Hillary Clinton

Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton Fight for Feminist Crown

On the left, the battle over whether Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders is more feminist has gotten surprisingly heated.

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Hillary Clinton/Instagram

One would be the first woman to get the Democratic presidential nomination and, if successful, go on to become the first female president of the United States. The other is an old, white man. Yet the question of who's more of a feminist, Hillary Clinton or Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, has provoked surprisingly impassioned debate and a volatile divide on the left. 

Since the Sanders campaign started, female fans have had to fend off accusations that their support is anti-feminist. Last week, women's rights icon Gloria Steinem even suggested that young women only support Sanders to attract boys, and former secretary of state Madeleine Albright opined to Democratic voters that "there's a special place in hell for women who don't help each other." Meanwhile, Bill Clinton accused "Bernie Bros"—a term that seems to have become a derogatory catchall for Sanders supporters of any gender—of "vicious" and "profane" sexism. Since then, an array of feminists for Bernie have come out swinging, challenging the idea that XX-chromosomes a feminist candidate makes. 

"I can't think of anything less feminist than suggesting that women should vote for a woman because of her gender alone," writes Time Assistant Managing Editor Rana Foroohar. "It's an outdated (and establishment) way of thinking about gender politics."

At The Village Voice, millennial writer Holly Wood puts it more bluntly: She'd "rather go to hell than vote for Hillary." 

Some say supporting Clinton is a radical position, notes feminist socialist Liza Featherstone, but "no one who makes this argument can articulate what, beyond her identity as a woman, qualifies Clinton as a passable candidate for socialist feminists." And while "a Clinton presidency would be symbolically uplifting," it would also preclude the "possibility of genuinely improving the lives of most of the world's women." 

At Jewish newspaper The Forward, Stefanie Iris Weiss declares that she "won't apologize" for supporting Sanders, even it's earned her "a hell of a lot of side eye (and worse) from people that I usually agree with." What Weiss' friends don't understand, she writes, "is that I'm not for Bernie in spite of my feminism–I'm for Bernie because of my feminism."

RoseAnn DeMoro, executive director of America's largest nurse's union, concurs, proclaiming that she will "vote for the best feminist for president: Bernie Sanders." Clinton's camp "doesn't get to define for us the appropriate way to live up to our feminist ideals," DeMoro writes. 

Feminist fans of Clinton, however, haven't taken this apostasy quietly. "Yes, millennials, Hillary Clinton is a feminist," lectures Los Angeles Times columnist Meghan Daum. "Clinton's record on women's rights is about as solid as it gets." 

"I've always admired Sanders, but I happen to think he has more than a tin-ear on gender," feminist politcal analyst Joan Walsh wrote last week

At New York magazine, Annie Lowrey makes the case that Clinton "is still a revolutionary candidate," even if her supporters have mangled the message with too much gender and generational warfare. 

And at pop culture site Pajiba.com, Courtney Enlow writes in a largely all-caps post: "I'M NOT SAYING THERE AREN'T REASONS SOMEONE SHOULD DISLIKE HILLARY OR PREFER BERNIE. THAT IS FINE. THAT IS YOUR JOURNEY. BUT LET'S NOT PRETEND FOR A SECOND THAT THERE WOULD BE *THIS MANY* ISSUES WITH HILLARY IF SHE WAS A GODDAMN MAN." 

The New Hampshire primary results could prove interesting for the Clinton/Sanders gender gap. While millennial women tend to break for Bernie—in Iowa, he outpaced Clinton among young women six to one, and a recent USA Today/Rock the Vote poll had him leading by 20 percentage points with the cohort—in most places Clinton still leads with women overall. But not so in New Hampshire, where not only has Sanders polled better overall going into the primary but also leads among Democratic women 50 percent to 46 percent.

As far as media cycles go, we seem to be in the midst of the kind of backlash to the backlash to the backlash that leaves all sides here asking, can't we get along? "Both Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton are feminists," writes Hillary E. Crawford today at Bustle. "Instead of pitting feminists who support Clinton against feminists who support Sanders, female icons should be encouraging women to find common ground." 

And on The Cut today, Ann Friedman implores the chattering classes to stop it with the narrative that feminist fans of Clinton and Sanders are in the midst of some grand, generational battle for the movement's soul. 

"When narratives pit women against each other in such a direct and obvious way, that usually means it's time to start asking deeper questions," writes Friedman. "Why do we care what two 80-year-old women think of young women's feminism? Why aren't we asking young women which candidate they're supporting and why? Why aren't interviewers asking older women why their contemporaries aren't exactly raging for Hillary either? Women young and old still experience sexism, and they want to end it. The difference is that some women see electing Clinton as part of how to end it, and others do not."

