AirBnb

New York's Latest Anti-Airbnb Effort Could Violate First Amendment

Effort targets advertising since renting your place out for under 30 days is already illegal.

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An effort backed by unions and the hotel industry might succeed in shutting down Airbnb in New York.

Doing so might require the state government to violate the First Amendment.

The New York State Senate voted last week to approve a bill banning online advertising for short-term apartment rentals. The measure makes it possible for Airbnb hosts to rent rooms or part of their living space, but would make it illegal to rent an entire apartment on the website, or on any of its competitors.

Renting an apartment for less than 30 days is already against the law in New York, and this new proposal is really an enforcement mechanism designed to make it more difficult for anyone who was already ignoring that ban.

It comes with stiff penalties, too.  First-time offenders would be fined $1,000 and repeat offenders would have to pay as much as $7,500 for every online rental listing.

Christina Sandefur, an attorney and vice president of the Arizona-based Goldwater Institute told Watchdog that the bill might violate the First Amendment by unconstitutionally limiting what New Yorkers can say—or, in this case, write online.

"Prohibiting people from advertising their homes online would appear to be a violation of free speech rights," Sandefur said in an email. "Of course, the First Amendment protects the free exchange of information, so long as it isn't fraudulent or misleading."

The bill is currently on Democrat Gov. Andrew Cuomo's desk, awaiting his decision to sign or veto it.

The battle lines are pretty much what you've come to expect from these short-term rental fights. The hotel industry and various union groups have pushed for the legislation, as a way to shut down competition.

"This bill, once it's signed into law, will send a strong message that we prioritize hardworking New York families and affordable housing, and will give law enforcement the tools they need to crack down on illegal hotels," Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal, D-Manhattan, who sponsored the legislation, said in a statement about the bill's passage.

Airbnb, meanwhile, says the advertising ban will really hurt New Yorkers the most, by making it harder for some people to pay their bills by renting their extra space.

Beyond the local fight between hotels and the online marketplaces that seek to compete with them, big constitutional questions are at play here.  Other states and cities will be looking to New York's legislation as they craft their own rules for short-term rentals.

Courts have long held that there can be some small limitations on free speech—shouting "fire" in a movie theater being the most oft-cited example, even if many people misunderstand the point Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes was trying to make when he wrote that—if that speech is meant to incite criminal behavior.

There's the rub. Since New York has criminalized Airbnb rentals and turned anyone who uses the room-sharing services into law-breakers, the ban on public advertising might be able to skirt around otherwise robust protections for free speech, Sandefur said.

In other words, New York's state government could get away with infringing on free speech because it made the subject matter of that speech illegal.

"It's pretty scary stuff—if government can criminalize harmless behavior in order to avoid the First Amendment, our rights are doubly at risk," Sandefur said.

This article originally appeared at Watchdog.org

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  1. This protection is not absolute. Tobacco advertising is heavily regulated, and quite frankly second hand short-term rental contact is just as damaging to your health.

    1. Didn’t the tobacco industry willfully accept that regulation of their advertising in a settlement agreement?

      That would be different.

      I can contractually give my freedom of speech away through an NDA, for instance. Just like I can forego my right to a jury trial or my right to remain silent.

      1. An individual could agree in a contract to some limitation in their actions, but how could that be binding for a group?

        For example, if I start my own Holy Smokes brand of cigs, can I go out and advertise any way I want? Or am I somehow bound by some rules that others agreed to?

        Sounds like a variation of this Social Contract that I signed without realizing what I was agreeing to.

        1. I wonder if I could call my Holy Smoke cigs a sacrament and avoid taxes?

          Wouldn’t it be a huge no-no for the govt to tax the holy mysteries of a religion? Do they tax communion wine?

            1. It’s almost farcical to read these articles about “violating the First Amendment,” as if legal commentators were unaware that freedom of speech, in the United States, simply means the right to politely express an opinion in an appropriate forum. Surely Ms. Sandefur wouldn’t wish to defend the outrageous “First Amendment dissent” signed by a single, isolated, liberal judge in America’s leading criminal “satire” case? See the documentation at:

              http://raphaelgolbtrial.wordpress.com/

        2. “An individual could agree in a contract to some limitation in their actions, but how could that be binding for a group?

          Corporations may not be people, but the shares are owned by people, the corporation is managed by people, the employees are people, . . .

          You pool your money and elect a board of directors to protect the shareholders’ interests. The board of directors hires someone to manage the company. If you don’t like what management does, you can pressure the board to fire the people they hired. If you don’t like that the board won’t fire him, you can vote against the board members at the next shareholders’ meeting. If you can’t get the board of directors you want, then you can sell the stock.

          Corporations are more democratic than our government. You don’t have to participate in a corporation if you don’t want. If you don’t like that they signed their advertising rights away (in a settlement agreement), then you can pressure the board to fire the CEO, pressure other shareholders to fire the board, or sell the stock and walk away.

          1. Ken,

            When I said group, I was thinking more along the lines of “a group that sells the same product”. If I start a new company that sells smokes, why am I obliged to follow some advertising guidelines that I never agreed to?

            I agree that corporations are a whole another thing.

            1. Yeah, so why is it okay for one corporation to sell off the free speech rights of another corporation that didn’t even exist at the time that the settlement agreement was negotiated?

              That’s an excellent question.

              I bet the (awful) answer has something to do with the commerce clause.

              1. nope, it was an insanely cynical agreement amongst the states and tobacco companies to create liability insurance funds as a defacto perpetual tax and/or barrier to entry:

                https://reason.com/archives/200…..settlement

              2. Also the FYTW clause as well…

        3. I’m surprised this hasn’t happened. It would be a great way to whitewash the back liability. Just go start a new company and make sure you do the full disclosure thing.

          The lever the states used was the internal memos that said the companies knew that cigarettes caused cancer while they continued to fund experts going on TV and sewing doubt. I never really understood that tactic though…. the cigarette packages have had Surgeon General’s warnings on them for all of my life. How you could pretend that some massive fraud was committed by some little weasel saying “we just don’t know the level of risk” when the stupid package says in big, federally mandated letters that it is hazardous to your health, I just don’t know.

          1. You’ve hit on my problem with the NFL concussion suits as well. We’ve known for 100 years that getting hit in the head repeatedly is bad long term, all we had to do was look at boxers, but yeah, lets ignore that we should have known, and doctors DID know, because the NFL moght have said “we’re not sure”.

