Bernie Sanders Could Make Tonight's Debate Interesting By Taking on Hillary Clinton the Way His Supporters Do
The Democratic showdown in Brooklyn might be the last time Sanders can showcase what few libertarian ideals he holds.

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton (D-NY) will face off for what will likely be the final time on a debate stage in Brooklyn's Navy Yard at 9p ET tonight.
The two presidential hopefuls have largely dispensed with niceties of late, but if Sanders —who has very little realistic chance left of securing the nomination — wants to make his criticisms count, he should follow the lead of his supporters and take on Clinton more directly than he ever has before.
I spoke with some of Sanders' supporters this past Tuesday afternoon, at the official opening of the campaign's Queens headquarters in a co-working space in Long Island City.
A few dozen volunteers mingled before being schooled on the art of "the personal story" from seasoned campaign staff veterans, who also taught the newbies about the finer points of canvassing and phonebanking as the final hours before tonight's crucial Democratic debate a few miles away in Brooklyn ticked away.
The Sanders campaign is pouring resources into New York, which holds its primary (strictly limited to Democrats who registered by last October) next Tuesday. The latest Wall Street Journal/NBC News/Marist poll has Sanders leading big among young people and independents, but still trailing Hillary Clinton by 14 points state-wide. Moreover, Clinton bests Sanders in densely-populated New York City and its surrounding suburbs.
As is typical of Bernie-related gatherings, supporters were filled with awe of the Vermont senator's "authenticity" and a passion for opposing "money in politics." For the most part, they said they would support Clinton if she were the nominee, though many felt the former secretary of state was a force of the "status quo" rather than "the revolution" promised by her democratic socialist opponent.
The special guest celebrity speaker, Ed Droste of the indie rock band Grizzly Bear,
spoke about his background as a standard-issue Democrat but that he "didn't realize how much corruption there was in both parties" until he came across Bernie Sanders' message. He added, "There is one thing that will not change if we don't elect Bernie and that is money corrupting the government."
When I asked Matt, a man in his late 20s, why he decided to offer up his time for this political campaign, he answered "urgency." He said he believed Clinton's supposed liberal turn this primary season is "only a matter of convenience for her" because of the pressure placed on her by Sanders' surprisingly resilient insurgency.
Last night, 27,000 people flocked to Manhattan's Washington Square Park to hear celebrities like Spike Lee, Tim Robbins, and Rosario Dawson hawk Sanders' political wares, before the candidate himself gave his typical stump speech centered around "billionaires buying elections," "free public college for all," and "rethinking the war on drugs" by ending the militarization of police and removing removing marijuana from the list of federally controlled substances.
There's no question that Sanders has been able to roust a level of enthusiasm among the progressive left unseen even during Barack Obama's rise to the presidency. But unlike Obama, who stunned Clinton with a series of early primary and caucus victories, Sanders has always been nipping at Clinton's heels, essentially running a more competitive than expected protest campaign rather than a ready-for-prime-time bid.
Though Sanders promised a "positive" campaign and has largely refrained from stinging attacks on his only rival for the nomination, the Democratic race has turned particularly nasty of late, with Sanders recently questioning whether Clinton is "qualified" to be president based on her regrettable vote in favor of the Iraq War and ties to "Wall Street."
In a demonstration of how even the hint of intra-party criticism has shaken the Clinton campaign, its chief strategist Joel Berenson had threatened to pull out of the next debate unless the Sanders campaign adjusted its "tone" (naturally leading to the Twitter backlash hashtag #tonedownforwhat). Berenson also slammed the Brooklyn-born senator for "campaigning like a Brooklynie," an odd insult coming from a senior staffer of a campaign that based its national headquarters in the old money enclave of Brooklyn Heights.
Sanders himself is coming off a tough week caused largely by unforced errors, highlighted by what's been nearly-universally described as a disastrous interview with the New York Daily News, where he had trouble answering basic questions about policies he's been hawking for the past year and a half. The Daily News followed up by officially endorsing Clinton, whom they described as a "superprepared warrior realist."
