Hey Kids, Don't Be Suckers for Socialism!

Instapundit Glenn Reynolds points to the real-time economics lessons coming out of Venezuela...


Why do so many millennials self-describe as socialist? Given the decades-ago collapse of the Soviet Union, the enduring poverty of Cuba, and the surge in younger Americans pledging support of redistributionist Bernie Sanders, it's a troubling question.

As former Reason pollster Emily Ekins, now at the Cato Institute, has noted, millennials are the only age group that has a favorable attitude toward "socialism."

The stock answer for this is that Americans under about 35 or so have no real memories of the CCCP or, for that matter, China before it embraced some elements of free markets and thus raised about 680 million people out of extreme poverty.

Shorn of those in-your-face examples of state-owned means of production, goes this line of thinking, the pure "Feel the Bern" idealism of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" overwhelms millennials with warm and fuzzy feelings. But as Ekins and Joy Pullman argued a while back at The Federalist (and as Ekins and I had done here at Reason in 2014), it turns out the millennials simply don't know what socialism means. If you define it as a general social safety net, they're for it (as are most Americans). But the kids also really like profits, and entrepreneurs, and they really love the idea of starting their own business someday. So the apparent love for socialism has less to do with being hatched after the "end of history" (1989-1991) or going to colleges exclusively staffed by latter-day Trotskyites or anything. It simply reflects lack of a common language. It turns out that millennials are commies as much as they speak a different language than us graybeards who remember 1989 as one of the most amazing years in human liberation.


In any case, when it comes to contemporary history, writes Glenn Reynolds of Instapundit, Venezuela is a real-time lesson in applied economics. For all the Hollywood fans of Hugo Chavez (check this out for a sampling), that country is reaping the whirlwind of a centralized, state-controlled economy right now, and all images flowing north are truly terrifying: Empty shelves, desperate residents, crackdowns on demonstrators.

As Reynolds notes at USA Today, capitalism may not be perfect, but it's preferable to socialism.

The daughter of Venezuela's socialist ruler, Hugo Chavez, is the richest individual in Venezuela, worth billions and billions of dollars. In Cuba, Fidel Castro reportedly has lived — pretty much literally — like a king, even as his subjects dwelt in poverty. In the old Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, as Hedrick Smith reported in his The Russians, the Communist Party bigshots had lavish country houses and apartments in town stocked with hand-polished fresh fruit, even as the common people stood in line for hours at state-run stores in the hopes of getting staples.

Reynolds argues that what's going on right now, both in Venezuela and in the U.S. 2016 campaign, is a teachable moment that we shouldn't gloss over:

America's New Class isn't the super-rich (they tend to donate to Hillary), but the upper-middle-class employees of nonprofits, universities and government agencies. They benefit twice from the kinds of programs that Bernie supports: Often, they're employed to administer them, or receive funds for providing services (think college administrators who, unsurprisingly, heavily support Bernie and Hillary), and then they also receive the benefits, since their kids are more likely to go to college than, say, a Kroger cashier's. (And if we ever wind up with government-run health care, ask yourself who'll get the hip replacement first — a woman who works as a cashier at Kroger's or a senior bureaucrat in the Department of Health and Human Services).

Read the whole thing here.

A couple of years back, we put together a special Web page about millennials. Check it out now to see why millennials aren't listening to you, to learn "5 Myths About Millennials," to relive youth panics "from flappers to hipsters," and to find out the "favorite millennials" of foks as varied as Frank Portman (author of the King Dork books and leader of the Mr. T Experiment), Nirvana's Krist Novoselic, magician Penn Jillette, "renegade" historian Thaddeus Russell, and libertarian movement eminence Sharon Presley. And, oh yeah, Glenn Reynolds, who also teaches at University of Tennessee Law School along with running Instapundit. Who the hell did they all pick?

NEXT: Peter Suderman on How the Widescreen Comics Movement Paved the Way for the Era of Superhero Movies

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  1. Salon, 2013, Hugo Chavez’s economic miracle
    …No, Chavez became the bugaboo of American politics because his full-throated advocacy of socialism and redistributionism at once represented a fundamental critique of neoliberal economics, and also delivered some indisputably positive results. Indeed, as shown by some of the most significant indicators, Chavez racked up an economic record that a legacy-obsessed American president could only dream of achieving….

