Donald Trump

Is There a Good Outcome for the 2016 Election? Probably Not.

Break out the tequila.

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As it becomes increasingly likely that Donald Trump will be the GOP nominee, some party leaders are throwing up their hands.

"The one argument for libertarians to vote Republican that still remains is the Supreme Court. Other than that, I really can't see very much endearing for a libertarian in these Republican candidates," said Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky) at the International Students for Liberty Conference.

Click below to watch that interview:

Reason also spoke with Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) who despite reservations is supporting Ted Cruz because he is a "person I can work with and he's a person I can persuade." Amash also pointd to Trump as the biggest threat to limited government of all the candidates.

Click below to watch:

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  1. The only good outcome is if/when Hillary goes away forever.

    1. Best case. Everyone gets indicted.

    2. Never Hillary!

      Hillary for Prison 2016!

  2. Reason also spoke with Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) who despite reservations is supporting Ted Cruz because he is a “person I can work with and he’s a person I can persuade.” Amash also pointd to Trump as the biggest threat to limited government of all the candidates.

    Not to be redundant, but there is no way I will vote for Cruz. I’m making a guess here that once Cruz becomes POTUS he will have totally abandoned even the slightest remnants of being a pro-liberty guy. Most of it has already slipped away and once he gets power, he’ll be just as bad as Rubio or Bush would be.

    1. I expect he will be as bad as the guy I’m voting for (as of now) — Trump.

      They are all bad. I’m voting against Hillary and for entertainment.

      1. Trump will be a terrible president, but the establishment and the media needs to be given a big “fuck you”. Voting for Trump will be like a giant middle finger to them.

        1. The good news is that the voters are finally starting to rebel against the political elite class. The bad news is that they’ve decided to smash store windows and light cars on fire instead of voting for Rand Paul.

          1. I like to stay positive, and it’s a good sign the voters are telling the political class to screw themselves. It’s a shame they didn’t support Rand, but the guy ran a pretty bad campaign. He was far too quiet, and soft-spoken, and tried too hard not to alienate any voters. The end result was he wasn’t able stand out much, and so the protest vote went to Trump.

            The good news is Rand is a young guy, and I doubt this was his last presidential run.

            1. My impression was he didn’t really have the talents to make a national run, and is more of an asset as an ideological force in the Senate and on the Hill.

              Then again, I thought Rubio was talented at first. Now I think he sounds like that kid in seventh grade who was always jawing everyone, then cried to the teacher when someone popped him in the nose.

          2. Rand will run against President Trump in 2020.

        2. I agree the tears wpyld be yummy and never ending but your not “supposed” to vote out of spite.

          https://youtu.be/G2VqqGSuayc

          1. That is a very good video.

            1. I like her but I’m not following her advice. I am picking my candidate out of spite.

              1. I’m not going to, but it is tempting.

            2. It’s a short-sighted stupid video.

              The problem is coercive monopolistic government. When there’s only one way to do things, because a monopolistic coercive government can’t allow alternatives, then people have to jump in the battle for control of some smidgeon of said government or always be an outsider who others pick on.

              Almost all the people I know would really rather leave everybody else alone, but coercive monopolistic government doesn’t allow that, and so everybody ends up working the system to get themselves as many bennies as possible at everybody else’s expense, because the alternative is to be everybody else’s sucker; everybody knows that everybody else is doing the same thing, and those that don’t will lose to everybody else.

              1. It’s a short-sighted stupid video.

                Well yeah. But it is a start on the way to deeper analysis. And it gives a feel for what the “flyovers” (people who don’t matter) are thinking.

          2. God damn that’s difficult to watch, even if I agree with her 100%. What makes people think that their annoying little speeches are of interest to anyone else.

            1. Money for nothing, chicks for free

              1. Can I skip the MTV?

          3. She’s spot on. The out of control PC bullshit is starting to see the backlash that many of us have seen coming for a long time. You keep marginalizing people and calling them bigots and racists long enough, and then you don’t stop there, but you start to actually try to steal from those people and persecute them through the heavy hand of government, those people are going to get really, really pissed off and look for a way to punch you in the mouth.