Sanders' supporters are motivated by the passion of protest and when they talk about Hillary Clinton, they're not nearly as skittish as Sanders is to be direct about what they see as her failings. If the ideas made relevant by his now fading campaign — which has thrived thus far on its oft-stated "authenticity" — are to have any lasting impact, Sanders would do well to follow his supporters lead and treat Clinton the way they do, with jaundiced skepticism.
Take Matt from Tuesday's gathering in Queens, who told me he believes Clinton will abandon many of the principles she's currently espousing, like criminal justice reform, which he says is just a smokescreen to cover her past acceptance of campaign contributions from the private prison industry. He added, "it's only when people start paying attention to where the money is coming from that she's suddenly against it."
The opportunities to underscore the few issues where Sanders truly stands apart from Clinton are ready and waiting to be scrutinized.
Like the fact that neither Hillary nor Bill Clinton can give a coherent assessment on the part they played in politically exploiting the national freakout over crime in the 1990s, which has contributed to both mass incarceration and an epidemic of overcriminalization mostly affecting low-income and minority communities. At last count, they were for 1994 crime bill, then regretted it, and now they just get pissy anytime someone brings it up in their presence.
Or perhaps Sanders could stop flailing around in a panic whenever a foreign policy question comes up on the debate stage, and show up with a prepared argument at least as polished as his "free college and a pony" crowdpleasers. He could lay out to the voters once and for all why a world with a less trigger-happy President Sanders would be a safer one than the one where a "superprepared warrior realist" with a track record of helping to create terrorist-haven failed states is in the White House.
Finally, though he's sworn he doesn't care about her "damn emails," Sanders continues to allow Clinton's predilection for behaving as though she is both above the law and beyond the reach of transparency to get a pass, out of fear that he would somehow be a pawn in a Benghazi-like Republican smear obsession.
Despite his current winning streak, a trouncing in the Empire State could spell the denouement of Bernie-mentum. And while Bernie would never be mistaken for a libertarian, he's the last candidate standing in either major party who is consistently anti-interventionist, as well as in favor of drug reform and criminal justice reform.
These crucially important platforms, all relevant to both progressives and libertarians, will be relegated to little-seen third party debates once Sanders packs it in. That alone is reason enough to hope Sanders debates like a Brooklynite tonight.
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Libertarian ideas? Like, all the extra taxes?
+only 1 type of deodorant
The article does specify which libertarian ideas they are: anti-interventionism, drug law reform and criminal justice reform. And also says that no one would mistake him for a libertarian.
Pshh. Who reads the articles?
We can't look at candidates on a policy by policy basis! That's the exact same thing as an endorsement!!1!
Trump beats him on 2 out of 3 of those "libertarian issues" and Trump, unlike Sanders and Clinton, didn't vote for the Cage All Scary Negroes Act of 1994.
But Trump is not appearing in the Democratic debate. Which is what this article was about.
The article makes all the usual Reason errors in assessing candidates. Politics isn't about ideas in some vacuum. It is about interests - and all the interests of different people are, most probably, valid. Put ideas first and all you do is end up demonizing the people who disagree with those ideas on their face. Put interests first - and you have an opportunity to see a)whether there is a libertarian approach to achieving those interests which then b)can be an opportunity to sell meaningful libertarian ideas and/or c)lead to the realization that an objection to those ideas may actually be rational.
Re Sanders - until Reason actually begins speaking to those interests of Sanders supporters, then they are just useless/worse for the 'libertarian moment' they purport to believe is here. Same goes with supporters of Trump. Reason is part of the problem when all they can do is resort to 'moochers just want to mooch' or 'bigots just want to hate'.
Spot on, but you're being WAY to serious for this forum...
I learned my lesson months ago... 🙂
or 🙁 , as it were.
Thanks for your comment, though!
You're free to pay even more if you like.
Sanders supporters may be even more culty than Obama supporters.
Turns out you can head a cult of personality without actually having a personality of your own! America is truly the land of opportunity.
I know. If this guy can do it, I should give it a try.