            Fuck, even if the NFL flatly denied it, no one who has played football in the last 100 years has an excuse for not knowing their head injuries may be problematic long term.

            1. But the NFL has big piles of money, and dammit, that’s just not fair!

              (That’s part of the reason, I think, why so many people went apeshit over Roger Goodell’s not-so-heavy punishment of Ray Rice, even thought the state punished Rice even less.)

      2. The Tobacco Industry accepted rape as a better alternative to being sodomized with a spiked mace. Not sure that has a lot to say to First Amendment issues.

      3. You can’t contractually give up your constitutional rights as it puts the government in the position of violating your constitutional rights through enforcement of the contract. And we know that the government would never violate your constitutional rights.

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    3. My last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can’t believe how easy it was once I tried it out.
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    4. After my stay in an Airbnb in SoHo for a week, I agree with that. I could have paid a similar price to stay in a hotel in the area and probably should have…

      1. It should, incidentally, be pointed out that rent-stabilized tenants do not have the right to rent out spare rooms in New York for less than a month. It violates rent-gauging laws and is equivalent to transforming a rent-stabilized apartment into a business, just like running a bed-and-breakfast. So if you stay at someone’s apartment for a few days or a week and it’s rent-stabilized, you’re putting him or her at risk of eviction. Anyone who has a neighbor who’s doing this should report him to the landlord or building manager, so we can proceed as efficiently as possible with the ongoing gentrification of the city.

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  2. The way to get Airbnb totally above boards in New York is to get a bunch of city employees whose job it is to regulate them.

    When I visited my brother in NYC, once, he jokingly explained that the purpose of the police, at that time, was mostly just to make sure that street vendors paid city sales tax. There was some truth to that–cities tend to be vigilant about protecting their revenue sources.

    I don’t know the details of how NYC operates or taxes hotels, but I bet they charge a tax to tourists who stay in hotel rooms. Why tax your own voters if you can tax tourists instead? The city probably sees Airbnb as a way for tourists to avoid paying those taxes and, hence, as a threat to their revenue stream.

    The only thing cities protect more jealously than their revenue stream is their spending. When city employees in Oakland, CA became heavily involved in working with the marijuana dispensaries, they suddenly became the dispensaries’ champion against both state and federal governments. Now if you want to mess with marijuana dispensaries, you gotta fight the SEIU.

    http://tinyurl.com/j4jhurv

    If there were enough city employees whose job it was to regulate Airbnb, I suspect the same thing would happen with Airbnb. NYC might stop; fighting against them and start fighting their battles for them.

    1. Don’t forget taxes on rental cars (bonus points if you can limit it to just rental car offices near an airport). Those and hotel taxes are the preferred method of extorting raising revenue for things like stadiums.

      The thinking is that only visitors will get gouged and what can they do? The pols don’t have to worry about getting voted out of office.

      1. The thinking is that only visitors will get gouged and what can they do?

        Not visit?

        1. That’s a good reason not to set the tax too high.

          1. Hotels are good at making sure you’re not aware of said tax until you go through 95% of the booking process or you’re physically at the receptionist desk, tired from your trip, about to give them your credit card. At that point, most people say “fuck it”.

    2. Places I travel to in FL have a local “bed tax” included in the bill, and it’s hidden, in the same way as sales tax–you don’t see the additional cost until they ring up the bill. It probably works the same way in NY.

      You’re right in that if AirBnB payed these taxes the city would probably tell the other anti-AirBnB stakeholders to fuck off, but of course the beauty of the service for libertarians (and other consumers for that matter) is the ability to avoid that tax.

      1. Yeah, it’s not my favorite outcome, but given the world we live in, that’s the way this will probably be resolved.

        1. I’m skeptical of this, given how Uber and Lyft got hosed by the taxi cartels in Austin who bought off politicians and got some nice regulations designed to drive them out of the city.

          The hotel industry in NYC has a similar interest in driving competition away, and has the campaign “contributions” and connections with politicians to make them do their bidding.

          1. Yeah; the hotel industry (or maybe the hotel workers’ unions) were running ads about how AirBnB is supposedly racist.

            1. Yeah, they’re never going to need union labor to run Airbnb, and so those outside unions will always oppose them.

              But Airbnb needs the government and government employee unions to have some skin in the game.

              If Airbnb were paying taxes to the city and that’s money going into the government employee union’s retirement plan, then they’ve both got some skin in the game.

              Right now, there’s no reason for the city not go after Airbnb if Airbnb is depriving them of tax revenue they would have gotten without Airbnb.

          2. What I don’t get is why does the hotel industry see AirBnB as such a threat? In my experience, AirBnB’s main customer base are those looking for a cheap room (who would not otherwise be able to afford a hotel) and/or those who genuinely want to stay with a local to get the experience of “living” in a particular place for a few days. If NYC drives out AirBnB, I can say without a doubt I’ll never visit there and stay in the city and I know I’m not alone. While there may be some overlap, AirBnB just does not have the same clientele as hotels in major cities. Hotels offer a unique service at a price and AirBnB offers another unique service at a price. Why does government need to be involved in that?

            1. The measure makes it possible for Airbnb hosts to rent rooms or part of their living space

              What they’re trying to stop is landlords converting their apartment buildings into hotels.

              1. That’s what they say they’re trying to stop.

                1. Right. NYC is all about government control of resources. Hotels are tightly regulated and heavily taxed, so the prices are artificially high. This creates the opportunity for AirBnB to operate in a black market.

                  The same forces keep housing availability artificially low. If not for heavy rent control and other restrictions on building, new apartments and condos would become available at the high end, driving rates down across the board.

                  But anti-competitive regulatory capture prevents this from happening. So they have the mess they have.

                  We used to rent out rooms for annual trade conventions – they were so large that they overwhelmed the local capacity. In that case the government actually got involved in helping business place their people with locals. Funny how incentives work.

  3. I see the click bait ads now have Trump advice on paying off mortgages instead of Obama ones.

    That’s interesting.

    1. It seems that taking Obama’s advice has the opposite effect of what was intended. Or I could probably better say that Obama giving people advice seems a sure way to make sure the opposite happens.

      1. I have a sneaking suspicion it won’t be any different with Trump.

        1. Trump will make advice great again.

    1. What will Hillary blame the next uprising in the midst of her next failed intervention on, then?

      1. Republicans.

      2. The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (TM).

      3. Donald Trump, of course.

  4. When it’s not working, DO MOAR SPEND MOAR TAX MOAR!

    It’s shovel ready! Just give me trillions! Trust me!