            1. I’ve seen videos of people on campus shouting down SJWs when they start their bullshit by chanting “Trump Trump Trump!”

              This election has nothing to do with man, he’s become almost a symbol, a way to lash out at SJW bullies.

              This is why no attack on Trump hurts him in the polls, because the people supporting him don’t care about the man, or the issues, they just want to tell SJWs to fuck off.

              1. Yup. And the political class is so far oblivious. Mittens to speak out against Trump? That should be good for at least another 1% and maybe 5% or more for Trump.

                Nice to see the elite panicking though. That is usually the prelude to a rout.

                1. They’re astonishingly out of touch (the media). Every new article I read on WaPo, or NYT, or CNN or wherever, they seem totally oblivious to what is going on. They have on blinders and cannot see outside their little box, at all. The comments on the sites always point this out to them, but they either don’t read comments on their own stories, or they don’t understand what is being clearly pointed out to them.

                  1. I think they see what is happening. But they can’t change because of social obligations and signaling.

                    Are they going to tell the SJWs, “You are nuts.” Of course not. They are an institution. They have a profitability (well income really) model. And it is still working.

                    Just like IBM didn’t want the PC (heh). It would eat into their minicomputer business.

                  2. They understand they are just in denial.

                    They are hoping that we don’t see it for what it is and they keep trying to direct our attention away from the truth.

                    Most Reason commenters see it for what it is but elsewhere not so much.

              2. I think you’re exactly right.

        3. The establishment both loathes and fears Cruz. He is a strict Constitutionalist in his convictions.

          As President Carter said about Trump is true. He is malleable.

          Voting for Cruz is a much larger middle finger than Trump.

          1. Voting for Trump only shows a short stubby middle finger to the man.

            Cruz has big hands and a big middle finger.

            If you are going to vote to shoot the finger at the man vote Cruz !

            Cruz 2016 ! The big middle finger!

            1. That’s pretty good.

        4. Trump will be a terrible president, but the establishment and the media needs to be given a big “fuck you”.

          I also hope that he sticks it to the federal apparatchiks. He may.

          And he actually said he would put guys like Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court.

      2. Trump/Biden 2016: Vote for Lulztopia!

        1. Holy shit, it takes one sick mofo to imagine that up!

        2. Oh there will still be plenty of Lolz. It will be a contest to see who can out stupid one another Trump or the media trying to discredit him.

          I still don’t know what was dumber in that last debate. Trump talking about the size of his dick, or a moderator honestly asking him if he disavows the KKK, I mean does anyone honestly believe the idiot supports the Klan?

          We’re are going to achieve a new record high derp level this year.

          1. I told my Mom, 96, about the schvantz competition. She was appalled. Of course she is an FDR Democrat. But still. Sensibilities have become insensible.

          2. Morons to right of them,
            Idiots to left of them,
            Fascists in front of them
            Volley’d and thunder’d;
            Storm’d at with “I’m going to tell”,
            Boldly they rode and well,
            Into the jaws of Derp,
            Into the mouth of lol
            Rode the six hundred libertarians, all the LP could muster.

    2. I think you are probably right but the fact that he at least plays lip service indicates to me that there is least a chance he’ll be better than either of those two at least when it comes to Pax Americana. Rubio doesn’t even try to hide the fact that he’s a war monger. As I stated last night, I think Cruz still has a shot against Trump if Kasich and Rubio drop out on the 15th. That will definately happen if Rubio loses Florida and Kasich loses Ohio. Kasich should drop out now. He is the reason Trump won KY. I will probably vote for Johnson either way but out of the gop lot I would rather see Cruz.

    3. However, Cruz has done, in the senate, exactly what he said on the campaign trail. Whether he will be similarly true to his promises in the WH is another question. But he has come through more than others.

      I still don’t like the choices, but if it’s Cruz on the ticket in the general election, I’m likely to vote for him because of his record and because he seems to stand for liberty. Nonetheless, I don’t like his condescending, authoritarian voice.

      1. Cruz at the very least pays lip service to liberty, which is something none of the other candidates even pretend to do. If a libertarian was going to vote this year then Cruz seems like the one to begrudgingly support.

        Maybe Sanders, only because the Republican controlled congress will be able to block everything the idiot wants to do, which may happen to Trump too if he manages to piss off enough people.

