Who To Blame For the Rise of ISIS?

Earlier this week, ISIS claimed responsibility for the deadly bombings in Brussels, which took the lives of 34 people. 

Anthony Fisher sat down with Michael Weiss, co-author of the New York Times bestseller ISIS: Inside the Army of Terror in October to discuss ISIS and how it was created.

Originally published on Oct 15, 2015

"I'm out of solutions here," says Michael Weiss, a senior editor at The Daily Beast and co-author of the New York Times bestseller, ISIS: Inside the Army of Terror, widely viewed as the most comprehensive study of the brutal Islamist entity that controls a wide swath of land between Iraq and Syria.

Speaking with Reason TV about U.S. involvement in the disastrous Syrian civil war, Weiss laments, "I can speak glibly about no-fly zones, but at this point I just understand this administration is never going to do anything to rescue the Syrian people or prevent Assad, Iran, and Russia from killing everybody they want to."

Weiss, a foreign affairs reporter with extensive experience covering the Middle East and Russia, believes that the U.S. had options besides war that could have prevented the refugee crisis becoming the global fiasco it is today. But, charges Weiss, President Obama's determination to achieve a nuclear deal with Iran meant he refused to pursue policies that might disrupt Assad's Syria. 

With Russian jets bombing non-ISIS rebel groups in Syria and Obama leaving office in early 2017, Weiss "guarantees the following: Assad will still be in Damascus. ISIS will still be in Syria [and] eventually Russia will bomb ISIS, but they haven't really been doing it yet."

Produced by Anthony L. Fisher. Camera by Jim Epstein with help from Dan Rogenstein.

Comments

[robc]

No 4 year old comments on this one?

[The Hyperbole]

I'll say it right now, that 47% comment is gonna sink Romney.

[Chumby]

Romney has binders full of four-year-old comments.

[The Hyperbole]

Ewww!

[Steve G]

4 yr old?? Pshaw! I aim for at least ignorant teenager with my comments.
Oh, you meant..

[Heroic Mulatto]

Hit 'n Run circa 2015-2016 - Live reenactment.

[GILMORE?]

Yes, it's all the trump-love in the comments... Not the incessant trump-obsession of the magazine that really defined the tone around here.

[Heroic Mulatto]

I present it with no comment...what people bring into their observation of the situation belongs to them.

[Notorious UGCC]

"So, when I see nothing but dirty pictures, that's just me?"

/dirty old man

[GILMORE?]

Didn't watch video. On phone @ lax game

[Heroic Mulatto]

The summary of the 2008 election of 'Old vs. Black' was funny, imo.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Anyway here's a summary: Comedian has set on political humor which revolves around self-deprecation as he sarcastically highlights the observation that no one gives a shit about what stand-up comics think about politics nor is a joke likely to change one's political opinions. Then a drunk obnoxious girl walks in 40 minutes into a 90 minute set. Comedian tells a milquetoast joke about Trump, which again revolves around self-deprecation as the joke is that Trump supporters aren't going to change their opinion based on some "smug" standup comic's joke. The mere fact that he articulated the Holy Tetragrammaton outside of the Holiest of Holies was enough to motivate drunk, obnoxious girl to heckle the comedian. Comedian then responds with the common-sense observation that the universe doesn't revolves around that particular drunk, obnoxious girl and her sensibilities.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

But was it funny?

[C. Anacreon]

Unfortunately, no.
I really like good stand-up, but this guy doesn't seem to be very talented or insightful.

[Pat (PM)]

I really like good stand-up, but this guy doesn't seem to be very talented or insightful.

I mean, he's famous for his YouTube clips taking down hecklers at his shows, not so much for his actual shows. Some of his takedowns of hecklers are hilarious, but if you're a really good comic you probably aren't dealing with hecklers as often as Hofstetter does, just sayin'. The cynical part of me thinks maybe his YouTube channel pays better, so he just plays the role nowadays.

[GILMORE?]

he's famous for his YouTube clips taking down hecklers at his shows,

yeah. I've seen a dozen clips of him getting into tit-for-tats with his audience, but i've never seen an entire set of material where he actually "performs". it never occurred to me that his "show" is actually 'heckler baiting' for clicks.

[GILMORE?]

" the universe doesn't revolves around that particular drunk, obnoxious girl ""

...

Who is the drunk chick in the h&R parallel?

(Sips long island ice tea through straw and makes "yeah, bitch" eyes)

[AlmightyJB]

Pretty much everyone?

[GILMORE?]

(hugs JB and starts sobbing uncontrollably)

[Ted S.]

Nicole.

[Playa Manhattan.]

LAX game?

[Knutsack]

A game in which nobody gives a good effort?

[Knutsack]

UW LaCrosse is playing?

[C. Anacreon]

LAX game?

I'm sure you Southern Californians see that and think it's some pastime that you do while waiting for your flight at the Los Angeles airport.

A handful of us, especially with those with kids playing the game, which is in season right now, recognize it as an abbreviation for lacrosse.

[Hamster of Doom]

That must play hell with your baseball schedule.

[B. Woodrow Chippenhaus]

I'm sure Republican obstructionism is somehow to blame.

[Jerryskids]

"I'm out of solutions here"

If you're done looking for solutions, can we try trade-offs now?

[sloopyinTEXAS]

Like Bowe Bergdahl?

[Notorious UGCC]

Like Thomas Sowell

[DenverJ]

"Who to blame for the rise of ISIS"
Hitler?

[Episiarch]

Your mom. Duh doi.

[C. Anacreon]

I blame Shazam for the rise of Isis.

[Chumby]

Faggot cookies are to blame.

[Trigger Hippie]

I keep seeing that term lately. Is that slang for communion wafer in a Unitarian church?

[DenverJ]

These masturbation euphemisms are getting pretty abstract.

[Chumby]

IIRC someone meant to type "faggot commies" with their computer autocorrecting "commies" to "cookies." They posted prior to realizing the change. Hence, faggot cookies.

[Trigger Hippie]

Ah, gotcha. I've seen Suicidy throw that around a few times while calling for the blood of all socialists. I guess he doesn't diligently check the autocorrect either. 😉

[Trigger Hippie]

Or that's who you were referring to in the first place. Fuck, I don't know.

[Chumby]

It might have been him. Was mid to late January this year.

I had asked for the recipe. *still waiting*

[The Hyperbole]

Not cookies, but the best I could find.

[GILMORE?]

I blame Bush

And the jews

[Acosmist]

Perhaps the members of ISIS are human beings with agency and are thus responsible for the rise of the group to which they belong.

[Ken Shultz]

We're responsible for our own choices, too.

We're responsible for our actions, and we're responsible for our inaction.

Doing nothing may be the best thing to do, but doing nothing also has consequences.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Nah, dude. It's global warming's fault.

[Acosmist]

:inserts Montesquieu quote from previous comment thread:

[GILMORE?]

I reject your theory and posit it is equal parts CIA, Halliburton, and Yokel Islamophibia

[juris imprudent]

Islamophibia

Great croaking Muslims! They can breathe underwater.

[Chumby]

Allah Ackbar! Wasn't General Ackbar some sort of amphibian/fish creature?

[pogi chips for liberty]

That's Admiral Ackbar, sport.

[wareagle]

seems the better question is what, if anything, is to be done about ISIS and like-minded groups.

[juris imprudent]

Give the House of Saud an offer they can't refuse and they'll turn off the funding to the export of Wahhabism.

[wareagle]

and yet, no one has done that. Then folks wonder why the conspiracy people are out there.

[Agammamon]

The Saudis are riding their tiger - they're not going to turn off anything because the whole reason they hopped on in the first place was to maintain power.

Get off and the tiger eats you. May as well stay on while the tiger goes after others.

[mtrueman]

"what, if anything, can be done about"

Haven't been reading the news? According to several agencies, ISIS has been sent packing from the Syrian town of Palmyra today thanks to the efforts of Russia, Syria, along with whatever help the Kurds, Hex and Iran are contributing.

[Suthenboy]

"Perhaps the members of ISIS are human beings with agency and are thus responsible for the rise of the group to which they belong."

