P.J. O'Rourke Endorses Hillary Clinton

Calls her "the second worst thing that could happen to this country"

Atlantic Monthly Press

On this weekend's episode of the NPR game show Wait Wait…Don't Tell Me!, humorist P.J. O'Rourke—usually classified as either a conservative-leaning libertarian or a libertarian-leaning conservative—announced that he's voting for Hillary Clinton. Clinton, he declared, was "the second worst thing that could happen to this country. But she's way behind in second place, you know? She's wrong about absolutely everything. But she's wrong within normal parameters!"

Of Donald Trump, he warned: "They've got this button, you know? It's in a briefcase. He's gonna find it."

The segment is embedded below, with O'Rourke's comments starting at the 3:17 mark:

Bonus link: ReasonTV interviewed O'Rourke back in 2014. To watch that, go here.

Comments

[Acosmist]

Remember when Chris Buckley endorsed Obama back in 08? And then sort of disappeared?

Totally off topic.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Yes, just so much Tim Cavanaugh.

[Zeb]

What happened to him anyway? I always liked his style.

[RBS]

He's still out there.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I believe he writes for the Washington Examiner, but I haven't seen much written by him. I followed him a while at the daily caller.

[GILMORE?]

Who?

[lulztopian]

WFB's liberal son, I think. Wrote "Thank You for Smoking"

[Irish, Target-Bathroom Rapist]

If I recall, Chris didn't just endorse Obama, he sucked his cock in one of the worst, most slavish articles that I have ever read.

That's not quite the same as saying 'Hillary Clinton is terrible, but not as terrible as Trump.'

[Palin's Buttplug]

And he was spot on.

McPalin? No way.

[Suicidy]

I'll vote for Trump just to see you writhe in agony when he wins.

[JimBob7]

Did you ever pay up on your bet, or did you welsh like all lieberals do?

[Suicidy]

He's as likely to pay up as AmSoc is to pay back his mortgage.

[hpearce]

That is stupid when he could chose simply not to vote.

[Brochettaward]

Voting is like a civic duty and stuff, though...

When one of these assholes gets into power claiming they have a mandate because x number voted for them, it's all the evidence I need to justify not voting. I don't know what Trump would do in office, but the finger on the button nonsense is just more mythologizing of the presidency. The guy isn't that important. The leader of a free people shouldn't be considered important if you ask me. He should just be there like an ornament.

[buybuydandavis]

I don't know what Trump would do in office

But we do know what Hillary would do.

[Suicidy]

Hillary is pure evil. Trump is just an asshole.

[JFree]

That's the best thing about the way the Swiss fixed our constitution when they copied it for theirs. They put in a presidency by rotating committee instead and there is no single 'head of state'. The advantage of that was exemplified by a quote that the Swiss president made during WW2 when he was threatened with invasion by Germany. He said the President doesn't even have the authority to surrender anything beyond his department - and since no one knows who he is, no one will pay attention if he has to. Combined with a militia that just fades away and reappears, it makes Switzerland an almost impossible country to occupy and govern even if you conquer it.

[JimBob7]

being in the mountains didn't hurt. Mechanized units become expensive sitting ducks when all you have to do is roll BFRs downhill onto tanks and trucks.

[Wesley Mouch]

BFRs!!!! Thanks for that. Haven't heard it in 35 years. Another weapon in the arsenal of democracy!

[Irish, Target-Bathroom Rapist]

"The guy isn't that important. The leader of a free people shouldn't be considered important if you ask me. He should just be there like an ornament."

The fact that he shouldn't be important doesn't change the fact that his powers have expanded so much that he is wildly important. The Imperial Presidency is a thing.

[Suicidy]

He should just go GayJay.

[Hyperion]

So is this where we start building the libertarian case for Hillary?

[Zeb]

Ugh. No.

[Hyperion]

Keep in mind, when I said we, I didn't mean we the commentariat.

[RBS]

I can't wait for the "Who We Are Voting For" article this time...

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Don't for get the "and why" part. That's the second most important part.

[Zeb]

Maybe I'm optimitstic, but I predict: Johnson, nobody, Johnson, Johnson, nobody....

Those few who voted for Obama got burned pretty good.

[Hyperion]

Johnson, nobody, Johnson, nobody, Cytotoixic: Hillary, Johnson, nobody...

[Suicidy]

Don't vote Suicidy. Everyone has a bad feeling about that Suicidy.

[arbitrary wavefunction]

Something something war on drugs (recently)
Something something immigration reform
Something something gay marriage (recently)

[buybuydandavis]

That article has been coming like a freight train for months now.

Progressitarians prefer statist corruption over the Old Right, because Open Borders Uber Alles. Otherwise someone might call them racist.

[Chip Chipperson]

Yup, that pretty much sums it up.

Also the cocktail parties and legal pot.

[CatoTheChipper]

NO!

This is where we dismiss PJ as a libertarian, or even as an ally to libertarians.

This is fucking disgraceful.

[JWW]

Yep, he's kinda dead to me. Of course with Hillary as President, he won't be able to publish any new books anyway.

Also there's this tip: "but I voted for Hillary" won't keep you out of the reeducation camps.

[Krapulent Kristen]

Hopefully he was just being PJO and satirizing.

[Suicidy]

This destroys any credibility R.J. O'Puke had.

[neoteny]

"They've got this button, you know? It's in a briefcase. He's gonna find it."

President Trump is going to nuke the Kreml, because his companies are going to rebuild it, and the Broken Windows Fallacy isn't a fallacy between nation-states?

[Zeb]

I am definitely not voting for either of them, but I just don't see how Hillary is really less likely to start stupid and terrible wars than Trump. Trump is an obnoxious, unprincipled asshole, but I don't think he is insane or stupid enough to start nuking anyone.

[wareagle]

sad as it is, even someone who fancies himself a free thinker like PJ has to stay within establishment guidelines. He can't admit that an outsider could do politics as well, or cause no more harm, than a careerist because then the whole nation might see that there is nothing magical about elected office.

[UCrawford]

Whereas Hillary is incompetent enough to do so. You're talking about someone so stupid that she left a clear paper trail for every one of her scandals and never learned from her mistakes.

[swillfredo pareto]

You're talking about someone so stupid that she left a clear paper trail for every one of her scandals and never learned from her mistakes.

I think everything she does is on purpose, not a mistake. And she has certainly learned the relevant lesson: she can get away with anything.

[Suicidy]

I see a raving cunt bitch like Cankles as being far more likely to use nukes than Trump. He has decades of having enough self control to successfully run his businesses.

[JimBob7]

Which explains perfectly how a "billionaire" declares bankruptcy 4 times. Remember when the Koch Brothers, and George Soros declared bankruptcy? Yeah, me neither.

[Suicidy]

You don't understand business, do you? at that level, a bankruptcy is s reorganization plan and a renegotiation of terms with existing creditors. Not like a personal bankruptcy where you just walk away. But I can understand where a less educated person might be confused about that.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I disagree with everything after your last comma.

[Pat (PM)]

Ever since Goldwater nuked the little girl with the daisy in the Johnson ad, it's been suggested of every presidential candidate that they might very well just indiscriminately start launching nuclear weapons. It's yet to happen so far, but the rule of stopped clocks implies it must come true eventually, right?

[lulztopian]

Oh that's so clever, Frankie. Can you offer in some substance or are you just virtue signaling using Trump again?

[Heroic Mulatto]

You know what they say about virtue signaling.

[Swiss Servator]

It is worse than trying to use smoke signals??

[Suicidy]

I prefer bat signaling.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Sure.

The man is an ignorant, arrogant, megalomaniac. He shoots from the hip without having the information required to make an informed decision. IOW, he's a fucking child with a massive ego. Such a person stands an higher than average likelihood of putting us in and escalating situations that will back us into a corner.