        And Hillary of course is the absolute worst.

        1. Trump says on his “Issues” site:

          Live Free Or Die

        2. The Republican controlled Congress had just as much ability to block Obama’s stupid ideas as well as they can Bernie.

          Will they though ? They certainly didn’t with Obama so I have little hope.

          If a Dem wins though I would prefer Bernie over Hillary. If she operates in the White House as she did SecState we can expect some billion dollar contributions to the Clinton Family Slush Fund connected to her foreign policy.

          Saudi Arabia wants the US to invade Iran ? No problem. Just drop a cool billion into the Clinton Family Slush Fund and hold the US’s beer.

          Has the check cleared ?

          OK, now watch this.

    4. Cruz is the best chance there is to actually reduce the size of the federal government and move towards a constitutional limited federal government . His biggest obstacle is that the ruling class, both RINO republicans and democrats depend upon an immense federal government , its taxes , legislation and regulations for their power and wealth. As a consequence all of washington DC hates and fears Ted Cruz, because he not just posturing *as is expected) but has proven himself to be quite serious . Thus RINOs , like Romney , cannot bring themselves to support Cruz. Instead they would rather preserve their beloved bloated federal monstrosity by handing it to the democrats . If the party cannot unite behind Cruz then the democrats win either in the person of crony capitalist and lifelong liberal democrat Donnie Trump or in the person of old and ailing Hillary Clinton. Hillary is not physically attractive, speaks poorly, is sick . has no new ideas , is alienating liberal youth and is an obvious criminal . Ted Cruz would crush her.

  3. So how is this different than any other election for a libertarian? Libertarians weren’t that thrilled with McCain or Romney either.

    Same old same old.

    1. Nice to hear you finally say something sensible. Although I’m sure you’ll negate all that on your next post.

      Libertarians currently have no path to win a presidential election. Apparently, neither do socialists. The socialist guy is losing to the worst, most lowlife slimebag disgusting candidate in the history of politics.

      1. Yeah, I probably will. But thanks for noticing.

      2. There have been Republicans in the past who weren’t entirely hostile to capitalism and free markets.

        A libertarian could have supported Romney on those grounds.

        Romney was running against a Democrat who is consistently hostile to capitalism and free markets.

        Trump is openly hostile to free trade. Because capitalism and free markets isn’t a good reason to support Trump.

        Yeah, that’s different.

        If a Republican’s bastardized idea of capitalism and free trade is no better than Democratic hostility to those things, then ObamaCare must not be worse than what we had before it.

    2. Each election is worse than the last.

      1. It was easier when the bad guys were communists.

        We could define ourselves and our candidates against that.

        Now support for capitalism requires true believers.

        You have to come to it of your own will–rather than just because it’s our enemies’ opposite.

        “If being capitalist is wrong, I don’t want to be right” is a lot easier than “I want the responsibility for solving my own problems”.

      2. Faith in government is going to have to bottom out before people embrace freedom.

        We’re about to have an election to choose our supreme leader, who ostensibly represents all of us best.

        And that choice will most likely be either Hillary Clinton, or Donald Trump.

        Down we go.

  4. I will never forgive Trump for the unpardonable sin he committed upon me. I was a child in 84′ eagerly awaiting for another year of Showboats football. This fucker, knowing zero about the football business, decided to compete directly and sue the NFL. Had the sticker on my door for years “86 fall is boats ball”.

    1. Well, they say he’s worse than Hitler.

      1. Hitler had the 1936 Olympics.

        1. They did run on time and budget,so,he had that going for him.

          1. Which is funny, because Hitler had no affinity for the Olympics, was against hosting them, & had to be dragged to the games themselves.

            But yeah, I too had high hopes for the USFL. In the early years of American football, the game was played fall & spring (and a little in the winter in places where winters weren’t so bad). Baseball had a longer season too; before football, Thanksgiving day was the traditional end of the scheduled baseball season. There are some minor men’s, women’s, & children’s leagues playing football in the spring, no reason there shouldn’t be a major league too.