    1. …When a country goes socialist and it craters, it is laughed off as a harmless and forgettable cautionary tale about the perils of command economics. When, by contrast, a country goes socialist and its economy does what Venezuela’s did, it is not perceived to be a laughing matter ? and it is not so easy to write off or to ignore. It suddenly looks like a threat to the corporate capitalism, especially when said country has valuable oil resources that global powerhouses like the United States rely on….

      1. It’s like Salon had never heard of a commodities bubble. Oh, right – Salon.

        1. They’ll just think Maduro fucked up what Chavez built.

      2. David Sirota, the author, should be required to print out that article and eat it on camera.

        1. If we went full progtard, We’d recommend he be investigated under the RICO act. but we’re not like them.

  2. hand-polished fresh fruit

    What? This is a thing? Google even came up with nothing.

    1. I believe it is a euphemism…

  3. I have nothing to learn from a person in a Che or CCCP t-shirt.

    1. The Che T-shirt does look pretty cool, though.

      1. /whack!

        Still think it’s cool?

      2. I used to have an Aeroflot ball cap. I always wore it during my pilot’s license training.

    2. I learn who to shoot when the time comes.

  4. Mamas, don’t let your babies grow up to be commies…

  5. Glenn Greenwald, Justin Raimondo, Lew Rockwell, Eric Margolis, John Pilger and Jacob Hornberger have a mad at Gillespie.

      1. The first five have defended Chavez (and Raimondo attacked Gillespie for his comments about Chavez’s death) while the latter’s articles on Venezuela are mostly about US hypocrisy and Pinochet…

        1. How about some proof that Rockwell actually defended Chavez, straight-up?

    1. Sometimes your enemies say more about you than the company you keep.

  6. Check out Oh and one of their “independent” links is to

  7. Millennials will create political and policy headaches for the USA for decades to come; they’re hostile to the concept of freedom of speech, have interpreted multiculturalism to mean “don’t copy other cultures, asshole”, believe that you can rape somebody by staring the “wrong” way, and have favorable views of socialism/communism because they’re used to having easy decadent lives where everything was handed to them on silver platters by their parents with little work.

    Let’s hope we don’t stumble into electing one as president but that’s unlikely since they’re the most populous cohort ever.

    /disgruntled GenX’er

    1. Hopefully they’ll wise up when they enter the workforce and start paying taxes. I’m not holding my breath though.

      1. Or when they run afoul of one their own insane policies.

    2. I would just say that our perceptions are, to an extent, colored by our sources. Most of the coverage we’re reading is for these guys in college. And *everyone* is a douche in college.

      There are several milennials that post here that are reasonably level-headed, and while there definitely will be challenges in dealing with these guys as they enter the workforce (as there already are), when rock meets reality its the rock that crumbles – always has been, always will be.

      Not that that won’t stop them from having their own little fantasies about how the world works – they’ll just do what most people do and compartmentalize and keep separate the lessons they learn IRL from their fantasy about how things *should* be.

      How do you think Hollywood actors – raw business machines whose sole purpose is to sell *themselves* in an amazingly competitive dog-eat-dog industry – can then decry entrepreneurship and support governments in Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, etc?

    3. yeah I really don’t get how being like “oh, I can’t play that, that’s black music” is the non-racist thing to do now.

  8. Shouldn’t Nick have interviewed Emily for a ReasonTV video?

    1. He should have commissioned a poll.

  9. Why do so many millennials self-desribe as socialist? Given the decades-ago collapse of the Soviet Union, the enduring poverty of Cuba, and the surge in younger Americans pledging support of redistributionist Bernie Sanders, it’s a troubling question

    So what about the Libertarian Moment? Is “self-desribe(sic) as socialist” proof of libertarianism?

  10. I think it might be wise to distinguish between voluntary socialism and state-mandated socialism – what I call Pretend Socialism.

    Even Marx was left to “predict” that the state would (have to) wither away.

    1. Voluntary socialism is not possible over a long period of time or among a large population. Not without force. You can in theory get together a group of likeminded individuals and give it ago, but ‘libertarian socialism’ is not possible.

