North Korea

Russian, Chinese Foreign Ministers Complain About North Korea Missile Tests, U.S. Korean Missile Defense System

Dealing with the consequences of China's interventionist foreign policy.

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Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi met a day after North Korea test-fired two short-range ballistic missiles into the sea as part of the hermetic Communist dictatorship's latest round of nuclear sabre-rattling.

"We do not recognize the nuclear status of the DPRK," Wang said at a press briefing, via translator, as reported by Reuters. "We should block further development of nuclear weapons in the DPRK," he said later. The two urged North Korea to return to six party talks—involving the U.S., China, Rusia, Germany, France, and the U.K, and called the missile test "irresponsible."

The two also criticized U.S. maneuvers on the Korean peninsula. "The deployment of this U.S. missile system far exceeds the actual defense needs of the (Korean) peninsula," said Wang, and "will harm the strategic balance of power in the region, possibly leading to a new arms race."

China's meddling foreign policy has placed it in the position of having a client state next door that behaves in a way that invites military buildups in the region. While Wang expressed concern about a renewed arms race, he acknowledged last month that the decision on the missile system ultimately fell on South Korea, where it was being deployed and that China understood South Korea and the U.S.'s desire to ensure their defenses. China appears to have imposed a new round of sanctions on North Korea unilaterally earlier this week.

China says it's concerned the missile system, reportedly consisting of Terminal High Altitude Area Defense batteries, reaches deep into its interior. President Obama called on an "Asia pivot" back in 2011, looking to challenge China in the Pacific theater. Since then, China's foreign policy in the region has only become more aggressive.

At last night's Republican debate, John Kasich suggested the U.S. should put "heat" on China to "work in North Korea" to get rid of the country's dictator. China's Korea policy did a good job on its own of doing that. Donald Trump, the Republican frontrunner, bemoaned that the U.S. was protecting South Korea without getting paid for it.

"Every time this maniac from North Korea does anything, we immediately send our ships," Trump said. "We get virtually nothing."

Not quite. While the U.S.'s military defense commitments around the world have long outlived any geopolitical or diplomatic usefulness they may have had, they continue to fuel a domestic military industry that supports millions of jobs, an underlying, if often unspoken, reason for bipartisan support for increased "defense" spending and military intervention irrespective of the particular sectarian rhetoric.

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  1. Send them some food, then. That’s what they want.

    1. Because nothing discourages undesired behavior like rewarding it.

      Or were you being sarcastic?

      1. Meh. Our Cuba policy has been a failure.

        Send them some food with pictures of what civilization looks like south of their border. Be sure to include hi-def photos of supermarket aisles, housing developments and restaurants. Their insane regime will crumble as quickly as the Soviet Union did once exposed to civilization writ large.

        1. Does the US have sanctions against NK the way they did against Cuba? It’s my understanding that NK are the ones who don’t want foreign goods or culture mucking up their juche perfection.

          1. Apart from the fact that they’re still, technically, at war with South Korea, I don’t think so.

          2. Here’s a list of our government sanctions against the Norks.

            That’s Treasury’s.

            There’s also the North Korean Human Rights Act of 2004 That green lights humanitarian aid and efforts to expand freedom in that shithole.

        2. The North Koreans already KNOW how shitty it is compared to South Korea, as everyone who makes it OUT of North Korea states. The reason we think otherwise is the act that every North Korean puts on whenever a camera is nearby. They know the country is shit, but are paralyzed with fear.

        3. They simply repackage the food and relabel it as from the Great Leader.

      2. Fist? Sarcastic? Never.

    2. If only there were some magic way to make more food. Some mystical process of doing things that cause it to grow from the ground or something. It is sad that you can only get it from the evil capitalist countries that stole all the magic food makers

      1. Some, weird, complex ritual that involves burying random ceremonial shit, spreading some literal shit ritualistically over the ground, and setting up some ritualistic human-shaped straw bags to watch over the field. If done properly, The Ritual causes food to appear.