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  1. I initially read the headline as: “Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton Fight for Feminist CLOWN”.

      1. I’m scared of clowns, but yeah I’d watch it also.

      2. I would definitely watch that. Words, especially in names and titles, should never be twisted to stir up controversy. We need to have very clear lines in our society, especially when them there feminists are struggling to define their identity. In this regard, they have done well to support our efforts to get rid of some of that inappropriately deadpan “parody” in New York. Heck, even if they don’t support our efforts, they should remain scrupulously silent, because if they make a wrong move someone will start calling them radicals. We’ve gone far beyond the days of devious bra-burning in this great nation, and let’s keep it that way. See the documentation of America’s leading criminal “satire” case at:

        http://raphaelgolbtrial.wordpress.com/

    1. Same here.

    2. Ah, man… I saw a girl on campus today with a horrible dye job… unless she was into McDonald’s fetish play. If that was the case, she nailed it.

      1. Did the carpet match the drapes?

        1. Sometimes you have to thank Allah for the Sharia dress code that winter imposes.

          1. At the very least you could tell us whether she smelled like a greasy Big Mac wrapper with the pickle chip wadded up inside.

            1. Two all beef Patties, special sauce…
              I’ll go throw up now.

            2. “Every time she coughed, another Chicken McNugget fell out.”

              1. *doubles up, clutches stomach*

      2. McDonald’s fetish play

        Sigh.

        [unzip]

        1. I’d be her hamburgler!

          1. I guess i shouldn’t be surprised that YOU’RE down with the Clown.

    3. “Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton Fight for Feminist CLOWN”.

      Lena Dunham is really popular with some people.

      1. A candy-colored clown they call The Fat Girl
        Stumbles into my room every night
        Just to sprinkle cake flour and to mumble
        “Just shut up and eat. Everything is all right.”

    4. oh, there’s undoubtedly a lot of clowns involved

    5. +1 cherry nose

    6. If Nothing else, I’ve now learned that I will never visit the website Pajiba.com

      Not that I was planning to before reading the article

    7. Of course any democrat will win the Feminist Crown over ANY republican.

      The GOP hasn’t won the female vote in a presidential election since 1988.

      You can thank the evangelical/catholic/religious right/born again contingent for their never ending War on Women for that.

      They would rather hand over our capitalist society to the socialists than allow women to live their own lives.

  2. They’ll all burn in Hell.
    And rightfully so.

    1. Huh. Would a “special place in feminist hell for women” be gender-segregated; if not, would these female heathens serve men; wouldn’t that reward men?

  3. Maybe I should ask a Bernie supporter: “You can’t deny that some people support Bernie just because of misogyny and they are afraid to see a women succeed?”. When they go bat shit crazy, I’ll say now they know how gamers feel.

    I’m sure self-awareness will cause them to reflect on that. No wait… nevermind. Principals not principles

    1. “Help me pout here. I want to be a feminist ally, but I’m not clear on one thing. Should I be believing every rape accusation until it is definitively disproved, and demanding that the accused suffer consequences, or should I be supporting Hillary Clinton?”

      1. Help me pout here. I want to be a feminist ally

        Totally unintentional, I swear.

        1. That’s a high quality johno.

        2. I didn’t see any error there.

  4. RoseAnn DeMoro, executive director of America’s largest nurse’s union, concurs, proclaiming that she will “vote for the best feminist for president: Bernie Sanders.”

    The put in more Super PAC money behind him than anyone did behind Hillary and they EXPECT something for their bribe contribution.

  5. “Some say supporting Clinton is a radical position, notes feminist socialist Liza Featherstone, but “no one who makes this argument can articulate what, beyond her identity as a woman, qualifies Clinton as a passable candidate for socialist feminists.” And while “a Clinton presidency would be symbolically uplifting,” it would also preclude the “possibility of genuinely improving the lives of most of the world’s women.” ”

    How is Bernie going to improve the lives of most of the world’s women if he’s running for president of one country where women already enjoy very high living standards?

    Is his socialism magic going to make the Saudis let women drive?

    1. He’s probably going to want to bomb fewer of the world’s women. I’d say he’s actually probably pretty far ahead by this metric.

      1. This is a valid point.

        The US isn’t bombing most of the world’s women though, so the point stands.

        1. If just for equality, the US should bomb more women. There. The feminist case for Hillary.

    2. Some say supporting Clinton is a radical position,

      I doubt one single human being has ever said this and meant it.