      1. That has been claimed but only for very large societies/communities I bet. Voluntary socialism is viable IMHO in small communities / groups

        1. Like all those communes in the 1960’s that lasted about three months?

          From each according to their ability, to each according to their need doesn’t work on the small scale, and only works – for a while – on the large scale because of the broadcast use of Force and a culturally agreed upon minority who will be sacrificed when the results of horrendous economic policies come home to roost.

          1. Monasteries seem to get socialism to work. They are heirarchal regimes though.

            1. Men who make a relatively comfortable life for themselves by threatening like minded theists with purgatory and hellfire unless they tithe to them isn’t exactly a good example of socialism at work. It’s good old fashioned extortion.

              1. Now that I think about it, maybe it is a good example. Ha!

                What I meant to say is I would be very surprised if said monasteries were financially self sustaining through the singular works of its inhabitants.

                1. There are communes in central Virginia that have been there since the 60s. Some of them run successful businesses.

          2. “From each according to their ability to each according to their need” doesn’t work grammatically, either.

        2. “That has been claimed but only for very large societies/communities I bet. Voluntary socialism is viable IMHO in small communities / groups”

          Your opinion does not match reality.

          1. Agreed.

            I think the reason so many of those communes failed – and the reason that every communist/socialist country fails – is that nobody really wants to live under a collectivist arrangement. They like the idea of free shit, and they like the ego trip they get from acting like a savior of the downtrodden, but that’s about it. They don’t like the total lack of freedom and the blind obedience to the top men that a communist/socialist arrangement requires.

            Consider the fact that every communist/socialist country has huge, thriving black markets for ordinary consumer goods. It shows that even if people chant all the party slogans, they still want the bounty that only capitalism can provide.

      2. Chomsky has a sad.

    2. There is no such thing as ‘voluntary socialism’.

      There’s cooperation for mutual benefit – that’s it. Sometimes that involves the exchange of money, sometimes it involves the exchange of raw good, sometimes it involves the exchange of labor.

      But its not socialism.

      1. Socialism is *taking* from those who have, and *giving* to those who need. Voluntary does not enter into it. If it was voluntary we’d just call it ‘charity’.

  11. So evidently Venezuela is China’s next sex and slave labor colony. They say the people are lazier than North Koreans, but better looking. In a few weeks they’ll have Maduro showing off the latest ‘Venezuelan missile technology’ and the pundits will speculate as to whether it can be launched from offshore and how far the range.

  12. I hate to break this to people, but if they haven’t been paying attention – WE ARE ALREADY DEEPLY, FULLY, DYED IN THE WOOL SOCIALIST.


    With a $70,000,000,000,000 (at least) accrual basis debt, and an estimated $70,000,000,000,000 total wealth in private hands, it seems PRETTY FUCKING OBVIOUS TO ANYONE WITH HALF A BRAIN THAT’S ABOUT AS SOCIALIST AS YOU GET.

    involuntary Ponzi schemes like social security and medicare, voluntary ponzi schemes in Federal Bonds WAY BEYOND any conception of providing “liquidity” for “society”, endless debasement of the currency to take even more monetized labor, and the banishment of the existence of interest (market price for money) I’d say it’s pretty conclusive that we’re down DEEP in the socialist shithole. IT’S WHY THE “ORDER” OF THINGS ARE GETTING DISORDERED.

    1. cont

      All the millennials are are tactically doing is making sure the “old shits” don’t get all the booty, that the booty should go to them. It’s a fight over the pile of monetized (past and future) labor and that it goes to THEM instead of the wrinkly, ugly people. And the Gen-X, who are still playing the game between Federalized “savings plans” on the one side and being mortgaged on the other, are the ones who are going to get sucked dry the fastest if we don’t tell the millennials to fuck off and tell the Boomers to pay for their benefits within their own generation’s wealth.

      That is, break the Socialism we are already knuckling under once and for all, or be sucked dry out both ends of the timeline. In other words, SNAP OUT OF THE DELUSION THAT WE’RE NOT ALREADY SOCIALIST AND WE’RE THE GREASE THAT’S GOING TO MAKE THE GEARS TURN.

      1. Dude, you’re harshing my buzz.

        1. Just repeat: Libertarian Moment

          1. It really would be nice if Reason would have more than two articles a year on the TERRIBLE monetary, economic, and fiscal policies summarized in clear cut form. And when they do, they have illegible charts – all two of them.