    1. Finally, a politician willing to fix our crumbling infrastructure.

      1. Heh, until all the money mysteriously disappears.

  5. Wales vs Northern Ireland in 30 mins. Whom do you favour?

    1. That game should have come with a trigger warning. Too white and too much pink!

      Wales.

      1. Amazing how all the big teams (plus England) wound up in the same half of the draw.

      2. Srna shows Ronaldo who the real cry-baby is.

      3. At least somebody bothered to direct the ball into a net.

  6. OT (sortof): Annual Irony Day coming up

    We’re just weeks away from the Annual Irony ? the day devoted to celebrating a revolt against the authority of a red, white and blue bully (George III) while living under the thumb of ? a red, white and blue bully (Uncle).fourth 2

    We’re supposed to celebrate the former ? because it benefitted the latter.

    The American colonists were not unsaddled. They simply got a new rider. Why celebrate this?

    1. What gives any of us the moral right to impose our will on anyone else?

      Not a fair question. Makes me sad.

    2. That was a damn good piece.

  7. Airbnb, meanwhile, says the advertising ban will really hurt New Yorkers the most, by making it harder for some people to pay their bills by renting their extra space.

    Hey handsome, wanna rent some extra space.

  8. Another hijack attempt. Was this covered here? I might have missed it.

    Libertarian Paradise!

    Welcome to PorcFest, a weeklong camping festival billed as a libertarian utopia of sorts in the mountains of New Hampshire. Run by the Free State Project, the annual festival attracts 1,500 people from across the nation, who started trickling in Sunday.

    Why are they allowed to say porc? Isn’t that hate speech. I mean, Muslims might be offended, right?

    1. A bunch of Reasoners are headed up there, but no posts about it. I’m sure Doherty will give a summary of the awesome foolishness going on up there.

  9. “Of course, the First Amendment protects the free exchange of information, so long as it isn’t fraudulent or misleading.”

    Advertising an illegal service seems fraudulent to me – am I missing something?

    1. What’s fraudulent about it?

      1. People probably expect that the item being advertised is legal. If that’s not fraud, it’s certainly misleading.

    2. I disagree, it may be illegal and that’s a matter of legitimacy, but if I’m selling 100% pure Columbian cocaine, and it turns out to be 100% pure Columbian cocaine, there’s nothing fraudulent about that.

      1. This is why IANAL… but it does surprise me that additional legislation is needed to cover this.

      2. I declare you a merchant superhero, carry on.

  10. Run by the Free State Project, the annual festival attracts 1,500 people from across the nation, who started trickling in Sunday.

    People sell hamburgers without permits there. It’s like a little piece of Somalia, in New Hampshire.

    1. How can people possibly get to the campsite without Government Roadz?!

  11. More EU butthurt.

    Take this mess that the EU created!

    This only proves that the French are racist.

    1. Um, that was one major point of Brexit? Thanks, Pierre.

      1. No. I’m going to repost something from yesterday because i think its germane to this question about “how much the brexit had to do with immigration”

        – “”If you wanted to restrict immigration in the UK, you couldn’t so long as the UK was a member of the EU.”””

        I don’t think this is right. The UK retained control over direct immigration before/after joining the EU, and whom to grant permanent residency & passports, etc.

        But they had no control over whom other EU members let in their own countries, and consequently had to offer various “EU-Citizen” rights to.

        Also- the UK has agreements in place that allow citizens of commonwealth counties to immigrate. They are also a signatory to UN conventions providing shelter to “political refugees”; the Brexit has zero effect on those things (other than removing their obligations to current EU policies re: Syrians, etc)

        This article covers much of what i’m talking about. There are multiple categories

        – “immigration within commonwealth”
        – “Eu-free-movement”-immigration (mostly from eastern europe to date)
        – Outside EU, Outside Commonwealth “managed migration” (similar to H1B)
        – “asylum seekers”

        The Brexit only affects the second category.

        1. Remind me which country enjoys the special relation with the EU that Britain aspires to imitate. I’m drawing a blank, but I thought it’s Norway.

        2. Well, if I understand it correctly:

          Immigration within the commonwealth – they’re withdrawing from the Shengen Area, free movement requirements. Its why some people are freaking out about Ireland. Ireland is an independent nation and stays within the EU and Schengen. *North Ireland*, as part of the UK, leaves. That means to control immigration the UK may end up putting a wall back across the two nation – nations that you can freely walk between.

          In any case, the current system means that once you have legal permission to be in the EU, which can be given by *any* member country, you can freely travel within the Schengen Area – which means that Greece could give you permission to enter with the understanding that you’re going to carry your happy little ass to someone else’s free-shit picnic.

          So it actually affects all those categories.

          That’s not to say that the people voting for Brexit care much about immigration either way – they may actually be *for* it – but they certainly care about who has *control* of it.

          1. I thought the UK wasn’t part of Schengen.

          2. Immigration within the commonwealth – they’re withdrawing from the Shengen Area

            You’re confusing the UK Commonwealth with the EU. they’re entirely different things

            e.g.

            Commonwealth

            Shengen Area

            And the UK’s policy re: immigration from commonwealth partner-countries is entirely unaffected by their membership in the EU or not

            Immigration benefits
            Some Commonwealth countries offer visa-free entry for short visits made by Commonwealth citizens from countries . Some Commonwealth countries continue to allow Commonwealth citizens from other countries to become nationals/local citizens by registration rather than naturalisation, upon preferential terms, e.g. with a shorter required period of residency…

            Under their EU membership, the same sorts of agreements applied for anyone in the EU. On leaving the EU, the only people who benefit from this immigration-advantage are commonwealth members.

            Additionally, nothing re: UK’s status in the EU affects their status as signatory to UN convention on asylum seekers. Membership in the EU provided overlapping obligations; but these older ones don’t vanish when they leave the EU

          3. they may actually be *for* it – but they certainly care about who has *control* of it.

            This is a very good point.

            Simply treating anti-EU votes as anti-immigration is wrong. Its about sovereignty and economic independence; just because people want control of their own national policy doesn’t say anything about what they think those policies ultimately should be.