If you think giving such a person access to the football, you are a fucking moron. PERIOD!

[Francisco d'Anconia]

*football is a good idea

[Robert]

Then let's play.

[lulztopian]

That's a lot of name calling and little else.

"Higher than average likelihood" = made up bullshit.

"Nuclear football" = argument from emotion (fear)

You're unimpressive.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

It's based upon everything I've seen of the man. He is clearly ignorant. The man who wants the football had no idea what the nuclear triad was.

He makes statements based upon limited knowledge and then needs to recant.

He attempts to run roughshod over anyone disagreeing with him, damn the consequences.

I wouldn't trust the man to watch my dogs, let alone make life and death decisions.

And, again...if you would...you are a moron...PERIOD!

[lulztopian]

Francisco, those are just conclusory statements and more name-calling. you're clearly a waste of time.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

And you are clearly an idiot.

The entire electoral process is nothing more than vetting the potential prospects to determine if they are qualified to be trusted with the enormous amount of power granted the chief executive. If after this three-ring circus, you think Donald Fucking Trump is worthy of that trust then you are as stupid as he is. Or you're 13. The man is simply unqualified for the position.

[lulztopian]

If after this three-ring circus, you think Donald Fucking Trump is worthy of that trust then you are as stupid as he is. Or you're 13. The man is simply unqualified for the position.

Oh well now you convinced me. Just keep repeating yourself with petty insults and certainly someone will laud you for your room temperature IQ.

The man is simply unqualified for the position.

If it's that obvious, then you should have been able to construct an argument by now. But all you have done is act like a toddler having a temper tantrum.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

An argument? Have you been watching? To make an argument I'd need to regurgitate everything the man ever said. Tell you what. I'll tell you the only thing the man has ever said that's been correct (it's much easier):

He was right when he said involvement in Iraq was a monumental error. He's been wrong on virtually every other position he holds.

He's an embarrassment and so is any moron who could talk themselves into casting a vote for him.

[lulztopian]

He's been wrong on virtually every other position he holds.

Virtually every other? Like the Second Amendment? Like repealing PPACA? Like cutting spending and having an adult approach to the debt and deficit? Like selling federal land?

you are saying absolutely nothing. but you can't reason with an infant, I see.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

And those positions are different than any other Republican? Rand? Jeb? Rubio? Fat ass? Cruz?

Hey, lulz...were you aware water is wet?

GO TEAM!

[lulztopian]

are you drunk? you're just spouting gibberish.

[lulztopian]

And those positions are different than any other Republican? Rand? Jeb? Rubio? Fat ass? Cruz?

I seriously have no idea what your point is. You said he was wrong about virtually every position he's taken. I listed a bunch where libertarians would at least be open to hearing and likely even agreeing with, and you respond with this?

[Calidissident]

Trump has an adult approach to debt and deficit? WTF are you talking about? His plan consists of massive tax cuts, not touching entitlements, increasing infrastructure spending, maintaining or increasing military spending, building a wall, and somehow offsetting all of that by making a few miniscule cuts, selling land, and "renegotiating" past debt (which would have a disastrous effect on the financial system). That is a recipe for a massive increase in the debt, even compared to the current baseline.

[Suicidy]

He's far better than Cankles (setting the bar low, I know). I hope you're capable of seeing that.

[Trumps Disappointing Poll]

"It's based upon everything I've seen of the man."

Using your stated criteria, i.e. everything ice seen of you, your opinion isn't worth much.

Trump is a clown. But, so, seemingly, are you.

[BigT]

Neither is even remotely likely to use nukes.

However, Hillary is certain to give us some SCOTUS nominees that will erode freedom continuously for a generation. Trump, who knows?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Great endorsement.

[Pat (PM)]

It really is so much worster this time! Like, seriously. Most important election in our lifetimes.

[Jerryskids]

I keep hearing this argument that people gotta support Trump because otherwise Hillary! Isn't that the same establishment GOP campaign they used last time? And the time before that? The same bullshit "hold your nose and vote for the Dem-lite guy" that Trump is railing about as proof of what a bunch of shitheads the GOP are?

And the Hillary SCOTUS appointment thing is just a subset of that - I'm as worried about Hillary appointing Dracula or whoever as I am about that last guy Obama appointed to the SC, which he didn't because Presidents don't get to appoint, they only nominate and the Senate has to sign off on the nominee. You seriously think Hillary has a chance in hell of getting anything past Congress? It'll be 4 more years of Obama and gridlock - as shitty as it is - is generally better than Washington doing anything else.

Trump, on the other hand, will be dealing with members of his own party, the Trumpalos. Every ratfucker GOP congress-critter out there is going to be jumping on the Trump train offering Trump a rimjob because they're ratfuckers and that's what ratfuckers do. Trump's policies may only be half as bad as Hillary's but he'll get 100 times more of them rammed through the $2 crack-whore GOP Congress he'll be dealing with. You do the math - an effective Trump is 50 times worse than an ineffective Hillary.

[Pat (PM)]

Until Garland, the senate has failed to reject a Democratic president's SCOTUS nominee once in my lifetime, even when Republicans controlled it. It's pollyannaish to think they're going to take a tough line with Hillary Clinton anymore than they did when they approved Ginsburg by 96-3. Not to mention that congress will flip in a couple of years during the normal course of American politics.

And that aside, since the vast majority of the regulatory state is in the hands of the executive, gridlock doesn't mean fuck all.

[Pat (PM)]

Which isn't an endorsement of any particular candidate, only to say that extolling the virtues of divided government and "muh gridlock" is, largely, a gigantic crock of shit.

[lulztopian]

I am with you, Pat. I mean, weren't we already supposed to **have** gridlock? And where has that gotten us for the past six years? Fuckin nowhere.

[Suicidy]

So you see him as something like Harry Saxon?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m0RvDZFN71A

[Zeb]

You disagree with what I say my own thoughts are?

[Notorious UGCC]

Well, that was painful.

Given his political orientation, he could at least have swallowed Johnson.*

But at least his free NPR tote bag is in the mail, not to mention the cocktail party invitations.

*What?

[buybuydandavis]

Can't swallow Trump or Hillary for president?
Swallow the Johnson!

[Jimbo BTR]

Start printing the Libertarian Party posters!

"Swallow the Johnson!"

"Johnson: Tastes better than you think!"

"Johnson stands up for you!"

and in Japan:

"We play for Jon-san's erection!"*

*MacArthur reference for those who don't know

[Jimbo BTR]

Onry srightry lacist

[Nativist, Racist & Xenophobe]

He works for the Weekly Standard, and I'm hardly surprised to see anyone who works there endorse Hillary. Hillary is a lot more likely to give the neocons the wars they want than Trump is.

[Greg Loves His Woodchipper]

I guess he chose to push back against Johnson instead...

[Zeb]

I'm not sure that's exactly what I'd call an endorsement. Still a little disappointing. What's wrong with Johnson (other than being boring and having no chance of winning)?

I actually live pretty close to him. If I see him on the street, I'll yell at him.

[Monty Crisco]

Tell him to get off your lawn!!!

[Alcibiades]

O'Rourke or Johnson?

[Zeb]

O'Rourke.

[C. Anacreon]

You must be in Peterborough, or perhaps Dublin, or Jaffrey?

Perhaps you know my in-laws.

[Zeb]

Could be. I'm in Dublin.

[josh]

if you're going to be that guy, i imagine anyone on your lawn would be worth yelling at.

[Eeyore]

Better start now. In the future, yelling at people on your lawn will be assault.

[Jesse Walker]

I'm not sure that's exactly what I'd call an endorsement.

In the full segment, he actually uses the phrase "I am endorsing Hillary."

[SIV]

It's not just Reason-editors who worry about their cocktail party invites

[Jesse Walker]

Psst. "Cocktail parties" is old hat. The preferred clich? is now "virtue signaling."