            Granted, they need to come with their own content, and they want clicks and revenue, but to completely bury the BIGGEST issue currently face, but a magnitude of 10,000, almost leads one to the think that they are really here to sublimate anger and redirect people away from reality. It’s either that, or they are so scared shitless to see the millennials for the piggies to the trough that they are, and want to blinker themselves into believing that the millennials are just a reasoned argument away from hoisting the libertarian flag.


            As an aside, the first graph is for those folks last week who argued for Reagan between the “Reagan vs Obama” recoveries. Clearly shows the nearly identical leaps forward in debt saturation for the “recovery”.

            1. Reagan sucked. The triumph of rhetoric over action in his second term.

            2. Reagan dealt with a garden variety recession where no wealth evaporated like $15 trillion did in 2008-09.

            3. Reason are mostly the Beltway court jesters of libertarianism. More than anything else, they don’t want to go too far and piss off their drinking buddies and potential future employers.

    2. Your formula is severely flawed.

      That $70 trillion accrual basis national debt is offset by what you conveniently leave out – future taxes of the same amount.

      That leaves your $70 trillion net wealth untouched. (It is actually more)

      1. Wut?

        Are you seriously saying the current debt is irrelevant because it will be paid off in the future? Then why do people charge interest to loan money? Because there’s a fucking cost to lending it out and being owed.

        1. No. I am saying ‘toolkien’ is wrong. His thesis is that we are already socialist because all debt (present and future) is 100% of assets.

          But he is forgetting future income.

          Future income is not something to leave out of such an observation.

          The $19 trillion in debt is a serious issue though. One can acknowledge that without putting us on the road to serfdom.

          1. We owe it to ourselves. Trillion dollar coins. Etc etc.

          2. Hey buttplug, did that work with the bank? What do you mean I am too much in debt? What about all my future income?

    3. Did you bother reading the article? That isn’t what socialism is. High government spending isn’t good and it’s not the hallmark of a laissez faire capitalist state by any means, but it also isn’t the defining feature of socialism.

  13. As former Reason pollster Emily Ekins

    Ah ha! There’s where our polls went….

  14. I hope people try to get Venezuelans in this country. I don’t think bitcoin is going to help them anymore, lol. Maybe it will.

    I actually met a Columbian girl in an airplane who told me a lot about the stuff that goes down in Columbia and Venezuela. About how corrupt it is over there and needs to change.

    Then she told me she’s really into Nelson Mandela, and she’s studying really hard to be a lawyer in Australia… That kind of stuff amazes me. After discussing how corrupt govn’t can be, to trust a man who preaches more state control. It has to be that she is trying to fit in and exploit opportunities she sees can be used to her advantage.

    I’m way too much of a loud mouth, opinionated person to be in a position like a lawyer… or to appreciate any state welfare given to me.

    She was hot, though.

  15. Plot Twist:
    Sean Penn is there to bring it down from the inside.

    He did a good job of getting El Chapo.

  16. But Bernie is so bae!

  17. This author is arguing that millennial have a different language than their predecessors and that they are not really socialists. Then why are they backing Bernie Sanders? He is an “old style” socialist and admits to it.

    1. They seem to wish pain and anguish on other people. They aren’t too different to me.

    2. His argument seems to be that millennials have confused and incoherent politics but are crypto-libertarians since libertarians too dislike the status quo.

      1. ie delusional

    3. Sanders is at heart, but I don’t agree he openly admits to it. These days when asked he about his socialism, he talks about Scandinavia, and the government helping people with health care, etc. which is exactly the sort of misconceptions many millenials have about socialism, as referenced in the article.

  18. CCCP

    Combined Community Codec Pack?

    1. Cyrillic acronym for the USSR

      1. Uninterrupted Sustained Silent Reading

        Uninterrupted Sustained Silent Reading

      2. No, Winston, that would be CAFTU.

      3. They had one big club hit in the 80’s. Haven’t thought of them in years.

  19. Meh, I used to be concerned about the millenials, but hell, even I was a socialist for about two months during my early 20s. I mean, I was living off of student loans majoring in Political Science, and I liked punk rock, shaving my head, and goth chicks. I was basically showing up for the radicalism and shitty free beer.