            That dovetails with my point that EU membership obligated them to *certain kinds* of immigration-permissiveness; namely, movement by people within the EU. Simply rejecting that does NOT mean they’ve suddenly rejected any and all immigration or offer of asylum. As noted – they still are party to other agreements which still make them a very-open country as far as immigration is concerned. Simply removing themselves from the continental union doesn’t suddenly make them “isolationist” or “xenophobic” in regards to immigration by any stretch of the imagination.

            1. Simply rejecting that does NOT mean they’ve suddenly rejected any and all immigration or offer of asylum.

              I didn’t suggest they had, but pertaining to that French mayor’s threat to relocate migrant camps to Britain, Brexit was understandably driven in part by worries about this sort of mass-movement. That isn’t a matter of immigration, but migration, and it’s worrisome. Immigrants put down roots and thrive, while these migrants, either economic migrants or refugees, to the extent they can be resettled, are not integrating culturally or economically. Immigration is a good thing insofar as immigrants enrich the country in which they settle, but it’s far from obvious that either natives or migrants are enriched by the mass movement of the latter. That’s my only point, and it’s funny to see Pierre make the point so plaintively while everyone else inside Europe denies it’s a problem at all.

              1. pertaining to that French mayor’s threat to relocate migrant camps

                Less of a threat and more of a kvetch, I suppose.

                1. What happened to the spittoon?

              2. Brexit was understandably driven in part by worries about this sort of mass-movement. That isn’t a matter of immigration, but migration, and it’s worrisome

                Certainly.

                My issue was initially with some arguments being made in the media which suggested that the principal reason for the “leave” vote was “Anti-Immigration”; i think it overlooks the many other ways in which the UK is one of the most internationally-welcoming countries on earth. Removing themselves from the EU doesn’t change that as much as people think – it just removes them from *that* particular source.

        3. So you’re saying It’s like letting ‘friends of friends’ see your Facebook page- which essentially means everyone on the planet can see your Facebook page.

    2. Jeez, the EU hasn’t even fallen apart yet and already France and England are sniping at each other like in the good old days. It warms my heart.

    3. “It is we who accept the hot potato.”

      Can someone provide both the literal french for this, as well as any insight into the assumed meaning?

      Does she mean, “Accepted”? Meaning, Britain tossed them the hot potato then decided it doesn’t want to play the game anymore?

      1. Heh, that would be a good description of what actually happened. As the most attractive country to ‘asylum seekers’ the UK has basically pointed to France and said ‘you’re it, no tagbacks, and I’m not playing anymore’.

        So the French get to deal with a lot more of the consequences of the policies their government likes to implement.

        1. Impressive that all the ‘asylum seekers’ again in those photos look to be 100% young men. Where are all these families/women/children that Obama keeps telling us about?

          1. Obama likes to, how to put it elegantly, embellish shall we say?

    4. Also – the article points out that the issue there has nothing to do with the EU; it was part of bilateral agreements between UK/France/Belgium about “checking people’s papers on the Europe side of the channel”

      I presume they did the deal before opening up the Eurotunnel?

      Juxtaposed controls (in French: bureaux ? contr?les nationaux juxtapos?s, or “BCNJ”) refer to an arrangement between Belgium, France and the United Kingdom whereby immigration checks on certain cross-Channel routes take place before boarding the train or ferry, rather than upon arrival after disembarkation….

      In 1991, the Sangatte Protocol was signed between France and the UK, an agreement that provided for border checkpoints to be set up by France at Cheriton in Kent and for border checkpoints to be set up by the UK at Coquelles in France. The Protocol was brought into effect by the Channel Tunnel (International Arrangements) Order 1993.

      As a result of the agreement, starting from 1994, when travelling from the UK to France by Eurotunnel (road vehicle trains), French immigration and customs checks both take place before departure from Cheriton, rather than on arrival in France. When travelling from France to the UK by Eurotunnel, travellers have to clear both French exit checks and UK immigration and customs checks in Coquelles before boarding the train.

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  13. If you feel like wanting to beat your head against a wall, here’s Ben Shapiro debating Kshama Sawant on the merits of the minimum wage.

    Her points sway between piffle about the moral imperative (presuming it’s moral to disemploy people rather than letting them eke by at a wage with which she disagrees), Keynesian claptrap, and helping make Ben’s points about corporatism without comprehending them.

    1. Easily the lulziest moment is her nonanswer as to whether teenagers should be exempted from the $15 minimum wage, which she called a red herring and proceeded to dismiss the question with reference to how few teenagers are in the workforce. Let that sit for a moment.

      1. She then has the temerity to suggest Ben and MW opponents are unserious about teenage employment, since they are in the main not suburban kids looking for pocket money (something I doubt Ben asserted), but the children of working-class parents who are, inexplicably, also earning the minimum wage. Utter toss.

        1. they are in the main not suburban kids looking for pocket money (something I doubt Ben asserted), but the children of working-class parents who are, inexplicably, also earning the minimum

          This isn’t true. Data on minimum wage earners show that the “average” household earnings is above the national median.

          The min-wage earners under the age of 20 are the ones who do have the higher household incomes, tend to be in schools, etc. When people say, “In the main” you’d think they are suggesting the majority. But the majority ARE the young ones =

          Minimum-wage workers under 25 are typically not their family’s sole breadwinners. Rather, they tend to live in middle-class households that do not rely on their earnings. Generally, they have not finished their schooling and are working part-time jobs. Over three-fifths of them (62 percent) are currently enrolled in school.[5] These workers represent the largest group that would benefit directly from a higher minimum wage, provided they kept or could find a job.

          Its the ~40% or so minority that are over 24 that tend to be lower income and working multiple jobs. But they’re not ‘representative’ of MW earners by a long shot.

          1. more

            Adults who earn the minimum wage are less likely to live in middle- and upper-income families than are the teenagers and young adults who earn the minimum wage. Nonetheless, three-fourths of older workers earning the minimum wage live above the poverty line. They have an average family income of $42,500 a year, well above the poverty line of $22,350 per year for a family of four. Most of them choose to work part-time, and a sizeable number are married.

            The average older minimum-wage earner simply does not fit the stereotype of a worker living on the edge of destitution.

          2. How many more teens with working-class backgrounds would be working but for employment restrictions and the minimum wage? I would be much more comfortable hiring on a black kid from a suburban middle-class background than a poor white kid from the ghetto, and if I’m stuck doing so at $15/hr, why would I take a risk on the latter?

    2. My only hope is Sawant won’t just be seattle’s problem any more.

  14. Speaking of massive Brexit Butthurt…

    Go find the NYT story about the multitudinous weepy youths of England who have had their future stolen from them by a bunch of racist old fogeys.