            1. Baseball has never had a season last to Turkey Day. Even with expanded playoffs it’s only gone a day or two into November a couple times and once was 2001 when the didn’t play for a week after 9/ 11.Baseball used to finish even earlier with a 154 game schedule (now 162) and there were no playoffs, just a World Series, so they were done by mid October.

              The modern NFL and college football have always started in early september though the seasons have lengthened with a 16 game NFL schedule and expanded playoffs. When I was a kid there were less than 10 bowl games and most college teams were done before Turkey Day. The Arena Football league plays spring/summer and I imagine there are also some spring rec/flag or other amateur play but the NFL has always been in the fall.

  5. Tequila? A Mexican spirit? Is bourbon, an American spirit, not good enough for you? Why do you hate America? If you don’t like it here, you can just get out!

    1. We should deport all this tequilla and make Mexico pay for it.

      1. Deport all tequilla and latin women to mi casa.

        1. I’m coming over.

        2. How big is your casa?I have needs.

    2. I’m of Irish blood and prefer scotch and Samuel Smith.Well,some Welsh.

      1. Being of hillbilly descent I grew up on Bourbon. Took me a while to acquire a taate for Scotch. I think that’s because the first time I had it was Cutty Sark which did not stay with me long. Having it with some big Thanksgiving meal I’m sure didn’t help.

        1. I never liked bourbon.Now gin with a spay of vermouth and 3 olives in the summer,heaven,The salt adds something.

          1. I like Gin. I just found out there is a place called Spirit Works in CA that is now making Sloe Gin from real Sloe berries. I would love to try it but unfortunately it’s not available where I’m at and I don’t want to try it so bad as to pay $20 shipping.

            1. I like to take mix tonic water and gin with a lime wedge and an olive.Yummy. Tanqueray is good, and I don’t mind just substituting that with Tito’s vodka at times. Different taste, but just as good.

              1. I never water my gin or scotch.Just my taste.

                1. I’ll usually put my whiskey on lots of ice. Just a bit of that melt takes the edge off a little.

          2. I hate the taste of bourbon, but if you like it, you should try gamma butyrolactone diluted in water. It tastes like bourbon, and gives you a liquor-like “high” absent most of the bad stuff about a liquor “high”. GBL is a minor constituent of some wines, is used as a flavoring & solvent, and equilibrates rapidly in the body with the linear form, gamma hydroxybutyrate (GHB).

            1. Is it illegal yet?

              1. GHB? Yes, under the brand name “Xyrem”.

              1. “Warning!!! Gamma-butyrolactone is very dangerous and fatal if swallowed.”

                Make mine a double.

      2. Jews have defected to cannabis – if my congregation is any indication.

        1. Defected?

          The campus dealer is always a Jew. Always.

        2. My neighborhood is about 80% Jewish and I don’t know anything about these folks, at all, other than they really like black clothing.

          1. Lubavitch.

            The Rabbi and my kids’ school is from Baltimore.

        3. Whoa, which shul is that? I might return to the faith.

    3. Doesn’t Tequila drinking more or less amount to cultural appropriation?

      1. So does banging Epi’s mom and yet we all do it.

        1. I believe she’s too for Old Man with Candy.Me,I’d rather drink and watch.That would prepare me for the cluster fuck of this election,

  6. Good outcome? Yes. Rand Paul President with Sanders in charge of descheduling pot. Sander can do the research to provide the rationale.

    1. I think he meant a realistically possible outcome.

    2. Sanders would nationalize pot and place high taxes on it so the black market would thrive.Or,you could stand in line.He could cause a sand shortage in the Sahara.

      1. That is why Rand should be President.

  7. “The one argument for libertarians to vote Republican that still remains is the Supreme Court. Other than that, I really can’t see very much endearing for a libertarian in these Republican candidates”.

    And is there any reason to think Donald Trump will make a nomination on Second Amendment principles–or any other principles near and dear to the hearts of libertarians?

    If Trump wins the nomination, seems to me that the only argument left is that Hillary’s appointments would be worse–not that the Republican would make appointments to save the Constitution.

    1. And don’t forget his libel law wish.

    2. There’s probably a 50/50 chance that Trump will do something good. Who knows what this guy will do? Hillary otoh, will 100% probability do the worst possible thing in every possible situation. The chances of her doing one thing good is about the same chance you will be hit with a meteor today. Well, no, it’s much less than that.