    1. Hey now, free beer is never shitty.

      1. I got some natural bohemian for free once

        1. Is that some euphemism for she didn’t shave her bush?

  20. RE: Hey Kids, Don’t Be Suckers for Socialism!

    Only capitalist pigs who understand economics, human behavior and history would make such a statement.
    But don’t worry ladies and gentlemen, friends and neighbors, boys and girls.
    Amerika’s re-education camps of universities and colleges will get the sanitized version out the young and naive.
    Just look how many 18 – 29 year old suckers are rooting for Comrade Bernie.

  21. It turns out that millennials are commies as much as they speak a different language than us graybeards who remember 1989 as one of the most amazing years in human libertation

    At a certain point, though, it becomes a distinction without much of an important difference. If you go with the Bernie-style package of never-ending free shit, you wind up having to pay for it somehow. And that means you wind up having to control people’s behavior to get it. You want “free” college? Sure. Then you better be ready to go to a system where a lot fewer people go to college. You want “free” medical care? Okay. But that means somebody’s going to have to decide what care you get. The bottom line is that socialism can only keep itself afloat for a little while by controlling people’s behavior. Millennials just delude themselves that it will be somebody else’s behavior.

  22. There is an AMAZING article in the New York Times today:

    “Dying Infants and No Medicine: Inside Venezuela’s Failing Hospitals”

    “The rate of death among babies under a month old increased more than a hundredfold in public hospitals run by the Health Ministry . . . . The rate of death among new mothers in those hospitals increased by almost five times in the same period, according to the report.”

    The conditions of Venezuela’s hospitals sound like something out of a medieval city under siege. The article even has a picture of a patient lying in his feces and blood.

    It being the New York Times, I kept reading to see if they blamed socialism. The correct answer? Of course not!

    They blamed the falling market price of oil (those damn markets!), political infighting (anti-socialist obstructionists!), and corruption.

    1. Well of course its the fault of capitalists and capitalism.
      Socialism can do no wrong.
      Just ask Stalin, Castro or Pol Pot.

    2. “Mitchell New York 10 hours ago

      Who cares about issues like the destructive nature of socialism. This is horrifying human suffering and, if we have the capacity to help, we should. We should also devote diplomatic resources to getting other countries to step in before the human crisis becomes too devastating. This is beyond political issues.”

      Yes. Once socialism destroys these lives and does what it does best and instills misery, it’s now ‘beyond political issues’ to the sparkies at the NYT.

      Stab me with a toothpick in the ear drum now.

      1. “…This is beyond political issues….”

        No, it *IS* a political issue.
        When you continue to hit yourself with a hammer and whine that you need help to buy the pain meds, the best help you can get is the advice to quit hitting yourself with a hammer.

  23. “The ninth floor of the hospital is the maternity ward, where the seven babies had died the day before. A room at the end of the hall was filled with broken incubators.

    The glass on one was smashed. Red, yellow and blue wires dangled from another.

    “Don’t use ? nonfunctional,” said a sign dated last November.

    Dr. Amalia Rodr?guez stood in the hallway.

    “I had a patient just now who needed artificial respiration, and I had none available,” Dr. Rodr?guez said. “A baby. What can we do?”

    The day of the power blackout, Dr. Rodr?guez said, the hospital staff tried turning on the generator, but it did not work.

    Doctors tried everything they could to keep the babies breathing, pumping air by hand until the employees were so exhausted they could barely see straight, she said. How many babies died because of the blackout was impossible to say, given all of the other deficiencies at the hospital.”

    And Hugo Chavez’ successor said the most predictable thing evar!

    “I doubt that anywhere in the world, except in Cuba, there exists a better health system than this one,” Mr. Maduro said.”

    1. How can newborn babies dying because of rolling blackouts be the fault of the price of oil or political infighting?

      They’ve got some of the world’s largest oil reserves, and they can’t keep the power on at their hospitals!

      That’s about socialism.

      1. The really depressing part is the comments. People act like this was just some sort of natural disaster.

        I remember predicting just this sort of thing a few years ago. People like most of the commenters there laughed in my face and told me I was just buying into “right-wing rhetoric”.

        People never learn. Even when reality is staring them in the face.