[RBS]

/Tears up Jesse's invitation.

[GILMORE?]

I'm not sure how bowing to the Lizard Queen is "virtue signaling".

When Nick goes on Maher and says everyone's equally shitty, *that's* virtue signalling. Its just saying you're above it all and to hell with the lot of them.

But actually picking the Worse of 2 bad options? Sorry. Its about the Cocktails, or else he's hoping to get a peach-job as middle-management in the Sugar Caves.

[buybuydandavis]

I'm not sure how bowing to the Lizard Queen is "virtue signaling".

Identity politics uber alles.

Screwing all the peasants, and white peasants in particular, isn't racist. Equality means we all get a bunk the the Gulag, but it isn't racist.

Meanwhile, if you don't want to be the welfare state to the world, and don't want to import millions of statist voters, you're a Racist! Racist! Racist!

[Jesse Walker]

I'm not sure how bowing to the Lizard Queen is "virtue signaling".

It isn't, of course. But about 70% of all references to "virtue signaling" actually amount to "YOU SAY YOU NO AGREE WITH ME, BUT ME OBVIOUSLY RIGHT. HIDDEN AGENDA!"

[Crusty Juggler]

"YOU SAY YOU NO AGREE WITH ME, BUT ME OBVIOUSLY RIGHT. HIDDEN AGENDA!"

Agreed.

[lulztopian]

no, Jesse, actually it has to do with the absolute fact that most Trump haters hate him for very poor reasons that are mostly lies or distortions, and then when you point this ou, they still sputter out some dribble about "fascism" to get their airhead friends to nod along.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

it has to do with the absolute fact that most Trump haters hate him for very poor reasons that are mostly lies or distortions,

What lies and distortions? Trump is fundamentally dishonest and has zero redeeming qualities from a libertarian perspective other than a vague non-interventionism that is more related to his xenophobia.

[lulztopian]

Except for his stance on interventionism, health care, taxes...

Name something you think Trump said and I guarantee you its out of context. And wanting to control the border is not "xenophobia". I'm an open borders guy but that's not even a remotely fair cop.

[HeteroPatriarch]

What part of "the government will take care of" healthcare is out of context?

[lulztopian]

What part of "the government will take care of" healthcare is out of context?

I have no idea because you didn't bother providing the context at all. you gave me six words.

[lulztopian]

Here, for your edification:

"But for the most part, it's going to be a private plan and people are going to be able to go out and negotiate great plans with lots of different competition with lots of competitors with great companies and they can have their doctors, they can have plans, they can have everything," he says.

* * *

In addition, although he told Pelley, "Everybody's got to be covered," the healthcare plan on his website calls for eliminating the Obamacare penalty for not purchasing insurance. "No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to," it says.

Trump has also expressed support for other ideas that go beyond the ACA, such as letting insurers market the same plans across state lines, letting taxpayers deduct health insurance premiums the way businesses do, expanding the use of Health Savings Accounts so any member of a family can tap into it without penalty and make them inheritable, and allowing the government to negotiate with pharmaceutical companies for lower drug prices, a change in federal law that, he says, would save about $300 billion a year.

[Calidissident]

Trump's not a non interventionist. His foreign policy is incoherent and unpredictable. Not much to be celebrated. And Trump's tax plan deserves no praise considering that he plans on increasing spending. The combination of those two things would produce massive deficits (even compared to current ones).

[Zeb]

And wanting to control the border is not "xenophobia".

Not in and of itself. But it certainly is motivated by xenophobia in many cases.

[lulztopian]

And it's simply not an honest assessment to say that Hillary is a "distant second" for worst. This is a woman who sells out her country for money, lies constantly, violated her security clearance, and jailed a YouTuber as a patsy, not to mention used an Embassy to illegally funnel weapons into the Middle East.

[Suicidy]

The moment Trump proposed the border wall, many libertarians became determined to be against him no matter what.

[mfckr]

This is true.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Psst. "Cocktail parties" is old hat. The preferred clich? is now "virtue signaling."

Here come dat boi!
O shit waddup!

[Warty]

Riggitity-riggity-riggity-REKT, son.

[Zeb]

Huh. I missed that. I actually listen to that show pretty often.

[Alcibiades]

Maybe he want his gig back at Rolling Stone.

[Nativist, Racist & Xenophobe]

No. Trust me on this one, he won't be the last member of the Weekly Standard staff to endorse Hillary over Trump. Think about the Weekly Standard's foreign policy positions and that won't be a surprise.

[SIV]

Give War A Chance

[buybuydandavis]

I can see Johnson from my house!

[Monty Crisco]

Love me some PJ. Just goes to show how far off the rails this thing is that he didn't say he would abstain from voting. ALL BETS ARE OFF, BOYS AND GIRLS!!!!

[Alcibiades]

Must be early onset dementia, no other possible explanation.

[Homple]

Not necessarily dementia, just an old guy trying to be cool again. Like if Lawrence Welk tried doing Led Zeppelin covers.

[Homple]

I didn't mean that Lawrence Welk actually tried doing Led Zeppelin covers.

[Notorious UGCC]

Would it sound something like this?

[Homple]

Needs more accordion.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

And bubbles.

[buybuydandavis]

He should be the opening band for Mark Steyn.

[Suicidy]

Or this?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rIHWuz7_cJ0

[Alcibiades]

I'm sure he could manage a passable version of Nobody's Fault but Mine.

[Nativist, Racist & Xenophobe]

More like an old guy trying to keep his job. I don't think anyone endorsing Trump would be working at the Weekly Standard for long.

[DenverJ]

Them why even write the column. Why just not endorse anybody?

[mfckr]

Endorsements can project an image of the endorser as having relevance and influence.

And for most people it typically entails no negative consequences.

Basically it's a form of free publicity and no compelling reason exists to not take it.

[Wizard4169]

Don't be silly, it could just be drug flashbacks.

[Notorious UGCC]

I picked a fine time to stop sniffing glue.

(note to prosecutors: This is a joke from a movie)

[GILMORE?]

Et tu, PJ?

[Jerryskids]

Don't go talking bad about PJ. He's not as crazy funny as he used to be but he's still got a few sharp arrows in the quiver there.

And I would suggest a little basic humility ought to make you stop and think for a minute. Just maybe PJ has given this a little thought and maybe he knows a thing or two. If PJ says he's endorsing Hillary because Trump is a far worse threat than Hillary, maybe you should consider giving him the benefit of the doubt, consider that maybe there are reasons to think that might be true rather than just jumping to the conclusion that PJ's suddenly become stupid or crazy or corrupt. Maybe.

Sure, I'm shocked PJ actually said he's endorsing Hillary rather than just saying Trump is worse than Hillary and letting it go at that and I find it difficult to believe you could actually make a case for an endorsement, but it's not crazy at all to me to think Trump is worse than Hillary. If he succeeds in re-branding and revitalizing the GOP as a successful center-left Old Democrat party, that's far worse for us libertarians than if he goes down in a ball of flaming dogshit and takes the GOP with him. For the immediate short-term a President Trump might be better than a President Clinton, but then you gotta figure everybody for the next few election cycles is going to be some kind of Trump knock-off, a populist demagogue spewing nonsense and promising free shit not unlike Bernie Samders, and then we're really screwed.

[lulztopian]

why should he get the benefit of the doubt? he's another media elite and DC denizen who likes Hillary. big deal.

[HeteroPatriarch]

As lulztopian proves, once you go Trump you give up stopping and thinking, humility and giving anyone the benefit of the doubt. Anyone who questions Trump must be attacked or slandered mercilessly. It's Obama-esque, but more pathetic because at least Obama had a veneer of intellectual achievement behind him instead of name recognition from reality TV.

[Trumps Disappointing Poll]

Trump is a clown, but people like you are worse.

