 1 to 1 ratio of colleges to high schools, won't we?
Also anyone want to bet on when it will go from 4 to 6 years of free schooling? Because it just isn't fair to expect someone to graduate in only 4 years.
Another chance to bet on the future: how long before special ed kids will be mainstreamed into college courses?
Why stop at mainstreaming them into high school classes? Don't they have the same right to that free 4 years of college?
Granted, special ed kids could bring up the intellectual rigor of places like U Tennessee, but still...
Sorry mate, I worked in a college disabilities testing center and I can reliably tell you that this is already how it works. If you get the right doctors note, you can get triple time for all your tests and take them in a safe space of your choosing. The number of students I saw getting higher education that literally threw a shit fit if they heard a single noise was disconcerting when you consider these people are presumably hoping to find employment someday. I'm not saying the disabled shouldn't have access to an education, but if your ADDHD or whatever is so bad you can't even string together two sentences before you're distracted by that bird over there, maybe try a trade? I don't think Nuclear Science is for you.
I've seen France. I'm not going to take no sucker bet.
Hillary and her ilk seem to have missed the fact that their favorite European countries aren't giving away "free" college to just anyone who walks up and asks for it. The only way this plan would "work" - and I mean that loosely - would require a massive shutdown of American colleges.
^Precisely why it won't happen: the colleges and university administrators are making money hand over fist under the current scheme.
European countries aren't giving away college to anyone. While state universities in Europe usually don't have tuition, students generally have to pay for everything else or secure a (need or merit-based) scholarship.
"Free college" is a subsidy to the madrassas of the Progressive Theocracy.
Fucking insanity-let the damn kids pay for it themselves.
Just make it an unfunded mandate. Colleges can no longer legally charge anything for tuition. Price caps are magic.
Books will cost 30k-120k per year. Drinking fountains will ve removed and bottled water will be sold for $10 a bottle. There will be a strick no outside food or beverage rule.
Tuition will be free.
Schooling will be free but will consist of dipshit French literary theory applied to all subjects regardless of relevance...Oh wait, it's already like that!
Fucking Derida.
This isn't about college or education; it's about welfare for out-of-work 17-25-year-olds, who would otherwise not be able to get jobs under minimum wage and union-friendly policies.
I guess the college free tuitition idea is for worthless college degrees? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl3Ty-EqSyM
RE: Hillary Clinton Proposes Free College Tuition, Won't Explain How to Pay for It
Bernie Sanders likes it. Will taxpayers?
We all know how Heil Hitlary will have free college tuition.
She'll just take it out of her own stash.
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