Yeah, I was leaning in that direction myself.

[AlmightyJB]

I prefer to call them sociopaths since it is more specific than human beings.

[Ken Shultz]

The organization that changed its name to ISIS predates the Iraq War, but without the invasion of Iraq, ISIS would be a footnote to a footnote today. I'd say ISIS' rise can be most obviously attributed to the invasion of Iraq and their rise to prominence as Al Qaeda in Iraq. Their subsequent estrangement from Al Qaeda was largely over their enthusiasm for targeting Shia (over the objections of Al Qaeda leadership) in the aftermath of the invasion. Again, the chaos of the occupation was an extension of the invasion. Blame ISIS' rise on the invasion of Iraq.

Obama could be blamed for the draw down, but that analysis is missing an important piece of the puzzle. Our retreat may have given ISIS more room to grow, but our presence there was driving their support. What was stopping them from spreading without checks was also what was driving their growth. Real life is full of paradox! They certainly weren't going to disappear so long as we were waving our ground troops in front of them like a red cape in front of an enraged bull. The correct answer to the question of what we should do now is that not every problem has a simple solution.

[GILMORE?]

You're basically conflating ISIS with all Sunni sectarian militias since forever.

Which is fine. But I think it's a mistake to to think that the Iraq invasion "created" them in any sense other than that the ensuing change in the power balance in favor of the Shia majority sparked a regional civil war.

[wareagle]

ISIS filled the vacuum left behind after the US withdrawal. Something was going to, which may be why NOT toppling dictators is often the best of the bad options. See: Libya, post-Qaddafi for further explanation.

[GILMORE?]

"" the vacuum""

By which you mean the inability of a Shiite regime to control large swaths of Iraq.

It's not just about toppling dictators. It's the fact that Iraq should probably be 3 countries instead of one

[wareagle]

the vacuum was the absence of a strongman dictator who kept various factions in some degree of check. How ironic that Uncle Joe, of all people, may have been the most prescient of all re: Iraq.

[Ken Shultz]

If authoritarian strongmen are the real solution to sectarian violence, then we should all give up on libertarianism.

Strong men paper over the causes of sectarian violence, and not only do they typically prevent the real solutions to that problem (economic growth, rising standards of living, etc) from working their magic, they also typically exacerbate sectarian resentments by playing groups against each other.

I don't think Libya, Rwanda, or Yugoslavia erupted because they lost their authoritarian strongmen. They erupted in the aftermath of a strong man that exacerbated sectarian resentments.

[Ken Shultz]

Captain Obvious adds: :"And Saddam Hussein did that, too".

[wareagle]

libertarianism can't advance here, it has less than zero chance in a region dominated by some form or other or authoritarian govt. That was the folly of the Arab Spring nonsense, pretending that an area with no clue of freedom and self-governance would be able to pull it off.

Yugoslavia is not like the others. It is now several stand-alone republics and we're some years removed from the sectarian conflicts of Bosnia. I hold little belief that Rwanda will ever get past them, or Libya for that matter, given that tribalism pretty much seems to define the entire Middle East. When Sunni and Shia see each other as enemies, imagine being a non-Muslim.

[Ken Shultz]

"libertarianism can't advance here, it has less than zero chance in a region dominated by some form or other or authoritarian govt.

Authoritarianism is doomed to failure, and incrementally more freedom is an improvement. See China as an example. Give people a little more freedom, and they can do a lot better.

They can also slaughter each other like sheep. But that is ultimately the consequence of authoritarianism. And how many newly free people want their old dictators back?

As bad as things may be in Libya, I doubt anybody but the formerly wee-connected wish they could have Gaddafi back. As bad as things are in Iraq, how many Shia wish they could have Saddam Hussein back?

I'm not here to tell other people what they want or should want--I tend to look at these things from the perspective of American interests. But I don't remember hearing about people during the Civil War wishing we'd never won the American Revolution.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I'm sure the Sunnis will have no problem leaving the oil to the Kurds and Shias.

[GILMORE?]

That's the nut of it, really. But doesn't that make all the morning about 'radical islam' seem rather stupid?

[GILMORE?]

"Moaning"

[Francisco d'Anconia]

But, Ken is exactly right. This is a dilemma of our own making. We created ISIS.

Before the invasion, there was a nobody group called Al Qaeda Mesopotamia. They moved to Iraq post invasion, grew exponentially to fight the Americans and renamed themselves Al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI). There was a falling out with AQ and they again renamed themselves ISIS (same fuckers). Without the Iraqi invasion, this group would have never grown to prominence.

We make our own weather.

[GILMORE?]

Without the Iraqi invasion, this group would have never grown to prominence.

You two can dance around in this little self-affirming circle of causation all you want, but the fact remains that the sunni-shia power struggle that motivates ISIS has little to do with the united states. we may have been a spark that upset the stasis enforced by saddam, but we didn't "Invent" or "create" the underlying political grievances which you yourself just acknowledged are far more important than anything to do with any "radical islam" ideology

[C. Anacreon]

Speaking of crackpots, how's this for an explanation of the middle east (overheard from a rambling guy in the booth next to us at a restaurant the other night):

"When you get down to it, we can blame Hitler for all the trouble in the Middle East.

Hitler caused the extermination of 6 million Jews. So after World War II, a sad-faced United Nations created Israel as a way of saying they were sorry for what had happened.

But then, all the Arabs said 'what they hey, whadda you think you're doing -- we don't want all your Jews!' So they tried to force them back out of the Middle East.

But the Jews had America to back them up, so Israel kept going strong. And the Arabs just kept getting madder and madder, and started seeing America and Israel and Jews as the same thing. And that's what caused 9/11 and everything since.

So if there'd been no Hitler, there'd be no Israel, and Jews would instead be living all over the world instead, especially in Germany. And people would pretty much be getting along. And we'd have no terrorism.

But what can you do? That's history in a nutshell."

Thank goodness we were already on the chocolate lava cake and close to leaving when we heard this spiel.

[mtrueman]

"But the Jews had America to back them up, so Israel kept going strong. "

Did you know that the first foreign leader to back Israel was Joseph Stalin. The US followed suit a few days later. America's wealth certainly was important in Israel's early days, but let's not forget the communists' invaluable experience in ethnic cleansing and population transfer that make Israel what it is today.

[Sevo]

"...let's not forget the communists' invaluable experience in ethnic cleansing and population transfer that make Israel what it is today."

Let's not forget the idiot trueman's inability to post anything that isn't some piece of irrelevant trivia or a or an outright lie.

[mtrueman]

"an outright lie..."

Stalin's ethnic cleansing and population transfers in the USSR never occurred. On planet Sevo.

[Sevo]

mtrueman|3.27.16 @ 11:36PM|#
"Stalin's ethnic cleansing and population transfers in the USSR never occurred. On planet Sevo."

Shitbag has to invent a statement I never made to respond to. I'm pretty sure most folks call that a "strawman", while shitbag here calls it "clever"
You are pathetic....

[GILMORE?]

Oh, yeah... the middle east would be one giant lovefest if only they could forget about the jews for a minute.

[Sevo]

Ask him for a cite once, G.
It'll be Wiki if you get one.

[mtrueman]

"Ask him for a cite once, G."

Don't bother, and don't look to Sevo for advice. He's good for bringing attention to posts of mine nobody else responds to and little else. I encourage you to do your own research. I'm not interested in doing yours for you. Still, feel free ask any questions you have.

[Sevo]

mtrueman|3.27.16 @ 11:46PM|#
"Don't bother, and don't look to Sevo for advice. He's good for bringing attention to posts of mine nobody else responds to and little else. I encourage you to do your own research. I'm not interested in doing yours for you."

Shitbag posts excuses, admission of ignorance and self-promo!
Way to go!
Fuck off, shitbag.

[mtrueman]

"if only they could forget about the jews for a minute."

Wishing to be forgotten. Not much of a strategy.

[Sevo]

mtrueman|3.27.16 @ 11:41PM|#
"Wishing to be forgotten. Not much of a strategy."