IN MY DAY WE DIDN'T HAVE SHOES AND THERE WAS A MIDDLE CLASS AND FAT CATS AND WE NEED A MIDDLE CLASS AND ESTABLISHMENT
*thunderous applause*
*wins presidential election*
FAT CATZ IS WHY WE NEEDZ SODA TACKS
Silly CW, cats don't even LIKE soda.
Everyone knows you should feed stray kittens milk soda and tuna bread.
Wait, I thought you were supposed to feed stray cats to ATMs.
Wait....I thought they were supposed to eat milk steak.
Mine do. Over hard, with a side of the finest jellybeans.
If this guy can do it, I should give it a try.
I said "no personality," not "a terrifying horrorshow of a personality."
Like you don't already have a cult.
ALL HAIL THE GREAT AND POWERFUL WARTY HUGEMAN!
I think his thralls are the traditional kind. With no choice in the matter.
And no tone left in their sphincters.
In my day we didn't have shoes, we would have to walk up hill in the snow to school, our feet would freeze and we would get gangrene and they would have to cut off our toes so we would have to crawl back home after and our knees would get all bloody and infected and puss would come out of them, that's the way it was AND WE LIKED IT!!!!!!!!!!
He made the angry-old-white-man stereotype cool, man.
He reminds me of the principal from Beavis and Butthead
The Venn diagram between Obama's white supporters and Sanders supporters is just about one circle.
Some of my black Facebook friends are into him/against Hillary, so it's not just crackas.
I don't think he's popular with black folks in general, I should specify, just those already susceptible to leftist ideas. Killer Mike was promoting Sanders hard to the black community and I doubt any of that gained much traction.
But he hardly has all of the white Democrats on his side.
I'm always confused by that sort of thing. Killer mike should be a small l libertarian. He's pretty against Regan, which makes sense. But no one like that ever thinks about government as against them. They just want the in class.
Mos Def is the same.
Dead Prez too. Very anti gov, then want socialism.
At least we have Big Boi.
It is really odd how common that is. People rail against government and say they want freedom and then support socialists and fascists.
If i'm remembering correctly, we also have both Ices - Cube AND T.
I think so. It's interesting. They're very close to reaching the "right" answer. I listen to a lot of songs from all of them, and so many of them have genuine libertarian themes.
I suppose movies have the same problem. I see what I want out of it.
Then who is supporting Hillary? It's not just black people and I doubt many of them are not Obama supporters.
Aging boomer women, mostly.
DD was saying that all white Obama supporters supprt Bernie.
I should just stop responding to the raging idiot.
Age faster ladies.
Y'know, when I saw "Queens for [Bernie face]," I thought it meant something entirely different...
Yeah, my first thought was "looks like Bernie's got the LBGTQ vote."
Citizen X, you are othering a lot of people. You left of the I, A, another T, P, another A, and another Q
And that doesn't even include the sexual orientations and gender identities that are being made up as we speak
"Yo, ya think that's funny? We amuse you? Well, up yours, pal, we'll call our borough whatever we want! If ya don't like Queen Catherine, ya gotta go through me."
My first thought was that they could have come up with a banner that was a little more....festive than that.
needz moar fabulous!
Bernie Sanders, libertarian.
You slay me.
They're nothing if not optimistic.
That's not exactly what the article is saying. Just that it's the only way anything vaguely libertarian will be brought up in Democratic debates.
*Snaps fingers* Damn, I can't do that as fast as it will take for Bernie supporters to switch to Hillary supporters in the general.
Oh no you di--int.
"showcase what few libertarian ideals he holds."
Be sure to bring your electron microscope.
No concern from prison guard unions huh?
last time Sanders can showcase what few libertarian ideals he holds...
That should take what, 10 seconds of the debate?
1-2, max.
I've always run with the maxim that there is no political freedom without economic freedom. I'm glad that Bernie is making noise about drug and criminal sentencing reform, but that only goes so far. I'm also glad that Bernie is making a contest out of this, because the D party deserves to be torn asunder this election cycle as well.