        1. Electrolytes are involved.

          1. They’re what plants crave.

            1. Don’t forget the sun and rain gods.

      2. They just need a supply of Brawndo

      3. Just send them 3D printers and cytotoxic. He’ll fix everything. I’ll even pay for his one way ticket.

  2. China’s meddling foreign policy

    If only our FP were so “meddling”!

    1. I posted that earlier. I’m sure reason will have a headline for it soon. They’ve come close to their Trump quota for the day and will be looking for material. Right?

      1. I thought a nut punch or two was left on the schedule.

        1. Oh I’m not done for the day.

          1. 🙁

            *grabs armored jock strap*

      2. Didn’t see it, sorry. I get distracted by real work…. 🙂

        1. I,don’t have a monopoly on links.

      3. “They’ve come close to their Trump quota for the day and will be looking for material. Right?”
        Not a chance: TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP,
        All TRUMP, all the time! Reason.com TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP,

      4. I dunno. I’d like to take it at face value that they really are building a case, but I can’t shake the suspicion that they are laying the groundwork to say “Look, we went at this really hard. Turned over every rock, hell, even gave her IT guy immunity. There really isn’t enough here to indict.”

  3. “China says it’s concerned the missile system, reportedly consisting of Terminal High Altitude Area Defense batteries, reaches deep into its interior.”

    Why is China concerned about somebody else’s defensive weapons?

    1. A weapon that is tactically defensive can be strategically offensive. Imagine for example if during the cold war if the Russians managed to build a perfect missile defense system, that would render our ICBMs useless, and we couldn’t. It would end up making a possible nuclear exchange very one-sided.

      1. So that means they want to attack and are mad that we might foil them? They can make a defensive system of their own, then.

        Better shield rattling than sword rattling.

      2. A weapon that is tactically defensive can be strategically offensive.

        Yep. The same can be said for biological weapons. The same facilities, materiel, and expertise required to run a top-notch lab for developing cures and vaccines can, ostensibly, also be used to create devastating pathogens for weaponized use as well. During the height of the Cold War, it wasn’t just nuclear weapons that the superpowers were building – there was plenty of chem/bio-weapon development that went on as well, under the guise of defensive and preventative measures. Biohazard by Ken Alibek is a pretty good book on the Soviet side of that undertaking.

    2. A ballistic missile is a surface to surface missile, in other words it is a way to lob bombs at someone. It is not a defensive weapon like a shield..

      1. I don’t think Terminal High Altitude Area Defense batteries, are ballistic missiles.

        1. Woops, my bad, I just fixed on the first paragraph where they called them ballistic missiles. You sir, have a strong point.

  4. OK, China. Want to swing big dick around the neighborhood….here is your chance.

    A little different than shoving your navy in the Filipino’s faces, hmmmm?

    1. China and big dick in the same sentence?

      There’s a first time for everything, I suppose.

      1. Look I’m sure China’s hands are big.

    2. So when Hillary is president will it be waving her tits around or meat curtains?

  5. Donald Trump, the Republican frontrunner, bemoaned that the U.S. was protecting South Korea without getting paid for it.

    OMG HE’S ANOTHER HITLER!!

    1. Oh you just wait it’s only March, and the media is comparing Trump to Hitler they’re just getting started. This is going to end up being the dumbest election in U.S. history, and not because of the crazy shit Trump sometimes says, but because of the crazy attacks the media is going to come up with against him.

      1. The left, the BLM crowd, etc. will go completely nuts. I fully expect violence from them, if not deadly violence. Which, of course, will do for Trump what the ’68 violence did for Nixon.

        1. Or Trump’s supporters will be violent (as they already have been) and Hillary will win the election because she’ll be seen as the anti-violence stability candidate.

          1. And then she can support bombing more countries

          2. The possibility of both groups erupting into violence exists. Not sure if even that could get people enthusiastic about Hillary though

            Is that the future though? Two groups of jackbooted fascists fighting each other? It might be.