    3. If Clinton is still in the race come the primaries, and that’s a big “IF” at this point, I suspect that Sanders will do far better than predicted by the polls. Many women who are publicly “all in for Hillary” will have second thoughts when in the booth. Now, those women will probably not be enough to deny Clinton the nomination, but it will make for some more Clintonista butt-hurt and some more concessions in the platform.

      1. Uh, Tonio, NH is today…

        1. Yeah, I know. But they’re a small state.

  6. Battle Royale? Yes? YES? PLEASE?

    1. I prefer oil wrestling.

      1. “You will now be redirected to the Hell known as SugarFree slashfic. Please wait.”

      2. I prefer kept promises. Donation?

        1. Tonio, note Tolkeinesque, Dwarvish play on name…. 🙂

          1. *Garrows Naze*

    2. Battle Royale was a fun movie. Also “would” all the girls and half the boys.

  7. “And at pop culture site Pajiba.com, Courtney Enlow writes in a largely all-caps post: “I’M NOT SAYING THERE AREN’T REASONS SOMEONE SHOULD DISLIKE HILLARY OR PREFER BERNIE. THAT IS FINE. THAT IS YOUR JOURNEY. BUT LET’S NOT PRETEND FOR A SECOND THAT THERE WOULD BE *THIS MANY* ISSUES WITH HILLARY IF SHE WAS A GODDAMN MAN.” ”

    This person needs to be in some kind of insane asylum.

    1. Oh my God, the headline of that post is “An All Caps Explosion of Feelings Regarding the Liberal Backlash Against Hillary Clinton.”

      I have never hated a human being as much as I hate this woman. She’s like a more annoying Hitler.

      1. I don’t know, Hitler was pretty annoying. He was a serial farter. Seriously.

      2. Hitler would at least yell with some style.

    2. Wait a second, is Enlow saying that Hillary is a terrible candidate because she’s a woman? BAD.

      1. No, her piece is a rant at Liberal anti-hillary elements. She thinks everyone needs to sacrifice their policy-preferences and character judgement for the sake of Womanhood and Symbolism

        1. One Vagina to Rule Them All.

          1. IRON VAGINA 2016

              1. We’ll see whose junk breaks first.

        2. Most liberal chicks dreamt of having sex with Slick Willie, but I suspect Lizzie dreams of hot three way strap-on action with Hillary and Huma.

          1. Thanks. Now I need to figure how to gouge out my mind’s eye

    3. I sort of like all caps. It’s a good way to signal to the reader the mental capacity of the writer.

      Also, yes we know how men are treated when they negligently leak state secrets. Just as presidential candidate General Petraeus.

  8. From the New York Magazine article:

    Her vision of Hillary Clinton was that of Hillary Clinton: Revolutionary. It was a vision of a talented woman finally succeeding where none before had been able to, overcoming a lifetime of obstacles to take a job she deserves. It was a vision that Clinton promoted all weekend. But it was one that got horribly and unnecessarily twisted up in generational and gender politics, courtesy of Clinton’s surrogates.

    So the argument here is that Hillary is…an Establishment politician but with a vagina? Also it’s her turn I guess?

    1. Don’t you see how revolutionary it is to become part of the establishment, Hugh?

      1. Especially riding hubby’s career like some pilot fish accompanying a shark to get there. Never been done ’till now.

        1. More like a shark accompanying a pilot fish really…

    2. It was a vision of a talented woman

      Assumes facts not in evidence.

      finally succeeding where none before had been able to

      She was, what the second female SecState? And a long way from the first female Senator. Exactly what has she done that no woman had done before?

      overcoming a lifetime of obstacles to take a job she deserves.

      Yeah, nothing says “lifetime of obstacles” like upper-middle class white girl in Chicago, Ivy League degree, practicing lawyer, and riding her husband’s coattails to a position of great wealth and influence.

      1. eah, nothing says “lifetime of obstacles” like upper-middle class white girl in Chicago, Ivy League degree, practicing lawyer, and riding her husband’s coattails to a position of great wealth and influence.

        What’s wrong with you man? She was born a poor black child!

  9. “”THAT IS YOUR JOURNEY””

    Its sort of emblematic of modern day feminist-posing to combine “Faux-Shouting” with this sort of thin-pap, passive-aggressive meaningless expression

    its entirely self-defeating. Why bother being “very loud” if the actual substance of what you’re saying is such meatless, calorie-free drivel?

    Its just like Sooey’s “I’m not going to enact that labor for you”… it reveals that person lacks the guts to simply say, “Go fuck yourself”. Or just “No*”.