[Suicidy]

He shouldn't get anything. He's wrong. Period. With Hillary comes a thousand years of darkness. She wants to continue the 'fundamental transformation' of this country into the antithesis of all things libertarian. Trump might fuck some things up, but doesn't come with her totalitarian ideology. Anyone who can't see that is soft in the fucking head.

I say this as someone who normally like PJ. But I'm right, and he's wrong. Someone in his circle needs to slap some fucking sense into him. Hillary becoming president isn't a cute idea.

[straffinrun]

I'm voting for the one who is directly responsible for the deaths of thousands over the one that hasn't.

[straffinrun]

*isn't.

[wareagle]

that's the thing, isn't it. It's not terribly hard to come up with reasons for not supporting Trump, but it's damn near impossible to list a single reason to vote FOR Hillary.

[GILMORE?]

it's damn near impossible to list a single reason to vote FOR Hillary.

Well, as Jesse noted.... "virtue signaling" AND "cocktails" seems to be at least one (or two) reasons.

I mean, if you want to re-assure all your media colleagues that you're not one of THEM, and continue to be considered "One of the Good Ones" who just maybe owns too many red-ties and occasionally says, "fracking isn't as bad as it sounds".... its not even *the worst* reason.

The worst reason would be closer to the argument which George Will made (and which the Capitalist Pig made earlier) = which is that we must demand a Hillary Presidency in order for the GOP to 'retain its credibility' as small-govt opposition. Else Donald reveal how utterly useless they all really are.

[wareagle]

how can the GOP "retain" credibility it no longer has? Pretending Donald is the problem is weapons-grade delusion.

[GILMORE?]

how can the GOP "retain" credibility it no longer has?

Which is why i said it was "the worst" argument. Its pretending that an 'out of power GOP' has any practical value to advocates of small(er)-govt.

[Jesse Walker]

Well, as Jesse noted.... "virtue signaling" AND "cocktails" seems to be at least one (or two) reasons.

Let me be clear. I do not think either of these are among P.J. O'Rourke's reasons. I was mocking the "cocktail parties" clich?, not endorsing it.

I think he genuinely believes that Clinton is the lesser evil, and for whatever reason he doesn't want to vote third party or just stay home.

[lulztopian]

well, I'm sorry but that's not a respectable position. He's engaging in the same voting fallacy everyone else does and which has been debunked by libertarians multiple times. And the vote doesn't care if you drag your feet to the booth or if you're skipping there: O'Rourke wants Clinton to be President. I don't care about his self-serving qualifiers and half-assed excuses, and neither does the ballot. A vote is a vote.

[GILMORE?]

I do not think either of these are among P.J. O'Rourke's reasons.

Neither do I. Which is even more depressing. If he was just in it for the Lulz, and the opportunity to re-hash many of his clinton jabs from the 1990s, I'd understand.

[SIV]

I think he genuinely believes that Clinton is the lesser evil, and for whatever reason he doesn't want to vote third party or just stay home.

Heat

[SIV]

Then again, maybe you're right:

"I thought there was a Republican establishment who was supposed to keep things like Trump or, for that matter, Cruz from happening, and then I realized, no, they're all dead. I'm the Republican establishment now. And it was a sad and burdensome thing to find out. And I wish I knew what to do."

[Emmerson Biggins]

SDL: Fuck him for endorsing Hillary.

But still, that is a pretty funny quote.

[Nativist, Racist & Xenophobe]

There is if you're a fan of wars in the middle east. Remember that PJ works for ultimate neocon rag.

[Homple]

Read his Give War a Chance for a good dose of AMERICA FUCK YEAH war whooping jingoism.

[Hank Phillips]

I'm voting against all nationalsocialists, fascists, woman-menacers, conservatives, Fabian socialists, communists, YAFers, econazis, Republicans, Democrats, klansmen, anarchists, slavers and fools. I'm voting libertarian, thus making my vote count ten times as much as is thrown down the toilet of a kleptocracy soft machine.

[Suicidy]

Fabian was a socialist? None of his songs ever indicated that.

[Notorious UGCC]

OT - could we stop using the term "purity test" to describe Gary Johnson's enmity toward freedom of association?

A "purity test" would be if Johnson suggested certain cuts in entitlements but critics said that's unacceptable because he needs to abolish *all* entitlements. In other words, if he chooses not to challenge the widely-accepted idea of having some kind of federal welfare state. Calling for complete abolition of all entitlement programs would be politically suicidal, and a "purity test" would mean insisting that he alienate the vast majority of the voters, and a longstanding consensus, rather than focus on achievable reforms.

But compulsory nazi cakes aren't part of a widespread consensus. The matter is still under discussion, and it's not as if by supporting the right not to bake for nazis Johnson would be alienating the vast majority of the voters. Likewise with gay cakes - the consensus isn't there yet.

If a key issue of liberty is *still under discussion,* with large numbers of moderate-minded voters on either side or uncommitted, that is precisely the time to take an uncompromising pro-freedom position, or else drop any pretense of being a principled libertarian.

[Notorious UGCC]

At a time when many conservatives are genuinely alienated from the Republican Party and considering third-party alternatives, the last thing the Libertarian Party should do would be nominate someone who says, "I believe in economic and social liberty! And I want to close down a bakery if it refuses to make cakes for gays!"

The LP may as well put up a big sign saying "fuck off conservatives, we don't want your dirty stinking votes."

[SIV]

#NeverJohnson!

McAfee 2016

[Ceci n'est pas un woodchipper]

Pragmatically I'm more concerned about Clinton because I own guns, believe taxation is theft, am not interested in a foreign policy even worse than the Nobel Peace Prize Winner-in-chief's, and believe she should be in prison. On a purely selfish level I don't care about people being forced to do business with people they dislike.*

Idealistically, however, a libertarian who believes that the state should force people to associate in any manner with other people for reasons short of mortal peril or medical necessity is not, I repeat, IS NOT, a libertarian. I can't even think of a reasonable libertarian (not ancap, just libertarian) justification for an exception. It's pretty sad that the allegedly best chance the LP has is a guy who is clearly angling for the PC vote--as if there's a single voter out there who's thinking, "I hate everything Hillary Clinton stands for, but she is pro-cake rights..."

That said, maybe this is not the best hill to die on if the ultimate goal is to move the majority of the country towards liberty. If he actually does cut the size and scope of government then you'd hope that there wouldn't be much in the way of resources for a federal cake policy enforcement agency.

* Trump's a New York liberal who epitomizes crony capitalism. I love that he's making the left lose their minds and the Republican establishment shit themselves, but to say that I'm skeptical as to the merits of a Trump presidency is to strain the bounds of understatement.

[Notorious UGCC]

How does he move the country toward liberty without getting votes, and where will he get the votes if he puts up a "CONSERVATIVES NOT WELCOME" sign?

Maybe he'll be able to pick up enough votes from the latte-sipping hipsters to make up for writing off the one constituency whose alienation from the Republicans makes them, for one brief moment at least, receptive to a libertarian?

[Pat (PM)]

...and where will he get the votes if he puts up a "CONSERVATIVES NOT WELCOME" sign?

The Democrats did that 15 years ago and still seem to be doing okay. Conservatives aren't necessary to win elections anymore. Problem for Gary is that bleeding heart libertarians are even less necessary.

[Notorious UGCC]

Yes, the Democrats pretty much sewed up the "socially liberal" vote, except for a small minority (much of which posts here) who think social liberalism actually means letting people make up their own minds.

But most social liberals believe in forcing their social liberalism on others with the government's heavy hand. The only time they'll split from the Democrats and vote third party is if someone says the Democrats aren't regulating or taxing stuff *enough.*

The LP isn't getting any of *those* votes.