Bullshit posing as a comment. Not much of a brain.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

You two can dance around in this little self-affirming circle of causation all you want,

And you can affirmingly stick your head in the sand. Everything stated there is absolute fact. I've cited it repetitively. Any problem betweens the three factions, prior to US interference, were dealt with by Saddam and not our concern.

The Iraq war was a clusterfuck that created yet more clusterfucks. But you interventionists keep plugging away. It's only a matter of time before you bomb them into being our and each other's friends.

[Ron]

this also assumes that Saddam Hussien would have remained in power forever with or without U.S. involvement.

[Ken Shultz]

Their ability to finance themselves matters. I think it's more about Sunni and Shia being unable to trust each other to tolerate each others' religious beliefs.

They didn't go through the Reformation, and they haven't yet decoupled sovereignty and religion. The west went through the same sectarian violence. The resolution was in the Peace of Westphalia. Your sovereign does not determine your religion, and you are free to practice your religion.

It's hard for Muslims to work that out for themselves when their sovereigns, from Mubarak and Assad to Gaddafi and Saddam Hussein, were dictating religion, politics, and everything else. In fact, if there's a dialectic going on in the Muslim world, it's between the theocracies of Sunni Saudi Arabia and Shia Iran. Being a minority in either of those countries sucks! How can they trust some sovereign of another religion to respect their rights? The only examples of that kind of tolerance came from secularist authoritarians in the Muslim world--not religious people. (The Turkish experiment is still developing).

[Ken Shultz]

When the Muslim Brotherhood gets into power, they're finally free to fly. When they're deposed, they're suddenly prey. The more they're preyed upon, the more dangerous the Brotherhood becomes. This is what it was like during the Thirty Years War between Lutherans, Catholics, and Calvinists. Eventually they worked out what we would recognize as religious First Amendment rights in the Peace of Westphalia. Eventually, the Muslim world will work that out, too. If it takes them less than 30 years to do it, they'll be doing better than the Christian west did. It wasn't ever going to happen with all those dictators in charge. And they've only been out of power for a few years. Assad is still in power.

[Pay up, Palin's Buttplug!]

Eventually, the Muslim world will work that out, too. If it takes them less than 30 years to do it, they'll be doing better than the Christian west did.

The Muslim World has been at it since at least the Battle of Karbala in October 680 AD (61 AH).

So they've been working it out for at least 1335 years.

[Agammamon]

And the US's firm dismissal of that very idea when it was publicly mooted back in the beginning.

Don't forget that the US *itself* has strong incentives to push the 'primacy and immortality of the nation-state' meme. If people started getting the idea that maybe completely separate ideological groups might be better off apportioned into self-rule zones instead of aggregated . . .

[Mickey Rat]

If that puts one in the awkward position of arguing that a brutal dictatorship is the best, or at least "least worst" situation.

[Ken Shultz]

"You're basically conflating ISIS with all Sunni sectarian militias since forever."

No.

The group that changed its name to ISIS was founded in 1999, four years before we invaded Iraq.

Under the same leadership, it changed its name to Al Qaeda in Iraq and affiliated with Al Qaeda.

They broke with Al Qaeda over a number of issues--one of them being Al Qaeda in Iraq's affinity for attacking Shiite pilgrims, etc. When Al Qaeda in Iraq broke with Al Qaeda, they changed their name to ISIS/ISIL.

But they were all the same group. I'm not "conflating" anything. They changed their names, but they had the same leadership, everything. They simply rebranded.

[Harun]

Many leaders of ISIS are former Baathists.

Army of the Men of the Naqshbandi Order

People need to keep this in mind when they consider ISIS.

[mtrueman]

Many of those perpetrating attacks in Europe are themselves European and are not particularly religious. Not "Allah Akbar," but "This is for Syria!" were the last words of a young French man before he blew him in a terror operation in Paris last year. Nice thing about ISIS is that it has so many fracture lines. It'll fall apart soon enough.

[Ken Shultz]

There are significant downsides to every option. The worst downsides from an American security perspective come from putting more American troops on the ground. The best outcome from a short term American security perspective has to do with abandoning humanitarian concerns by doing to Sunnis what we did to the residents of Hamburg, Dresden, and Tokyo--of course, doing that may have long term negative consequences for American security. And it's immoral.

Meanwhile, there is no substitute for locals and/or their neighbors taking territory from ISIS on the ground and holding it. Assuming the locals have the will to do so, they'll need our financial and logistical support. Yes, we'll be supporting nasty groups committing atrocities. We will necessarily need to look the other way while they win an ugly war in an ugly way with our help, and we will have to look the other way if and when they win and deal with Sunnis in the region once and for all.

That's part of what we did to win the Cold War.

If we're not up for any of those options, then let's refrain from blaming Obama for not doing anything. Because arming vicious rebels, putting American troops on the ground, or World War II style carpet bombing is what doing something effective looks like.

[GILMORE?]

""there is no substitute for locals and/or their neighbors taking territory from ISIS ""

This presumes there's no overlap between 'locals' and ISIS

[Suthenboy]

I think you are largely correct Ken. I don't know if anyone has solid detailed info on exactly who and where ISIS is. I suspect they live among the populations friendly or not hostile to them.

War is hell. Moral doesnt enter into it. Don't get into one if you aren't going in big and in to win. Fucking around trying to nation build or executing surgical strikes is a waste of time, money and lives. If we aren't willing to wage war effectively, don't get into one at all.

If we want to see what it takes to be effective in that part of the world see Kitchener and The Mahdi.

[mtrueman]

"World War II style carpet bombing is what doing something effective looks like."

Just make sure you don't try the Vietnam style carpet bombing. That's what losing yet another war looks like.

[dajjal]

Unless they support fundamental values of freedom (speech and religion) and democracy then we have no business supporting them. They have to learn the hard way, sorry to say. And it doesn't matter if they are 'western friendly' because as soon as they gain power they will abuse it to torture and oppress the other factions. How to tell if they value freedom? First of all you can safely ignore the sand monument consecrations to Admiral Dempsey. They are worthless. Secondly, just test their children. If they only know the Koran then don't bother.

Yes the West is responsible for the rise of ISIS by destabilizing them. We can continue to ignore the tyrants and hope they keep things together. But better to support the groups that are fighting for principles not power. As for the refugee crisis, that is Europe's problem and can only be solved in the same way: they must immediately decriminalize speech, religion, and assembly.

[GILMORE?]

Cool story bro

[Brochettaward]

I don't know if you are a troll account, dajjal. I have suspected that you are. I do know that you are incoherent so it doesn't really matter. There is no prescription for anything in your post.

[Trigger Hippie]

"better to support the groups that are fighting for principles not power."

And who would that be exactly? Outside the scope of immediate self-defense I'm not sure any such group has ever existed.

[Agammamon]

Then maybe we should stop 'intervening' in all these bullshit fights?

[Trigger Hippie]

You'll get no argument from me on that.

[Notorious UGCC]

Johnny Cash sings "Ain't no Grave Can Hold my Body Down"

* * * * * * * * * *

[AlmightyJB]

That's good shit right there. It's interesting that he started out wanted to sing Christian Spirituals but the recording studios weren't interested. Then he ends up doing something beautiful like that. Natural fits into the blue's rock wheelhouse too.

[sarcasmic]

I blame Bush. Seriously. Had Saddam Hussein not been overthrown, the environment that allowed for the group to flourish would not have been created. Then again the guy wasn't going to live forever, and who knows if his successor would have been able to do the same. Either way though, invading Iraq was a bad move.

[wareagle]

maybe, which makes ousting Qaddafi all the more stupid. Iraq did have an elected govt post-Saddam but it also had the tribal conflicts that no election can eliminate.

[sarcasmic]

Iraq had an ineffective government post-Saddam. Doesn't matter if it was elected or not if it can't do its job.

[Social Contractor]

Is ISIS worse than Saddam?

[Lee G]

I'd say it is. Saddam was mostly contained. ISIS is destabilizing the region even more than it already was.

Iraq was a British construct that required a strongman to hold it together. Removing that strongman necessitated splitting the country up to get any stability. Even Cheney (circa 1994) understood this.