    (*i’m thinking of that Oberlin prof’s great retort to the belabored demand that all students be given special dispensation to cope with the trauma of the Ferguson riots)

    it seems similar to the way so many young women will pepper casual conversation with “fucks”. its like a ‘fuel additive’ to add some emotional vigor to otherwise bland, cliche ideas.

    On the actual subject of the piece =

    i think its telling that so many want to pretend there’s *Not* a “generational battle” going on. and that so many dance around the fact that “progressives” aren’t a majority… and that progressive politics aren’t as ascendant in America as in the internet-babble might have you believe

    1. and that progressive politics aren’t as ascendant in America as in the internet-babble might have you believe

      The problem for Hillary, though, is that such politics are that ascendant among D primary voters.

      1. Yes, absolutely. Just not enough to actually *win*, which makes for a very-troubling reality. They will serve to weaken an already weak hillary in a general election where they can’t afford any more problems.

      2. The problem for Hillary, though, is that such politics are that ascendant among D primary voters.

        I think Hillary existence by nature spawns other choices, almost organically, in anything competitive she’s in. O’Malley was just low-budget version of Hillary really, so he didn’t catch on. Bernie’s authentic and weird, and there’s nobody else – so Bernie. The root of his success is not ideology, but his competition.

    2. “(*i’m thinking of that Oberlin prof’s great retort to the belabored demand that all students be given special dispensation to cope with the trauma of the Ferguson riots)”

      This man is still an American hero.

  10. Me when I started reading the article: “This ought to be rather entertaining to read what the feminist left is disagreeing with each other about. Could be a stimulating, philosophical debate!”

    Me halfway through: “These womenz are making my head hurt. I think i am turning stupider”

    Me after reading: “OOH boogers! Tasty!”

    1. C’mon, big guy, walk it off.

      1. I say we put him in the concussion protocol.

  11. Some say supporting Clinton is a radical position, notes feminist socialist Liza Featherstone, but “no one who makes this argument can articulate what, beyond her identity as a woman, qualifies Clinton as a passable candidate for socialist feminists.”

    I dunno, I’m guessing there’s going to have to be some consensus on whether feminism is about issues related to the female shared experience, or progressivism in the larger context.

    Since feminism somehow got associated with progressivism in the larger context some time way back before I was even much politically aware, I’m guessing Bernie might win the day on this subject.

  12. Some say supporting Clinton is a radical position, notes feminist socialist Liza Featherstone, but “no one who makes this argument can articulate what, beyond her identity as a woman, qualifies Clinton as a passable candidate for socialist feminists.”

    If I was Ted Cruz, I think I would pepper every ad with this quote. I mean these women really have no self-awareness.

    1. Is Ted Cruz trying to get the socialist feminist vote?

      1. This may be related the theory that Ted Cruz would do better against pants-on-his-head candidate as opposed to Hillary in the general.

        1. That’s fair. Any R will do better against Bernie, but Hillary is going to win. The South and super delegates will easily secure her victory.

    2. I don’t get it.

    3. Just to be clear, even though this idiot isn’t supporting Clinton, just the fact that there is an argument to try to win support from “socialist feminists” should be enough.

      1. Yeah, I mean, why would she try to get the support of her own party?

    4. “If I was Ted Cruz, I think I would pepper every ad with this quote’

      I’m not sure why. The writer is saying that Clinton isn’t “Socialist-Feminist”-ENOUGH

      All cruz would be saying is that Hillary is “far more normal” than the lefties would prefer. Which isn’t the best pitch to the large swath of independent voters who vacillate between “identity politics” and “think a change might be good”

      1. Upon further review, the ruling on the field is overturned. After thinking about this quote, I guess you folks are right. At first it just sounded so “out-there”, but yeah it does make it sound like Hilary is in the mainstream.

        Fair enough.

        Nikki, you are still the worst though 😉

  13. Pro-tip for people who like politics as entertainment: watch some MSNBC. The bloodbath Sunday and Monday was the greatest thing ever. All of a sudden yesterday after David Axelrod’s tweet yesterday they were all racing to see who could throw Hillary under a bus faster and harder. Bonus for libertarians, the ones who do boost Hillary are uniformly using Republican anti-Bernie talking points to do so. If you ever wanted to see Democrats disavowing socialism, you have your chance.

    1. All of a sudden yesterday after David Axelrod’s tweet yesterday they were all racing to see who could throw Hillary under a bus faster and harder.

      you talking about the ‘maybe it’s you’ tweet?

      Bonus for libertarians, the ones who do boost Hillary are uniformly using Republican anti-Bernie talking points to do so. If you ever wanted to see Democrats disavowing socialism, you have your chance.