  24. “Why do so many Millenials self-identify as socialists?”

    Don’t know. They’re paying attention to the benefits of living in a Scandanavian Welfare state?

    In other news… When are fucking labor unions going to stop working for their narrow self-interest?…..rnout.html

    1. Jesus Fucking Christ, never read the NYT comments

      “If the unions aren’t in sync with the rest of the party, let ’em go. There won’t be any jobs if there isn’t a planet to live on…..”

      1. NYT comments are awesome.


    2. “When are fucking labor unions going to stop working for their narrow self-interest?”

      ‘Bout the same time socialism actually works and infantile twits like you figure out there’s no free lunch.
      Grow up and act like a moral agent; you may fool someone into thinking you’re not an imbecile.

    3. Pretty much.

      Smart people figured out a long time ago, that you get a lot more skimming of the top of a capitalist system, then you get with the government socially owning the means of production, AKA “real” socialism.

      Today, socialism is just pure capitalism with some taxes and welfare thrown on top.

      That’s the primary difference between hell hole socialism and awesome socialism: awesome socialism has lots more capitalism. It’s pretty much socialism with the maximum amount of capitalism allowed.

      They had to destroy socialism, in order to save it.

      1. Warning:
        Long-winded bullshit about how REAL socialism hasn’t bee tried yet! By ignoramus who presumes a word salad substitutes for an argument:

        “Smart people figured out a long time ago, that you get a lot more skimming of the top of a capitalist system, then you get with the government socially owning the means of production, AKA “real” socialism.”

        You been busted, Brian. Your brand of stupidity has been trod upon for years. Go away.

        1. OK, Brian, I may have blown it here, but you sure seem to be defending the ‘untried’ version of socialism.

      2. The thing that gets to me the most is a lot more people would be able to freeload under a pure capitalist system, than a welfare state. The majority of people would be working less; things would already be paid for as a courtesy, because services would get cheaper. I suppose I sound like some Hitler nazi to these kids that aren’t too enthusiastic about affiliating themselves to any philosophy…

    4. They’re paying attention to the benefits of living in a Scandanavian Welfare state?

      Yeah, but like most Millennials, you’re skipping over that whole “pay for it” portion. For all intents and purposes, Millennials aren’t really taxed very much. Your Scandinavian Welfare State taxes the working and middle classes, not just “the rich” through the nose. That’s how they afford it. Try giving Millennials a little taste of Scandinavian tax rates and government control and see how their appetite for it plays out.

  25. “As Reynolds notes at USA Today, capitalism may not be perfect, …”

    Actually, true free-market capitalism is .

  26. “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need” is the mantra of slavers.

    Apparently, the theoretical ideal is working as hard as you can according to your ability, watching them take it all away, leaving you with only your bare needs in return. And that’s before the theory meets practical reality. It’s no wonder that hardcore, real “Socialism” socialism produces misery. It sounds like a set up, at the purely idealistic level, to create a society of slaves, but instead of a plantation owner, you get owned by “society.” Oh, how adorable.

    Whenever someone quotes that nonsense, I assume I’m listening to a complete idiot, or a person who has lots of needs and practically no abilities.

  27. Make 7500 bucks every month? Start doing online computer-based work through our website. I have been working from home for 4 years now and I love it. I don’t have a boss standing over my shoulder and I make my own hours. The tips below are very informative and anyone currently working from home or planning to in the future could use this website?


  28. SF Supervisor decides too many HIV victims have rentals:

    “S.F. supervisor looks to shield HIV survivors from rent spikes”
    “Next year, they could raise my rent to full market price, and I would lose my apartment of 25 years because I couldn’t afford it and have no way to fight an eviction,” said Johnson, who was able to get the rent increase reduced to 35 percent.”…..510000.php

    Perhaps you can’t afford to live in SF, twit. Now the next person with HIV is gonna look long and hard for a place to live.

  29. What does “libertarion” mean?

  30. my best friend’s mom makes $74 an hour on the computer . She has been without work for five months but last month her payment was $19746 just working on the computer for a few hours. find more information …

  31. And one of those applications is Showbox app. It is one of the best online streaming application for watching Movies and TV Shows. In the starting, this application has been released for only a few of the mobiles and allows users to watch shows online.

Please to post comments

Comments are closed.