[Harun]

Assad was not invaded, and yet he ended up in civil war.

Saddam Hussein was getting older, and his sons were worse than Assad Jr.

In all likelihood, Saddam's death would have led to a civil war just like Syria's.

Invading Iraq may have been a bad move, because of its simmering civil war under the surface, but that doesn't mean if we never invaded they wouldn't have had a civil war.

Syria, Libya, Egypt, etc. - aging dictators leads to regime change from within, and its never pretty.

[mtrueman]

"Assad was not invaded..."

How many million refugees, many Baathists, from Iraq ended up in Syria? How many US armed foreign fighters ended up in Syria after the fall of Libya? You should learn more about the civil war in Libya and Syria. Start by following Hillary Clinton's time as Foreign Minister.

[AlmightyJB]

That was a very informative video. Weiss obviously has a great deal of expertise on the subject. I would recommend watching if you haven't. I think I'm going to head to Amazon and buy his book.

[Rich]

Seconded.

[Medical Physics Guy]

Agreed.

[AlmightyJB]

Moral of the story. Leave shit alone. Russia will eventually bomb ISIS? Great, sounds like they have it covered.

[juris imprudent]

Mob of progs and neo-cons: Leave shit alone? What kind of crazy talk is that?

[wareagle]

I'm less interested in who's to blame than in what, if anything, can be done about.

[Suthenboy]

Something my Grand Daddy used to say seems apt. "You can't stir the shit without gettin' it on you".

[pan fried wylie]

Note to self: avoid Suthendaddy's cooking.

[Medical Physics Guy]

On a related note, here's your exciting latest news from Belgium;

Last November 10 hours of surveillance footage of a top Belgian nuclear scientist was discovered in a house belonging to a known jihadi, but the existence of the footage was only acknowledged by Belgian authorities on February 18 after it
was leaked to a Belgian paper.

[...]

Belgium prosecutors told the Sunday Telegraph that Mr Prospero was not employed at a nuclear plant, but worked guarding a nuclear medical research facility in Fleurus, near Charleroi, about 30 miles from his home in Froidchapelle.
This was contradicted by G4S who said that Mr Prospero was a general patrol officer

[...]

After the filming was discovered in February, the interior minister, Jan Jambon, rejected the proposal, saying: "Nothing indicates a specific threat to nuclear power plants? This is why we are not planning any military support."
The government soon changed its mind and on March 4 approved the deployment of 140 soldiers to guard five nuclear facilities.

[PapayaSF]

140 Belgium soldiers! What's that, like 10% of their whole army?

[GILMORE?]

.004%

[Chumby]

+1 Schlieffen Plan
-1 Malinois

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

"But, charges Weiss, President Obama's determination to achieve a nuclear deal with Iran meant he refused to pursue policies that might disrupt Assad's Syria. "

All while being cheered on by the western media. And if there's one thing that Obama responds to, it's media cheerleaders and approbation from hip, rolling Stone reporters.

[wareagle]

and had Obama pursued "policies that might disrupt Assad's Syria," what guarantee is there that disruption = improvement. As Iraq, Libya, and other places have shown, something bad can always be replaced by something worse.

[Suthenboy]

"...something bad can always be replaced with something worse."

As I recall some of the 'good rebels' in Syria are currently operating human slaughterhouses, sacrificing people to Allah, butchering them and selling the meat. Those are the people Hillary and Obumbles were running guns to. Google it up for videos if you want your Easter Sunday ruined.

Invading Iraq was a stupid, vain thing to do. Leave it to Obumbles to take a bad situation and turn the entire ME into a clusterfuck from one end to the other.

I still have no idea what is in the Iran deal, why we wanted it, what the reasons are for wanting Assad gone and what we hope to accomplish there or in Libya or Yemen. Does this president even have a coherent strategy? Has he told anyone what that might be, or is this part of that 5 dimensional chess I keep hearing about and we are just too stupid to understand him?

[wareagle]

Does this president even have a coherent strategy?

I tend to think the answer is yes, but the variable here is "coherent." People keep judging this man through the usual calculus, but none of his predecessors talked about fundamental transformations and the like. With Obama, things that sane people consider bugs, he sees as features and vice-versa.

[Ayn Random Variation]

Make no mistake, the Islamic State of Islamic Islamicists have nothing to do with Islam.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Does this president even have a coherent strategy?

It is "Don't Do Stupid Shit".

After the colossal fuckups of the previous administration (nation building, spreading democracy, procuring oil rights, $2 trillion wasted, etc) it is a remarkably good foreign policy.

[Brochettaward]

How much was pumped into Afghanistan for nothing in a war Obama didn't believe in? How stupid was just evacuating Iraq? Building bridges to Iran while destroying them with everyone else. At the same time that Iran is stirring up shit elsewhere?

Obama's done plenty of stupid shit. Americans have died as a result of it, and large amounts of cash were wasted. You worthless cunt.

[Palin's Buttplug]

If it had been up to one of you TEAM RED! assholes we would be in new ground wars with Syria, Iran, and Libya. Instead we are in no new ground wars.

[Agammamon]

"If it had been up to one of you TEAM RED!"

There is, to my knowledge, literally only ONE poster here who consistently advocates for 'boots on the ground' interventions. And he even doesn't think just blowing up the government from the air and making things worse for ourselves is a good plan.

Unlike you, who considers it a 'win' if we can really fuck up and destabilize a region without putting a soldier on the ground.

I guess it is an *increase in efficiency* when we can get the same fucked up results without the loss of American lives. Its just not *not* a 'stupid idea'.

couple more things.

1. There *were* boots on the ground in Libya - that's *how* you do any serious targeting of ground forces. You need someone there to find the hidden shit. Otherwise the AF guys are just going to be shooting at convoys - which are as likely to be people fleeing as they are military/supplies moving. AF pilots don't like being party to war crimes.

2. I don't understand how you think there's a fundamental difference between airstrikes and any other form of combat. Its all combat, its all a quagmire if you don't know what you're supposed to be achieving. That whole 'kinetic military action' bullshit was nothing more than high school level sophistry. Its *pathetic* that this president trotted it out as serious justification as to why he could do this on his own.

[Palin's Buttplug]

US cost of NATO "war" in Libya = $500 million.

US cost of US led "coalition of the gullible" Iraq disaster = $2 trillion and counting.

Let me illustrate the magnitude of those numbers.

One is a government rounding error - the other is more than the total of US individual taxes paid in 2010.

[Agammamon]

Cost of the repercussions of letting Quadaffi get stabbed in the but . . . priceless.

[Chumby]

PB

Running guns to the moderate wing of ISIS doesn't fall under don't do stuid shit?

[Agammamon]

wat?

Is this a *new* policy?

I remind you that this administration has continued and expanded on the 'stupid shit' done by its predecessor *and* added a whole slew of stupider shit to the roster.

Libya
Benghazi
PPACA
You didn't build that

Stupid shit like that doesn't ring a bell?

[Palin's Buttplug]

"Libya
Benghazi
PPACA
You didn't build that"

You compare this piddly-ass shit with Iraq and the trillion dollar deficits and financial crisis the Bushpigs left?

Libya was NATO, Benghazi is a made up controversy, Obamacare preserved our private health care system and saved us from single-payer, and the last was a comment about publicly financed roads.

[Juvenile Bluster]

Does anyone know where I can contact PB's programmers? It's getting less and less coherent as time goes by.

[tarran]

Does anyone know where I can contact PB's programmers?

You're contacting them right here. Its neural net is being 'programmed' with each response it gets. By replying more wordily to its more ridiculous comments, you are teaching it to make more comments just like them.

Its pollution of the threads is entirely the collective fault of people who interact with it. You guys should all feel bad.

[Lee G]

Its neural net is being 'programmed' with each response it gets.

+1 twitterbot

[PapayaSF]

Obamacare preserved our private health care system and saved us from single-payer

DOES NOT COMPUTE! DOES NOT COMPUTE!

[C. Anacreon]

Just be careful. If you feed it a paradox, it explodes.

[Brochettaward]

Attacking Libya wouldn't have been possible without American support. There is no NATO without America.