      That’s interesting. Because the very short snippets I’ve been getting while I’m trying to not pay attention are that Hillary is every bit as progressive as Bernie, we just haven’t had a chance to experience Full Hillary.

      1. Yes, that’s the tweet.

        I watched a whole panel the other night talk about how Bernie couldn’t claim the “progressive” mantel because he was too far left. It was joyous. Last night they were all going on about how Bernie was just promising everyone “free stuff he couldn’t pay for.” That’s a direct quote. It was amazing.

        1. Sounds like panic is setting in.

          1. Whoever wins the nomination, the loser’s supporters are going to be angry and feel that they were robbed. This is going to be a blood bath.

            1. [My 3:09 was in response to Paul at 2:48. The intervening post wasn’t there while I was composing.]

              1. Tonio, I feel your pain – almost every day on this site I have something like that happen…

        2. So you can be too far left to be a Prog. That is going to be news to a lot of people.

          1. I’m telling you, it was a sight to see.

        3. A lot of people just hear
          Bernie was .. promising everyone “free stuff ..

      2. “the very short snippets I’ve been getting while I’m trying to not pay attention are that Hillary is every bit as progressive as Bernie’

        Yeah, most of what i’ve been seeing in the media are writers trying to make the case that Hillary can deliver the goods and be Obama 2.0 even better than bernie can, and that she’s the *real* progressive

        If there’s any clips of Hillary supporters saying, “Redistribution of wealth *doesn’t actually work*” or “Private Industry is not the enemy!” or something like that…. i’d be truly gobsmacked.

  14. May I just say how intensely delicious it is to witness the SJWs eating each other alive about this? The snake of sanctimonious leftist moralizing strangles on its own tail. More please.

    1. SJWs aren’t eating each other alive. Sanders supporters aren’t SJWs. That’s the point. SJWs just got told they weren’t the real left, and they don’t like it.

      1. Sanders supporters aren’t SJWs.

        Gonna have to disagree with your police-work there… Maybe it’s a regional thing but Sanders has a lock here in SJW central.

        1. Bernie’s socialism is not identitarian and the squabble here is being termed explicitly as one about whether to support class-based socialism or the kind of identity politics that those leftists consider neoliberal. One particular spat revolves around Ta-Nehisi Coates; here’s the anti-Coates side of things.

          Also do a twitter search for “Marxsplaining.”

          1. Perhaps not. But his supporters are perfectly capable of imagining that it is. Nobody said that progs are rational or even understand half the crap they reflexively support. Supporting Sanders is 90% social signalling.

            1. This is something being explicitly argued about in tons of left-of-center publications.

              1. But there is a gulf between the chattering classes who write for those publications and the rank-and-file supporters who merely repeat those talking points. There is also a middle tier of those who understand the arguments and explain them to the rank-and-file but who don’t produce articles.

                1. Yes, but to think that the bottom level even got the earlier SJW memos is probably a mistake.

                  1. Judging by their Facebook and twitter behavior, the bottom tired most definitely did get the sjw memos. They just didn’t get the ones coming from Hillary’s campaign staff.

              2. How many of the Sanders supporters do you think actually read Jacobin? Very few I would guess. Your thinking everyone is a rational intellectual, but they’re not. Almost all of Sanders supporters are just blindly signalling alliegance in the exact same way that the she’s blindly signal pc beliefs about identity politics. The two camps are not meaningfully distinct.

          2. Bernie’s socialism is not identitarian

            I don’t see how that rules out SJW support, myself.

          3. Thanks, Nikki, for wading into the fever swamps and reporting back to us.

            1. #Worstsplaining

          4. Is there “Mansmarxplaing”?

          5. I just waded through that entire Jacobin article. A long read, but interesting.

        2. I’ve seen SJWs in both the Hillary and Bernie camps.

          I have also seen Anti-SJWs in the Bernie camp, though. People passionately for socialism and against identity politics, but not aware enough to see the silliness of holding both those positions.

          I’ve NOT seen any Anti-SJWs in the Hillary camp though. Unless you count all the corporations.

          1. Are there really any meaningful anti-sjw factions on the left? If so I can’t see much evidence of them. It’s all intersectionality now.

            1. See my link to Jacobin above. There are tons of people on the left who are rejecting the significance of intersectionality in politics. They consider intersectional analysis to be a tool of neoliberals.

              1. You’re claiming they don’t think in categories such as black, white, male female, rich and poor? Just how many kinds of classes are they working with?

                1. I don’t know what you mean by “think in categories,” but they argue that the proper framework for politics is traditional Marxism. Intersectional analyses are how capital divides the proletariat.

