Brexit

No, 75 Percent of Leave Voters Don't Believe Feminism is a Force for Ill

Only 23 percent do.

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Isabel Infantes/ZUMA Press/Newscom

Lots of interesting data on Leave and Remain voters from Lord Ashcroft that made the Internet rounds yesterday. One portion of the data, on voters' feelings toward things like multiculturalism, feminism, the Internet, and capitalism as "forces for good" or "forces for ill," was particularly interesting. 81 percent of people who believed multiculturalism was a force for ill, for example, voted Leave.

The polling led to some confusion. Sayeeda Warsi, a Conservative member of the House of Lords, for example, tweeted that "around 75 to 80 percent" of Leavers believed multiculturalism, social liberalism, immigration, and feminism were "a force for ill," based on large majorities of people who opposed those things being Leave voters, which is what Ashcroft's data showed.

The proportion of people who oppose something who vote a certain way is different than the proportion of people who vote a certain way who oppose something. So while 81 percent of people who believe multiculturalism is a force for ill voted Leave in Ashcroft's survey, just 47 percent of Leave voters believe multiculturalism is a force for ill. The difference is even more stark with feminism. While 80 percent of people who oppose feminism voted Leave, just 23 percent of Leave voters oppose feminism.

Here's a breakdown of all the numbers*:

Text added to visualization from LordAshcroft.com

The percentage of Leave voters who believe immigration is a force for ill is the most troubling, given that Leave campaigners, particularly on the Labor side but also Conservative leaders like Boris Johnson, have argued that leaving the European Union will allow Britain to have a less "discriminatory" immigration policy that would permit more immigrants from Commonwealth countries in Africa and the Caribbean.

Meanwhile, 12 percent of Remain voters believed multiculturalism was a force for ill. For social liberalism, the number was 10 percent, 9 percent for feminism, 9 percent for the Green movement, 15 percent for globalization, 3 percent for the Internet, 30 percent for capitalism, and 17 percent for immigration.

The chart above stuck with me because of the numbers on capitalism. One of the most important benefits of the European Union was the guarantee of the relative freedom of movement of people, capital, goods, and services. If Britain were split on capitalism, Remain would appear more of an endorsement of the bureaucracy surrounding the EU than the freedom of movement it's helped to protect. In fact, just 29 percent of Brits believed capitalism was a "force for ill," still a troubling number suggesting a massive failure by the British and European educational system in educating about the economic system that's brought the prosperity that made the EU possible in the first place.

See the raw data here (PDF)

*A previous version of this chart had higher percentages on the right side because I neglected to take into account those who considered these things "mixed blessings."

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  1. Interesting that roughly half of them believe that social liberalism is a force for ill, same for capitalism. I’d like to know how many believe that both social liberalism *and* capitalism are forces for ill (cookies?). Just can’t win.

    That aside, how to interpret “force for ill”? Evil, or just detrimental?

    1. RE feminsim: Should distinguish between historical and contemporary feminism.

      1. Millennials really shouldn’t let their Republican parents watch “Even Lambs have Teeth” on YouTube. My generation could have spared itself a lot of grief by not letting them watch “Wild in the Streets.”

    2. It’s the UK. I’m surprised half are willing to say they support “capitalism.”

    3. Remember with leftists, it’s a take all deal. You can’t be both socially liberal and a capitalist. That doesn’t fit the narrative.

    4. My last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can’t believe how easy it was once I tried it out.
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  2. Feminism and multiculturalism are absolutely “a force for ill” in the proponents broader definition. As is “equality” and “diversity”.

    1. This! Any “ism” that requires forced association is an ill. Equality under the law is the only part of “social justice” that the government should concern itself with.

  3. Libertarian moment. You’re now few to be on a database.

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/25/…..index.html

      1. *Kristallnacht* This was predictable back when disciples of the Prophet freely exercised their First Amendment rights against the Twin Towers of Profits. At least the Brits are coming to their senses as Hawaiians place their heads on the chopping-block.
        Never forget that Hawaii was invaded and Queen Liliuokalani deposed by a Bible-saving prohibitionist Republican government before the rascals were thrown out and replaced by Grover Cleveland.