          3. I don’t see that happening. Many people are ticked off at protesters. If they try to disrupt Trump events, that wins him more votes than it loses him. That said, if he continues to say things that seem to encourage violence, that might backfire, but maybe not. Most of his supporters won’t care.

        2. The left will certainly go nuts. They’ll react violently, blame an entire race of people for all their problems, demand totalitarian solutions to everything all while calling the other side nazis.

          The Trump phenomenon seems to be a reaction to decades of this kind of nonsense, and I wonder if eventually they’ll evolve into a mirror image of the exact same thing. They’re not there yet, but I could see it happening.

          Sort of like how the SJWs and Stormfront are exactly the same, they just hate a different race of people.

    2. “Schicklgruber” is “Drumpf” in Austrian, but of course you already knew that.

      1. Austrians speak German.

        1. Shhh, you never interrupt good hompling…

          1. I know that, but was referring ironically to Our President’s remark that one time, but you perhaps were too slow to catch it. I do my best, but some folks are just thick.

            1. Too smrt for school, man.

              1. Some schools, anyway.

  6. “Not quite. While the U.S.’s military defense commitments around the world have long outlived any geopolitical or diplomatic usefulness they may have had, they continue to fuel a domestic military industry that supports millions of jobs, an underlying, if often unspoken, reason for bipartisan support for increased ‘defense’ spending and military intervention irrespective of the particular sectarian rhetoric.”

    Wait, did Reason just defend military-industrial stimulus spending in a comment against Donald Trump’s denouncing of such a thing on the grounds of artificial job creation?? Did I just stumble into an alternate dimension where Reason is pro-military and pro-stimulus, or is the desire to antagonize Trump really that enticing??

    1. I think it is clear Ed is shaking a fist at the cronyist aspects of the defense industry, and bi-partisan “my district has ____ in it” support of same.

    2. TRUMP IS WARPING MINDS

  7. how has that dynasty not imploded by now?

    1. Must be something in the air

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..67341.html

      According to multiple reports from defectors, visitors and experts, North Korea either has no law against the sale and consumption of weed, or it has a law that is largely unenforced.

      Just last week, a 29-year-old freelance writer from England wrote an account on his blog explaining how he purchased a grocery bag full of weed at an indoor market in rural North Korea and smoked it with impunity both at outdoor parks and monuments, as well as in restaurants and bars.

      1. My God, It’s Full of Shake

      2. Yup. I think methamphetamines are also widely available as well.

      3. “According to multiple reports from defectors, visitors and experts, North Korea either has no law against the sale and consumption of weed, or it has a law that is largely unenforced.”

        Ribertarian moment

      4. Its a libertarian paradise!

      5. See! That’s why we can’t legalize it here. Do you think it would be legal there if it were harmless? No, it’s a communist mind-control drug.

      6. “A bag of Doritos and a Natty Dread CD to the one who brings the head of Kim Jong-un!”

        1. Weed they have, Doritos are punishable by death

  8. “China’s meddling foreign policy…”

    Was this said with irony? It must have been said with irony.

  9. …Dealing with the consequences of China’s interventionist foreign policy

    China’s meddling foreign policy has placed it in the position of having a client state next door that behaves in a way that invites military buildups in the region.

    We’re supposed to understand that the Norks missile-flailing is the fault of the Chinese? Really?

    This whole piece is a case study in the complete incoherence of the people who use the term “interventionist” like a fucking paintbrush to characterize anything and everything, and pretend there’s some magical causation-chain between ‘anything X country does’ and the subsequent behaviors of everyone else in the world. Everything is “blowback”, and somehow there’s always this fantasy alternate-universe where the Norks *would actually be behaving nicely* if it weren’t for something the Chinese or Americans did or didn’t do.