                  1. Intersectionality is consistent Marxism, less superficial. Categories = groups = classes. Are you saying half of the left is suddenly thinking merely in two categories: capital v proletariat/workers?

                    1. Half? No. And they have more than two, of course. But yes. See the Jacobin link above for an example. This is a longstanding disagreement on the left that has been slow-burning for a while among the US left and is now blowing up.

                    2. So, how many categories do they have? And what’s the principle based on which they establish/accept categories? If this is about efficacy, about avoiding factions, what they’re doing in pitting their X-categories Marxism against the others (X + Y)-categories Marxism doesn’t make sense. It’s a schism that diminishes power.

                      (That link doesn’t work for me right now.)

                    3. Worked for me and not that hard to google.

                    4. I was afraid it wouldn’t work for you, T. Thank god it does.

                    5. Regarding these two categories, have they been able to set the two apart, as in agreeing upon a somewhat clear cut-off point? I doubt that, given the status, resources, privileges (etc.) that many of the left have. We’re not dealing with an aristocratic system, but with a gradual one. By the way, check out “labor aristocracy” and you’ll see the problem (– within national bounds). Cf. internalized X/false consciousness.

          2. You don’t think there are a lot of Bill Maher-style Democrats willing to vote for Hillary because she has “experience”?

      2. Despite her successes, Sawant’s anti-establishment rhetoric hadn’t won her many friends within the local Democratic Party. The Democrats put all of their resources behind Seattle Urban League Director, Pamela Banks, in the City Council election this year for Sawant’s seat. Six of her eight fellow council members endorsed her opponent, and Seattle’ major media outlet, the Seattle Times endorsed Banks as well.

        After election night, the results came in with Sawant taking a clear lead over her opponent. In her victory speech she endorsed Bernie Sanders and was described by the alternative Seattle publication The Stranger, as SuperHero-like; “one could not help but notice that the long yellow scarf she wore looked, at certain angles, very much like a superhero cape.”

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..44650.html

        By the by, this is why I officially stopped voting here. People like me don’t stand a chance in local democratic politics. I’m in full hunker-down mode.

      3. … what’s the going definition for SJW, now?

        1. I’m not going to give you a hard definition, but if you click on my link @ 2:52, that’s a template example.

  15. “One would be the first woman to get the Democratic presidential nomination and, if successful, go on to become the first female president of the United States. The other is an old, white man. “

    Jesus, couldn’t they find a black woman or a transgender Puerto Rican to run or somethin’?

    For what it’s worth, I would have given Hillary Clinton the edge for courageously wearing pantsuits for all those years, but she loses big on the domestic violence front. It isn’t just that she stood by Bill even after he abused his position of power for sexual conquest. It’s also that she reportedly turned violent against Bill. He required stitches after she physically attacked him.

    How can Hillary Clinton be a feminist icon when she’s guilty of domestic violence?

    1. Easy: it isn’t domestic violence when a woman does it. It is just proactive self-defense.

      1. Ohh…so like the invasion of Iraq!

    2. + 1 flying ashtray

    3. “There was blood all over the president and first lady’s bed,” writes former White House reporter Kate Anderson Brower. “A member of the residence staff got a frantic call from the maid who found the mess. Someone needed to come quickly and inspect the damage. The blood was Bill Clinton’s. The president had to get several stitches to his head.”

      . . . .

      Stories circulated after the 1998 fight in the White House that Mrs. Clinton had brained her husband with a lamp in a fury over the revelations of his sexual affair with Miss Lewinsky, a White House intern. But according to the book, White House staff surmised that Mrs. Clinton hit her husband with one of the dozens of books that she kept on her bedside table.”

      http://www.washingtontimes.com…../?page=all

      Domestic violence is still a serious problem in this country. If Hillary were a man who abused his spouse so badly that it drew blood (regardless of the reason), she would be completely disqualified from office–and rightly so. Maybe the Democrats can see clear of that to nominate her anyway, but both feminist icon and purveyor of domestic violence isn’t about to wash with anyone.

      If Hillary apologizes to the American people for being a spouse batterer, we could have a national conversation about domestic violence–and then maybe the healing can begin.

      1. I can assure you that it is an open secret in the Secret Service that Hillary Clinton was a terrifying and awful woman who routinely broke dishes and furniture and physically assaulted Bill. If Bill and Hillary had been Republicans, the media would have had a field day with those stories.

      2. And there were at least twenty books on the bedside table ? including the Bible.

        That’s where the story lurches into the unbelievable.