        1. I still can’t figure out if the “Hank Phillips” account is a piece of performance art, or the genuine ravings of a mentally ill person.

          1. I hear Mike Judge’s voice whenever I see “Hank”, so I’m going with performance art.

            1. Naw, he’s just nuts

            2. “I sell insanity and insane accessories”

            3. “You boys quit whacikin’ off in my tool shed.”

          2. Cant it be both?

            1. He’s Canadian. Replace that voice with one of the Possum Lodge members from Red Green, maybe Sparky Hoover.

              …or, from RL, Mark Steyn.

    1. I read that yesterday. I was surprised it wasn’t in the PM links, then I saw who was in charge of them…

    2. Figures for 2010:

      Hawaii
      Gun ownership – 6.7%
      Gun murders per 100K – 0.5

      District of Columbia
      Gun ownership – 3.6%
      Gun murders per 100K – 16.5

      Louisiana
      Gun ownership – 44.1%
      Gun murders per 100K – 7.7

      It is almost like the number of guns have less to do with those numbers than culture.

      1. We will just ignore your ‘facts’, teabagger, we have made up our own!

        /the left

      2. And for Louisiana, how does that break down when you look at rural vs. New Orleans too? Too lazy to look the numbers up right now, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the ownership rates were similar or if rural was much higher, yet I would be willing to bet most of the murders are in the city.

        1. Few years old, but I’d say this would lend some credence :

          http://cnsnews.com/news/articl…..ghest-rate

      3. “Culture” is a polite way of putting it.

        Let’s do a thought experiment where we take the entire population of the state of Hawaii and airlift them to Louisiana to live with Louisiana’s laws for ten years, then do the same by moving Hawaii’s population to Louisiana.

        Do the crazy liberalized gun laws of LA make the Hawaiians insane with bloodlust, or do they just begin enjoying a new hobby involving black rifles and the occasional SSS drill? Do Louisianans discover the joy of Pauline brotherly love while living atop a volcanic rock, or do they find new ways to kill and maim one another with or without firearms?

        The longer the left ignores the open sore of black crime–not guns, not rednecks, not “America’s culture of violence,” not violent media, but black crime–and the longer the right allows them to continue to ignore it for fear of being called infidelsracists, the longer we’re going to have to deal with these tedious quacks who self-righteously identify everything but the obvious culprit as the origin of America’s crime problem.

      4. Typical gun-banner: “That’s why gun laws don’t make any difference: it’s so easy to just go to another state and get guns there. I mean, that’s even why Mexico has so many guns – they just smuggle them in from the US.”

        So why did you say that Canada’s gun control works? I mean, the US and Canada famously share the world’s longest undefended border, so it would be trivial to smuggle guns into Canada.

        Typical gun-banner: “Uh…HOW MUCH DID THE NRA PAY YOU TO SAY THAT? NOBODY NEEDS AN ASSAULT WEAPON TO HUNT DEER! YOU PROBABLY SIT AT HOME AND STROKE YOUR GUNS BECAUSE YOU HAVE A TINY PENIS!”

    3. Well, there’s no way that will induce people to make sure the government doesn’t know about their guns. So this is going to work out exactly as they planned it. /derp

    4. “During the public comment process regarding the bill, opponent Quentin Kealoha asked: “Why are law abiding citizens exercising their constitutional right being entered into a criminal database? Would you enter people exercising their right to free speech into a criminal database?”

      “Supporters countered that adding gun owners to the database was needed because the initial background check wasn’t sufficient. ”

      That isn’t really so much a counter argument as a defense of the virtues of fascism.

  4. Re Immigration: And once again, who destroys Europe? Germans!
    Merkel chose to unilaterally institute a hunger games-style open borders policy and apparently some of the plebes in the second and third rank EU states aren’t happy with that.