    It’s a bleedin tragedy, it is.

    1. SCARED OLD WHITE PEOPLE SMDH

    2. They have the rest if their lives to destroy their country.

  15. Hawaii’s Latest Effort To Put Gun Owners on a Watch List Could Violate Second Amendment

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/25/…..-database/

    1. If the person does not voluntarily give up their arms [after getting blacklisted], the police chief has permission to seize the weapons.

      What could possibly go wrong?

    2. First off this FBI database is total bullshit and I’m guessing this thing was all Obama admins idea to begin with. Testing the waters for a national database. Arrested for what. Anything?

  16. Her points sway between piffle about the moral imperative (presuming it’s moral to disemploy people rather than letting them eke by at a wage with which she disagrees), Keynesian claptrap, and helping make Ben’s points about corporatism without comprehending them.

    The obvious solution is to prevent businesses from firing anybody.

    What could possibly go wrong?

    1. Damn always refresh before posting

    2. I have been to countries where it is illegal to fire employees. If you haven’t then let me just tell you that whatever you imagine the effects of that to be in reality they are exactly that but 1000x worse in magnitude.

  17. I like Daniel Hannan. I hope he’s soon unemployed.

  18. Probably one of the least crazy conversations about guns that I’ve a group of liberals have. Not libertarian by any standards but better than usually.

    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/mah…..bout-guns/

  19. Kim Davis, the Kentucky clerk who spent six days in jail for refusing to issue gay marriage licenses, has said that a new state law taking affect soon provides her the religious freedom accommodation she has sought from the beginning, and is putting an end to legal proceedings.

    “”I am thankful to the legislators for passing this law, to Gov. Matt Bevin for signing it, to Liberty Counsel for representing me, and most of all to Jesus Christ who redeemed me and is my solid rock on which I stand,” Davis said in a statement, shared by the Liberty Counsel.””

  20. Shut up about the special snowflakes, or else!

    Did Preet get a sex change? He’d really look better with some facial hair.

    1. I love the “extremism” bait and switch.

      To paraphrase Trump the administration should be referring to the threat of jihadist Islam, not “extremism.”

      As I think the administration knows very well, “extremism” is understood by many to mean “being really, really sincere and zealous about beliefs I don’t share.” Basically, it’s intense belief, with a pass given to *our own* intense beliefs.

      The thing is, we *want* to recruit Muslims with intense beliefs – that is, Muslims who care as much about fighting the jihadists as the jihadists care about fighting *their* enemies.

      If someone is defending America, we don’t want them to be “moderate” and say, “well, I’ll go out and take a look around and maybe shoot some terrorists, then go home and have a beer and see if there’s anything on TV.” We want people working long hours, risking their lives, showing some commitment to defending America.

      Likewise with people who fight ISIS. We don’t want some lackadaisical “militia” whose commander figures that it’s cool to drive around in an American jeep and impress the chicks, but once he meets with a military setback he changes sides.

      1. You bring up a good point. By not referring to a specific form of extremism in explicit terms when that form of extremism must be fought militarily and with law enforcement it opens the door for all forms of ‘extremism’ to be fought in that manner. I suggest that is the inevitable direction of creep, especially with the banana republic shitweasel we have as a president now. I can only imagine he and his acolytes are slavering at the chance to go after bitter clingers.

        In direct response to the article itself: He is not a ‘seekrit mooslim’ but his sympathies are certainly with them. For good old fashioned, red blooded Americans, not so much. I ask again, if he did mean harm to American society and culture what would he do differently?

    2. “The spread of false information or inflammatory or threatening statements about the perpetrators…may violate federal law.”

      I heard the perpetrators raped a bunch of goats the day before. I also heard they had a gay thing for Muhammad.

      1. What? Nothing about the allegations that may or may not exist that Wendy J Olson is a dog fucker and a pedophile?

        1. I’m pretty sure those are true

          1. I really hearing that, but I thought it was necropedophile?

  21. “First Amendment protects the free exchange of information, so long as it isn’t fraudulent or misleading.”

    So, the First Amendment does not protect anything any national level Democrat has said since, say, 1968?

  22. Free speech?

    My, you’re adorable.

    1. She is a veiled light-footed wanderer, Brian- escaping from the laser-eyed salvation bureaucrats who would remove her ankles in a glance and burn her cloud circus under a tornado of legislated pyrotechnics.

  23. OT:

    No shortage of whiney leftists holding office in the UK:

    “UK lawmaker calls for Parliament to ignore EU referendum as millions call for second vote”

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2…..tcmp=hpbt1

    1. They get a free sample of my Butthurt Lotion, but no 2nd referendum. Even Cameron wasn’t stupid enough to try that.

      1. My god, can you imagine the recounts and the court cases if Trump and Hillary have vote totals as close as Gore/Bush in 2000? It will be madness.

        1. Even if Trump won by 20%, there will still be that. You know the reality challenged dimwits cannot move to Canada even if they wanted to, as so eloquently mansplained by Gavin McInnes.. The leftist have left reality completely. If other people don’t agree with them completely, something must be wrong. It’s their ‘moment’, right? 1000 year reign. Someone had to cheat. But if they win by .00001%, democracy is working! Fucking hypocrites. Brexit won by more than 1 million votes, and by 2 million in Britain/Wales. If I were the UK, I’d just cut loose Scotland and Northern Ireland and say ‘there you go, the EU will continue to provide you with free ponies, hasta la vista baby’.

          1. If other people don’t agree with them completely, something must be wrong.

            You’re a leftist and you lost an election; the reason is =

            a) democracy is broken
            b) your opponents are driven by hate and fear
            c) [x] groups failed to vote in their self-interests
            d) there’s too much money in the system
            e) all of the above

    2. I have seen articles floating around Tumblr asking people to sign petitions to get the vote redone and showing pictures of tweets about how this completely real person voted to leave but now regrets it.

    3. BEST OUT OF 3!!

      1. They should have used, “Rock, Paper, Scissors,” to decide the Brexit vote in a Best of Se7en series.

  24. I fucking hate articles popped out of the goddamn magic Reason vulva authored by ‘Reason Staff’. What is this amorphous juxtaposed skeleton of pluckish typeridden fingers selecting from the goddamn super ethers of this pamphlet of hell? jesus christ plus muhammed starfishies…

    1. Bitch, you fucking botched the thread your complaint was supposed to be tacked upon.

    2. It is not these gathered mental ruminations I detest. It is the fucking mystical cloud of ‘Reason Goddamn Staff’. Additional addendum tacked onto this flapping stapled bullshit. Why the FUCK did I even post this in the first motherfucking place? Lost the goddamn coppers to my fucking space yacht.