Also, kudos on the first alt text.
Don't worry, once Justice drops the hammer on Hillary, Uncle Joe will ride into the DNC to save the day.
I... I'm coming to accept that isn't the worst that could happen. You blew it all to Hell! You bastards!
Economic freedom is personal freedom.
Can't have the second without the first.
I could have used a few more words there. Economic freedom is an essential and inseparable part of personal freedom. If you can't do what you will with your time and property and money, you aren't free.
You're good, I was just throwing my 2 pennies in there.
That sentence was what got me into libertarian thought.
FEEL THE SYPHILIS
er, wait, I got this...
Sanders is the most dangerous candidate there is. A socialist seeking power to help you is very concerning.
What about the part where he doesn't have a shot in hell of getting elected?
Yeah, his policies may be the most potentially harmful, but he's not a very acute danger at this point.
Not to pick nits but this is exactly what was being said about Trump six months ago.
Before any primaries happened.
But you never know, I guess. And I suppose this is a year to question the common wisdom.
Shit... "common wisdom"? You find some and we'll be glad to question it...
Step-daughter calls every week or so to ask me who do I think will win the election.
My standard answer: Ask me again in late November.
I might agree with him if he thought the "money corrupting the government" were *tax revenues*
There is one thing that will not change if we don't elect Bernie and that is money corrupting the government.
And obviously, the solution to corruption is to give said corrupt government MOAR power.
Hasn't recent empirical evidence shown that large campaign expenditures do not correlate with winning candidates?
as has been noted = Beliefs which were not created by facts are not dispelled by facts
Sorry... stealing that as a corollary to one of my Laws...
Thanks!
What are you talking about? /President JEB! and House Majority Leader Eric Cantor
"If A, then B" does not logically imply "If Not A, then Not B".
Or, they told me if I voted for Ron Paul I'd get some crazy lying dickhead retard in the Oval Office and, guess what?, they were right.
Yeah Ed. Make government bigger. It's sure to be less corrupt.
Come on, Aresen. Bernie is going to make the New American Man, who is not at all attracted to the lure of money.
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Who's Alie? Paul Atreides' sister? I think she probably knows about the cash already.
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None of the band members are even remotely bearish. jesse.in.mb hardest hit.
Droste used to be married to a dude, however.
Kylie . although Martin `s stori is inconceivable... on tuesday I bought themselves a Jaguar E-type after bringing in $8921 this last 4 weeks and over ten k this past month . it's certainly my favourite-job Ive ever had . I began this 10-months ago and right away began to earn minimum $71... per-hour .r...I'm Loving it!!!!
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It's not fair!!!
RACEISM!!!!!
Funny how the primary voters are limited to Democrats but not the candidates.
"Bernie Sanders Could Make Tonight's Debate Interesting By Taking on Hillary Clinton the Way His Supporters Do"
Sorta like pointing out that she should be under indictment?
Do you think Sanders has the balls? When he finally concedes defeat, he'll have little to lose, and yet I doubt he'll do it. Deep down, I believe he's a TEAM player.
Bingo. Despite all of the rhetoric about the nasty campaign they look like they both have gloves on and are throwing faux punches to me. Bernie thinks bread lines are good and govt crackdowns on the press are just great while Hillary should be going to prison yet I don't see either one bringing that up.
Why doesnt the Bernie campaign have photos of Ambassador Stevens lying bloody, dead in the street with his pants around his ankles with the caption 'Smart power at its best!' ?
"I promise I won't rattle your worst skeletons if you promise you won't rattle mine" seems to be the MO here.
The Democrat strategy seems to be, "look how great our side is compared to those fractured crazies called Republicans." A lot of the public hates divided government and the fact that it makes it harder to "get things done." By appearing united, Democrats boost their competency and cooperative image with these people.
^This.
I hope Trump or Cruz creates a campaign with exactly that image - and the text of her unsecured emails on Chris Stevens' exact location.