    1. France had better get out now, it sounds like Paris is becoming a war zone. And parts of Marseille are like Somalia.

      And what does ISIS claim will be it’s next target? Berlin.

      I’m surprised that the Germans have not hung Merkel yet.

      1. “it sounds like Paris is becoming a war zone. And parts of Marseille are like Somalia.”

        Well, Brexit may have changed things, but when I was there less than two weeks ago, neither of those things were even remotely true. You’d really be hard pressed to support either assertion if you were on the ground there.

  5. Interesting that the only percentages shown above 50% are for Leave values. Do Remainers have no core beliefs, or were their core beliefs too embarrassing to publicize?

    1. The Remain data was at one of the links.

  6. This confusion is caused by vague definitions. Most voters in These States have been taught in government schools that “altruism” is a good thing totally unrelated to “the common good before the individual good” preached by You-Know-Who, but haven’t a clue what the word means. British voters, on the other hand, understand perfectly that “multiculturalism” means welcoming communist anarchists and mohammedans in suicide vests with open arms. It is the Europeans who still preach sacrifice and chant “Gemeinnutz vor Eigennutz”.

    1. Yup, nuttier than squirrel turds.

      1. I dunno, his definition of multiculturalism is spot on.

  7. “The polling led to some confusion.”

    Is it possible that the Remain supporters are deliberately misrepresenting Leave supporters? Fucked up the narrative, did it?

  8. In fact, just 43 percent of Brits believed capitalism was a “force for ill,” still a troubling number suggesting a massive failure by the British and European educational system in educating about the economic system that’s brought the prosperity that made the EU possible in the first place.

    Failure. Or resounding success? If you think their goals are simply to educate with a politically neutral set of facts, maybe.

    But if the goal is to clear the path for an expanding state and increasing socialism, then I’d say the last 100 years have been a rousing success for the educational system.

  9. This sounds a lot like the claim that 75% of younger voters (18-24) in the UK, voted stay. I can’t remember now which article that was, but it claimed this statistic while admitting there were no polls to back it up. It also included some twitter comments from this made up, but surely factual, 75%. The one I recall most was something like this ‘Old people did this! Why are 80 year olds allowed to vote, but 16 and 17 year olds are not?!’. Really, you want 16 year olds to vote?

    The butthurt in Europe is epic. It sounds like now, according to The Guardian, some of the Eurocrats are throwing a tantrum, demanding that the UK get out now. Lol, they are soooo smart. Now 5 other countries, Denmark, France, Italy, the Netherlands, and Sweden are all facing demands for referendums over Europe. That’s right American lefties, your socialist paradises of Denmark and Sweden, could leave the big socialist dream.

    Obama haz a sad too. This shit is hilarious.

    1. I think the 75% of young voters voting stay was deduced from exit polling and the pre-referendum opinion polls.

      1. The 75% number isn’t surprising.

        In the 80’s and 90’s, when the EU/Common Market was all about evil capitalist ideas like free movement of goods, services, and labor, young voters and socialists were the ones against it.

        Later, when it became just another tier of European government, the demographics flipped. The same people and politicians who were squarely against the EU, are now for it.

        In fact some of those politicians decided to become EU level bureaucrats, without seemingly having changed their position on anything else.

    2. Obama haz a sad too.

      Given Obama’s malignant narcissism, he probably takes Brexit as a personal slight.

      1. Back of the line, Britain!

  10. I have friends on FB apologizing to Londoners. The gnashing of teeth and rending of garments is hilarious.

    1. Yes, I too am enjoying it also, as well.

    2. I can’t remember who made the comment now, the night of the vote. But someone said something to the effect of ‘Now this is a moment, pay attention Reason’.

      That’s exactly right, Brexit was a moment. Libertarian moment is still a pipe dream.

      1. Lovin’ the handle. Thankfully, even my lefty friends haven’t been saying much at all about Brexit.

    3. Just flash them the ‘Leave EU’ logo and watch them have a total breakdown.

  11. Regardless of the secondary who-believes-what considerations, there were lots of good reasons to leave the EU that have nothing to do work racism.