    The chinese haven’t fired a shot in anger in the last…what, 50+ years? last i checked. I’m sure there are some exceptions with SEA civil wars and regional skirmishes …. but to try and tar Chinese behavior as “interventionist” is just a retarded dilution of that word to mean whatever you want whenever its convenient.

    It always leads to the obvious question of, “who/what is “non-interventionist”, then? because all foreign relations end up being examples of one form of “meddling” or another

    1. It’s pronounced “meddring”.

      1. its the foreign-relations version of this

    2. “””The chinese haven’t fired a shot in anger in the last…what, 50+ years?”””

      More like 40 years, they tried to invade Vietnam in the 70’s

      And then there is the whole Tibet thing

      1. they had some shootups with Uighurs, Tibet, something to do with Baluchistan, etc.

        my point remains. they might passively have their own sino-version of the Monroe Doctrine, but its not like they are drone-killing people all over the fucking planet and pretending to be a force for “stability”

        1. God, I hate Uighurs. Especially Eminem.

            1. whoops, wrong place

      2. Those weren’t shots fired in Anger, but with smiles.

        I almost busted Gilmore by mentioning the Sino-Indian war, but Gilmore is technically correct at “50+” years.

        1. I don’t see how the Sino-Indian War could be blamed on China. Yes, the Chinese technically began the conflict with two simultaneous strikes, but the Indians had been poking their supposed ‘ally’ in the eyes, politically and military for years.

          1. I didn’t say China’s actions were the cause of that war. I’m merely saying that they fired shots in anger, like in a war-war. I reacted when I saw the “50+” years from Gilmore and my first thought was “waaaait a second”. Sometimes I forget it’s not 2005 any more.

            1. the specific thing i had in my mind was the War Nerd’s reference to the China/India shootup in the 1960s

              “But look at what happened the one time they tried fighting a real army: the India-China war of 1962. India decided that its new status as world power required it to grab a few square miles of Himalayan wasteland from China. They worked themselves up into a war frenzy and attacked the Chinese. The Chinese, who don’t do woofing, made no boasts, tried smoothing things over, and when that failed, quietly flattened the Indian army. It was a rout: mustaches and swaggersticks sprinting downhill so fast the snow hadn’t yet melted on their helmets when they hit 120-degree Delhi. After that, the Indians decided they’d stick to picking on someone less than half their own size: the Pakistanis.”

              I also know the Chinese have had beef with the Vietnamese for like 1000 years, but the point was about how much of a stretch it was to characterize them as particularly ‘interventiony’ by any reasonable historical standard.

              1. Historically, the Chinese have mostly just ‘vanted to be alone’.

                1. I would modify that slightly by changing it to “primarily concerned with its own territorial integrity and perpetuation of its nation-hood”… the latter of which is still a very-young thing, really.

                  I think the Chinese self-concept has always been of a fragmented country trying to hold itself together while outside forces try and tear it apart.

                  And also trying to impose a sense of “Chinese-ness” on all the various non-Han-Chinese to ensure that there is never any attempt at internal regional fragmentation. (which i suppose may be a Mao thing – ‘unifying’ china via forced cultural homogeneity)

                  I think your “left alone” thing is right…. as the idea of being an “expansionary empire” is just inconsistent with all of their own historical self-perception – even when that is *exactly* what they may sometimes be doing.

                  They would see their own expansion into the South China sea, for instance, as some kind of buffer-zone issue, rather than ‘sphere of influence’, grab of power.

                  I expect a lot of this is changing, and there are some Chinese kissinger-esque types publishing books about the need for a Sino-centric Monroe Doctrine for the East. But its not like i expect Ed to be reading that stuff and summarizing them for us. Hand waving about “interventionism” is the best we’ll get.

              2. That descriptive passage, BTW is solid frickin’ gold. hey worked themselves up into a war frenzy and attacked the Chinese. The Chinese, who don’t do woofing, made no boasts, tried smoothing things over, and when that failed, quietly flattened the Indian army. It was a rout: mustaches and swaggersticks sprinting downhill so fast the snow hadn’t yet melted on their helmets when they hit 120-degree Delhi.