[Notorious UGCC]

And it seems that without compromising their social-liberal principles, Democrats can still outvote the conservatives.

But if it's a matter of the LP getting more votes, then there's a pool of alienated conservatives right there who are royally pissed at the Republicans - they're ripe for the picking - genuine economic libertarians and social conservatives who are on the wrong end of government regulations.

If the LP won't try to get these voters *this* year, when do they plan on trying?

[DenverJ]

And what happens when the Libertarian party gets those voters? We don't have a parliamentary system, we have a two party system. If the not-Democrat vote is split, the Democrats win. That's actually how Bill Clinton won: Ross Perot split the not-Clinton vote.
I say this as a registered Libertarian. But if the Libertarian Party gets enough protest votes from Republicans, it means Hillary Clinton wins. And I think Trump is bad, but nobody is worse than Hillary. Not if Hitler and that Lady who bathed in virgins blood had a love child.
I understand that I am not being rational. By my dislike for Hillary Clinton makes me unable to think about this matter from any view other than "put that bitch in prison, not the White House".

[The Hyperbole]

Put as much faith in this as you want, polls being what they are, but most 'what-ifs' I've seen show the Libertarian taking close to equally from Trump and Clinton. Some even favor Trump after adding a third choice.

[DenverJ]

I think I remember arguments about about Perot saying the same thing. It may have been true about Perot, but I don't see too many modern Democrats fleeing to the LP, at least not in the numbers that the nevertrump people might represent.
I actually think Trump could wean a significant percentage (5%?) of the African American vote away from Hillary.

[Ceci n'est pas un woodchipper]

Late to the party, but just in case you come back to the thread:

Here's the thing. I don't think that conservatives for whom the cake thing is a deal-breaker are pro-liberty. I do think that pro-liberty people can agree that forcing people to do business with people isn't a pro-liberty stance, but I'd like to think that it's the kind of issue where pro-liberty voters would be willing to take 85% of what they want and just deal with the cake exception later.

Besides, I don't think the "values voters", the economically-liberal and socially-conservative Republicans, would find the rest of the LP ticket easy to swallow.

[Pat (PM)]

LP apologists say the same goddamn thing every time anybody criticizes one of their "reformed-Republican" candidates. "Sure, Bob Barr might not be the best libertarian, but we don't need to subject our candidates to a purity test!"

The only reason the issue has picked up any traction in the commentariat is because it's a proxy for the whole yokel/cosmo bullshit signaling. Next to nobody here even votes, let alone votes for the LP or gives a fuck about their candidate.

[Notorious UGCC]

All I know is that this is why I left the LP - I would have been willing to put up with some "liberaltarian" silliness if they hadn't gone so far out of their way to tell conservatives to fuck off - they even ditched ltheir own professed ibertarian principles when those principles would have meant being on the same side as conservatives. So I said heck with that stuff.

[Jerryskids]

I was a Republican for a short time even though I voted Libertarian - I voted for Jack Kemp in the 1988 primary - but I left when I saw how they jobbed Pat Robertson's people. Well, that and the whole nominating George Bush thing. Not that I liked Pat but his people did play by the rules and they worked hard at the grassroots level for what they earned and the GOP just changed the rules on them like they did later with Ron Paul. Being from Damnearalabama, Georgia, I've had the displeasure to have both Bob Barr and Newt Gingrich as my Congressman so I know a little about them - when the LP nominated Barr I stopped voting. I'll probably vote this year, though - every little bit will help the LP this time around, I think.*

*As I pointed out on another thread, I'm self-aware enough to know that, like most people, I can easily be persuaded to believe utter bullshit so what I think isn't necessarily what I believe. Or would that be what I believe isn't necesssarily what I think?

[lulztopian]

I'm just sick of Johnson's boring bullshit and that cake position is fucking retarded, full stop. He could have easily given a standard answer that said, "yeah the baker is a jerk but it's his right to be a jerk." He couldn't even manage something that simple.

[Hank Phillips]

Also sprach nazionalsozialistischen. These antichoice GOP infiltrators had their chance. Like the commie anarchists all they ever did war get in the way. The LP platform is better than anyone else's and we change laws through spoiler vote leverage, not by endorsing Mein Kampf christianofascists.

[Trouser-Pod (The blowhard)]

Oh, Buddha....

[Robert]

Is it possible he was just confused?

[RoninX]

I disagree with Johnson's cake position, but seriously, we're talking about fucking Hillary Clinton or fucking Donald Trump. I don't care about the Nazi cake.

[lap83]

Johnson has no chance, so he should at least be right about the important things. What's the point of compromising if you still lose everything?

[Azathoth!!]

This. This right here.

Third party losers whose only point in existing is to be a protest vote had better damned well hold and defend basic libertarian principles.

[Hank Phillips]

I agree Johnson needs coaching. But he may yet learn to tie his shoes and even understand that a right is a moral claim to freedom of action. The DemoGOP candidates won't. More important, their PARTIES will never know what a right is, and their candidates will violate rights until spoiler votes give them a solid incentive not to.

Furthermore, Darryl is a better candidate than Gary, and there may be others but they are hard to discover. I do not care a whit whether Trump or Hillary palms the Bauble. Either way, anti-choice prohibitionism loses. Libertarians made sure of that by not caving to girl-bullying fascist or eco-whining socialist looters. We have been repealing bad laws (winning) for 45 years, and THAT is why God's Own Prohibitionists have their adult Pampers in a snarl!

[buybuydandavis]

But she's wrong within normal parameters!

I wonder why PJ likes the "normal parameters". What part of "ever increasing government power and enabled corruption" sounds good to him?

[wareagle]

The part that lets him signal to the rest of the chattering class that he knows better than the boobs and retards not aligned with Herself.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I think "normal parameters" means not batshit crazy.

[Trumps Disappointing Poll]

So, Trump has you operating outside normal parameters.

[Brett L]

"Bill is fun at cocktail parties."

[buybuydandavis]

"Bill is not a racist. Bill is not a Nazi."

[BigT]

"But she's wrong within normal parameters!"

i.e., establishment

Fuck O'Rourke

[Hank Phillips]

PJ has always been a coward. That hasn't changed. Nor has his currish fawning in the laps of the Beltway soft machines. Only the lap has changed, largely because NY isn't inside the Beltway. These States have had 8 capitals before DC, and hopefully Congress will again convene in Philadelphia or Baltimore.

[Crusty Juggler]

The first three minutes have almost destroyed my will to live.

[Notorious UGCC]

Maybe some boobies will cheer you up?

[Notorious UGCC]

Nobody seems to be falling for my joke links any more.

OK, how about this one?

[buybuydandavis]

Bootylicious!

[Crusty Juggler]

Climate change joke! WOO!

[Crusty Juggler]

That was painful to listen to, and I assume, and hope, that PJ was just fucking around. Also, he should never go on that show again because it was awful.

[Robert]

I haven't listened in a long time, but he used to be on it frequently. & it's not as awful as Air America's "Wait, Wait, Don't Lie to Me".

[__Warren__]

CLINTON/ A CUP OF OLD-WOMAN MENSTRUAL BLOOD 2016!!!!!

[Notorious UGCC]

Put no trust in princes,
in children of Adam powerless to save.

Who breathing his last, returns to the earth;
that day all his planning comes to nothing.

(Note to Preet: It's Psalm 146:3-4 (NABRE), and it's strictly a prediction)

[The Grinch]

A libertarian leaning author is going to vote for Clinton to stick it to Trump? Why not actually do something (arguably) meaningful and vote for the Libertarian Party candidate? It doesn't make a whole lotta sense.

[buybuydandavis]

If you're on the StopTrumpTrain, you push your support to the person most likely to stop Trump.

Personally, I'm on the StopTheProgressiveTheocracyTrain, so I'm picking Trump.

[CatoTheChipper]

Hint: He's not really a libertarian.