    Why can’t you support ‘leave’ merely because you’re tired of the undemocratic rule of bureaucrats in Brussels, and crushing EU regulatory natterings. And really, the elephant in the living room, maybe some Brits were simply tired of financing the credit card debt of Greece’s 1%.

    Speaking of which, isn’t it interesting that the left who traditionally claims open hostility to the 1% have completely locked arms with them on this issue?

    1. Well someday the complaining yuts will get the opportunity to piss away their country.

    2. My lefty acquaintances all say it’s all about ‘immigration’. In this case, the word ‘immigration’ is only a substitute word for ‘racism’.

      My rebuttal that it’s not all about ‘immigration’ falls on deaf ears. They’ve made up their mind that it’s racist Britbillys in the fly over that caused this epic disaster, and then carried on with their prognostications of doom.

      1. My friend who works in Britain said an American equivalent to the situation that caused the Brexit would be if the state of California made all the rules and regulations regarding workplace, environment and trade and then forced the rest of the states to comply.

        1. So, exactly like D.C.?

      2. Nothing says racism like “we want to leave the majority white pseudo-state and while still taking in immigrants from the much more multi-racial Commonwealth.’

        Are Ghanians and Jamaicans honourary whites now or something?

    3. there were lots of good reasons to leave the EU that have nothing to do work racism.

      Oh, no!

      If you oppose the Leviathan in the least, you are a Racist! Racist! Racist! Worse than Hitler!

  12. Different topic, but is anyone else surprised about how when the leftists have finally converted the place where they live into a socialist utopia, that they start packing up and heading out, in droves, for the most red areas on the map?

    An article I read recently, told the stories of some SanFran couples who were packing it up and heading for North Carolina. Where they will undoubtedly team up with other lefties to convert that state into the exact same thing that they just fled from. It’s almost like they’re some type of hive creature who just migrates around, fucks everything up wherever they are, then flee the mess they’ve made to go fuck up somewhere else. It never seems to dawn on them that they are the problem. Reminds me of that old saying ‘Wherever you go, there you are’.

    1. This is one of my favorite political paradoxes. And it applies to immigration as well: People escape shitty countries, and all too often, want to make their new country more like their old one. If it’s just a few people, it doesn’t matter, but when it’s mass immigration from Latin America or the Muslim world, it does.

      1. People bring their culture with them when they immigrate. If they set up in enclaves with other people from the same culture, they don’t assimilate very quickly.

    2. Like the locust aliens in Independence Day, they suck up all the resources and value of one place, then move on to do it again someplace else.

    3. We are the Borg leftists, we will add replace your biological and cultural distinctiveness to with our own. Resistance is futile.

    4. Different topic, but is anyone else surprised about how when the leftists have finally converted the place where they live into a socialist utopia, that they start packing up and heading out, in droves, for the most red areas on the map?

      An ex girl friend’s sister, big government progressive, city government worker for decades, moved out to Idaho.

      Idaho. It still makes me laugh.

      Turns out those racist sexist hillbillies she hated for decades seem like pretty decent neighbors.

  13. I’m really enjoying the massive amount of salt coming from the Remain voters, especially since so many of them can barely articulate why the EU is such a profound net benefit. Especially when they pull out stuff like the Schengen Agreement (which Britain wasn’t a part of anyway) or free trade (which, of course, an independent Britain could never have without Brussels).

    I mean, even the goofy youtube anime reviewers are complaining about it… using an anime metaphor from a series where the ‘EU’ is an abusive asshole who cares nothing for ‘Britain’ and actively forces them to engage in dangerous and self-destructive behaviour. Didn’t really think that through.

    The Commonwealth salutes you Britain, good to have you back. Hail Britannia, and keep the Hun off your island.