      The only good thing that can come out of Hillary being POTUS is that there will be 2 more cycles of the GOP eviscerating the Dems in congress and in states. But to use Hillary’s most famous words, at that point why does it matter? She’ll stack the courts and everywhere else with the worst possible cronies and crooks and she’s already stated publicly that she’ll go way beyond what Obama has on executive actions.

    3. The upside for a Trump nominee is that he might nominate a raccoon or Voltron or something.

      1. He’ll nominate whoever he thinks will piss off the media the most. And it will work.

        1. Well a judge that actually supports the constitution would certainly piss them off. Hey this might not end so badly.

          1. He should nominate Gary Johnson, lol, that would send them to a padded cell in a white coat with restrained arm movement.

        2. why does anyone fall for the Trump vs. Media schtick ? Trump gets 24/7 free coverage . That is what he wants . He wants his brand TRUMP in everyone’s face all the time . And in return for daily Trumpisms (today the Donald reaffirmed that he has a YUUGE , but not too big , penis” they are delighted to give away the coverage and ignore all other candidates or actual reporting about Trumps history, policies or behavior .

    4. See https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions , and I think you’ll be surprised & pleased.

      1. He’s missing a couple of key issues, especially foreign policy. What I’ve heard out of him though on foreign policy is less awful than the other candidates.

      2. Pleased that he’s proving himself to be a typical lying scumbag of a politician?

        Here’s what Trump said on p.102 of his book The America We Deserve on guns:
        “I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun.”

        But, amazingly, now that he’s running for the Republican nomination instead of talking about running on the Reform ticket, his views have changed to what Republican primary voters want to hear.

        Just like his views on abortion, which have flipped from “I support a woman’s right to choose,” (page 31) to pro-life.

        Just like his views on health care, which have flopped from “We must have universal healthcare,” (page 206) to that mishmash of nonsense on the site you linked.

        Donald Trump will tell you anything to get your vote, just like any other politician. It doesn’t tell you shit about how he’ll govern.

        1. It’s possible his views have just changed. Wouldn’t be the first. But I think it’s more likely he’s dishonest. IMO is not even that I think he’s saying A but really believes B. I don’t think he particularly believes A or B and likely hasn’t put much thought into it. If he got elected I really don’t know what he would do.

  8. The least enjoyable part about reading reason over the last several months has been watching optimism turn first into disbelief and then despair. From “libertarian moment!” to “WTF just happened?”

    The best part about being libertarian(ish) is that we get to enjoy our vices without guilt.

    1. I don’t have as much despair as team players. I’m to the point where I tell people not to complain about it anymore.

      The best part about being libertarian is that I’m smarter than other people and I have an exit strategy, should the need ever come.

      1. So,you can plow a field all day long? Catch catfish from dusk till dawn? Make your own whiskey and your own smoke too?

        1. If there’s a version of that in Spanish, yes.

          1. You also need a shotgun a rifle and a 4wd.

          2. Have you read the book “The Getaway”? (not the movie)

              1. Dune.

              2. Like comics without the pictures.

                Anyway, the ending is…. thought provoking.

            1. Read it a couple of years ago. The ending was great. Purposely never watched the movie.

      2. Yeah? Where you going to go California boy? Oregon?

        1. You’re off by 180 degrees.

          1. You have a strategy on dealing with the cartel and gangs? They’re not just drug dealers.

            1. There are no cartels on the baja peninsula. It’s one of the safest places in the world.

              1. That’s good.

                  1. Beautiful

                  2. You better make your move before Trump builds his wall.

      3. I’m smarter than other people and I have an exit strategy

        Of course, but what if there’s politics after death?

    1. We need at least a couple bets going over this.

      1. Which lefty media outlet will shit on her first

      2. Will this increase or decrease the Reagan comparisons

      1. Salon undoubtedly: “Why Nancy Reagan’s Legacy is Inextricably Tied to Her Husband’s Anti-Union, Trickle-Down Nightmare”

        And I suspect Vox follows up with something about her weird astrologer fixation.