        1. Not necessarily. IIRC Hillary used to hold some kind of Bible meetings for Dems when she was in the Senate.

          1. Jesus wept. Literally.

            1. Those Latinos can be so emotional sometimes.

          2. What does the Bible say about necromancy again?

    4. Have you read some feminist comments out there about female-on-male domestic violence??

      1. I never read the comments at PornHub.

          1. There are feminist comments?

          2. Most people only visit it for the comments… so I hear.

        1. Then you’re missing out, because a lot of them are unintentionally (I’m guessing, anyway) hilarious

  16. IT IS ABSOLUTELY GUT WRENCHING THAT THIS BADASS, IMPORTANT WOMAN HAS BEEN DIMINSHED AND WRITTEN OFF AND HATED HER WHOLE CAREER, HER WHOLE EXISTENCE AS A PUBLIC FIGURE.

    If the plight of Hillary Clinton wrenches your guts, get some tougher goddamn guts.

  17. LOL, that all-caps post is amazing.

    “THE DAY MY HUSBAND TOLD ME HE LIKED BERNIE, HE SAID, “I mean, how great is it to have a president who just doesn’t even care how his hair looks” AND I EXPLODED “DO YOU THINK THERE EXISTS A WORLD WHERE A WOMAN COULD EVEN CONSIDER THAT?””

    Well, your marriage won’t last long.

    “AND THE MOST MINDBLOWING PART? THIS ISN’T EVEN COMING FROM THE GOP! BECAUSE WHAT I AM SEEING IS THE SAME THING WE SEE WITH OBAMA ONLY ON THE MORE LIBERAL END OF THE SPECTRUM–PEOPLE WHO WOULD NEVER CONSIDER THEMSELVES BIGOTS IN ANYWAY BUT JUST KNOW THERE IS *SOMETHING* THEY DON’T CARE FOR ABOUT THIS PERSON. THEY REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT SOMETHING COULD BE SKIN COLOR OR GENDER BUT FOR VERY MANY OF THEM IT ABSOLUTELY FUCKING IS.”

    So you’re saying your own husband is a misogynist.

    1. Why do you think she married him?

    2. Do these people not remember the Bill Clinton years? He was a southern, white male (who by the way was quite the heterosexual!). And libertarians and conservatives still hated him.

      Do these people think we wouldn’t have been against Obamacare if it was HarryReidCare? Or TomDaschleCare? Or how about JoeBidenCare?(That is funny just thinking about that).

      I mean the fact of the matter is, that to get taken seriously men have to wear a suit and tie, and have trimmed hair (if not combed!), and women have to get their hair done, and wear makeup to some extent.

    3. DO YOU THINK THERE EXISTS A WORLD WHERE A WOMAN COULD EVEN CONSIDER THAT?””

      I seem to recall Hillary going through a “no makeup” phase, where she didn’t do much with her hair, either.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..00423.html

      So, yes.

    4. “AND I EXPLODED “DO YOU THINK THERE EXISTS A WORLD WHERE A WOMAN COULD EVEN CONSIDER THAT?”

      Correct response?

      “Now that we’re on the subject, you need to go on a diet”.

    5. This is off topic but let me give you some entertaining DERP to enjoy.

      http://chronicle.com/article/T…..or/235136/

      This is a very interesting interview with the scientist at VA Tech who blew the whistle on the government poisoning the drinking water in Flint Michigan. He talks a lot about the corruption of science and how scientists in the government lied or covered up the facts. In the comments you get this:

      Kevin Schmidt Wareagle82 ? 4 days ago
      That’s a strawman argument. We have to take into account where the money is coming from. If it is coming from the likes of fossil fuel companies, or Monsanto, or factory farming, then yes, what you say is true.
      But there are other sources of funding where their decision on whether or not to fund a particular research program is based on the capabilities of the research staff only.

      It is just an almost perfect example of Prog derp.

      1. Ha! Is he responding to the same War Eagle that posts here?

  18. It’s the inevitable come-home-to-roost moment for the politics of gender identity, and it is delicious.

    1. In my opinion Bernie should do an 11th hour ‘re-identify’ as a woman and blow…everyone’s… mind…

      1. That actually makes sense, visually. He could do a Jeffrey Tambor.

      2. Sigh.

        [unzip]

        1. Jeez, that is your answer to everything, X!

          1. I HAVE NEEDS, SWISS.

      3. BEST. SUGGESTION. EVER!

        *kowtows toward Diane-Paul*

  19. “BUT LET’S NOT PRETEND FOR A SECOND THAT THERE WOULD BE *THIS MANY* ISSUES WITH HILLARY IF SHE WAS A GODDAMN MAN.”

    Correct. There would be more. Because no one would be blinded by the vagina and people would actually care about more of her issues.