For instance: An April 24, 2011 email has the exact time of a Stevens meeting: "Stevens will be meeting with MFA in one hour and will make a written request for better security at the hotel and for better security-related coordination. He still feels comfortable in the hotel. They are looking into the idea of moving into a villa, but that is some way off."
http://dennismichaellynch.com/.....-location/
Well, sure, that Guccifer guy got her emails, but otherwise they were 100% secure. You probably just hate women or something.
I thought Guccifer got Blumenthal's emails. Was it confirmed that he got hers as well?
If I remember correctly, she sent Stevens' plans from her unsecured email to Blumenthal's.
As is typical of Bernie-related gatherings, supporters were filled with awe of the Vermont senator's "authenticity" and a passion for opposing "money in politics."
Government spending programs, priorities, and processes, are pure politics. When you advocate for more government spending, you are advocating for MORE money in politics, not less.
HEY BERNIE: DID YOU KNOW...JOHN KASICH'S STATE SPONSORED THEFT IS BIGGER THAN GOLDMAN SACHS? https://www.linkedin.com/in/jerry-blake-b0bb3a13
Use link or Google: "Jerry Blake" for Linkedin page of this Ohio Real Estate Broker who was previously licensed in securities with the real dirt on how John Kasich, the State of Ohio & Bank of New York Mellon have sold out their Investors, as well as Homeowners for trillions by getting State Officials to Violate the Public Trust. Judges hiding conflicts of interest of their pensions managed by BNY deprived Citizens of Due Process & allowed "Spoliated Documents" in illegal judgments to prevent tracking of loans that were scalped to multiple investor groups.
Investors essentially purchased tickets to the same seat with a manipulated judiciary preventing access to the stadium. In what is perhaps the most illegal foreclosure in America exposed here there were 58 blacked-out redactions in summary judgment, primarily in the Mortgage, Note & Adjustable Rate Rider. Jury Trial had been usurped and multiple RICO Crimes ignored. Recently Court records were altered with pages dated a week after recording added & this Defendant was threatened with sanctions (Jail) by Visiting Judge for my simply demanding an investigation. All of this was done to prevent exposure of a Statewide Conspiracy to Defraud Investors & Homeowners. The evidence is undeniable, yet Ohio keeps breaking more laws & violating even more civil rights.
Believe it or not?the Attorney General on February 8th 2016 claimed in writing that Ohio has no Jurisdiction to investigate felonies by state employees. Insanely enough the State's highest attorney Mike DeWine suggested I take it to The FBI & U.S. Department of Justice. If you have connections with The FBI help me take Mike's advice. You can't make this stuff up!
BERNIE SHOULD EXPOSE THIS & STOP KASICH FROM ROBBING CITIZENS.
AND DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON TEH JOOS!!!
Needs more all caps.
I'm not sure the above is a good idea.
That's not to say I'm sure it's a bad idea. I'm just not sure.
Getting into a shit-flinging contest with Hillary Clinton doesn't seem that wise to me. Clinton is quite good at shit-flinging, and providing her with an excuse to fling harder might be a bad idea. Plus, because of the bias in the media, getting into a shit-flinging contest will be spun one way, even if Clinton is the one who starts it, it will be portrayed as if everything Clinton flings at Sanders is totally legitimate criticism that calls into question his qualifications, and everything Sanders slings is clearly derogatory, mean, unprofessional attacks that call into question Sanders' qualifications.
plus sexist
I dunno. Since we are royally fooked whoever wins it might as well be entertaining. The more poop throwing the better, I say.
a) The problem is government corrupting money.
b) How is not corruption that Bernie is nakedly offering to bribe voters with tax payer money?
A) I'd also say that more tax money makes government more corrupt.
B). Maybe if you bribe some voters and threaten to steal from others it balances out and doesn't count as corruption.
And revenues have never been higher!
Good enough for government work.
Yeah, I think he should definitely call her a whore at some point in the debate.
That's exactly what the article says.
Tony doesn't read articles, or anything.
I know, and I should've left it alone. I just wanted to be sarcastic, and no one at work gets it as well.
The quality of Tony's comments has really gone downhill lately.