Benghazi was not a made up controversy. Illegally and clandestinely running guns from Libya into Syria with shit poor security on the ground (using unreliable local militia mostly) is not a made-up scandal no matter how much assholes like you repeat otherwise.

How much did Afghanistan cost, you cunt? In both lives and dollars? No, not as much as Bush. But when you set-up your argument as Obama doesn't do stupid shit, qualitative differences go out the window and become ad hoc rationalizations to justify team left.

You throw out the debt amassed under Bush, and ignore how the debt has grown more overall under Obama. By a large margin. So what the hell is your argument? Only by comparing deficits to the last year of Bush's reign to Obama's can your ridiculous argument hold water. Obama has been worse in terms of government spending than Bush.

Shitty trolling. A good troll can still bring value to an argument and an echo chamber. You are worthless. A worthless cunt, as already stated.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Ha! Reagan ran guns all over the Middle East and Central America and nothing happened to him. The GOP loved his illegal activity

Sure, the debt has piled up under Obama but not due to his policies. He inherited a $1.2 trillion deficit and has cut it down to $450 billion. The Bushpigs inherited a surplus and fucked it completely up like everything they touched. Bush policies (wars, out of control domestic spending, new departments, tax cuts) created those deficits.

[Agammamon]

Obama must be a fucking genius man, to cut down a budget deficit during a decade and a half of constant warfare.

Oh, that' right - he didn't. Its all accounting tricks where you push stuff off into a different book not labeled 'budget' and go 'see, look how fiscally responsible I am!'

C'mon man - you're just getting sad with this shit.

Its OK - Obama has been shit president. So were Bush and Clinton. I'm not even that that crazy about George Sr.

[Pat (PM)]

And here I thought congress controlled the purse strings of government. Weird coincidence how the deficit increased every year from 2007 until it blew up to a record high of 4 times the previous year in 2009 - the magical baseline year for all of Obama's spending. I wonder what happened in 2007?

Mighty white of Obama (and not congress) to save us from that single-year record-setting trillion dollar deficit caused by supposedly one-time emergency spending measures a mere 6 years into his presidency though. Now the deficit is whittled down to just 50 billion dollars more than the record high prior to the 2009 benchmark of over a trillion. Thank you based god.

[Agammamon]

You don't get to keep blaming on Bush what Obama's had near 8 years to deal with.

Bush started a war - Obama, contrary to his campaigning, continued and expanded on it.

You keep talking about TEAM RED! When *you're* on it!

[Agammamon]

And you don't get to blame Bush for a financial crisis that was caused by the very progressives you idolize.

You certainly don't get to blame him for his response to that crisis when a) it was the very thing your progressive idols tout as the cure-all to any problem - more spending! - and b) Obama *continued those policies*.

[Palin's Buttplug]

I hate progressives, you idiot. I am a classic liberal.

And the entire housing bubble formed during 2000-2007 while Bush fed it with new programs that paid $10,000 downpayments for first time homebuyers and he even killed the Net Capital Rule that limited Wall Street's leverage to reasonable levels. No TARP would have been required if big banks had not levered themselves 40-1. We would have just had an ordinary asset bubble like the Dot-Com one.

You are way out of your league here, pal.

[Sevo]

Palin's Buttplug|3.27.16 @ 5:06PM|#
"...I am a classic liberal...."

You're a team-blue sociopath and a lying POS.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Fuck you, Sevo. I would vote for Trump before I would that idiot "progressive" Sanders. They are both anti-trade - if forced to vote for one of them.

(In reality I would vote for Gary Johnson)

[Sevo]

Palin's Buttplug|3.27.16 @ 5:18PM|#
"I would vote for Trump before I would that idiot "progressive" Sanders. They are both anti-trade - if forced to vote for one of them."

Suuuuuure you would. Just like you'd pay off your loss.
I repeat: You're a lying POS,.

[Suthenboy]

He has already admitted that truth means nothing a la Lakoff. The only thing that matters is what serves the narrative. Nothing out of his mouth is relevant.

[Chumby]

PB - you will vote for Hillary and be proud to do so just as you were when you voted for Obama three years ago (too young to vote for him the first time, right?).
Your Benghazi comments tip your hand.

[Pat (PM)]

I am a classic liberal.

Shit, I remember when you were a hardcore libertarian - maybe the only libertarian here! What was your score on that political quiz again?

[Palin's Buttplug]

Nope, I always claimed that I failed the LP Purity Test.

Only scored a 96.

[Chumby]

A 96 on an IQ test explains a lot. Was that a natural 96 or were you exposed to lead as a youngster?

[Ted S.]

What was your score on that political quiz again?

8%.

[Agammamon]

"Palin's Buttplug|3.27.16 @ 5:06PM|#

I hate progressives, you idiot. I am a classic liberal."

hey, you know how you get mad when people mistake you for a progressive when you're a 'classic liberal' and then you get all pissy and start throwing around insults?

Yeah, well there's like . . . *two* guys here who are conservatives and only *one* of them's a Republican.

Keep that in mind the next time you feel like throwing around terms like 'TEAM RED! retards'.

[Agammamon]

"Palin's Buttplug|3.27.16 @ 5:06PM|#

I hate progressives, you idiot. I am a classic liberal."

hey, you know how you get mad when people mistake you for a progressive when you're a 'classic liberal' and then you get all pissy and start throwing around insults?

Yeah, well there's like . . . *two* guys here who are conservatives and only *one* of them's a Republican.

Keep that in mind the next time you feel like throwing around terms like 'TEAM RED! retards'.

And that 'no-money downpayment' thing for houses? Yeah, that was a *Democrat* initiative to buy votes. Because 'using your ability to *pay* for a house was 'structural discrimination' and had a 'disparate impact'.

Because your fellow progressive ideologues figured they can end racism by ending disparate impact.

[Agammamon]

And I can't really be out of my depth - you repeat the exact same talking points every time you show up. You just get more strident each time.

So, really - I don't understand why you're here. If we 'just don't understand' and are 'TEAM RED! retards', then why waste your time? I don't go over and bother your favorite Salon and HuffPost authors by pissing in the comments.

You're not (l)ibertarian, you're not even 'classic liberal' - you've shown us time and again you are pro big government and like pro-intervention foreign policies regardless of who well thought out they are - when they're run by Democrats.

You're just an 8%er and you need to pay off on that bet.

[Sevo]

"You compare this piddly-ass shit with Iraq and the trillion dollar deficits and financial crisis the Bushpigs left?"

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!
Never get tired blaming Bush for Obo's disasters, does it?

[Chumby]

It is blaming Booooosh for Benghazi as well (Hillary's pooch screwing). We could probably make just as good an argument for James Earl Carter regarding region problems since the overthrow of the Shah was on his watch and occurred in part to his involvement.

[mtrueman]

"We could probably make just as good an argument for James Earl Carter regarding region problems since the overthrow of the Shah was on his watch and occurred in part to his involvement."

Carter did not overthrow the Shah. That was active Iranian students and passive Iranian security forces. What Carter was responsible for was the 'Carter Doctrine,' essentially turning the Persian Gulf into American waters. Even Libertarians don't seem to have any problem with this policy. I've never read any criticism of it in these pages.

[Chumby]

IIRC he allowed a dictatorial POS that Eisenhower and Schwartzkopf's dad put into power come to the US to get medical treatment when other places wouldn't give him treatment/defacto asylum.

So he let the bad guy come here, which didn't endear us to the pissed off Iranians. You could go neo-con/hawkish and complain he didn't actively support replacing the Shah.

[Pompey]

Home cooked brunch was excellent. First time doing "blender hollandaise" rather than double boiler, and I was pleasantly surprised, used a dot of Huy Fong sriracha to add the kick. Fuck the double boiler method from now on. Applied to Eggs Benedict, half of which had smoked salmon and the other half with prosciutto. Both protiens in place of Canadian bacon rounds. Was let down by a tin of German mustard packed herring last night, converted the leftover balance of the fillet into a nice fluffy fish cake with torn fresh basil leaves and topped with the excess hollandaise. Blanched asparagus was shocked in ice water, only to be lightly scorched on the grill before serving and tossed in lemon juice. Ample Prosecco mimosas with tangerine juice. Rosemary ham frittata for the 4 year old, with shaker parmesan cheese since kids have no taste.