                1. read all The War Nerd’s stuff. Even when he’s wrong, he’s wildly entertaining.

  10. OT: There’s only one reaction to this level of idiocy that matters to me.

    It was my son calling me yesterday around lunchtime to tell me he’s fine but that he wishes the teachers who wanted to be were armed.

      1. “so. how many overtime hours you think we’ll manage?”

        1. What was the last freakout that actually caused a body count? Too lazy to google.

    1. The principal called police because the man waved a gun as he walked away toward Golden West High School.

      As he walked away towards it? I see the communication failures are ongoing. No wonder the entire school system was confused.

      1. He walked away from River Bend Elementary (its between Golden Oak Elementary and Valley Oak Middle School) and toward Golden West High School. That’s across the elementary and middle school track and playgrounds and toward the GW pool and tennis courts. But I don’t know how he would have walked that way since River Bend is completely fenced off from the other schools since the kids there are a little unhinged, as it’s the “alternative school” where problem kids are sent after they get in too many fights.

        Most likely, it’s the nutball secretary at that school panicking when a parent she yelled at decided to yell back and pull a cellphone out at the same time, which she would mistake for a gun. She went nuts on me more than once when I used to coach the Golden Oak kids in track and I would occasionally make a kid or two puke by pushing them in practice.

        Even money says it was pants-shitting by someone in authority and there never was a man with a gun to begin with.

  11. Mr Kim over here just loves slapping his dick in the face of the rest of the world.

    Why?

    Because that Genius GWB showed all of the world leaders that if you don’t have a Nuke, there’s nothing stopping us from hanging you on Youtube.com.

    And now, North Korea is fully functional and Iran is rushing for a bomb.

    The only way to guarantee 100% piece with Iran is when Iran tests its first Nuclear Device in the Indian Ocean or in a desert. Until, then, they run the risk of getting Hung on Youtube.com and having America establish a Suni government in a Shia country.

    1. You are very interesting and insightful.

    2. We were pefectly happy with you gone.

    3. Because that Genius GWB showed all of the world leaders that if you don’t have a Nuke, there’s nothing stopping us from hanging you on Youtube.com.

      This is true. No one even had heard of nuclear weapons until GWB got into office. He was a true innovator and one of the most powerful, brilliant diplomatic chess-playing presidents that ever existed. To this day, we still feel the effects of GWB, and not even Obama– wise and omniscient as he is– has been unable to lift the mysterious veil of darkness placed upon the world.

      Our first and primary mistake with GWB was continuously underestimating his intellectual talent as a true foreign policy gamesman. I blame the Daily Show.

    4. “Because that Genius GWB showed all of the world leaders that if you don’t have a Nuke, there’s nothing stopping us from hanging you on Youtube.com.

      And now, North Korea is fully functional and Iran is rushing for a bomb.”

      Pakistan and India had nukes decades ago, so the issue of nuclear proliferation predates Bush.

      And the Iranians were trying to develop enrichment plants back in the ’90s.

      1. No it doesn’t. No one had nuclear weapons before GWB. I mean, sure the U.S. and Russia had one or two, but it hadn’t proliferated until GWB made it happen. Not even Obama can stop the proliferation now.

    5. You’re a stupid piece of shit who should stay gone.

    6. When GWB went on TV and named Iran/Iraq/North Korea as access of evil and hung the Iraqi president on youtube.com, much to everyone’s surprise North Korea upgraded and Iran is trying to get a functional bomb.

      I’m not talking about the rest of the world. I’m discussion the so-called “axis-of-evil”.

      As for Pakistan, you know that place. That friend of ours. You know them.

      We destroyed Afghanistan and blew up a few tens in the desert at the tune of $1Trillion Dollars.
      Why? Because Bin Laden was there.
      So, where did we really find Bin Laden? In a country in which we CAN’T DO SHIT because they have nukes.