      1. I fucking do not even, you FUCKING dude… way too much goddamn cocain

  25. How do you let a guy stay in and get hammered for 12 runs in an inning? After four or five it should be obvious that he doesn’t have it today, pull him so he he’s not humiliated.

    1. Somebody wanted to teach someone a lesson.

  26. I will attempt to fucking elucidate what a goddamn violation is. And this violation is fucking not designed to detract from the mindgasm of the delightful author above jizzing his brain cock river into the mouth minds eating all the fonts above. However, i shall attempt to add another goddamn slice to the pamphlet sandwich and this is that motherfucking freedom is not being goddamn educated into the hellishly weak minds of emergent children/teens/sub adults.

    These modern weak motherfuckers couldn’t bring down a goddamn rodeo of angels if they were paid in Oreo cookies and a degree.

    1. The mouth and mind is the fountain of humanity. The expression of a SINGLE center of a billion neurotransmitters firing a trillion thoughts is the clay of new civilizations even though the motherfucking capitalists and socialists demand that their horrible wealth cancers claim to be the first on the staggered planets fluttering through the time streams. Nah, fucking wealth FOLLOWS the deep thinkers, the creative priests, the dancing comets, the smashing lost suicidals, the space grafitti artists- all who slather their prism crushing and river churning time bombs way the FUCK before dry crusty moldy wealth slides in and chases out the flexible liquid humans.

      This fucking island of last and lost is the final curtain from the jaded demigods and the bloodthirsty torturers because this fucking island is the most powerful metaphor for human wings this goddamn planet has ever evolved, brother and sister.

      And the history of this battle is NOT FUCKING being taught today at any level aside from the dark dusty eerie alleys where powerful wings of freedom flap in subdued atomic majesty.

  27. America is the last step on the capstone. When that shiny gold tip descends on the pyramid of tomes after the roiling rivers of billions of lost minds swerving with swords and canons and ripping flesh metals.

    America is the last valley, man. After you rise from this svelte tempered cascade of pleas all that lies beyond is the repetitions of dark stamps plodding into the ashen ruins of ghost cities and poltergeist nations.

  28. Burning oranges and pinks blast from the geodes of my planted resolve on this fucking land
    If you bend you arms fast enough you will swim on the stiff streams of goddamn legends blaring their
    golden wings on the zigging guitar string of the motherfucking last few generations, brother and .75 sister

    Monsters in streaming lightning pulverizing the air from their skulls like liberty tanks shooting fresh dreams
    and lost Cherokees crying on the spinning whims of modern traces

  29. Can’t fucking cut a trap door in my air because my goddamn mind needs to breath new universes and then when I punched a hole in the throat of reality my veins bled reactions most violently because we aren’t designed to escape this thing, bro.

  30. Aubrey de Grey is the fucking streaming beard future surfer of the coming fucking genetic atomic apocalypse of boulevards of existence choices. Goddamn neon signs, or forgive a bitch, LED signs which are shitty communist representations of a lost art of human gems flickering at 2 in the fucking morning on a deserted city street: “FREE GENE UPDATE for 5 dollar tacos!” FREE GENE MODS for food.

    motherfucking gene mods will be exchanged like cod waw maps, bitch. All because of Aubrey De Grey- the beast of genes. Plus one for Liz Parrish, tho. peace out, gene modifier gods. Play with your genomes, bitches.

  31. Fucking stroll into the goddamn ADG Gene Body Shop and lay like a naked blonde bitch letting the cucumbers hit her closed eyes like a first born hit by a Superman Jesus Buster laser in a goddamn spa and get your atomic structure updated like a fucking 1959 Pink Cadillac.

  32. “Remachine your genetic structure and gain the fleshly revival you’ve always dreamed of!” ONLY $1495.00!! Your SKIN will revert 20 years and your mind will STILL retain its wisdom while kicking the asses of Harvard newbies! ONLY 1500 bucks! Takes ONLY 45 minutes in the gene modification shop to REGAIN TWENTY years!!

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    fuckya, the future plus Aubrey D Grey

  33. OT from AC’s monologue:
    Obo shows up in the Bay Area for an ‘entrepreneurs meeting’ so he can screw-up traffic and rub shoulders with people who actually produce value; I’m quite certain none of that rubbed off on him.
    “President Obama to entrepreneurs: We need your help”
    […]
    “A day after Britain voted to leave the European Union, President Obama told 700 entrepreneurs from around the globe that their leadership is needed to bridge the world’s growing cultural rifts.”
    (pay wall alert) http://www.sfchronicle.com/bus…..ate-result
    Anyhow, in the print version, there is this pull-quote:
    “The best thing the government can do is convene the forum, make sure the coffee is hot, and get out of the way”.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    SoS John Kerry.
    Say WHAT?!

    1. The fucking white forest of orange trees and grey limbs
      was buffeted on the cliffs of binary wombs and hells
      and a long flitting laser of jamming crushing parallels slipped
      between the screams of the dim worlds and this metallic
      rivulet of shredded parallel universes I believe they referred to
      as Sevo blasted along a rugged trek where the even the stars
      refuse to travel and only lost scratchy poets scream into the
      throat of the space gods.

    2. Oddly insightful for Kerry.

  34. So, it has come to this.

  35. for the love of the future
    her tender children measure in
    the billions
    and the love of the past
    captures all of children and their futures
    the present is the magician of the past and future
    flipping life cards and dreams as easily
    as the odd loving glance hunted
    by the master of the world.

  36. reflections in the wood are dull
    while mirrors lie
    and life is majestic
    as the tomb

  37. tears are paint on the canvas
    of the lost
    while smiles color the dreams
    of the imagineer

  38. I knew a sparkling gem and he
    wriggled through lots of verses
    in the ancient days and I knew how he
    died even as his lull and dancing brooks hop
    the trains of many fucking rich stadiums…
    his ghost echoes through the lilt and staggers of
    often many a shrill scream uttered from the
    rich studios that are blank with desire and are
    entirely blinded with the inconsequential.