He's a fucking fraud who has been scamming libertarians.

[Rufus The Monocled Derp Slayer]

Well, that's a disappointment.

[The Grinch]

Should've listened first. He was just screwing with them and being a smartass.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

"That's the joke"

[Crusty Juggler]

That was my take as well.

[straffinrun]

Listening to NPR so I can get to PJ's joke? That's like shitting your pants then saying, "Pull my finger."

[CatoTheChipper]

One doesn't joke about voting for Hillary.

[Swiss Servator]

Nor simply walk in to Mordor?

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Oh, ok, we didn't understand you before. NOW we get what you meant when you kept repeating 'limited government'.

[Warty]

How the fuck do Normals listen to fucking NPR? I couldn't even make it through that little clip. If you told me I had the choice between listening to that show every morning or getting AIDS, I'd be on the next flight to Ghana. Jesus Christ. Fuck NPR.

[Crusty Juggler]

They record it in front of a live audience. People go somewhere to watch that shit.

[GILMORE?]

If you told me I had the choice between listening to that show every morning or getting AIDS, I'd be on the next flight to Ghana.

-1 Justine Sacco

Also, that's so unfair to Ghana. Its the one that sort of has its shit together.

My favorite AIDS/Africa joke

[straffinrun]

Watched the World Cup in Korea at a bar in Seoul. America vs Ghana. Chinese gal next to us was rooting for Ghana and being obnoxious. I told her I was, too. Had her convinced that "I have Ghanarhea" was the proper way to cheer for that team. It was fun watching her scream that for an hour.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

That won't get you laid.

[Heroic Mulatto]

If you want to get HIV, Swaziland is where it's at!

[Notorious UGCC]

It's still not as bad as Swayze-land.

(Note to Patrick Swayze's lawyers - ha ha, you guys have no sense of humor!)

[Heroic Mulatto]

Pain don't hurt.

[Crusty Juggler]

I expect better from you.

[Heroic Mulatto]

This will soothe you.

[Crusty Juggler]

Excuse me while I have my own little moe.down with the jam band version.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Moe?

Now, I expected better.

[Crusty Juggler]

C'mon, live a little with some psychedelic country.

[Heroic Mulatto]

That whole thing seemed to me like what Carnivale's intro would have been if it were picked up for more seasons.

[Crusty Juggler]

That whole thing seemed to me like what Carnivale's intro would have been if it were picked up for more seasons.

That's funny. That is what I thought when I saw the video for Sturgill's version of Nirvana's In Bloom. The videos are obviously similar.

[GILMORE?]

the Remix

[Heroic Mulatto]

That is a thing of beauty.

[Mr Lizard]

I go for the Prog tears, especially after team blue tried to charge hill GC back in early 2013

[sarcasmic]

I catch that show from time to time when I'm taking the trash to the transfer station on Saturday mornings. Seems somehow appropriate.

[buybuydandavis]

Feminism is worse than cancer.
NPR is worse than AIDS.

[DEG]

If you told me I had the choice between listening to that show every morning or getting AIDS, I'd be on the next flight to Ghana.

Warty, I really needed that belly laugh.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

The whitest of the white people listen to "Wait wait, don't tell me".

[DenverJ]

Well, I used to listen to "Science Friday". Bought a cool book on Amazon while listening to the author. Book title is Flotsamonics, I think that's how its spelled. Find your own link, you have Google.

[DenverJ]

My mistake. Flotsametrics.

[Hank Phillips]

National Socialist Radio hosts Altruist Things Considered. Isn't that, like, good... by... by definition?

[Suicidy]

Well, at least you could finally get your ass plowed bareback by meaty black dudes without anxiety.

[pan fried wylie]

They've got this button, you know? It's in a briefcase. He's gonna find it.

Thankfully, his hands are too large to manipulate the latches, much less enter the launch codes. Have you ever seen the man try to use an onscreen keyboard?

[Agile Cyborg]

Reason thread kings'n queenz for prez! Just fucking percolate'em all into fucking imagination vapor and pour this concentrate into the thread bones of lightning gods and steeple it off into ivory spaceships and shit. Best USA big bang evah, motherfuckas.

[Crusty Juggler]

I completely disagree.

[Pat (PM)]

Everything AC has ever said I either enthusiastically agree with, or it confuses me so much that I agree with it just to avoid looking stupid.

[Soave the Last Dance for Me]

I would do anything in bed for AC. Like, I understand personality cults now.

[__Warren__]

He likes having his calves licked.

[Soave the Last Dance for Me]

That's going too far!!

[__Warren__]

He claims it makes the veal that much tastier.

[Notorious UGCC]

Time for a classical music break

Overture to Dardanus, by Rameau

...and a link which I knew existed even before I looked for it.

[Notorious UGCC]

Here's some Corelli

And some Purcell

[Notorious UGCC]

Crack open a Heinichen

[__Warren__]

They see me rollin' they hatin'!

[Heroic Mulatto]

Word.

[Soave the Last Dance for Me]

That quasi-twerk!

[__Warren__]

That made me amputee-hee.

[Agile Cyborg]

Freedom is skipping across tar lines on a Sunday morning rural byway
under the hazy dreams of jet liners and coasting blossoms
waving thoughts through the open air of endless sky oceans
tromping under lazy fucking whore fat fluffy white boys who've ate too many
goddamn burbling brooks and goddamn bluefish ponds in way too many fucking
Ohio fucking backyards. If you fucking don't think this is true then check your
goddamn motherfucking favorite eye in the sky, bitch.

[Notorious UGCC]

Byzaneint chant

[Notorious UGCC]

Byzantine

[Notorious UGCC]

More Byzantine chant

[Notorious UGCC]

Cherubic Hymn

[Agile Cyborg]

Gardens are life, man.
Life is garden. When your toes press into the breasts of the earth, boy.
She reacts and your biology plays the flute of seeds pouring from
the bags spilling from your brain pockets. Always be genuine and pure.

Pure is falling into the soul of your own heart.
Pure is listening the beat of your engine future.
Pure is laser pointing end game into now game.
Pure is smashing through brick walls with poems.

[Crusty Juggler]

Always be genuine and pure

Words to live by.

[Agile Cyborg]

Reason threads burst with giants and lovelies...

[Hank Phillips]

I'll have whatever AC and Gary are having.

[GILMORE?]

Honestly, i think anyone making endorsements for the general election at this early stage? is just talking smack hoping to get a little attention. 6 months from now, people's "it could be worse" attitudes re: Clinton may not be so easy to toss out.

(though i doubt #NeverTrump poseurs will ever drop their ostentatious 'more Republican-than-thou-ness'. Of all the things to get all superior about.... the Republican party has to be amongst the most pathetic)

[SIV]

I suspect all but the most last-ditch #NeverTrump die-hards will flip by the end of the GOP convention

[Dan Bongard]

They are "more conservative than thou", not "more Republican than thou".

It is pretty simple, really. They are conservatives. Trump is in no way a conservative. Therefore, they aren't voting for him, even though the ostensibly "conservative" party nominated him.

It is Trump's fanbase that are "more Republican than thou" -- demanding that actual political beliefs must take a back seat to tribal loyalty.

[Irish, Target-Bathroom Rapist]

^ This

[Trumps Disappointing Poll]

They're not conservative. Whatever this you're painting at there, that part was fucking dumb.

[GILMORE?]

It is pretty simple, really. They are conservatives. Trump is in no way a conservative. Therefore, they aren't voting for him,

Oh, bullshit.

What great violation of conservative principle has The Donald so far made a campaign platform which other GOP politicians (and presidents) haven't at one time or another actually enacted/endorsed?

Seriously = name the policy that is the specific "one toke over the line" POV for a so-called Real Conservative.