    2. I thought she died 20 years ago.

      1. No shit, I would have lost big if someone had bet me she was still alive yesterday.

    3. Any comment from Abe Vigoda?

      1. Lou Reed was extatic, I’m told. Paul Kantner cheered. According to third hand reports.

  9. Thank god the Canklocracy has ended!

  10. RIP Bud Collins. Not so much for the Canklequeen.

  11. I didn’t realize how awesome Thomas Massie is. Good job, Kentucky.

  12. Trump on prohibition:

    The New Hampshire drug epidemic must stop. If elected POTUS ? I will create borders and the drugs will stop pouring in. We will ?#?MakeAmericaGreatAgain?!

    https://www.donaldjtrump.com/issues/

    1. OTOH there is this:

      Live Free or Die: A motto for the whole country to follow.

    2. Looking at Donald Trump’s “statements on the issues” for policy insight is like expecting a Balloon-Animal-twisting-Clown to provide a lecture on Zoology.

      He’d promise to make midgets taller if they voted in significant numbers. If the drug addicts were better organized, he’d be offering a Federal Free Heroin program. “We’ve got all this smack in Afghanistan doing nothing for anyone. Obama just wasted it all.”

      The only predictive thing you should rely on with candidates is ‘character’. Trump will do whatever Trump thinks helps Trump at the moment.

      1. The only predictive thing you should rely on with candidates is ‘character’. Trump will do whatever Trump thinks helps Trump at the moment.

        You mean if I vote for Trump I will get a politician?

        Damn.

        1. while that statement applies to all politicians, i think the point re: ‘character’ is something that provides a subtle qualifier.

          While all will act in primarily self-interested ways (and who doesn’t?), their M.O. will differ.

          Cruz is definitely more of an ideological prima-donna than Trump and will try and force *his ideas* through without compromising or having to convince others of the merits. Which may be good, or not.

          Trump is a salesman who doesn’t really care what he’s selling as long as it looks good to the public and he can claim that it was what he wanted after the fact. “Close the deal”, details be damned.

          Hillary is a craven sociopath control freak who will do whatever she thinks will hurt her “enemies”, and allows her to accumulate more power.

          Those differences of character matter. The bullshit they spew about any given policy during a primary campaign mostly does not.

          1. “Cruz is definitely more of an ideological prima-donna than Trump and will try and force *his ideas* through without compromising or having to convince others of the merits. Which may be good, or not.”

            The reality of Cruz’s past seems to differ from your assertion.

            https://goo.gl/uiP74H

            In his first major leadership role, however, he developed economic policy as the director of the Federal Trade Commission’s Office of Policy Planning.

            At the FTC, Cruz’s agenda could have been written by Milton Friedman.

            Cruz promoted economic liberty and fought government efforts to rig the marketplace in favor of special interests. Most notably, Cruz launched an initiative to study the government’s role in conspiring with established businesses to suppress e-commerce. This initiative ultimately led the U.S. Supreme Court to open up an entire industry to small e-tailers. Based on his early support of disruptive online companies, Cruz has some grounds to call himself the “Uber of American politics.”

            Moreover, and perhaps surprising to some, Cruz sought and secured a broad, bipartisan consensus for his agenda. Almost all of Cruz’s initiatives received unanimous support among both Republicans and Democrats.

            http://goo.gl/o3XTpQ

            Cruz would be one of the better Presidents this country has ever had.

  13. The single thing that has a prayer of getting me to vote R in November? (and even that is touch and go)

    Cruz/Paul

    Barring that…it’s Gay Jay.

    Let it burn itself to the ground. If you look past the destitution that’s coming, the R/D shit-show will at least be entertaining.

  14. Hillary Clinton will be elected. She is our god now… my body is ready.

  15. Ted Cruz will be pretty good. I know that Matt, Nick, and team wouldn’t hang with the man, but it doesn’t matter. He might be the most pro-Liberty major party candidate since Reagan. Far from perfect, sure. The best available, absolutely.

  16. I don’t understand the attitude on Reason that Ted Cruz would be a terrible President. Is he purely libertarian – no. However, at least on domestic policy, he sounds more libertarian to me than any President we’ve had in the last 100 years or so.

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