He has been implying she's a whore this whole time, might as well use the word like his supporters do.
Do it again, whore!
I think he should call her a cunt myself. And then she should murder him with her bare hands.
Then Dana Bash should warg into Wolf Blitzer in order to subdue her.
I'd watch that.
Oh, hell, Tony said something i agree with. Time to go home and drink!
Woohoo! Drinking!
"she should murder him with her bare hands."
Still won't be indicted.
Bernie's "libertarian ideals"...?
As a guess, I'd say that between Trump and Sanders, Trump probably has more "libertarian ideals" than Sanders and not any less. Yet one is treated like Satan incarnate and the other is treated as simpatico with libertarians in a way that is simply not borne out in any way by his long record sucking at the public teat. Since both suck and since Sanders has no chance of becoming President, it would be nice if Reason's articles would treat both as they deserve to be treated given their ideological commitments.
I would have to agree with you here. The Reason articles about the Hugo Chavez of Vermont are either mostly favorable with a few qualifiers about his socialism being icky or mostly critical with glowing reviews of those few policy positions of his that amount to diamonds in a turd.
Trump gets scathing articles, which is great, but his finer points are ignored entirely and from writers like Nick Gillespie we get mostly juvenile jabs, which I think is Nick doing a bad H.L. Mencken impersonation.
Trump has finer points? You talking about his fingers?
"Ideals" isn't the word I'd have used. Even in the few areas where his positions are palatable to libertarians, the motivation is not terribly libertarian. And the specific issues, while they are things that most libertarians care about, are not really specifically and particularly libertarian.
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." -Emma Goldman.1869 ? 1940.
Elections are "an advance auction of stolen goods." H.L. Mencken
Bottom line: It really makes no difference which clown gets elected, the deep state will carry on exactly as before.
In other words:" New boss same as the old boss" as Pete Townsend once said
Or, "Dream On"?:
"......In your dream, Donald Trump is not a fraud,
In your dream, Sanders is not a fraud,
In your dream, all the rest are not frauds,
In your dream, Obama is not a fraud,
In your dream, Reagan was not a fraud,
In your dream, all the rest were not frauds,
In your dream, the constitution was not a scam,
In your dream, the Supreme court is not a scam,
In your dream, 9/11 was not a scam"
In your dreams, the war on terror is not a scam,
In your dream, al -qaeda was not a scam,
In your dream I.S.I.S. is not a scam"
Lyrics excerpted from "Dreams [Anarchist Blues]":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMXtoUtXrTU
Regards, onebornfree
Financial safety &Personal; freedom consulting:
onebornfreeatyhoodotcom
YO HO HO AND A BOTTLE O' JET FUEL
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." -Emma Goldman.1869 ? 1940.
Bottom line: It really makes no difference which clown gets elected, the deep state will carry on exactly as before.
Or, "Dream On"?:
"......In your dream, Donald Trump is not a fraud,
In your dream, Sanders is not a fraud,
In your dream, all the rest are not frauds,
In your dream, Obama is not a fraud,
In your dream, Reagan was not a fraud,
In your dream, all the rest were not frauds,
In your dream, the constitution was not a scam,
In your dream, the Supreme court is not a scam,
In your dream, 9/11 was not a scam"
In your dreams, the war on terror is not a scam,
In your dream, al -qaeda was not a scam,
In your dream I.S.I.S. is not a scam"
Lyrics excerpted from "Dreams [Anarchist Blues]":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMXtoUtXrTU
Regards, onebornfree
The trade-off for whatever "libertarian ideals" Bern holds near and dear is not near good enough to seriously consider supporting him. Bern is all "anti-interventionist" except when it comes to your life; his ideal government is one that will be up your ass on every decision you make. That's not worth being able to legally rip a bongload.
Hillary Clinton supports Obama's racist war on drugs
Hillary Clinton supports Obama's War on Womyn who smoke Weed.
Hillary Clinton is racist and sexist !!!
"The Democratic showdown in Brooklyn might be the last time Sanders can showcase what few libertarian ideals he holds."
Give it up already.