  14. This whole poll/report is an attempt to strip people of any rational motivations for the “Leave” vote and pigeonhole them as “anti-something”

    They don’t want to allow that their opponents have legitimate, rational self-interested reason for leaving the EU.

    So they run polls about what people think “FORCES OF ILL”* are, and then highlight that there’s some arbitrary correlation between unpopular opinions and “the wrong” vote.

    (*and what does that mean, anyway? force for ill? anything can be good or bad depending on the dosage – mere disfavor for an ‘idea’ means nothing in isolation)

    That doesn’t mean that any of these views are WHY people actually voted to leave the EU. But the media will drum up as much of these sorts of “Studies” as they can, and hyperventilate that the reason people left the EU is because ‘they hate brown people and women’. Because identity politics is all the left has. They refuse to allow people to talk about economic self interest or liberty. Those things are code-language for Hate and Resentment etc etc.

    So what if a plurality of “leave” voters were “anti-multicultural”? Does th

  15. “The percentage of Leave voters who believe immigration is a force for ill is the most troubling”

    Why? Unless you’re an idiot or Cytotoxic (but I repeat myself) immigration has never been an unalloyed good.

    1. Indeed.

  16. I love how Vox managed to make a great argument for free markets in their pants-shitting over brexit:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czWhVBmrNPQ

    1. Hey, what could be wrong with a Union of Semi-Socialist Republics?

    2. Seriously = suddenly all the same people on the left who were claiming the TPP is unfair and global trade hurts the poor etc. are now clamoring in defense of free trade. because this time its about their idealized Europrogtopia

      1. Yeah, they managed to argue in favor of free markets, and then showed how the EU would hurt the UK by locking them out.

        If you spend 5 seconds thinking about it, it doesn’t seem to be the endorsement they planned for.

      2. All the Left’s arguments are simply rationalizations to manipulate the listener in the moment to give the Left more power.

  17. Of course, whether a person is for or against “feminism” reveals nothing, since the word has different meanings to different people.

    1. It usually means you are part of one of the most privileged and sheltered demographics in the history of civilization, but yeah – the actual meaning of the word tends to be pretty subjective

  18. Young people seem to believe that only a European superstate can deliver prosperity and opportunity; it does neither, unless you account employment in the unsustainable Brussels bureaucracy. Their concerns over immigration can be soothed with new immigration treaties.

  19. The percentage of Leave voters who believe immigration is a force for ill is the most troubling,

    When the end result of the latest waves of immigration is barely concealed population replacement and colonization, I think people are going to regard it as a force for ill. If you’d taken a poll in the British isles when the Anglo-Saxons were migrating en masse, there’d be some anti-immigration sentiment.

    1. Of course Ed finds it “troubling” that many UK citizens would oppose the mass importation of populations who will block-vote for leftist machine politicians.

      1. The most reliable leftists are the ones who predicate their leftism on their identity group. That factor of the persons life will never change.

      2. Same thing happening here. Mass immigration is about votes for Big Government.

        PEW Research report on Muslim Americans
        http://www.people-press.org/fi…..report.pdf
        Muslims Lean Democratic over Republicans over 6 to 1
        Muslims Want bigger government over smaller government over 3 to 1

        1. PEW Research on Hispanic Americans
          http://www.pewresearch.org/fac…..democrats/
          Hispanics Lean Democratic over 3 to 1
          http://www.pewhispanic.org/201…..-religion/
          Hispanics Want Bigger Government Providing More Services over 3 to 1

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  21. So if we have free trade with the EU and also with Britain, but they don’t have it with each other…. That seems like a pretty sweet deal for the US.

  22. The percentage of Leave voters who believe immigration is a force for ill is the most troubling, given that Leave campaigners, particularly on the Labor side but also Conservative leaders like Boris Johnson, have argued that leaving the European Union will allow Britain to have a less “discriminatory” immigration policy that would permit more immigrants from Commonwealth countries in Africa and the Caribbean.

    Immigration policy can be good or bad. Presumably most people were talking the current and recent immigration policies, not what might be in the future.

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