      But please, keep calling me stupid.

      1. But please, keep calling me stupid.

        Considering the fact that North Korean has had a nuclear weapons program since the early 1980s and have been dodging the IAEA for decades before Bush was in office because, shocker, they’ve been trying to develop nukes…

        Yes, you are profoundly stupid.

    7. Holy shit, this is the most painfully stupid attempt at foreign policy analysis I’ve seen in years. Yes Bowie, no one in the world even thought about nuclear weapons as a deterrent to U.S. intervention until The Great Satan George W. Bush was in office.

      This is your mind on moronic bipartisan politics people, utterly incapable of thinking rationally, completely ignorant of history, and utterly obsessed with lying and twisting evidence to fit a pre-determined conclusion.

  12. FWIW – i think the most provocative act of the last few decades have not been to do with Nuclear Weapons, a la Iran/Pakistan/North Korea…

    …but rather China’s demonstration of the ability to shoot down satellites.. or their capability to take out aircraft carriers. (though i’ve heard mixed arguments about the latter’s real capability)

    Because that’s an actual indication of what they could do to cripple US conventional forces if they felt threatened. Its more significant than NK lobbing missiles into the ocean because it reveals a far more practical deterrent = force that people can/would actually *use* in a real-world situation….. unlike nukes, which really aren’t made to be used in a practical sense….. so much as made to be possessed, and simply argued about in the UN. Nukes are really more of a diplomatic weapon in a sense.

    1. Nukes are really more of a diplomatic weapon in a sense.

      The problem with the NORKS having them is no one knows just how crazy the NORKs are. If the regime believes its own propaganda, living gods and all, there’s a fear they might actually use one. Now, realistically, we’d lose, what, New York and DC before we’d level the entire country? Hmm…

      1. They might be able to hit Alaska if they somehow magically advance their technological capabilities in the next decade.

        And even then, whatever it was would probably be shot down before it made it halfway

        The greatest risk they actually present is to their neighbors…. who fear that NK will implode and millions of refugees will become dependent on them. The Chinese and SK keep the Norks on life support like a crazy uncle locked in the attic.

  13. “We do not recognize the nuclear status of the DPRK,” Wang said at a press briefing, via translator, as reported by Reuters.

    Well let me introduce you then!

  14. Ed once again demonstrates why he has the title of “Reason’s Best Alt Textist.”

    1. Would that his compatriots give even half the effort!

      *glares at rest of Reason staff*

  15. OT: I’m dialing back some of my skepticism on the Libertarian Moment.

    Inslee orders special session, vetoes 27 bills to spur action

    OLYMPIA ? Lawmakers this legislative session had two fundamental responsibilities: Come up with a full plan for K-12 education funding and pass a supplemental budget.

    But as legislators and lobbyists filtered out of the Capitol building Thursday night ? the last day of the 60-day session ? there was no budget agreement in sight and lawmakers weeks ago had decided to largely defer action on the education money problem.

    Instead, Gov. Jay Inslee called a special 30-day overtime session, which began Thursday night, and after 10 p.m., vetoed 27 bills ? making good on a threat to reject various pieces of legislation if lawmakers failed to compromise on the big picture.

    I’m wondering how much Inslee’s hand was shaking when he vetoed these. I mean, a Blue Governor of a Blue State… vetoing Bills without regard to content. The word “no” isn’t usually even in the vocabulary.

    http://www.seattletimes.com/se…..ing-bills/

  16. It was Lewandowski and not the security guard.

    new vid shows him reaching for Michelle.

    1. OMG ITS LIKE THE ZAPRUDER FILM WE’RE THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS PEOPLE

      1. So Trump was on the grassy knoll!!!!!!!

    2. That does look like him. On the other hand, I didn’t see a lot of contact, and nothing that looked way out of line for getting somebody through a crowded scrum, either.

    3. I watched it 3 times, I have no idea what I’m looking at. There’s an assault in there?

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