    1. Sorry, EBS. She said “man” (or, I suppose, “MAN”), not Republican.

      1. I’m not sure I agree fully. I’m certain people would care about things like her emails if she was a man and there was another candidate running Democrat with a viable minority/oppressed group status.

        If she was just a white, straight guy standing in the way of a minority, they’d throw her under the bus Democrat or not.

        I’m not sure whether or not atheist and Jew is enough of minority status for them to throw Man-Hillary away in favor of Sanders. Jews are either white or not depending on the random day of the week, and I’m not sure how much oppression cred atheism gets you these days. If Sanders was, say, also a queer Mongolian, and Clinton was a Man, then the democrats would pull out all the stops to destroy Clinton.

    2. That’s just a myth spread by Bernie supporters. Hillary’s vagina doesn’t actually blind you like the Dilophosaurus in Jurassic Park, though prolonged exposure will cause disorientation and nausea.

      1. You turn to stone if you gaze upon it. And her pubes are a writhing mass of serpents.

        1. Hey, that’s Sug’s territory.

  20. It’s interesting that identity politics are causing the left to eat its own with the Bernie/Hillary issue, but it never flared up to the same degree when it was Obama/Clinton.

    Does racism trump sexism in identity politics?

    1. I think Obama swamped Clinton too fast, and let’s face it, Clinton and/or her camp bitching about The Black Man is a non-fucking-starter. I think Clinton realized that she was just going to have to sit out the next 8 years and use that time sharpen her knives.

      1. So if Bernie was black how would this play out?

        1. Do you guys not remember that the Clintons did use racism to try to beat Obama, and it blew up in their faces?

          1. I actually forgot that, but my point still stands– it was a non-starter for them.

          2. I remember that, which I guess answers my question that racism trumps sexism in identity politics as far as democratic primaries go.

            But that was Bill being an idiot and saying “A few years ago, this guy would have been getting us coffee,” which as far as racism goes seems like weak tea. It wasn’t Hillary arguing she should be president because she’s a woman. And Obama never really argued that he should be president because he’s black, he had everyone else do that for him.

            1. And Obama never really argued that he should be president because he’s black, he had everyone else do that for him.

              This is the whole point. The Obama campaign used race in just the right way. Hillary’s campaign has terrible judgment on this front.

              1. Do they have great judgement on any front? Or is Hillary so terrible of a candidate that it simply makes it appear as if they don’t?

            2. Wasn’t Hillary the one who started the birther issue?

              1. That seems to be the case, though these things are very hard to pin down later.

              2. Most likely, although they blamed (and fired) a staffer for it and claimed the campaign itself had nothing to do with it. Plausible deniability and all.

        2. Uh, awesomely in my opinion. If Bernie was black, this country would be looking forward to eight more years of Barack Obama Plus P. Bernie already represents the this-time-we-mean-it vote, certainly for the millennials and inb’tweeners who voted for Obama the first time.

  21. As goes Joan Walsh, so goes Crusty.

      1. I’d be the national affairs correspondent of her nation, if you know what I mean.

  22. Wait, you thought “social justice” want just code for socialism? Hahaha ha-ha.

  23. Without definitions of “feminism” and “sexism”, it’s unclear who is better at feminism and sexism, respectively. Nor is it clear whether “women” want feminism or sexism to go away.

  24. “Instead of pitting feminists who support Clinton against feminists who support Sanders, female icons should be encouraging women to find common ground.”

    When you are going to have to choose one, and only one, to vote for, where is the common ground, again?

    1. I’m guessing it’s where you vote for the candidate who has the best chance, then pressure him/her/hx using your non-profits and political action committees and what not.

    2. Very much the essential question. What’s the common ground of feminism? Is it the common ground of women (whatever that is)?

  25. Feminist crown, huh? How many BK Kid’s Club crowns is that worth, exactly?

  26. It is striking that after so many years, so much money and organization, the Clintonites and their “feminist” shills cannot really come up with any good feminist reason to back her besides “she’s a woman and would not be treated this way if she was a man!” (without any evidence to back this up) and “her feminist record speaks for itself!” (I’m unaware of any “record” she has of accomplishments of any time, let alone specifically feminist accomplishments–certainly none to distinguish her from Sanders).

    Face it–their candidate is lousy. They’re trying desperately to beat an aged socialist, for crying out loud!

  27. By the way, is Sanders actually fighting for the feminist “crown”, or is it simply that some (obscure figures) are fighting over whether it’s his?

  28. Feminists for Hillary, ha! The only reason she’s gotten substantial support is that a lot of people assume that Bill will be calling the shots. Seriously, why else would she have been in contention at all?

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