  39. The brain is the cocaine of your limbs and nerves, brother
    Heart should be kept tap-dancing and this can occur when
    the brain is lively and svelte
    Joints and long muscles are countries on the human earth
    and should enjoy the cocaine of the brain while this
    bodyship flies among the green leaves and tall
    flowers and peaceful streams erupting from the
    fruitful dreams and tinted swerves rounding universes of strumming reflections
    of a lost boy standing in a gray rain

  40. Ladders to the stars, man
    are made of tears and the lost
    This is why America exist once
    America is a ladder to the stars
    but she doesn’t deserve this title
    because she has become ignorant and blank
    Ladders to the stars, man
    Place them against the tall clouds, sister
    because the earth is being churned on
    the darkness of hell across
    all her curves.

    Ladders to the stars, man.
    Can someone make ladders to the stars.
    Please let us off this disastrous shit hill.
    I will plant hibiscus on swinging bright Diana with trails as sweeping as a thousand galaxies.

  41. If you strum a star it will offer you a million smiles
    I did this once and forgot that I sucked for a moment

  42. Packers and Movers Hyderabad – http://getpackers.com/packers-…..hyderabad/
    Packers and Movers Mumbai – http://getpackers.com/packers-and-movers-mumbai/

    1. Cost for packing and moving to NGC 2685.

      Prob moving in August, Indian strange fuck with the intergalactic trucking company and shit.

  43. A one-legged woman in green in this bar on the edges of humanity
    came over and placed her arms alongside my triceps
    and my throat jerked and my tongue sweated as my entire
    fucking body was told by my eyes to fucking be a beast of burden
    to the poetry of glances and signals to this sorceress of tripping dimensions
    she is real I am not. Her hot hands on my scared throat are real. I am falling to the
    trumpets of her horses and cloud outlaws travelling on the dreams of my fantasies
    as they brand the planets of my emerging youth.

  44. winds of space hurt like a whipping star travelling like a monster band
    do not picnic next to the sun because all that shit will burn your clothes off
    and travelling star bands leave space wakes which burn orbiting homes to
    the effervescent- most def not to the ground right? no ground in space. ya
    where the FUCK do i actually live? in space or on an actual planet… speak to me
    BRAIN!!!

  45. under the everyday blue
    your eyes connect with an
    emerging evolution of being
    alive and then heading toward
    death…
    Living and yet. Ending.
    Spilling your semen inside beautiful woman and making
    genetic uprisings that merge into the times
    of your bullshit ego threatening everything you fucking think
    is important but finding after creating fucking children. that. you.
    are no. longer. the now. and your offspring have become the
    fountainhead of your blort- [peace sweet loving beast Stanhope]
    YOU and I are the reverse merging of bursting Blorts!
    Fuck

    1. oh this is a decent Playa. A powerful fucking Manhattan highly desired by Asian lovelies in sheer clothing.

  46. deep shadows under the second moon
    hold the secrets of young lips connecting
    in a galaxy of the future blasted from the poetic
    trumpet of moon painters
    who walk the stars visiting lovers
    planting love on the trickling rivers of
    times and liquid songs
    the moon painters wander off to another
    lovers in yet another parallel finesse delight

  47. if space is broken by the wrench of dreams
    it will spill rivers of heavenly romance
    on sunsets of diamonds and naked breasts
    heaving to the droplets of kisses planted by
    agile cyborg the star farmer.

  48. Agile farms space for lovely maidens
    and captures them in his spacecraft
    of diamond nightingales.

  49. a very tall building on a distant sun
    none of you have heard of because
    my brain has tripped enough to know of it
    has an office on it in the futures of times
    that you, my brothers, would love because
    a misty space romance of lovers occurred on this
    future building of sun lovers so distant so as to be
    teary eyed from a million miles away but because
    the lilting swag of orchestras penetrate time like
    distant suns maybe this story is far closet than
    not.

  50. my eyes are thick with rainbows and octopus arms
    and my arms are incapable of being arms
    and my legs are numb and my spine has wings and my teeth look like
    gold and my dog is super furry and keeps wanting
    fight me all night but I cannot because agile is shit out of luck and bullshit
    can’t even fight an angel because all my limbs are like pasta reams
    and my muscles are like playdo except for my goddamn cock which is
    erect like America!

  51. I just fucked a beautiful thread again with all my goddamn pluck hell.
    Sorry, sweet brethren and angel sisters. agile ingested too many fuck drugs and booze this eve.

    however, a little birdie from my hearth escaped and whistled that it loves reason mystics and prophetesses and i believed the little birdie

    good night, vikings- you fucking awesome bitches.
    sorry i behaved poorly. but i am truly fucking gone and am about to go deepest,
    peace.love… wave

    1. God love ya, AC. Always glad to have ya around, brother.

    2. Those were great, AC.

      1. Just out of curiosity, what’s the appeal of poetry like that?

  52. My take: cocaine is a delicate muse.

  53. Why is there no new content? Is this new normal at Reason? The beast must be fed.

    1. Fist of Obtuseness, Agile Cyborg, Reason’s very own Samuel Taylor Coleridge, has provided (as he selflessly does) a clinic on Post-Modern Stream of Consciousness Poetry and Social Commentary…

      I wish they would hire him. At least Reason had the sense to fire Riggs…

    2. It’s been this way on weekends for a couple of weeks.

      Maybe it’s a KMW thing.

      1. Maybe it’s a money thing.

        1. Way to make me feel like I”m being babysat by interns.

          If that’s the case, then I blame the statists!!!

        2. In all seriousness, I actually try to stay on topic.

          There are a couple of things I’d like to add on a Brexit article, or in the AM links, I’ve got a general observation about ‘shrooms.

          My hands are tied.

          . . . and my feet are handcuffed to a brass bedpost, and she’s coming at me with a candle! Melted wax, Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God!!!

          Actually, having your hands tied is just an idiom. But somebody else would have come back with that eventually, so I just thought I’d take the initiative.

  54. The Constitution Party has an excellent quote on ballot access (with accompnaying map):

    “America’s representative system of constitutional governance is doomed to fail if voters continue to be offered only vanilla and chocolate when they what they really want is mint chocolate chip or a hot fudge sundae.”

    1. Wait a minute, is the CP is saying that although Americans want to stop being crapped on, they still really want a Dirty Sanchez?