Reserving the balance of the asparagus for chorico and roasted red pepper baked eggs tonight.

[AlmightyJB]

Nice. Just put in a ham. Doing a roasted lemon parm zucchini on the side. Had a nice rack of lamb last night with creamy muchroom pasta and roasted broccoli sides.

[pan fried wylie]

Shaker cheese is a perfectly acceptable salt-alternative condiment.

[AlmightyJB]

In your latest sociopath news

http://www.latimes.com/world/l.....story.html

[Chumby]

It was because the Christian bake would not make them a gay cake that didn't include pig blood.

[__Warren__]

So the 9-64 Sixers are at the 65-7 Warriors tonight and that has got to be the biggest win-loss disparity in a game in League history.

The point spread is only 21.5 though, I was expecting it to be closer to 28-30. Golden State can easily win this game by 60 if they keep their starters in. Not that they would of course.

[Palin's Buttplug]

That 21.5 spread is designed to split the bettors money 50-50.

[DK]

And, the odds that you'll pay off your bet? ... OTB.

[Notorious UGCC]

Lamb recipe for Easter, with a cookbook giveaway

(NOTE: This link is to a site maintained by a third party (a newspaper blog). Eddie (that's me) gives no guarantee as to the tastiness of the lamb or the genuineness of the contest. I suppose the question is...do ya feel lucky?)

[Notorious UGCC]

Cardinal Raymond Burke and Rabbi Jonathan Sacks debate the meaning of the Messianic prophecies in the Old Testament

(ha ha, just kidding, it's about deep dish pizza)

[Notorious UGCC]

John McCain goes maverick-y in the New York Times:

"Delmer Berg wasn't a celebrity....He joined the United States Communist Party in 1943, and, according to The [recent NY] Times [obituary], he remained an "unreconstructed Communist" for the rest of his life. He was 100.

"He was also the last known living veteran of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade....

"You might consider them romantics, fighting in a doomed cause for something greater than their self-interest. And even though men like Mr. Berg would identify with a cause, Communism, that inflicted far more misery than it ever alleviated ? and rendered human dignity subservient to the state ? I have always harbored admiration for their courage and sacrifice in Spain....

"Mr. Berg went to Spain when he was a very young man. He fought in some of the biggest and most consequential battles of the war. He sustained wounds. He watched friends die. He knew he had ransomed his life to a lost cause, for a people who were strangers to him, but to whom he felt an obligation, and he did not quit on them."

[Notorious UGCC]

McCain's props-to-a-fellow-veteran schtick didn't seem to apply to the Confederate flag, which he regarded as an evil symbol, and he made public mea culpas for dishonestly concealing his dislike of the flag in order to get votes.

[Notorious UGCC]

http://reason.com/blog/2015/06.....dential-po

[Agammamon]

Every time McCain does something that makes me feel an iota of respect for the man, then he goes and does something like this to destroy it.

That's the Arizona legislature in a nutshell.

[Pat (PM)]

"While I don't think rape is okay, I admire that he had the stamina and upper body strength to hold her down the entire time until he finished."

[juris imprudent]

WHEN STEVE SMITH DIE MCCAIN EULOGIZE WITH YER WORDS. STEVE SMITH NOT RAPE YOU OR YER WOMEN FOLK IN GRATITUDE.

[Lee G]

"You might consider them romantics, fighting in a doomed cause for something greater than their self-interest. And even though men like Mr. Berg would identify with a cause, Communism Islamism, that inflicted far more misery than it ever alleviated ? and rendered human dignity subservient to the state ? I have always harbored admiration for their courage and sacrifice in Spain Syria....

McCain, still an unreconstructed idiot

[Notorious UGCC]

Here's a story I just heard, supposedly true - it was time for a guy to tell the eldest of his three kids about the birds and the bees.

So he told him, and the kid was dumbfounded, and said: "So...you and Mom did all that THREE TIMES?"

[pan fried wylie]

"Well, I mean, I'm so virile it only took once, but for most people, yeah, all three times."

[Palin's Buttplug]

Right-wing "hooligans" battle Belgian police at shrine

"It was important for us to be here symbolically," said Samia Orosemane, a 35-year-old comedian. But, she added, "there were lots of men who were here and doing the Nazi salute, shouting 'death to Arabs' and so we weren't able to get through."

"We are all here today for peace, and for the brotherhood among peoples. Not for right-wing ideas. It's neither the time nor the place," said Theophile Mouange, 52.

Much like in France after the Paris attacks, public interest in fiery far-right nationalistic populism has exploded in popularity. Vocativ reports Facebook likes for Vlaams Belang, the right-wing populist party from Flanders, has surged more than 3,000 percent.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/be.....s-streets/

[Pat (PM)]

Theophile

Is that someone sexually attracted to deity?

[C. Anacreon]

No, sexually attracted to Alvin and Simon's brother.

[Chumby]

They were all gay:
Alvin's slimin' in Theodore!

[Rhywun]

Meanwhile, Belgium's government sought to contain criticism of its handling of the Brussels attacks on Sunday but acknowledged that neglect over decades had caused deficiencies that have hampered an effective response to violent extremism.

And of course, they don't mean "neglect" as in "deliberately letting the pot boil right under their noses" but rather "give us more money".

[Notorious UGCC]

"Eef we play zees right, we can fail our way upward into greater salary and benefits!"

[Notorious UGCC]

"Vocativ reports Facebook likes for Vlaams Belang, the right-wing populist party from Flanders, has surged more than 3,000 percent."

"Stupid Flanders!" /Belgian establishment

[Rhywun]

Facebook likes are literally worse than bombing your neighbors.

[Chumby]

Bombs only detonate once. FB posts can stay up in perpetuity. Continuing to microaggress.

[Rhywun]

I'm sure Zuckerberg will be along any moment to ease Belgians' fears of the wrong people expressing themselves.

[Ted S.]

Belgium's undemocratic parties already got the Vlaams Belang's predecessor, the Vlaams Bloc, banned several years ago.

[GILMORE?]

In case anyone wants a very-cheap laugh, please go look at some of the Youtube comments, where the consensus view of the above video seems to be

"Weiss is a jew shill for warmongers and this is all FOX propaganda lies"...

if you think i'm kidding - no

Bleepnsheep 5 months ago

ISIS=Israeli Supported Islamic Stooges. Wiess is just another shill. He's just a bad as Obama/Mc Cain. Assad is the true enemy of international terrorism. But it is as I expect from Treason TV.?

Lickity Split1 month ago

This Jewish neocon just wants the USA to to fight all of Israel's enemies that they have created. This clown needs to go back to Israel if he wants war so bad.?

there's about 100 variations on that theme.

[Lee G]

Assad is the true enemy of international terrorism.

So much stupid, so little time.

[juris imprudent]

I would never question one who has waded through the derp and returned to tell the tale.

[Suthenboy]

I am convinced that the average voter, and more so the average youtuber, make our stupidest trolls look like clear thinking geniuses.

I hear that crap and it is very obvious that not one iota of thought has gone into it. It is straight up parroting or cobbled together from various other parrots they have run across. It really is no wonder that people like Obama, Clinton, Sanders, Trump etc are able to rise to the levels they do. It is terrifying, but not surprising.

[Rhywun]

The Left has been whipped into a frenzy over Israel for so long that it really is a "no brainer" to go there every time.

[juris imprudent]

Not parrots - howler monkeys.

[Jerryskids]

I blame the British and the French.

Same as with Africa, artificial national boundaries imposed on a tribal society only stay in place as long as you've got somebody to enforce them.

[Rhywun]

The major Arab countries remaining intact are Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia. In the absence of the United States they have been compelled to face various adversities and challenges at home and abroad on their own [...]

Good.

[Harun]

Egypt has been intact for thousands of years. Its a natural polity.