Because they're *not*. They would have fucking cheerlead some asshat like Jeb Bush into office... even if Jeb had exactly the same amorphous policy menu on offer.

They aren't objecting to Trump because of any policy or proper "Conservative Principle". They object to him because he exposes the entire GOP establishment to be a bunch of useless poseurs.

[GILMORE?]

It is Trump's fanbase that are "more Republican than thou" -

And B.S. to this too.

Polls show most of Trump's strongest support are from people who *used to be Democrats*. Trump's "base" aren't the bible-beaters and the Chamber of Commerce types who used to represent the "Core" of the GOP. They're an entirely different constituency altogether.

The reason people keep saying Trump's "destroyed" the republican party is because he's shown that some moron like him can beat the 'real GOP' with his agglomeration of people who were otherwise overlooked by both parties.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Yes, they're the poor working class Democrats aggressively abandoned years ago, and make ruthless fun of in any place they have a voice in popular culture-- while claiming to represent them.

[GILMORE?]

Some are.

There's a lot of conflation of Demographics and Psychographics in the depiction of Trump's base.

In aggregate, his voters do skew slightly 'poorer' and 'whiter'. But the fact is that if you took a cross section, the demographics aren't really all that significantly different from any other candidates voters. He beat Cruz among rich people, and he beat cruz with Hispanics. and on and on.

What's different is the actual 'opinion profile', or psychographics that describe how these people think and how they've acted in the past. Often this profile is being described as the "working class democrat"... but its not intended to characterize the actual 'demos' (income, ethnicity, age, etc)...so much as the attitude.

This story compiled a lot of profile-research that has been done so far on Trump-voters, and its enlightening.

I think the people who pointed out that the Democrats have become the party of the "over-educated" (liberal-arts urbanites) and the "under-educated" (minority poor) got something correct. There's a very large swath of people being left out in the cold, and they're not all "working class" or "democrats", necessarily, but they're people who haven't had anyone representing their point of view in a very long time. The fact that there is so little terminology to describe many 'normal people' is a good example.

[Harun]

What's ironic about this is they are essentially political refugees that are trying to find a home in the GOP, while making sure other political refugees are kept out of the US.

[lulztopian]

They are conservatives. Trump is in no way a conservative. Therefore, they aren't voting for him, even though the ostensibly "conservative" party nominated him.

Right, as opposed to conservative icons like McCain and Romney, right?

What a crock of shit.

[GILMORE?]

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly my point.

I mean, these same people politely golf-clapped (if they privately tut-tutted) candidates who were pro common-core, open to immigration reform, at best 'said nice things' about trade & business, demurred questions about abortion.... never really laying down any hardcore Conservative bedrock principles at all. No one cared as long as they shook the right hands and promised to do better.

When the conservative donors line up, all the GOP candidates would mouth conservative pieties and pretend that they'd been small-govt church goers their whole lives.

What they hate about Trump isn't that he's "not conservative" = its that he's not even pretending the way he's supposed to. Which just shows the conservative donors that no one needs them to win. Which makes all the other people who feed off those conservative donors VERY VERY uncomfortable.

Their collective charade has been shit on.

[lulztopian]

I agree. A great, great majority of Trump hate is about style, not substance.

[Hank Phillips]

Conservative means antiabortion prohibitionist. That lot has the Republican, Prohibition, Tea and Constitution parties to vote for. All of them want asset-forfeiture looterdom, hippies given the death sentence and bitches forced to squeeze out Hitlerjugend pups. FOUR zombie parties to choose from assures them their chance to vote.

[lap83]

"Of all the things to be superior about.. the republican party has to be the most pathetic"

Like getting superior about the LP, minus the cool hobbies

[Notorious UGCC]

More

[Notorious UGCC]

Ascension hymns in Arabic

[Notorious UGCC]

...and Greek

[Agile Cyborg]

Old alleys are lined with the shadows of gods
and the young walking by will catch the fringes
if they are adept and cautious
Old alleys are lined with shadows of gods
and the aging will flee its entrance
because dreams don't age but flesh does
Old alleys are lined with shadows of gods
and every fucking human born will cross
that pavement and look down and into
as god or goddess and most will walk into
death realizing otherwise

[LynchPin1477]

Just saw Captain America: Civil War and it was absolutely incredible. Seriously awesome.

[C. Anacreon]

My son and I saw it yesterday. I thought it was sort of meh. You can only have so many CGI battles for two hours before they become kind of repetitive.

It actually made me wish for more scenes with real actors acting in it, for some more plot development, especially since they had William Hurt and the British guy who's Watson and the Hobbit and Fargo in the movie, they could definitely have used them more.

Perhaps I'm just getting a little worn over by too many superhero movies. And I've really liked them up till now, don't get me wrong. Perhaps we just needed a little Thor in this one?

[straffinrun]

6 more months of "I'm voting X cuz Y is worse". This sux.

[Agile Cyborg]

Straffinrun/n the fucking political process. yay spray mother boss!

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

Just like the last election!

[Agile Cyborg]

your bottle with empty, love
but my bottle will not because
i am drinking from mine and yours so
don't feel bad if your shit empties super
fast because I am also fucking doing
lines on your wife's ass or is she your gf?..
well that's what she told me as she peeled her
pyramid off next to the fucking sphinx sitting
in my goddamn motherfucking waterbed with
Prince sitting between my legs and fuck I didn't
even fucking know I liked purple lightning
melting my goddamn cock ... Prince died sucking
my cock because Jesus is awesome and so is Prince
and Prince fucked evolution with his tongue while he
tied up the entire world with his fucking lines and this will
last into the cliffs of spirituals. Why Prince, Lord?

[Agile Cyborg]

thread ufo ride the coaches man
like the dark places invade the grey square man.
you fucking post in a gray parameter, boys. look at that line. and did and it whispered into steely vapors
lusting after the dreams of running and agitated odd people...
I let them run off into the other side which was very tall and very deep but very bouncy at the bottom and they all fell off and bounced forever as I bounded off into and entirely different vector
but as I raced away I could see their bodies bouncing like little black dots on the rising and setting suns
bounce bounce bounce
i am not sure what they ate
for all that time but I raced away into the ufo jungle and even as the space hotel I rented floated away I demanded
that my craft fly back and I lowered down tons of ladders for all the lost minds and fuck the goddamn cost I
sent down lasers into the blackness and saved all the bouncers and pulled them into my space hotel
and offered them sounds and lines because they were lost letters and we can't have our fucking speech fucking lost
when we get regenerative spaceships and therapies into future vectors bro. Saturn is the new beach, baby

[Agile Cyborg]

last drink of the fucking last record man
on the last fucking thread of the last fucking best fucking place in digital universe
Sun shines like empty clouds racing jetstreams
and old song stars trying to break out past the future after they become skeletons

[Nativist, Racist & Xenophobe]

This is actually pretty simple. PJ works for the Weekly Standard. Weekly Standard is a neocon rag, not a libertarian one. And I can guarantee that to a man, the neocons are going to be Ready For Hillary if the alternative is Trump. Trump doesn't favor going to wars where America has no dog in the fight. Guess who does?

[Heroic Mulatto]

Jared Kushner?

[Irish, Target-Bathroom Rapist]

"Trump doesn't favor going to wars where America has no dog in the fight"

The idea that Trump won't start wars that aren't in our interests is hilarious. He'll start bombing Russia the day after Putin makes fun of his hair.

[lulztopian]

I have no idea why otherwise intelligent people just make up random bullshit like this.

[Trumps Disappointing Poll]

Assumes intelligence not in evidence.

Irish spends a lot of time saying shit. Not much of it is worth a fuck.

[Agile Cyborg]

jagged earthy hearts
beat against the streams of storms
falling into the granite ledges of
winged homes and horned leapers
the cries of the clouds sweep against the
round perpetuity cycles within the
tombs of the revolving us
swimming, teaming, leaping, running,
demanding, turning, thinking, falling,
dying, living...