  55. Polygamy making a comeback?

    http://www.bbc.com/future/stor…..re-of-love

    1. Don’t call it a comeback, it’s been here for years.

      “”The idea of sexual exclusivity started emerging fairly late in the game,” says professor of law Hadar Aviram at UC Hastings College of the Law in San Francisco, US.”

      Interestingly, the letters in “Professor Hadar Aviram” can be rearranged to spell “A Diarrheas Vapor Forms.”

    2. When I was in my 20s, I lived in a beach house with three women.

      The bad generally outweighs the good.

      For one thing, when women live in the same house, like that, they’re giving off pheromones, or whatever, and that makes them synch up their cycles. It was World War III once a month, and it would take weeks for the house to recover only to have World War III all over again.

      Islam isn’t even strong enough to overcome the acrimony. Friends who’ve been to Saudi tell me that they make homes for men with multiple wives that are essentially like a duplex, triplex, or quadroplex. Think four separate homes with four separate entrances all coming together in the same spot. In other words, the religion itself isn’t enough to overcome the natural acrimony; despite having the law, the police, the religion, and the culture behind polygamy, they still have to keep them in separate houses for their own sanity.

      Fundamentalist Mormonism is more powerful than Islam that way. I understand they believe that your husband gets a say in whether you get into heaven, and if they’ve overcome the natural acrimony, I’d attribute it to that. But how do you get women to believe that in their hearts? I think you have to raise them to believe it from birth. And they can’t cook. I mean, they can make food, but Mormon food is terrible.

      http://tinyurl.com/nq3sxxo

      1. Our family get togethers are estrogen hell. I basically have to be in another room most of the time. Can’t get a word in anyways.

      2. There’s a lovable space that needs your face, four’s company too.

  56. In lieu of a new thread, maybe it’s time we talked about the “Top Comments” thing at the top of each thread.

    Anybody else noticed that 1) the comments up there tend to be from invader trolls, and 2) the comments up there tend to be . . . sub par.

    I’ve long known that the people who comment on articles here at Hit & Run are just a small percentage of the people who actually read the site. My first instinct when I see some fresh troll that seems to know us (especially on weekends) is “Hi, Tulpa!”, but a lot of the time, they’re probably just lurkers.

    I don’t think I’ve ever seen a regular commenter post anything in the “Top Comments” section. I avoid responding to people up there because I hope Reason somehow makes a ton of money from that feature, and there isn’t anything I would say to the people I’ve seen comnment up there that would encourage them to remain engaged with the site.

    I’m just sayin’.

    1. I’ve Stylish-ed out that section – never even see it.

    2. I’ve used it once or twice to outbid Mary, and a spammer.

  57. Chimps vs Bonobos. I don’t understand how you make a headline that has nothing to do with story.

    http://www.bbc.com/earth/story…..-irritable

    1. Enough election coverage.

      1. Yeah, I was hoping Robby would be here to tell us about what some feminist group at Northwestern said something stupid.

      2. Ain’t that the truth! Lotta poo flinging these days…..

  58. Jazz has no problem with police fishing expeditions as you would expect.

    http://hotair.com/archives/201…..he-guilty/

  59. Poor Chuck Todd. He is completely baffled by the concept of a presidential candidate who has ongoing business interests and who continues to attend to them in during the campaign.

    Legitimate candidates’ only jobs have ever been in public service.

    1. Brooksie, did you stop following Morning Joke and Krugabe? I noticed, upon my return, you rarely comment about them. I kinda miss your snarky commentary WRT them, particularly Mika “Ralph Wiggum” Brzezinsky.

    2. You mean like Hillary attending to the CGI influence peddling?

  60. Waltee Williams notices some hypocrisy when it comes to race and sex discrimination.

    http://humanevents.com/2016/06…..f-america/

    1. Jesus fuckin’ Christ. Is Walter really that stupid? He thinks ‘fundamental transformation’ really means righting all the wrongs and singing Kumbaya?

      Is Walter a real person or just a cartoon parody of the perfect useful idiot?

      1. You have to read him with sarc tag on.

        1. Oh.

          I was up very early then had one or two and went back to sleep. I guess I am not awake yet.

  61. Artucke about Oakland police sex scandal. I bet no one does time. Maybe the girl.

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/24/…..index.html

    1. Article about

    2. All the upcoming vacations and promotions are going to put a strain on the city’s budget, though.

  62. Thanks Groovus- I have been trying to wean myself off of commenting as a full time vocation. It seems as if I can only take our nation’s ongoing slide into degeneracy and chaos in small doses, these days. Also, I had some major remodeling done on my cervical spine a couple of months ago, which slowed me down.

    Krugabe’s unabashed nonstop shilling for the unrepentently criminal Clinton barely merits notice, at this point. I guess he really wants to be Treasury Secretary. We’re gonna need a bigger printing press.

    1. Get well soon, Brooks!

    2. Ouch. Good luck.

      GM, did you see my response yesterday about ‘trolls’?

  63. Just listened to the Montana governors’ candidates debate. Same old, same old. Slobbery paeans to jobs, education, infrastructure, public access [to “public” hunting/fishing, et c, through private property- a big, big deal out here], 2nd amendment… and, of course, the weird Montanan “evul shadowy out of state kkkorporate interests!” xenophobia which infests nearly every single mention of economic conditions in this state.

    You’ll be pleased to know our sitting governor, Bullock, did not fail to disparage the evil machinations of the Koch Brothers, Americans for Prosperity and their odious Rethuglitard puppets in the state legislature. Also bragged about his veto, at the behest of the law enforcement community of constitutional carry, couched in the sort of snotty disdain for the idea that would sound perfectly natural coming from the slobbery crumb-bedecked maw of Chris Christie.

    1. Leftwing paranoia on full display. There isn’t anything the Koch Machine can’t do!

      My favorite tactic has been the Bullock campaign’s appeals to xenophobia (Gianforte is from New Jersey; he ain’t no homegrown Montanan!). I thought those kinds of appeals were reserved to rightwingers.

  64. Moments ago-

    Jake Tapper, talking to Corker about “no fly no buy” [paraphrased, obviously]

    You voted against the bill. Most Americans don’t give a shit about due process, or whether people may have been unjustly placed on a terror watch list. What do you say to them?

    1. *tosses founding documents onto table*

  65. You voted against the bill. Most Americans don’t give a shit about due process, or whether people may have been unjustly placed on a terror watch list. What do you say to them?

    Fuck off, Fascist?

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  68. As evident by the numbers of members serving time, NY’s government is an enterprise run by criminals.

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