[Rhywun]

Agreed. My point is we should stop throwing money at them, and the others too.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Obamacare Is on the Back Burner in Election

http://www.bloombergview.com/a.....n-election

[PapayaSF]

Muhammad is to blame for ISIS. He wrote their operations manual, which they are following precisely. And 38% of Muslim-Americans say Islamic State (ISIS) beliefs are Islamic or correct.

[Suthenboy]

To be fair, Mo didn't invent that shit out of thin air. Islam is a product of the culture there. They were doing all the same stuff for thousands of years before that pos came along.

[AlmightyJB]

Not to mention, most of what he wrote in the Koran he plagerized from the Bible. Same basic culture.

[Sevo]

I'd suggest "Lost Christianities" (Ehrman)
What we call "the bible" didn't exist until the Council of Carthage (~AD420) when a bunch of folks got together and picked from all the effluvia to decide what they imagined was "scripture", and therefore what could be read in the church; much turf-war precedes and ensues, since 'god' didn't tell 'em.
But, yeah, the old and new Testaments and the Koran reflect and co-opt what the ME villagers and nomads did and didn't do (Pigs dirty? You bet. Shell fish ditto? Yep, warm water. My tribe good, your's bad? Why did you ask?)

[JNYC]

Fair enough but Mo created the final synthesis to rationalize his atrocities. He was a military and political leader who united the Arab tribes in conquest and plunder. He drew on local customs for inspiration but the final product is his.

[Los Doyers]

About 2 1/2 hours left to go on muh prime rib. Gonna do low and slow at 250, then blast with 500 for 10 minutes for a nice crust. There is red wine, assorted vegetables and herbs, and some beef bones in the pan beneath it simmering together for a nice jus as well. I also gave it a heavy salting and let it sit uncovered in the fridge since Thursday.

[Playa Manhattan.]

Easter ended a few hours ago.

[Los Doyers]

Maybe on white people time

[AlmightyJB]

That's going to be delicious

[Playa Manhattan.]

I told him how to make it, and he went behind my back to Serious Eats.

I make the best prime rib on the planet. I spent 9 years perfecting it.

[Chumby]

You marinate your prime rib for nine years? That is dedication.

[Playa Manhattan.]

I don't marinate prime rib at all. That's a crime against nature.

[AlmightyJB]

You smoke yours?

[Playa Manhattan.]

I do smoke with applewood for certain meals, but usually not. Just dry roasted in the oven.

[Los Doyers]

Rather, he linked me over to Serious Eats.

[GILMORE?]

For people more-interested in Weiss' book and the history of ISIS vis a vis the Syrian revolution.... here's a ~30m talk he had @ the Carnegie Council on the subject. Some interesting bits there.

Here's a longer version (over an hour) where he talks at greater length about his experience reporting in Syria,

[Mr Lizard]

And then they came for the Engineering Department

http://chronicle.com/article/D.....nts-anchor

[GILMORE?]

ytzpzvgk ? 5 days ago

Typical liberal arts major hatred and jealousy of engineering. Stalin went to a theological seminary. Lenin was a lawyer. Hitler couldn't even get into art school. Need I go on? Look at all of the terror they brought to the world

you linked to the comments, btw,

The whole "many of the Al Q terrorists were engineering majors" thing is pretty old news. I mean it was the subject of a few stories back in the early 2000s and i have mentioned it here a few times.

i don't think it means anything. it seems to be social-'scientists' trying to cobble together an interesting data set about 'terrorists' and then make some idiotic psychographic claims.

It likely has far more to do with arab/pakistani social-status issues than anything. There are also a strangely high incidence of medical doctors who end up involved in terrorism as well.

more notable is that an equally large proportion, if i recall, were poor students, and almost none ever managed to work professionally in their area of study. both of which are also probably more significant than the actual subject of their study.

[Rhywun]

"Hey, Mo here seems to know how to build some shit. Let's recruit him."

There, I just (re)wrote their paper for them.

[Mr Lizard]

Actually the article seem to lean more on the fact that terrorist types tended to take on engineering majors. Which is kinda counter intuitive because it basically takes the individual out of any splodey planing cuz thermo is kinda hard and involved (among other classes like all of the design classes...and don't even get me started on Dynamics).

Anyways the intersting thing was the talking heads in the article, and their commentary about including more social awareness in the programs...it seems like a veiled attempt to try to wrap engineering into the progressive fold.

[Chumby]

My Chem E major required 137 credits. Many of them added "core" classes because apparently engineers needed to be more well-rounded. Do I want the design for the dam to hold back water or someone that can tell me how a peasant woman living in a 16th Century Germany state could not express her lesbianism? If you got an "A" in freshman English you placed out of taking a second class unless you were an engineering major (forced to take technical writing).
Had to take three core classes spring semester senior year. When I was spent doing my engineering homework my break would consist of doing my non-engineering homework. I always thought they should ve required to take and pass through Calculus 3 to get a bachelor's degree.

[GILMORE?]

wow how much do you squat

[Chumby]

Not really sure. My exercise comes from maintaining the 90-acre woodlot on which I live. The trees, logs, snow, etc. aren't weighed after being lifted or moved.

[Playa Manhattan.]

How much does your mom weigh?

[Sevo]

"...it seems like a veiled attempt to try to wrap engineering into the progressive fold...."

Can't remember where I saw it, but next time I do, I'll grab a link; there was an article proposing exactly that; 'Those sciency folks and inguneers don't care enough about people; they need required courses in victimhood!'.

[GILMORE?]

e it basically takes the individual out of any splodey planing cuz thermo is kinda hard and involved

For the record, the majority of the people they lump under 'engineers' studied civil-engineering, electrical-engineering, or some computer-related stuff. the source study (here) is from 2007 and more words have been written *about* this thing than was actually spent on the 'study' itself.

its some academic wankery trying to tell a story out of a data set that mostly says, "people from poor asian countries don't think sociology classes will feed their village"

[Quincy.]

"Smart" person has a peace of paper telling him he's smart, yet his society offers him no opportunity to exercise his smartness. "Smart" person decides society needs to go. Mayhem ensues.

[juris imprudent]

Paging Ted Kaczynski, Dr. Kaczyski to the white courtesy phone.

[Quincy.]

Exactly.

[Playa Manhattan.]

As a dedicated beer drinker, I had limited options at brunch.

I managed to get wrecked on a champagne that actually wasn't too bad. No headache yet.

Problem is, if I eat a huge buffet brunch at noon, I get really hungry again at dinnertime. I think I've done enough damage today.

[Smilin' Joe Fission]

One more rum and coke never hurt anyone.

[Rhywun]

Speak for yourself.

[Playa Manhattan.]

I mean food. I just cracked a beer.

2 slices of prime rib, 2 omelets, 5 bacon, 2 sausage, some garlic mash, and 2 desserts.

No more food. But I'm hungry.

[Chumby]

I had some Chinese-German cuisine the other night. Thirty minutes later, I was hungry...for power!

[Los Doyers]

Chinese-German cuisine

Uh, does not compute?

[Rhywun]

I was intrigued for a second but I think it was just a set-up for the punchline.

[Playa Manhattan.]

Kung Pao Bratwurst. Copyright 2016 Playa Manhattan

[Sevo]

"...But I'm hungry."

You, sir, are a trooper.

[Playa Manhattan.]

That's how it works. If you eat that much, you're going to stretch your stomach out and it's going to want more later.

[Mr Lizard]

You gotta commit to your buzz player. If you're doing a brunch, start with Irish coffe with a half shot a Jameson. Do 2 of those, then ride out the rest of the morning on mimosas. Once you've reached local apparent noon, chug 2 bottles of water (safety water for the win) then move on to a really light beer (recommend corona). Or if you want to go for the gold, then hammer down on some red ales, or IPA's. Around 4 pm, switch to the porters to weigh you down. At 6pm start looking for pizza and a lot of water.

[Playa Manhattan.]

I had some VIP guests. No shots. This was a classy buffet at the country club.

Also, I was hamstrung by last night. My best friend just flew in from his new job in Bermuda, so I was obligated to get wrecked. I was hurting by 11pm.