[Heroic Mulatto]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Trump erotica is a thing.

[Heroic Mulatto]

So is Bernie erotica.

[Heroic Mulatto]

So is iWatch erotica.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

*adding to cart*

[Quincy.]

Most honest author profile ever:

I'm a comedian and very bad author, of very awful things. You shouldn't read anything I write. 22 years old, and still disappointing my parents.

[Heroic Mulatto]

A Billionaire Dinosaur Forced Me Gay

The year is 2014 and dinosaurs have gained control of the world economy due to exceptionally accurate stock predictions. After graduating from NYU with a business degree, John is hired to be the assistant for one of the largest trading firms on Wall Street. His boss, the CEO of the company is highly regarded as the best businessman of the century. Only difference is that he is a dinosaur!

[GILMORE?]

Do you think that his other titles, like "Unicorn Forced Me Gay" or "A Yeti Forced Me Gay" were simply a matter of Find/Replacing the term "Dinosaur"?

Novel-writing in the Meme-age.

[Quincy.]

The year is 2014 and dinosaurs have gained control of the world economy due to exceptionally accurate stock predictions.

Seems legit.

[Agile Cyborg]

America unless emptied of spastic
volcanic elites will sadly wither as all
the other great experiments
but there exists no other escape
unless past the clouds which
is no escape for now

So can we make this place work?
Probably not. Authorities here think they can
contain rebellion. No. They can not.
Widespread rebellion outnumbers troops and police.
Elite establishment would collapse along with their
totalitarian strategies. It is easy to compute the collapse.

America would devolve. But this would create catastrophe for the
rest of the globe. End America. The earth dies along with Russia and China.

Humanity resets.

Don't fuck with the latest greatest experiment, globe. And this can all end if Hillary
gets elected. Sorry. No, Republicans are horrid hellacious fucks but a third term Democrat
will end it all. America will fail therein. And to repeat, Republicans are horrid hellacious fucks.

[This Machine]

You're a national treasure, AC. Don't ever change, man.

[Jerryskids]

In the greater scheme of things, homo sapiens is still just an experimental species. Maybe someday the dinosaurs will come back for another couple hundred million year rule and wonder what happened for that summer they were gone.

[DenverJ]

When AC is calling to elect the Republican, you know shit is really getting weird.
Hey, all, let's not let Trump vs Hillary make us forget how much we all agree on other stuff.

[Shit Pyrate]

What good can come of voting for your own warlord when everyone is voting with their middle finger ??

[Quincy.]

What good can come of voting for your own warlord

I thought everybody here was well enough armed to be their own warlord.

[GILMORE?]

OT Game of Thrones comment =

I haven't seen the newest bit... but re: the last episode (2?)

Are they really kidding, introducing new characters in the 6th season? There's another Greyjoy now?...

And given that they're ressurecting one other main character from the dead this season, I presume by the immutable law of all things Television, that Some Other Character Must Die to satisfy the Red God.

My money would be on the black one, if there was one. Maybe Fat Sam, or maybe Jamie Lannister, or Jorah's "Stone-AIDS" makes him suicide very dramatically.

On that last point - FFS, you'd think if this disease were like the scariest shit on the planet, that he'd have bothered to do something about it by this point, right? i seem to recall him catching that shit like 5 episodes ago.

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

Considering they unceremoniously killed all the Dornish royalty, and then daddy Bolton in that episode, it's not that bad, is it? Pretty sure the new Greyjoy is there for an important plot point at the end of the season.

[GILMORE?]

The dornish never mattered (at least in my mind); i never understood the point of the crippled guy anyway.

But the bolton Sr. guy was a thing. He was a good actor, that guy'

I keep expecting the whole thing to start to boil down to the 'few groups that matter' at some point. The way its going, there's so many side-plots that you only get a teeny bit of each and everything is reduced to a crawl. six-fucking years already. The 'little crippled boy' looks like he's ready to go to college by now.

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

Sheesh. If ever there was a time to come out and say, "I'm not voting," it is during this election.

[JeremyR]

The problem with that is Trump might win if you don't vote. Or vote for Johnson

[Agammamon]

usually classified as either a conservative-leaning libertarian or a libertarian-leaning conservative

*sigh*

If you're resorting to voting *against* a candidate then you've already lost - no matter who wins.

[JeremyR]

If one candidate is terrible and the other candidate is much, much worse, then you'd be better off voting for the terrible person.

Beyond that, if Trump gets elected, everything he does will tarnish conservatism (and probably libertarianism, anything right leaning). Just like GWB's policies are described by the left as a near state of anarchy, never mind that he grew government more than anyone in history than Obama. Nope, he was a right wing extremist, just because he has an R behind his name.

All the stupid stuff Trump would do, and there is a lengthy list, would get placed on small government types. Never mind none of it actually involved smaller government (something I don't think Trump has ever mentioned).

[DenverJ]

I don't know. Using the (admittedly small) influence of the LP to pick the lesser of two evils is not entirely Quixotic. Ok, it's entirely Quixotic. But damn,a man's gotta feel like he's doing something.

[JeremyR]

He's not wrong

[mfckr]

Trump supports the 2nd Amendment, and has a less interventionist foreign policy outlook than any of the major party candidates' have been in decades.

These two matters alone defeat any argument one could possibly make in support of a Hillary presidency, ever.

[Harun]

Trump shot himself in the foot by bringing up conspiracy theories too often.

This plants doubt as to his sanity. Sure, he claims he's "just asking questions" but it comes off as someone who might be unhinged.

[mfckr]

Oh, and you can probably desist with the pearl-clutching that Trump will somehow damage the meme of "Conservatism." Given that he hasn't heavily branded himself with that word. Which is good.

Even Hayek had sense to flee from the word decades ago, seeing it as a relative intellectual dead-end wherein one is stuck reacting to whatever goalposts that Progressives have moved this time.

[mfckr]

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[Chipwooder]

I love PJ. Always have, ever since my dad gave me Parliament of Whores for Christmas 1991 when I was a young, impressionable lad. He's wrong here, though. The proper response to electoral insanity is to stay the hell home. There is no possible way to justify voting for Hillary Clinton no matter who she is running against.

[Notorious UGCC]

What about Hitler?

[MSimon]

Who nominated him?

[BigT]

Hitler probably would not be able to do as much damage in our system as Hitlary. So, no, Adolph is better.

[toolkien]

It is obvious that the individual is subject - simultaneously - to hordes of zombies, werewolves, and vampires. They represent 99.9999% of the world. Picking one horde by calling them "within normal parameters" is either picking the one that you think you can handle best if attacked, or you're really one yourself anyway.

[Suell]

If you are not a politician then why in the hell would you ever endorse someone who you do not support?

If I could pass one single law related to elections it would be the Monty Brewster Act. All elections in the United States for Federal office would have a "None of the Above" option. If that choice wins the most votes then all candidates on that ballot for that office shall not be allowed to run in the second election that would be held a certain number of months later. This would be excellent to get for all state and local offices as well.

[MSimon]

The Largest Voting Block In The US doesn't vote.

If 10% came out for Trump?

Well the butt hurt this November will be a joy to behold.

[MSimon]

I'm voting for Trump because the general opinion at Reason is he will make things worse. If he doesn't make things worse I will be SOOOOOO disappointed.

[Ron]

why would he vote for someone so vile as Hillary take a stand and vote for Johnson or anyone but not Hillary

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[Uncle Jay]

RE: P.J. O'Rourke Endorses Hillary Clinton
Calls her "the second worst thing that could happen to this country."

Well, let's see now.
There's fascism with Grump the Trump or socialist slavery with Heil Hitlery.
A good time to invest in alcoholic beverages would be in the first week in November.

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[JimBob7]

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