[Mustang]

I spent the last two days installing my rollbar, seats, and six point harnesses in my car.

I reached an impasse, and then I decided to grab beer and see if that helped.

It did.

[Playa Manhattan.]

It always does.

[GILMORE?]

Pics please

[Palin's Buttplug]

For you TEAM RED! "libertarians" upthread, if all you have to use against Hil-Dog is the fake scandal Benghazi you better get used to saying 'Madame President'.

Even lil' Boy Gowdy has given up on that dead horse.

[Mustang]

Jesus fuck you're an imbecile.

[Rhywun]

That is lamer than his usual efforts.

[Palin's Buttplug]

An imbecile is a person who actually believe Americans give a shit whether another embassy attack was blamed on an anti-Islam video or was just standard terrorist retaliation against the USA.

Only hyper-partisan TEAM RED! imbeciles care about Benghazi.

[Mustang]

You are too stupid to insult.

[Sevo]

Naah. He's just too stupid to understand the insults.

[Chumby]

PB
Was it lead-based paint, lead in the water, or a family member purposely poisoning you?

[Sevo]

"An imbecile is a person who actually believe Americans give a shit whether another embassy attack was blamed on an anti-Islam video or was just standard terrorist retaliation against the USA"

Which is informative in that Obo and that fucking hag spent quite a bit of time expressing *their* interest in this particular theory.
But turd is too stupid to understand where his comment leads, so there's no use in educating him.

[PapayaSF]

Shorter Buttplug: "Gee, why would anyone care that Hillary and Obama knowingly lied about the cause of a terror attack, including directly to the families of the victims, in the run-up to an election?"

[InterDimentionalSpacePyrate]

PB you dirty little primate !!!

/WHACK !!!

[juris imprudent]

This is what I think of most when it comes to the Hil-dabeast.

[Mustang]

That's the first time I've actually seen that interview (I don't have a TV) and it confirms everything I've already thought.

[PapayaSF]

But remember, it's Trump who's supposed to be the dangerous one....

[Chumby]

PB
Only four dead on her watch when it was her responsibility while she was cashing the check.
Which Democratic Party Senator went all in and supported the invasion of Iraq again?

[DesigNate]

You are one sick fuck Shrike.

[The Late P Brooks]

The whole "many of the Al Q terrorists were engineering majors" thing is pretty old news.

I think that study is an excellent illustration of "correlation =/= causation".

I certainly do not believe the study of engineering ever turned anybody into a terrorist; it might have made him a more effective terrorist, however.

[Mustang]

My first year of engineering taught me that I am not engineer material and redirected me to security and intelligence. That's kind of the same thing.

[AlmightyJB]

Exposives, electronics, radio. Yeah, I'd say.

[Steve Bumgardner]

I blame Muhammad.

[Quincy.]

What, the dude that runs the dry-cleaning outfit down the road? That's just mean.

[AlmightyJB]

I blame Muhammad's mom.

[Rhywun]

All I know is any attempt to go back in time and "fix" it is bound to backfire.

[Notorious UGCC]

Yeah, the time-traveller might accidentally dictate the...uh, let's not finish that thought.

[JNYC]

And his fictitious God who told him to do those things.

[Quincy.]

Back to the Future IV: Meccaing a Mess of the Franchise.

[Quincy.]

That was in response to Rhywun.

[DEG]

What if Charles Schultz drew H. P. Lovecraft?

Julien Bazinet imagines what it would look like if Charles Schulz (November 26, 1922 ? February 12, 2000) drew H.P. Lovecraft (August 20, 1890 ? March 15, 1937).

[Sevo]

Somebody should'a read more H.P. Lovecraft.

[Rhywun]

I was looking for my favorite Nameless Dread panel (Family Circus meets Lovecraft) when I came across this.

[Chumby]

There is a trailer for At The Mountains of Madness that Del Toro did a few years back. Looked decent. Movie wasn't greenlighted.

[Notorious UGCC]

Lovecraft gives new meaning to the term "sleeping with the fishes," lol

greatoldones.horrorfrombeyondspaceandtime.com

[Irish ?s Lauren Southern]

"Lovecraft gives new meaning to the term "sleeping with the fishes,""

hahahahhahahaha

[JeremyR]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Mohammed. ISIS is pretty much just living up to his example.

[JNYC]

Indeed!

[Agile Cyborg]

Paradise is responsible...
Mirages shimmering on the stark vistas of simple imaginations
hot and sweaty visions of boys and girls glancing at rainbows
so lovely hidden in the stars twinkling innocently under a canopy of
sandy villages hiding murder masters knowingly capturing the soft dreams
cascading from tall fantasy mountains swept from the minds of the young breathing deeply with
freedoms and heavens
bustling with angels fluttering with giving wings
and then barbarism and its alligator teethed gods enter the soft fields
of the naive and their folded hands and bent knees
so paradise bristling with magic hells is the reason, brother

[Agile Cyborg]

Clever magicians bend the minds of the lost
by offering alternative existence rewards because
death will always be the greatest key...

Oddly, this is how our own government bends the will of the innocent and naive
to supplant their gardens under the tools of the generals...

All fields of war are generally similar no matter the causes or defenses or gods...
recruit the nubile brains with tricks that offer redemption. All war is redemption for the wanderers so ready to employed as
living lava hells.

This is why free society must guard not only against the fucking hell demons without but also against the hell demons
that spin weaves within strangling the fucking rights that define distinct liberty and freedom.

[Agile Cyborg]

Paradise of the gods
dreams smashing the veils of angels
obedience earning majesties and kingdoms
paid by the blood of a skull bleeding into a trash-fucked
gutter, limbs twitching, victims heaving, air thick with murder
Paradise of the gods
dying shuddering and shattered with fading memories of loves
Paradise of the gods
spilling red rivers dribbling into the concrete streets while the
exploded disciples lie looking up at the sun and then nothing
Paradise of the gods

[Agile Cyborg]

pray that paradise stops infecting the mind of the futures of which exist many

[Agile Cyborg]

if one refuses to question the earth and its ways
he is a soft green small plant called a clover
ask questions of the sun and the forest
ask questions of concrete suns and the metal forests
ask questions of the windows on your walls
ask questions of why you believe in certain paradises and gods and
flags
ask... but remember that reality is mostly perfect but never perfect and always presented by many fucking projectors.

[Agile Cyborg]

peaceful rivers spill
dreams over the cliffs
lost in the memories
of ancient times

swathed in ribbons
of colors the valleys
dance under the mists
of tomorrows seeking
planets underneath
this today

[Agile Cyborg]

Happiness is a sweet wind whistling through the oaks and feeling the laughter of giant bark monsters careening under the weight of the storms caress my arms and face.

What is love?
noticing her time wrinkles and seeing angel wings fluttering glitter
What is love?
evaporation of spaceships and planets and time
What is love?
hoping to last gaze her twinkle
What is last gaze?
Last look when it all tumbles down like an earthquake of fucking shit and before it all caves in forever into nothing you capture her last twinkle and die

[Agile Cyborg]

You turn time so fucking quick man
from 15 to 45 in mere lasers
sort of despairing
but soar like an eagle and live every goddamn moment so peaceful and lovely

[Agile Cyborg]

Fuck paradise
Praise peace

[Agile Cyborg]

also, call your mother or father and tell them you love them
and bring them something nice to eat
and hug them with your rainbow

[ammythomas8090]

Before I saw the bank draft which had said $9426 , I didnt believe that...my... brother woz like actualy earning money part-time at there labtop. . there uncles cousin has done this 4 less than fifteen months and by now repaid the dept on there place and got a great new Mini Cooper . read the full info here ...

Clik This Link inYour Browser??
? ? ? ? http://www.MaxPost30.com

[JNYC]

"Who To Blame For the Rise of ISIS?"

Mohammad. Now can we move on with our lives?

[prurisejun]

Part time and full time free online jobs ,my unkel makes $45 /hr on the computer . He has been out of work for 4 months but last month her pay check was $4510 just working on the computer for a few hours.
Its original & new site...visited Here...AXC0116

==== http://www.workprospects.com

[OneOut]

Tomato